okay so technically right now yes you could be arrested could I need a yes or no like I need you to tell me if you don't give me your ID right now I'm going to arrest you why why would I say that to you because I need that Al tomat cuz right now you're asking uh so here's the deal by saying here's the deal could what we are trying to do is we're trying to be cooperative with you and have you be cooperative with us help us through this matter up I'm giving you the opportunity to no I need that ultimatum I will give you my idea if you say that I'm going to go get arrested if I don't give it to you you'll give us if we say that if you say that yes sir cuz that's already grounds for me to set up litigation against you so you're threatening to sue us say it and I'll give you my ID just say if you don't give me your ID I'm going to arrest you so you want us to threaten you you yes I want you to give me that ultimatum you really want the ID threaten you that's not how this is going why because you know you can't you know you don't have that ultimat you know you can't because you know that opens up for litigation he knows that he is specifically not articulating that threat because he knows he doesn't have qualif ified immunity and as soon as he makes that threat as soon as he makes that statement he's liable and then pretending that we're cooperating with each other we're being friendly we're being nice to each other we're this is all about kindness and decency shut up dude this guy's trying to put you in jail so the other the next the next step in this process would be would you give us consent to check your room n to make sure that you have no alcohol in your possession I not consent to any serges nor seizures okay very good all right um that's it this is completely up to you how you want to play this you can get a warrant he has exhausted every Avenue of trying to get this guy to voluntarily lay down his rights can we please search your room no you need to get a warrant will you please cooperate with us and just lay down your rights and tell us that you broke the law so that we can just convict you no no I won't and now he's going to get a little bit more aggressive with the intimidation tactics hey what's up everybody it's James Freeman today's video is coming to us from Joel Martinez on YouTube the video was uploaded about a month ago he's at New Mexico State University somebody calls the police and tells them that they witnessed him carry beer into his dorm room and they show up to try to investigate the report that he is allegedly a minor in possession of alcohol oh sorry I can help you is there anyone else in here uh no it's just me okay you mind just opening the door that way I can see uh you trying to what you trying to look for I just want to make sure there's no one El in there start and then I'll talk to you there's no one in there right now okay come out here and talk to me then yeah already winning immediately the cop says can you open the door so I can see in there no you don't you don't have to open the door and let him see in there he's actually looking for something specific he's not necessarily trying to see if there's somebody else in there um maybe he is but more importantly he's looking for a case of beer honest with you we got to report that um you were seen walking into your dorm with alcohol so is there alcohol in there uh I don't answer questions what's your name and your BGE number officer purle and M you police title and name security officer oh security officer okay okay you have an idea with you I do okay can I see it uh you suspect me of a crime I do okay what crime and how can you articulate it minor imp possession of alcohol we got a report that you were walked in so it's like here that they say they said thing okay okay it's a yeah right it's like they said that he has and that that's how you going articulate it so we don't have to go down this route if you want to if you want to go down this route we can well I really don't but like you're I'm studying right now I'm doing homework get knocked on my door I'm out here I want to know what's on you say that they they said that there's alcohol in this room okay oh they saw me going into this room and that there's alcohol in there how can you articulate it though okay so that's why I'm here talking to you yeah okay so I still need ID you uh no and then we need to go from there yeah have to or you have to suspect me of a crime I I do you you you realize that uh cops in New Mexico don't have qualified immunity right I do that I do okay so from from here and on just let's just be careful in what what you about to do right now you're saying that you want my ID but right now you're not you or yourself can articulate a crime that I've committed okay so so I already explained to you why I'm here why I need I know what you're he but okay is my D going to tell you there's alcohol in that room no but I still need to identify you my name is Joel Joel what Joel I need your first last name and your date of birth no you don't yeah someone in the comment section said uh we don't have to go down this rout route uh that is that is just the most vague intimidation tactic that all Police use we don't have to go down this route what route is this route the route where you exercise your rights and the cop has to actually do an investigation rather than you're just giving up all the rights and the cop doesn't have have to investigate anything look what route is this route he's just being incredibly vague but absolutely a statement like that is intended to intimidate you because most people are going to think um most people I mean when I was younger I didn't know how to deal with the police and so when they said those words I'm telling you I was scared every time they said those words I was scared holy smokes oh man I saw it as a threat of arrest um now if you go to court if you when you up in court and and I tell the uh the court well he said we don't have to go down this route so I assumed I was going to get arrested he never said that he knows what he's saying he knows how he's saying it he knows what he's doing he knows his goal is to intimidate ignorant people who don't know the law and don't know their rights by saying that incredibly vague phrase what does it actually mean nothing all it means is the cop is trying to intimidate you that's it if you don't want to provide that you don't want to call officer Donovan or one of your supervisors here yeah I can get a sergeant calling up because right now this is not what you want to do right now cuz this is a violation of my fourth amendment okay all right let me let me get a sergeant over here okay yeah all right while we're getting while he's getting the sergeant it's not an entirely bad idea to look up the legislation to know what it is to look up the case law and know what it is but it's also a very good idea to realize that it it doesn't necessarily mean anything just because the law says that you're right just because the case law says you're right one doesn't mean you're not going to get arrested and two doesn't even mean you're not going to get convicted all right um and and maybe for those who are new you're like what that doesn't make any sense look just stay subscribed to the channel for a while continue watching you'll see exactly what I mean but uh this guy is a law student at uh New Mexico State University and he actually posted the link to uh this case law after an anonymous caller reported to Miami dat police that a young black male standing at uh particular bus stop and wearing a plaid shirt was carrying a gun officers went to the bus stop and saw three black males one of whom respondent JL was wearing a plaid shirt so he fits the description that the anonymous caller called in apart from the tip the officers had no reason to suspect any of the three of any illegal conduct the officers did not see a firearm or observe any unusual movements one of the officers frisked JL and seized a gun from his pocket uh who was then he at the time he was almost 16 he was charged under state law with carrying a concealed firearm without a license and possessing a firearm under the age of 18 the trial court granted his motion to suppress the gun as fruit of an unlawful search uh the intermediate appell Court reversed but the Supreme Court of Florida quashed that decision and held uh the search as invalid under the Fourth Amendment that's essentially why uh this guy feels that he's got grounds to that he's saying N I don't I don't think you really have reasonable articulable suspicion I think all you have is hearsay uh and I think it's an excellent argument does it hold up in court who knows oh I'm yeah that's my room okay you to just hang out out here then is he detained that's fine I just don't want anyone in the room you could go in then if you're if he's not detained he's free to go yeah he's free to go but he can't go in the room he can't no not at this time all right just just let it be bro just they someone called and said that they saw uh or me walk in there with the case of beer but that's all they have so so it's an investigation I'm talking to him he doesn't want to identify himself so until we get this figured out there's a sergeant on the way that's going to talk to him until this gets figured out I don't want anyone to go in the room you're free to go anywhere else that's fine you're not detained or anything but that's what's going on all is anything going to happen if I don't identify myself you can be arrested for concealing identity yes so okay so you that's what you I want you to say if you don't ID to me right now if I don't give you my ID that you're going to arrest me I want you to give me that ultimatum so just hold on you want to wait you said you wanted to wait to speak to a supervisor so let's just do that okay okay then okay thank you and keep your hands out of your pockets for me or what appreciate it so made contact with method door he got his phone out started recording right away okay I explained to him why we were here got a report that he walked in there with alcohol um asked him if anyone else is in the room he's to said that no one else is in the room like okay can you open the door so I can see make sure no one else is in there I'm not going to do that okay don't come out here and talk to me okay so he comes out oh are you suspecting me of crime right now am I being the king all that kind of stuff um explained to him what was reported to us that we he's suspected of taking alcoh into his dorm room underage um and that I to identify him um like well that's all here say um what is what is that going to do if I if you identify me well we're suspecting you of of a crime it's a misdemeanor so I at least need to identify you what we go what we do from there whatever but doesn't he gave me his first name as Joel and doesn't want to give last name or date of birth um and asked to speak to officer denovan or one of my supervisors so cool okay so right now we have minor possession of alcohol possibly and he asked me if anything's going to happen if I don't or if he doesn't give me his name and date of birth I told him that potentially you can be arrested for concealing identity we want to go that route okay I want you to give me that ultimatum right here right now that if I don't give you my ID that you're going to arrest me for concealing identity and I said well you want to talk to the supervisor so how about we just wait till the Serge here um he said that you're aware are you aware that NSU or that New Mexico doesn't have qualified immunity yeah so he went down that route so I think that's what he's trying to get at most cops around the country and and even in New Mexico before this the qualified immunity was abolished they they really didn't think twice about this stuff when they were told hey you might be wrong on the law they didn't go look up the law they didn't go make phone calls they were very very quick to just go handson so look at the change that qual abolishing qualified immunity has made here all of a sudden when they aren't 100% sure that they're right instead of just acting they seem to be taking a step back and say you know what we've got time I don't have to slap cuffs on you right here right now we're all still here nobody's leaving why don't I take some time chill things out and figure out whether I'm right or wrong looks like that's the result of abolishing qualified immunity that's pretty much where we're at okay now I'm going to say this if we start putting police in prison where they belong for violating people's rights imagine how much more that would change um violating someone's rights is a crime it's a crime it's it's not a civil infraction and so why we even Sue police for violating rights is is on me I I I think it was a A system that was kind of essentially set up to to pacify people while not actually creating accountability but imagine now if every single time a cop violates your rights he was criminally prosecuted I bet they wouldn't have even gone as far as they did in this incident if that were the case hi hi name and bber please Sergeant John love my badge number is 212 212 all right thank you uh officer said here that if I don't ID I will be subject to arrest is that true it's possible yes possible yes or no I need I need that ultimatum or else I won't get my ID okay so technically right now yes you could be arrested could I need a yes or no like I need you to tell me if you don't give me your ID right now I'm going to arrest you why why would I say that to you because I need that ultimatum cuz right now you're asking yes and I have the right to say no cuz you're asking you're not it's not a lawful order I need you to make it a lawful order being detained for suspicion of minor um possession of alcohol mhm we need to see your ID okay and if not and if not you could be considered identity cuz New Mexico statute says that concealing of identity is a secondary charge I would have to have been arrested or suspected of a crime right now you hear just hear safe arrested or suspected you're being suspected of having possession on what on what grounds okay so do you have any alcohol in your possession I don't answer questions on what grounds so you don't have any alcohol in your possession on walk grounds I don't answer questions on walk ground okay yeah that's her room bro n it's her they're trying to go in bro they trying to ID me and [ __ ] but nah okay so who are you talking to I'm recording you you're recording at all so if you want to hang you can that's fine so here's the deal by saying here's the deal could what we trying to do is we're trying to be cooperative with you and have you be cooperative with us help us through this matter okay I gave him my name Jo wait wait wait let me transl that by saying we could arrest you we're trying to be cooperative so he refuses to actually make the threat what you guys need to understand and I should have mentioned this yesterday when I was talking about Jeff Gray but what you need to understand is that the threat of arrest is enough uh that your rights have been violated you don't have to actually be arrested for your rights to be violated he knows that he is specifically not articulating that threat because he knows he doesn't have qualified immunity and as soon as he makes that threat as soon as he makes that statement he's liable and and the guy who's who's filming this knows this they both know it but the cop wants to sit there and act oh no well we're trying to be cool with you are not trying to be cool you are trying to get this guy to voluntarily lay down his rights clever clever little manipulative bugger right here uh and this is what they all do they're all trained to do this this is just a clever way to intimidate you without crossing the line of actually making a threat and then pretending that we're cooperating with each other we're being friendly we're being nice to each other we're this is all about kindness and decency shut up dude this guy's trying to put you in jail you don't need my last name and you do not need my date of birth unless you want to run me for unless you want to run my name through your system are you trying to run my name through the system you have warrants for your arrest I don't answer questions I don't answer questions I'm asking questions I don't it's my fifth amendment is it or is it not I'm asking the questions here so the question is is that like the officer told you're being suspected of having possession of alcohol underage so in that case the easiest way to prevent this is for you to let us know either you have you got somebody saw you carry a case of beer you have case of beer in your possession I don't answer questions okay all right um so the other the next the next step in this process would be would you give us consent to check your room n to make sure that you have no alcohol in your possession I do not consent to any serges nor seizures okay very good all right um that's it this is completely up to you how you want to play this you can get a warrant he has exhausted every Avenue of trying to get this guy to voluntarily lay down his rights can we please search your room no you need to get a warrant will you please cooperate with us and just lay down your rights and tell us that you broke the law so that we can just convict you no no I won't and now he's going to get a little bit more aggressive with the intimidation tactics or you get so or you have probable cost right now we do have reasonable suspicion that possibly a crime had been committed we're trying to investigate that mhm you're certainly welcome to refuse if you wish I know but we need to ID you or and if we do not if you do not present your identification you can face a nontra citation you're saying could I need you to say you will I'm giving you the opportunity to no I need that ultimatum I will give you my idea if you say that I'm going to go get arrested if I don't give it to you so you'll give us if we say that if you say that yes cuz that's already grounds for me to set up litigation against you so you're threatening to sewers I ain't threaten nothing brother that's what you just said it's not a threat it gives you grounds it's not a threat it gives me grounds does it or does it not I don't answer questions okay so the easiest and simp solution to this is for you to tell us your name date of birth Joel Joel what Joel okay by just saying Joel there's a thousand Joels I need a last name of the date of birth going to run confir you my are for the report I need to have your name and I didn't even have to give you my first name for that report you could literally put the citizen or the or the guy or the suspect yes you can work like that yes it does I'm a law student here you're not going to come over here and try to violate my rights so I'm not trying to violate your rights I'm trying to be cooperative with you and you be Cooper with us coopera and that is absolutely true I'm not trying to violate your rights I'm trying to get you to cooperate with me while I cooperate with you that is absolutely true because he hasn't violated this guy's rights until he either threatens force or violence against him to take away his rights or uses force or violence against him to take his away his rights I don't think the courts will ever see these manipulative tactics of getting you to voluntarily give up your rights as a violation of your rights so you're right at this point he is literally not trying to violate his rights he's trying to get him to give him up that's not a lie you never win anything by cooperating that I'm not going to give my idea unless I'm going to I'm going to get arrested say it and I'll give you my ID just say if you don't give me your ID I'm going to arrest you so you want us to threaten you yes I want you to give me that ultimatum you really want the ID threaten you that's not how this is why because you know you can't you know you don't have that ultimate you know you can because you know that opens up for litigation got to love this guy I love it nailing it look what he's made him do now this guy has to go and look up the law because he doesn't know if he's right these cops don't know if they're right and normally there's qualified immunity so it doesn't matter if they're right they just arrest you no matter what whether they're right or wrong they don't care there's there's no consequence so why not now the qualified immunity is gone he's tried everything to get this guy to give up his rights and now the cop has has to actually go and look up the law and find out and try to find out if he has legal grounds to do what he wants to do but notice he won't make the threat because he doesn't even know if he has legal grounds at this point make them work and to make this clear I'm detained right now right corre yeah and don't you love that how how cops always I mean that where'd you get your law degree Google YouTube where'd you get your you got your YouTube law degree look that's nothing to be ashamed of you can find everything on the internet almost everything you can find almost anything on the internet both truth and lies there is nothing wrong with researching with looking things up with admitting for all of us admitting I don't know I don't know the answer let me go look it up there is there is no shame in that as a matter of fact that is far more respectable to say yeah I I don't know let me go look that up um than to just pretend that you know everything when you know damn when everyone knows damn well you don't have to stay over oh no I can't I'm I'm telling you you need to stay over here just keep recording Sean don't let him intimidate you dude I love this guy oh let me take my hand on keep recording Sean don't let him intimidate you oh let me take my hand out my pocket thank you there's two guys right here with Glocks and scared of a scared of a 19-year-old with the phone bro well I'm not scared of a 19-year-old with the phone I have come on man don't do that okay don't do that that's just that's just do you see something in my pocket well we would like for you to do that for us just to be cooperative okay just to be cooperative like just like for you to say what you want me to do are you googling the L right now cuz that's really what you should be doing right now all right you okay with that yeah continue are you sure you're okay with that yeah I give you permission yes thank you very much it's okay I appreciate it yes I give you permission you know and the cops I I somebody later in the video is going to going to talk about how this this guy is um Joel is so disrespectful these cops aren't being cool they aren't being nice they're being quite disgusting and manipulative and the fact that Joel sits there with a smirk on his face and tells the cop yeah yeah yeah you have permission to do that I give you permission way he talks down to him you know just because his tone is different than the cops he's giving exactly what he's getting he's giving exactly what he's getting which is cool calm collected disrespect why we need your name and date of birth I'm going to read you the law because you are a law student okay according to New Mexico it's all being recorded yeah I know my body so I'm I'm going use my my own so concealing identity consists of concealing one's true name or Identity or disguising ones with the intent to obstruct the due execution of the law am I obstructing or yes technically you are with the intent to intimidate hinder or interrupt any public officer us mhm or any person person in illegal performance of his duties or exercise of his rights under the law of the United States okay so your investigation is investigating that I'm in possession of alcohol right that's exactly if I don't give you if I give you my IDs I going to tell you if I do or do not have alcohol in that room just a way find me with something no the ID is so that we can identify who we are talking to if you wish to deny us access to that room that is totally within your rights I know but you refusing to identify yourself To Us by name and date of birth yeah full name m date of birth that is concealing identity yeah okay okay so just tell me that if I don't give you the ID you're going to arrest me just say it show us your ID we need to see your ID or you will be arrested thank you there we go there we go now he's got grounds now he's got legal grounds for a lawsuit against him yeah you got that [ __ ] pigs for real why do you use that term cuz why the [ __ ] are you searching my [ __ ] like we're not searching your [ __ ] that's identific pigs for real is that what he said and pigs for real thank you yall got that right yeah yeah you got that [ __ ] pigs f for real why do you use that term cuz why the [ __ ] are you searching my [ __ ] like we're not searching your [ __ ] that's that's a seize of my identification is it or is it not it's not a seizure we a seizure of my identification yes or no we just need to see who you are in order to go in investigation told you my [ __ ] name your legal name your first name what is my Joel not the legal name or what Joel what he has my ID go look at it perfect that's all we needed thank you that's all we needed mhm let's go down here real quick please am I able to go in my room no not yet just hold up for just a minute please guys okay so he's denying us for consent to se but we have M ID so we're going to take her make sure we take a report yep and then um so basically we got called somebody that suspected him of having alcohol in his Norm room caring a case of beer in okay he 19 years old um we will take a case report on it okay um there will be a case number drawn pretty much basically he's pushing the issue on the concealing identity but now that we' now that we've negated that we don't have to do anymore uh we will take a report just to document okay question wait a second wait a second so he just articulated on his body he walked away and articulated on his body camera that uh getting the ID actually didn't have anything to do with the investigation it was for him to write a report yeah we'll get that here we'll get that here in just a minut all right thank you appreciate it Joel we're done okay have a good night you guys your thank you disgusting m if we really wanted to push the issue we could stop and lock the room down and get it get a search warrant but we have an anonymous complaint does an anonymous caller telling telling you something create uh Reasonable articulable Suspicion the answer is no therefore did he violate his rights by by taking his ID even if we don't even have to necessarily go to the part about whether or not it was obstruction uh by him not giving ID um he didn't have the reasonable articulable suspicion in the first place therefore anything and everything uh the detention in and of itself uh was illegal based on that then really kind of really kind of one of those things that's up in the air we don't want to we don't want to do that I apprciate you though I'm going get complaints on both of your asses and chief Donovan is gonna know about this [ __ ] cuz that he knows who I am chief Donovan knows you Chief Donovan knows who I am okay very good all right app it f up for real have a nice day yeah and did you find anything that ID brother did you find out if there's alcohol in here or not with that ID you denied us consent so that's fine I didn't exactly so we're not going to we're not going to argue with you have get the [ __ ] out of here well this is actually a common area so we're allowed to be here out go work I pay you for something [ __ ] out of here yes I pay you for something [ __ ] out of here cuz you [ __ ] got my ID for no [ __ ] reason brother okay get the [ __ ] out of here have a nice day sir thank you fck have a nice day [ __ ] you yeah [ __ ] [ __ ] you bye-bye have a nice day