what do you what do you have right there between your legs an unopened bottle of Esplanade OK and where did you get that at uh I got it from a friend I don't feel at this point you have to give us your name OK why you don't have a choice because you are the suspect of an investigation how am I a suspect let me finish if you refuse to give us your name you will be arrested for obstruction this is the last time I'm gonna tell you you can either give us your name or you are going to be arrested arrested for what for obstructing a cop ON SEPTEMBER 4TH, 2 THOUSAND TWENTY FOUR AN OFFICER RESPONDED TO A REPORTED RETAIL THEFT AT A RETAIL STORE THE STOP THAT FOLLOWED TURNED ON ONE CONTESTED LEGAL QUESTION THAT DESERVES A CLOSER LOOK PART WAY THROUGH THE ENCOUNTER THE OFFICER WARNED THE SUBJECT SHE WOULD BE ARRESTED FOR OBSTRUCTION IF SHE REFUSED TO GIVE HER NAME THAT WARNING WAS ONLY PARTLY ACCURATE AND THE REASON WHY GOES STRAIGHT TO THE HEART OF SEARCH AND SEIZURE LAW hello hello ma'am uh what do you what do you have right there between your legs an unopened bottle of Esplanade OK and where did you get that at uh I got it from a friend I have also Suko okay um rum so so what did you just take out of the store at Walmart excuse me OK so they just called us and their loss prevention witnessed you and has you on video taking stuff out of the store OK taking what out of the store merchandise out of the store alright so I'm gonna have you yep so go ahead and set those down for me I'm gonna have you step out of the vehicle OK OK so all the all the produce all that kind of stuff on the floor over there where did that come from Aldi uh Aldi uh I'll get all the schnoops and this iPad for a day again unopened okay alright so go ahead and step out of the vehicle for me you can if you want you can roll the window up and and turn it off okay I'll I'll turn I have no alright do you wanna roll your window up we're gonna we're gonna step inside for a minute so that's why I'm allowing you to why are we stepping inside because we're gonna go see loss prevention how much have you had to drink me yes I haven't taken anything OK alright we're gonna step inside OK I'm I'm I'm it's not an option right now at this point we're gonna go inside OK so you can either walk in peacefully or we can walk you in there OK the reason that we are here is Walmart lost prevention called us and said that there are some items in here that you did not pay for that is why we're here I paid I stopped that is why we want to walk you in there and see what's going on uh no I'm from New York I'm not you know I have my I don't have my receipt I have my digital receipt if you guys want to see that instead you do have a digital receipt I do okay it's from my sister's card okay is it on your phone huh yes yes it is so hold on I've been here counting and budgeting and all of this stuff and now you guys just pulled me up I could have left like what's the problem well again we've already explained the problem is loss prevention is saying that there are some items that you did not pay for what items that's why we wanna go inside and talk to you we're gonna figure it out um no I would rather wait for my attorney my sister listen to OK I'd rather wait outside bring your supervisor everything so he is the supervisor you are the supervisor you are the supervisor so you witnessed me take things I do not like to say that OK that is what Walmart is that is what we are here investigating OK Walmart is the one the Walmart associates are the ones that are which Walmart associate because I we will gladly show you if you just walk in there with us no no I'm not walking in anywhere because I I have no I'm a behavioral analyst do you have your do you have your ID with you do I have my ID I have a New York State ID my Illinois ID is coming in next week okay can I have your New York State ID absolutely not okay can I get your name no I don't feel at this point you have to give us your name OK why you don't have a choice because you are the suspect of an investigation how am I a suspect let me finish if you refuse to give us your name you will be arrested for obstruction OK if I refuse to give you my name you are arresting me that is correct for that is correct for obstructing obstructing what you're obstructing your identification yes you're not telling us your name why would I need to tell you my name because we're investigating a crime right now and you are the suspect in the crime what's the crime I just told you the crime is retail theft that is a crime that we are investigating can you please tell me your name or give me your ID I can wait my sister lives no you cannot wait you were going to you can either this is the last time I'm gonna tell you you can either give us your name or you are going to be arrested arrested for what for obstructing a cop I'm giving you a lawful order to provide your name and your birthday and your identification we go part no alright okay and then what's your middle initial no middle initial I'm going into the car to get you just tell me your your birth year okay one 4 k 1:40 copy one last of common first of my birthday just passed my cousin just gave me some credits to get me some stuff so we can celebrate my early birthday all right oh Midwest do I yeah I think so or did he leave did he leave okay can I have your name please Jay Wolf what is your full first name please uh Officer Officer Yep Officer Wolf what is your full name please Officer Wolf B Lewis OK of Allen PD yes ma'am is this because of the sexual harassment I claimed uh across from the neighbor I have no idea what you're even talking about alright so it's an officer Voltron he did the whole thing I'm the only I'm gonna need to see your ID OK I don't have it you don't have your New York ID with you I have my New York ID did you try out in New York no I'm talking to somebody else thanks coffee I have my bad motherf*cking wallet give me one second yes it's expired but I just um went in for I went in for an Illinois license um I know I have like unregistered tags I have my whole thing I have not set I have one 40 copy one by file out of New York I'm sorry can I can I are you open for business OK do you remember I was gonna say do you remember where I technically assaulted an older guy and he had pictures of my sister and my niece okay alright just checking this this has to be I have the receipts I have my sister she can come down here she lives on so we don't need your sister but uh you said you have the receipts where and what what are the receipts for it's a digital receipt for the party for the party okay OK go train you you want this this I got at the gay station I guess I gotta get it uh this I got at the gay station everything is unopened I got this yogurt this is for me I you know stomach OK my my niece she's a vegan and a wonder bra okay so uh here's the deal do you have a receipt from Walmart from the information I have a receipt it was a refunded receipt my sister has it that's why I said my sister will come and bring the receipt I I exchanged it and then I walked out I'm cleaning my car and then you guys pull up I have no qualms about you doing your job like I get it I'm fine alright so at this point we need to go inside if if you're clear then we wanna clear this up and make sure I don't wanna go back inside I don't wanna go back inside simply because if a loss prevention person if it's the same guy or woman that was looking at my butt and making inappropriate comments then no I don't want to I'm from New York I don't need all right so what's the description of the person who was looking at you and making inappropriate comments both men and women well give me a description physical description medium black but I can't say black she was here she was mixed okay and there was look alright so so at this point uh we're we're gonna need to go in there OK I'm not I'm I'm I'm gonna tell you I'm not going back inside OK I have done nothing wrong I've lived here for nine months I have nothing I have a Walmart card and I have look okay and and I'm trying to be as nice and respectful as I possibly can and I appreciate that and I appreciate that from and I appreciate that from all like you excuse me okay and I appreciate that from all of you I am not a hot headed crazy y'all are just doing your job like it is fine but I have I have I nothing's open like I was oh I'm drinking like okay so well we'll get to that portion when we get to that portion right now I just kind of want to figure out what's going on here okay sure um so to make that a little bit easier if we could walk in there no and and talk to them no once I once I walk into that establishment with the stuff and then it doesn't matter with my cousin comes in with her um Mastercard and then does yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm why would your cousin have to come back with her Mastercard cousin sister my cousin you said cousin but I did say cousin I have a million cousins OK I have one sister that I live here OK alright so why would she need to come back with her master card what what's going on with that because I was using it on my phone OK sometimes like I'm from New York like sometimes it I got you I'll wait until y'all people come out with the footage y'all can confirm the footage and then I can go out here other than that I'm I'm I'm not going anywhere I didn't do anything wrong OK do you go by any other names what well I'm just asking do you go by any other names OK any other legal names that would be associated with your driver's license or anything like that OK no OK all right well we're gonna hang tight right here then okay uh my supervisor's inside getting video footage and seeing what's going on in there okay so here's the deal watch just watch the video okay it has you in the store picking out the alcohol right and then leaving the store without paying for a thing all on video that's what we're at so right now you are gonna be detained for retail theft okay so go ahead and turn around for me okay that's where we're at go ahead and turn around for me can I can I we'll we'll talk through everything here in just a second but go ahead I I need to put you in handcuffs okay okay alright so put your hands behind your back for me okay THE UNDERLYING DETENTION WAS LAWFUL UNDER TERRY VERSUS OHIO DECIDED IN 1968 SINCE A FIRST HAND LOSS PREVENTION REPORT GAVE OFFICERS REASONABLE SUSPICION REASONABLE SUSPICION PERMITS A BRIEF INVESTIGATIVE STOP AND NOTHING MORE THAN THAT THE HARDER QUESTION IS WHETHER SILENCE ABOUT ONE'S OWN NAME IS ITSELF A CRIME IN Hiibel v. THE SIXTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT COURT OF NEVADA DECIDED IN 2004 THE SUPREME COURT ALLOWED STATES TO COMPEL IDENTIFICATION DURING A LAWFUL STOP THAT RULING COMES WITH A CONDITION THE OFFICER NEVER MENTIONED ON CAMERA A STATE MAY ONLY COMPEL IDENTIFICATION IF IT IS PASSED A SPECIFIC STOP AND IDENTIFY STATUTE WITHOUT CONFIRMING SUCH A STATUTE APPLIED HERE CALLING REFUSAL AUTOMATIC OBSTRUCTION OVERSTATED THE LAW AS A NATIONWIDE RULE IN MOST STATES WITHOUT THAT KIND OF STATUTE SILENCE ALONE DURING A STOP IS NOT A SEPARATE CRIME EVEN WHERE SUCH STATUTES EXIST COURTS LIMIT THE COMPELLED DISCLOSURE TO A NAME NOT TO FURTHER EXPLANATION OR DOCUMENTS THAT DISTINCTION SEPARATES A LAWFUL ORDER FROM LEGAL BLUFFING AND IT MATTERS FOR HOW THE WARNING SHOULD BE JUDGED ORDERING THE SUBJECT OUT OF THE VEHICLE RESTED ON MUCH FIRMER LEGAL GROUND PENNSYLVANIA V. MIMMS DECIDED IN 1977 ALLOWS OFFICERS TO ORDER ANY OCCUPANT OUT OF A VEHICLE DURING A LAWFUL STOP WITHOUT EXTRA JUSTIFICATION NO MIRANDA WARNING WAS GIVEN AND AT THAT STAGE NONE WAS CLEARLY REQUIRED MIRANDA PROTECTIONS ATTACHED TO CUSTODIAL INTERROGATION NOT TO ROUTINE QUESTIONS ASKED DURING A TERRY STOP PENNSYLVANIA V. MUNIZ DECIDED IN 1990 TREATED BASIC IDENTIFICATION QUESTIONS AS GENERALLY OUTSIDE MIRANDA'S REACH A RELATED QUESTION IS WHETHER A REASONABLE PERSON THREATENED WITH ARREST FOR SILENCE WOULD STILL FEEL FREE TO LEAVE FLORIDA V. BOSTICK DECIDED IN 1991 ASKS EXACTLY THAT QUESTION WHEN COURTS DECIDE IF AN ENCOUNTER HAS BECOME A FULL SEIZURE UNDER THAT STANDARD THE OFFICER'S WARNING LIKELY CONVERTED THIS STOP INTO A SEIZURE WELL BEFORE ANY FORMAL ARREST OCCURRED ONCE OFFICERS REVIEWED STORE VIDEO CONFIRMING THE THEFT THE LEGAL STANDARD SHIFTED FROM REASONABLE SUSPICION TO PROBABLE CAUSE THAT SHIFT NOT THE EARLIER REFUSAL TO GIVE A NAME IS WHAT FINALLY JUSTIFIED THE CUSTODIAL ARREST THE SUBJECT'S OWN SHIFTING EXPLANATIONS FOR THE SAME ITEMS CARRY SEPARATE LEGAL WEIGHT APART FROM ANY MIRANDA QUESTION VOLUNTARY UNCOERCED STATEMENTS ARE GENERALLY ADMISSIBLE AND INCONSISTENCY BETWEEN THEM CAN LATER BE USED TO CHALLENGE CREDIBILITY THAT INCONSISTENCY HOWEVER NEVER CREATED A SEPARATE CRIMINAL OBSTRUCTION CHARGE ON ITS OWN what that's all right if you sit back I'm I'm gonna no no go ahead go ahead go ahead no you Gucci just you know this is also I'll see my phone real quick Jesus Christ I've been in the back of this sh*t since I was 17 alright I'm gonna turn up the air real quick okay just so you get some air back there and you don't get too hot okay GRADING THE ENCOUNTER THE OFFICER EARNS A B- THE DETENTION ITSELF WAS WELL SUPPORTED BUT THE STATED LEGAL BASIS FOR COMPELLING A NAME WAS INACCURATE AS DELIVERED THE OFFICER'S CALM REPEATED EXPLANATION OF THE THEFT ALLEGATION STANDS OUT AS A GENUINE STRENGTH THE SUBJECT EARNS A C SHE HAD EVERY RIGHT TO STAY SILENT YET HER OWN SHIFTING EXPLANATIONS UNDERCUT HER POSITION MORE THAN THE OFFICER'S CONDUCT DID HER DECISION NOT TO PHYSICALLY RESIST DURING HANDCUFFING WAS A SMART LEGALLY SOUND CHOICE TWO LESSONS STAND OUT FROM THIS ENCOUNTER FIRST OFFICERS SHOULD NAME THE SPECIFIC LAW THEY RELY ON RATHER THAN INVOKING OBSTRUCTION AS A GENERAL THREAT SECOND THE SAFEST RESPONSE TO POLICE QUESTIONING DURING A STOP IS OFTEN SILENCE PAIRED WITH A REQUEST FOR COUNSEL LET US KNOW IF THERE IS AN INTERACTION OR LEGAL TOPIC YOU WOULD LIKE DISCUSSED IN THE COMMENTS BELOW THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND DON'T FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE ANALYSIS OF POLICE AND COURT INTERACTIONS