questions because I want to know what you're doing Frank too are you in any way detaining me here at this moment okay then you enjoy your day peace exit here thank you sir just wasted my time with a completely police officers love to detain people recording in public but what happens when these people aren't doing anything illegal and are completely aware of their rights here are two complete opposite examples of how an auditor can behave in a police encounter a person named Michael goes to a place called Braidwood Illinois Nuclear Generating Station the video shows his encounter with the police who step up to him there it's important because it shows how Michael talked to the police and why it's important to protect your rights let's take a look story real fast what a little story on the power plant with the decommissioning okay not sure if you were aware of that yeah they're doing a decommissioning thing over time so we're gonna do a quick uh story on that real fast all right real you can understand they're a little sensitive about everything over here so you understand yeah I can check did I uh do anything wrong yeah cause well like I said they're very sensitive about it being uh yeah but I'm on public property being a pedestrian on the roadway that's also good now after this short for now respectful encounter something quite ironic happens a vehicle speeding past them on a nearby road which is perfect for the auditor to set an example so either way um make sure that's someone you should be going after okay got some idea though so because I am making contact with you I want to make sure you're okay and then you can go about your business that's all I'm gonna do okay technically you're not okay technically you're not allowed to be where you are right now all right because you're on the roadway you're not allowed there's no pedestrian traffic allowed on it on a roadway well it is it's just that's the way it is thank you neutral that's that's why we're interested I don't know like I said I'm just doing some uh so if it's just footage yeah and that's okay like I said I just got an idea make sure you're okay [Music] you're telling me the truth or why don't you want to give you any identification oh I mean I just figured out right you know you know First Amendment to do this Fourth Amendment not to have to give up my well you know what I'm saying you know what it is absolutely and I'm not here to violate anybody's rights not not here for that but again because of the sensitive nature of where we are the fact you're on a roadway I had somebody come to the police department and actually report you that's why I'm here okay so I'm checking you out as a it's easy to see that this officer is actually very wholesome and acting very respectfully which is actually rare to come across yet this man is still ready to argue with him take a look as things start heating up this person taking pictures I'm gonna run with you but I'm just gonna kind of put this out here okay go ahead suspicious person is that a felony or misdemeanor you see what I mean no but it gives me probable cause to investigate why you're here well you can ask the whole ID thing this is what I do I do this all the time everywhere I do a lot of audits I'm sure your department actually pretty much knows me because I've already filed a report against one of the officers and I was out here for a good hour and nobody said a damn thing okay uh well I'm kind of stuck again I wasn't aware that you were here all right we had an individual actually came to the police department right on contacted us said hey there's a guy out there taking pictures standing you know taking pictures since you were actually over there so yeah I came out right on this side based on that gosh check you out you gave me a perfect explanation hey I'm just it's going to be decommissioned I'm just taking some pictures okay that's legitimate right now that I've had contact with you though I do need to document that I spoke to you that's all that's all it is so as far as your name and if you say you've already made complaints and the police department's aware of you then well I have a hesitation to give me your name it's just my constitutional right if you know if I'm not breaking the law you know what I'm saying well you'll not be on the roadways just explained to you as a pedestrian you're not allowed okay so for any public roadway okay first of all just let me finish oh my gosh I'm not trying to be rude you're not being rude at all and I'm sorry if I'm coming off of that no no I'm not trying to be that way no we're good you are not allowed to be a pedestrian in a public way in the state of Illinois you cannot walk on a highway there's no pedestrian traffic you're not allowed not even can I walk on well technically part of the roadway is 15 feet from the center of the roadway over to here when that ends it becomes their property so then that's right private property that's why I'm staying here basically would have to have their permission to be on the private exactly but that's up to them they didn't call us technically the new plan itself is in will County's jurisdiction right so I'm not worried about that but unfortunately this roadway is ours and this is braidwood's jurisdiction so that's where I'm worried about that so the officer is concerned about the auditor standing on a roadway which is also completely understandable as there is no pedestrian traffic allowed as he explains so if he cannot stay on the road and right next to the road there's private property technically he cannot stand anywhere right well they discussed that a bit further but again if you've already made a complaint you obviously filled out your name and everything because you made a complaint oh yeah no no I'm still gonna you know do a jab I'm still gonna comply with you I'm just you know letting you know from my point of view yes I'm not trying to be argumentative or not I'm not taking it that way all right well I have no no listen I have no problems with that at all I just like I said I just want to document that I spoke to you and I explained on the call I have to have a disposition for my computer for the call so once I say hey the guys out here just taking videos hey no problem I'm on our way and I documented that was you that way if something comes down the road I can say yeah this guy Mike was your name correct right I can say hey I saw Mike and and that was it I have no interest in bothering you about being right here as long as you're off the roadway and you're not causing a a traffic answer I'm not going to bother you you just say that I couldn't be here because no pedestrians on a roadway we're not allowed on the roadway so I can't even be here though well sir then that becomes as I said before the what no I just want to see the definition the roadway is and then once you go beyond that you then would be on their private property and it would be up to them and that would be up to County it's not up to us I'm not I wouldn't worry about it unless County called us and asked us to handle the call and then that gives me the jurisdiction in outside my jurisdiction to act as a police officer yeah they have not done that the only reason why I'm asking is because you said I was able to still do this after we're done with this but I also don't want to step you know if I'm allowed to be here legally on the grass then as I know I just want to clear it up okay so let me clear that up for you okay that was the answer to the question you said I'm not doing anything illegal but when you're standing right here yeah right the shoulder of the roadway it is technically illegal yes no that's fine but that's not here for them right on no I just want to make sure that no problem I want to know my legal bounds as far as if I can stand here versus there I understand I can't be there then for safety purposes right where you are right now is the first place to be and not be on the road okay that's what I want to clear up actually the best place for you to be over in that drive right there I was actually over there yeah that's where he reported that you were yeah again that's why I'm here okay no that's fine I'm not arguing saw you he came to the police department said hey I was a little concerned with this so that now we act now that's fine sir and then we'll come down and we'll see what's going on and if everything's cool and all I want to do is just document that I spoke to you and I'll be on my way and as long as you stay up the roadway just for safety reasons I'm not interested in pursuing it all right on the roadway is not my interest today gotcha so uh alrighty so they've respectfully cleared that up as well and the other officer that just arrived to the scene doesn't seem to be causing any trouble either the auditor doesn't even mention him or try to speak to him which is interesting but then the auditor points out another problem and continues the conversation with the officer so let's hear The Other Side you know it might need to be explained to the new plants is the fact that if somebody's out here like this they're not trying to gather content to do any kind of terrorist act I mean if you really think about who's going to legitimately stand out here this long walk around get contact ipd just so they can plot something I'm just I understand you said no I'm just throwing the other side of it out now I totally get that what you're saying but you also got to think of the other side of it because basically you can get better footage off of Google than you can here oh I'm sure you could because you could zoom in from a satellite down so I mean honestly you see the whole thing exactly and I tell you they used to be very aggressive with their security and that's kind of It kind of backed off while they're doing something differently but they are they are basically under their own requirements deal right we don't we help out when they want us to because they're a big tax base to some degree for us right but I'll tell you what it's uh they do their own thing and the county usually handles anything that's in there we try to help out all right so that's the reason I got my lights on and everything because it is dangerous and staying out here that's why I'm very observant so yeah good but I understand oh yeah I know that's why I keep watching for cars if they're swerving trust me like I said I do this a lot in a lot of different areas around Chicago and yeah I'm used to that that's why I didn't take my kids with because my kids are like well can we go like uh negative yeah that's why I was going to be out here too long because I wanted to enjoy some of the day yeah or you know they go back to school tomorrow yep but uh that's what we you know like I said it's just because of the sense of nature it's because you people taking pictures or someone complains or reports it to us then we always check it out it becomes a suspicious doesn't necessarily you are but that's where it works man I'm Dave cornelli by the way oh you already got my first name these tests where people like Michael interact with the police are not just about arguing they show that everyone should know their rights and the police should respect those rights even though there might be disagreements both sides have been polite and respectful the police even when faced with Michael not wanting to share information have stayed calm and professional while checking the situation this shows that good interactions can happen between the public and the police when everyone knows what to do and is nice to each other while this encounter might have been kept on a highly professional level this next one is the complete opposite foreign next up something happened in a public building that led to this confrontation it's about protecting the rights of journalists and people who take pictures in public let's see why it's important to respect everyone's rights according to the law a breach into security here I'm asking you questions because are you in any way detaining me here at this moment okay then you enjoy your day please exit here yes for what reason uh well you're either dictating to somebody about you going outside of the parking lot to take pictures no I was talking to you I said if they're still coming out to talk to me tell them I'll be out in the apartment I don't have any you don't have anything you drive here I didn't okay how do you join the motor vehicle that's your license because my license are in my car yes so if we get out there you can produce your four crime surviving kid made a crown why am I detained because I you don't have to commit a crime for me to stop somebody and ask for identification so that means you need to do later is you need to confer with an attorney or whatever because I have the right to detain somebody for suspicious activity and that's what you're doing did you reason to believe did you read the DHS memo that was sent out in 2010 and then revived 2018 you can't use suspicion as a reason to detain a public photographer five and committed a crime watch as the officer becomes very confused when the auditor mentions a random memo and the year it comes out realizing that he's a total geek of the law at this moment he's aware that his job is about to get much harder we are either dick somebody no I was talking to you I said if they're still coming out to talk to me tell them I'll be out in the park I don't have any you don't have anything if you drive here I did okay how do you drive with motor vehicle without your license because my license are in my car okay so your license is this in a car now yes so if we get out there you can produce your identification for that crime oh I didn't say you're committed crime so if I haven't committed crime why am I detained because I because you don't have to commit a crime for me to stop somebody and ask for identification whatever because I have the right to detain somebody for suspicious activity and that's what you're doing did you reason to believe did you read the DHS memo that was sent out 2010 and then revived 2018 you can use suspicion as a reason to detain a public photographer if I've committed a crime you're a public photographer and I ask you who you work for when you don't work for anybody I work for myself you wouldn't explain why you take videos of pictures I don't have to have a reason to do public photography is this a sergeant here or no that is yeah okay well I'm Ken do you understand public photography I do can you explain to him that he has no reason to detain me here for public photography we have a right to know who we're dealing with if I've committed a crime you want to identify yourself I'm in a public exactly I don't have to I don't know myself trying to figure out who you are what you need the pictures for what reason I haven't committed a crime are y'all gonna question this man he's done nothing wrong I know we will question him so are you saying I committed a crime I'm not saying that so then why are we talking I'm trying to determine what your purpose is I've told you I'm obey public photographer I'm taking big building but we're responsible that's why I was Purity and I went through security and I checked through security I've went through security people that have come through there also to invest day and age if I was says every officer story plot this day and age I haven't committed I've done nothing wrong I've committed no crime none of the officers ever said that the auditor committed any crimes yet he's still mentioning that he hasn't committed any crime all the time for a while there they all sound like a broken record but then this happens what I'm saying is this is a secure building and I went through the security part of the security building and I had nothing on me you take the judges and everybody else am I in the courtroom I have no I said that there's a courtroom in there now if you want to go upstairs and take videos of the courtroom and what's going on there's no cell phones allowed in courtrooms I understand that like I know what I'm doing I wouldn't just be out here honestly pulling this camera if I didn't know what I was doing I'm in a public Lobby it's a public building I haven't went in any secured area I went through security as you keep bringing up I have no weapons no nothing no I said the reason we have this and I understand that this is a First Amendment protected activity that I'm doing and you're detaining me because of me acting in my first amendment is that what you're saying well yeah ask me a question I asked you this is a First Amendment particular activity in a public building so you drove here in the car correct I did so your driver's license is in the car why is your driver license in your car no my driver's license can I see your license if you have no legal reason for my ID right now then I like to see yours as well my ideas in my uniform can I tell you an officer with Adams County Sheriff's Office can I see your house that's why we have uniforms so that you know that's who we are okay but you know what I I don't have a name plate and you call me Sergeant now it's now you're my last name gonna tell you because I want to know who you are and what you're doing in the building but my idea isn't going to tell you what I'm doing right now I'm just going to tell you my name that's not gonna tell you what I'm doing so you're talking in circle Jordan I haven't committed a crime knocking circles yes you need to follow the circle I'm I am in the circle this is a lawful activity and you're stopping me for following the law just look at how the officer looks at his colleagues however the auditor is right about the fact that they're going in circles but he is the reason for that and there's no denying it let's see what happens next I didn't say filming okay your active activity I'm sorry I was talking to my attorney I'm sorry yeah okay we haven't come here no I'm live streaming so he's he's still interested so you're stopping you're doing this as a test no I'm not but no no no no I haven't been confrontational you asked me a question I've answered you're refusing to let me go because I'm doing it first amendment protected activity thank you sir just wasted my time with a complete can I have almost reach of distance in my personal speech please because if you come too close and you touch me as an assault so I would like a little distance please he's telling me he wants distance because he says I'm assault no I said if you come too close to me and I want to touch it I'm sorry as an assault because if I touch you and you didn't want them listen for the camera when you do something wrong when you violate North Carolina law I will place you under arrest what am I doing wrong I said when you do thank you for being professional thank you and thank you sir this I I don't understand your reason of employment right now I don't understand it after another argument which takes place outside of the building the officers start following the man he then takes a video of the sheriff's vehicle and continues arguing with the officers at all honestly yeah so he so they're gonna follow me well he is anyway because he's a puppy he say he's gonna wait until I break the law that's what he's gonna do and if you did correct the law so he can arrest you yes you do oh if I break the law yeah tell me things really well tell me some things that I could do here that could that could break the law tell me some things here tell you something yeah tell me things that you would Dean I'm just out here taking pictures and videos because I'm a news journalist and I put together content for a story as I try to explain to him in here but he kept talking over me that's the first time but I don't have to use that terminology to do this with the First Amendment tells me I can do I like I I don't have to put fancy words together to tell you that this is a First Amendment now let's admit this comparison was a bit unnecessary and the officer did the right thing by not addressing it now the argument is slowly coming to an end it turns together to explain what you're doing I don't have to explain anything officer I don't That's the Law I don't know the Constitution tells me and you that the freedom of pressed check the Constitution no obviously you need to that's why I'm I'm Not In Handcuffs because I ain't done nothing wrong so so what else is it that we can do to resistance I'll be completely honest with you and I'm recording with you because you've been been nothing I would just like for this officer here because I feel threatened right now what else can we do I would like for you to call this officer off me please because he has no reason to follow me around if I followed you all around in public I'd be harassment so you have the right and it's funny to you right but I don't it is excellent because it is because you're following me before I came into this building it's not the right to be in a public place but I don't because you're following me here you were inside if you wanted to be out here you would have been out here before I came walking around the building and I understand that sir but he was inside I show up I come outside and he's following me now he's following me if you saw me following your wife would you think that was okay because I'm allowed to be in public is that all right I'm not really going to address that it's not what we're doing right here also also now it's personal feelings now but see if I was following your wife or your daughter or your wife your daughter you look into that you're coming up with hypothetically no I'm not y'all are following me and then you say oh well this is public I can be here well if your wife's in public and I follow her that's nothing wrong right is that right I didn't understand my explanation you're following me before I showed up you were inside before I showed up you were content was sitting inside this is public I came I hear you followed me all right this is my place of employment but you're following me I'm working the same place I didn't have the right to control this area and that's what I'm doing you're following me I'm following you yes you're following me for what reason are you gonna follow me all the way back to my car probably okay well that's nice well put your walking shoes on because you got a good one in the talk between the person and the police officer they talked about an important legal idea the difference between suspicion and reasonable suspicion the police officer didn't fully understand the rights of the person recording even after the person explained nicely what they were doing the officer kept them there and asked more questions making them feel stressed and uncomfortable this kind of behavior from the officer damages people's trust in the police and could cause arguments or problems