you as chief of police have made public statements confirming that transparency is important right yes have you retained all of your communication since becoming chief of police object to form Foundation no have any of your communication records between yourself and mayor Keller have been retained no can you explain why not if we they're no different than conversations and it's your ention conversations are not subject to a unless it it's going to result in some kind of directive or some kind of order that's coming out from the police department what rely what Authority are you relying on for that conclusion object to the form go ahead I don't understand what Authority are you just making up that standard I think it comes back it comes back to transitory information so your contention as the chief of police that when you're having conversations with the mayor that's documented in a text message that that's not subject to EA object to form Foundation go ahead okay I think that when you combine the two you recognize that it's saying non reccords don't need to be retained and and on this one it says at executive level they so there is a conflict between the two am I reading that wrong I I think you are earlier today I released a video showing the deposition of the mayor of Albuquerque New Mexico in which he admitted to tampering with public records more specifically he admitted to not retaining text messages between him and the chief of police for anybody who's ever had a cell phone you know that your phone automatically saves all of your messages and in order for these messages to not be retained you have to intentionally and willfully go in and delete them there are some people who will set their devices to automatically delete messages after 6 months a year two years or whatever it is but even that takes a conscious effort for you to go into your device and tell your device to delete messages at certain points so the point is if text messages are missing they don't just go missings somebody has to physically go in and intentionally remove them delete them so the deposition released earlier today was the mayor of Albuquerque Tim Keller admitting to failing to retain his text messages between himself and chief of police Harold Medina this video is the deposition of Chief Medina on the same matter in this deposition attorney Tom Grover establishes that Chief Medina did attend the training classes that taught him that his text messages between him and the mayor are public record and that they are to be retained indefinitely and as we established in the previous video tampering with public records is a fourth degree felony links to the previous video as well as the statutes on this are in the description below have you guys ever wondered what happened to the legendary Chuck Norris well I recently saw a video he made and I was shocked he's in his 80s now still kicking butt working out and staying active what's even more shocking is that he's stronger can work out longer and still has energy left for his grandkids he did this by making just one change and he says he still feels like he's in his 50s his wife even started doing this one thing and she says she's never felt better she says she feels 10 years younger her body is leaner and she has energy all day Chuck made a video that explains everything make sure you watch it by going to Chuck defense.com sljames or by clicking the link below in this video this will change the way you think about your health once again that's Chuck defense.com sljames and click the link in the description below to watch the video now the legendary Chuck Norris is a whopping 81 years old and yet he has more energy than me he discovered that he can make dramatic changes to his health by simply focusing on three things that sabotage our bodies as we age watch his method by clicking the link in the description below that's Chuck defense.com sljames um as a general principle would you agree with me that transparency of government actions is important OBC to form oh I'm sorry it's okay in fact you you as chief of police have made public statements confirming I'll you what's marked as exhibit six and this is a a quote by you that was screenshotted out of an article um the quote is transparency with the police department ownership of situations by the Albuquerque Police Department as inter term Chief I will take ownership for anything that's occurred that may have been in my spanic control or not in my spanic control correct yes do you recall what you were making that statement in response to no um what was the period of time by which you were the interm chief approximately o October 1st to March 15th do you feel like prior to you becoming the interm chief that the police department had challenges with transparency object to form and Foundation go ahead I think we had challeng a lot of challenges in terms of taking ownership for what uh we should have taken ownership for why would transparency be important for law enforcement in particular uh to give the public as much information so like what type of information what is transparency mean to you like uh one example I would use is an officer involved shooting speaking releasing video when it's appropriate explaining the situation uh another example is like uh when we've had um officers either uh who do something that's criminal and US letting the public know that we've done a criminal in that we've made a criminal referral uh skes is a good example I think if you go back and you look in the media months ago we said we were uh we said that there was uh he was being terminated for the Target case and then he got charged recently by the AG's office so uh there's just numerous examples of when we could be transparent do you think um disclosing officer disciplinary files supports transparency OB to for and Foundation I think that uh it depends and I think this is one of those tough questions is like uh there are times when uh public needs and the magnitude of the situation would warrant the releasing of information in terms of what the final outcome of discipline was but I don't think we just regularly turn over files to the public as a matter of like an affirmative action by the department like what do you mean like on its own action just just proactively releasing off officer discipline records like in what term I I'm sorry I'm not understanding so let me go back to my question is releasing the disciplinary records of officers consistent with Department transparency from your point of view um like what do you mean by disciplinary just the actions itself like somebody was suspended or part of the investigation no the the final the final discipline upon a given officer the final discipline yes you think that's consistent with transparency yes okay and then what about the investigation relating to the basis for that discipline I think there's parts that could be released there's portions it just you have to look at the case in its entirety see what you can release and what you can't okay so it's not a hard no but it's not a blanket yes it's not a blanket yes there are limitations okay um would you so you mentioned releasing officer videos of Officer involved shootings so would you agree with me that transparency means producing to the public records concerning government business objective form go ahead yes in ways I think it's very I think it just it's really hard to answer general questions like I I can't answer a general question you'd have to say like be specific and I could answer it well what what do you think the term government business means government business can mean a lot of different things okay what does it not mean h it doesn't it doesn't mean that every single conversation amongst individuals or every single written document in it's in certain forms are government businesses that should be released and who defines or sets that standard I think that standard is set in our through our IA legislation laws okay the state legislation yes okay have you received any training on on on City public records objective form goad that's okay yes what training have you received we've had briefings from Ethan Watson on uh Records like over the years there's been a lot like how long do you retain a certain record and there's just we the re most recent training we've gotten is like training about what we retain and what we don't um and Ethan Watson is the city clerk yes okay um are you aware of a PowerPoint presentation Ethan Watson or his office gives to city employees regarding records retention yes I believe he's given that to us have you attended that yes hand you exhibit seven and this is the first slide and one slide from um Mr Watson's AA records retention and page 28 is a section that talks about records retention do you recall this slide being um addressed when you were in attendance at his training no so in this slide Mr Watson asserts that for correspondences involving executive level Personnel that being administrative or general management that the the retention period is in fact permanent there is no period by which it lapses did you know that uh yes I'm sorry for the retention of documents that are required to be retained yeah yes and what he identifies are internal and external Communications and related records to or from executive level Personnel including but not limited to directives and not identified in other classifications you see that yes it's a pretty broad application of Records would you agree with that yes is there anything in here that identifies exceptions to the type of communication records that this does not apply to well Ethan Watson has told me is drafts are one exemption okay uh transitory information which is just basic conversation that is and the the dumb Dum way I understand that is what would have been a phone call between two individuals and that if a f and I think the most important thing is and there's some pages in here that missing that I think put a lot of context to this but if a written document is produced as a result of the conversations that the the final product is what needs to be retained what Authority are you relying on that says draft documents um are not subject to these retention considerations objective form that's what I understood Ethan explanation to us was you know if he described those documents as something called non reccords I don't recall from this same PowerPoint I'm going to put a slide in front of you I don't have um additional copies but we'll make them during a break but I want you to look at it this identifies nonrecords that Mr Watson identifies um in his PowerPoint presentation do you see that and is his identification of non- reccords consistent with your understanding yes that you just testified to yeah I think that sampling letters would be drafts right that's his contention is that is that correct sample letters uh extra copies of documents kept solely for convenience of reference right and then you said transitory records right what are transitory records you know I think I spoke about it earlier like uh the Dum Dum version is the conversations basic conversations that are a phone I mean and the best thing to talk about is like I think text messages are a really good example of that is it just an extension of a conversation okay um you would agree with me though that there are different standards as far as what's put forward in Mr Watson's PowerPoint as far as Communications between executive level personnel and other Personnel right object to form go ahead would have to see the rest of his PowerPoint well look at this one slide he's identifying that for executive level Personnel internal and external inter Communications are subject to permanent retention right yeah appear he in that one slide do you have any reason to believe there are slides that are in conflict with this slide well I think 21 what say non- reccords right this says non- records right so I think that when you combine the two you recognize that it's saying non reccords don't need to be retained and and on this one it says that executive Lil they so there is a conflict between the two am I reading that wrong I I think you are because he's just identifying these non records that there's no retention period right okay then I'm good then okay we'll make a copy of this incorporate it one way or the other have you retained all of your communication since becoming chief of police object to form Foundation no have you preserved any of your communication records since becoming chief of police uh yes what records have you retained uh every special order every final draft document is retained have any of your communication records between yourself and mayor Keller have been retained um no can you explain why not if we they're no different than conversations and it's your contention conversations are not subject to unless it it's going to result in some kind of directive or some kind of order that's coming out from the police department what rely what Authority are you relying on for that conclusion object to the form go ahead I don't understand what Authority are you just making up that standard or I think it comes back it comes back to transitory information so your contention as the chief of police that when you're having conversations with the mayor that's documented in a text message that that's not subject to IA object to form Foundation go ahead okay but you would agree that memos and Report uh special orders those are all public records correct yes we you're just admitting that there's a disagreement as to whether or not transitory records such as a text message between you and the mayor are not public records yes okay a work cell phone yes uh um what is the phone number 505 401 0787 and do you have a personal cell phone number yes are the last four digits of that number 9657 yes and you've testified earlier that you've exchanged text messages with Tim color is that right yes how often do you think you exchange text messages with them sometimes we exchange a text here daily I have a weekly meeting so we just don't sit and text each other I have two weekly meetings with him but do you frequently like on a weekly basis exchange text mess I would say during the course of a week he'll ask me questions but weekly is a fair characterization guys I don't know I'm conflicted I don't know if this chief of police is really this stupid or if he's just protect ending but at any rate if you or I committed a fourth degree felony I don't think the government would care at all whether we committed it out of ignorance or whether we did it intentionally and maliciously I I think that would be completely irrelevant if you or I committed a felony