Hi. Are you Ben? >> Yes. >> Ben, I'm Detective Nikosha. I work here at the police department. >> Okay. >> Um just wanted to try and talk with you, just try to figure out what's going on. It sounds like there's a lot going on that I don't know a lot about, so that's why I'm just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and just try to talk to you. Does that sound good? >> Yeah, I can share everything I know, I guess, and >> Okay. Before I do so, I just want to make sure you're aware of your rights. Doesn't mean you're going to jail or anything. Um but just because we're in this setting and I may ask some questions that may come off as like interrogation or type stuff. >> Oh, for sure, yeah. >> So, just I just want to make sure you're aware of your rights and and uh also that you know, we're kind of covered and everything, okay? So, you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you can't afford a afford an attorney, one will be provided for you. If you decide to answer uh questions now without an attorney present, Sorry, you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney. Do you understand the rights that I have just read to you? >> Yes. >> Okay. Having these rights in mind, do you wish to speak with me? >> Uh I'm assuming if I say no, then I go to jail. >> I mean, I'm I can't I can't I I just I have to ask you some questions. I'm I'm just confused with Okay. >> always share my side, yeah. I think there's a lot of like lies going around that can Yeah, I can clear stuff up. >> Okay. And if you don't want to answer a specific question, like I said, you can just say, "Hey, I don't want to answer that question." But, does that sound like a good deal? >> Yeah, for sure. >> Okay. So, what's what's going on? Cuz it sounds like police have been in contact with you or kind of your I'm going to say posse, but for the past 4 days, right? >> Yeah, I I guess I can just say everything if you want. >> Whatever you want to share with me and whatever you think is >> I don't know how much you know already, but basically I'm a Journalist is kind of a weird word. I'm a YouTuber. Um and at first I started just making slackline videos and over time it's kind of gotten more into journalism and I've kind of gained a niche of going in like people email me stories and then I go in basically it's usually corrupt organizations. I go in and then I think the thing that separates me from other people is I don't just report on it. I actually take it to the next step and like shut them down. So, like I guess the last one I did was uh it's called the McKamey Manor. It's the they advertise it as the world's scariest haunted house. >> Uh-huh. >> And so, I went in and it turns out the haunted house doesn't exist. It's just like a trap to get people to show up so they can have a they have like a torture fetish, I guess. It's like a cult of people Actually, it's like a cult. >> Interesting. >> And they uh torture people and uh I ended up So, it's like a normal journalist would just like report about it, but I actually went and I saw that he didn't renew his LLC. So, I bought his company from him and I was able to shut him down and then I think we didn't find some other loopholes. It was like uh like he wasn't uh using his like fire code. He didn't have like fire extinguishers and like his like fake haunted house. So, we were like we just used like some crazy loopholes and we got shut down. He got arrested. And that's kind of the brand. So, if someone hit me up, they said, "Hey, this company called Bricks and Minifigs stole my entire family's life savings for my dad. It says he spent his entire life collecting the world's biggest Star Wars LEGO collection. It's worth $200,000 and he put it in this store so they could sell it for him and they just kept the LEGOs and didn't pay him anything. And they like we politely went in and asked if we could have it back and they said the only way you're getting these LEGOs back is if you sue us and if you think about it, 83-year-old man versus $400 million company. >> Uh-huh. >> Even though the $400 million company is in the wrong, they're going to win, you know? So he's like, "We don't know what else to do. Like we've we've tried contacting attorneys and they said like it's going to once we see what the attorney's fees are, we can't sue them. So like we don't know what else to do. They're like, "We need your help, Ben." So I was like, "Okay." So we went up and we basically sued them. Uh well, first I kind of did like the normal investigative journalism report. I didn't show you the video, too, if you want. It's on a unlisted video on YouTube, but we went up and the video is almost ready to post. Um and we basically just went up and we documented everything. We got their side of the story. We got the old man's side of the story. You know, we just get all sides. That's what the first thing we do. And then we're like, "Whoop, it seems like they're uh um yeah, they stole it." You know, cuz like when we got their side of the story, we're like, "Hey, we heard that there's a bunch of LEGOs in your store." And immediately they're like, "Get out of here. We're calling the police. Like you're harassing us." I'm like, "I'm I'm I'm not harassing. I just asked a question. Like if you still have these LEGO sets in your store." They're like, "That's harassment." And stuff and they >> And this was up in Oregon, right? From my understanding? Okay. >> uh basically we're like, "Okay, like I know an 83-year-old man who's dying of cancer probably doesn't have the means to sue you, but I do. So uh we served them papers. We did everything legally. We took them to court. They were stupid enough not even to show up to court. So uh we won default judgment and we went to uh basically collect and they saw that they had to pay us all the money so they shut down their store in Oregon. And so, now we are here um because the owners live here. And um I So, also, we met with the chief of police in Oregon, and he said that they're now doing a criminal investigation on them, and within I think it was just 4 or 5 days ago, he said within 2 weeks they should have enough evidence to put a warrant out for their arrest. Which also sucks for us because if they get arrested, then it's really going to be hard to garnish their wages if we sue them again personally um because if we sue them personally, obviously, we can't shut the court and stuff if they're in jail. So, uh we're like, "Well, we'll do it anyways." You know, we're just suing them personally. So, I filed all the paperwork. We have a lawsuit me against them personally now, and the LLC that they dissolved. So, we go to his house, and oh, actually, before you can get a court case accepted, you have to uh show that you had a good faith conversation to resolve it outside of court case first, or else they won't accept the court case. So, the first step is >> Oregon then or >> Uh in Utah. Well, so we are doing >> Sorry, I'm just not very familiar with the civil side. I know with all the criminal side, right? >> So, in uh Oregon, um so, we have to sue them through the Marion County Court in Oregon because that's where the crime took place. Even though I live in Los Angeles, they live in Utah, that's just what the law says. We have to from my understanding. And so, >> So, that's part of Oregon's civil thing. >> Yeah. >> Is you have to have a good faith conversation. >> Yes. >> Okay. Sorry, just trying to understand. >> I went to have a good faith I I rang their doorbell, and uh the guy comes out. He's like, "Ah!" you know, once he sees me. He's like, "No, no, no." Like, really mad. I'm like, "Hello." Like, like, "Hey, I'm here to have a good faith conversation with you before I'm like, I do have information. I talked to the chief of police. You might be arrested in 2 weeks, or at least get you a warrant out for your arrest. We already won the lawsuit. We're going to win again. Like, the store is closed down. We saw and also, we could see the LEGO sets were still in the store. So, we're like, we know you're not going to sell these LEGO sets. Like the LEGO sets are probably going to go to corporate, you know? So, we're like, "If you want, you can just open the door and open the LEGO sets. Like it's literally not even your LEGO sets. You're not going to keep them. So, like it's like we're on the same team here is what I said. Like we should work together to get on this these LEGO sets back. Or the alternative is we take you to court." And then right after I said that, the cops showed up. They're like, "You're trespassing." And then they're like, "No, no, no." And they like were cops were yelling at me and stuff. They're like, "You just you have to leave." And I'm like, "Okay." I like They're like, "He's asked you many times to leave. You've never left this property." They're like, "We're going to arrest you for trespass." I'm like, "He's never asked He's never even said a single word to me. If he told me to leave, I would have left this property, you know? Like I'm just here doing the court said to have a good faith conversation." So, then uh the next step is if the good faith conversation doesn't work, you serve them legal papers. So, we um went to serve them legal papers. It has to be someone over 18 that's not related to the case. So, I just found someone who said they were down. Um and they we drove up and the cops came like immediately. And we're like, "Hey, we're here to serve them papers." And uh like we we didn't even go on the property or anything cuz I'm trespassing on the property. So, obviously I'm not going to walk on the property. But the previous day I did ask. I said, "Hey, am I allowed on the street?" And they said, "Yes, you're allowed on the street. Just don't walk on the property." So, I thought I was in the legal right to be on the street uh to serve them these paper, you know? And so, basically what happened is Oh, and then we put a sign We found a public sign What's it called? A public strip that's not owned by the HOA. So, it's public property. And we put a little sign up that just says like, "I stole all LEGOs." You know? And the thing was like it obviously it's for YouTube. So, we're going to be a little goofy with it, you know? Um so, but we had our legal right to put that sign there because it's uh in public property. And if anyone asks us to take it down, obviously we would take it down. But basically the joke was we're going to have cuz obviously he's not going to want to be served, you know? Like if we knock on his door and say, "Hey, we're here to serve you papers." He's not going to answer. So it was like, "Oh, he's going to walk out to take out the sign and then hey, you've been served. Bring it home. That's it. We'll see him in court, you know?" And um and then all of a sudden the police came come and they're like like, "You're stalking him. You're And I'm like Explain to them. I'm like, "I wasn't We're not stalking him. We're doing like I I even told the cop I'm like, "I wish we could just send him an email. Like show up to court this day." That would be so easy for us. But this is how the law works. Like that's not my fault. Like I don't make the law. If I made the law, send him an email, send him an email or email, letter in the mail. I don't know. Like that's how I would do it. But I'm not the one that writes the law. The government is. So I was like, "We are just following what the law says, you know?" And the police actually were kind of working with us at the beginning. They're like, "Okay, we'll serve the papers." I was like, "Oh, that'd be awesome, you know? Like we can serve papers." So they walk up and then they're I see them talking to him and the police weren't even trying to serve. Like all they had to do is just say, "You've been served." and drop it on his foot door, you know? Like if he sees you do that, that counts. But the police are like, "He doesn't want your papers." I'm like, "You can't just serve." They're like, "We tried serving it but we couldn't do it." And they're like, "He doesn't want your papers. You just have to figure out civilly." I'm like, "This is the civil method, you know? Like to do it civilly, you have to serve." They're like, "Well, then just sue him then." I'm like, "That's what we're doing. Like Like You see how this is a circle, you know? Um so if I'm like, "Okay, if I follow your instructions, I will be back here tomorrow to sue him for not being able to sue him, you know? Like Like Like I was like, "What's the alternative?" And they're like, "You just have to sue him." I'm like, "That's what I'm doing. Like That We are following the law by doing this." And so I got arrested um for I I I still think it was a false arrest um because I was following the law. Um like I was doing what the court tells us to do, you know? Um And I think Josh is I I am very interested in Josh's side of the story because I think he said my son had heroin in the car or something, and they did like a 3-hour search on our car. Obviously, no heroin. Like, the guy I was with I mean, I've I'm from California, so I smoked weed before, but that's the most intense drug I've done. Um Uh but I haven't smoked weed since long time. Um but the guy I was with he's never smoked, drank a day in his life, and they were like, "We can tell you're on drugs and stuff." And so I don't know what Josh is telling them to >> Mhm. >> that we're doing, but um yeah, then today we were like, uh "Well, if So, I thought it was a funny plot point for the video to be like, "Okay, well, if we serve him, we go to jail, you know?" So, obviously, we can't go through the civil way because they keep saying, "Do it civilly." And obviously, civil going civil suing him is not working for us. So, let's do a GoFundMe. I have a big following. I have >> Mhm. >> I'm very confident if I made a GoFundMe, we would get him the $200,000 just from a GoFundMe. I'm very confident we would do that. But I have to like do something funny. So, we were like, "Well, we uh we found it a house that uh we saw some people at the house yesterday. They were really like like, "Oh my gosh, like they're arresting you just for like serving court papers?" Like, all the neighbors were like, it seemed like they were on our side, you know? So, we talked to the neighbors about it, and they were like, "Yeah, let's do a GoFundMe here. We'll like, I give you permission to put the sign up at my house, you know? It's freedom of speech. We're allowed to do that if it's their private property, you know?" And so, we're like, "We'll just do like a little video where we're like, 'Hey, like donate to this.' And we have that sign hung up, you know?" And then we're like, "We're just going to make like a short little video just for the GoFundMe." And then my friend gets arrested, and he's not even like I I just met him for this video. He showed up to this video. So, I had a fake tier on my Patreon where it was like, "If you pay me $3,000 like I It's a joke tier." A lot of things I do are satire. If I guess you haven't found out by now, but I involve a lot of satire like my work. And so, a lot of big YouTubers that I think are terrible people, they always have like tiers where it's like, "If you pay me $1,000, you can collab with me." Which I think is so It's like, "Why would you have someone pay to work for you?" I think that's so stupid. So, I did the same thing jokingly on my end. Like, "If you pay me $3,000, you can be one of my videos." And I think the guy who got arrested today, he was like my biggest fan ever, you know? And so, he was like, "I'll pay that, you know?" He's like, "If If I pay this, are you really going to do a video with me?" I was like, "No, it's a joke. Like, don't pay the money. I'll just do a video with you. Like, who cares? Like, you don't have to pay anything." So, I flew him out and so, that's how I met him actually was through that. And then, what they said is he was being kind of a dick to the police, I guess, today. And that's why he got arrested. So, I I don't know if that's true. I'm I'm I don't really know him that well. I'm probably Maybe he was, I guess. Uh maybe he's not being as cooperative as like the rest of us are. I mean, all these people are just random people that were in that Airbnb that you guys like swatted us for. Like, those were all just random people. I I just met all of them as of like a couple days ago. So, I'm really the man If anyone should get in trouble, it should be me, but not them. >> Okay. >> Um >> So, today's event was was that kind of your ideas to do this video with the GoFundMe and all that? Or how did that all come >> So, I wanted to video the GoFundMe because the whole thing is is like, "Okay, if we do a video of this thing, I know like I just know how the internet works. It's going to raise the money for this family." >> Right. >> And before we could even shoot the video, um the police just came and shut it down and arrested like shut I don't I don't know if he deserves to be here. Maybe he was talking back. I don't know. Um I I I I I >> sure either. I wasn't there. So >> there either. Yeah, cuz I was afraid that if I go back then they're going to arrest So I just stayed back out of it. I wasn't in it at all. >> But the plan with with everyone was to create this video. >> It was just to create a video. Yes, we GoFundMe. >> And then get the Cuz if I just say like hey this man stole his Legos donate no one's going to care. You know, like you got to do something like kind of funny for it, you know, and Well, the the the purpose wasn't to intimidate Josh. You know, it was like those neighbors seemed like they were like on our side, you know, and it was like oh like if we do it the neighbor's house like it'll go viral and >> Okay. >> Um yeah, but the purpose wasn't to intimidate Josh. It wasn't uh like make him scared, I guess. It was cuz I know that that's going to go viral and that's going to basically blow up and get Like that sign is a funny sign, you know, and like we have the freedom of speech to say that, you know, um and it's true. It's not defamation. I mean even if it's defamation he has to get us in civil court, but it's not defamation. It is true. Um like that is what he did and I have so much evidence to back it up in our documentary. Um and we have the freedom of speech to for that person to put that up on their property and um And I I thought we were doing a good thing by getting this family their money back, you know, and like we're like cuz the police said hey do not serve them court papers, which means basically police told me do not take this man to court or else you'll get arrested. And so I was like just thinking and we're like let's do a GoFundMe, you know, and that was our solution. >> Got you. So this this group you mentioned that this group you had today and kind of last few days you've just met them. >> As of like 3 days ago. >> Okay. Who who are the people that you met just 3 days ago? >> I I don't even know half their names. Um Yeah, if you give me my phone I could probably tell you, but >> Who Who do you know, I guess? >> I know Sheldon, but I only know him from he showed up in Oregon. Uh so, that was my first time meeting him was in Oregon. He showed up through the LEGO video for like 3 days, I think is what we We only filmed for 3 days. And then uh I came back on my own to see if the store was closed, and then he was like I don't know, just He was kind of depressed, and I just saw He was like, "That was the best like 3 days of my life when I did the Oregon thing." So, I was like, "Okay, come out for the you know, it was like where you continue to go." >> Okay. So, you and Sheldon have kind of been talking a little bit longer than the other guys. >> Yeah. >> How did you How did you get in touch with these other guys that you just met 3 days ago? >> I think I put on Instagram story, maybe. I was like, "Yeah, if you're in Utah, you want to help take down a bad guy, hit me up." >> Okay. All right. But Sheldon, he cuz he lives in Illinois, Illinois? >> Yeah. >> So, he you guys kind of talk every now and then, and said, "Hey, come out to Utah, and come help me with this." >> Yeah, I'm trying to think of other things. Yeah, and sometimes we call each other on the phone every once in a while, but >> Okay. But all the other people just Instagram to say, "Hey, I need help with this. Come help me." >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, the the whole I guess from from my understanding of what you're saying is the whole reason we're here in Utah is to serve Josh Papers. >> Yeah, cuz uh we won the court case in Oregon, and now we have to sue sue him personally, that's >> Mhm. >> what we have to do. I don't know. >> Okay. Tell me about like this other stuff that's going on, like sounds like there was some ducks that were dropped off in a box. >> Yeah, so that was uh so, basically, we I I do Like I said, I do a lot of satire in my stuff. So, there was a basically, Josh has been using these loopholes of legal contracts and stuff. And so, I kind of wanted to do like an art piece, if that makes sense. So, it's basically I I did it really in my last video and it went kind of viral. So, I was like, "Oh, I'll just do the same thing with this." Where this horror director was basically trapping like tricking people into contracts and then that way he could torture them and then he'd pass off his fiction that was actually real torture. And we took him down. It was a whole thing. So, I was like, "Oh, I'll do the same thing with the like this guy's kind of doing the same thing." Like he's tricking people in contracts. He's doing a bunch of like very shady legal loopholes and stuff. So, the whole point of this video was like, "Okay, let's cuz from a storytelling perspective, I like to show, don't tell, if that makes sense. So, I could tell the audience, "This is or I could tell someone, 'This is wrong.'" But if you're a bad guy, obviously they're not going to listen. But what if you could show a bad guy that through like art that what you're doing is wrong? So, it was basically just a satire piece where we uh we're like, "Hey, here's this Do you want this package?" He's like, "Yeah." We're like, "Okay, sign here then." And so, he signs and then in it it's like we we said in the contract, like you have to do the chicken dance. You have to do like just it's just a obviously a goofy satire comedy episode. So, it's just a piece of satire to show in the video, this is why it's wrong. And now his own methods happened back to him, but not in a real way, in a satire way. >> And then there's another one like >> We didn't think that I'm sorry. I'm I'm going to finish. And we didn't think that it was going to be anything to intimidate him. It was literally satire for It's like an art piece to satire for the video, you know. >> Okay. Yeah, and then there was like another one the following day with like a church you're acting like a church member and >> Yeah, so >> something like that. Another just a >> So, well, that it wasn't act He actually was a Mormon. Um Um, so, yeah, we just found a Mormon cuz we found out that So, one thing for the video, too, we found out that's so ironic is that he's super hardcore Mormon, which uh I mean, I guess you can believe whatever you want, I guess, but the the thing is >> Josh is, that you're saying? Okay. >> Yeah, was strange about that is like, for me, I would expect an atheist to steal a bunch of money. That's kind of like, "Okay, that's expected, you know, cuz when they die, nothing happens." But a Mormon, if you steal that much money, then you go to the outer layer, you go to hell their hell, you know what I mean? And so, it's like, "What?" He either doesn't believe in Mormonism or he um is thinks he's going to hell, I guess. So, we just found a Mormon and we were like, "Hey, like, this is what Josh did, you know? Like, do you want to like, save him, you know, cuz we thought like, if he did do something bad, like, that would be a good thing to do to him, right? To actually like, get him to repent for his sins, and that way he could be saved. And so, we thought that was a good thing by like, sending uh I mean, I guess he ultimately chose to go, but um we I mean, obviously, I guess we kind of knew that if we told someone about it, they'd probably go and tell him about it, but >> Gotcha. >> uh ultimately, we thought that we were doing a good thing by like, saving him from his sins, you know? >> Mhm. Okay. Yep, just trying to get your point of view from all that. Just >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um anything else that you think maybe would be important? >> every single interaction we've had with him, I think, since we've been in Utah. We called him I never interacted with him when we were in Oregon, but I did have, I think, three phone calls with him. And I already sent those three phone calls to the chief of police in Oregon, and that's what allowed him to now do criminal charges, where those phone calls of him basically admitting to everything that happened. >> Gotcha. >> Um but besides that, I think I think, yeah, I think I've just described every single contact I've ever had with Josh my our entire history, I think. >> In Utah, in here here, >> Utah and Oregon. Yeah, And then there was three phone calls in Oregon. There were three phone calls we had in Oregon, yeah. >> Okay. >> No, four. Cuz then at the very end, yeah, we did have uh last phone call where he's like, "I'm going to give all this stuff back." And it went back and it turned out he was lying and then so but besides that, that's my entire history with Josh. >> Got you. Okay. Well, give me 1 second. Give me longer than a second, but just hang tight here and then I'll be back with you, okay? >> Okay. >> Okay. And need anything? Water? >> Uh I don't think so. >> Okay. If you do, just knock on the door here and we're just right out here. >> Actually, is there a bathroom? Am I allowed to use the bathroom or is that >> Yeah, you can. >> I I can hold it if I if you'd rather me sit here. Uh >> I I don't care either way. I can take you over to the bathroom or not. >> I got to have to pee. >> I'm not going to make you sit here and >> I don't have to pee like that bad, but it's kind of getting >> Well, I'm not going to make you sit here and fidget and spin and do whatever. So. Yeah, it's just down the hall here and get you bathroom and then we'll get you put back in there. That's okay. >> But am I allowed to use the bathroom or is this the one? >> Yeah. Just trying to understand everything that's going on and and and whatnot. So. >> I hate those faucets. Oh, no. >> You guys change in here, too? >> I don't, but some do. >> That's nice. Is this Do you have like a police chase and you're all sweaty running around? >> Yeah, we're right back right here. >> This way? All right. >> No, you're good. >> And the last door on the left? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> I just hang tight. Can you do anything knock on the door? >> Oh, thanks so much. >> Yep.