Why are you doing this? Because you are not you're not working with us. >> Don't grab me. What the [ __ ] are you doing? >> We're good. We're good. >> Let go of my foot. >> Up just a second later and rushes at the [music] suspect, hitting him into the door and grabbing his head. >> Just 48 hours before allegedly stabbing her manager to death inside of a Detroit McDonald's, Aaney Muhammad posted that very angry Instagram rant. you know, disrespecting people, talking to them like everybody's beneath her. Have to stop. She's a bully. >> She got shot. >> This is the problem with guns for you. I'm sorry. People having guns with >> this Georgia Chick-fil-A worker is serving up more than nuggets and waffle [music] fries when an armed robber tries to hold up the fast food restaurant. So, here's the scene. It happened in Gwynette County, Georgia at about 4:30 in [music] the morning. Security camera video gets this all on tape showing the worker lead a masked gunman [music] into the back room. Just a quick side note here, it turns out this worker was just a delivery guy who happened to be making a drop off at the wrong place at the wrong time. He says the gunman smashed through the Chick-fil-A drive-thru window [music] and held the worker at gunpoint. And pretty soon it was clear he was after the money. At this point we see the delivery man shrug because he doesn't know the combination to the safe. In response the suspect points the gun [music] right in his face. So he leads the robber into the office. All this is caught on another security camera recording from inside the office. [music] And from the moment they get inside the office, things are tense. [music] The suspect pushes the worker through the door and points toward the back of the room. There's no audio, so we can't be sure what the worker is saying, but he's likely [music] saying he doesn't know the safe's combo. The gunman points his finger directly in the worker's face, [music] and you can see him shrug in response. The conversation continues, and the gunman starts using the gun in his right hand to point. Here's where things really heat up. The suspect points his handgun directly in the delivery man's face, and he simply is not having it. He slaps the gun away from the suspect and pushes him back into the other room. Here's that push from another angle, showing the worker's intense response to the suspect pointing the gun in his face. [music] The worker comes at the suspect full force and even falls to the ground in the process. But he gets up just a second later and rushes [music] at the suspect, hitting him into the door and grabbing his head. You can see the suspect's hat fall to the ground. The suspect fights [music] back, but it's the worker who gets the next big win, elbowing the suspect in the face. [music] They're in a bear hug before the suspect starts smacking the worker, hitting his head with the gun. In all this [music] commotion, things fall off the nearby shelves and the gun drops from the suspect's hands. [music] They're up against the wall now and the worker covers up the suspect's eyes. The suspect keeps fighting back, but you can tell [music] he's getting tired. Things slow down for a moment here until the worker gets a second [music] wind and pushes the suspect. Up next, they're getting tangled in some jackets [music] hanging on the wall before they are hand in hand pushing at each other. But the gunman gains some ground on the worker here, overpowering him just enough [music] to push the worker back into the office. So, now we're back into the office camp. You can see the door being pushed open and just a second later, the gunman is choking the worker. With full force, the worker pushes through the door and they're both inside the office now. The suspect is on top of the worker for a second, but not for long. It looks like he's about to slam the door in the suspect's face, but he's not quite done fighting [music] yet. Switching back to the other cam now. The worker pushes the suspect, walking him backwards into the [music] other room. The dance continues here. Both men hands in hand in a struggle until the gunman pushes the worker into the wall. It seems like they're almost catching their breath for a second here, but then the suspect has his hand around the worker's throat. The worker pushes back and the pair goes offcreen just for a second before we see the suspect once again. We can only see the gunman [music] here struggling with the worker who's still off camp. The employee pops his head back into frame for a split second before he's off cam again and the fight continues. In the midst of this altercation, the office door is pushed open and a second later, the pair is back inside. So, here's another look at the office cam. We see the door fly open before the worker crashes inside. [music] The next thing you know, he's going after the suspect again and drags him into the office, pushing him [music] against the desk. They're in a tangle now, almost like another bear hug as they both struggle to gain control over the other. And just like that, they're back in the other room. The new angle shows the suspect and worker in the bottom right corner of the screen for several seconds. That is until the gunman crouches down to pick up a glove that he dropped during all the commotion. You can see the gunman's left hand grabbing on the worker's shirt, but the worker does not back down. When the gunman falls, the worker picks him straight back [music] up and eventually starts to push him across the floor. You can actually see the suspect sliding across the tile. Now, the gunman falls and the worker quickly pushes him into the door. He then picks up the fallen gun off the ground and tries to fight back as the worker attempts to block his view by covering his eyes. [music] They're still entangled here and begins spinning in circles. That's when the gunman drops his glove, the one he just worked so hard to pick up. Things slow down for just a [music] second until the gunman gets a burst of energy and pushes the worker backwards. They go off cam once again, but the dance carries on. Suddenly, they're [music] back in frame. The gunman walks to the door, but the worker simply won't let go. The struggle continues as the worker puts his hands up to keep the gunman back. The next thing you know, the suspect reaches for the door as the worker grabs his wrist. The gunman walks backward through the door and the worker follows, still defending himself. This next part isn't caught on camera, but the suspect runs off and the worker calls 911. Just 48 hours before allegedly stabbing her manager to death inside of a Detroit McDonald's, Aeny Muhammad posted that very angry Instagram rant. And now that video is at the center of a murder case that [music] prosecutors say was premeditated and hauntingly foreshadowed. Okay. Just 2 days before she allegedly stabbed her manager to death, a feainy Muhammad posted this furious Instagram video seething about being sent home early for the second day in a row. >> I got sent home earlier yesterday. I got sent home early today by the same person. I'm telling you, she's a bully. This isn't funny. She needs to understand that just because she's a mother and got children doesn't mean that she can come in in this store, you know, disrespecting people, talking to them like everybody's beneath her. Going to have to stop. She's a bully. I'm telling you, she's a bully. >> And that was followed by what could be perceived as a foreoding warning. >> She could keep being a bully if she wants to, but that is going to catch up to her cuz it ain't funny at all. It ain't. Now, by Thursday, July 10th, 2025, those words became a horrifying reality because the 26-year-old is now accused of ambushing her manager, 39-year-old Jennifer Harris, at the 9mm Road McDonald's in Detroit, stabbing her up to 15 times with a kitchen knife in a brutal attack that prosecutors are saying is a premeditated murder. We're going to start from the top. We're going to take you through how all of this apparent violence unfolded. This was just before 8:00 a.m. on July 10th. Jennifer Harris, this longtime manager at the East Point McDonald's, sent Afainy Muhammad home early following this heated argument that detectives say was sparked by Baham not performing her work duties. Now, Muhammad did go home, but not before reportedly saying to Harris, "I'll be back." And apparently she wasn't lying because after being dismissed, police say they alleged that Muhammad drove to a nearby park. But instead of cooling off, she made a fateful decision. Allegedly retrieving a kitchen knife from her car, Muhammad returned to the quick service chain. But this time, prosecutors say she wore a hooded mask over her face to conceal her identity, slipped through the back employee entrance, and what happened next, according to prosecutors, was nothing short of savage. Muhammad allegedly ambushed Harris, stabbing her repeatedly in a frenzied attack. Co-workers scrambled to help Harris, but the damage was too severe. She was rushed to a hospital, and sadly, she later succumbed to her injuries. Such a sad case, such a disturbing case. I want to bring in right now Eric Fattis, criminal defense attorney, friend of the show. Eric, good to see you. Thanks so much for coming back here on Sidebar. Uh Eric, you know, first of all, what is your reaction to this progression of events? I mean, it's not every day that you have an Instagram post that allegedly is foreseeing what is about to happen. Now, we'll talk more about the Instagram post, but this is this is a savage attack. And the government feels confident they know who did it. >> Just a horrific set of circumstances here. And really what the record kind of shows is a buildup, an escalation, things that are um getting worse over time. This animosity is growing. Uh and and you know uh Muhammad didn't do herself any favors with that Instagram video and then later um allegedly went into the store and just slaughtered uh Harris with a knife uh in the most brutal fashion. >> Do you see workrelated killings often? I mean we I talk about all the time about relationships and domestic violence but do you see uh a lot of work rellated violent attacks, homicides um often in your line of work? >> You know Jesse, it's not terribly uncommon. you know, the the work environment can be a stressful environment. Sometimes you're working with somebody who's not your best buddy and um you know, over time those tensions can build and and become very problematic. People's livelihoods are on the line. Uh it it it is uh you know, really a high stress environment that can lead to these kinds of events. So now let's take a closer look at that pivotal piece of evidence in this case, the Instagram video posted to Afaney Muhammad's account just two days before the stabbing on July 8th. And in it, Muhammad appears visibly upset, venting about a workplace conflict. >> But to get sent home two days in a row, man, and I came in on my off day to make up my time and she still sends me home early, it's not funny. Now, Muhammad continues directly accusing her supervisor, Harris, of creating a toxic environment and retaliating against her. >> She brings a lot of negative energy in there. You know, nobody's perfect. It's happens. You know what I mean? Like sometimes like somebody might get confused. So, it gets busy. Yeah. But she need to stop playing like she like she don't make mistakes. I be catching her. I be catching her. >> Now, the video ends with what might be proven to be chilling foreshadowing of what was to come. Somebody going to have to do something about that. It's not funny. It's not fair. It isn't funny at all. So, you know, she could keep being a bully if she wants to, but that is going to catch up to her cuz it ain't funny at all. It ain't. >> Now, Eric, you know, I wonder if the defense is going to say she was angry. She was venting on social media. If she was really planning to kill her manager, why would she post something like this for the world to see? I mean, that doesn't seem too too brilliant. Um, is that a possible defense argument? >> You know, um, sometimes criminals don't make the smartest choices. Uh, this, especially with the emergence of social media and everyone kind of having a a quasi public life now who's on social media, um, these things come out and and people don't really think much of it and don't think how it could, uh, impair uh, parts of their life going forward. And so, um, you know, she's on there venting, but clearly there is some hostility against Harris that is coming through. Um, and those haunting words th those those are so ominous looking back at now what happened where she says she can keep being a bully if she wants to, but that's going to catch up with her that the prosecution is going to say is premeditation. That's exhibit one. One thing we haven't talked about yet, and there's actually a lot we have to talk about, but one thing we haven't talked about yet is that amid the horror of what unfolded. There is an unexpected figure in this story who's being hailed a hero. You see, according to police, a customer who was waiting in the McDonald's drive-thru heard this commotion inside, happened to be legally carrying a firearm. Acting quickly, he fired a warning shot, which caused Muhammad, or allegedly Muhammad, to drop the knife, flee the restaurant. The customer then followed her, held her apparently at gunpoint in the parking lot until police arrived. Again, potentially preventing further bloodshed. Eric, if this is all true, my gosh. Right. I mean, you have to wonder what could have escalated. >> Oh gosh. You know, you have someone who is capable and willing to just go stab their manager up to 15 times with a kitchen knife. What else is she capable of? you know, she was in a escalated state at that point, heightened emotions. Who knows what else she would have done had she gotten away, allegedly. Uh, and so, yes, this this gentleman intervening, I think, could have really spared future bloodshed potentially. >> So, then you go to Friday, July 11th, and Muhammad stood before Judge Kathleen Galen, charged with firstdegree murder and carrying a dangerous weapon with unlawful intent. And during her arraignment, East Point Detective Brian Showers took the stand to read what's known as a swear to, which is our understanding this is a sworn statement outlining the facts that he believes establish probable cause for a feainy Muhammad's arrest and justify the warrant that was issued against her. And he began by recounting a critical admission or alleged admission that Muhammad made following her arrest. Prior to the stabbing, Muhammad was sent home by Harris for not performing her work duties and told Harris, "I'll be back." Muhammad was arrested on scene and the knife was recovered. Muhammad admitted that she intended to kill Harris and stated that after she was sent home, uh, she drove to a nearby park, decided to come back and stab Harris with a knife that she had inside of her vehicle. When Muhammad returned to stab Harris, she entered the back entrance with a hooded mask over her face in an attempt to conceal her identity and attempted to flee the scene after the stabbing, but was stopped by an armed customer. >> So, after Detective Shower's testimony, the arraignment proceeded in typical fashion with both sides arguing over bond. And Muhammad's defense attorney cited a history of trauma and abuse and asking the court to consider a reasonable bond. She was in a extremely abusive uh relationship that was not only mental but physical uh that involved uh alcohol issues which is where the habitual second stems from and her prior record. But at this time your honor uh we are asking the court to consider a bond in this manner that is appropriate that my client can meet uh so that she can meet with her attorneys and prepare her for defense in this matter. But prosecutors, they quickly pushed back and they argued that the nature of the crime left no room for mitigation. >> She entered a public building with other individuals, other employees that were present. Uh she produced a uh a weapon that was a knife longer than 3 in. And she stabbed the victim multiple times up to possibly as many as 15 times, eventually causing her death. She then ran from the building uh to her vehicle presumably with the intent to flee from the scene. She was stopped by a helpful bystander. >> Eric, how does it work in terms of bond? I mean, is it just looking at the horrific allegations and the nature of the crime or does a judge consider what are potentially mitigating factors at this point? >> So, the judge has a lot to consider in deciding what the bond is going to be. The two primary factors are whether the defendant presents a danger to society and whether she presents a flight risk that she might leave the jurisdiction and and never come back. However, the judge can surely consider the fact that the defendant is presumed innocent and and under the constitution is guaranteed a right to bail for most charges. Um here the judge in looking at it uh essentially concluded that hey this person is dangerous and and in fact there's allegedly a prior uh weapons issue in her background. And so the judge ultimately imposed a bond of $25 million cash assurity. No chance Muhammad is going to meet that. She will be in custody during the pendency of this first-degree murder case. >> Yeah, you're right. Because then came an even more disturbing revelation. Prosecutors disclosed in open court that Muhammad had a previous incident involving a stabbing. >> And then finally, the defendant does have a prior instance of at least one that I'm aware that involved a stabbing uh similar obviously to the stabbing that occurred in this case involving a knife. Um so given all of those factors uh and given the fact that this court does have authority to uh give no bond to defendants charged with murder, I am asking at this time for no bond in this case. >> Okay. So, according to outlet Detroit News, Muhammad was convicted in Virginia in March of 2022 of one count of unlawful injury by stabbing, wounding, or cutting without malicious intent. And at that time, she received a suspended sentence per Detroit News of four years in prison and served one year of probation instead. Now, Eric, given what she is accused of doing here, ah, hindsight's 2020, but do you question that sentence? Do you did I mean and also how does that prior incident affect her current legal predicament? >> Sure. So the judge in the uh prior case, you know, of course didn't have a crystal ball, couldn't uh necessarily foresee Muhammad going in and and stabbing up her coworker up to 15 times. That being said, it it sort of shows a pattern of conduct that includes weapons, a specific weapon, a blade uh that that that Muhammad allegedly um thrust into the body of of Harris, her manager. And so that's an aggravating factor. Surely the prosecution is going to look at that and say, "Hey, even if there was some mitigation, even if there was some prior trauma, prior substance issues, that is vastly outweighed by the danger that this person allegedly poses to the community. And and I think the prosecution is going to going to take a real heavy-handed approach to this case. >> But at trial, can they introduce that prior uh that prior conviction or is there a prior bad act that wouldn't be allowed? ought to be too prejuditial. >> You know, that'll be ultimately up to the judge. The judge will have to weigh, hey, is this prior act relevant to some kind of trait or factor on behalf of the defendant like state of mind, like intent, like motus operande, like like you know, the way in which she has committed crimes before. But my guess is the judge is going to say, "Hey, this prior stabbing that was unrelated in an entirely different state is just too overly prejuditial. The concern is the is the jury would sort of hold that against her and and find guilt on the new case because of that. >> If she testifies though, they can use it against her. >> If she testifies, it could surely come up. There is a reasonable likelihood that she could open the door through her testimony. Uh, you know, if she gets up there and says, "Hey, look, I'm I'm generally a peaceful person, whatever." Um, the prosecution can say, "Hey, wait a sec. Peaceful person. What about this prior um weapons charge involving a knife from two to three years ago? So, yes, that that could be a damning revelation at trial. >> You mentioned this before. In the end, the judge in Detroit set Muhammad's bond at $25 million. There are strict conditions, GPS monitoring, a no contact order with the victim's family. That all makes sense. 25 million though, why not just issue no bond? I mean, it seems unlikely, unless you're, I don't know, Jeff Bezos, that almost anyone could make a $25 million bond. Why even set a bond that high and just say no bond? >> It's kind of uh going through the motions of issuing a bond without really issuing a bond. You know, when when when a judge issues no bond, some folks get up in arms, especially the defense community, saying, "Hey, uh the Constitution grants a right to reasonable bail. You're not even giving this person a shot." So, the judge sort of sidesteps that potential criticism by saying, "No, no, I gave a bond, but it's $25 million." >> By the way, I'm not saying that she the bond should be lowered. I mean, given what she is accused of doing, this is a heinous, heinous attack. I'm just wondering whether there should be no bond. Now, according to court records, talking about the legal case, Muhammad has a probable cause conference set for July 23rd, a preliminary examination on the 30th. What should we be looking out for there? So, at those proceedings, the prosecution is really going to lay out their evidence that they believe shows probable cause that Muhammad committed this allegedly horrendous act. Uh that they will likely call witnesses, including detectives, possibly even co-workers from from the McDonald's to discuss uh kind of the dispute that had been building and escalating in this case. the judge will determine whether there's probable cause to uh have the trial or excuse me to to uh make sure the charge stands and and and h and have the case proceed to trial. Uh based on the reports so far, it's looking pretty strong that that there is probable cause here. It's a relatively low standard. >> Is there anything the defense can do to to try to I mean it doesn't seem to me they can do anything to prevent this from going forward? The evidence feels quite substantial at this stage to proceed to trial. We can have a discussion about whether or not it's strong enough to prove beyond the reasonable doubt. Probably is. But at this point, is there anything they can do to try to get this case stopped now or no? >> Stopped? Probably not. Mitigated, possibly. You know, defense should should really engage in a strong mitigation campaign that'll likely involve a mental health examination. It'll likely involve interviewing people in Ms. Muhammad's life regarding past trauma, regarding substance issues, that kind of thing to show a sort of a more holistic view of who Muhammad is and not just, you know, the sort of narrow snapshot we see from this allegedly heinous act. >> Is there room for a plea deal and what would a plea look like? I mean, in the sense if we make the argument that the evidence against her is substantial. So whether you know the witness testimony or her alleged statements, what have you, her Instagram video, what have you, um the physical evidence, do is there room to negotiate a plea and what would it look like given these allegations and this level of attack? >> So [clears throat] that's going to depend in part on the prosecutor and how the prosecutor sees the case. They are typically in charge of extending a plea offer or not. Like you mentioned, there's that aggravating factor of that prior instance regarding a knife in a different state. That's going to be a problem. That being said, there's almost always some room to develop a mitigation packet on behalf of defense, submit it to the prosecutor, and say, "Hey, instead of dragging everybody's families through the trauma and and crucible of a trial, um how about we agree on something slightly lesser than than what she's facing and uh hopefully make it out of this with some sort of satisfactory resolution. We always talk so much about the defendant in these cases because of the legal consequences and the legal case, but let's just go back to the victim. So, Harris's family is in mourning. The McDonald's remains closed. A GoFundMe has been launched by Harris's family to help support her children. And according to prosecutors, she was a mother of six. She had worked at that McDonald's for 15 years. And part of the GoFundMe reads, "Through this fund, Jennifer's legacy of strength, compassion, and dedication will continue to guide and uplift her children. Resources from the trust will be used to support their educational journeys from early learning through higher education, as well as their overall well-being and personal development as they grow into adulthood. The Jennifer Harris Legacy Fund is a reflection of her lifelong commitment to family opportunity, and the belief in a bright future. It ensures that her children are surrounded by the care, guidance, and support they need to thrive and that her spirit will continue to shape their lives for years to come. You know, Eric, sometimes we get lost in the fact of the legal points and the legal case that you think about the family that's left behind in such a brutal attack. And for them to make sense of this, this in a way it's a start of a whole new journey. They have to grapple with this loss and now they have to go through the legal case which can be quite difficult for them particularly if the defense is going to be raising certain uh you know points of defense that obviously they may not agree with and that might be difficult for them. What should they be thinking moving forward now? >> Yeah, they are going to have a long road here. Uh, you know, I watched one of the interviews with one of the children and she said, "Hey, my mom died providing for her kids going to going to work every day trying to make a better life for them." Um, these uh victims families are going to have some say in the legal process. They're going to have some input into whether there's a plea or not. Now, the defense has sort of cast Miss Harris as a bully. And I think that there's probably going to be more of that. There's probably going to be more allegations that the alleged victim was, you know, a heavy-handed boss and mistreated her employees, whether that's true or not. And so, it's going to be painful and and and probably unsatisfying at the end. Nothing through the legal process will bring their mother back. >> Eric Fattis, thank you so much for taking the time. Difficult case, but uh always appreciate your insight. Thank you so much. That woman, Aeny Muhammad, was back in court on July 23rd for what was supposed to be a probable cause conference. And when asked to state her name for the record, she apparently introduced herself with a different declaration. >> Your honor Josh on behalf of Missur, but I also go by raising Phoenix. >> Now, the 26-year-old appeared before a judge in Michigan's Mcome County for a probable cause hearing in connection with the fatal stabbing of her manager, 39-year-old Jennifer Harris. And this was at the McDonald's on Nine Mile Road in East Point. And as police confirmed, Risen Phoenix is Muhammad's Instagram handle, the same account where she posted two videos days before the killing venting about Harris sending her home early. And we're going to play more of that in a minute. But first, here is what we learned from the court. So, probable cause hearings in Michigan is usually where bail, a plea negotiation, stipulations, other procedural aspects, those are all discussed. It's not exactly what happened here. The hearing ultimately ended up being adjourned after Muhammad's defense attorney requested a competency evaluation citing concerns about her mental state and this was based both on police reports and his own interactions with her. >> You're asking that this matter be addressed for discovery number one and number two. You want it referred to the forensic center for competency and culpability. Is that correct? >> Yes, your honor. Council does request at this time that Muham be referred to the sens herself personally objects to the referral at this >> what [snorts] is the um the actual basis that you rely on for the referral based upon my observations of the case um and in um reviewing the case um specifically the police reports um my observations and interacting um with Muhammad I need to check those two boxes meaning I need to make sure that one she is confident and then two that there's not an issue in regards to responsibility or culability >> now here's something interesting Muhammad the defendant reportedly objected to this referral but the judge approved it nonetheless so now she's going to undergo a mental health evaluation which our understanding can typically take four to 6 weeks no further court action is going going to proceed until that report is returned. Lot to talk about. I want to bring on forensic psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Bober uh to discuss this. Doctor, thanks so much for coming back here on Sidebar. Appreciate it. >> Thanks for having me, Jesse. >> What are the specific indicators that a forensic psychiatrist would look for to determine whether a defendant, a criminal defendant like like a Feainy Muhammad, whether or not she's competent to stand trial? Because competency is a very specific definition. It's not insanity. Right. So competency is a moving target. You know, someone can be competent one week and they can be incompetent the next week. So in the United States, competency is determined by a US Supreme Court case, USV Dusky. And essentially what that case says is that you have to have the ability to work with your attorney to collaborate with them and have a rational and factual understanding of the charges against you. So that is the competency standard in the US. But generally speaking, is it I have no idea what I'm doing here. I have no idea what these charges mean. I have no idea what I did wrong. Is that typically what you see in an evaluation that raises a concern of competency? >> As a general principle, yes, absolutely. >> And what what could be the reasons for a lack of competency? >> So, there are so many different reasons. Uh, I watched the Instagram video that she had posted prior to the incident and you clearly have someone who has poor impulse control, is emotionally disregulated, has escalating anger, repeated frustration, feels powerless over her situation, and, you know, feels that she's being subjected to this perceived injustice. There are so many different things here in the differential and obviously I've never examined her so I can't make a diagnosis but I think about things like psychosis, a personality disorder, substance use perhaps repeated exposure to trauma and I believe there was a prior incident of a stabbing that she was associated with. I don't know that for certain but so we have someone who where there was a history of violence prior to the incident. How common is it for defense attorneys to request these competency evaluations based on their own observations? It'd be one thing if there was a police report, right, or um you know, from another mental health professional, but based on their own observations. Is that unusual to you? >> No, it's not. Uh the court can request it, the defense attorney can request it. Um it it is interesting that she didn't want the evaluation. I almost feel like, you know, she doesn't want to be perceived as mentally ill or crazy, but there were a lot of very concerning things that happened prior to this and it seems like it was something that was building over time. >> The fact that she reportedly objected to it, like you said, doesn't really factor into the process. I mean, does it suggest anything diagnostically? >> Not necessarily. Not one thing or the other. Uh but again, the fact that her attorney requested it to me leads me to believe that her attorney was seeing something that was concerning that required a further assessment. Can someone, let's be clear about this, someone can still be found to be competent to stand trial, but they can still raise a mental health defense, right? They can still uh maybe put forward an insanity defense if the jurisdiction allows that and it affects their culpability in some way, right? That this doesn't preclude that. two separate things. Yes, someone can still raise an insanity defense. That's completely separate. Now, in this particular case, you know, someone can be mentally ill and still be competent. So, mental illness per se does not mean incompetent. It's a specific evaluation. >> The fact that she wanted to be referred to this by this other name, you know, we can get into the idea of multiple names, multiple identities. Did that suggest anything to you? >> I think about delusions. I think about psychosis when I hear something like that. But again, there's just so much information that we would need. For example, was she treated for a prior mental health condition? Was she under the care of a psychiatrist? These are things I'd want to know. Talk to people that were around her in the hours and days prior to the incident. Those are all important things. And moreover, as we talk about what this case might look like, and we don't really know if a mental health defense would be uh presented or not, but from a forensic psychiatrist point of view, how do they distinguish between anger or a personality disorder or a break from reality? Uh is it a mixture of a bunch of different factors? What should we be looking out for? >> So, those are not necessarily mutually exclusive. For example, someone can have a psychiatric disorder. They can also have a personality disorder. They can have both. But a personality disorder is usually a pervasive pattern of behavior that affects them in multiple domains of functioning. And they can also have an organic psychiatric condition like psychosis where they're literally detached from reality and they're having paranoia, they're having hallucinations, they're having delusions. So you can have all of those things together. Uh, but they obviously require um you to sort of parse things apart to to figure out what is causing what. >> Let me go back to Muhammad's Instagram and the declaration that she made there. So on her account, official Risen Phoenix where she has more than 24,000 followers. Muhammad posted two videos just days before the stabbing ranting about her manager Jennifer Harris sending her home early. And in one of the clips, wearing her McDonald's hat, Muhammad sees with frustration. >> I got sent home early yesterday. I got sent home early today by the same person. I'm telling you, she's a bully. This isn't funny. She needs to understand that just because she's a mother and got children doesn't mean that she can come in in this store, you know, disrespecting people, talking to them like everybody's beneath her. She has no respect and it isn't funny at all. She she brings a lot of negative energy in there. She always panic when when there's a lot going on and then she tried to manipulate that and make it seem like we ain't doing something right. But we are working really hard and doing great. It's just the fact that she panic and I caught her a few times making a mistake and she tried to hurry up and play it off. You know, nobody's perfect. It's happens. You know what I mean? Like sometimes like somebody might get confused. So it gets busy. Yeah. But she need to stop playing like she like she don't be making mistakes. I be catching her. I be catching her. And then she delivers what now could arguably sound like an ominous warning. >> But to get sent home two days in a row, man, and I came in on my off day to make up my time and she still sends me home early. It's not funny. Somebody going to have to do something about that. It's not funny. It's not fair. It isn't funny at all. So, you know, she could keep being a bully if she want to, but that is going to catch up to her cuz it ain't funny at all. It ain't. Two days later, prosecutors say that's exactly what happened. Now, if you haven't been following the case, here's what police say went down. Jennifer Harris, longtime McDonald's employee, mother of six, reportedly sent Muhammad home early on July 10th following a workplace dispute. Okay, before leaving, Muhammad allegedly told Harris she'd be back and she wasn't bluffing. At least according to police. Because according to them, Muhammad drove to a nearby park, retrieved a knife from her car, returned to the restaurant wearing a hooded mask to conceal her identity. She allegedly entered through the back, ambushed Harris, and stabbed her up to 15 times in front of co-workers. You have a legally armed customer in the drive-thru who heard the commotion, fired a warning shot into the air, caused Muhammad to allegedly drop the knife and flee. The witness apparently chases her down, holds her at gunpoint until police arrived. In fact, here's how East Point police described it on Facebook. The employee returned a short time later armed with a knife. The employee proceeded to stab the victim whom she had the prior dispute with. A customer who witnessed the assault, fired a shot to stop the attack. No one was struck by the bullet. The suspect attempted to flee the scene, but was detained by the witness. East Point officers arrived a short time later and took the suspect into custody. The victim was rushed to a local hospital where she passed away from her wounds. So, Muhammad now faces charges of firstdegree murder, carrying a dangerous weapon with unlawful intent. Dr. Bober, from your perspective, what could be the tone and the content of those Instagram posts? What does that reveal potentially about her mental state leading up to the days of this attack, assuming she did it, right? Because she is innocent until proven guilty, >> right? So, it was really an angry rant where she was venting out all her frustrations about the way she was treated. And if you listen to the Instagram post, she says basically, and I'm paraphrasing, that someone is going to do something about this. So, there really was a leadup to this, if in fact she did it. And it does seem premeditated. We know that she went to the park, she returned to the McDonald's to stab her manager if again it occurred. And she was wearing a mask. So there does seem to be premeditation. There does seem to be acts at concealing the crime. Um so all these things would be important to know. >> Concealing the allegedly concealing her identity. Does that doesn't that defeat a potential insanity defense because she know the argument would be she knows what she's doing is illegal. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Definitely works against that. Um, it definitely shows that she targeted her manager, that she planned it, that she tried to conceal her identity. All this plays into it. >> Again, taking all of this is true. If someone feels disrespected or someone feels they're bullied, what does that trigger exactly? Does it trigger an anger anger response? Does it trigger, again, if we're talking about mental health, a delusion, paranoia, those alleged slights? How does that factor into the analysis? >> So, listen, it really depends. You know, we as human beings in society, we probably get treated poorly at times and we feel slighted. But, you know, if we have ego strength and we have self-esteem and we are able to emotionally regulate ourselves, then we just move on. But for people who are suffering from mental illness, who have a low frustration tolerance, who have paranoia, who see the world through a distorted lens, who feel humiliated, those are people that may act out with rage or aggression. >> In the 15 times, what does that tell you? >> That tells me that it was very, very uplo and personal, that she was filled with rage, that it just boiled over and it just exploded, and that she was completely unable to exercise restraint at that point. >> You go to Muhammad's arraignment July 11th. So, her defense team argued for Bond, revealing that she had this history of trauma and abuse. >> She was in extremely abusive uh relationship that was not only mental but physical uh that involved uh alcohol issues, which is where the habitual second stems from and her prior record. >> But prosecutors, they quickly pushed back and they dropped a major revelation that Muhammad had a previous stabbing conviction. And then finally, the defendant does have a prior instance of at least one that I'm aware that involved a stabbing uh similar obviously to the stabbing that occurred in this case involving a knife. Um so given all of those factors uh and given the fact that this court does have authority to uh give no bond to defendants charged with murder, I am asking at this time for no bond in this case. Yeah, it turns out according to the Mcome County Assistant prosecutor that in March of 2022, Muhammad had plead guilty in Virginia to unlawful wounding without malicious intent. She was sentenced to 4 years, but the sentence was suspended and she served only probation. Now, the judge in the current case ultimately did grant her bond tune of $25 million along with a long list of strict conditions should she be released. Those include wearing a steel cut GPS tether, remaining in Michigan, reporting any address changes within 24 hours, submitting to daily check-ins with community corrections, undergoing alcohol and drug testing, having no contact with Jennifer Harris's family or any witnesses, and staying away from the crime scene, the McDonald's location where all this occurred. And according to inmate records, it appears she is still behind bars at the Mcome County Jail. Dr. Boowbert, let me turn to you on this. So, how does a history or an apparent history of trauma and abuse, both mental and physical, if we're listening to what the defense had to say, how does that typically impact an individual's mental health or behavior? So, when we talk about previous trauma, we're talking about the part of the brain called the amygdala. The amydala is the part of the brain that is responsible for a fear and aggression response. And people who have trauma sometimes this area of the brain can be overactive and it responds in a very primal way. So people who have a trauma history who are exposed or triggered to certain situations may act in a way that is irrational because of that prior trauma. The trauma affects them and sets them up for this in the future. So that is something to consider in her diagnosis uh and in looking at how she's charged with the crime. And I got to say, I'm amazed by this Virginia conviction, right? We could talk legally about why she was out, how she was out, what the rules are there. But the point is from a a forensic psych psychiatric perspective, you know, how might Muhammad's prior stabbing conviction, uh, which is just so eerily similar to what she's accused of now. Um, how does that factor into the analysis? Because you're talking about an alleged repeat offender. Well, it certainly increases her risk for future violence uh having a prior incident and now this incident. But it begs the question, was there some underlying condition that was untreated? Uh did she never receive the services that it seems like she needed to treat this condition? So there needs to be a firm diagnosis. There needs to be treatment and all this plays into it along with the competency evaluation. >> Dr. Dr. Bober, I want to explore some other psychological aspects of this case because we did a deep dive into Afaney Muhammad's Instagram and Tik Tok accounts and we came across some very deeply disturbing and unsettling content. For example, in one Tik Tok video, Muhammad is seen holding two boxes of Play-Doh doing absolutely nothing except staring at them in complete silence for a full minute. There's no explanation. There's no context. just blank staring. But it gets even stranger. So in this clip, she's seen brandishing a knife, then kissing it. And this was also posted before the killing, by the way. And then just one day before the killing, she posted this to Instagram. And the video shows a birthday cake with the word abracadabra written in icing. And then it cuts to Muhammad wearing a ski mask style hoodie. Strange, Dr. Bober, to say the least. But from your analysis, and by the way, would this factor into any analysis by a mental health professional during the course of this case? And how would it? >> So, not necessarily for competency, but maybe for an insanity defense because again, a competency evaluation is not static. She may be competent right now. She may not be competent 3 days from now. But for example, someone who has a history of psychosis or departure from reality or who is delusional, this may have impacted her during the crime itself. And that's why uh an evaluation for sanity would have to be done or or criminal responsibility. Now, the other way of looking at it is, you know, a defense attorney could probably say, "Hey, listen, she's creative. She's an artist, right? She this has no relation to the actual crime." But it's very hard to separate. It's very hard to separate what she's accused of from these uh these posts. You have to ask warning sign, red flag. I mean, I don't know. Assuming she did this, >> it's one piece of information that has to be taken uh with everything else. >> And again, what what more if you had the opportunity to speak with her, what would you like to know? >> Oh, I would have so many questions. I would want to know again about prior mental health history. I'd want to know if she used his I would want to know if she used substances. I would want to know about her trauma history. I'd want to know about similar incidents. These are all things I'd want to know. I'd want to talk to the people that she lives with, the people that she's friends with. Obviously, it would be helpful to have access to her social media. Uh, and obviously any forms of electronic communication. >> By the way, how can you make sure that she's telling the truth? How can you make sure that when during an evaluation, a mental health evaluation of some kind during the course of a legal case that that that the subject is being transparent with you about their past, about their motivations? If she's asked about why did she make these videos, how can you determine whether or not that subject is being credible? So, you look for corroborating information. You look for collateral sources of information. And if all you have is the subject, then you would state in your report that all information was provided solely by her and there were no other sources of information. So obviously that is going to maybe cast doubt on the veracity of the information, but you would state it in the report, but you do everything you can to try to speak to collaterals, to try to look at other sources of information besides the subject. >> Now, let me just go back to Jennifer Harris here, the victim in this case. So, her death has left her six children without a mother. We can't forget that. A GoFundMe, the Jennifer Harris Legacy Fund, has been set up to support her children. And we're going to put it up there if you want to check it out, participate, donate of some kind. But that GoFundMe reads, "Through this fund, Jennifer's legacy of strength, compassion, and dedication will continue to guide and uplift her children. Resources from the trust will be used to support their educational journeys from early learning through higher education as well as their overall well-being and personal development as they grow into adulthood. The Jennifer Harris Legacy Fund is a reflection of her lifelong commitment to family opportunity and the belief in a bright future. It ensures that her children are surrounded by the care, guidance, and support they need to thrive and that her spirit will continue to shape their lives for years to come. So, with Muhammad's mental evaluation pending, the next hearing is set for September 3rd. Dr. Daniel Bober, thank you so much for taking the time. It was good seeing you. >> My pleasure, Jesse. >> Apparently venting online about her manager at a McDonald's in East Point, Michigan. And hours later, that same manager, Jennifer Harris, was dead. And now, after months of silence and questions about what would happen next in this case, there is finally a new development that we have to talk about. one that clears the way for what comes next in court. Now, we're going to get to that, but first we got to rewind. This is one of those stories that actually started on social media and it spiraled into something that no one could have imagined. On July 10th, police say that Aphini Muhammad, an employee at the McDonald's, a 9-mile road, got into some sort of argument with her manager, Jennifer Harris, after she said she was sent home early. According to investigators, Muhammad left, sat in her car for a while, and then came back with a knife. So, when we talk about premeditation, let's think about that. When officers arrived, what did they find? Harris had been reportedly stabbed up to 15 times. A customer with a gun had stepped in to stop Muhammad from fleeing. Now, Harris was rushed to the hospital. She tragically died later from her injuries. Horrific case. And on July 11th, when we talk about what's going on in the court process, Muhammad made her first court appearance for her arraignment. This is where detectives laid out what they say happened in chilling detail. >> Prior to the stabbing, Muhammad was sent home by Harris for not performing her work duties and told Harris, "I'll be back." Muhammad was arrested on scene and the knife was recovered. Muhammad admitted that she intended to kill Harris and stated that after she was sent home, uh, she drove to a nearby park, decided to come back and stab Harris with a knife. uh that she had inside of her vehicle. When Muhammad returned to stab Harris, she entered the back entrance with a hooded mask over her face in an attempt to conceal her identity and attempted to flee the scene after the stabbing, but was stopped by an armed customer. >> So, Muhammad was charged with firstdegree premeditated murder and carrying a dangerous weapon with unlawful intent. Now, she's also been charged as a habitual offender. What does that mean? Well, it's a designation that stems seemingly from a prior stabbing conviction in Virginia. and we're going to talk about that, too. Her bond was also set at $25 million cash or shy, strict conditions if she were to be released. So, that includes GPS monitoring, drug and alcohol testing, no contact with the victim's family, and a ban on returning to that particular McDonald's. Now, we got to talk about what happened at her next hearing on July 23rd. This is when Muhammad's defense attorney requested a competency and criminal responsibility evaluation. In other words, does she understand the legal process and what's happening? >> You're asking that this matter be addressed for discovery. Number one and number two, you want it referred to the forensic center for competency and bill. Is that correct? >> Yes, your honor. Council does request at this time that Mr. Center herself personally objects to the referral at this What is the um fact the actual basis that you rely on for the def based upon my observations of the case um and in reviewing the case specifically the police reports and then again my observations interacting with I need to check those two boxes I need to make sure that one she is confident stand there's not an issue responsibility. >> So this meant that the case would pause while doctors, evaluators would determine whether Muhammad really understood her charges, whether or not she could assist in her own defense. We actually spoke with forensic psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Bober about what evaluators look for in these situations, what it really means to be competent to stand trial. This is what he had to say. >> Competency is a moving target. You know, someone can be competent one week and they can be incompetent the next week. So in the United States, competency is determined by a US Supreme Court case, US vusky. And essentially what that case says is that you have to have the ability to work with your attorney to collaborate with them and have a rational and factual understanding of the charges against you. So there are so many different reasons. Uh, I watched the Instagram video that she had posted prior to the incident and you clearly have someone who has poor impulse control, is emotionally disregulated, has escalating anger, repeated frustration, feels powerless over her situation, and, you know, feels that she's being subjected to this perceived injustice. There are so many different things here in the differential and obviously I've never examined her so I can't make a diagnosis but I think about things like psychosis, a personality disorder, substance use, perhaps repeated exposure to trauma and I think about delusions. I think about psychosis when I hear something like that. But again, there's just so much information that we would need. For example, uh was she treated for a prior mental health condition? Was she under the care of a psychiatrist? These are things I'd want to know. Talk to people that were around her in the hours and days prior to the incident. >> Now, during this same period, we also learned that Apheni Muhammad had a prior violent conviction. In March of 2022, she pleaded guilty in Virginia to unlawful wounding injury, stab, wound, cut without malicious intent. Court records from Virginia that were reviewed by Click on Detroit show that Muhammad had stabbed her then boyfriend during an argument in 2022. Later telling police, I stabbed him. Is he okay? Now she was sentenced to 4 years, but that term was suspended. So meaning she only served probation. Now it becomes a question, could that affect the current case? So now the case is back in motion after the results from the findings on her competency evaluation came in. and we're going to break down that report in a moment, but first we got to get into all aspects of this case. So, let me bring on somebody to talk about this. Somebody always happy to have on, criminal defense attorney John Day. John, thanks so much for taking the time to come back here on Sidebar to talk about what is a very, very strange and yet sad case. Um, from a prosecutotorial point of view, maybe even a criminal defense point of view, what do you think the strength of this case is? I mean, you have this social media post. You have a potential eyewitness who allegedly stopped the defendant. Um, talk to me about how strong you think the evidence is in this case. >> I mean, you know, the social media post, the eyewitness, those are all, if you're the prosecutor, you really, I guess it doesn't get much better than that. I mean, you know, eyewitnesses, of course, are always subject to uh, you know, the idea that what we see is not necessarily what really happened. There's always a lot of research on that. But if I'm prosecuting this, I'm pretty I feel pretty good about that. I mean, that's um uh that's enough for me to keep going. And you're going to hope that a jury sees this the same way. >> Now, we'll talk about mental health in a second, but looking at this, if we build up the narrative that she was angry at her manager, she had this you you know, it was fuming for quite some time. But how does the law separate between, let's say, an emotional impulse, maybe in the heat of an argument, even though she allegedly stepped out, came back in, and premeditation, or is it just a very, very thin line? >> Well, you know, premeditation can occur in an instant, and that's what prosecutors are always trying to convince a jury when they're asked to step down a charge in a in a homicide case. I mean, it's the the premeditation. and it's the what was going on in that defendant's mind, what was leading up to that. Um, it could just be a snap decision, but in the right circumstances, you can have premeditation that occurs in that snap decision moment. And so, um, it's the it's the idea that there's a backstory. Okay? This is not just a chance encounter road rage type homicide. This there's a backstory. There's something going on. And if you're the prosecutor, you want to hammer that home for the jury. You want to say, "Look, this is this is what was building." It's like turning on a teacettle and eventually the the the steam explodes. And that's what was happening here. And so the prosecutors are going to look at the backstory. They're going to try to uh build it up. They're going to try to put a foundation together so the jury understands uh really why this occurred even though it was um you know, obviously it was a horrifying situation. In the eyes of the prosecutors, there's a reason that this happened. And jurors, we're going to explain to you why. And from a legal point of view, how does a prior conviction like Muhammad's 2022 stabbing case out in Virginia, how does that influence either the current charges or potential sentencing if she's convicted? >> Right. Well, clearly it's not happening in a vacuum. I mean, this is not a situation where it's an, you know, it's an aberrational, at least in the eyes of the prosecutor, in the eyes of the state. It's it's not an aberrational thing. It's something that there's a history. She knows full well what happens when you take a blade to a human body. she's experienced that before. So, at the very least in sentencing, it's going to play a huge role. Um, and of course, a lot depends on what gets in, what the judge lets in in front of the jury. But the idea that this is someone who's not uh who has a familiarity with what happens when you when you take an instrument like that, a deadly weapon, and you apply it to a human body. Um, she she fully in the eyes of [clears throat] the prosecutor, she fully knew what was going to happen. >> Well, let's talk about this. So, the defense, they requested this competency evaluation um and a criminal responsibility evaluation. How often do we see that in the beginning stages of these cases or maybe during the course of a case, right? Competency doesn't necessarily have to be an issue that happens right at the beginning. It could sometimes happen in the middle. Um, how often do we see that? >> Right. Well, that generally, so what happens is in in a in the judicial system, anyone who has a a concern, generally it's the defense lawyer, but a judge can raise it. A prosecutor can raise it. Of course, that's much more rare, but um lawyers, defense lawyers have an obligation. If you think there's something going on with the client, with a defendant, that raises the issue of competency. And remember, competency is very different from things like, you know, not guilty by reason of insanity, things like that. Competency is pretty narrow. It's just the idea that this defendant understands the charges against her. This defendant understands what's being played out in court. She understands the role of the judge. She understands the role of the prosecutor. She understands the role of the defense attorney. And can she assist her defense attorney in preparing her own defense? Those are really the only issues that a competency evaluation gets into. It doesn't get into, oh, you know, did she know it was right or wrong? Those are the issues for the jury if it gets to that point. So competency is simply limited to in this current state she's in. Does she understand what's happening to her? Can she assist in her defense? Does she know who the players are? It's it's pretty limited. And states that that have this process, it sometimes you can be treated the competency if you're found incompetent. That's a whole another issue. You can be held in custody and made to undergo psychiatric treatment and then if you're treated the competency, you can stand trial. In this case, didn't even get that far. an evaluator, a PhD, probably psychiatrist, psychologist, somebody who's an advanced uh uh practitioner said she understands what's going on. She's competent. >> Let's talk about this. And by the way, you know, in a competency, I mean, you you you really explained it quite well. It could delay a trial for quite some time if the if the defendant is not competent, but talking about the mental health of this defendant and what might have been going on. And yes, she's innocent until proven guilty. But just before the stabbing, okay, Muhammad had gone live on Instagram and posted this nearly 7 minute video, this rant that many now see as potential evidence and chilling in hindsight. >> I got sent home early yesterday. I got sent home early today by the same person. I'm telling you, she's a bully. This isn't funny. She needs to understand that just because she's a mother and got children doesn't mean that she can come in in this store, you know, disrespecting people, talking to them like everybody's beneath her. She has no respect and it isn't funny at all. Like seriously, man, I got I got to take care of. And she keeps sending me home early. It's It's not funny. She's playing games. And then all day throughout the day, she keeps saying her little racial. And then throughout the day, she keeps on like putting negative energy in air, talking about people, gossiping about people. It's not funny, man. That's going to have to stop. She's a bully. I'm telling you. She's a bully. She She brings a lot of negative energy in there. She always panic when when it's a lot going on. And then she tried to manipulate that and make it seem like we ain't doing something right. But we are working really hard and doing great. It's just the fact that she panic and I caught her a few times making a mistake and she tried to hurry up and play it off. You know, nobody's perfect. It's God. It happens. You know what I mean? Like sometimes like somebody might get confused. So it gets busy. Yeah. But she need to stop playing like she like she don't be making mistakes. I be catching her. I be catching her. >> And you could even hear her say there that her manager's behavior would quote catch up to her. And hours later that grim prediction came true. I mean, if you listen to the allegations, John, I just want to highlight that point one more time. Any way defense attorneys can make sure that doesn't come into evidence in a criminal case? Because if you ask me, that could be a slam dunk for them for for prosecutors. >> A slam dunk for them is is the way to put it. I mean, I racking my brain here to think about how you keep that out as a defense lawyer. I mean, it's what is it? It's it's evidence of uh premeditation and not just premeditation in a few moments before a stabbing, but it's it's evidence of premeditation long before that. And you know, um we actually a couple of instances we've seen that these assassination attempts on President Trump or the alleged assassin or the convicted assassin says things on social media about what they want to do, situations like that. We see that a lot where somebody uh posts something on social media. That gets back to the issue of competency though because if somebody is saying I'm going to do this uh you know are they in their right mind if you're the defense team you want to say look this is what was going on with this person so clearly they were not uh they were not stable and and you want that to feed into the issue of competency if you're trying to defend it but at the end of the day and in that final analysis having a social media post where you make those kind of threats even if it's not a specific threat uh that's part of the whole you know the pen number of what you're going to present to the the jury, you're going to say, "Look, this was an, you know, set in action a long time before and she completed the plan." So, take that as a promise or a threat, and she fulfilled the threat. >> Yeah. Um, I want to go back though to this development in the case regarding mental health. Um, and after several delays, there was, by the way, a review hearing in early uh early September, excuse me, while doctors completed their evaluation. Muhammad was back on court, was back in court, I should say, on October 8th. And this is where the judge confirmed those findings. >> The court is in receipt of a report dated September 17th, 2025. And it's my understanding that both the defense and the prosecution stipulate to the uh September 17th, 2025 report which impines that Miss Muhammad is competent to stand trial. Is that correct? On behalf of the people. >> That's correct, judge. >> On behalf of the defendant? >> Yes, your honor. >> Very good. So, this matter needs to be set for a preliminary examination. Now, in a statement to WJBK, Mcome County Prosecutor Peter Lucido said, "The finding that the defendant is competent to stand trial ensures that she can now be held accountable through the proper legal process." The allegations describe a brutal act that has tragically ended the life of an innocent woman. Our office remains committed to seeking justice for the victim and her family. Now, John, let's get a little bit more granular here. What was that evaluation when you're determining competency? We talk about it, but what is it specifically? What are they asking? What are they looking for? How do you know for sure that she understands, let's say, the charges or the legal process or what's ahead of her? What are the what does that evaluation actually look like? >> Right. Well, you know, it can be not necessarily, you know, an exhaustive comprehensive mental health evaluation. It can be an evaluator sitting in a room with this defendant and sometimes with the lawyer present and asking just very specific questions about do you know, you know, starting off with things like do you know where you are? Do you know what day it is? Do you know who's president? Do you know your your birthday? Getting into things about okay, do you know why you're here? Do you know what the charges against you are? Can you explain to me what those charges are? What you think they are? Not not what happened. They don't get into any detail about the actual incident. And that's very important because the evaluator is not getting any information from the defendant about the actual alleged crime. They're just saying, uh, look, what do you understand about your circumstances? What do you understand about uh your lawyer's role? Who is your lawyer? What is their job? Who is the prosecutor? What is the prosecutor's job? And who is the judge? And which person is the judge? Is that the person up on the bench wearing a black robe? What does a judge do? Um, and it gets into those uh some specific areas, never touching on the actual uh allegation, never touching on anything surrounding that, but it's just very simple about uh you know, do you understand why you're here today? Don't talk to me about what happened, but um I need to know if you can understand the context of why you're here and what could happen to you, what could happen to you if you go to trial. What does a trial look like? Um who are the players? So, it's it's somewhat limited. Um, but in the eyes of the evaluator, they want to determine, does this person even grasp where they are, what's going on? And the people who are found not competent often have just absolutely no clue about any of these things. And that's because of the wide range of mental illness and various things that can can affect the evaluation. But evaluators generally are also very uh well trained in ter trying to determine who is um malingering, who is making stuff up. they can see through the uh the um any kind of falsehoods or dissembling that a defendant might engage in. So that's one of the other things a trained a good evaluator knows when they're telling the truth essentially and when they're uh putting on a show. >> And to be clear, this may not be the end of the conversation regarding competency. There are cases where somebody could be found competent. something happens during the course of the case, the criminal process, even maybe before trial, where they there's a question of competency once again, right? I mean, what what could happen? When would an attorney say, "Wait a minute, court, we're having a competency issue once again. What would be some red flags?" >> Right? And that can happen. I mean, again, if you're a defense lawyer, you have an oblig every state in the in the nation has a a code of conduct for lawyers that say if you you have an obligation to represent your client and and if you have a belief, a good faith belief, it can't be something you're trying to uh uh do not in good faith, something you're trying to do for the purposes of delay. If you have a good faith belief that this defendant has an issue and it can come up again, I mean they they they she can be found competent to stand trial and in two months some something may arise with her defense team that they say look this is this is happening again. We have a real issue and what the competency does is it's it stops the clock. Okay. So as soon as it's raised generally a judge will consider it and if they [clears throat] think it's legitimate that's another filter. A judge can say, "No, I'm not going to agree to another evaluation." But that's pretty rare. The judge will stop the clock. The evaluation will take place. It can be, you know, a month, two months, 3 months, but once the evaluation is in, then the judge will say, "Okay, we're going to have a hearing. We're going to go through all this. Prosecution, defense both get to present arguments and the judge decides." So, it can happen in the middle of a trial. It can happen weeks, days before an actual trial takes place. A lot of it gets back to the obligations of a lawyer when they believe in good faith that something's going on with that defendant. >> Now, she's due back in court for a preliminary hearing on November 14th. What can we expect from that? >> It's going to be your mini trial, your mini probable cause hearing where the prosecution gets to present just enough evidence to get over the probable cause hurdle in front of a in front of a judge. is it's a you know it's sort of the first glance that the defense has as to some of the key witnesses in the prosecution's case. Um we get a lot more information at these kinds of hearings. Sometimes they get waved when the pro and the defense team decides you know there's no benefit to us here. Let's just move forward. But a lot of times you if you're the defense lawyer, you're going to get a lot of discovery out of this. You're going to get a lot of statements. You're going to get a lot of information about theories from the state. So it's a valuable step. It's an important step. Uh, and especially now that she's been found competent, uh, both sides get to see what her reaction to the evidence. And if you're the prosecution, if you're, I'm sorry, if you're the defense, you get more information about her role in this and how she's going to respond. Prosecution gets a chance to put on their case for the first time, the first bite of the apple. And and usually, I mean, when you're talking about particularly like a case like this, the prosecutors would be able to go over that hurdle and have this enough evidence that there was probable cause this crime was committed and move forward towards trial. And as it moves forward towards trial, just to be clear for our audience, the jury, the potential jury in this case, they would not know about the competency issue, right? That wouldn't come up for them. That's not something they would have to dis you use in their calculation about whether or not she committed this crime. >> Right? The jurors do not hear about all the preliminary matters including whether or not there was a competency evaluation, whether it was she was found competent. That is not something that they need to or will hear. That's all kept from them. Obviously, it would be prejuditial uh extremely prejuditial. It could be one way or the other. So, that all that information about competency doesn't come in. Um, of course during a trial, the defense can put on various experts who can talk about a lot of things. Expert witnesses can get into these areas, but you're not going to have a jury here about the prior competency battle or the competency evaluation. Does this conversation we're having right now, does it give you any insight into where the defense may go? And and B, it's always the defendant's choice about whether or not they want to take the stand, right? their defense attorneys can say, "Do not do this. I'm telling you, do not do this, but it's up to the defense. It's up to the defendant themselves." Um, any idea where the defense may go with this? And B, do you think there would be any advantage for her to take the stand and explain her side of the story? >> Right. As to a a good question. So, the defense is going to want to mitigate everything that they can. They want to be able to explain why this person reacted the way they did. They want to explain what's going I mean they want to get to that. They want to get up to that line. They want to get as close as they can to the idea that she's not responsible for her her own actions and this is why they want to establish what's going on in her head, what her mental state has been like. You know, there are a lot of reasons you're going to want to get into her history to try to give the juror some idea of why this was not uh, for example, a coldblooded killing, which the prosecution is going to be trying to paint it as. Now, as to be, as to whether she should testify, of course, that's always the defendant's choice. It's such a rare case that it it's going to benefit a defendant to explain, sit there on the witness stand, look at the jurors, and say, "This is why I stabbed this person with a knife." I mean, that really cuts into the defenses. It undercuts the defense's claims of look, look at this poor person's history. Look at their mental state. Um, when she's able to get up there and articulate things, it really uh minimizes any chance the defense has of appealing to one or more of these jurors. And and unless it's a self-defense claim, which we haven't seen here, uh she's not going to take the stand. >> Well, we'll see. And I'll tell you, it will be difficult for her, particularly when you you have these prior statements that she allegedly made on social media and having to be questioned about that and talk about that could be problematic. John Day, thank you so much for taking the time. It was really great seeing you. >> Good to see you. Thanks. >> He pointed it up in the air. >> Get it. Body camera video shows what led up to an officer involved shooting at a restaurant in Austin, Texas. It happened on October 23rd on the city's north side. A 911 call first reported a suspect, later identified as 42-year-old Ama Williams, at a nearby apartment complex. Police say he walked toward a man there and pulled out his gun. When officers arrived at the apartment complex, they couldn't find the suspect, but minutes later, he was found inside the patio portion of a restaurant. >> He's going to find you. He's going to find another exit. We need to try to eback the people at the other exit. He's on the patio. >> Body camera video shows officers repeatedly asking Williams to drop his weapon and come outside. >> Drop your weapon. Hands up. Come outside. >> Off the police department. I have no idea. >> White shirt. We know you have a weapon. Off the police department with your hands up on the weapon. >> Officers can then be heard strategizing how to get restaurant patrons to safety. Worrying the suspect may take some of them hostage. >> There's got to be a back door somewhere. We just want to find the back door, get the people out that are inside so we can't go in and take. Multiple responding officers surround the restaurant, working to pinpoint Williams's location and urging him to come outside. >> Where's he at? >> He's right there. >> He keeps sticking his >> blue shirt back inside of the restaurant. >> White shirt weapon. Come out with your hands up. >> Security footage from inside the restaurant shows the suspect grabbing his weapon. Officers say Williams then pointed his weapon in the air. After that, shots rang out. He pointed it up in the air. >> Video shows officers rushing toward the restaurant before a second round of shots are fired. Is everybody okay? Anybody? >> As officers approach the patio, they make a plan to secure the area. >> All right, we're going to move up. We're going to kick that pistol away. It's empty. Slide back to the rear. >> All right, everybody follow me. >> Everybody tracking what I'm saying? Williams was shot multiple times. He was treated on the scene for his injuries and later at a hospital. No one else was injured. Williams is charged with attempted capital murder and deadly conduct. In all, five Austin police officers fired their weapons during the incident. They are all placed on administrative duty as the investigation continues. From here, a criminal and administrative investigation into the shooting are underway. >> Today, we're at a Popeye's in Augusta, Georgia. An alleged incomplete drive-thru order turned into complete and total destruction. 50-year-old Belinda Miller was charged with firstdegree criminal damage to property and aggravated assault. Miller allegedly drove her 2011 black Toyota Rav 4 straight through the side of an Augusta Popeye's, all because her drive-thru order was allegedly missing biscuits. After crashing into the side of the store, Miller supposedly fled the scene. Police then arrived and captured the aftermath of the incident. >> Oh, she made it right there. She made it that far in and took off. >> I know. >> Hey, that lady. >> Oh, yeah. cuz she took off going that way. >> The store's manager told police what made Miller so angry. >> Oh, so she came in. >> She came in the first time and I called the police the first time to get exporter out of here because she was disturbing everybody else. And she told me that y'all going to have to arrest me. They going to have to pull me out of here. I couldn't find and that's their job. So, I'm going to let them do that. >> Okay. She actually called up here to let us know she was going to run that car into that this building. But >> you are the manager? >> Yes, sir. I was the manager. >> Now, when this first occurred about the the biscuit thing, that's what it started, right? >> Yes, sir. >> So, she had came through the drive-thru, >> argued about whining about some biscuits. >> When she came through, they must have got the biscuit out of her bag and she drove off and then I guess when she realized it was gone, she called back and told me about the situation. But as soon as I answer the phone, she was, "Hey, lady. Okay, babe. I'm sorry. I do apologize. Bring it. You know, if you feel like come back over at night cuz I know it's cold outside. I replace whatever was missing. Exactly. I said to her, she started making threats and saying this is how people get killed, racist, everything towards black people when she's black and >> so after she did all of that, >> I just went ahead and called the officer up here because she told her that we was going to have to do that for her. Okay, fine. So, after after the officer left, he told me if she comes back, call them back. Right when I came in here, come back to the business. That's when my coworker told me that she had just called back and said she was going to run a car to the building. And 5 minutes later, she did. >> Miller was later found and arrested at her home and booked at the Charles B. Webster detention center and held on a bond of over $4,000. >> Going to Waffle House. LT. Hey, that's the way to get out of here. Okay. >> I know you're not. You're in custody. Whatever. I never would have resisted me. I would have gone right here. >> Water in the back of my car. >> What do you need? >> Hey, water. Two. Dispatch. I couldn't I got to be careful. >> Yeah. Mr. What do you mean? See if you can get some more water. >> Yeah, please out of my car. being a little like that's our car. So water cup water. I don't need a top or anything. was driving. Yeah, we did that for you. Uh after we ran my test that for me is that for me. It's just water. It's just water. Just wants to get that burn off of you. >> I thought he was going to >> Oh, yeah. He twice he tried to ram it in here >> and then >> and then if I >> if I had enough he ran this one trying to get ram in that one fourwheel drive man he's going to be the uh one of the tracker >> got your cell phone on laser on your laser on table on Take me these guys out with my face where it started. >> [ __ ] >> Yes, sir. you sir dogs for you, man. >> I didn't hit any dogs. I didn't hit any of [ __ ] I didn't hit any human being. And after this is she's in this vehicle. She's getting pair of socks down here. I told you nothing. >> Thank you. I'll give you >> somebody broke away. Man, I know I got good. >> Oh, there you are. Soon as you got my hands on it, somebody busted out that wooden. >> That was me. Sorry, I probably didn't. >> I didn't have a handle. >> Probably up in here. I laid it down where I could handle it. >> Well, hitting me ain't going to make me open it for you any quicker. Oh, no. I understand. >> Oh, no. That's >> I didn't get my equipment out of uh my car yet. I didn't even get my equipment out of my car. >> Looks like >> I was picking my car up and went out my ass when I got in there. >> About being sprayed again. Here we go. >> Don't worry about being sprayed again. Did you stop doing anything when I got sprayed? >> I got rescued. >> I didn't leave the scene to tell you that that I need to quit. >> I didn't leave until after I changed. At least not very quick enough. >> Where is your spray by the way? >> Believe me, I want to use his mind, but I was the only one here. >> You got cancelled. We had to. He went up the opposite way. >> He He went uh He was going 85 north. He looked me dead in my face. Made a U-turn coming up. Came right here and made a right. That [ __ ] you turn raced in East Point. Ended in East Point. the [ __ ] out of that. But there's no East Point here. >> No, they never come. >> They never come to that [laughter] house. >> Oh, that that that waffle house not in our jurisdiction. [laughter] >> They say yours is I'm glad it's not ours. I'm not drugs or anything in this vehicle. >> Huh? >> Yeah. >> No man's laying up here. I got up. >> Damn, he messed up our new car. >> Brand new, man. We haven't had it too much. >> I know, man. >> Don't say that. I just picked it up. I was in the middle. >> I was I was in the middle of picking it up when this came out. >> I don't even have my equipment. >> Yeah. I mean, I was literally picking it up from the shop when this came out. Mhm. You bleeding, buddy? >> Yeah, the window fell on my slipped it right here. That one's good. All right. >> So, I would just put some normal saline on it and just rinse them off. I'll be honest, I don't know what good >> right. I will I will clean them out with some cleaning solution and maybe just rub them down with some gauze. But other than that, there's if you want me to wrap them, I'll wrap them. >> But I don't know that that there's going to be a purpose for that. Yeah, I got you. >> The uh >> the owner's in here. The ladies, but nobody. >> Hey, I don't see any vehicle. >> I can No, they're not even bleeding. They're just just right there. >> He wasn't in it when he got hit. Oh, he wasn't. No, he had his gun on him. >> Yes, sir. >> I know there came out. >> Okay. Yeah, you know that. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> I thought he was going to wreck you, boy. I wasn't going to let I didn't have some tell me get out of the way. You scared the [ __ ] out of me. Scared the [ __ ] out of every city. Sounds good. You going to walk or what? >> No, my car is good. We've already seen it one time. We didn't want it. >> He hit it right where it >> is. Yes. Have you ever seen this before? the whole time. >> I think we're good. I dropped the guitar. >> At least seven. The guy that's in the yellow, not him, but the yellow mini. >> All right. But it'll I think I feel like it'll make it at least go a little bit better. Right. Yeah. Let me go get some stuff for you. >> But it's like this is something new every day. I knew what was going to happen. You know, I'll tell you this. Well, that's why we got two phones in front of this car. We'll place those up. >> Yeah. And so was But here's the thing. See the hand? your hand. I was like, "This is going to really go bad." I saw that. Did y'all get our car earlier this morning on the interstate? >> They were telling us a truck in a trailer. Well, it was this guy, which I seen. I said, "You sure it's not a tractor?" After we done passed him, she said, "Oh, yeah, it is a tractor." Well, he parked it here. I got on it again and she said they found a new car, man. She said they found it. >> That's what she said. >> And I saw the lights down the road. I was about to pull you out of your car and take your crown vic from you and I was going to stop him with that. >> Yeah. Hit that blood or something. >> Yeah. Me and >> right Mark we had it. We didn't mean to break the glass. >> I wasn't expecting it but I know why he I mean he wanted to get to me too. I mean everybody wants to get there but sometimes smooth and what I'm saying because I had him had him under control and I was supposed to spray like one time. >> I'm just going to do it right here and just let it run down. Just >> you figures where you at? >> Been at Fton since first thing this morning. I was ready to determination on things yet. come over and look >> who's making >> Hey Same. Talk to Watkins. >> That's you. >> Yeah. >> You can't go that way. There's >> a red basically This was this was East started at East Point. Then we were here anyway. >> I was about to cuff him so I could get out of there before that OC really got me good. And somebody's like, "Taser." And I was like, "Oh my goodness." And I felt him tasing him. I was like, "You got to be kidding me." What do you think, Barry? Cuz I was about to get him again when you >> and I said, "No, no, no." >> Cuz I was thinking one of us might not have that uh nonflammable OC. Mine still might be from the early 90s. I was like, "Right." >> Yeah. Like I say, I think it fell out like it came out like taking a chance. >> No, absolutely not. >> We were looking for Let's go into your vehicle. Okay. Yeah, I have a white in my face. I was holding just in case, but I'm going to go put my stuff up. >> Yeah, there's a tractor going down the [laughter] Virginia. >> Well, she didn't say that the was and I saw lights from back there. >> That's why that's why I let him go when he got off. >> So, somebody was chasing him. I saw it. >> But the way she went out, they were [ __ ] sitting at the racetrack. >> We're like, "All right, let's go get it." We're like, "Wait a minute." The reason I asked is cuz I saw blue lights up here. I was like, "Somebody chasing him?" And then nobody was chasing him when I got up. When he got to me, I guess they turned around and left. They gave up. >> I wouldn't get in front of this. >> Uh-oh. >> I mean, well, I probably should have with my car. >> We could have definitely shot them damn tires out right here, though. >> It would. I don't think it would have stopped it, though. >> No, it would have It would just It would have just slowed it down a little bit. But I man those things are probably full pulling. >> Dude, somebody said somebody stopsticks like that [ __ ] ain't going to do nothing. They just be flopping around. >> You'll see me wrapping around the [ __ ] tire goingoop. >> Next time Walsh, jump on my hood and I'll get you right there. Jump in. >> Yeah, they I bet you those tires got water in them. Look, it's >> black. [laughter] driving. >> I thought that we have I got tag and number on Atlanta. handbody. >> He almost did. >> I had the Well, then Bradberry jumped over there. That's what scared the [ __ ] out. >> Well, and when he did, that's when >> I think me and you both had the slack pulled out. >> We were ready. I told you I said we're we're going to have to take him. And if he kept going towards me right here, it was all she rose. I was trying to get my >> He was no He was no [ __ ] a half a second away from >> I was >> I was dead on him. I didn't I didn't want to kill him. >> Me and [ __ ] Barry sitting right there with a slack out. I said Barry I said we're about to take him Barry was about to take him. >> I was like right. You were here and I was here. I just did not want to shoot him. >> I didn't want to shoot him. >> I had a real good shot from where I was at cuz it just would have hit the top. >> What? >> Whose head is that in there? >> Huh? >> None of that today. Whose name is you say? >> Yeah. I was like, "No, that's >> Yeah, it's a symptomatical." I know. And I see Barry, too. And I said, "This is about to happen." I said, "I need to do something." My damn water in the other car. I got some ain't old sit in my passenger seat right there. It's in a in a plastic bag. I don't know. I didn't even know I was wearing it. >> There's some kind of pills in the top of that pocket right there that I could see in there when I was opening when I But they're in a ballistic bag. I trouble one of y'all for a cup of ice water. >> Get a cup of ice water. >> So, did you guys ask him what his plan was with the traffic? He don't have a plan. They've been chasing him all morning. >> He came up 85. >> Didn't even steal it from this area. >> He's got on camp somewhere. >> Oh my god. >> I told you construction somewhere construction and they mowing for the steak right now. >> I'm not tripping. I know. I know. That's where they >> What's the person with the gun? What's the person with the gun? Hello. >> How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> They gave us a call of a female with a handgun on their lap. >> A handgun? >> Yeah. >> Oh, no. So, I'm here with waiting picking up my son. >> Oh, okay. >> No, I >> Sorry to bother you. >> Oh, no problem. >> I don't know. That's I was like, "Wait a minute. Where are you coming from? I see you walking up." I was like, "That's the police." M sneaky. >> Put that gun away. Put it down. >> Get out the car. Put your hands back. >> What you mean? I don't like this scenario. >> You're fine. You're fine. Thank you. You're fine. Put your hands back. >> What they talking about? >> You have it concealed? >> Yes, sir. >> I do. >> All right. This is just for safety. Okay. You're not under arrest. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You have it? >> And it's Yes. And it's no buns in my clip anyway. >> No ammo. >> No. >> Okay. Where did you have it? >> I had it on back here. Oh, you can take me with I cut my shoes off. >> Get out front where nobody can see you. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I got it. >> You put your keys up here, too. Do you have your ID and your concealed permit? >> Yes. What is I'm What is the problem? >> Apparently, they saw your gun and they thought you >> It's in It's in the car. I have it in my car. That's where I have it. >> Okay. I'm just telling you >> it's no big deal. She got mad because she she got mad because I asked for my order. That was the problem. I didn't do nothing. All I said was, "I'm still waiting on my number one order because I asked for it. Now I'm trying to go home." She got mad. It was on some crazy. I'm like, "What are you talking about?" So, I I'm wait I'm still here waiting. >> Okay. >> [ __ ] I got a gun for me and I'm still waiting. >> We don't know all that. >> I don't care. That's the crazy part. She can She can say what she want to say. That's weird. The [ __ ] I'm still here waiting on my damn order. >> Do you have your license in your uh >> Can you pull my shirt up, please? >> You have your license. >> What is being stopped from? What is the problem? >> I just told you. >> No, you did not, sir. No, you didn't. >> Saw your gun. Okay. >> That you were threatening her with >> I did not threaten her with nothing, sir >> at all. I did not threaten her with nothing. >> That's what we're here to figure. >> No, I've been sitting in the car. Why would I threaten someone and I'm still sitting in my car waiting on my damn order? That doesn't make any sense. >> I don't know. >> She don't She's not making any sense. >> That's what we're here to figure out. >> She's weird. Pull this up, please. >> She's pointing at the person that told her she was a bust of [ __ ] >> What? I did not say that. She's a damn liar. All right, >> we're going to watch the video. >> No, she's not going to sit here and [ __ ] lie on me like that. No, she's not going to do that. And I'm going to call my mom right now cuz she That's weird as hell. >> Get my um No, I'm going to get my I'm going to get my phone. Thank you. So, >> she's a He's a liar. She's a >> I don't have a car. >> Are you serious? >> Yeah. All right. >> Are you serious? >> I'm done with them. >> Can you have 16 post car 57? Go get >> Please stay with zero. >> Are you serious? I did not do anything to her. I just I've been waiting on my order. >> We're going to watch the video. >> Okay. Well, please watch the video, please. Cuz that doesn't make no sense. Sir, >> I'm going to watch the video. >> Weird. Can these people right now call right now? That's crazy. I don't have time for this. I really don't. This lady is crazy. Do you take I didn't do anything at all. I'm just waiting on my order. >> Just waiting. Bro, >> she's a liar. >> You're mad at us when we're just responding to a call. >> Yes, but I didn't do anything. That's why I'm still waiting here. >> That out. And if you're acting out, then it makes it look like you're the bad guy. >> No, I'm not doing anything like a bad guy. I just don't like that she just sat here and lied. >> You said you had a concealed permit. You said a license. You've avoided it three times. >> I didn't do anything. Yes. >> I'm telling you what we're here investigating. You're not listening to me. It makes you look like a bad guy. >> No, I am listening to you. I just did. The thing about it is I don't like the way she's sitting here lying cuz I didn't do anything. I'm just sitting my car waiting on my phone. >> I also told you we're going to watch the video. >> Yeah, I just heard that. I just heard that because at the end of the day, he's over here acting like I did something wrong. You guys come like I I didn't do anything at all. >> Well, we're here for a person with a gun to allegedly >> Okay. Well, I didn't allegedly do anything. I didn't allegedly threaten anyone. I did nothing. >> You don't allegedly >> Yes, sir. I do. >> You're being accused of it. It's not saying you did do it. >> Okay. >> She's accusing you of it. >> Yes. >> We're going to watch a video to see if you did do it. >> I'm not saying you did it. I'm saying you're being accused of it. >> Mhm. >> We watch the video. You didn't do it. Cuffs come off. >> Yay. >> Everybody goes away home. >> Hold on. >> And do you have a valid driver's license? Are you allowed to drive? >> Yes. >> Do you have that with you? Hold on. >> I can't believe this lady really just suffering this. Like, what the heck? I ain't doing nothing. >> I'm going to let you go, but I want you to stay standing right here. Okay. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Just stay standing right here. >> Yeah, but I'm not going to go anywhere. I don't I didn't do anything. Why would I run anywhere? I'm sitting here waiting on my food. >> I'm not saying running. I'm saying stay standing here. >> Crap. I'm still waiting on my dang food. And >> that's your mom. >> Mhm. Get the number. I don't know what the heck she decided to say. That's I don't That's crazy. >> Like I said, you watch the video. It shows you not doing it. >> It's this number right here. Go ahead and call it. >> When you handed it to me, it clicked. >> Oh. 33 right now. >> You're not here. >> It don't make no sense. >> 82 teletype. Can you copy a PX? >> 32. That's the person in the drivethru. Come on. Stand by for just a second. I'll tell you what. Give me a sec. I need >> I want you over there. You stay here, man. Right there. >> And what do you want him to tell her? >> Tell her to call my phone because I'm having a problem at McDonald's that could possibly send me to jail. >> Yeah. >> Do you want to wait to see if you get released first? Because if you watch the video, >> I'm not going I'm not going to jail because I didn't do anything. >> Watch the video then. >> Yeah, I didn't do anything. I didn't do nothing at all. >> If you watch the video and the and the allegations are false. >> Do nothing. >> You're not listening to me. >> Listen to me, please. >> If you watch the video, it didn't happen. Those handcuffs come off, you go home. >> Do you understand? Stand over here, please. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? So, if you're going to be released, >> if you're going to be released, do you still want to call your mom? >> Yes, I got to call her. I need to call her. >> Okay. >> That's weird. >> You look That's crazy though. I don't like that. >> I just want to make sure that you don't call her and then get released and then she >> No, I want to call her now cuz it's so It doesn't She's That doesn't make me see lying. I didn't do nothing. I didn't pull no gun out on her. Why would God do that, sir? I go to school for criminal justice. I would never do that. That doesn't make any sense. But people do it. Of course, people get falsely accused. >> Of course, I didn't do that. Nothing. >> People get falsely accused. >> You're not listening. >> I'm done. >> I'm so tired of that. >> She's a liar. >> That's weird. I didn't do anything that >> you want to put her in the car. >> Yeah. Okay. >> For what? >> Under arrest. >> For what? What? What did I do? >> What did I do? Can you tell me why? >> Assault of what? >> Can I get my phone so I please assault for what? What the heck? I didn't do no assault. >> Oh, they're saying I You watch your video. So >> Oh my god. These people are crazy. This is make >> you all right? >> Yeah, I'm okay. Can I get um Can you call my mom, please? I need a phone, please. I called my mom cuz my kids are at home with um I came back and she come and get your car, too. >> Yes, if I can get her phone, please. I don't know what the heck she's talking about. It doesn't make any sense. Like, >> can you call that number and have her mom respond and pick up the call? >> Can I get Yeah, just call the number. I didn't >> Okay. >> What's your first name? Say it again. >> Yeah. >> All right. Watching this. going to be that door. >> Hey, what's up? Step up against counter. Step up against counter. Give me a second. Gosh, >> she went upstairs. >> Uh, can you do a search for me? >> Did you come back before I come? Can you just let her know? >> Yeah, I'll be in here with you. We got family and person. Lean forward for me. >> I need to get to your hands. No, I'm good. Thank you. >> What's that? Uh, whatever they get a chance to transport here. >> What's that? No. >> All right. Can you take your jewelry off and just dump it in here? >> I use my I don't have any numbers on yet. Like I don't know nothing. >> Yeah, I'll uh I have it in my truck. phone so I can be able to my phone to be able to call a number. >> Okay, I'll put you in there. I'll go grab your phone and I'll let you back out. >> [ __ ] is ridiculous. >> What you said? Assault. >> Uh, assault. Like, how is that assault? I didn't >> Oh, you you telling somebody that you're going to hurt them. You got a gun next to you. >> I didn't tell her I was going to hurt her. >> Well, that's what hurt David saying. That's a call that we got. You know what? I'm going to get a lawyer. I'm going to send her ass to [ __ ] court cuz she's a goddamn liar. I didn't do nothing to her. >> So she's ridiculous. No, bro. She got me [ __ ] I didn't even say I didn't even do nothing. All I said was all she did get my order right. Then I have 30. I mean that it was in my car anyways. The [ __ ] >> Mhm. >> And I don't care who the [ __ ] what they supposed to do. Can't charge me the gun. the [ __ ] is registered? It's licensed. I'm licensed for this [ __ ] I don't give a [ __ ] >> Well, the problem is that you have it open openly displayed in your vehicle. It has to be securely contained. >> Yeah, but I ain't tried I ain't say that I was going to shoot her or even pointed towards you. >> Well, that in and of itself is a second degree misdemeanor to have it open in your vehicle. >> I didn't assault her ass. It still was concealed. >> It was sitting on your passenger seat. >> Yeah, but it was still concealed in my car. >> It's readily accessible. That's not concealed. >> How is that regularly accessible for me to I would have to It The gun was in my car. It doesn't have any bullets in it. >> It doesn't? >> No. >> Okay. Well, it's still a firearm regardless of it whether has >> But it's still my firearm. I can carry my fire wherever I want to. That's a free wherever I want to. >> Yeah, but it has nothing in it. >> It's a firearm. That's the thing. It doesn't matter if it has bullets or not. >> Bullets aren't regulated that that much have nothing in it anyway. >> So, >> uh, can you take the earrings and does that nose ring come out? >> Yeah, but it didn't have nothing in the in the gun anyway. M >> cuz I had was was supposed to put it up. I had went to McDonald's to go get something to eat and I was going to put it up and then this happened and I didn't didn't do nothing to her cuz it was just sitting in my car. >> Take the bracelets off >> and I ain't even I ain't threatened her. I ain't said I was going to do anything to her. I didn't even point it at her. So I just did it. No, you can't do nothing about it. And I can't either. I just order it. But you're not going to say I did leave things to her lying. I didn't do nothing. Cuz if I did that, I would not be still sitting at McDonald's waiting on my food. >> I would have left. That don't make no sense. I'm still sitting here waiting on my food. I'm like, "Okay, boom." And then you guys, I'm like, "What?" That's why I was surprised cuz I'm looking at somebody like, "What the heck? I didn't even do nothing." You don't have any other that might come out. That's it. >> Uh, can you step in >> two? >> Is there any signs of life, guys? She's still got a pulse. >> She's got a weak pulse, but she's got a pulse. >> Newly obtained body cam footage is giving us a new look into a horrific murder at a Taco Bell. >> Did my daughter get shot? >> Did my daughter get shot? >> Banging. >> Did my daughter get shot? >> Yeah. >> Well, she got shot. >> I need to go with her. >> She got shot. >> I need to go. I knew that's what >> I need to go with her. Please let me go with her. You know what hospital? I'm going to let you let you know. Okay. >> We need to give them everything in the world. They're doing everything they can. They need room. >> They need all the room in the world. Okay. >> She got shot. >> We need all the room. >> This is the problem with guns. I'm sorry. >> She was on the phone with people having guns. A little man with his car. >> She was on the phone with that. Okay. >> A young Ohio woman lost her life at the hands of a complete stranger. We first reported this story when it broke in August. Police responded to reports of a deadly altercation at the drive-thru of a fast food spot in Kyhoga Falls. That's just north of Akran. Witnesses reported seeing a man in the drive-thru exit his car, approached the car in front of him, and fatally shoot the driver. Authorities identified the shooter as 53-year-old Jason Williams. The victim was 25-year-old Megan Kellerman, a recent college graduate from Cleveland State University, and officials confirmed she died from a gunshot wound to the head. The horrifying incident began when Kellerman asked an employee to call police after her car was hit in line by the driver behind her. According to the police report, the Taco Bell employee who was taking Kellerman's order witnessed the entire ordeal. The detective reported the employee could hear the victim talking to someone on the phone. She heard the female tell the person on the phone, "Oh my god, he intentionally ran into me. I think I cut him off." The witness then told detectives she saw a male up near the victim's car and he kept looking for a way out. He was boxed in the drive-thru with nowhere to go. She saw him shoot the victim in her car and later shoot himself under his chin. And now we're learning Kellerman may have still been alive for some time before she passed. Body cam video obtained by Law and Crime captures officers responding to the gruesome scene. Guys, the guy still has them. They're right here. >> Suspect. One of them was the suspect. >> Sounded like it was murder suicide. I just saw all the lights and I pulled the call screen. I'm like, "Oh shit." Call screen. >> Get who the paramedics are. >> Right down to where the paramedics are. What we got here? Disregarded. I'm on the phone right now. Hi. I uh we got a murder we got a murder suicide at the Taco Bell on Graham Road. Graham and Hudson. So I'm wondering who's uh who should I call or is it you? Okay. Do you want to come out? I mean you can come out, can't you? I don't know. Should I call Ryan or else? >> Who's that? Let's go. Sure. Yeah. All right. I'm going to call I'm going to call I'll call Yeah, I'll call Heather. I'll call Heather. You got him here. Get this going. Okay. Take a look at him. You got the bottom of the chin. So, what do you want? >> Is there any signs of life, guys? >> She's got a weak pulse, but says she's got a pulse. >> Hi, Heather. rapid expertise. >> Hey, >> I have a uh murder suicide at the Taco Bell. >> And so I'm >> I'm calling you. You can um just call in and sign whoever you want to come out here. But >> sorry, did you get any pictures? >> Get water. Get water and get pictures. >> I know, but they're going to have him gone by the time Warner gets back. That's why I'm saying should I get >> He's not carrying his camera. >> No, he [music] wants to get up. >> Yeah, maybe get away. Do you want me to get some pictures? >> Yeah, get a couple pictures. >> Yeah. Firearm. >> All right. Thank you. Let's see. What way do you want? This way. That way. over here. >> All right. What do we need, sir? >> Just prioritize and execute. >> All right. We got scene. >> We got to identify the paramedics that were here in our scene. You got written statements from anybody? Uh Kyle the call is working on some. I'm getting them for them to talk. >> Okay. >> Um her dad's on his way here. >> They were on the they were on the phone when it happened. All right. So keep an eye out for that. We got to intercept him when he gets here. >> Um I got Heather's getting the detectives together. Okay. >> To see who's going to come in. >> They're saying she's got signs of life. I don't >> That's a I checked her checked her pulse on her neck, her wrist, her chest. I didn't get anything too, but the new ones. >> I know. I don't know why they're saying they're saying she's got signs of life, but I don't I don't think so. This lady over here on the bottom of the head and the top here trauma green matter. We got a gentleman down here shot to the bottom of the head. >> He's doing blood out. We got a ball on top of the cream of the skull here where it looks like an accident is attempting to happen. I have kid getting a cone to cover up the firearm so we don't move it. He's going to stay here just helping out with I'm going to go back get my camera in on my all my firearms to get it out of the way laying next to >> Totally fine. I just want to cover it up hopefully. >> Okay. Yeah, just go put that right over that firearm. >> I have not. >> I'm going to head over. >> I'm going to take the cruiser. I'm going to go back get my camera and everything so we can get everything documented fresh. Okay. If you need kid for anything, just tell them what you need him to do. >> I don't have room for it in the cruiser, so I got to go get it. >> Kellerman was on the phone with her father in the drive-thru line who directed her to call 911. Another part of the footage shows the heartbreaking moment when her family learned of the devastating news. >> She got shot. >> We need all the >> This is the problem with guns for you. I'm sorry. This is people having guns. A little >> She was on the phone with that. Okay. I'll see if I can talk to him. find out what was going on. Okay. Do you know anything about the situation? >> No, I just got a call that that she that she got beat up. >> Can I go talk to you over here channel? >> Were you I was I was the one in the in the car and and I was you told me that you were on your way here. >> So, I know that you were on the phone with your daughter >> all of a sudden. Oh my god, my car. like he hit her again. >> Okay, so let's let's back up. What? Like let's go back to when she first called you. >> Okay, she called me. She goes, "Dad, some guy just ran into my car." >> Okay. >> I said, "Call the police. Call 911." Okay. >> She was talking to the drive-thru people. She said the drive-thru lady was going to call the police. >> So, for about 5 minutes, I'm on the phone with her. We're talking just don't get out of the car. Don't do anything. Wait till the police get there. Okay. Now, >> all of a sudden, I hear like ruckus. like she was being pulled out of her car. She goes, "Oh my god, my car." And I heard like pops >> and I didn't think it was gunshots, but apparently it was a gunshot. >> I don't Just kind of walk me through what you heard. >> That's all I heard. >> Okay. >> And I hear all kinds of commotion. I don't hear any sirens for the longest time. >> Okay. >> And so I ran to my neighbor's house. I said, "Hey, you got to drive me to Taco Bell." I And I'm on the phone the whole time. I don't hear I hear all kinds of commotion going on. And my daughter's screaming and that was it. That's it. All right. So, I I was just trying to figure out if it started on the roadway and they followed her into the into the parking lot or if it was just happened in the parking lot. >> It happened in the parking lot >> as far as you know. Okay. All right. I don't have any real information for you right now. Okay. I know your daughter is in the ambulance and they're doing everything that they can. >> What's going on with that guy? What is going on with that guy? >> I probably shouldn't tell you. The guy's deceased. Okay. >> He's what? I'm trying to process what he's >> he's deceased. >> Why is he deceased? >> He took his own wife. >> Well, good. You know what? I'm >> I don't don't I don't I'm trying I'm glad I want to give you I'm just I I understand I have children. Okay. And you want to know everything that you can. There are things that like it's an ongoing investigation. I can't give you a whole lot of >> I understand. But it just irritates me that I'm I'm glad he's dead. I I hope you and you guys got a tough job and and and I'm very upset right now because it's my it's my daughter. I almost lost her in 2016 due to a colon issue. >> I'm very protective of of her. Okay. And then to have that guy do what he did. I'm glad he's dead. I'm glad. I don't want that to be too loud. I'm trying to call you down and and give you as much information as I possibly can. Okay. Without getting myself control. >> Okay. I appreciate it. Um, so that's that's all I can tell you right now. I appreciate it. Okay. >> Kellerman's dog was in her car when she was killed. A local rescue group took care of the pup before returning it to her family. >> Jason Williams later turned the gun on himself and died at the scene. At this time, police have not discovered a motive for the tragic shooting. What's >> going on? Why are you sitting back here? [music] Stop. [music] Huh? >> Stop. >> Please stop. >> Baby, tell me your baby. Stop calling me today. >> It's just before 5:00 p.m. at a McDonald's parking lot in Bowling [music] Green, Kentucky, where one man's botb decisions are about to land him in water hotter than Liebeck's coffee. >> Hey, man. Hey, man. >> What's going on? >> Oh, whoa. Easy, buddy. >> What's going on? >> What's happening? >> Thank you. >> Step out and talk to us real quick. >> Why? Well, we can see that you got an open bottle alcohol right here. >> Where? >> Right there. Right on your center console. Come on, man. Go ahead and step out for us. >> Step out, dude. >> Come on, man. >> He's got his pants pulled out. What are you doing? >> Come on. Come on out. >> Come out and talk to us. >> Come back here. >> I got it. >> Come back here. >> Sleep. Just go back here. Go back here and talk to him. Put your hands out your pockets. >> Yeah. What? What's going on? Why are you sitting back here? >> Chilling. >> Just chilling. >> Police identify the suspect seen here as 25-year-old Hunter Arnett, who they said was found slumped over in his car after officers responded to a welfare check. >> What do you Why here? Um, I usually come to get the spot via lunch. >> You get lunch here? >> Yeah. >> How long you been here? >> Um, about 40 minutes. >> 40 minutes. >> Yeah. >> Is that your drink in there? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You've been drinking a day. >> How much have you had to drink today? >> Not much. Maybe like two shots. >> Is there any reason? >> No. >> No. >> If I could just have someone pick me up. >> I don't know about that. Please. >> Well, you drove here, didn't you? >> Please. >> You do you have your ID on you? >> Please. I'm begging you. >> Do you have your ID on you? >> Please. I >> I need to figure out who you are. >> Please. I will give you anything you want. >> Just listen. Do what he asked you to do. >> Please. >> Do you have your ID? >> Is it in your wallet right there? >> I have my ID. Yes. >> Can I have it? >> Yes, you can have it. Please do not do this to me. Please. >> We didn't do this to me. >> I was going to say >> I'm saying please >> give me your ID and then we can talk. All right. >> Please >> just let I need to figure out who you are either way. You >> You can have it here. Okay. >> That's all I'm asking for. Where do you live? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Where's your ID? So, >> you're not from here? >> I am from uh Frankfurt, Kentucky, which is about 2 and 1 half hours away from here. >> What are you doing here? >> Um, I go here for school. >> Why are you at behind McDonald's? >> Baker 74. >> I'm trying to get some uh Thai food. >> There's a Thai restaurant. >> Yeah. Kentucky. Well, >> trying to get some pirate. >> Hunter eventually gives up his ID before this simple welfare check goes into meltdown mode faster than a McDonald's ice cream machine. >> So, you said you've been here 40 minutes. >> Look, I I would >> I would do anything for you guys if you guys >> if you guys just let me go. >> Please. >> Please. I'm begging you. Well, do you want to do some tests to see if you're okay to drive? >> Oh my god. Don't do this to me. >> Don't do this to me. >> I'm I'm asking you the question. >> Please don't. I have >> I've got about 66. You all can >> 40. >> You got 40. What? I am on driver's probation and I cannot drive. >> Well, you just told me you drove here. >> Is it suspicious? >> Listen, >> he was It said driver probation. >> Listen, I am on >> What does driver probation mean? >> I am on driver's probation. >> I am not allowed to be driving on the road. >> Why? Why? >> What do you mean? Why? >> Why are you on driver's probation? I am I am on a restriction. I am not supposed to be driving on the road. You don't do you know why? What? >> Because I have had too too many drivers restrictions. >> Okay. >> I've had too many driver restrictions. >> Well, I ask you then. Do you want to do some exercises to see if you're okay to drive? Why are you trying to do this to me? >> I'm not doing this to you. You did this to you. >> It's up to you. Do you want to do them or not? >> No. >> You don't want to do them? >> No. >> Okay. Well, turn around. >> What? >> Yeah. >> What? You heard me. >> Stop. >> Come on. Off the car. >> Stop. >> Stop. >> Stop. It's It's not worth you fighting. >> Look, let's get ready. You're You're going. So, you might as well just put your hands behind your back. >> Stop. >> Because you're going to you're going to continue. >> Why are you grabbing my wrist like that? >> Listen to me. Listen to me. Listen. >> Chill. Behind your back. >> We're trying to We're trying to get you to chill. >> I don't want to have to fight you. Come on. >> Chill. >> Stop. >> Look, dude. Why are you doing this? >> Because you are not You're not working with us. >> Don't grab me. >> What the [ __ ] are you doing? >> We're good. Let go of my foot. >> What are you doing? >> In your arm. >> What are you doing? Ow. >> Ow. What are you doing? >> Be still. >> Huh? You can't go anywhere now. Strong boy. Archer. What the hell? Bro, what? What are you doing? >> Standing up. >> You going to walk now? >> You didn't resist. >> This arrest reportedly marks the 25year-old's third DUI charge since 2019. >> You going to walk now? >> Strong boy, aren't you? >> You're getting resisting, too. >> Strong boy, aren't you? What do you >> stop? What are you doing? Ow. >> Help. Help. >> What are y'all doing? >> You're under. >> Help. Help. >> Chill out. >> Help. >> We tried. >> Help. Help. >> He got too far, too. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, right. Yeah. You think you You think >> Sh just shush. Just be quiet. >> You're being silly. Stand up. Let's walk to the car. >> Set me in there. The you where we're going. The [ __ ] car's right there. Your car. In >> your car. Ow. Did you search your positive? >> No. >> Oh my god. Check it. >> You don't have a pocket clear. >> We got something in that one. >> Where? >> I think it's a wallet. >> It's a wallet. Are you stupid? It's >> a wallet. >> Two for two today. >> Oh, hell. Stop. Stop. Sit down. Okay. >> Stop. >> Go in the corner. >> Please stop. >> Sit down. >> What are you doing? >> Stop. >> Swing your feet. >> Stop. >> Put your feet in. >> Please stop. >> Put your feet in. >> I will stop. >> Please stop. >> Oops. Next, one officer gets a chance to look in the suspect's car. >> Here's his ID. >> I'm going to take pictures of that open bottle in there. He's got a full Amsterdam vodka bottle in the center console. where he finds an open bottle of vodka on the passenger side floorboard. A likely accomplice in the alleged crime [music] >> [music] >> Am I good to dump this? >> Huh? >> I took one. for three. The vodka bottle is dumped and discarded before Hunter is sent on his way to a medical center. But while in rude, he has some, let's just say, unkind words for police. >> Doesn't mean [screaming] help. and say uh 74 be >> headquarters. >> Help. >> Help. Please help. >> Enter out to the hospital beginning in following. >> You need to clarify which hospital >> we're going to the med center. I don't want any dirty. No help. These dirty are >> these dirty >> negative sting do one block. Dirty stingy nasty >> 20 minutes apart. >> Disgusting [ __ ] >> Mr. You can read it. I can sense it through my search. >> Okay. >> What are you big man? Dirty [ __ ] >> That's what you are. Dirty. >> What are you hear me? Hello. Do you hear me? That's the way you are. >> Slow. >> So, what charges you got? >> Soon enough, Hunter says something that adds to his growing list of charges. Listen closely. Slow down. Right here. You hear me? >> Did you hear that? >> That sounded like terroristic threatening right there. If I was you, I'd shut up. >> I see you. >> If I was you, I'd shut up. I see you looking back. >> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead and do it. Go ahead and do it. >> What's your Wi-Fi number? >> Go ahead and do it. >> Go ahead and do it. >> 95. >> Go ahead and do it. >> 98. I don't know what the location. >> You heard that right. Hunter allegedly threatened to quote break the officer's neck, earning him even more serious charges. >> Here you are. Step on the gas. >> Here you go. Step out of that goddamn gas. There you go. She She's a NASCAR driver, y'all. She's a car. God, >> slow things. Here we go. Slow down, y'all. Yeah. Yeah. Slow down. God, this is so [ __ ] cool. Here we go. Driving down your [ __ ] Sain Street. Yay. Here we go. Slow. Slow down. Slow down. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Ow. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Yay. God, he's so good. Right. Huh? He's so good. Oh, he's so good. Oh yes, that's a good turn. That's a good turn. He's so good. He's so good. God, you black ladies with this. God, look at these black. Y'all are amazing. Do you hear me? Hello. Hello. Y'all are awesome. >> I see you smiling. I see you smiling. You hear you see me? I see you smiling. >> Now at the medical center, officers prepare to escort Hunter inside. And as you might have guessed, he's not exactly having it. >> Get out. >> Are you good? >> Do you want me to take your feet out for you? >> Are you good? >> Are you good? Cuz you're not acting like it. Put your feet out. >> You're not acting like you're doing it. Get your hands off me >> then. Get out on your nasty [ __ ] >> Come on. >> Yeah, you >> put your feet out. Let's go. >> Get out. >> You can't put your hands on me. >> Yeah. Dirty. >> Come on. >> Yeah. Do not put your hands on me. >> Then get up. Do not put your hands on me. You either sl you. What the >> I want to do the >> Let's go, man. >> Are you serious? >> I'm serious. >> Oh my god. >> This is for one illegal. >> It's not illegal. >> Press me against the door, please. I would love it. Please. >> Sure you would. >> Are you still fighting? >> Throw him. >> Are you still fighting? Moments later, Hunter is released when officers once again are tasked with getting him in a patrol car. >> Hey, baby. >> Why are you all doing this? >> My god. >> Like, like you all got anywhere to be >> like the you all going to do after you come back in there? >> Are you Are we going to do this again? >> Oh, no. Sit in the car. >> Are you not going to take these off people? >> No. >> What the damn >> take these off me? >> Go. >> Come on. >> You all have to take these cuffs off me >> when you go to the jail. >> You are going to take these off me. >> Okay, I will. Stop. >> I will. Stop. >> Sit. >> Ow. Theying hurt my wrist. >> Are you still >> They hurt. >> Sit. That's That's your >> baby. Tell him to take your baby. Stop calling me that in the car. >> All right. Once in route to jail, Hunter makes an about face and starts singing a different tune. >> Hey girl. >> I'm so sorry. >> Baker 56 headquarters. interrupt to the jail beginning. Same as ending. >> I would like to formally apologize to you. I am sorry. >> I'm going have to back up. >> I am sorry for the way I treated you. >> I am so sorry. My my stepdaughter is actually blank. >> Hunter's repeated apologies don't do him any favors as he's booked for operating a motor vehicle under the influence, possession of an open alcoholic beverage container in a motor vehicle, thirdderee terroristic threatening, disorderly conduct, and resisting arrest. At last check, his case remains open. Hello. Hey. Hey. Lakewood police. Megan. Megan. Megan. Hey. Hey. Megan. Megan. Megan. Hey. Hey. Megan. Megan. Hey, Megan. Look at me. Look at me. Megan. Megan. Look at me. Look at me. I'm Officer Cooper. What's going on, Megan? Megan. Megan. Stay with me. What's going on right now? You're passed out in the Taco Bell drive. What's going on? Nope. Turn the car off. Turn the car off. Turn the Megan. Turn the car off. Turn the car off. Press the button and turn No. Press. Don't. No. Press the button to turn the car off. What's going on tonight? Um, I'm sorry. They didn't. I planned on us getting the home. They didn't say it's safe. >> I don't understand a little bit of any part of what you just said. So, we got a call that you're passed out in the drive-thru right now. And so, I come here and I see you slumped over at the wheel. >> Yeah. This is the second time we got called. >> Second time. >> Yes. The first time you weren't here. So the second time when I got here >> the second time I called the first time. >> You called the first time on yourself? >> Yeah. I said my guys Yeah. Oh, now I'm being called. >> Okay. I think you're confused. What's going on? >> I'm sorry. >> Have you been drinking at all tonight? >> No. >> Are you sure? >> 100%. >> So, what have you been doing tonight then? >> I was making sure everybody's okay. Who's Who's everybody? No, no, don't turn the car on. Leave it off. What were you doing? What's What's been going on tonight? Cuz this is, like I said, the second time I've been called to you passed down the drive-thru. But this time, we actually found you. And when I pulled up, you were slumped over, completely passed out. So, what's explain to me what's going on? Where is my boyfriend? >> I don't know. He's not here. >> Yeah, he's not here. >> Do you have your driver's license on you? >> Yeah. >> Sorry. >> Megan, do you have your insurance with you? I do have insurance. >> I'm sorry. >> What were you drinking tonight, Megan? What were you drinking tonight? Uh um I don't drink very much. >> No. >> No. >> Can you do me a favor? >> Yes. >> Do you know your alphabet? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Can you state it? Don't sing it. Just state it. >> The alphabet. >> Yes. The alphabet. >> Like A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P. >> Okay. Keep going. QR S T U V W X Y N Z. >> Okay. Can I see the insurance? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Where were you at tonight? >> Um, we were at a friend's house, actually. >> Okay. What were you guys doing at that friend's house? >> Um, we were hanging out. What the hell? Seriously, I'm sorry. >> What? Okay, here's the thing. So, I can It smells like you've been drinking tonight. So, just What were you drinking? >> What were you doing at your friend's house? >> Um, >> honestly, we had not a lot of drinks. >> Okay. But you had some. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I'm What I'm going to have you if you could just unbuck your seat belt. Okay, >> unbuck your seat belt. >> Okay, go ahead and step out of the car for me. >> Could you head west check around the corner 186 Detroit? Female called said that she lives above the bar. She said that sounded like someone's head was smashed into a vehicle. Said that she didn't see anything. This is just what she thought she heard. >> So I played volleyball. >> Okay. around the corner. >> A copy lake head that way as well. Detroit >> just a few minutes, but she was passed away. >> Okay, come on. Go ahead and step out. Don't Don't turn this car on. Step out of the car. Okay. You wanted to yell at me. >> You're just not following directions very well right now. So, >> okay, we're going to go over here. >> If it's all right with you, I'm going to run you through just a few tests just to make sure you're okay. Is that all right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Just one second. We have to just cut the lights. Is there Is there anything wrong with your head? Any recent head injuries? Do you wear glasses? Do you wear contacts? >> Okay. So, they Yeah. Let's go over here. Go ahead and take your hands out of your pockets for me. Just over this way. What I'm going to have you do is just put your feet together, arms at your sides, and then just keep your head straight, and then can you see my finger? What I need you to do is just focus on it with your eyes. Your eyes only. And do not move your head. Does that make sense? >> Just my finger. Your eyes. Your eyes don't take off. >> Okay. Okay. That works better that way. >> Just don't move your head. your eyes. Okay. >> With your eyes and your eyes up. Just keep your head. >> Only follow your eyes. Okay. >> Got it. >> Okay. Perfect. Stay safe. That's it. Straight. Your eyes open. >> Okay. Perfect. >> Fond your finger. with my eyes. >> With your eyes only. >> Got it. >> Y >> got it. >> Okay, perfect. Okay. >> Same thing. Okay. >> Okay. I know it's so far right now. Now this time again just with your This next test I have to do is going to be to walk the train. So we need to starting position. Okay. >> So you're having issues with any balance of your legs? I mean, I don't know. >> No, no. I'm asking you the question. Do you have any issues with balance or anything wrong? >> Not usually. >> Okay. >> All right. >> So, would you agree that this is pretty flat right here? >> It's fine. >> I I just got to ask just make sure. I want to make it fair for you. >> I know. I'm freezing. >> I understand. >> All right. >> Okay. >> What? >> So, we're going to have you down arms to your sides. >> Okay. >> So, I need you to put your left foot on the line. >> Left. >> Just imagine there's a line. >> Just imagine there's a line going up. Just put your left foot on that line. >> Got it. >> And put your right foot in front. >> Got it. >> Gild the toe. >> I'm not them. Just build the toe. Arms at your side. Put that right foot in front. Put your right foot in front of your left foot. You toe. >> Your side. Stay in position. I tell you to move. >> Okay. So, I have you real >> I'm sorry I didn't see you. >> Male was cited and released to care of the hospital unit. >> I want to give you, >> you know, best advantage you can right now. >> I got it. >> Okay. >> But like I said, put you back in starting position. Left foot on the left. Right in front. In front. Heel the toe. >> Arms at your sides. Fill it to with it. Make sure that right. There you go. >> Right foot in front of it. Heel to toe. Arms at the sides. >> Don't move. Go ahead. >> Okay. Don't move. >> Don't move until I tell you to start. Okay. Essentially, what have you do is make a series of nice small elbow steps on the line. Turn around. Come back. I'll demonstrate for you. Okay? So, it looks something like this. So, you're going to go one, two, three. I'm only doing three. You'll do nine. And on your ninth step, you leave your lead foot on the line. With your other foot, make a small series of steps to turn around. Okay. >> I'm not done. Get back in the position. Starting position. >> Right. Yep. Left foot on the line. >> Right foot. Heel to toe in front. Remember? >> Got it. >> I know. >> Heel heel to toe. Why not? >> You're not heel to toe right now. >> No, I'm not ready to start. >> No, but you have to stay in the starting position until I tell you. So, real quick, we'll readjust. Nope. Nope. Don't start. >> Okay. Left foot on that line. >> Sorry. >> Left foot on the line. That's wrong way. That's They have it reversed. Left foot and then right foot in front of it. Stay right there. Nope. Right there. Okay. So, I'll restart real quick. So, like I said, >> right now >> I got to explain it to you. Okay. >> No, I got it. >> Okay. Well, I'm just going to finish. Okay. So, you're going to do one, two, three, like I said, all the way to nine. Then leave your lead foot on the line. So, your small steps are around. And then nine back. So, again, I'm only doing three. You'll do nine. Now, during the test, I need you to watch your feet while you're walking. Count your steps out loud. Once you start, do not stop. And count your steps out loud for me. Okay. >> Got it. >> Are you ready? >> I'm freezing. >> Okay, I understand. Like I said, keep your arms at your side. >> All right. >> And you can start. >> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >> Okay, you got to do the turn now. >> Okay. And then nine, you'll sew back. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >> Okay, so we're going to do one more test. Okay, >> got it. >> It's going to be the onelegged stand test. Okay, >> that's fine. >> Okay, so we're going to put your feet together, arms at your sides. >> Now, don't move until I tell you to. >> It's so windy, though. >> You think that's going to affect it right now? >> No. Okay. >> Maybe I will be blown over, but >> Okay. We'll try our best right now. Okay. >> So, arms at your sides, feet together. Don't move until I tell you to. Okay. >> So, I'm going to have you do is you're going to pick up one leg. It's your choice. Either leg >> with your foot approximately 6 in off the ground with your foot parallel to the ground. It's going to with your leg straight. It's going to look something like this. >> And what I'm going to have you do is I'm going to have you look down at your foot and you're going to count out loud 1,00 1,002 1 3 and so on until I tell you to stop. >> Okay. Okay. >> Do you understand these instructions? Y. >> Okay. Wait, wait. Are you ready? >> Oh my god, it's so windy. Like, it's against me. I >> know. Okay. Are you ready? >> I don't know. >> This is kind of windy, but All right. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> 100,00 1,002 1,00 >> Keep your arms at your side. >> 100,004. >> Make that foot parallel. >> Just keep going. >> Oh boy. 1,006 1007 1008 1009 >> Okay, you go and stop. >> Okay. So, go ahead and turn around for me. Going to put your hands behind your back. You're going to rest your eye. >> I'm that guy. >> He just Yes. went over that curb like a >> like really bad like that. I wasn't I was Yeah, that was crazy cuz he was watching us instead of watching what he was doing. Nice. >> I do have the right side. >> Yes, but based on what I just observed. >> You're you're intoxicated. Okay. So, you're under arrest. You can't you can't obviously be intoxicated to drive a vehicle. >> So, we got a call earlier that you were passed out in the line. I came >> somebody called an employee or somebody in line and then you left. Do you do you live in >> Why did you come back here? You left and then came and then came back because I >> I'm so sorry. You would have just came like left. >> So stupid. >> You none of this would be happening because I looked and you were glad when you live. >> Where do you live? >> I live. >> Yeah. So you were I checked all the way down there. You were gone. So I don't know what made you >> speaking. No. >> Who do you live with? Do you live with somebody? >> Yeah. >> They can come pick you up at the jail, but we have to go through a bunch of other paperwork before before you can go home. But you can go home. Okay. But it's going to take probably another hour or so. Okay. Nothing that's going to poke me in here or anything? Nothing. >> Nothing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Like I said, so you went home and decided to come back. >> Yeah. To Taco Bell cuz I'm starving. >> Yeah. Well, I mean >> I know it's so stupid. >> Like I said, you would have just stayed home. We wouldn't be in this situation cuz >> So sorry. >> We were out looking for you earlier and there was uh you know, you weren't you were gone. So >> your feet can't come off this. >> Here. It's right here. >> Yeah. Don't be sorry. >> I mean, don't be sorry to me. I mean, what's this gum in here? >> Um, what is that? I don't even know what that is. >> That's like a candy wrapper. >> Oh, it's like a Dove wrapper. >> It's Who do you live with? >> Um, my boyfriend. >> Yeah, he can. He can come get you. >> Sure. >> Sorry. I >> We don't have any more pockets in here. >> No. These are leggings. So, no. No. Okay. No pockets. >> No. We got to go do some more paperwork at the station and then he can come get you. Okay. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm sorry. >> That's good. Is there anything in your car that you might need? >> Um, >> like phone by chance? >> Is there a phone in there? >> Okay, I'll take your >> Okay, I'll grab your phone. I'll grab your phone once we put you in the car. Grab your phone. All right. >> All right. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I am. >> I need to check. I just >> What's your name? >> Megan. >> Don't take a second. Just backwards. Yes. >> Yep. >> She She definitely went home and parked in her driveway cuz I drove >> and did not see her. >> Yep. She must have been home and then decided to come back >> and look where she's at now. And then when they called me, I was all the way at 117 at max. Then I'm like, "Okay, well, >> I don't I know what your eight hour day." >> Yeah. Well, when I came, there was another car next. I thought, "Oh, maybe like they're talking." And then that car went and I was like, "Nope, they're not talking." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, this comes back to North Oakland, so it must be different. But >> yeah, she's I mean, she That's why I asked her. like, "Do you live?" She obviously went home and cuz like I said, I went all the way down >> and she she was I mean, she was gone. >> [snorts] >> destination. 62 Kennesaw. Did he advise what van? I got three white vans. I got three. So 10. I got three white vans. Nobody's come out of them. >> I got contact. What's up, man? >> We're the ones that call. >> Okay. What's up? Uh, basically we went in there, purchased a food. Um, I guess it's something wrong with their server. Pors tried to order on a little box. She said that wasn't working. He had to stop us from ordering. Go help her. >> Okay. >> So, it's he probably frustrated at work. You know what I'm saying? That's the whole scenario. What I did. >> So, why did y'all call? Like, what happened? >> Because we ordered the food. Um, he couldn't print us a receipt. >> Okay. >> Um, so he said the receipt would be printed in the back. So, I said, "Okay." So, we sat down. me and my fiance looking for homes around here. >> We uh went back to Progressive Reynolds looking at homes. >> Um I guess our order was called but we don't even know our order number. >> Okay. >> You know what I'm saying? So now our food is sitting there cold. So when I come up I say you know I try to fry the fries are they're lukewarm but they're not hot. >> Okay. >> You know what I'm saying? So I just asked him can we get some fresh fresh fries? >> Okay. >> He said okay the fries are not hot. Touch the fries. He said no they're not hot. At this point you don't touch them. So you know >> Yeah. Can I just get a fresh set? >> Okay. >> So he getting the fries. I said can I also get the receipt? That was five minutes ago. >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? He Excuse me, sir. Five minutes ago. I can I can run my store however I want to run my store. This sir, I'm done paid. He said, "Matter of fact, you can leave my property. Get off my property now or you can come and get uh I do a refund." I said, "Sir, with with um cash up card, this is three to seven business days. Do a refund. Just give me my set of fries in my receipt. That's what you're supposed to do anyway when I pay for my order." >> Okay. >> This is not my my store. He tell me this is his business. He own this. Like, it's not. We just the fries and the burger. >> Okay. Do you have your ID on you? >> No, sir. >> Okay. Well, I have to get your information. >> Okay. >> What's your last name? >> Uh, Sims. >> S I M S. >> S I N E S. >> E S. And first name? >> A N T O I N E. >> O I A N E. A N T O I A N E. What's your birthday? What's a good telephone number for you? All right. So, I'm going to go and let you know he called as well. So, y'all both called? >> Yeah, we called. >> So, I'm going to go in and talk to him. Um, hey, Carl. Will you hang out with him? >> All right. He's going to hang out with you for a second. Okay. I'm going to go and talk to him real quick. >> Yeah. Let's go inside. Let's talk inside. Outside of here somewhere. I don't want I don't want us to be outside talking. >> It's fine. >> We can talk right here. We can go inside. It don't matter. So, what happened? >> Okay. So, break it down for me. >> Okay. >> He says that he's all his food is cold. >> Okay. >> He's burning my hands. So, whatever. That's, you know, not, you know, doesn't really matter. >> Okay. Cussing me. You better give me fresh five month. >> What? Here's a little old lady and she just came up to his sister and talked to the police. He said, "No, no, yeah, I got this." But he starts losing it, starts shoving his food at me. >> Mhm. >> And I said, "So," he said, "I said, well, but tell you what, you can take your business elsewhere. Give me a car. Give me a refund." No, you're not going to give me an effort refund. You're giving me food and my money back. Said, "Okay, look, sir." Start shoving his food. I took his food. So, he's got nothing to shove at me cuz next thing you know, he's throwing his drink at me. Mhm. >> So I took excluding took a whole sprite put it in the trash. Here's your give me your card. I'll give you a refund. Take your business elsewhere. Please don't come back. >> Okay. >> Scream at me. I want him CT. You know, >> did you give him his refund? Like is that refused to? You're not going to give me a refund. >> Okay. This is the way he was talking. >> So I want him CT. I don't want to ever have him back. Okay. Dude's obviously on probation. Got ankle bracelet on. >> Okay. What is um your information too if you have your ID? That' be much easier. Perfect. And we >> new guys. >> Uh I mean I've been around for over a year. I just I don't think I've ever met you. Did you just take ownership or? >> Uh been around since 2011. >> Okay. >> Usually up at J. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. What's a good telephone number for you? >> And you have to have his card to do a refund. >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't want it back in here. If you want to give me his card, I'll give you his refund. >> Okay. Well, you're not going to give him any more food. So, you're not going to like remake. >> Okay. I mean, that's it's your business. You're right. I'm just asking. >> I told him it's my business card. It's not. >> All right. >> I'll be right back. Okay. >> Mhm. >> 116. Can you run one name in Edworth? Last name Sierra India Mike Echo Sierra first name Alpha November Tango Oscar India Alpha November Echo Bravo Mike. All right. So, here's the deal. As a business owner, he has the right to not remake your food. He is willing to do a refund. He has no problems doing a refund, but he's not going to remake your food. As a business owner, he can do that. >> Um, he does not want you coming back in the store. He actually wants us to crimally trespass you, so you will not be allowed back at this McDonald's. >> I don't even I >> It doesn't matter. He's requested it. We got to do it. It's not a big deal. It's a piece of >> charge you. >> No, we're not charging you. next piece of paper we're going to give you that's going to say, "Hey, you can't come back to this McDonald's." That's all it is. >> Wow. Like, no. Just like just realistically, did I do anything? >> I don't know. I I'm not here to even figure that out. I'm here to I'm here to keep the peace. >> Like, this is a >> Yeah, this is completely civil. So, >> yeah. Okay. >> No, no, I don't want to complain about it. >> No, no. I just I'm just don't understand what I did wrong with this. >> No, you're good. Um, do you have CT forms? >> Okay. I have CT forms. That's fine. Um, it's not a big deal. So, look. All right. So, this is civil, okay? As a business owner, he has the right to refuse service to anyone he chooses to refuse service to. Just like if you own a business, you have the same right to do the same thing. If you own a physical business, like you have you can CT, you can CT whoever the hell you want. You can do whatever as long as it's within the law. And that's within the law. Okay? All right. So, hang out with him. I'm going to get that form. It's a simple form that says, "Hey, just don't come back to this McDonald's." Now, I'll tell you, if you do come back to this McDonald's, will you get called out here? No, you >> go. I'm not. I got a smart. >> So, um, you cool with a refund? >> Uh, yeah. You got to go in there and tap my car. >> Yeah. I will get that in just a second. Okay. >> Okay. >> Go ahead. Terri 14 and 17. The callig now landing with the female. 107 district >> and the daughter is inside with her door locked. She should be the only one and >> wanted person. Caution. Violence. Armed and dangerous. showing 2013. >> What's up, man? >> Hey, I don't know if he's holding that, but he's being slick over here. He's got a big damn ankle mon. >> I got you. I know. I got you. Uh, no, you're good. >> Mhm. Oh, um, he's going to do the refund, so I'll get you the card here in a second. Okay. License status suspended. 24 year old male. Wanted person. Caution. Violence. Armed and dangerous. >> 116. 11:16 >> suspended 24y old male. >> What's your ETA 10462 Kennes? It looks like we just found the same ID. >> You go ahead and confirm that. 10 384 522 Cool. Okay. All right. Spell your um last name for me. >> S I M E S. >> Okay. Um where's your driver's license out of? >> I don't have Okay. >> My name's >> Okay. S I M. Spell your first name again. A N Z O I N E >> O I N A >> O I N E >> O I N E. >> So I'm basically just banned from here. >> Correct. >> Not Kenn. um his name their name I can't remember how we got new forms so I don't >> his name here and then the manager name >> so he's the manager or somebody else >> he's uh he's the owner >> so that's why he feels like it said if you want to take any call >> no this is just 10 10 bucks I don't know yet, man. >> Shades. >> Authorized representative. >> What's the address here? Uh look up. So there's possibly a 104 1099 2049 compar. >> Yeah, I got it. Yeah. Give me just a second. >> Excuse me. No, nothing like that. >> Yeah. No, I'm going to get here and fill this out. Yeah. Just whatever. Huh? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. All right, Mr. Sim, come over here. I'm going have you sign this. >> I'm not under arrest or anything. >> No, sir. Just come over here. I'm going have you sign this real quick. >> I said I'm not under arrest. >> No. No, you're not. >> Yeah. Just come over here. I'm have you sign this real quick. >> You have to sign anything come back to the property. >> So, you'll fill this part out. >> Can I see it, sir? >> Yeah. Can you come over here, man? >> No. I'm I'm afraid of y'all, sir. 3 years, sir. I'm afraid. >> All right. I'm I'm going to walk you through. Why are you doing that? >> I know how to fill it out. >> Why are you doing that? >> I know how to Am I right? >> Yeah. >> Don't listen to me. Car car. 6 car cop. Got him. Contact. Contact backside. Backside, >> huh? >> I need to go to the hospital. >> I'll fail, too. >> I can't get a pulse on her. >> It was supposed to be a quick trip to the Taco Bell drive-thru. Instead, it was the last thing this Ohio woman ever [music] did. >> Somebody was murdered in front of the top of Grand Road. >> The gunman first rearended her vehicle [music] and after that pulled out his illegal weapon. >> The reality is is criminals can get anything [music] they want um on the black market. >> It's something most of us do from time to time, visit the drive-thru. But on August 14th, that decision proved deadly for 25-year-old Megan Kellerman. She was a recent graduate from Cleveland State University, just receiving her master's degree in business administration this May. Before that, she'd already earned a bachelor's degree in finance and financial management services. In her free time, Kellerman was a volunteer coach for Girls on the Run Northeast Ohio, which promotes running and exercise for elementary school-aged girls. Kellerman coached girls ages 3rd to fifth grade. And according to her friends, the runners looked up to her as a role model. But the tragedy of Kellerman's death, a senseless murder still echoes in the city of Stow, Ohio, just 45 minutes south of Cleveland. That's where Calluman visited her local Taco Bell on the evening of Wednesday, August 14th. She'd even brought her dog along for the ride, but the usual routine pickup didn't go as planned. According to witnesses, it was about 7:30 when Kellerman drove into the drive-thru line before another car. We've since learned that driver was 53-year-old Jason Williams. As she approached the speaker to order, Williams began honking his horn at her repeatedly and eventually even rammed his vehicle into Kellerman's car, rear ending her. Through the speaker, Kellerman called out to the Taco Bell employee, asking them to call 911 and say her vehicle had just been rammed. But within seconds, Williams got out of his vehicle and approached Kellerman. Without hesitation, he pulled the trigger. Kellerman was pronounced dead on the scene, having died of gunshot wounds to the neck. >> All deaths are senseless in my opinion, right? No one no one deserves to die, but this one, I mean, there is just absolutely no motive. As convoluted, right, as some of them are in the cases we talk about, there is nothing that I can see in this other than it sounds to me like someone became frustrated that she was taking too long in the drive-through line. To break down everything we know about the story so far, we reached out to former CIA officer and FBI agent Tracy Walder. She says this incident was almost entirely unprovoked and unfortunately is similar to crimes we've seen in the past. >> Yes, road rage is kind of one of the first things that came to me, especially because it seems to me based on the reporting that witnesses were said that they heard him honking at her. So he either something transpired that they didn't see or he just felt that she was taking to him. I don't know the answer to that question because that hasn't been reported, but it's been reported in multiple locations and by people that they did hear him honk. So it does seem to me that this is a a road rage, possibly unprovoked road rage incident. And Williams' actions before the shooting, like extreme honking and rear ending Kellerman's car, could have indicated he was willing to escalate the situation. I don't mean to sound cavalier, but yes, in my opinion, if something is somebody is going to go to the point to rear end your vehicle, inflict damage on their vehicle and yours, then in my opinion, it can escalate anything. And she did tell the drive-thru um individuals, you know, to call the police when that rear ending happened. And I just think that in my opinion in this day and age, you cannot be too careful with drivers being aggressive. You just can't. And you have to think that it is going to go to the most horrible place, which in this case it did. >> Investigators have since released some 14 911 calls about the incident as multiple witnesses called in to report the shocking crime. >> No. No. the person in the car behind him. >> Where's your emergency? >> Um, somebody was murdered and the murderer just killed themselves in front of the Taco Bell and Graham Road. >> You said Taco Bell on Graham? >> Yeah. Um, there was just a murder and the murderer just killed himself in our drive-thru right now. >> Yep. We've got police and fire on their way. They're going to be there as soon as they can. Can >> Please hurry up. This is an emergency. Please. >> Here's the recording from another witness. And we have to warn you, this one is a bit more disturbing. >> Um, I'm at the I'm at the Taco Bell on Graham Road in Hudson Drive and a man just shot somebody and then shot himself in the head. >> Do you have a description? >> Um, I I I didn't see very much. I just told he he was bald. He's His car is in the drive-thru. I'm sorry. I'm really shaken up. Um, and he had a black shirt on and I just I just watched him shoot himself in the head. >> Okay. And both subjects are still there, correct? >> Um, yeah. The guy's like dead in the drive-thru. I I I don't know where the other person is, but he shot somebody and then he just put the gun under his chin and he shot himself in the head. >> What's difficult about this case is there's no known motive. At a press conference following Kellerman's death, officers straight up said we may never know what led up to her murder. It's also confusing because as far as we know now, Williams never had any previous connection with Kellan. >> I think that makes it scarier to everyone. Um, you know, actually we actually had this exact same thing happened that I was a witness to about a year ago. Um, on my way to my Pilates class at 5:00 a.m., um, there was a shooting right in front of me at a McDonald's drive-thru, but it was a gang shooting. And so our neighborhood at first, until people could figure out what had gone on, were very, very scared because they thought that this killer who was killing random people was on the loose. It's not to say that gang members deserve to die. They absolutely don't. But when news of this came out that this was a gang-on gang violence situation, our community sort of was at ease a bit more and that people were able to say, "Okay, well, I'm not in that gang and I'm not in that rival gang, so therefore I could be protected." Right now, when you don't have a situation like that and it's purely a random crime, you feel like it's a free-for-all, that anybody could be a target at that point. And so, I think that's probably why it's more scary in a lot of these cases. One of the things that helps these victims, their lives are never going to be the same in any way, shape, or form is this sense of applying justice to who did that. But him choosing his own form of justice is another way of taking power um away from from this victim's family. Before the shooting, Williams already had a lengthy criminal history, most recently being arrested on March 26th of this year. >> How much have you had to drink tonight? enough to be bad. Okay. Williams was pulled over for driving erratically and when law enforcement approached his window, they smelled a strong odor of alcohol. He refused a breathalyzer test, but later officials determined he had a blood alcohol content of.19. That's basically three times the legal limit. Inside Williams' vehicle, investigators found a near empty bottle of Captain Morgan and a loaded Glock 30 pistol along with a loaded magazine. That gun was reportedly stolen by Williams himself. He faced multiple charges for that incident, including BAC refusal, an OVI, which is the Ohio charge for driving under the influence, and improperly handling firearms. >> Stop the car. What are you doing? Put your hands on the wheel for me. Put your hands on the wheel. On the wheel. What are you doing, sir? You're driving the wrong way on a one-way street. >> What are you doing? Sir, can you answer me? Do you know why you're going the wrong way on a oneway? >> I'm sorry. >> 123 radio. Can I get it back? Do you know why? >> No. >> Okay. I'm officer Hill Hudson Police. >> I stopped you for a multitude of things, including stopping in the middle of the road, going through a stop sign, and then now you're driving the wrong way on a one-way street. >> Do you have your driver's license? >> I'll start that way as well. >> Where are you trying to go? >> Home. >> Huh? >> Home. >> Where's home? Aurora. >> Aurora. >> Yes. >> Where are you coming from? >> Where are you coming from? >> Aurora. I'm sorry. >> No, you said you're trying to go home to Aurora. >> Where are you coming from? >> Aurora. >> Okay. Where did you go to? Where was your stop, sir? >> 153. Y >> can you answer me that? >> Where was your stop? >> My stop was Aurora. >> Okay, that doesn't make any sense to me. You came from Aurora, but you're going to Aurora, and your stop was in Aurora. Do you know where you are right now? >> Yes, I am. where >> um I'm here in uh Hudson. >> Okay. So, what brought you to right here is what my question is. >> Um I'm trying to get home to Aurora. >> Okay. But what brought you here to Hudson? >> I I have no idea. >> You have no idea. Okay. How much have you had to drink tonight? >> Enough to be bad. Okay. All right. Do you have the truck in park? >> Okay. Can you turn it off for me? >> Yes. >> All right. All right. I'm just going to have you sit right there for a second. Okay. >> I'm sorry. >> All right. I'll be back to you. All right. So, what's your first name again? >> Jason. >> Jason. All right. I'm going to have you step out for me. Okay. Okay. >> You don't have any weapons on you, right? >> No, of course not. >> Okay. Just making sure. All right. Do you want to set your phone down there and step out for me? >> Sure. >> Okay. Watch your step there. There's a curb here. We're going to go on this sidewalk right over here. Okay. >> Okay. Is your door okay or do you want me to shut it for you? >> I'm good. >> Okay, I'm good. We'll shut it for you. Okay. >> All right, Jason. >> All right, Jason. >> Can you stand over here for me? >> Sure. >> Can you stand right here in front of me? >> Sure. >> And face toward me. Okay. >> All right. >> Mhm. >> You okay? >> Yeah, I'm good. >> Trying to find the flattest area. >> Maybe up a little more. >> Yeah. >> Are you okay? >> Yeah, I'm good. >> I don't want you to fall. >> I'm good. >> Okay. All right. You're okay right there? >> Yeah, I'm good. >> Okay. All right. I'm going to run you through some tests, okay? To see if you're okay to continue driving. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I don't want to do that. >> You don't want to do that? >> No. >> You're not going to do my tests? >> No. Okay. You're not going to let me check your eyes or anything like that? >> Okay. Is there a reason why? >> I don't want to do that. >> You don't want to do that? >> Nope. >> But you don't have a reason why? >> No. >> Okay. Are you okay? >> Yeah, I'm good. >> Okay. All right. Well, based off my observations of your driving behavior, >> my observations of your behavior standing right here. Mhm. >> And your admission to drinking more than you should have. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to place you under arrest if you're not going to do my test. >> Sure. >> If you're going to do my test, it'll give you a chance to show me that you're not impaired. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Do you want to do the test? >> No, I don't want to. >> Okay. Turn around then. >> Okay. >> Gotcha. >> Okay. Turn your wrist for me. Just like this. Yeah. >> Easy does it. Have a seat right in here. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Watch your head there. There you go. >> All right, sir. All right. You're under arrest for operating vehicle unpaired. Okay. He was arrested on multiple things. Driving the wrong way, uh gosh, triple the legal limit of alcohol, uh a loaded weapon in his vehicle. All of those things, watches, expensive watches, all found in his vehicle. Um why he was let out on bond is is beyond me. This person is a clear danger. Um and one of those things was that he was not to own a gun. That was part of his bond. Um and so this was an individual that was facing possibly some prison time. Um, I don't know what his family situation was. I don't know what his economic situation was, but those could all be contributed factors to this spiraling, I guess. I hate to sound tright, but you you really can't prevent that. I don't know how you would because there's an entire black market uh for stolen weapons. And it's very easy to come by them, particularly handguns, revolvers, those kinds of things. The reality is is criminals can get anything they want um on the black market. And so it's not surprising to me one bit um that he had a weapon which again that's why I disagree quite frankly uh with him being allowed on bomb because the reality is is so easy for a criminal um to to get these things. So I'm not one bit surprised that he had a weapon on his person. Investigators have since said Williams was in crisis at the time of the shooting but haven't given any more specifics. I asked Walder what this could mean and if that could have led to Williams's decision to pull the trigger. >> I think as you mentioned before, this was an individual in crisis and what he had been arrested for in the past. I'm not minimizing it at all, but you know, it was drunk driving. It was theft. It was having a weapon that wasn't registered, those kinds of things. He hadn't been arrested for attempted murder, murder, battery, assault, those kinds of things. And so I think this is obviously huge escalation right in his behavior. And I think that this was his kind of last straw, if you will. I don't think he wanted to go back to prison. Um but I also think he couldn't control a lot of his thoughts um and his emotions. And so I think part of this was feeling badly about what he did. And then the other part um was not wanting to go back to prison because he obviously would have. >> After William shot and killed Kellerman, he turned the gun on himself. He saw somebody and then he just put the gun under his chin and he shot himself in the head. >> Body camera video shows the moments first responders arrive on the scene. >> Let FD know. >> What >> is FD approaching? They're clear. We've chosen not to show most of the body camera video because they are pretty disturbing, but we can show you the moment first responders rescued Kellerman's dog, who was in the passenger seat during the deadly shooting. >> I'm staying on the line. I'm coming right up there. No, don't get it. >> Yeah, >> they're both victims. Oh, the one's on the ground. on the ground over there. >> Because of Williams' death, he won't face any criminal charges in Kellerman's death. But could anyone else, >> if anything, in my opinion, be about the acquisition of the gun since he is by law not allowed to have it. Um, they may, you know, trace serial numbers, trace where he purchased it from, electronic transfers, all of that. And that person could potentially be held accountable, although they're not prosecuted a lot of times. And that's obviously very frustrating, but I I think you're right. In my opinion, the only potential lead I could see them going off of is is the gun. So, my guess is the time of day that this occurred, there's a lot of witnesses um to interview. Also, I am certain that Taco Bell had CCTV cameras or some type of security cameras up. Um, I also think too I would not be surprised if the victim was using her phone during this incident to either contact police herself, contact loved ones, contact, hey, this crazy person is behind me. I I would not be surprised at all. Um, and I also think one of the things because they're probably having a hard time doing this is determining motive. Um, has he committed other crimes that they don't know about, right, that they're trying going to try to figure out? Um, or is this just sort of a one-off? And so I think the motive is is key. And I think because I really do believe they didn't know each other, that's going to be take some time in this case. >> We also asked Walder what someone should do if they find themselves in a similar situation. >> Absolutely not victim shaming at all. This she didn't deserve anything that happened to her. In my opinion, did absolutely nothing wrong. But I think just for people in general, for safety, um I think a couple couple things that we can think about. I I actually did look at this Taco Bell and I looked at the drive-thru and it actually wasn't um I think what you're referring to is just that kind of narrow lane where there's nowhere to go on either side. Um there was sort of another parking lot if you will like off to to the right of her. And so I think in that case the horn is maybe one thing, but I think once he rammed her vehicle, in my opinion, the best thing to do is to get away. Get away as fast as you can. And so that means physically getting out of line, forgoing your order, eating the cost of that and and leaving the scene. Physically removing yourself from the scene because what that is telling me is this is not a stable person who's behind me. I cannot predict that they are going to act rationally in this situation. Therefore, I'm going to remove myself, the known entity in this situation, from it. And so I think that's the best thing to do. Um, you know, I also think there was nothing wrong with her asking the drive-through attendant to contact 911. You may want to ask them first to do that and then leave the scene. Um, because he could be a danger to other people as well. Kellerman's murder is still under investigation. Even if we don't get a complete understanding of why she was killed, we may get a better look inside Williams's state of mind. I believe what I I think we believe is this is we're going to see that this is an individual who was in the midst of as you mentioned a full-fledged crisis and that is the motive here. Um that's what I think they're going to find. They're probably diving deep into his social media if he has it. I know he's in his 50s I believe so he may or may not um have been you know an avid digital media user. I I don't know. Um but again all of those things take time. Helman's friends, family, and community already had a candle lit vigil [music] in her memory. Her visitation is set for this Wednesday with a funeral to follow on Thursday.