Is it your wish to represent yourself? Sir, >> Mr. Mr. Dorton is aware of the courtroom, the quorum and the the standards and procedures that must be upheld by a person in representation of of a party. And as again I I I shoulders I am aware that I I do have constitutional rights, not just the ones that were mentioned here before. And also that the exercising of a right is is also an expression of a right, which is an invoking of a right, which is a way that a right can be used. and to and to forgive me and to uphold the proper standards. I do Mr. Thornton does not wish to get public council representation for as I am a legal representation by by special appearance through the executive office for Mr. Thornton. >> Welcome back guys to your favorite YouTube channel where no one is above the law. Today we have one of your favorite sovereign citizens from here on the channel back in [music] court by the name of Mr. Shoulders. If you haven't seen the first proceeding, there will be a link in [music] the description. So, you can check that out. You can go and check that out and come back for this one or watch this one and do it in reverse. However you feel the need to do it, you can do so. But if you have seen the first one with Mr. Shoulders, man, this guy uh he has a lot going with him when it comes to a lot of the sovereign citizen lingo and some of the things he believes. Uh for those of you for those of you that saw that first one, excuse [music] me, remember he was requesting $1,000 a day for every single day that he spent in jail. And that's all I'm going to say about that because I don't want to be a spoiler for those that didn't see the first one. But listen, we're here. Part two, proceeding to appearance to whatever you want to call it. Roll the footage. >> Good morning. We are on the record in the matter of people versus Latavas. Trishad Thornton. This is case 25203 FY. May I have appearances for the record, please? Thank you George and on behalf of the people. >> Thank you. And Mr. Thornton, could you state your name for the record, please? >> I am the I am shoulders in here by way of executive office for lead nonprofit organization. >> That is Mr. Thornton announcing his appearance before the court. We are here this morning for a pre-exam conference. Um, Mr. Anid, it is my understanding that Mr. Thornton has declined representation. However, Mr. Thornton, at every appearance, I need to remind you that you have a constitutional right to be represented by an attorney and that if you can't afford an attorney, the court will provide one for you. Um, I am particularly proud of the superb public defenders we have in this court. However, you may also uh retain any attorney you wish. You will get to choose the attorney. You would have to pay them. You have a constitutional right to represent yourself. But I have to warn you that if you proceed representing yourself, you would be held to the same standard as all attorneys who have gone to law school and passed the bar and been admitted to practice. So the court really can't give you any breaks or help you at all. >> Is it your wish to represent yourself, sir? >> Mrs. Mr. Dorton is aware of the courtroom, the quorum and the the standards and procedures that must be upheld by a person in representation [clears throat] of of a party. And as again I I I shoulders I am aware that I I do have constitutional rights, not just the ones that were mentioned here before. And also that the exercising of a right is is also an expression of a right which is an invoking of a right which is a way that a right can be used and to and to forgive me and to uphold the proper standards. I do Mr. Thornton does not wish to get public council representation for as I am a legal representation by by special appearance through the executive office for Mr. Thornton and not the actual entity Lieuton once again on the record. It has not been declined that Lieuton is a nonprofit organization which yes your honor is a person in fact and [clears throat] I the man speaking with a with a voice and >> I'm going to cut this off. I don't want to mute you but we have to move forward. So um we have an attorney standing by. That would be Mr. foreman who is a very very good public defender who is available to you. >> Um at this point, Mr. Anid, this is the time and date set for a pre-exam conference. Have you had an opportunity to speak with Mr. Thornton about any plea offer? >> No, your honor. And I don't think I'll have any meaning full conversations with him based on what I see. Um, I believe that I'm not, it's not clear whether what he's doing is intentional or whether this may be a competency issue. Um, but I'm prepared to proceed. I just don't know if we we should be we should um I have a concern for his uh competency to be honest with you. Um, if the court had the same issue, >> Mr. Thornton, one person at a time and right now Mr. Enid is speaking. I mean I guess I would inquire whether he knows what a preliminary exam is and you know if he understands you forward um if he's going to know what to do. I mean I believe I have to look at the courts. I've never dealt with this issue but I think having standby counsel would be something uh that would be needed um to advise him. I'll look into all that but I just don't know if he's going to know what a preliminary exam is. U I believe this may just be a competency issue. I don't know your honor. >> Okay. So actually that's a good question. So, Mr. Thorson, I'm going to ask you, what is a preliminary exam? >> Well, before I address that, my address is >> sir. No, we're going to we're going to focus our answers here. >> What is a preliminary [clears throat] exam? >> I'm going to give you one chance to answer. What is a preliminary exam? >> A court proceeding. >> Okay. And what happens? That's good answer. What happens at that court proceeding? >> At a preliminary examination court proceeding, the parties have an opportunity to present evidence and cross-examine each other and determine whether a case is whether evidence is admissible to go into to continuing proceedings. whether the court has jurisdictions. All a plethora of matters may be brought up in a prelim preliminary examination to see if the court has a valid standing to see if there's anything if to see what may be addressed that's necessary as far as the parties that are at hand, not only to go about things in one specific fashion. Well, that's that's pretty um that that's a pretty good answer. Um however, at this point given a review of >> I'm the court is going to sue Espante U suggest that a competency exam be ordered. Mr. >> Anid, any response? I agree. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Thornton. Any response? >> Mr. Thornton does not believe that a competency gram ponte is necessary and objects that as as a preliminary exam is something that we can proceed to and and we can address the matters and the situations that are necessary at that time. And due to the due to the due pro due for the sake of due process and the judicial precedence of due process that a a criminal or excuse me a competency test may delay that and it will it could hinder not only Mr. Thornan but the things that Mr. Thornton does as far as a community and his [clears throat] career and his family and his life and rights and other people who are that may be affected by this matter as well as the public because for for the judicial precedence is that Mrs. Thornon is innocent and not guilty. >> Mr. and nid are you going to prepare a proposed order or >> uh your I think it's been a while since I've done I believe is if it's if I'm not mistaken it's the I can I can if you want yes I'll prepare an order >> all right so at this time um Mr. and NID comments preliminary exam. >> Nope. I just say we just um make the preliminary examination to be determined date. If anything, reset it for another PCC or review hearing um for when we do come back with a competency opinion. >> Okay. So, Mr. Thornton, you have a two rights at play here. One is the preliminary exam that we just discussed and the second is the right to have that within 21 days. So the reason that you have a right to have that within 21 days is to prevent cases from dragging on endlessly. There are certain timelines that have to be met. However, the court can wave that 21 days if it finds good cause. And that would be for instance if one side had recently dis received discovery and was unable to proceed. Another good cause could be if someone was ill or hospitalized. Um there could be any number of good reasons. So I'm going to ask you actually Mr. Thornton have you received any discovery in this matter? >> Uh not instrument. >> Okay. So all right two things then. First, I find good cause to wave the 21-day rule and we will date. No, sir. Just a minute. Let me finish. You can't you don't No, listen. I don't want to mute you, but I have to get through this. So, um, you have to have you you have a constitutional right to have knowledge about your case. And if you haven't received any discovery, we can't go forward until you receive it. So, two things. First, I'm going to wave the 21day rule. And just a minute, Mr. going to wave the 21-day rule and we're going to set a date out in about a month. That' be a placeholder date. As soon as we get that date, then we'll go to the discovery issue. So, next up where we're going to adjourn this case to a for just we're going to adjourn this case to a I just lost that chat. to a probable cause conference at 8:30 a.m. on April 25th and a preliminary exam date of 9:00 a.m. May 1st. >> Man, boy did Judge Bapcott [music] put Mr. shoulders on the spot by asking him, "What is a preliminary exam?" And at first, you think [music] he's about to crash out because he starts trying to redirect and argue like he always does, but then he actually answers the question and the judge even tells him it's a pretty good answer. [music] So, we see in that moment, you can see why the prosecutor is confused. Is he being intentional in playing games or is this really a competency issue? Because when the court asks direct question, he can respond. He just chooses to wrap it in the same sovereign citizen style language. [music] But even after giving a decent answer, the judge says she going to she's going to still order that competency exam anyway. And that tells you the court is looking at history, not [music] just at the moment, right? Not just at him answering uh that question correctly. She's really looking at the big bigger picture. And [music] the question is, does this person truly understand the process? Can they assist in their defense? And can [music] this case move forward in a clean way? And basically, that's the thing that she wants to get down to. Um, once again, as we can see, the judge hits another major issue. There's no discovery yet. She explains it plain. If you don't have the discovery, you can't go forward because you have a right to know [music] what you're defending against. That's why she waves that 20-day rule and pushes the dates out. So, this isn't just about Mr. [music] Thornton or Mr. Shoulders talking in circles. This is also about the case not being ready to move forward in a way that's fair [music] and really legally clean. And the judge is basically building a record that shows [music] I gave him time. I protected his rights and I made sure the [music] process is documented. And as a sovereign citizen would say, is this on the record? Yes, it is. >> Now, Mr. Anid, you wanted to be in a breakout room with Mr. Foreman and I'm guessing you want to discuss discovery. So, >> and you judge >> with me or you want to discuss me >> all all three of us really quickly. That's okay. >> Okay. >> How will I >> do that? Okay. Just a moment, Mr. Mr. Thornton. Uh we'll be back in just a moment. Okay. Thank you. >> All right. We are back on the record in the matter of people versus Trashadon. This is case 25203FY. And for a moment uh at Mr. Anid's request, the court Mr. Foreman and Mr. Anid discussed standby counsel. So standby counsel is is something with certain mechanical concerns. So for standby counsel, um the court can't just appoint standby counsel. This is what we discussed in the breakout room. the court or perhaps its funding unit, the city of East Lancing, would have to enter into a contract with with the public defenders office. And um if both sides agreed to that and a certain financial rate, then an attorney from the public defender's [clears throat] office would sit next to Mr. important and be available to advise him during all proceedings there. Back in the day when I was on the courtapp appointed list, a judge could just appoint someone and do it. That doesn't exist anymore because of the MIDC. So, we discussed the mechanics of that. Um, the court is going to make a formal discovery request on behalf of Mr. Thornton. So, Mr. Thornton, you should receive at the jail or if you postp bond um at the address we have on record all of the materials that a defense attorney would receive that the prosecutor has at this point. Mr. Anid would like to speak with Mr. Thornton and um perhaps see if a plea deal is possible. So Mr. Thornton, you never have to accept a plea deal, but it's worth listening for two reasons. First, there may be something there that you can reach an agreement on. You have a constitutional right to have these charges heard in a trial. Sometimes sometimes you can make a bargain, something that it's worth giving up your right for a trial, for instance, a lesser charge, a lighter sentence, or both. The other side is you kind of want to know what the prosecutor's thinking about the case. So, as a defense attorney, I always wanted to hear what the plea offer was. Even if my client was absolutely not going to take it, it gave me some insight into where the prosecutor was interested in going with the case. Again, you were never required to accept plea bargaining. At this point, because you are representing yourself, I'm going to allow you to converse with Mr. recognizing that you do not have discovery materials. So, I do not accept expect this court to accept a plea bargain today. All right, we're going to put you both in a breakout room and when you're done, the court will be ready. Thank you. Okay, sound is back on at the jail. So we will go back on the record in the matter of people versus Latav excuse me Latavis Rashad Thornton. This is case 25203 FY uh Mr. Anid prosecutor and Mr. Thornton representing himself have met in a breakout room. So first because prosecutor has burden of proof I'm going to ask Mr. Anid first then Mr. Thornton I'll ask you. So Mr. Anid anything from the breakout room that you'd like to report? >> Yes. I just want to make sure Mr. to throw in his dick cuz I don't see him on here. >> Oh, I I see him. Do you? >> Okay. Can you hear me? >> Okay. Yep. So, we discussed >> Yep. We discussed a little bit as much as we could. I believe we're based on my discussions with him. I don't believe this is a competency issue. I believe this is more of the um what Mr. Thorne um kind of described earlier. So, the plan I think we both agreed on is we are going to we're asking for another probable cause conference. I'm gonna somehow figure out how to provide him discovery, you know, the complaint, the information, you know, all the charging documents that we have. We're gonna come back. In the meantime, I'm going to do my due diligence to speak with our office to see how we're going to go forward with this. Um, because I know it's my understanding he wants to represent himself, that is his right. I believe based on the questions that you asked earlier, he answered them pretty fairly, your honor. I just want to make sure we got all ducks in order. I discuss a misdemeanor offer potentially with them, but also discuss that I encourage them to get a public defender. All these things I think we're going to discuss at the next probable cause conference. I think these are all appropriate matters so I can get my ducks in order. He can have discovery to know what he's looking at. Um and I believe at the next hearing we will have a good understanding of what we're doing going forward. >> Mr. Thoren, is that an accurate report? >> It's pretty accurate, your honor. Just a few more points that uh we had discussed in that breakout room was also that it was um in the discovery we would we would like to get subject matter in in the uh appointment of the authorities um that has been filed onto the record for the for these proceedings and how we came about to be into the court's jurisdiction for this matter in in in such fashion. And I I think that's kind of >> that that's that's a word salad. It's not making any soup. Can you make sense at all? Can you rephrase that for me, Mr. Thornton? >> Okay. >> So, just pretty much all in the discovery, we didn't want any documents that have been filed into the case to be missing. And that that that [clears throat] >> that's not that for that's what I mean by not just not limited to the documents titles that he named include an an inclusion of all documents filed under with all titles under them >> and >> okay >> I'll think kind of what he may be talking about is and I I could be wrong is the charging documents what gives us the authority to proceed forward and how we're proceeding forward and I explain you should wait until you discovery because I believe that's going to be the complaint, the information, and the other charging documents to see where we're at. I I could be wrong, but once he receives those, we'll come back. We'll have all of Ducks in order. I think that's that's a good resolution we both agreed on. Um, and in the meantime, I'll do my due diligence to speak with our officer how we're going to go forward. I told Mr. Thorn, you know, I'm I'm the prosecutor understands what the prosecutor is. I'm not on his side, but I did advise I'm here to help get the situation resolved as fast as possible. And um I I think we both agree that if you find good cause to adjourn this for one more probable cause conference, I believe everything will be situated. The only thing I have to ask is how do I provide discovery to Mr. Thornton? >> I would guess that you could mail it to him or Yeah, I think uh >> I'll figure it out. I'll ask my office. >> Communication through the jail. >> Okay. >> At his address through the jail. And it may have to be paper communication. >> Okay. I'll do my due diligence today when I go back when I get to the office today, your honor. >> Okay. And um yeah, I don't have discovery demand in front of me, but that would include of course um any sculpatory materials granted under Brady. That would include make a request for any body worn camera, any evidence you plan to introduce, any car video, any report that you have in your office other than was protected under attorney client privilege for the prosecutor or counsel. Mr. Thornton, anything further this morning? Not at this time, your honor. >> Just new dates. New dates. Our new probable cause. >> Yes. So, we have we have the dates and that is 8:30 a.m. April 25th for a probable cause conference and 9:00 a.m. May 1st for a preliminary exam. >> Okay. So, the next probable cause conference is about a month away. Does that sound right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. So, Mr. Thornton, if at any time you change your mind, you can communicate uh with the court and or Mr. Anid about questioning counsel. Uh at every hearing, I'm obligated to tell you your right about council and to determine uh determine the parameters of that. Uh all right. So, we will see you back at 8:30 a.m. April 25th. That is all. >> Thank you, your honor. >> Thank you. >> Take care. >> Thank you. >> Take care, Mr. >> Thank you. >> We've already said a lot on this case. Um I'm not going to beat a dead horse. Uh we talked a lot about what has happened here um in this case during the proceeding. [music] And prosecutor rightfully was kind of confused because he sees some intelligence and Mr. shoulders in his answering of questions, but competency evaluation uh still was ordered. Hopefully, we can continue to follow this case and update you on how everything uh came out for Mr. Sholdiers or how Mr. Shoulders made out. But, you know, even though he answered some questions correctly, a lot of this stuff was [music] was just a huge big word salad. But, appreciate you guys always for joining us here on the channel. And [music] there's only one thing I can leave you with, guys. And you already know what that is.