JUDY CHURCH: So I can say, "No, I'm not going to talk to
DETECTIVE: You can say whatever you want. Yeah. Yep, 100%.
DETECTIVE: It's up to you. Like I said-
JUDY CHURCH: Can I refuse to sign this?
JUDY CHURCH: So what does all this mean?
DETECTIVE: Yeah, if you-
JUDY CHURCH: I don't understand it. I-
DETECTIVE: So, just so you know-
JUDY CHURCH: I, I feel like I'm gonna be behind bars, and
DETECTIVE: Just so you know.
DETECTIVE: You are not, you are not-
DETECTIVE: You're not under arrest.
JUDY CHURCH: I have
This is Judy Church. She is 64, a retired
schoolteacher. Last night, the man she lived with for
10 years died in a hospital bed in Boston.
The detectives met her in her driveway and brought
her here to talk. She has just been read
her rights, and she has been told she is
free to leave. What she has not been told
is that while she sits here, officers are inside
her house with a warrant
Salisbury, Massachusetts, where the Merrimack meets the sea. Leroy
Fowler was fifty-five, a roofer who did not like
to be asked where he had been. Judy Church
owned the house they lived in and the cottage
behind it. They had been together since twenty twelve.
For years, since twenty sixteen by her count, he
had also been seeing a woman named Barbara Randall
and coming home. They were packing to move to
Florida.
DETECTIVE: up, let's go 72 hours before the death.
DETECTIVE: So it happened on Friday morning, so that's
DETECTIVE: what? Thursday.
DETECTIVE: Wednesday. So Tuesday morning, can you bring
DETECTIVE: me from Tuesday morning, uh, you with Leroy,
DETECTIVE: and can you bring me up to, uh, Friday
DETECTIVE: morning at, I believe the phone call's eight
DETECTIVE: oh two. So all the time before, um...
DETECTIVE: So I guess let's start with Tuesday morning
DETECTIVE: at, at eight thirty or when you woke up,
DETECTIVE: whatever time that was.
JUDY CHURCH: but I know I went out and got groceries.
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.
JUDY CHURCH: And when I came home, Leroy was, was gone.
JUDY CHURCH: He took off in his truck.
JUDY CHURCH: And
JUDY CHURCH: I, I was sur- I mean,
JUDY CHURCH: I told my tenant in the cottage to, you know,
JUDY CHURCH: that we were coming to fix her floor.
JUDY CHURCH: So then I had to text her back and say,
JUDY CHURCH: "Sorry, he's gone," and, you know, "I don't
JUDY CHURCH: know when he'll be back and took off on me."
JUDY CHURCH: And, um,
JUDY CHURCH: um, which always, you know, makes me sad.
JUDY CHURCH: But he did come home.
JUDY CHURCH: And I was putting groceries away
JUDY CHURCH: and, uh...
JUDY CHURCH: And he told me that, uh,
JUDY CHURCH: he had to go over to the, well, we call her
JUDY CHURCH: the CUNT.
JUDY CHURCH: And, um,
JUDY CHURCH: because he realized she had taken his, uh,
JUDY CHURCH: his disability money goes on a, like a
JUDY CHURCH: prepaid card e- eight months.
DETECTIVE: Who, who are you talking about?
DETECTIVE: Okay. Barbara Randall, okay.
JUDY CHURCH: Well,
JUDY CHURCH: normal Leroy. I mean, he did what he wanted
JUDY CHURCH: and you, you don't, you don't tell him what
JUDY CHURCH: You just don't.
JUDY CHURCH: And, uh,
JUDY CHURCH: you know, you don't, you don't ruffle the
JUDY CHURCH: waters.
DETECTIVE: Hmm.
DETECTIVE: And what makes you say that?
DETECTIVE: Like, what's his demeanor like typically?
DETECTIVE: Like, what would make you say, like, about
DETECTIVE: Leroy you don't wanna ruffle the water with
JUDY CHURCH: Well, he doesn't...
JUDY CHURCH: He won't, he won't a- he won't ask que- Like,
JUDY CHURCH: if I asked him, "Where did you go?" He
JUDY CHURCH: wouldn't tell me.
JUDY CHURCH: But
JUDY CHURCH: Yeah. I, I, I lived with it.
DETECTIVE: How, how long-
JUDY CHURCH: That, that's my... You know, that's n- that's just-
DETECTIVE: How long has that-
JUDY CHURCH: ... how much I love that man
JUDY CHURCH: No, longer. Since two thousand sixteen.
DETECTIVE: Okay, so, okay, it's like six years.
DETECTIVE: That's when... But prior, 'cause how long
DETECTIVE: were you with Leroy for in a, in like a
DETECTIVE: dating relationship?
JUDY CHURCH: 2012.
DETECTIVE: So 10 years. So y- would you say you had the first four
DETECTIVE: years of your relationship was pretty, like,
DETECTIVE: just I guess you and him?
DETECTIVE: Okay. And then all of a sudden-
JUDY CHURCH: He meets up with this woman.
JUDY CHURCH: He lived on pie and cupcakes.
DETECTIVE: Pie and cupcakes.
JUDY CHURCH: Yeah, cookies and milk.
DETECTIVE: So would you describe his diet as unhealthy?
JUDY CHURCH: I would. I would.
JUDY CHURCH: As
JUDY CHURCH: Um, he was up when I checked on him at
DETECTIVE: Okay. He was up. Okay
JUDY CHURCH: ... because it was, because it was his birthday.
DETECTIVE: Okay. Yep.
JUDY CHURCH: Um...
JUDY CHURCH: Uh...
DETECTIVE: So around midnight.
JUDY CHURCH: I went in to say happy birthday to him, asked
JUDY CHURCH: him if he wanted to open his presents.
JUDY CHURCH: He said, "No, I'll do it, I'll do it later."
JUDY CHURCH: Which I okayed.
JUDY CHURCH: He would text, you know, his...
JUDY CHURCH: Um, kind of woke up.
JUDY CHURCH: And then at, um...
JUDY CHURCH: But I did, must've dozed and I heard the
JUDY CHURCH: metal being... We had made a pile of metal
JUDY CHURCH: That he had someone, uh, a friend, he knew,
JUDY CHURCH: ... who picks it up.
JUDY CHURCH: And Guinea was coming at 11 on Friday to pick
JUDY CHURCH: the metal up. But at 4:30 in the morning I could hear from
JUDY CHURCH: the front of the house somebody clanging like
JUDY CHURCH: a big piece on the ground, and I looked out
JUDY CHURCH: and it wasn't Guinea's truck, you know, it
JUDY CHURCH: was a different person.
JUDY CHURCH: And, uh, I went out to the back room and I
JUDY CHURCH: asked him.
JUDY CHURCH: Uh, he said, "No, um, Guinea's coming at 11."
JUDY CHURCH: That's how I know that.
DETECTIVE: What, what
JUDY CHURCH: He said he'd be right in.
JUDY CHURCH: And it was around 6:30, 6:35-ish,
JUDY CHURCH: I, he comes into the bedroom.
JUDY CHURCH: Um, I'm a light sleeper and he woke me and he
JUDY CHURCH: said, "My legs won't work. I've just fell three times-
JUDY CHURCH: ... you know, walking through the kitchen
JUDY CHURCH: area to the bedroom."
DETECTIVE: Do you hear it?
JUDY CHURCH: That's where the... He had to go to the bathroom.
JUDY CHURCH: And I said, "Well, let me help you." And
JUDY CHURCH: clearly he was legless.
JUDY CHURCH: So, um,
JUDY CHURCH: after that he said to me, "I'm gonna die.
JUDY CHURCH: You know that, don't you?"
JUDY CHURCH: And I told him, "Stop," you know?
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.
JUDY CHURCH: That's what he usually says to me, "Stop."
JUDY CHURCH: If I ask questions about where, he went,
JUDY CHURCH: That's... So we stop... So I just hit back at him.
JUDY CHURCH: And then-
DETECTIVE: Why do you think he said that?
JUDY CHURCH: I think he knew.
JUDY CHURCH: I think he knew things were wrong.
JUDY CHURCH: Salt. Yes. He loves his dog.
JUDY CHURCH: And I think he went to reach for him and he
JUDY CHURCH: fell out of bed.
JUDY CHURCH: So he wrap- had wrapped himself up in the
JUDY CHURCH: blankets and slid right off the bed to the
JUDY CHURCH: Now, the bed is up, you know, up high.
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
JUDY CHURCH: And, uh...
DETECTIVE: Did you hear a thump?
JUDY CHURCH: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
JUDY CHURCH: I got up, I put a pillow under his head.
DETECTIVE: Where were you when that happened?
DETECTIVE: Oh, so you were in bed next to him?
DETECTIVE: Got it. Okay. Were you... Okay.
DETECTIVE: Sorry.
JUDY CHURCH: And, um,
JUDY CHURCH: I put a pillow under his head thinking,
JUDY CHURCH: ... anyway, you just gotta settle.
JUDY CHURCH: I said, you know, "Just stay where you are
JUDY CHURCH: and I'll, I'll make you comfortable." Um, but
JUDY CHURCH: I did ask him, "Do I need to call an
JUDY CHURCH: ambulance?" Because-
JUDY CHURCH: ... as he was kind of falling around the, the
JUDY CHURCH: bedroom, um,
JUDY CHURCH: I just kept hoping, you know-
JUDY CHURCH: ... putting my hand or, you know, guiding or
JUDY CHURCH: pushing things away so he wouldn't hurt
JUDY CHURCH: Uh, you know, the sharp corner of the bed-
JUDY CHURCH: ... you know, things like that.
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.
JUDY CHURCH: And, uh, he...
JUDY CHURCH: I would ask him, "What's my name?
JUDY CHURCH: What's your name?"
JUDY CHURCH: And he wasn't responding.
JUDY CHURCH: He didn't, he didn't talk to, talk to me.
JUDY CHURCH: And then, uh,
JUDY CHURCH: I guess a little after 8:00 he said, "Call
JUDY CHURCH: the ambulance," and I did.
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.
DISPATCHER: What's going on there?
JUDY CHURCH: Um, I don't know.
JUDY CHURCH: My boyfriend, um, must have ingested
JUDY CHURCH: something, and he's, uh, he can't stand, and
JUDY CHURCH: I can't help him.
JUDY CHURCH: And he's tore the bedroom apart trying to
JUDY CHURCH: stand. Uh, now his nose is bleeding, and he
JUDY CHURCH: told me, "Call the ambulance."
DISPATCHER: Okay. Is he having, um, stomach pain or just
JUDY CHURCH: Well, it sounds like he's in pain.
JUDY CHURCH: Yeah. Well, he's in pain because he's hit
JUDY CHURCH: everything in his bedroom.
DISPATCHER: Okay
The call came in at two minutes past eight
in the morning. By her own account, he had
come to her bedroom unable to stand at half
past six.
DETECTIVE: How would you describe, like, his behavior?
DETECTIVE: Like, did he seem like he was, like, high or
JUDY CHURCH: He was... Yeah, he was out of it
DETECTIVE: ... having like a-
JUDY CHURCH: He was out of it. He was like a legless drunk, yeah.
JUDY CHURCH: They, they... Hang on one second.
JUDY CHURCH: He did say, "Give me a cigarette."
DETECTIVE: When was that at?
JUDY CHURCH: Before the... What?
JUDY CHURCH: After calling... And I'm like, "I'm not
JUDY CHURCH: getting you a cigarette."
DETECTIVE: After calling the ambulance?
JUDY CHURCH: So he did have more words to say.
JUDY CHURCH: And I was like, "No, I'm not getting you a
DETECTIVE: What did you, what did you think was going
DETECTIVE: What did you feel like was going on with him?
JUDY CHURCH: He was, uh,
JUDY CHURCH: drugged.
JUDY CHURCH: Obviously.
JUDY CHURCH: I was his healthcare proxy.
JUDY CHURCH: And they told me all his scans came...
JUDY CHURCH: See, what... Here's my confusion.
JUDY CHURCH: He's agitated still, you know.
JUDY CHURCH: He's still trying to tr- struggle.
DETECTIVE: Did he know where he is? So he's like-
JUDY CHURCH: No, I don't think he knew. Well, I don't know.
JUDY CHURCH: I don't know because-
JUDY CHURCH: ... he, um, he wouldn't say my name, and he
JUDY CHURCH: didn't say his name, but you know, he,
JUDY CHURCH: "Where's my dog?"
DETECTIVE: Mm.
JUDY CHURCH: So...
DETECTIVE: How many times did he say that?
JUDY CHURCH: Well, he said that at home,
JUDY CHURCH: and he said it at Anna Jaques before they
JUDY CHURCH: sedated him. Um,
JUDY CHURCH: you know, the nurses all kind of looked at me
JUDY CHURCH: like, you know, "You know, how come he's not
JUDY CHURCH: asking for you?" And I said, "I, I take
JUDY CHURCH: second place to the dog," but...
JUDY CHURCH: But all of those things were good.
DETECTIVE: who notified you that he passed away?
DETECTIVE: Oh, so it was... Okay, so Leroy has still talked to you.
DETECTIVE: He hasn't been-
DETECTIVE: ... just jamming you up.
JUDY CHURCH: And I, and I gave him the whole story.
JUDY CHURCH: ... I texted him the whole thing, you know?
JUDY CHURCH: It, it, it, it, it's the truth of t- as I
JUDY CHURCH: know it and it ha- it can't change.
DETECTIVE: Well, facts are facts
JUDY CHURCH: ... I'm not making any fiction facts.
DETECTIVE: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
JUDY CHURCH: I'm in shock.
JUDY CHURCH: The man was my world.
JUDY CHURCH: And I think his family is shutting me out
DETECTIVE: What makes you think that?
JUDY CHURCH: I don't know, just-
DETECTIVE: 'Cause I know you said you'd talk to them,
JUDY CHURCH: I, I texted Tammy.
JUDY CHURCH: They're not replying.
JUDY CHURCH: ... the man loved me.
DETECTIVE: Yes.
Her account of that morning and the records. If
you want the tape with the record beside it,
subscribe
The detective has already listened to the nine one
one call. He has already spoken to Leroy's family
and his friends. He's going to ask her about
a morning three years earlier and then about a
drink
JUDY CHURCH: Um, you know, and they w- they said, "Did he
JUDY CHURCH: take anything?" And I said, uh, "You know,
JUDY CHURCH: I've seen this before."
JUDY CHURCH: And, um,
JUDY CHURCH: um,
JUDY CHURCH: I know it was wintertime of the 2019.
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.
JUDY CHURCH: You know, when everybody's kinda really
JUDY CHURCH: locked up tight in their house.
JUDY CHURCH: And, uh, but very similar.
JUDY CHURCH: I had to follow him around, you know, in that
JUDY CHURCH: all... You know, he do, had another story
JUDY CHURCH: going on in his head and I-
JUDY CHURCH: And he spoke gibberish and, um, I, you know,
JUDY CHURCH: truthfully, I didn't know what to do.
JUDY CHURCH: He, um,
JUDY CHURCH: s- s- had legs, you know what I mean, but he
JUDY CHURCH: And, um,
JUDY CHURCH: I didn't know what to do.
DETECTIVE: Yeah. Now it's 2019.
DETECTIVE: How did he recover from that?
DETECTIVE: Like slept it off. So you didn't call an ambulance or wait-
JUDY CHURCH: I did. I did
DETECTIVE: ... when you say 2019, although it was
DETECTIVE: similar, was it as bad as what just happened?
DETECTIVE: Oh, it was?
DETECTIVE: And he... Okay.
DETECTIVE: So maybe you just got lucky that time.
JUDY CHURCH: 'Cause I'd be asking him, "What did you take?
JUDY CHURCH: What did you take?"
JUDY CHURCH: And, uh...'cause he left the house,
JUDY CHURCH: um, and then he came back.
JUDY CHURCH: I didn't think he would,
JUDY CHURCH: but he came back.
JUDY CHURCH: I didn't see him take anything.
DETECTIVE: Okay. Um, so I did listen to the 911 tape,
DETECTIVE: and I actually did hear you say, "Don't take
DETECTIVE: him to Anna Jaques." Um, but- Um, and
DETECTIVE: they... When they were transferring him.
DETECTIVE: I don't think they had a choice.
JUDY CHURCH: I, I don't think they have a choice really.
DETECTIVE: Yeah. Yeah, I think they kind of have to go
DETECTIVE: with the closest. Um, you did say you thought he ingested
DETECTIVE: something. So, like, what made you think he
JUDY CHURCH: Because you don't...
JUDY CHURCH: I, I don't have a conversation that seemed
JUDY CHURCH: normal at 4:00-
JUDY CHURCH: ... and
JUDY CHURCH: to... He's legless.
DETECTIVE: All of
JUDY CHURCH: No, I play... I'm Dr. Google.
JUDY CHURCH: I look everything up and-
DETECTIVE: Okay. Oh,
DETECTIVE: in the basement.
JUDY CHURCH: Well, that's the...
JUDY CHURCH: That is what happens in when your body expels
JUDY CHURCH: that, um, the carbon monoxide caused from the
JUDY CHURCH: acid in your body.
JUDY CHURCH: So it's elevated.
JUDY CHURCH: That's what part of that whole acid-
DETECTIVE: Is that what they said at Anna Jaques?
DETECTIVE: Why he might have had a higher-
DETECTIVE: ... CO levels?
JUDY CHURCH: Not, not that carbon monoxide was the cause,
JUDY CHURCH: but it was worth... Anything was worth looking into.
JUDY CHURCH: I even told little Leroy last night, uh, he
JUDY CHURCH: kept saying there's an unknown toxin in his
JUDY CHURCH: blood
JUDY CHURCH: ... he said it wasn't Percs.
JUDY CHURCH: It wasn't coke.
JUDY CHURCH: It wasn't, um, I don't know, whatever else it
JUDY CHURCH: could've been. And, uh, it, it's an unknown
JUDY CHURCH: and, a- and I guess everybody wants to know
JUDY CHURCH: what the unknown is, and so don't I.
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.
JUDY CHURCH: And then I said, well, he cleaned out the
JUDY CHURCH: basement, and he crawled up onto the cottage.
JUDY CHURCH: There was obviously evidence of, uh,
JUDY CHURCH: And, um, maybe he...
JUDY CHURCH: 'Cause I've heard, you know, rat poop, you
JUDY CHURCH: smell it, you can die.
DETECTIVE: It's nasty stuff.
DETECTIVE: Right. And in the boat.
JUDY CHURCH: So I mentioned that. I mean, that could be...
JUDY CHURCH: That could have been it and-
JUDY CHURCH: ...
JUDY CHURCH: So I, I, you know, I was like rat poop.
DETECTIVE: Rat poop, yeah.
JUDY CHURCH: Molds. Uh, you're just clutching at straws to
DETECTIVE: Like,
Since Saturday, the detective has known what the hospital
believed was in Leroy Fowler's blood. He has let
her talk for the best part of an hour
before he says it
DETECTIVE: But, um, we have been able to talk to the
DETECTIVE: hospital and we have preliminary results of
DETECTIVE: what that toxin could be.
DETECTIVE: Um, and it... Antifreeze, um, was detected in his system.
DETECTIVE: So how... That's what the preliminary results
DETECTIVE: are. We need to wait till the official lab
DETECTIVE: results come back.
DETECTIVE: But we talked to the doctor.
DETECTIVE: That's what is preliminarily determined to be
DETECTIVE: in his blood.
DETECTIVE: Um, so that's why I was asking you about like
DETECTIVE: suicide, things like that.
DETECTIVE: I'm trying to figure out like how that could
DETECTIVE: have got in his blood.
JUDY CHURCH: I don't even know if we had antifreeze at the
DETECTIVE: Okay.
JUDY CHURCH: So you're thinking he drank this himself?
DETECTIVE: ... homemade
JUDY CHURCH: Right out of the can.
DETECTIVE: Go- Okay. So the soda's out of the picture.
DETECTIVE: And he didn't drink... 'Cause I'm assuming
DETECTIVE: if that's what it is and it got in his...
DETECTIVE: He had to have drank it.
DETECTIVE: I'm assuming you don't eat un- unless he
DETECTIVE: drank it direct from like the bottle.
DETECTIVE: But you said you don't even have antifreeze
DETECTIVE: in the house,
DETECTIVE: or something of that nature.
DETECTIVE: I'm, I'm not like an expert on that stuff.
JUDY CHURCH: I'm not, I'm not an expert on toxins either,
JUDY CHURCH: ... things would be under the sink.
JUDY CHURCH: There could be things out in the back.
JUDY CHURCH: He likes to fix bicycles.
JUDY CHURCH: Um, but I don't, I don't know if there's any
JUDY CHURCH: toxins in that.
DETECTIVE: ... kinda now me telling you what I know,
DETECTIVE: like you don't see him doing that, that-
DETECTIVE: ... type of thing. Okay.
JUDY CHURCH: No. Not ever. He kind of likes himself, you know?
JUDY CHURCH: You know, he's a, um,
JUDY CHURCH: he's a private man.
JUDY CHURCH: He's a
JUDY CHURCH: But then he said to me, "I'm gonna die."
DETECTIVE: Mm.
JUDY CHURCH: Which is fun, which is odd.
JUDY CHURCH: I, like I said, he usually says, "You're
JUDY CHURCH: killing me," and we laugh about it.
DETECTIVE: So
DETECTIVE: we've also been told that Leroy in the past
DETECTIVE: has thought that he's been being poisoned by
DETECTIVE: somebody, and he doesn't feel good, and it's
DETECTIVE: been an issue.
DETECTIVE: So this is... We're trying to piece together how he feels
DETECTIVE: that way, and then he has what they
DETECTIVE: determined to be antifreeze in his system.
JUDY CHURCH: Okay. Um, I don't know how there's antifreeze
JUDY CHURCH: in his system.
JUDY CHURCH: I make him coffee fraps.
JUDY CHURCH: And, yeah, he's a bad boy, you know.
JUDY CHURCH: He- ... he cheats on me and stuff.
JUDY CHURCH: And, um,
JUDY CHURCH: one day I bring him his frap and, uh, he
JUDY CHURCH: says, "You're not trying to poison me, are
JUDY CHURCH: you?"
JUDY CHURCH: You know, I laugh, take a sip of it myself.
JUDY CHURCH: You know, but it was kind of an ongoing joke
DETECTIVE: Mm-hmm.
JUDY CHURCH: ... like right that, um...
JUDY CHURCH: On Wednesday, we watched a lot of true crime,
JUDY CHURCH: 'cause now it's... That's popping into my head.
JUDY CHURCH: He says, "When I get to Florida, um, uh, I
JUDY CHURCH: think I'll become a serial killer."
JUDY CHURCH: And so I just keep looking at him, you know,
JUDY CHURCH: like, you know, "But you wouldn't kill me."
DETECTIVE: So there's a channel called True Crime, and
DETECTIVE: he watches true crime.
DETECTIVE: Do you like true crime?
JUDY CHURCH: Once in a while I watch them. I call them the murder shows.
JUDY CHURCH: ... any murder shows?
DETECTIVE: Do you relate more to the detectives or to
DETECTIVE: the serial killers like he does?
JUDY CHURCH: Um, oh, I, I don't wanna know anything about
JUDY CHURCH: the serial killer.
JUDY CHURCH: I like, I like the process.
DETECTIVE: Yeah.
DETECTIVE: If the tests results do come back that it is
DETECTIVE: antifreeze, is there any enemies of Leroy?
DETECTIVE: Is there anyone that you could see doing
DETECTIVE: this?
DETECTIVE: Anyone that would have the ability to do it?
JUDY CHURCH: Well, there's Barbara.
JUDY CHURCH: She's batshit crazy.
DETECTIVE: Okay.
DETECTIVE: Would she have, like, a motive or drive to do
DETECTIVE: that? Like, you know, she-
JUDY CHURCH: Yeah, 'cause he leaves, you know, he comes back to me.
JUDY CHURCH: He always comes home to me.
JUDY CHURCH: I don't, I don't talk to her.
JUDY CHURCH: I don't, I don't wanna see her.
JUDY CHURCH: I don't even wanna bump into her.
JUDY CHURCH: She's just evil incarnate.
JUDY CHURCH: but she was very manipulative, and she'd do
JUDY CHURCH: ... to have him back.
DETECTIVE: So you could see her being capable of-
JUDY CHURCH: I'd be the one being poisoned.
JUDY CHURCH: You know what I'm saying?
DETECTIVE: So would you not see her being capable of
DETECTIVE: doing something to this, to, to Leroy?
DETECTIVE: I know you said maybe to you, but could you
DETECTIVE: see her doing that to Leroy?
DETECTIVE: Okay.
DETECTIVE: Um, and so if we found antifreeze in your
DETECTIVE: ... right, um, what would you say if we found
DETECTIVE: your fingerprints on the antifreeze?
JUDY CHURCH: I, it wouldn't be.
DETECTIVE: It wouldn't be. Okay.
JUDY CHURCH: Uh, nope.
JUDY CHURCH: Unless I bought it, but I don't even remember
DETECTIVE: Right.
DETECTIVE: ... would you do a polygraph so we could just
DETECTIVE: clear you and move on-
DETECTIVE: ... to the next person?
JUDY CHURCH: But of course half my heart is with me.
JUDY CHURCH: Yes, but yes.
DETECTIVE: But are you-
JUDY CHURCH: Absolutely. I have nothing to hide.
DETECTIVE: 'Cause my thing is I just need to
DETECTIVE: check the box, go to the next thing.
DETECTIVE: You've told me some other things about other
DETECTIVE: ... um, where I need to start looking, but
DETECTIVE: with my job I need to be thorough with one
DETECTIVE: person, and then move to the next, and then
DETECTIVE: move to the next.
DETECTIVE: Death investigations are just a lot more, um-
JUDY CHURCH: No, I've, I-
DETECTIVE: ... by, like it shows, by the numbers
JUDY CHURCH: ... I will do it. I will do it.
DETECTIVE: I'm not saying I'm gonna-
JUDY CHURCH: I'm just scared.
DETECTIVE: I'm not saying I'm gonna-
JUDY CHURCH: I don't wanna do it right now. Please don't.
DETECTIVE: I'm, I'm not,
DETECTIVE: And I do know when you were sitting out there
DETECTIVE: before you came in, like, you had your phone
DETECTIVE: and I saw you deleting messages.
DETECTIVE: But you said those were-
JUDY CHURCH: They try to-
DETECTIVE: ... junk mail-
DETECTIVE: ... type things.
DETECTIVE: Okay.
DETECTIVE: You prepare his food. Did you put anything in it?
JUDY CHURCH: Did I put anything?
DETECTIVE: Did you put any poison in his food or drinks?
JUDY CHURCH: No. No, I didn't.
DETECTIVE: So you're telling me you did not poison him?
JUDY CHURCH: I did not poison him.
JUDY CHURCH: I loved him.
JUDY CHURCH: I wouldn't harm a hair on that man's head.
DETECTIVE: You, you weren't upset that he's bouncing
DETECTIVE: back and forth between you and Barbara?
JUDY CHURCH: It upsets me, but, you know, he comes home to
JUDY CHURCH: me. He loves me.
JUDY CHURCH: We have the future, the plan.
While she talks, the warrant is being served. The
detective has been told what the officers at her
house are finding. He is going to tell her
the room and let her fill in the rest
DETECTIVE: Um, is there any reason why Leroy's family
DETECTIVE: would say that you were poisoning him?
DETECTIVE: 'Cause I know you mentioned you went right to
DETECTIVE: the, the coffee drink or milk- Is it a
DETECTIVE: milkshake? Is that ice-
DETECTIVE: ... ice cream or something?
JUDY CHURCH: Coffee ice cream. Yeah, a milkshake.
DETECTIVE: Coffee ice cream. Frappe. So why would his-
JUDY CHURCH: I said that to Tammy the other day, just the
JUDY CHURCH: other day, and that's why they got it in
JUDY CHURCH: their head. It was a joke-
JUDY CHURCH: ... between Leroy and I.
JUDY CHURCH: ... surely, surely, they can't think that's
JUDY CHURCH: Absolutely not.
JUDY CHURCH: Absolutely not. I've done everything for that
JUDY CHURCH: man in the name of love, everything.
JUDY CHURCH: To want him dead?
JUDY CHURCH: No.
JUDY CHURCH: No. Never.
DETECTIVE: 'Cause I'll be honest with you, I've, I've
DETECTIVE: spoken to Tammy. I've spoken to Bill.
DETECTIVE: I've spoken to Leroy. I've spoken to, um, Mike Hawkins.
DETECTIVE: Um, obviously, I've spoken to you.
DETECTIVE: I haven't spoken to Barbara yet.
DETECTIVE: But I've been working this ever since I got
DETECTIVE: And what if I told you that right now we are
DETECTIVE: doing a search warrant on your house like I
DETECTIVE: told you in the lobby-
DETECTIVE: ... and there is antifreeze in your kitchen?
JUDY CHURCH: I don't know anything about it, and you won't
JUDY CHURCH: find my fingerprints on it.
DETECTIVE: Do you know why there would be antifreeze in
DETECTIVE: your kitchen?
JUDY CHURCH: Do I know why there would be?
JUDY CHURCH: No, I do not.
DETECTIVE: 'Cause I know with
JUDY CHURCH: Yeah.
JUDY CHURCH: If you're looking to me to be the bad guy,
JUDY CHURCH: you know, they're putting the blame on me,
JUDY CHURCH: and they just wanna focus on me, and it isn't
JUDY CHURCH: me.
DETECTIVE: Have you ever seen the antifreeze in the
DETECTIVE: kitchen before? If it, if we just, we just
DETECTIVE: found, and, and this isn't an if, we did.
DETECTIVE: We just found antifreeze in your kitchen.
DETECTIVE: So have you ever seen antifreeze-
DETECTIVE: ... in your kitchen?
DETECTIVE: So you weren't aware that it was-
DETECTIVE: ... that it was there?
JUDY CHURCH: No.
DETECTIVE: Um,
DETECTIVE: is it typical to keep those types of items in
DETECTIVE: the kitchen?
JUDY CHURCH: I wouldn't put antifreeze in the kitchen.
DETECTIVE: Did Leroy put any, like did he store anything
DETECTIVE: in the kitchen?
JUDY CHURCH: You saw my kitchen, correct?
DETECTIVE: No, I didn't. Yes.
JUDY CHURCH: It's a mess. And, uh, where things are being put, uh, you
JUDY CHURCH: know, could be willy-nilly at this point.
JUDY CHURCH: But I
JUDY CHURCH: don't even know what a bottle of antifreeze
JUDY CHURCH: looks like, first of all.
JUDY CHURCH: I would never store it under my sink where I
JUDY CHURCH: put my,
JUDY CHURCH: you know, regular cleaning utensils-
JUDY CHURCH: ... and rags and things.
JUDY CHURCH: It wouldn't would be my choice, so.
The officers at the house had found an empty
bottle of windshield de-icer, the kind that is mostly
ethylene glycol, in her kitchen, and in her trash
a Powerade bottle with the same orange residue. The
medical examiner would find the same chemical in his
kidneys
DETECTIVE: When you make the coffee shakes for him, how
DETECTIVE: are they blended?
JUDY CHURCH: On a, like a Ninja machine.
DETECTIVE: If we took the Ninja machine and tested it,
DETECTIVE: would there be antifreeze in it?
DETECTIVE: Okay. What about the dish towels, if we
DETECTIVE: tested those, would that have antifreeze on
DETECTIVE: From washing the dishes or anything?
JUDY CHURCH: Antifreeze? Oh, no.
DETECTIVE: Like you clean something and then it
DETECTIVE: transfers on to the dish towels, and then you
DETECTIVE: test it and it comes back.
JUDY CHURCH: Shouldn't be.
DETECTIVE: Can you understand
DETECTIVE: Um, so with your phone, we are gonna search
DETECTIVE: it. That was in the warrant.
DETECTIVE: So are we gonna find anything about search
DETECTIVE: histories on antifreeze or messages about
DETECTIVE: antifreeze, and why would those be there?
DETECTIVE: No. Can we have your passcode for your phone?
DETECTIVE: What's your passcode?
JUDY CHURCH: Um, [withheld]
DETECTIVE: Do you know Leroy's, uh, password for his
DETECTIVE: Do you use... Was it numbers or did he use, like, a design?
JUDY CHURCH: I don't know. He was very private about his phone 'cause
DETECTIVE: So just,
DETECTIVE: L- Leroy was with you for a few days before
JUDY CHURCH: Mm-hmm.
DETECTIVE: Something happens. He goes to the hospital.
DETECTIVE: They find antifreeze in him.
JUDY CHURCH: Mm-hmm.
DETECTIVE: It had to get there somehow.
DETECTIVE: So how did it get there?
JUDY CHURCH: I don't know.
DETECTIVE: Do you think when we test his drinking
DETECTIVE: containers that we will, um, detect
DETECTIVE: antifreeze in it?
JUDY CHURCH: Maybe. If he drank...
JUDY CHURCH: If you're telling me he ingested it-
DETECTIVE: I'm saying preliminarily
JUDY CHURCH: ... but my can, my hands were not be on that
JUDY CHURCH: Well, actually, 'cause I put 'em in the
JUDY CHURCH: fridge for him.
DETECTIVE: Yes?
DETECTIVE: Do you recognize this?
DETECTIVE: What is it?
JUDY CHURCH: Um, it's just one of my notebooks.
DETECTIVE: Is it, like, a diary or...?
JUDY CHURCH: Uh, it's got a lot of things on it.
JUDY CHURCH: A mixture of things.
DETECTIVE: How are you,
DETECTIVE: like, coping with him leaving and going to
DETECTIVE: bars and... Does that drive you crazy?
DETECTIVE: Do you get upset when he goes?
DETECTIVE: So, so say he, you know, he goes for-
JUDY CHURCH: Yes, I get upset. Of course I get upset
JUDY CHURCH: ... but I don't do anything about it.
JUDY CHURCH: He comes home and, you know, he has little
JUDY CHURCH: ways of making it up to me, and everything's
JUDY CHURCH: fine again. You know, we're happy and
JUDY CHURCH: laughing and... No, I don't.
JUDY CHURCH: Did not kill that man
JUDY CHURCH: I think I need a lawyer.
JUDY CHURCH: This is, this is sounding ridiculous to me
DETECTIVE: Okay. If you want a lawyer, that's fine.
DETECTIVE: Um, is that what you'd like to do?
DETECTIVE: Okay. Um-
JUDY CHURCH: What does that say?
JUDY CHURCH: I don't even know 'cause I write things all
DETECTIVE: Um, you want me to read this list?
JUDY CHURCH: Yeah, what's that say?
JUDY CHURCH: In capital letters, written-
DETECTIVE: Well, you, you asked for a lawyer, so you kinda put me-
JUDY CHURCH: Oh, okay. Forget it
DETECTIVE: ... I can, I can give you a, a-
JUDY CHURCH: They can, you can read every book o- of mine.
DETECTIVE: I can, um, I can give you a minute-
DETECTIVE: ... if you want and then I'll come back in
DETECTIVE: and I can re-read your rights.
DETECTIVE: Um, but since you brought up a lawyer, I have
DETECTIVE: to at least give you time to-
DETECTIVE: ... um, think about that as well as the
DETECTIVE: opportunity
DETECTIVE: Um, but like I said, I'm a rule person.
DETECTIVE: You asked for a lawyer.
DETECTIVE: I'm gonna stop. I'm not gonna-
DETECTIVE: ... push it, so. Does that phone work for her?
DETECTIVE: Like, outgoing calls? Mm-hmm. Do you have to press anything?
DETECTIVE: You just got to dial 9 first.
DETECTIVE: It, you've done that before.
DETECTIVE: Do you want to call somebody?
DETECTIVE: We're gonna give you that. We'll leave the room.
JUDY CHURCH: I can't leave?
DETECTIVE: We'll, we'll, we're gonna leave the room and,
DETECTIVE: and no, you are, you are free to leave.
DETECTIVE: You're not under arrest.
DETECTIVE: But you asked me about this. You wanted to talk about it.
DETECTIVE: So I'm just letting you know, it's, if you
DETECTIVE: asked for a lawyer. If you want it to be over, it's over.
DETECTIVE: If you wanna talk about this-
DETECTIVE: ... then we'll obviously step out, give you
DETECTIVE: the opportunity to use the phone.
DETECTIVE: Whether or not you use the phone, that's up
JUDY CHURCH: No, I wanna go home.
JUDY CHURCH: I, uh, I, you know, every, everyone writes
JUDY CHURCH: things down. It's a way to vent.
JUDY CHURCH: It's a way to get things out.
DETECTIVE: I, I, I have to-
DETECTIVE: I'm sorry, I'm-
JUDY CHURCH: I know, I know
DETECTIVE: ... I have to stop because you asked for a lawyer
JUDY CHURCH: Well, then I'm, I'm just saying and-
DETECTIVE: I'm, I'm not trying to be rude
JUDY CHURCH: ... you can find all kinds of things that
JUDY CHURCH: might look like, but I don't know how the
JUDY CHURCH: antifreeze got there.
DETECTIVE: Um, the time now is 5:36.
DETECTIVE: I'm going to end the interview.
She walked out of the station that afternoon. Five
weeks later, three days before Christmas, she was arrested.
The trial came in March of twenty twenty-six in
Salem. The jury heard the nine one one call.
They saw the empty bottle of de-icer from her
kitchen and the Powerade bottle from her trash with
the same orange residue inside. They saw her notebook.
They heard a cousin say that years before, in
front of them both, she had said she would
poison him if he cheated on her. They heard
his stepson say that Leroy had told him he
thought she was poisoning him. They watched videos from
her own phone of him on the floor unable
to speak while she asked him, "You having fun?"
And the medical examiner told them what ethylene glycol
leaves behind in a kidney
On the 30th of March, the jury found her
guilty of murder in the first degree by deliberate
premeditation and by extreme atrocity or cruelty. On the
2nd of April, the judge sentenced her to life
in prison without the possibility of parole. She has
said she will appeal
On the day of the interview, she told the
detective she was scared she would end up behind
bars. He told her she was free to go.
She was