So, you don't know if you were acting in accord with police department policy or not? I don't recall. I don't know the policies off the top of my head. No genius. So, you can't testify today that you weren't in violation of the policies. I would have to go look at it, but I know I was doing the right thing. The right thing according to who? Policies. I can't think of policies on top of my head. Well, how can you have it both ways, Mr. Chop? If you don't know the policies, how can you say that you were doing the right thing according to the policies? I have no idea. So, is this recorded? You're planning to put this on the internet or something? Cuz my thing is I've been threatened up. You don't need to explain anything to me because I literally don't care. I've been threatened up. I literally don't care. This isn't some free will state, man. This how it is in the state of Mississippi. Cuz my thing is I've been threatened up. I literally don't care. If somebody's planning to release this or put it on the internet or something like that, then you know we're going to file the undo publicity motion. So, a motion for a protective order. So, I just want to be clear and put everybody on notice of that. I literally don't care. So, did you make any mistakes? No, I did not make any mistakes. A couple of years ago, Jeff Gray with Honor Your Oath Civil Rights Investigations was standing on a public sidewalk in front of City Hall in Wavelin, Mississippi, holding a sign that said, "God bless the homeless veterans." He was approached by Sergeant Joffreion, who told Jeff that he had a personal complaint against him from the mayor of the town. While Sergeant Joffreion was named in a lawsuit, which is where this deposition came from, he never faced any personal consequences for his actions on this day, and he knows he never will, which is why he acts so smug in his deposition. How you doing, man? You got some? Good morning, gentlemen. God bless our homeless veterans. Yep. I'm a vet, too, man. All right, cool. Air Force. All right. You got your ID on you? What for? Vagrancy. Vagrancy. Yes, sir. So, what is the crime of vagrancy? I can't think of off the top of my head right now. You don't know what the crime of the vag if I had the statute in front of me. I could then tell you. Were you are you aware that the statute had been repealed 5 years before you accused Mr. Gray of vagrancy? All right. So, how did he commit the crime of vagrancy? How could he possibly have committed a crime that had been repealed 5 years ago that you can't even define? All right. You got your idea on these? What for? Vagrancy. vagrancy. Yes, sir. Got several complaints on here. You're begging for food, money, stuff like that. That's not true. Okay. Well, I'm just out here for that reason. Okay. Who had you received a complaint from that he was begging for m food, money, and stuff like that? That would be I don't know. Well, you said you got several complaints that he was begging, but you don't know who any of the several complaints are. I didn't receive any complaints. I was begging for money. Got several complaints on here. You begging for food, money, stuff like that. Where did you get the information that there have been several complaints that he was begging for food, money, and stuff like that? Top of my head. That's not true. Okay. Well, I'm just out here for that reason. Okay. So, do you have your ID on you? Am I required to give you ID? Yes, you are. What happen if I don't give it to you? You're going to jail. Period. Really? You said to Mr. Gray that you had received several complaints that he was begging for food money, stuff like that. And he responded, "That's not true." And you said, "Well, I'm just out here for that reason." And again asked for identification. I need a yes. Yes. And he asked you whether he was required to provide identification and you responded that he was. And he asked if I don't what will happen? And you said you're going to jail. Period. Am I required to give you ID? Yes, you are. What would happen if I don't do that to you? You're going to jail. Period. Do you recall saying that? Yes. All right. So, what were you going to take Mr. Um, Gray to jail for if he did not provide you identification. Failure to comply. Failure to comply with what? With a lawful order. And what was the lawful order? Identification. Under what circumstances are you entitled to demand identification from a person? Reasonable suspicion that crime occurred. All right. And what reasonable suspicion did you have that he had committed a crime? harassing customers, peeping through windows, repeatedly asking people for money. But you just told me that you did. You're not aware of one single person. I don't know their names. Well, who did you speak to? Where did you interact with these persons beforehand? I didn't. So, how did you have a reasonably articulable suspicion that he had committed a crime if you had not spoken to one single person? can't identify one single complainant and had no information personal knowledge of anything about begging for food or vagrancy. Yeah, sir. I'm standing on a public sidewalk engaged in constitutionally protected activity. Correct. But I'm letting you know you're going to go to jail no questions asked. Even if I'm standing on a public sidewalk. How many times do I got to explain it to you? So if I don't give you ID, I'm going to jail. You're going to jail for failure to identify. Then you said you're going to jail for failure to identify. Um, what ordinance or state uh code section is the crime of failure to identify? There isn't one, right? Why would you say that you're going to jail for failure to identify? It is. I don't know. Can I just leave? If you wish to do so, Bond need to identify you. I don't wish to do so. I'd like to stay here. You're not going to stay here. Period. I'm going let you know. Do I have to leave? Yes. Why? Because I'm instructing you, I'm giving you a lawful order to leave. And if I don't leave, you're going to jail. Was Mr. Gray on a public sidewalk? Yes. Is city hall a public property? Yes. Why was he not free to stay there and continue what he was doing? I'm not sure. But you told him that he wasn't. And And now you don't know why you said correct. But over here again, then he asked why he had to leave. And you said because I'm instructing you, I'm giving you a lawful order to leave. You remember saying that? Yes. All right. What was your authority for a quote lawful order that he must leave the public sidewalk on the public city hall? Sure. Then you told him that if he didn't leave, he was going to jail again. Do you remember saying that? I don't recall. I'm giving you a lawful order to leave. And if I don't leave, you're going to jail. I'll go to jail for fair. And your officer, Sergeant Joffrey. Sergeant Joffrean. Officer Anderson. Y'all have a good day. You got your ID with you? So if I don't go if I don't leave, I'll go to jail. Yep. Give me your ID first. And in your report, you said Sergeant Joffrey advised if did not leave, he was going to jail for disorderly conduct. What is the crime of disorderly conduct? I don't have the law book in front of me. Who was he disturbing? That's why I was investigating. What conduct was he committing that was disorderly? That's why I was investigating. What What conduct did you observe that had breached the peace? That's why I was investigating. No. What conduct had you observe that was a breach of the peace? I didn't observe any conduct. Your report says Sergeant Joffrey advised that if he did not leave that he was going to jail for disorderly conduct. I can play the whole video for you again with Sergeant Josh if you'd like. That's fine. But at no point in this approximately 5 minute video do you use or ever utter the word disorderly conduct. Okay. So, would you agree with me that your report is inaccurate when you said that you advised him he was going to jail for disorderly conduct? No. Would you how how could that not be inaccurate if you never said the word disorderly conduct? I don't know. And if I don't give you ID, I'll go to jail. Yes. Even though I've explained to you that I'm engaged in constitutionally protected activity. I don't care if you explain it to me or not. Safeguarded by the First Amendment. It's freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and freedom of assembly on a traditional public form. the steps of city hall. Correct. I'm not begging for money. You got your ID? I'm not begging for money. Okay. You got your ID. Do I need to show you my ID? You need to show me your ID. Yes, sir. Or what? You're going to jail. Well, you guys, I tell you, man. I'm going to put you on notice before I show you my ID and before you do all this. No, you're going to show me your ID right now. You can do whatever you wish other than that. You guys are idiots, man. Okay, that's your opinion. You guys are really are dumb. Dumb as a bag of handers. Okay, that's perfectly fine. Let me get back up here. I'm trying to leave. George 6004337081. Is my ID going to tell you if I'm committing a crime or not? 43370081. Doesn't matter if you commit a crime or not. You have to identify in reference to a complaint. What you just said though, it doesn't matter whether you committed a crime or not. You have to identify. Do you believe that to be an accurate statement on the law? to the for reword that. No, I'm not going to reword that. Then I'm not going to answer it. Read it back. You just said there it doesn't matter whether you committed a crime or not. You have to identify. Do you believe that to be an accurate statement of the law? Yeah, they have reason to identify someone because you're violating. No, you need to have reasonable artistic suspicion that a crime is a foot. You I do have reasonable suspicion. I just instructed you as a so vagrancy. Yeah. What what ordinance is that? city ordinance. Okay, we're back to vagrancy. Okay, he asked you what crime you were investigating. You said vagrancy right there. You heard it correct? Not harassing, not stalking. You didn't say that. Okay. All right. And we've already established the vagrancy is not a crime. Correct. So, you couldn't have been invigating him for the crime of vagrancy when there is no such crime. Correct. Correct. Even though I've explained to you that I'm engaged in constitutional protection. You don't need to explain anything to me because I literally don't care. My question for clarification is when you said I literally don't care. What did you literally not care about? I don't know. Was it I you literally didn't care about Mr. Gay's constitutionally protected expressive activity? No. Was it Mr. Gay's uh explanation that he had not committed any sort of crime? He was not a vagrant that you didn't care about. So, what didn't you care about? his attitude, his words coming out of his mouth. Explanation. Yeah. You don't need to explain anything to me because I literally don't care. That's what I was mean. If you were conducting an investigation, why would you not care about the explanation given by the person being investigated? Because he already stated that he wasn't committing the crime and that's not important to you. I was there for a reason and he denied it. So, it wasn't going any further from his perspective. It wasn't going any farther from his perspective. What What does that mean? His opinion. I still don't understand. What wasn't going any farther from his opinion? Denying that a crime occurred. So, are you saying you didn't care that he denied a crime been committed? No, I didn't say that. Well, I I I don't know what you don't care about. He denied a crime didn't occur. And that's what you didn't care about? His denial? No, that's not what I said. Okay. Well, please explain to me what you didn't care about. His opinion. He stated a crime didn't occur. I'll let it as that. I don't want to hear no more excuses. I wouldn't care. That's all that I don't know how to reconcile that with your earlier statement. It he didn't care about his denial. I hear in reference to a complaint. All right. By the mayor of this city. By the mayor. By the mayor of the city. Okay. If you have any complaints, you can send him an email, call him later on. You know what? At this point, I'm going to remain silent because this is obviously you guys, this isn't some free will state, man. This how it is. And stay in Mississippi. You said Mississippi isn't some free will state. What What is a free will state? I have not. What did you mean when you said Mississippi isn't a free will state? I don't recall. So, you don't have freedom in the state of Mississippi? If you don't like it, you can go back to Florida. Period. Is it city policy to tell people if you don't like it, you can go back to Florida? Period. I don't want to call them. How many other people have you told if they don't like it, they can go back to where they came from? I don't want to call. All right. Well, let me have my ID and I'll go back to Florida. I'll give you ID once it comes back. I don't want to go to jail. And you're a veteran? I'm a veteran. Yes. What did you serve? Huh? Where did you serve? That's none of your business. All right. Did you take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution when you served? I absolutely did. Yeah. And you're not doing that right now. Okay. That's your opinion. Did you take an oath uphold and defend the Constitution when you That is your opinion. Became a cop. That is your opinion. And you're not doing it right now. That's your opinion. You would agree that your oath required you to uphold the Constitution, whatever it may require. Which oath? Your oath of office. You took an oath to be a police officer, didn't you? I don't recall. Do you recall telling Mr. Gray that you had taken an oath? I don't recall what video things. Who is you guys? A supervisor. I'm the supervisor. Wow. I better start recording this. You can start recording. We've been recording the whole time since we made contact. Told you I'm not I'm not panhandling. I'm just coming out saying God bless veteran on this public sidewalk at the steps of city hall. You don't care. I'm going to jail. I just thought you was going to jail. You You just said there I never said you were going to jail. That wasn't true, was it? No, it wasn't. You never said I was going to jail. Boy, I wish I was recording before. Okay. You guys said you're recording. Can you get body camera videos in uh the state of Mississippi for public record request? Absolutely not. All right. There, Mr. Gray asked if it was possible to obtain body cam footage and you said absolutely not correct. Correct. That's not true either, is it? No. Okay. 114. Go ahead. That 27's going to come back to Marcus Jeffrey validative 294. What did she say? 29. What does that mean? You with dispatch? What does negative4 mean? With dispatch. You don't know what it means? Not at the top of my head. No. So your testimony today under oath is that when she said comes back to Marcus Jeffrey validative -294. You did not know what she meant. I know what it meant. And but you don't know what it means today. Are you still a sergeant with the Wland Police Department? Correct. And so if some I called you over the radio or dispatch called you over the radio and said validative -294, you would not know what that means today. Probably so. Not right now though. Why do you not know right now? All right, Mr. Jeffrey, you're free to go. Free to go. Can I stay? No, you cannot say. You got to go. So if I don't go, I'll go to jail. All right. You're a lawful order not to come back. Have a good evening. At the conclusion of the video, you said, "I'm giving you a lawful order not to come back." I think we've established that you can't site to me any law or statute or ordinance that authorize you to provide that lawful order. Correct. For the question, you can't site to me any authority that lets you as a sergeant for the Wavelin Police Department to give a lawful order not to come back. public property. No. Uh, is that Wavelin Police Department or W City of Wavelin, Mississippi policy to tell people that they can't return to public property? No. On how many occasions have you told someone that they can't return to public property? I have no more than once. I have no idea. You don't know if you've told any person other than Mr. Gray? No. Don't. Well, what was your basis for telling Mr. Gray that he couldn't stay there? That he had to leave the property under lawful order? I don't recall. You didn't have any authority to tell Mr. Gray that he couldn't stay or that he had to leave the property, did you? No. So, did you go speak with the mayor right then after Mr. Gray left? Correct. Is that on body cam? No. Why not? because it wasn't in the script of my duties as citizens of call. All right, let me move over that. Um, wasn't like general public interaction. What is the department's policy on activating the body cams? I can't recall off the top of my head. So, you don't know when you're supposed to activate them? I can't recall off the top of my head. And you're a supervisor at the Wland Police Department. Absolutely. You've been continuously employed by Wayland Police Department since May 30th, 2023. Absolutely. And you don't know the policy on body cams? Not off. How can you perform your job as a sergeant and supervisor at Wland Police Department if you don't know the policy? I don't know. You tell me. What's your understanding of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution? Yeah, I'm going to object. You've repeatedly asked this witness. It is asking him what his understanding of the first amendment is. I did not ask him what does the first amendment United States constitution protect, provide or anything else. I asked him about his understanding of it. If he doesn't understand the first amendment, then he can say that you've asked what what facts constitute what crimes. You've repeatedly asked him to draw legal conclusions. I asked him about his knowledge of the crimes that he accused. Okay. I want I want it on the the record that I I have asked you over and over again to quit asking these witnesses to draw legal conclusions because that is inappropriate. And if it continues, I'm going to ask for a protective order on it. I'm going to continue to ask the witnesses what their understanding of the laws that they were enforcing was. What's your understanding of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution? I don't recall. I'm not an expert as far as Do you know what the First Amendment protects at all? I don't recall. Do you know what the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution? Okay. I mean, I don't have any objection to obviously it being recorded, but just for everybody's benefit on here, if somebody's planning to release this or put it on the internet or something like that, then, you know, we're going to file a undo publicity motion. So, a motion for a protective order. So, I just want to be clear and put everybody on notice of that, but go ahead. Is there anything that you think you could have done better? I could have handled a little little different. I could have rewarded some things. What things? I don't I can't recall off top of my head. Do you need to watch the video again? No, I don't. So, if you're testimony is that you could have rewarded some things, but you don't know what things. I know what things. What things? Just handled it better. Talked a little different. How? I don't know. I'm not in those shoes right now. Well, how can you say that there are things you would have done, but I can't answer the question as to what they would have been? I just know I could have handled it better, but it will give me time to think on it. So, did you make any mistakes? No, I did not make any mistakes. Tell me what the elements of vagrancy are. I can't think of off the top of my head right now. I'm not Tell me what you recall. Tell me what you recall are the elements of the crime of vagrancy. I can't recall. I don't know the laws by heart. I just know what certain crimes are. I'm not a lawyer. So, what is the crime of vacancy? I can't say a verb for them. Giving you I'm not asking for evade. I'm asking you to tell me. You said you just know what the walls are. What is the crime of vagrancy? Can't answer that right now on top of my head. Well, you accused Mr. Gray of vagrancy the moment you stepped out of your cruiser. What were you accusing him of doing? Can't think of off the top of my head right now. You don't know what the crime of the vagrancy. If I if I had that statute in front of me, I could then tell you. Well, you are you aware that the statute had been repealed five years before you accused Mr. Gray of vagrancy? All right. So, how did he commit the crime of vagrancy? How could he possibly have committed a crime that had been repealed 5 years ago that you can't even define? I'm gonna object to the argumentation the argumentative nature of these questions. I I would ask you to calm down a little bit when you're asking the questions. I didn't arrest him or identify him off of vagrancy. Do we need to watch the video? If you don't want to watch him, you can. I'll not up to this point that we're talking about with vagrancy. How you doing, man? You got some ID on you? Good morning, gentlemen. God bless our homeless veterans. Yep. I'm a vet, too, man. All right, cool. Air Force. All right. You got your ID on you? What for? Vagrancy. Vagrancy. Yes, sir. That was you speaking, correct, sir? And you he asked you why you needed to see identification and you said vagrancy. Okay. All right. So what is vagrancy? I'm not a lawyer. But you are a law enforcement officer. Not the first but near the first word out of your mouth is vagrancy which we've already established a crime that was repealed 5 years earlier. Correct. So I'm I'm trying to understand Mr. Joffrey why you approach Mr. Gray who's standing there holding a sign and accused him of vagrancy. How did I accuse him of it? He asked why you would need identification and you responded vagrancy. Do we need to play this again? You can play it. Do you need to see it again to know that that's what happened? So you did accuse him of vagrancy. I didn't accuse him of vagrancy. So why did why would you say the word vagrancy? I don't know. Well, who would know? Can't answer that. In your criminal case report, is that your report? Yes. You prepared that? Yes. In that report under crime description and code section we have 97-3-107 stalking, following, harassing, threatening. Yes. What are the elements of that crime? I don't know. I'm not a lawyer. I would have to look at the state statute. You you can't, as we're sitting here today, articulate any of the elements of harassment. Not off the top of my head. No. You also said that you were investigating uh Mr. Grave in your report for violation of Wayland City Ordinance 82-1 pedaling. What is constitutes the crime of pedalling? I can't think it off the top of my head. I don't recall. How could you be investigating Mr. Gray for pedaling if you don't know what pedaling is? I knew what it was then, but I had the regression. What caused it to be fresh in your memory on May 30th, 2023 at approximately 9:46 a.m. that it's not fresh October 9, 2024. Did you I have no idea. Your testimony is that on May 30th, 2023, you knew what the crime of pedaling consisted of. Correct. Not a crime, city ordinance. Whatever pedaling may be is committing that not a crime. I'm not a lawyer, just a law enforcement officer. But you wrote a report, Mr. Joffrey, that said crime description pedaling. So according to your report, you were investigating Mr. Gray for pedaling. What is constitutes the elements of a violation of city ordinance number 38? I have no idea. Not off the top of my head. I don't recall. Did you know on May 30th, 2023? I don't recall either where my mind was or what I was thinking. Sergeant Joffrey was advised that the male that there had been several complaints regarding him asking for money parentheses violation of city ordinance number 38 in PN and harassing residents. And you have no idea what city ordinance 38 is. Oh, let's go back on the counter. Why did you describe Mr. Gray is argumentative because he wouldn't provide identification. Well, he had explained to you that he didn't believe he was obligated to provide you with identification under the circumstances. Correct. Correct. And he said, "What was his reason that he gave you? Why he didn't think that he had to provide you with identification?" That's your client. I'm not I'm not sure. No, that's not what I asked. What was the reason that he gave you? I'm not sure. I don't All right. Let's go back to the video then. Yeah. Sir, I'm standing on a public sidewalk engaging in constitutionally protected activity. Correct. But I'm letting you know you're going to go to jail. No questions asked. Even if I'm standing on a public sidewalk, how many times do I got to explain it to you? What What was his explanation? Something along lines standing on the sidewalk. Engaged in what? Freedom of speech. Is that what he said? I can't recall. Free expression. We We'll call it the same thing. him asserting his rights, saying that he was on a public sidewalk engaged in constitutionally protective activity. Is that what you termed argumentative? No, just fell in identify. Was Mr. Gray on a public sidewalk? Yes. Is city hall a public property? Yes. Why was he not free to stay there and continue what he was doing? I'm not sure. But you told him that he wasn't. And and now you don't know why. You said correct over here again. Then he asked why he had to leave and you said because I'm instructing you. I'm giving you a lawful order to leave. What was your authority for a quote lawful order that he must leave the public sidewalk on the public city hall? Sure. Then you told him that if he didn't leave he was going to jail again. Do you remember saying that? I don't recall. I'm giving you a lawful order to leave. And if I don't leave, you're going to jail. Did you see where you said if he didn't give identification, he was going to jail? Correct. To your knowledge, was a warrant check performed on Mr. Gray? I don't know. I don't work in dispatch. Were you agitated? Oh, absolutely. Why were you agitated? Honestly, because I don't want to have to do paperwork to arrest somebody. Failure to comply. failure to comply with your order to provide identification. Absolutely. Were you agitated when you approached Mr. Gray? No. Right. So, at what point did you become agitated? When he refused to identify himself. So, like right off the bat, he refused that. You asked him for identification. He denied. You became identitated at that point. Is that what the video states? Yes. Would you like to see it? I mean, we can go back. It's in the first 10 seconds. That's fine. Was that the point at which you became agitated or started getting agitated? No. So, what point was that? Did you not? I don't know. Minutes, seconds. You ever been sued before? No. One of the news articles uh about this event said that the police department or the city or both, I don't know, was conducting an internal investigation. Were you part of that internal investigation? I have no idea. I don't watch this. That's not what I asked, M. Sergeant Joffrey. Were you part of an internal investigation? As far as I know, no. Did anyone from the police department or the city come and interview you about what had happened? No. Did anyone provide you with uh the results of an internal investigation? No. Did you receive any sort of counseling or discipline as a result of this event with Mr. Gray? Why? What? No. Why did you tell him he had to leave? Unsure. Uh, agitated, aggravated. You said that you told him to leave because you were agitated, aggravated. Is that I didn't tell him to leave because of that reason. So, why did you tell him to leave? I'm not sure. Well, how can you be sure it wasn't because you're agitated and aggravated? Those are your words. Mhm. If you're not sure why, who knows? You don't know. Yeah. And you were the speaker. You were the one the supervisor in charge.