we lose a lot of ID carts uh we lose a lot of Badges and I was reading reports from uh Seattle I don't know if you you probably Googled your story too Seattle Melbourne Australia uh Northern Ireland and we look at it across the country the same stuff that we're showing missing is what other police agencies are I think we have a lot less than other large police departments but uh you know whatever questions you might have or however I can help you yeah feel free sure well I think you know the first thing is that obviously it's a great concern that the equipment that is issued to the officers or the Personnel here at the Milwaukee Police Department is tracked is there any accountability if things are lost absolutely and how do it work well and again that's that goes to our core values and our one of and our number one core value is competency part of being competent is we give you stuff you take care of it and that that just kind of follows us throughout life as you know as we start off young and as we're young in our career we're given you know smaller amounts of responsibility that grow into larger amounts and the equipment we're given it's expensive it's complicated uh the new radio system it's expensive what we found is in the past as no one was responsible for the radio because we shared it in blocks of time I worked uh second shift at District number 7even I came in they handed me a radio there was no sense of ownership each one of our Patrol officers today is issued a radio it's their radio they take care of their radio if you look at the things that are missing and the things that that we can't account for and again I don't want to say they're stolen they're misplaced and they're misplaced because we do fluid audits as we do audits of say handcuffs not every officer right now is going to have their handcuffs on their person because every day we arrest 100 in 510 people some of those people are on their way to are in custody hold facilities wearing handcuffs so it's impossible to stop the clock freeze time and count everyone's handcuffs and what we find is cuz handcuffs all look exactly the same and the numbers and maybe it's just cuz I'm getting older Rob but the numbers are smaller and smaller I don't think that cops you know look at the numbers we get our cuffs back they tell us they're our cuffs uh some officers and again we don't like people to put flare or personalize the equipment because it is Universal Equipment and so you know you think well we could probably mark it with magic markers all right you did Black everyone will use black you put a sticker on it you know it becomes a nightmare and it might deal with the functionality of it so we don't allow them to deface or Market because it's not theirs it's ours goes to the jail they come out they're giving a set of cuffs but every inservice we do four in Services a year one of them they do equipment checks where all their equipment is checked one of the things they do is they run the serial number and we have cops you know then you saw the number of handcuffs and you read the reports where the majority of them found out at inservice where they were said it's all this crisscross I can tell you my personal account my handcuffs were missing for 4 and A2 years one day in an envelope somebody ran the number realized these aren't my cuffs and mailed them back to me and it's like all of a sudden you know it causes you then to look at your handcuffs to say well if those aren't my cuffs what was I carrying for the last four years so uh badges you know another big thing may you again you look at they lost a lot more badges than we did I read one of the cute stories that they had from Seattle where the police captain put the badge inside his coat his young daughter teenage daughter wore the coat to a party she came the coat came back with her minus the badge he got a lot of explaining to do we have to explain when things are missing but if you think of the badge on our uniform we put it here it's a simple pin to take it off we take it off we put it on our outermost garment that's our requirement goes on the jacket inside shirt back to the jacket now into the wallet on the way home it's I bet you you lost a tie clip or people that are watching the show I wonder how many people have lost earrings you know those things happen and we understand that those things happen and what we expect from our members is when equipment is lost or stolen that they come forward and they say you know what we're missing stuff the radio is easy I missing my radio of the new radios we're missing three of our new radios they have absolutely no value to anyone we can track that radio we can remotely control that radio you know we know that two of them are lost the commanding officer of those members has to decide how that is going to proceed is it going to be disciplined as a result of not safeguarding the equipment because you know the value is we Safeguard it so to look at the totality of the circumstances in which those property went missing other ones there was in the report I read uh three firearms one of them you saw I don't know if you saw if you had chance to look through the reports you Rob but one of them they found it remember it was missing from 2000 to 200 or five 20 it was missing for a long time but what it really was it wasn't missing it was again it's an audit and it's in a car because that's where we store the shotguns they're stored with the car and that one you know was it at the garage being repaired was it here was it being used by another District this one shotgun eludes the audit for a long period of time and all of a sudden they're doing the audit again and there it is the training Glock never showed back up training Glock didn't show back up and and know that's concern you know and I know that cuz you can put a pin back in that it's a fully functional weapon uh it would would require some skill and sophistication that the average person doesn't have but it's a firearm that's missing I would say that that is somewhere within our own building somewhere within somebody's training equipment as you know those weapons are used for uh scenario Based training we've gone to a lot of scenario Based training someone has their lesson pre repaired I would imagine that the day the audit was conducted that's in someone's bag someone's box for training that's not on on the street well the only concern I had was in the report that the actual serial number was redacted so I couldn't run to see if that was actually found in the commission of a crime I know that that gun is has not been recovered all of our Firearms but do you know if it's been used in the commission of a crime could we get that serial number to run it it would it to it to have been used in a in the commission of a crime we would have to have recovered it or it could be recovered someplace else nationally if we would be notified R that's you know what happens is when you report something stolen here's the thing about all our equipment it all has our numbers on it no one it can never see the light of day someone pulls that out if you had in your possession a police radio from our Police Department first of all if it's the old motor Ru R it has no value it doesn't work but if you were to go to like radio shop and try to get parts for it they would call us we would come and we would arrest you or you'd have a lot of explaining how you came into possession of our property you had one of our Firearms you'd have to explain how you came into possession of it could they just file off the serial number though too and then we would raise R here's the thing I've been doing this a long time if you take off our numbers we take it over to the Wisconsin Regional crime laboratory where reg templin who was one of the firearm Specialists that worked on the assassination firearm of John F Kennedy he'd raise the numbers we'd know it's our gun it seems like a lot of work for a you know a non-functioning firearm that I'm telling you right now is in our building you know what I don't know what box it's in because we have lots of things you know we have in our possession property that goes back since you know we began this police agency that desk behind me is 80 years old it's still in our possession it still functions we don't throw things up we use them until they cannot possibly be used again that guns in our possession like the other shotgun we're missing that's in one of our squad cars but again as we start off right we don't we don't stop the world of policing to do audits we do audits at different work locations and that's all this is this is just an auditing process if you were to compare us to any business they would say that what we do on the control we have of our inventory you know the term out in in the business world is called shrinkage we have zero tolerance for shrinkage again we either have the equipment or we have a police report if it's the members it's not found it's not found you can have the police report but it's still missing or stolen or stolen and and again with the shotgun we'll find that it'll come up in an audit then we'll say I just guess the public Chief is like oh my gosh it's a shotgun or it's a you know training arm you understand and I I totally get it Rob I'm not minimizing that I'm just saying that again we have seven police districts we have the eighth location which is our neighborhood task force we have all the operational divisions six of them of the criminal investigation Bureau we cannot stop all of our cars that are doing police work to say everyone right now look down and write down the shock it's not how it works we do audits we do them systematically they're not just for counting things they're to check functionality all of our Firearms are checked several times a year to make sure that they're properly functioning it is an important piece of equipment and that we have to make sure that it is absolutely positively going to you know function and perform the way it was designed to and the way our officers have been trained to use it so we don't stop the world the policing to count things you know what the shotgun isn't going to be out on the street it's an 87 to say that though I mean if you know one was disappeared for 5 years where did where was it for 5 years it was in a squat car for sure I mean that's I mean just it seems hard to believe that you know during that time right it was in a squad car again I'm telling you that cuz you teletype this stuff I mean when you teletype it don't they take a look in the squad car and say oh I got that shotgun here do the police officers look the see again the audits are conducted by people that every work location has their shotgun person that car could have been a garage it could have been in a variety of places you're asking me to explain you know a negative I can't do it I know this the gun was not found during audits or counted during Audits and then it was found and counted in an audit could it have you know could I say all kinds of you know hypotheticals absolutely was it used in the commission of crime no no why can I say that so boldly and make that thing because you got me on film and if I'm wrong I'm going to you know you will be able to prove me wrong but I don't see that happening Rob I've been doing this a long time I know how we control property we are very very careful with the things that the citizens give us we respect that you know as you look at equipment you know we look at all of the resources we're given you know in in 2007 we over spent our overtime budget by 40% you know in the next four years that we've been doing this we've been under budget I mean we get that there is a finite number of resources we get that shrinking budgets we get that we don't have money I'm telling you right now look in this office this is all old furniture okay we don't go out a lot of new badges that were lost and you know what we replace Badges and again if you look at the badge itself you know the badge the badge has a clip you know I'm sure that every one of of your viewers has lost something in their life set of keys Rob what did you lose in your life I have to pay it back myself out of the Rob cobal account though we're talking about taxpayer money though Chief you understand the difference difference what says that if I lose something if I lose my ring I'm going to have to replace it myself we've bought these badges for you the taxpayers have done that but here's the thing I lost two badges in my career and I can tell you exactly the circumstances and one of them was chasing a suspect armed suspect through the yard and when my badge went flying off you know what Rob I didn't have the opportunity or the time order I think it was the smart thing to do to stop what I was doing because I was in pursuit of somebody that was very dangerous I came back my badge was gone do you think I should have paid for my badge Rob well no I'm not saying that you should pay for the badge but I see I also have your Chief though too and there are I totally understand expandable wands batons when they're chasing a suspect a lot of these reports here they're just careless L bades and again Rob we started the conversation by saying that we have a core value and that each commanding officer looks at that and then we determine whether or not it is you know again if people lose things people lose things every one of us no matter what job we've ever had we've lost something but we don't normally deal with bulletproof vest badges tactical gear that it's all been lost mace OC spray okay well you know that goes into the public it's lost some that could be used against you see what I'm saying what I'm trying to do here as we try to have this conversation you got to ask me questions that have one item in the in the sentence you know one subject so what do you want to talk about two vests that are missing I had three I had two I can name the officers whose vest are missing where are they now I don't know rob you know what are they how you expl to taxpayers Chief how do I explain that someone took off their vest either at home or someplace at work and it's misplaced yeah exactly okay again Rob I think that you look at it and you say they vest when were those vests manufactured Rob what's the expiration of those vest they were still entrusted to the officers and paid for with County or taxpayer money I totally get that right but you know again do people lose things yes are you saying that we should punish people who lose things no I'm just asking if you're concerned about this stuff absolutely Street well not so much on the street I'm just concerned as as a taxpayer and as a cop that we're missing equipment because if it's embarrassing isn't it I don't know if it's embarrassing it's part of life people lose things guns SWAT jackets I mean that's that's the difference stop let's talk about the guns we're talking about two guns that are missing one is a non functioning firearm that could be converted anything can be converted to fire you know Munitions Rob the reality is this so it could be functional by now no I'm telling you right now it is somewhere in their training equipment and they failed to find it in their audit we have looked you and I and and all of your viewers have looked for things you know we're talking guns I know where my gun is at home I'm sure you do and you probably only have one and you know what we're talking about one training gun and one shotgun that I tell you that is in one of our squad cars the only way to be ABS can't tell me where it is you no R the only way I could do that we're to click the stopwatch stop all the police and all their activities to count things no May Save a Life how is that R if that gun is converted any of this equipment that is used a badge that is lost I mean I understand Chief well how is the badge going to you know we can take one we can take one thing at a time we can take the gun start with the gun and obviously you said that's a great concern to have a gun that could be converted that you don't know where it is right now no Rob I'm telling you right now it's somewhere in our training Bureau well let's go we could go look okay Rob you know what again it's one you don't the whole point Chief is with all due respect you just don't know where it is correct so lost or stole correct and there's a police report that says it right so what I'm challenging is the fact is how can you guarantee me that it's in one of these places with the training officer you can't in the long run I would say that based on my experience and that's what I'm basing this conversation on that it will pop back up that it'll be found in another audit what happened with the other shotgun rob it popped up in another years later not five years later six I forget you know several years later okay it was looked for and reported on two reports in 2005 through 2007 Mr I read the same reports you did I read that two vest for thing did you give did you read the explanation the officers gave for why their vest wasn't there yeah I think so I'd have to look at it okay well I read it Rob I mean I actually read the reports and I know that that the core values that we deal with we started this conversation that if it's a careless act the officers are on the hook for it you know what but this system this value system that we go by we entrust people but we also know that people lose things you know what and and yes it's shocking that you know we lost a gun a converted firearm that's used for training cuz that's what it's used for for you know I'm sure that if we were to get the right people we could you've lost a magazine of 14 rounds hollow point I think well I don't know what the type of bullets are but magazines and magazines come unseated they're on our belts we chase a lot of people and how was that lost people have their cars broke into there's a variety of reasons why you can understand a lot of you deal with it this is your equipment on a job but you see with the public most people aren't dealing with Firearms bulletproof s tactical gear so we go whoa so you know well we go we go wo and we go into percentages okay because that's the world that we have to live in two vest out of I don't know 3,000 6,000 I mean how many vest you know for what period of time it's two officers who took responsibility they lost their equipment they didn't hide behind it they didn't Sher behind it they came forward and said you know my soft body armor is missing I placed it there it wasn't there when I got back at least that's where I recall it being that's what I read in the report cops that you know lost things and under Chief Flynn realize that they can come forward and just say you know what I made a mistake I don't know where it is cops who chase things every day we wear Duty belts and that stuff flings off all the time you know what and the difference between other people and us is we're usually pursuing people and the difference is when we're chasing you and can actively see you it's a foot pursuit I lose sight of you it becomes a search it's a dangerous job we got to keep our eye on you know the ball and so so when we chased off things fling everybody who's ever went jogging or done anything athletic realizes that you know stuff starts flying off and you read the majority of the reports you know one of the other things was people that retired are separated from the police department Rob I noticed you're not talking about the the Caps the sweaters all that I mean cuz that's all there too jacket jackets when people retire you know what we're looking for that jacket or people that were fired that didn't didn't return it heard that too you and it's diff that's got to be I mean you fired for a reason but you kept the equipment you know and that's that is concerning but you know what is our recourse you you're law enforcement I mean you're the ones that make that recourse well there you know we are a nation of laws and we have to follow that and someone comes forward and says you know what I'm in you know I'm in jail and I think that was the one case we're talking about one person under indictment who said I don't have that stuff you know concerning absolutely you know I read about ID cards of people that retired that happens people lose things you know the concerning thing is and you know what we have to look at it from two perspectives one should we be good stewards of the resources we're given I would say we are excellent stewards of the resources we're given whether it is the fact that in 2007 we overspent our overtime budget by 40% we've come in under budget for the next four consecutive years I would think that the taxpayers would appreciate that what is the equipment budget that would involve this kind of stuff do you know we'd have to replace it no I don't you know and Rob I can get that for you I can get the amount of money that we spend on this and what particular items cost um you know some of them they put values on that's you know yeah again you know I would like to say that that we are good stewards we hold our membership and we hold each other and we hold ourselves accountable if we lose things we come forward and we say we lost it you know it it always goes to this this notion of and I've worked with with our federal partners for many years and as we move into this cycle of Elections about police uniforms you know it's always one of our concerns that as a visit's about to occur are we missing any equipment cars and Equipment it's absolutely a concern you know it's the concern and like you know you did your homework I did mine I see the same things we're talking about but in much greater numbers the city of Seattle when they did the exact same no but again we have to look at comparables and you know Seattle's a much bigger city than Milwaukee how big is their police force I'd have to I double check but I double check and you'll find that they're equipping the same amount of people we are that's then that's fair much you know and so I I think that what we look at is this notion that is this a gotcha no it's not a gotcha it's something that we're way ahead of we're way aware of it you know I mean if you're ahead of it we had to pay $80 just to get a database because you don't track it we had to pay that through public records so you don't per se track this is what I was told well I you asked for police reports and no but we specifically paid for a database to be created so that this information can be pulled up so it doesn't appear like there's any tracking that's these are reports right but there's no single report that would track stolen or missing police equipment well I happen to know something about the open what you asked for was a record that did not exist in the foran which you asked for it so it had to be created you were asked if you wanted us to create one so you don't so you don't track that in in a annual report or a bi-weekly report well are we talking about open records now because you know I'm really not the person that should be speaking about open records but no but I'm I'm looking at reports you no reports but I'll tell this right now Rob we know how many radios were're missing you wanted the report I just know how many radios in the circumstance where the reports were I don't know but I know exactly how many radios I can tell you the officers names that are missing their radios but you don't track it in one single database so that you could pull it up every week or no I would I would go to it and say I know the three cops names that are missing their radios and punch it up and find the report that way why not have a database where it goes into one place it's it's three reports on three radios it's I'm talking tactical gear I mean that would all go under the same thing that we did the public records request for yeah again you asked for something very specific and we had to build it because it doesn't exist a way to track this what you asked for and the format in which you asked for it didn't exist okay so if I ask for a different format you do track this stuff in a database there is no database no not again you're using the wrong word we use a reporting mechanism we use an RMS AR Reporting System you're asking for a specific report Rob that didn't exist cuz we don't we don't just told me it did exist no no no no Rob listen please listen Rob as I explain this you asked for something very specific in the format in which you wanted it okay all these records exist they're here but they're not compiled in one place the firearm section knows about every single fire they conduct all these audits we have audit reports we have all kinds of different things that we do Rob that's not what you asked for okay you know the devil this is a combination of all those like today you asked for my calendar which calendar do you want from me Rob do you want my Microsoft Outlook that shows that I have a very busy schedule you know I don't start yeah and and and I and I say to myself okay you didn't like us asking for your calendar I don't mind Rob I have my calendar printed it doesn't bother me you know what here's the thing we are stewards of all of this equipment you ask for reports in a certain format we had to do that we asked you you know and I think that someone out there probably has all the exchanges about we don't do it that way you know and you said you'd pay for it and the customer is always right so we gave you what you asked for in the form in which you've asked for does it exist clearly it exists you said about a database it's data from our ar ar RMS this somebody just didn't type all this it was there you asked for it a certain way and that's it right that's the but you know yeah you know had you said hey can I go out you know think again much of what we do is we don't talk to anybody anymore we send emails and do requests that way and you know what a lot of times we can get you what you need in the way that we do it but if we have to create things we got to you know and that's what it was it was created for you it was it's your report it's your request you know so I guess you know and we got to we're getting way off subject but the reality is yeah we're Way Beyond my thing um the reality is this we are stewards of this property we have rules you know Rob one of the things that you have to realize is that we discipline officers that are careless with their equipment is that what you know the taxpayers want is that what they sometimes depending on on the circumstances in which property is lost stolen defaced damage if it was carelessness if it was a willful act we take corrective measures if people lose things like I did chasing a suspect and it comes undone and it falls off we don't punish our cops for that and the only final thing Chief and I appreciate the time but I do for a full disclosure I do want to get video If Tim will just switch around and show that this interview was recorded by your media department is that explain what he's doing for us he's actually in our Professional Standards Bureau and we record everything that we do all of our interactions every interview you do is recorded like this I do yeah and what's the goal of that I think that you know as much as I'm having the conversation with you I should have the same conversation with our officers and so that the last video I did was about uh what was it about Hearts cardiovascular cardiovascular stuff so it's all it is so if I put a public records request for all the other media interviews that you recorded there' be tons of them no I don't do a lot of media interviews Rob but whatever you know Rob this doesn't have to be this way you know what what do you mean by that I mean that if if people were to watch the the tenor of this conversation I'm trying to give you you know as much of an open and honest answer as I can to everything that you're asking about and I would say that your tenor was aggressive but that's you know what that's how I interpreted it that's how I interpret this interaction is is you know what as much as you know the dramatic flop of the things that's great the reality is I read those reports I looked at how our officers did that we have we have a you know a code of conduct in the first first thing is about competency the first thing about being competent is you know what safeguarding this equipment it's 1-10 out of all the things that we have in this book and in our six core values this is the 10th thing we address that you have equipment and before that is about you know our Authority and and those measures the 10th thing we're talking about is we have a finite number of resources and you have to be respectful of that you have to take care of the stuff you have you know much like that uniform that sit back there that's you know 31 years old or 30 years old that was given to me by the city of Milwaukee that's still in perfect condition so you know I as much as as much as this been discussed I think if you you know if if people were to look at Google and go look at this you know and you'll see that this is not unique to us the badge I think it's because of the design of them I don't know the poor design maybe somebody could figure out a better way of doing it I know that a lot of places and even our department has gone to the patches a fixed to our outter garments so what else you got Rob other words I got to get to other meetings than Chief I appreciate you [Music]