Let's step up in here and talk. Let's try it over here. Well, let's get right this way. It's closer to the property. This is a man who believed he was exercising his personal freedoms under the Fourth Amendment. After admitting to firing shots into the ground to scare off chickens on his property, he steadfastly refused to identify himself to the officers, believing no crime had been committed. You have the right to privacy, but do you have the right to refuse ID when police are investigating shots fired from your property? Look at this man's mistake. He knows the Fourth Amendment well, but he missed one detail. Police don't need absolute proof of a crime to demand identification during a lawful investigation. His stubbornness at the scene transformed him from a troubled neighbor into a criminal defendant. I have an ongoing dispute about the property line and he he can't stay off me and I've asked him to stay off me. So, I'll come out here and we're just going to put up a fence. I've not said anything to him. And he come out there and stood behind that van right y'all are in. I assume he shot up in the air. But you can see his little target sitting right down there. It's directly in line with this. He shoots every freaking day when he comes out. Okay. >> But he if we're outside he's out here shooting. And it's a constant agitation with him. I got you. >> Uh but you know he wants to shoot guns while we're sitting over on the porch. It's pretty stupid. Yeah. But uh with no backstop. But we're down here fencing and he's out there popping off rounds. That's a little That's I've got to go my separate This has been going going for 5 years. I've I got you. We ain't spoken two or three so Okay. But it never ends with him. I got you. You got your ID with you, sir? I do. Okay. This is probably just going to make it worse. You still can't be out here doing that. It's got to get documented somewhere or another that this is going on. You get it out. >> [laughter] >> They're in there tired, I tell you. Has he said anything to you today or No, we've not we've not spoken to each other in two or three years. I got you. Okay. What's a good phone number for you, sir? 615 Mhm. 633 7205 67205, got you. All right, if you don't mind go ahead and hop in your vehicle so we can talk to him. Can I get my ID back? Yeah. Hi there. Let's step up in here and talk. Let's try it over here. Well, let's get right this way. It's closer to the property. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. Yeah, I'm okay. I'm sorry to tell you everything. This is Sergeant Myers. She's going to be the one dealing with you. Anytime we deal with a call that has to do with a gun, I'm going to take it off your side, okay? No. Yes. Well, you're That's I mean if that's what you're going to do then I'm saying it's not okay as far as I'm concerned. Okay, well we're going to we're going to take it off your side. All right. Okay. Okay. So, the reason that we're here is we got a call about someone firing shots up in the air. Okay? So that's why there's so many of us here. So many of us coming out here, okay? It's pretty interesting. I can't wait to get the y'all's body cam footage. Yes, sir. And you say that's Abernathy and Myers, Sergeant Myers. Well, there's no crimes being committed here. Okay. Well, you Look, we're not saying that you committed a crime. We're just saying that We're just saying that we've got to I understand that. >> Right, yeah. And I'm not I'm not an advocate to take people's guns. I'm not. But it's just an officer safety thing. As soon as we figure this out if there's nothing wrong, I'm going to give you your gun back. I'm cool with everybody having guns. I'm cool with everybody walking around with them. I'm We're definitely pro-gun. I'm not here to take your gun. I'm not here to try to I thought we were doing a good a good job so far. I can't wait to see what this Tut guy is bringing in now. Okay. So at any point did you fire your weapon up in the air, sir? >> No. Okay. Why would we get a call that said that you had? Uh whenever I started my mower a minute ago, all my chickens was congregated underneath my van once again. So, I dropped two shots in the ground to scare them all back to their coop. But it wasn't in the air. There was two shots fired and it was in the ground. Okay. It clears them out fast. It's not the first time I've done it. I got you. I understand that completely. Um So, at no point did you fire the weapon up in the air? No. Okay. I've never fired a weapon up in the air. I just got finished with a training class this Saturday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what goes up comes back down. >> Yeah, you don't ever fire a weapon. I just fired them off into the ground. All right. You got your ID with you, sir? Um I haven't committed any crime. Sir, we're out here for a call for service. We have to identify everybody. >> Now I wish I had a camera. Uh your camera's on, sir? Okay, I I can't tell for this. Yeah. Yours is? Okay. And you are Vincent and you are Woodard. Woodard? Mhm. Okay. Yes, sir. Yeah. No, actually I don't have an ID on me, but I'm not going to ID. I'm not giving you my name and date of birth cuz there's been no crime. I'll I'll protect my Fourth Amendment. The Fourth Amendment at this point gets put aside when Okay. I'm not going to fight you. I'm not going to resist, but I'm not going to ID. I've done I've done no crime. >> Listen, listen, listen, listen to me. But I'm just telling you No, I'm glad to I'm I'm really glad to Listen, listen, listen. We don't want to arrest you. Okay, well you don't want to ID me either cuz I ain't committed no crime. We have a right to ID you because we had a call for service out here. You said that you fired shots off. I didn't say that I She asked if I fired them in the air. So, it doesn't matter if I fired shots out on my property. >> get a gun call. You see what I'm saying? We get a gun call. No. Are you Am I Am I arrested? What am I arrested for? >> Right now you're detained. >> Okay. Well, if I'm being arrested for not giving my There's a difference between detained and arrested. Right now we're trying to give you a chance to tell your side and try to ID you. And then what am I supposed I'm not IDing. You're not IDing. That's what I'm I'm not refusing to ID, but until you give me a lawful reason as to why I have to ID. Okay. Cuz we got a call for service and we The call for service is not a lawful reason to ID, sir. This is. It is. >> No, because anybody can call and make anything up. If I hadn't shot those fired those shots and he called it up and lied to y'all we still got to get his ID, too. So, what if you shot it in the ground and you instead you shooting at him? I wasn't. But that's burden of proof is on them. It's not burden of proof for me to prove I'm innocent, is it? That's why we're at We're trying to get >> statement. It's not You got cameras on your eyeglasses, too? No. No, they just saw the little circles and I didn't know if it was the >> Those are blenders. Um Uh well, no crimes have been committed so I don't know quite what to say. >> Let me explain like the reason for IDing. >> I'm I'm not really wanting to hear it. I'm I'm really not. Are you going to arrest me for not for failure to ID because that's a secondary charge. You got to have a crime first and I have not committed any crime. I've tried to explain to you why we have to ID you, sir. I'm trying to explain to you why I'm protecting my Fourth Amendment right. Had I known that it was going to be this way, I would have went and got my phone camera so I could have recorded this. I'm I'm I'm free to go? Not right now, sir. Okay. Okay, what crime are you detaining me for? It's an investigation. >> Okay, should we move off of my property because y'all are currently trespassing and I'm resenting any No, we're not trespassing. Okay, I'm just resenting any invite or any type of Y'all Y'all Y'all are Y'all are only here because of y'all and y'all's lawful orders. Not because of Not because of being invited and not because this is casual. 10-4. 10-4. I understand, sir. Look, we don't want to have to take you to jail. I don't want to go to jail. But if you're going to arrest me on something that is a secondary offense when you actually have no original crime, then that's just something I'm going to have to fight in court. Isn't that what y'all always say? No roadside court. Just do it after the fact and if I have to sue the county, then I sue the county. No big deal. Well, we have to we have to see who who we're messing with. We have to run your IDs. See you who who you are you say you are. Just because somebody give you a call for service doesn't mean I have to surrender my Fourth Amendment right. It does not. It does not. And we've come out here No, it's Right now this is an investigation. You can investigate. If he has proof that I shots fired Matter of fact, you didn't even say shots fired at him. You said shots fired at him. You said how in the world do we know since you said there were shots fired that you didn't shoot them at him. She didn't even say shot at him. She said shot in the air. Shot at him would come up on your part. You said that you shot in the ground. How do we know if you shot in the ground or shot up in the air cuz they called in and said you shot up in the air. How do we know if you're shooting at them? >> Well, don't they need proof or else they're they're filing filing false allegations? Are you going to let me answer? Either they are filing false allegations or your investigation will prove otherwise. But until you have the proof, the burden of proof is not on me to prove that I didn't shoot near. Now I'm sitting here telling you I'm not a [ __ ] so I didn't shoot near. Okay. We're not saying you're a [ __ ] but >> No, anybody that does is though. We either need an ID or name and name and date of birth. I'm going to pat you down for weapons. Put your hands together like you're praying, so that way it doesn't pinch you. What am I being arrested for? Right now, failure to identify. >> Okay, failure to identify is a secondary offense. You need an original charge. >> It's disorderly conduct. There's no disorderly conduct on private property. I didn't do anything. And you don't have proof that I did. Right together. Yeah, yeah, you're you are being disorderly when you're not. No, I'm not. When you're not doing what we're asking. No, that's not disorderly. Disorderly. Can you even be the complaint in a disorderly or do you have to have somebody else? You absolutely can. Okay. All right, do you have anything else on you, sir? >> Yes, I got a magazine. Okay. In this pocket right here. All right. >> I'm not giving you permission to take any of my belongings. >> custody right now, so Okay, I'm just letting you know what So you're cancelled into arrest. I don't know, that's that's a false arrest. All right. Our prerogative. No, it's law. Okay. You either follow the law or you don't. You're supposed to be here upholding your oath to the Constitution. You're right. Well, this is the Fourth Amendment violation. You don't have a crime. You can call a service. >> It doesn't matter who can call a service. All right, that's fine. Yeah. Mine's the first car up here. I'm happy to get you to respond. It can't work that this way off an anonymous complaint. First car up here. Have a seat. I got it. I'll put it up here with me. The subject argued that failure to ID is a secondary offense and requires an underlying crime for a lawful arrest. In theory, he is partially correct in certain jurisdictions, but in reality, when shots are fired, officers have reasonable suspicion to detain. Once detained, a refusal to cooperate can be interpreted as obstruction or disorderly conduct. Uh I'll give you the firearm that fell off this side. I just put it in my passenger floorboard, that way it was out of play. All right. Failure to identify. I'm pretty sure he's intoxicated. I I can smell it. Well, I mean well, there you go. I'm not going to say anything. It's too hot. Uh he's intoxicated. Wait, where are Wait, where He's refusing to identify. Uh Well, I mean I know what I'm doing. That's my whole thing is Uh his Fourth Amendment rights prohibit us from asking for ID. I got his phone. Uh you know, we can't talk to him in person. Name and date of birth or ID. He's refusing to identify. I'm going to get Potential crime, actual crime, whatever it is. What more can you do? He He said he fired two shots in the ground to scare the chickens back away from the from his vehicle. So had he just identified himself, it could have been a verbal warning and we'd be on our way, but Well, we don't know if that's really what he did. Yeah. I mean, that's what you're trying to explain. That's what I'm trying to explain. How do we know if you're He said I was lying on a [ __ ] I can smell it on him. Let me see if there's anything else on him. And then when we come out here, Julio drove up. I was out driving fence posts and Julio drove up and he come and stood back out at the back of his van right yonder and he shot We heard three shots. I'd say they was in the air. I'm not saying he shot at us. I'm not going to go there, but he shoots back this way every day. You can see his little target on the home plate. I mean, every day we're We're home, he comes back here and shoots. Where he stands back there at that van, he shoots that target. And that's kind of in line with my property. There's no backstop. It's a constant agitation. Just enough. Coming out here shooting at me standing in my driveway is about all I can stand. I probably should have tolerated more, but I I don't know. I I think this is the worst thing I probably could have But I'm tired of it. You know what I mean? I know you don't I need to know on record that Well, unfortunately for, you know, if we don't start doing something, it's going to get worse. And I'm not saying that it won't get worse. >> But at least you've done your part, you know, to try to prevent it going to the next step. Yeah, I don't believe it will. I don't know. Can you just bring it down here for me? What's that? It's done. I'll give it to you. All right. What do you need to give to her, sir? The van keys. Can't leave the house with the kids. All right, are they on the mower? No, they're on me. Okay. I'll get them and I'll give them to her. I ain't cleared it or nothing else. It's exactly how it was. Hold that. Clear. That's clear. You know how that goes. Guess I could have cleared it in the back of my truck, but Where are the keys at, sir? Right there. Did you tell me Have you Have y'all figured anything out yet? Yes. Okay. Where you going to take him, sir? Down there at the house. He can't be on the property. You got to get him to his wife. Oh. We're not going to be liable cuz he's going to try to sue us already, so it goes with property. All right. 68, dispatch. So, what is it I'm being arrested for? Right now, failure to identify and disorderly conduct. Does this cruiser have uh camera recording inside the cruiser? No, but my body cam's still going. Okay. 68, dispatch. I'll have one male in custody. 10-4, 68. 68, dispatch. Go ahead, 33. Use yours, one time emergency, 33. 10-4, one time emergency, 33. So, was it seven officers responding? Uh I don't know, sir. I can't count. Uh failure to identify, sir. All right, come on out, sir. He has a holster on instead of the firearm, excuse me. >> Case details. Reason for contact. Responding to an emergency call regarding shots fired. >> [music] >> Refusal to identify. Disorderly conduct, obstruction.