And welcome to Facts or Frauds. All right, we are on the record in 2024 TR 617. State of Kansas versus Abel Estrada Jr. Please announce appearances. The Kansas Bar Association attorney Paul Dean. Richard Paul on behalf of Mr. Estrada who appears by his name in a separate location and counsel. And how does he wish to proceed today? Judge, I need to withdraw from this case. Your Honor, Mr. Estrada has filed pro se, I do believe. Uh well, I know it was pro se filing. Um Well, I do notice I I do notice he's taken a number of filings in his own right without going through counsel. Mr. Estrada, you come back to my recollection we've met in city court, correct? And now we're this is that tag and suspended license. No. No, it's the tag issue, Your Honor. It's the tag, Your Honor. All right. I believe Mr. Paul's requesting a withdrawal based upon the essentially sovereign type citizen claim by filed by Mr. Abel. Well, that's Mr. Estrada. Excuse me. And also there's been a total breakdown in communications, Judge. He files his own motions. I can I cannot represent him. He He's Okay. All right, Mr. Estrada, you were appointed an attorney. Apparently at one point wanted one or maybe we gave you one and you didn't want one. No, that's not it. Excuse me? I'm sorry, that's not it. Uh he's not uh Richard Paul is not uh seeking my interest and he he told I I put everything in the affidavit. I um he's not representing me. He's not He's actually judging me before uh before he's judging me before I even go into court. He's not listening to my paperwork. So, he decided he doesn't want to represent me. So, I still need to be represented. Well, that's a Mr. Paul, you're allowed to be to withdraw. Thanks. You're welcome. Is this the the last case you have on the docket? Uh until 11, Judge. I'm at 11, so I'm just going to mute myself and That'd be fine. All right. Now, I think you are going to have the same problem with any other attorney that you had with Mr. Paul. Mr. Paul, from this court's experience over the years, is a very competent, diligent attorney. Now, sometimes attorneys have to tell you their opinion of what's going to happen. And you may or may not agree with their opinion, but you do still want an attorney. I do. I do need an attorney cuz I don't know how to defend myself with this court. And and also um I have a threat of the communications that you can see it. And uh I am not I'm not getting represented correctly. I am I'm I'm sure he's a competent uh attorney, but he's I I I proceeded to give all my information, all all my laws, and uh he doesn't Your laws? The the laws, the Constitution. Your Honor, what So, Your Honor, could I say something, please? Um Mr. uh Estrada, every attorney who the court can appoint to represent you, one, I don't want to see, and I'm sure the judge is the same way. I don't want to see any kind of communication thread between yourself and Mr. Paul because there could be confidential Well, I'm sure there's confidential and privileged information within that, and you shouldn't be disclosing that to me. That's between you and any attorney you so choose to to to have represent you. But I believe most attorneys or all attorneys that the court has available to appoint to you, um they are sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States and the state of Kansas and not what you filed. That's That's the attorneys didn't go to your law school, um which is kind of what you've set forth. So, that's the issue the court's talking about when you're claiming sovereign citizen. We don't have an attorney who's I guess registered to under your rules and laws as you see them. So, that's the problem you're going to be running into as far as the attorneys the court has to appoint to you. If I said that correctly, Your Honor. Thank you, Mr. Dean. I'd like to say that I'm not a sovereign citizen, I'm just an American. And uh um I'm just I'm just being constitutional and I'm not doing anything. I'm not breaking any law. Um So, Sir, you you said you the attorney wouldn't accept your laws or follow your laws. No, that's not what I said. I said that did you say? Because I thought you said you were trying to train him on the laws in essence. No, I don't. I'm I'm just presenting the law to him and he doesn't even read my my documents that I presented, which is the law. Did you go to law school? No, ma'am. He did, you know that. Yes, for I understand, but he's not being constitutional. That's what I'm saying. But you didn't go to law school, sir. Are you sure you know what being constitutional involves? I mean, we all can read the Constitution and and understand, yes, but there's a lot of a lot involved in in interpreting that. Do you understand? I I understand what you're saying, ma'am. The All I'm saying is that he's using case law, not constitutional law. And he didn't see all my paperwork, he just ignored it. He just blew through it. And then gave me the wrong dates. I presented uh all the documents and and uh he didn't even look at it and ignored the paperwork. All right. And let me ask you this, you are wanting a trial on this illegal display of a license plate or failure to display, right? Uh Well, no. I I like to I like to address I'd like to first if if possible if we can dis uh a motion to dismiss with a street address going to do that today. All right, I'm going to one more time appoint you an attorney. Your Honor, I would Could I make a request to the court on this matter? Sure. This case carries a maximum sentence of 30 days. Doesn't even have an eligibility or requirement that he be court uh provided an attorney. Well, Um I I'm just There's potential jail time. I would like to have a if court wants I understand if court wants to appoint an attorney, absolutely. Don't dispute that. But under the circumstances of the defense that's wanted to be presented, I would ask the court to appoint somebody. I get Mr. McClendon's still available. Um That's just what I was thinking. He's here in the courtroom. we set this next hearing give sufficient time, uh perhaps 60 days, perhaps longer, uh and we just have it set for a bench trial. Mr. And if he doesn't want to cooperate with that attorney, the state would be asking for the court to proceed to trial uh whether or not he can get along with the second one or not. Well, it seems we're on the same page of thinking, counsel. Uh Mr. McClendon is in the waiting room. Mr. McClendon, I can bring him in. Bring him in. You're in Howard, he's got an office here in Eureka. Uh Mr. Estrada, please in Wichita, you're on. I thought Mr. Did you tell me you were in Howard? I'm in Howard. Oh, my mistake. I might have been on one of the notary stamps. You Were you in city court the night that uh Mr. Estrada, the gentleman under Motorola, had the tag violation? Yes, Judge. Um He wanted me to his case briefly and then uh Mr. Watson and I had a discussion and figured it would be more proper for a district court case. Will you take the appointment if I give him back to you? I guess, Judge. All right. So, you two have already met Mr. Estrada, right? The good news was he got it dismissed for you in city court, but the bad news is for you it's back in district court. All right, so I don't Do you agree, Mr. McClendon, that we ought to just set it for bench trial or maybe Or do you What do you want to bench trial, Judge. I'm familiar enough with the case. Um Okay. He has filed some pro se motions. Uh okay, Missy, give me a trial date, please. We can resolve those motions at trial, Your Honor. Sure. I just want to let Mr. McLendon know. How about January 3rd at 11:00? January 3rd at 11:00, does that work? Um, yeah, it should be fine. Uh do you want to do that in person or I guess on Zoom probably? Well, generally we do them on Zoom now if there's some special reason not to, I would hear the argument, but at this time I'm going to stand it for Zoom. That's fine, Judge. All right. Thank you, Mr. McLendon. I appreciate your willingness to do that. Mr. Estrada, I will continue, you're not on bond, but I will continue the order that you reappear for bench trial January 3rd at 11:00. And I trust you have Mr. McLendon's contact information and he has yours from your setting appointment. Yes. You do? All right, thank you. If there's nothing further, we will be in recess on this matter and you are excused. You can't fix stupid. And thanks for hanging out with us on Facts or Frauds. 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