trying to get out she was gonna die how did you know I think they had two optional John's father is already serving life in prison for the girl's death and on Wednesday her mother heard her fate in the Kent County courtroom this video contains the interview of a woman who allowed her infant daughter to starve to death on August 2nd 2018 the police knew they needed to brace themselves to deal with the death of a child but nothing prepared them for what they found inside the filthy home of Seth Welsh and Tatiana fusari Mary Welsh the 10 month old daughter of the couple was lying in her crib the child was barely eight pounds and so thin that not only were her bones protruding but the outline of her intestines was visible against her stomach an autopsy revealed that Mary had not been fed for days and had been slowly starving to death for an undetermined period of time I'm sorry for your loss I know that uh the last thing you want to be doing is this we haven't spoke yet I know you've already spoken with Jason uh my name is Jason as well um but some of the same stuff that all right now some of the same stuff that he's already talked about I wasn't there when you guys folks so I'd like to go over some of that um obviously he's already advised of your constitutional rights officer scene you still remember those rights that's um yep no problem uh do you want me to read them to you again or you're still good to go all right like I told you you're not under a rush but because you're in this buying facility would you like to just remind you of those so um really what I kind of just like to do is just to get a better understanding of how we are here today and kind of go back a few years even just to get to know you and your family a little bit so do you go by tantiana or do you have a nickname Tatiana okay how many children do you have sorry bye three three okay yep right yeah okay how old is your oldest four yeah and you know so um after seeing there I was told that verbal is that true that he doesn't or he's very verbal he's very verbal oh I I don't know something and you know how it gets mixed uh you whisper one person's ears as it goes down the chain maybe he was just being shy yeah he did some high-fiving for me but um he knows lots of words he's just um sometimes big sister can be a little dominating and probably all the commotion probably really made him shy so maybe they're just saying he was non-verbal right now um medical issue anything like that okay okay and before if she has any kind of daycare does she go to she have preschool um definitely a new degree in early childhood being at home with the farm I can at least give them an initial education yeah absolutely so have you okay I can what kind of stuff she is fluent in her bed her number is at least up to 20 20. well sorry gives the impression that she has invested a lot of care and effort into her older children which is inconsistent with the level of neglect that the infant Mary experienced her writing she uses a little issue with the numbers they get a little backwards but okay she knows how to spell where it's like hi cat dog she knows the list that starts with e she's trying to do better than Jason the high in the cat and dog park um so does um a doctor that she sees does she have a primary doctor not anymore it's great and everything we just uh we only go with there's an issue in there just hasn't been well good when okay and what was that for a checkup do you know what Clinic he's with own practice I know it's in Rockford you remember wearing Rockford that's probably so she she was there for her two-year checkup was she ever there prior to the Future checkup yeah foreign no we we've had her okay so so prior to the 18 month check up shoes with a different doctor yes do your daughter confusion called PBS on us because we were your occasions to be with him um her preliminary vaccination so where Metro Byron and then so from there off the top of your head you remember yeah everyone want loaded to it I know it's a while and so it's enough for her to get it was we were um yeah early enough for her to get her back um with it and then afterwards literally we just fill our research research didn't feel the need to do it anymore Dr William Sherry gracious with us and understanding and yeah you actually don't have to do that at all after a bad experience at the hospital with one of their children Seth Welch fusari's husband refused to allow the children to be seen by doctors at all if you haven't already I highly recommend visiting my patreon page for exclusive and ad-free videos including the intense interrogation of an officer involved in a routine traffic stop gone wrong listen to the shocking events that unfold as an officer crosses the line and employs excessive force this case offers a glimpse into the unsettling reality of when the actions of good people become entangled in tragic circumstances watch this video and explore many more at patreon.com strangers stories Plus okay and so at what Vision obviously it was kind of last visit is when he recommended the helmet head shaping but so there was never any concern about the shape of her head from zero to 18 months no and that's why it was such a concern for us as to why you would just bring this up out of out of nowhere and so what was the problem with the shape of her head according to hell I thought it was it was off it was just not circular and I mean I wasn't offended I was just taken aback and then um my uh because I found out that they it's commission based for these products that they try and push so um we don't know specifically this is here today sure but we think trying to push the helmet it was a three thousand dollar helmet helmet for the in-called GPS and so that we were being in a glass Bowlers or something out there okay and uh so was it the first time he ever pushed the home it was already around the 18 month that's the percentage okay unless he spoke to Chef otherwise but I doubt it I've never heard of a head shaping helmet I don't have you ever seen young children it looks like um some children with Down Syndrome here and it's big and crazy I have seen that I didn't maybe I have yeah it looks quite invasive and I just heavy traffic problems right right right yeah um the two-year checkup after that we haven't needed a house with shape of her head I wonder so that that worked out just was okay how does that work was that was that a choice was that like um what do they call it like a midwife or something okay so how does that work when you choose to have first off I mean why did you go from being from her in a hospital and some transformation here where you said we want to do um um yeah being at the hospital was dreaming because they uh with me after she was born they wanted her out of the room they wanted us there for three days um because uh apparently I pushed out a lot more fluid than they were expecting so she coughed I'm like oh we need to keep her protecting and then um I don't know because there's a theory yachty out of it yeah you never know though right exactly so I just think ing don't worry you can rest oh my baby you don't even have like Wick come in and give me information newborn portraits right right right so we just didn't want so that just turned you off to the and having a home birth right after uh I birth that's when that's right bonus right on the couch so so how does the Midwife work is that through a hospital to record how do you reach how does this how does this work Google oh okay I just searched on midwives in the area or I'll show their Facebook groups like homework um in West Michigan Cedar Springs um home birthing and I just asked a lot of different women for advice while there are many people who are trained and skilled enough to provide safe home births there are some that have no credentials or experience and could cause great harm a Google search is not the best way to search for something of this nature and given fusari and Welch's General treatment of their children it is doubtful that they did much research about the person they chose so now what is a what what is a midwife is it someone that knows what they're doing or could I be a midwife um in training with her grandmother well that's all right who's been training with her grandmother so I trusted genealogy absolutely yes all three of her kids that are better for about 40 years so when a midwife becomes involved in your pregnancy how early on do they become involved as earlier as late as you'd like so what okay right yeah and this wasn't your first child and you weren't concerned and then working on a farm I mean I didn't I barely gained weight bleeding all the time like it wasn't a necessity and we went to see her to get um ultrasound and but did she know you were coming does she know like so when did you did you conquer just about the two months or did you like set it up like hey I'm gonna be contacting you in a couple months no it was said hi are you available to streaming I know you've actually busy with other clients but I'm gonna give birth soon so what do they do when they come what's their first step I have appointments at her house every two weeks depending on the time of uh how far along I am um so I do a full physical exam and all that stuff for glucose levels and then um blood pressure weight height she'll measure from the top of she'll make all the way to the bottom well um check we didn't check what oh we'll do ultrasound to see what a baby is sex of the baby um she's also legally supposed to send me to a hospital or doctor if there are any complications perfect so everything was fine yeah and did does or no and that's how we see it I think I'm sure yeah it's it's got to be healthier so um from what I get at some point you guys started doing your own research on vaccinations and you've chosen we're not doing the vaccinations uh route so um because but you're not what what what would you to go to the doctor absolutely okay oh yeah if there was a problem of course yeah okay yeah well I don't know it was random information um any problems any developmental problems medical problems anything that concerns you no never yeah the worst is probably him picking at his mosquito bites is literally the extent any type of issue technically or physically I mean well um we took them until they're about 16 months before they started walking and they didn't even want they just ran so how how long yes right it's only about 22 inches shorter than we are now I have to include myself here a little a little more vertically challenged than I am it was heavier and shorter yeah yeah yeah he's not a chubby kid though he's he's about 20 ounces for the pound um yeah that's right get underwear yeah he's happy go lucky so um and so by starting so far back in the timeline with their questions the detectives have successfully allowed fusari to distance herself enough from the current situation that she has forgotten to be upset she is talkative and in this state she is more likely to reveal things before she thinks about what she is saying so as um I don't I don't know about English is John in his height weight category either too fat or they're not and that also prompted a CPS visit is that yes with the same doctor about the helmet okay he referred to the CPS how many times it was one for supplies unaware so yeah so that was like sure absolutely yeah we would expect that right so what was it so was it the same time that the helmet yes okay so it was kind of like a couple issues on the same referral they thought they were just coming for the helmet clarified for us fish documentation here says that she's fine sure I don't know what he's telling you right okay sounds pretty frustrating very so uh three months ago she weighed 46 Pounds and about how tall is or was she three months at all oh you know I don't I forgot uh yeah sorry I wouldn't know how to tell my kids out I use this I thought you a ball let's say if she were standing here what's just your ballpark or you think she'd say fan to you or she you probably know where she comes to your body yeah me tanding her head is right right up to here I mean she sits I'm just like chest level yes and how tall are you fasari and Welsh had Child Services investigating multiple times but fusari brushes off each incident as if each one was an overreaction so she's actually pretty tall she is isn't she I mean my father-in-law picked something where on you he's not just level so just over the waist okay tall enough for great hugs you betcha so he is at two that's actually pretty tall two that's actually quite tall too yeah he's gonna be a sprouting kid too though um so now we're gonna get into a more difficult subject and then we're here here as as well which obviously you're going to want to talk about air but it'll probably be difficult today okay was he excited about that yeah well is it really good for him wait or you are a few minutes early however we want to word it right sure all right two minutes late it's set delivered here so did Seth know what to do with the court get it off or he'll leave a little so when you gave you battle feed breast feed pump um so when you gave birth yeah yeah okay where did you work at the theater so when you were working at Cedar Meyer while you're at work did you leave work to breastfeed or did you leave pumped bottles at home for chef so how do you do that when you when you set up your pump I mean I know how the pump works but is that something you refrigerate something you freeze something you do fresh every day what about so how's that work uh it depends on my shift but usually it's it's I pump fresh every day and I will leave one out on the counter reach it on the fridge and then there will be film in the freezer so if he does run out during the day there's some extra in the freezer on the stage where I'm just part of my language that's a little more swollen than yeah right yeah so when you left some so you would leave one bottle on the counter so that could be room temperature and then you put how many typically in the fridge how about three okay and then how many did you typically have on tap in the freezer oh wait and so those are just um in the bottle nipple inverted okay pouch oh like a oh and that gets stuffed down into a bottle no the pouch gets put into a a pot and then you um with not boiling water but warm enough water should defrost and then you pour it into a bottle oh I gotcha and then let it cook it and so you would keep about 12 of those in the freezer yeah so how long do the ones in the freezer stay good okay I'll show you so do you do you rotate the freezer ones out to the fridge so you can put some fresh ones in the freezer it depends like if we were going to my in-law's house in Grand Haven then I would bring the freezer lunch with me oh it's a gift yeah to use some of those milk and other Foods were available and Mary could have been fed if they had chosen to do so the food was deliberately withheld so do you date the ones that are in the freezer yeah okay brush formula or same story I was able to stay home and do farmers markets fresh from The Source most most did you still leave some in the freezer I didn't need to but what about what if so shop did feed and I I should note that when I went back to work after already oh she was so in about a month she was already she was going to start solid food so I would have um a frozen solid food of like a fresh milk mixed with a creamed spinach and peas and ice trays and then you can defrost that even in the Ziploc bag in the microwave so was was at four months was she was she developing well was she getting to the uh roly-poly how did your kids develop every child is different I know that but they all were very engaging active yeah all of them actually okay um the only thing they were laid on was uh walking okay so would you say like chubby cheeks and or she always thinner always yeah nothing chunky about her just but but nothing concerning either no no so she was still sitting into the size diapers yeah absolutely so when because I I mean I've got kids too but I probably much like shots I didn't do most of the diaper shopping okay I know there's like months like there's the zero the infant or the top newborn and then it goes up one two three so that's based on months right so it'll say like zero three months or something like that or did you say three to six months is it not like that anymore um it's usually five still newborn so when she was three to six was she wearing size one three to six she was very she was good with her diapers okay so although even though she was petite she was still growing into the appropriate the age appropriate diapers yeah she's very tall okay and even her even her clothes like her two T's and fourteen toddler stuff was she age appropriate with the sizes that she was growing yeah we in fact had to get larger because she so long oh um but they weren't so bad that they were falling off from her no not until um actually not at all she finally started to fit them fully when she was maybe a year okay yeah fusari cannot be telling the truth because as underweight as Mary was near the end of her life a diaper for that age group would not have stayed around her waist she was eight pounds which would have put her in newborn diapers he turned into a chunkerfield and so was he still age-appropriate or did he kind of go a age or two over where he should there's a tad over okay um not in the diaper sense um but uh I mean right now he's wearing three to four tea diapers so that's because they had to pull up one yeah we're trying to encourage potty training you're all good um but uh it's closed right now our 3T well so he is over then yeah yeah but he's but he's gonna be three soon and I just don't want him when he put his arms up at his belly out so don't plus you want to buy him one she wanted to last more than a week or at that age they're just sprouting out so so you didn't work when did you go back to work oh about ish February of this past year of this year or 17. this is 2018 yeah so this is so February sorry sorry so um so in October so from uh so October 23rd to November 23rd one to December to January so basically the first four full months she was fresh from The Source breast side as well okay okay and same story if you went somewhere she went with you Seth never had to feed her no so for four months we never fed her no okay not that he could but why yeah if you're right there yeah so February 17th you would like to work why did you come back to work City blunt just to support the farm yeah um give us some startup money because you know you guys used to do fruits Farm produce stand and stuff was saying that just didn't really take off yeah so now I was trying to do a U-Pick strawberry thing and that would be from six to three oh yeah it was cool it's exhausting yeah and having to manage the children and then interact you pick strawberries if you're took off phenomenally and we just we're going to stand that way so now is the farm whose passion is that it started out as fast I thought I was born in Brooklyn New York exciting not your passion then so is it your passion now absolutely so this is something that that Seth wanted and then you brew the love or okay once I work at McDonald's right right so so then so February 17 rolls around and and this months old how do you manage feeding them refrigerate bottle okay because I was only doing four hour shift for the time so I would do um I would leave one bottle out and then one bottle in the fridge and I would the day and then put her down to bed before I left and I was at seven o'clock all right so you your shift was seven to eleven seven PM so it was on a typical day what time in the morning would be your first feeding with her uh at that time at that time um 85 330 or 3 30 and then so at 3 30 she would wake up and we should do a full feeding yes although she would um fall asleep which I'd wake her up oh yeah and when you now typically speaking at 3 30 when you woke her up would she need a diaper change as well no Okay so because she was up at midnight before that eating so so the last feeding for the night would be mid well let's just start at 3 30 that would give us a good time frame so at 3 30 there'll be a full feeding and our diaper was fine no no pee no poop she's good yeah so then when would be the next meeting and imagine I would change her and will that be another full feeding yeah and when you changed her then it would be due to urine Mitch will be up too and then just to be awake with the kids and people have breakfast while Mary's either eating or feeding and have a bouncy chair looking around and then um so at four months she could sit in her bouncy chair and look around and yeah okay she would always be able to hold her head up on her own but um it was a little rocker chair not a bouncy chair I'm sorry so she would lean back in it and put batteries in it and it rocks oh yes yeah so the next feeding uh we have a five to six time frame the next heating is would have been when I'm about [Music] yeah she would feed every two hours on average another four every feeding was a full feeding one yeah yeah if Mary was eating as much as fusari claims and still losing weight she should have seen a doctor immediately to check for an underlying medical condition unless they did not want the child to get better and age nine houses a diaper um thing on the day or um how much she ate I would change her poop three times a day that I made note of so um it's hard to give you specifics on an actual day but if she didn't poop then the next time there would be a poop but it was always one in the afternoon so either that either this chain this seating or the next one is typically a provider yes and the next meeting was I know he told me but I'm not good at the math another two hours after that so you're thinking 11 to 11 to noonish because I know she'd eat when the kids would have lunch and she'd be eating again so I can say that either the eight to nine or the noonish feeding was a poopy diaper yeah and it was not I mean she do shallots yet there wasn't solid poop no and then you said afternoonish was uh would you say two a two around two the kids would have theirs have theirs um how about the diaper situation on that one it's just always pee so every time I got her up to um to feed her during the day there's always tea so every every daytime feeding had a wet diaper yes holy Smoky yeah well she's eating a lot yeah right so then five-ish five or six or is this little or they're going to be one more feeding before you went to work yeah so around five and the kids would have dinner okay because I put the kids down for bed before I left also and this was in the winter so that it was darker outside they would sleep earlier in the day um so I'd feed everyone and then that's bad for the night what should be about 6 30 because then I'd have to get ready for work 6 30 kids will go to bed and there'd be a bottle on the counter and it'd be one in the fridge just in case but first while the kids were eating there yeah which which would you put her to bed would she be asleep and you put her to bed yeah okay so you would feed her to sleep okay and they were fun so um and she would sleep until maybe midnight because that wouldn't even sometimes need a bottle so if you're already home then you'd use the bottle yeah yeah but if you weren't home so I could use a bottle but what would you do with the one in the fridge then I use it the next morning okay yeah 3 30 um when she would get up again and it was 3 30 Clockwork she's she knew I would sleep on the couch because I was just you know it should be up at 3 30. so so let me just go over this um to see if if I've got it right and so actually I'll start with um I'll start with midnight okay so typically either right before you got home or about the time you got home there was extra meeting yeah no was there was it always you or did sometimes feed her prior to you being home it was always me okay I just I chose to and he was very kind about it you could use your rest yeah really Justin didn't even need those bottles that were left bearing because he he did okay the stories between fusari and Welch do not match up fusari indicates that the baby was fed by Seth quite often but he claims that he rarely had to feed her because either fusari did it herself or Mary would be fussy and refuse the food grind up um you know organic vegetables breast milk yeah and he would see that to her along with some oatmeal okay um so before we get into that let me just first make this or this timeline's all right okay so at midnight you was married at 3 30 in the morning she would wake you up crying and you'd get up and you'd feed her again her diaper was fine because at midnight you changed her diaper yeah it was probably was that poopy she's sleeping for four hours before that yeah so then at 3 30 a full feeding diapers fine 5 a.m full feeding probably a wet diaper eight to nine full feeding maybe a poopy diaper noonish full seating if the other diaper wasn't poopy this one was yeah um two to three full feeding wet diaper 6 30 just prior to you going to work you'd see them lay her in bed and then you're off to work and then you'd be home by midnight we'd start to Ping over again yeah okay so now you said those habits changed at some point that's six months so at six months did your hours change is that why these habits changed or did they change because we're a combination of both um it could have been a combination of both I know because she was growing encouraging the solid food shouldn't be more late so when she was growing so now at six months was she wearing six tea was she wearing age-appropriate size diapers lengthwise yes but she wasn't feeling like and how would how do you feel about weight size was she okay or she I was a tad concern but then I remembered sure and I remembered Elizabeth and how to teach she was then and how she would fill in lengthwise but not with life until she was about a year so what what was your tab concerned about what was that was she just not gaining enough weight or was that the concern it was possibly it was just uh oh she's so small and I was like yeah she was premature she's compete he's alone yeah also I forget like all these babies are forming with it and there's nothing against formula relationship I just need to do it but the formula is what chunks of the day sure sure so then I got it out of it out of my house so you had a little bit of a concern due to her weight but not her length but you weren't overly concerned you got it out of your head because you realize that she's fine yeah I was seeing gosh well we all can do that as with adults babies can vary in body shape although at that age the difference is slight as emaciated as Mary was would be cause for alarm for any parent who cared about the well-being of their child so as other than a little bit underweight you considered her to be appropriate size she was doing real well developmentally yeah she was already putting her hands on the floor and looking around we have a play mat and we call it will you give her tummy time so especially on days where we'll just be playing all day tummy time she'll be on the her stomach and she'll have her head up looking around watching the other kids play or have table times as related to their schoolwork um the cast and cuddle with marriage is adorable um she'd roll over on her back and there's like a little um balcony um the car looks like a rainbow but it's over the head of the baby and she can oh I don't know if anything goes yeah this is another difference between fusari's statement and Welch's he said that Mary would often sleep and was a fairly quiet child but fusari describes her as active in reality Mary would not have the strength or energy to pull herself up okay so you felt that she was developing good at that point and you're educated in this area so if there's anyone that should know it would be you I mean I'd be better than us two uh I'd like to thank the paid for all that education it should help right so because you're educated in early childhood development so and where's that education through uh it started out at City College of New York okay and I created transferred to Grand Rapids Community College okay so then all right so now now we're into the sixth month and your hours change to what three o'clock until 11 o'clock in the evening and so I know this is boring but let's go over the new day schedule now because of the change of hours and the change at six months have you done a diet change fruit mashed up fruit spinach um we got organic carrots from the store um the fruits were blueberries strawberries apples um raspberries so when you mix it in with breast milk explain what is what do you mean by that oh so I would um I would pump I would pump your milk in a bottle and then I would we have a juicer or a blender so I would um blend the vegetables so for example a tree spinach okay I blend the spinach in there with a little water and then I pour the breast milk in there just so it was um easy for her to like oatmeal so then she eat it with a Spooner I have a bottle okay it was salad enough for either feather eyes to feed her with the food so now at six months old was she using a bottle at all anymore no she didn't need to she nursing she was still a nurse yeah okay so there's a lot to do with this but let's talk about I'm let's go over like the daily routine of that of Nursing and feeding so if we would say that the day starts at midnight okay or no however she was okay so you what in the morning time what would be your first feeding uh between seven and eight because the kids would wake up at that time as well and I think they will era so between seven and eight she would awake and you would be you would I would nurture that nurse it's like give the kids their breakfast and then I'd sit down and probably a little bit longer now maybe yes oh yeah yeah she would she would sit there and chug and they would take both both breaths to okay fill her up and that feeling was it just breast milk in the morning and how about diaper um in the morning oh yes because she slept all night it was typically a poop okay but um if not it'd be a p of course but it was most likely a poop and then when was the next feeding after the seven o'clock one she still she does got the next feeding after that so let's say it was seven to eight the first one will do 11. and that's when it was solid foods like start with the nurse ring and then I'd give her salad food after that so the the solid smoothie you just explained yeah okay and it would be vegetable first and then we'd give her fruit because if she had a fruit she doesn't eat the vegetables so the veggies were mixed with breast milk and the fruit was not the fruit was just the Smoothie okay why did you mix the veggies with the breast milk what was the purpose I don't I'm just curious the veggie gets a little gritty oh sure where the breast milk it helps you go down here not so chunky yeah how much of that would she typically eat ing ounces okay each one are combined of each one and that was that was our 40 minutes of Nursing if Mary was being fed that quantity of food as frequently as fusari said then she would have been several pounds heavier oh so you would nurse her at 11 too yes I know sure every WebMD year but actually the first thing you do you do is feed her the veggie smoothie with breast milk then you'd feed her the fruit smoothie with just a little bit of water blended with her and just fruit it depends on the fruit if it was Apple I'd have to do water with it strawberries and need it it's like a strawberry apple and you need it just found it in in the in the vegetables was four to six ounces and the fruit was supposed to sausages and um so then after that what was it what would be the next feeling another two or three hours after that okay so it's one she asked for it really okay so like sometimes it would be because we'd be outside so um we'd be a weeding or just playing did she come out with you when you're outside yeah okay she loves what does she do okay yeah I'm hungry so but you would have to say that I and I know that obviously that none of us eat lunch exact same time every day but so one to two p.m you're feeding her again yeah and that consisted of the same thing nursing for a half hour uh yes it yes nursing first and sometimes I wouldn't do it that long just because we have work to do outside so I nurse for a little bit just to um a piece here so she'd stop crying and then I could her in her high chair and feed her um her food so on that one to two you might have cut back to nursing a little bit Yeah okay and she'd have um the same amount of salad but that would be enough for her yeah four to six of each then as well yes and then I put her down for a nap yeah and so let me back up at the um 11 o'clock feeding well at the seven to eight I'm sorry at 11 o'clock feeding was our diaper change yeah and those rats because I know the seven o'clock when we had a usual poopy diaper no it was just urine okay she would poop again after her nap so the one that oh after the nap so the one to two was a diaper change yes just urine okay okay and then after that feeding so nap was about when to win because she hasn't napped for the day it'd probably be out three to four hours so maybe let's just say whatever two to five two to six actually yeah because then she'd get up and be dinner time for her and the kids and for Mom and Dad so she was good enough so was she usually up by five six o'clock something from there okay and then when she woke up she woke up hungry right away yeah I mean I assumed because she would latch on quickly if she wasn't so if she woke up you would be feeding her five six o'clock afterwards I changed her poop all right let's change poopy diaper all right now at this point are you getting a little more solid poopy diapers you're still running yeah there's more salad because it's a chunkier food all right and so and So based in your opinion of what you're seeing in her diaper she's digesting her food and everything if it was still running I'd be concerned the color comes out fine I mean it's it's brown that's right more solid good color so um woke up hungry so that's a nursing yeah is that a full or do it we're cutting that one back well too or um for dinner for dinner yeah I would um cut it back a little too because I also have to get dinner ready for everyone now she like nourishes a little bit tell the kids to clear the table um help Dad set the table and then they're sure while they were doing that and then we'd have dinner so that nursing would be how long ish maybe like 20 minutes just enough to a future yeah and then she'd have um maybe an ounce in solid food so five to seven roughly sure especially because I didn't nurse her as much again except five to seven vegetables five seven fruit yes after years from variety all right and so that is the sixth business the five to six time frame so where do we go from there uh after everyone's eating the kids clear the table and they either like helped out of dishes or create a counter or put the food away in the containers meanwhile um rocker just watching everyone or or striped Kitty we have three kittens and they were born the 19th of October on the 23rd so that's weird yeah yeah so the striped one likes the cuddle with Marion Marion the detectives allow fusari to keep describing Mary's activities knowing full well that nothing she is saying matches the forensics roster and fall asleep she wouldn't usually fall asleep there's just so much going on with the kids they should just watching micro noises and so obviously the same with all of us with the pictures and stuff um so like you have pictures of Mary like in her rock or sitting upright yeah and um are those on your phone on a camera on a Google Drive okay we didn't grab that though right you you didn't take that okay he says a camera right yeah yeah that's on the rocker everyone else is cleaning up the you know doing our normal nightly routines so then what's next so then um she said she usually has adventurous date yeah so uh I may be around seven ish seven to eight always depends obviously so let's try and give you a broad answer I put her down for a batch like nurture maybe 10 minutes just to put her to sleep so if I put her straight to bed without Nursery she'll get a little fussy so I just put her I nurture burp her and then check just make sure some she changed she's dry please you're down and then I close your door and then the kids will have their bath and so then that takes us again then back to um 7 A.M yeah and we set the day over yeah that was quite a blessing for me and has that routine ever changed or has that the routine that you were still on remain consistent until she started going through her roach bird which has been recently where she um actually now that I think about it a few weeks after that she was going through her six-month group okay and she would sleep so much and my so he says growth spurt did she get much longer so she got chubbier energy fit okay and she was feeling into her clothes better I mean I was exactly Etc So when you say our cheeks got chubbier would you then describe her cheeks if you were to look at it as baby and say ah I actually got chubby cheeks or just chubbier than they once were and she got longer and so she was born at 20 inches what did you I don't know if you measure or not but what would be your ballpark is what she sprouted out to maybe another two inches so was that the first time she grew no there was a three-month period but that was just she was an infant she was sleeping a lot anyway and it wasn't very noticeable but because she was barely for things in the day at this point and sleeping through the night we noticed that she was sleeping a lot longer during the day waking up later and she took longer so just it's great yeah so when you would you do you do you weigh and measure your kids on a regular basis for the kids and so then after the three-month checkup do you guys have a routine that you do to check up on the kids or just as needed if they're sick if they're not sick it's as needed I could have um although uh I did have a weight blanket and it was um I had a little scale and they were like grommets on the end of the blanket that you hook onto the scale what's the most she ever had her wine that you can recall 12 pounds 14 14 pounds it was a while ago because the cat got to it okay so uh she weighed 14 pounds at about what age six months and that was during before or after this day oh so even family members tried to tell fusari and Welch that there wasn't something right about Mary's white but the couple refused to listen 14 pounds before the growth spurt so you would what as a man what would you get her weight that she that she would gained there would be another three three four pounds so she's not even I'm just go to and yeah I'm asking the gas things that you don't know why I'm families here nor there but I'm just wanting to know just the kind of ballpark as of what you think at least um so you would guess her to weigh 16 pounds of inclusion of her growth spurt yeah she only felt like it and um so you say she started sleeping more just after this routine started yeah and that was only for about a week and then she actually ended her growth shirt and then went back to her regular routine she slept more for one week and when you say she slept more for one week what do you mean by that she slept from one to one uh for example if I put her down at seven she wouldn't get up until 10. and her naps would be instead of two hours four she she's had a six hour nap before during a short skirt Mary was sleeping for long periods because she was malnourished and her body was struggling to conserve energy and how would you check your check or closed all the way um there's also a hole in the door that I put there because and not very Savvy with tools and I hit the door with a hammer so those are the hammer over there so I use it as the people that's a good idea and you don't close your door fully just because the humidity Falls the door and I don't want it to lock shut yeah so um it was closed but not completely so I'll push it a little and every time I push it she won't wake up so she'll jerk so if she move in and I'll take in her I'll feed him yeah and I shall start over a music player that shown my blue light like a pure face and I could see her breathing and so did you do that buttercups okay for all your kids in the same bedroom when they were infants yeah okay do they all sleep in the same crib yeah okay and so did that cred ever get removed out of that bedroom or is that kind of always there no it was removed because um and in that room with that crib and it was removed it to put his um big boy back so for one at about her six six month Mark which would have been February or April so in April fish she had one week of sleeping a lot yeah okay but then after that one week she went back to the basic schedule that we just discussed and did her schedule ever change again not until recently which I thought she was going through her nine month growth part time she's sleeping a lot lately so recently her her um her um schedule changed again and when you say recently about when ish was then all three days ago okay so three days ago what what happened then we went um so three today is Thursday so uh Tuesday was it Monday Tuesday well Tuesday you remember what day that you would specifically remember it changing or you don't have a specific recollection I don't I don't but I know I didn't have work I can say touche yeah excuse me um so tell me what you've noticed she got up at 9 she went to bed and went the night before that so she got up at zero nine after going to bed at seven and it just reminded me of when she was six months old it was seemed consistent then she would eat like crazy and then she would doze off again like she was ready for bed immediately after eating so I feel like okay it's consistent with the other children so I put her down and she'd sleep for about three hours get up again eat and it seemed like she wanted to go to bed but I I kept her up and she hung out and was interacted smiling um but then she'd start to [ __ ] so she wanted to go back to bed she's very tired and she only liked to sleep in her bed she'll sleep in the car or the truck but so so um three days ago did things happen enough that we could establish the routine was she on a three-day routine could like we just established two different routines that she was on did she have a routine the last three days no it was very it was a bit erratic and she was I would try and keep her up just because I was worried that she was sleeping so much but um and she wanted to sleep she wanted to sleep was she eating yeah yeah very well and uh I mean the Sunday before last we went to Golden Corral and she just feasted she really liked the marshmallow sweet potatoes so you thought this was a growth spur is that because you noticed her growing again yes and I remembered with my other two children fusari is trying to make them believe Mary's weight was normal until fairly recently but according to Witnesses this was not the case so at six months we were yeah and so uh does at those nine month growth spurt what how how much were you guessing her at then maybe 20. okay and when was the last time that you thought she was 20 pounds yes sir and yesterday when you thought she was 20 pounds how long would you have guessed her to be I wish you quite long because she was born at 20 inches right here and she would just wrap around the side there so I thought so these last three days that she was going through her growing spur you were off from work Tuesday that's the first day that you know what's up and then I went to work once yesterday and I worked and she does have a different schedule when I go to work if you need to make note of that yes what's what's that so in the morning she gets out of her children breakfast for her and for everyone a half hour while the kids eat and then oatmeal oatmeal with maybe some maple syrup in it or oatmeal with strawberries in it um just depends oatmeal or oatmeal mixture out of bottles and stuff okay um and then I'd keep her up and she would be awake until I had to go to work she'll she'd be awake then it was time to go outside and help Daddy with the fields and we do reading or I'd sit Mary in our stroller and she'd just sit and watch the Ducks and just laugh at them so you didn't you didn't work too sure you start your day again I was busy because the shop um no I'm sorry your work day on your days of work what time did you start three o'clock so you keep her awake from Seven till three until she's 30. till 2 30. yeah and so during that time that she was kept awake how many other meals did she have about yeah well the seven o'clock one was breakfast it was nursing for 30 minutes oatmeal it's maple syrup or fruit whatever you had around there's one with the next meal then be on on this different routine day oh probably about one of the kids wanted so it would be then she is maybe 9 30 10. and that's um they'll actually be quiet time for the kids so we should go in their room and have they could read if they could sit in their bed quietly an entire hour okay and then if the kids were getting too Restless then oh time go back outside or they'd have to clean your room yeah but um for yesterday um occasionally went back outside it was just so nice out um she likes that it keeps her quiet if you go for washing the stroller so it's just not no driveway we check the mail garbage the wonderful garbage from um the weeding we've cut from Leech to the goat and uh and then I mean that's another couple hours and then it'd be about maybe 2 15. or no I'm sorry it'd be about 1 30. so the last time she would have eight would have been 1 30 yesterday in the afternoon no I feed her again at 1 30 and then sorry is told the first lie which leaves no room for the possibility that she is mistaken the autopsy revealed that Mary had not been fed in the last several days that took longer because she was about eight ounces of oatmeal um and then I would uh I think the kids were still outside um oh yeah um resting my feet before work I'm just standing very hard yeah was that 130 yeah that's true then um 2 30 was when Mary was finished eating at 2 30 was yep was the end of it and that's when I was going to over again poopy diaper yesterday morning when I got her up for today have you noticed a decline in poopy diapers no not at all she's such a surprise to me I mean this morning and when I got her up she had spit up and I so yesterday morning when you got her up at seven she had stood up oh this one at night what color was her spit up on me and so where was the setup at the side of her mouth um and was that did you think I don't know who it was that food was it blood no it was hot blood sugar had any kind of vomiting of blood or anything like that no never okay we were taken to a doctorate for sure so you're you're certain it was food yeah yeah and it was on the site it was on what side of her face all right fine and then that's when you noticed that she was unresponsive it was this morning when you saw that and what what happened next uh I uh I I excuse me um her eyes were open to anything what else looks strange other than obviously just stood up and then her eyes were open part of other than that this should look as usual it's just cold okay so I went in to just get set if it's an emergency and he's like he's like and I was just so shocked that he reminded me I knew CPR and he told me to search so I took her from the bed and I put her on her cheating people and um I I started PPR and I did the the two finger touch on the chest if you use your whole hand you could break ranch right you didn't want to do that that's for sure so I did a two-finger touch on the chest in her back and I scratch your mouth and I just um so you did this on her tape on the kitchen table no the changing table the changing table in the bedroom yes so you said you did it on her mouth and you wiped her mouth oh wiped her mouth first because it was the sit up and now that I think about it I think it was banana oatmeal you know when bananas been sitting out and it's very ripe it gets that like brownish color um but ripe banana is very sweet and the cheese that will feel better with it so what did you wipe her mouth what a baby wipe a lavender scented baby white okay and then you did what with that nothing's in the garbage okay well not immediately no I just like her and put it to the side this is why I turned through it now yeah right next on the TV and then you picked her up out of the bun uh yes and then I then I put her on a changing table and then um when I was pumping her chest there was like bubbles bubbles coming out of her mouth um so I thought maybe that that's why I thought she choked and then maybe if I kept humping like it would like maybe it would come out and then she'd like cough and wake up and I was getting her air and getting her um helping with my thing which is my two fingers maybe I should have done more you're doing it right and she was still so cold and I think maybe 10 10 minutes I don't it's so hard to gauge time oh absolutely yeah and uh it's not just me the whole time and you just is she gone while he's crying just asking me she got and it's just so hard to say yes she said yes about responses and then we had no idea what to do then at all like who do what do we very chill and so he called his parents or he called his dad first excuse me and rather than immediately calling 9-1-1 fusarian Welch called his parents want to know what happened and um we'll try and get there before they do and we just spent the entire time on the couch wait I'm crying we did sleep it was just my mother a lot of them for her but I don't know why well who cares so so this morning you found her about nine o'clock and did you did is that this whole time you woke up and and she's always up at shop uh yes except when she's going through a growth start she'll sweep into about nine or ten okay which is why I went to check in on her at night and I wondered why wasn't up yet but last night when I came home I I opened the door just for Ted Julie could make that noise after you finish feeding her at 2 30. yeah and you brought her to bed at 2 30 and that was the last time you saw her because you went to work then yeah yeah but then you came home at 11 30. and when you open the door you saw movement from her your certainly sounded absolutely okay okay so did you go any further into that room other than just looking through the door yeah the crack in the door was it the hole in the door or the crack in the door that you looked at it was a hole in the door I didn't open the door completely I just pushed it enough so it would make the noise it's a very old creaky door so I push it enough it makes the noise it doesn't open the door completely and she nudges because she hears it when you say that you saw her moving well how did you see her move can you describe that she was laying on her back still um her blanket wasn't kicked off and I only wrapped it right around the knees down to her feet to keep her feet warm um and she had her polar bear but she likes to play with her polar bear before she goes to bed so she kicked it off to the side um she was laying on her back her head was turned to the left side of it so when I pushed the door open she jerked her arm a little and turned her head so I can see their eyes are still closed she was clicking a bit and then okay and that's what that's what she does and what time would that have been around 11 30 . we'll just say like Mary had already been dead for some time and it is doubtful that fusari checked on her she knows that telling the detectives how many hours had passed since she truly checked on Mary would not make her look good and she is hoping to pass herself off as a caring mother so when but but she went to bed bath three wouldn't it be odd wouldn't wouldn't it be odd like for a chef that she's still in bed when he went to bed she's embedded she went to church of sleep at 2 30. yeah I mean I get that but you you saw her and we saw her and she's tiny Tatiana we're all parents in this room okay and we all need to be honest remember in the car when I first talked with you and I told you that at the end of the day we all need to know exactly right okay so we need to tell our story okay and I want you to think about this for a minute I want you to think for a second and put yourself in our shoes you're the police officer you're the police detective you get called out to that home today you get called to my home or his home today okay you the police officer and then you have to go into that house you have to look at that that precious little angel okay do you think she was healthy honestly when you look at her size and you can see every single bone in her body do you think she was healthy we know this is an easy Tatiana but we need to know what happened to her what was going on so when did she start losing all that weight she's lost so much weight that you can't lose that much in two days busari silence when asked if she believed that Mary was healthy is telling it is obvious that she knew that the child was dying she tries to tell them that Mary lost weight in the last few days but they point out that it would have been impossible to lose that much that quickly [ __ ] I've never seen a child that skinny never and here's the thing you're obviously a very concerned mom but at what point at what point did you know what what point did you think something was wrong because I know that you knew something or you thought something wrong you are an intelligent educated woman and at some point you felt something was wrong and yeah in his interview Welsh also insists that he thought Mary was starting to gain weight so when at what point did she she can't even weigh eight pounds right now she doesn't weigh pounds when's the last time that you actually inspected her that you looked at her tell me the truth what were you blinded by because I know listen you are an intelligent articulate college educated early childhood development you know you know when you look at someone that something's wrong I have a picture of her right here I'm prepared to show you that tells you no medical treatment as dumb as I am I'm not near as intelligent as you I can't speak the words you can speak I'm not you and even I can look at this photo and I can say whoa something's wrong it put tears in our eyes when we walked in there it was that obvious Tatiana I'm gonna be quite honest with you right now okay one parent to another right and I'm gonna try and control my emotions all right I've been to a child death investigator school and I've seen photos and images of children that have been malnourished and I'm telling you right now this is the worst thing I've ever seen yes you you clearly need help too though okay you don't want this this is baggage this is something that but all I want to know is what stops you from seeking help you knew something was wrong what stopped you tell us the truth I mean you guys that financially strapped I mean what is it do you not believe in health care do you I mean do you have religious beliefs I mean what is it okay well we do have religious beliefs tonight and we just we were praying about it and we have faith us but when did you start praying about him consistently and heavily the past three three four days so three four days ago and he started praying what were your prayers she's eating wives and it's sticking like why like I she ate so much like but so why why stick not unusual for a case like this fusari and Welsh only seem to have religious beliefs when it gets them out of things they don't wish to do such as vaccinate their children or have them receive health care I have a strong faith as well a very strong faith and I think God answers prayers I'm working on that I also think God puts people in places to help people but we all have our own beliefs but here's what I'm saying is that you you guys knew enough was wrong to start heavily and consistently praying why don't we seek help you knew no no here's Robert holder yes but he was also very I'm faithful and then trusting God and Trust and Trust would be okay and I didn't think we needed to I'll bring her to a doctor we know how long did you know this what the can that doesn't happen in three days it doesn't happen in four days so when did you dilute yourself when did you start when did this condition start I think within a month oh it should be up and down share cheeks should be full and and bright and then a couple days later she would she would look ill or hungry and then we're not outrageous just her cheeks wouldn't be as full as they were shocking them yeah and then so when did you notice that she had all her bones showing about a month let me ask you this when was the last time you bathed her so about a month ago you you notice that her bones are all showing right and so this is that when you started heavily praying no I was treated the past few days because because about a month ago would be like full and then you know two days later it'd be sunken in but then within the day be full again but then the past few days it wouldn't fill up as quickly as it used as it did but listen here's what I'm saying listen I get that but her legs were as small as my pointer finger so you that that didn't happen in three days and I know that you know that and I know that you wanted to get her help but I'm trying to just figure out when did this happen I understand that maybe he started seeing some kind of symptoms a month ago but when when did she consistently lose all of this weight when did she consistently become skin and bones so she was always walked back her earlier statement and says that Mary's condition had deteriorated over the last month rather than the last three days this begs the question of why she didn't realize that Mary needed to go to the hospital so within a month so then why when we had a month to look at her like this why why didn't we get help how'd you think she was gonna get better was she really truly eating the way that you were telling us yes yes because it you know if you want he has a photo of her and if you want to see it I mean she I'm pretty sure that I explained this to both you and Seth when you were in my car with me um you know she's there's going to be an autopsy done okay and there was a medical a person from the medical examiner's office at the house okay so we're gonna know all the sources yeah but and you're not you're not a bad person we get all this and we get that there's there's a dynamic here that we're trying to figure out there is a dynamic here I'm gonna tell you I know it I can I know there's a dynamic and I feel that you wanted to get her help I'm trying to just figure out why you didn't what's the dynamic what am I missing because you can't tell me that this Brooklyn New York this New York College city college educated Grand Rapids Community College Early Childhood person didn't know that this girl needed help but something stopped her I just was trying to figure out what it is what stood between you and help that I was just I think I was worried about another GPS call from the doctors and I thought that um Mary would get better but at what point did you get better so two three days ago you thought she wasn't going to get better so then why didn't we call them what because I thought that I was deemed helpful and I I you start you thought you were being doubtful of Christ yes ening in my face and I just if that sorry will not even look at the detective a sign that she is lying and using this as an excuse for her actions what Joe I want to know out of YouTube which one which which one of you wanted to go to take her to the doctor I know he didn't and I I didn't for a long time and until recently it just became a little far in my head that you really should and then it's about just losing faith you can almost see in fusari's eyes the moment when she chooses to start throwing Welch under the bus by saying that she is the one who wanted Mary to see a doctor but he prevented her from going so you thought you you saw you lose you thought you were losing faith by thinking you needed to go to the doctor yeah [Music] so so and that's what we're that's that's what we're trying to figure out do you think I'm not ridicuing this I just want to know do you guys think that that God doesn't want us to use doctors so you do you think God puts people in places to help us yes I do it and do you think doctors could be those people so all still I I get what you're saying but that's what I'm telling you two days ago I could have looked at this child and I could have said this child has hours to live two days ago I could have looked at this child and I probably would have thought this challenge in minutes to live two days ago if I'd have seen this towel in your hands in a stranger at my ass snatched this child out of your hands and face the consequences that's what I'm trying to reason with is that you so what you didn't you didn't receive the help and you knew that two days ago you knew you just said that you that she was probably what you say beyond help or whatever it was two days ago at what point at what point in this illness did you think there's a good chance she's gonna die how could you not think that delusional much I don't have a reason why because I think that I should think such a hopeful mom I suppose that I don't have a good reason for you I'm sorry what was your conversations like with sex you said a minute ago that you knew that he didn't want to go to a doctor yeah because we discussed just discussed her conditions yes when was the first time you guys discussed that maybe a month ago so a month ago is when what did you notice a month ago because I'm I'm certain you're the one because you said that you know Seth didn't want to go so obviously you're the one that brought up needing to go to the doctor what did you notice a month ago that she filling into her clothing like she should and you know we talked about it just have faith and just we'll keep feeding her like we do and keep nursing her and Super Active and she'll get there it's okay she'll get there but let me ask you something if Seth told you that God told him to sacrifice one of your children would you do it no that's what I'm saying though by using an extreme example the detective forces fusari to face the fact that her excuse doesn't hold water and that she is trying to use a false claim of religious conviction to absolve her of any guilt in Mary's death head around how many conversations did you have with Seth about this you don't want to worry about it we we trusted God then would he get angry talking about it what would happen What would he how would he react if you took him to the took her to the doctor anyway I'm just asking to speculate I think they would just be concerned that GPS would be called but not angry just okay just know that you took the doctor expects UPS to come to the house he's not an angry type person no how how is he as far as emotional goes do you cry a lot because he was here would you say that he wears his emotions on his sleeve I suppose I mean I went going through our primary marriage feelings and how we would like to be treated and how I love him excuse me I'm treating him well and then in return told me he realized that he wasn't being a respectful husband and wasn't treating you all either so he's very intuitive and he was and expressive which is rare so today at nine o'clock you found very deceased what time were we called I think it was the why the time that the sheriff's department was called to responding your house was at 1206. 9 9 that's when 911 hours and six minutes later that would explain two thirds in one hour what about the other two hours and six minutes of waiting I think that we were in such a state of fact let me ask you this did you ever look at and how tiny and sunken and skeletal she looked and say we're in trouble did you guys have a discussion about him no did he say anything to you about that did you why did it come across your mind what were you thinking is that why it took so long to call me anymore I've never worked a case it's taken that long to call 9-1-1 it's just like never happened before but with anyone we knew or by waiting so long to call the police and going so far as to call someone else first it makes it look like fusari and Welsh were trying to cover up something rather than experiencing a shock what to do and you said yes the police they're on our way wait until we're close but but even even by um her father-in-law he wasn't even called until around approximately 10 30 to 10 45 so we're still looking at an hour and a half it may have been after nine then because that is a very long time and it did not feel that long at all it must have been just before 10 men I know it was before 10 but it was definitely after nine that is an excessively long time to just stand around there that's so so all right let's let's even just give the benefit of the doubt and save 10. okay okay so it's 10 o'clock so because like you said you know it was before 10 but we'll just play it safe and say this time okay and so 10 o'clock rolls around you you you check everything you did CPR for about 10 minutes or I know what you told so then what what'd you do for the next two hours because that's still that's related yeah um before you called us you waited for two hours before we got called we waited for my in law school we were trying to const and then we got well we were trying to come to them was that like a long process I actually don't know I'm sorry I was just I was just obsessed with someone I contacted them and I'm like sure I don't know how long it took if any time at all I was just very um very strong so you said you slapped what else what other kind of house cleaning did you do because you said your mother-in-law doesn't like a dirty house the kids distract them I put your toys away do they know what was going on we told them but I don't so they clean their rooms and then what did you end up hugged and prior and we just sat on the couch and just silent but you know there's just some odd thing obviously you know you know this case is odd and and you never once expressed a set that hey this doesn't this isn't good look at her look at her no did he ever did he ever even make a comment about her body you guys talked to her and he never he never said anything about it do you know how he described us on the phone I could even listen to the 9-1-1 he described her as nope she's dead as a doornail s just distraught and leave I cried and yeah he cries but he in his interview Welsh never shows the type of emotion that fusari describes he comes across as very uncaring about his daughter's death and sees it as more of an inconvenience than anything else try to be strong for everyone let me ask you a question you you had been through some training or early childhood development schooling and stuff like that correct yeah did you ever receive or go through any kind of like CPR training or anything like that okay let me ask you this if you were driving down the road kids are in the back seat in their car seats and you're driving down the road and you witness a car accident what are you going to do and there's people that are bloody there at the scene what are you gonna do go over Evan check to see if anyone's responsive and then they call the police they can let them know what was going on and if there's something I could do I I try but I know that if there's any sort of injury that I'm not familiar with I can't move the body okay so you know that you can call 9-1-1 right yes so then why not call 9-1-1 immediately when your child's not moving that's what I don't understand it was like hangover I'm like it's shock I I'm sure I don't have an answer for you if you so should never imagine that could happen Jason and I have been doing this a long time and I understand and I've seen it time and time again everybody deals with stress and reacts to things differently but if there's one thing that I've I've seen in the course of doing this job for a long time is there's usually never a hesitation to pick up the phone call 9-1-1 that is a pretty ingrained pretty rapid basic light saving response that is ingrained in everybody especially in our country because of our emergency medical system that we have when did you first teach your kids about 9-1-1 when did you first teach your children about 9-1-1 less than a year ago so when you're doing CPR you're on screen this up call 9-1-1 wow and I know that that's the Jews think by calling 911 that he would think your faith was less no not at all actually I longer we just he called his dad first wiping the stood up from her face and then he went to contact his parents I don't know how long that took I was just [Music] after she wasn't responding I was just sitting there rocking her I don't know for how long I have no idea for how long and then after he got off the phone with his dad um his dad said okay wait until we are close show and then call the police so we can get there at the same time they do so we can help with any anything I suppose legally so um the two plus hours of time that went by from Discovery until 9-1-1 all I know I'm just asking if you can think of anything else all I know of is 10 minutes of CPR and sitting on the couch and sweeping the house is there any other activity that occurred again some of this stuff is just so weird we're just trying to make sense of it if I were in your position I would I wouldn't understand it either and I'm having trouble engaging it as well as well I should quite some time just holding her [ __ ] just rocking her and then I put her back to her bed and my stomach is actually did you put any additional clothing on her when you put her back in the crib no I didn't so what was in the crib is exactly what was in there you didn't change anything oh I'm sorry by clothing I just assumed you meant what she was wearing on her that was left on her I cover her up fully and I added her little head you what do you mean you covered her fully with clothing yet okay was that blanket in the crib prior or not yes up to her knee it's like I put it by wrapping around over the headphone headquartered on that before and what about this thing that you were talking about the head pillow or whatever where was that it was just a comfy blanket it was not so that's the only thing that wasn't in the crib was that one yeah and she had her polar bear in there by her feet so um during the time that fusari is struggling to account for she or Welsh may have left the house to gather a stock of baby food for the police to find so they would believe Mary was being fed when you're going through school Jason was talking about this NPR and stuff like that did you receive what other kind of like developmental training did you receive getting your education and nutrition and all that so what else I'm sorry a meal plan I'm sure how much that's why I should be eating I was happy with how much she was eating she was eating so much it's like this is such a surprise to me and is there an actual condition that prevents weight gain would you ever Google that there are multiple reasons why a baby would not gain weight they are serious and need to be under a doctor's close supervision no Maybe and maybe I didn't I didn't find anything because I I would I would probably know and and if a doctor was you would have found a lot I think if you Googled it I think you'd think you'd have found a lot of them let me ask you this do you think that you realize too much on WebMD and Google as a parent instead of actually going to a doctor it's just an opinion question I'm just curious I do because you you've kind of brought that up a couple times and I'm just wondering if I like replace it what yeah I mean do you kind of try to self-diagnose your children instead of taking them to a doctor you just look it all up on WebMD and Google and try and figure it out yourself or no I do that more for myself um the only thing I actually feed whatever age she was at at the time to help her gain more weight um standing up potatoes Etc so when you were going through early childhood development education it was that to be a teacher or preschool teacher or Daycare owner operator type that's that's far right yeah it was it should be a our preschool teacher so I know I know I'm sure this was addressed so what are some of the things they told you to look out for if you did have a student that came to school and had a failure to thrive type case not eating um what physical characteristics like sunken and cheeks right ribs showing accent arms did you see those things in your own child so when you went through this education and you were and they told you luck out for that stuff what what was supposed to be your plan of action if you ever saw a child come to school like that it's a culture because you had a what to report you'd have a Duty right yeah did you so so but you didn't help your workout myself that's something everybody and nursing her and playing with her about two or two to four days ago you knew it was really bad Tuesday you knew it was really bad and so that is what prompted you more than ever to be checking and looking to make sure she Wiggles when you move a door and because of how she looks okay yeah it does matter absolutely nobody Tatiana for for one second I don't want you to think that anybody is trying to say that you didn't love your child no okay but I am going to be blatantly honest with you you didn't provide the necessary care for your daughter you didn't excuse me and we're just trying to figure out why do you think you did right so what stopped you truly What stopped you come on from get from getting her help a month ago was it embarrassment was it fear was it what was it I think it was it was fear of GPS I I think that I just thought that I was overreacting and it was just all in my head because I I tend I tend to to overthink things when it's not necessary and I just thought there was another one of those belief comes from Welsh who was constantly belittling fusari's opinions to enforce her belief then he was always in the right I don't know why as far as they appear I mean they what but here's the difference though you just said it right there you just said it as far as they appear but we know kind of appeared healthy so that it's not a delusion it's an observation that your other two children clearly appear healthy right clearly didn't that's comparing apples and oranges so it shows that your observations were working you weren't delusional you know that these two appear hell yeah that's what it did so we need to go get this one fixed figure out what's wrong with it for her to fill out well let me ask you this again did you did you plan on having each of your children no oops we knew we were having a unprotected sex and we knew we wouldn't have a baby from it we just weren't saying okay this day we're going to make the child and she will be gone this day right but real food we have to step out real quick though can we get your water or anything well we're just going to just slide over real quick and talk to Seth I'm just confirming some of the stuff I'm sure he's probably he's sitting on ice right now probably wondering what in the world's going on so do you need to use a restroom as well um all right just just know we'll get you some water while you're using the bathroom I'll walk you to the bathroom I'll get you some water just know that we're going to be down so as long as we've been in here with you you're probably going to be sitting in here we're going to be down there talking to him so that way at least you're not wondering what's going on it's just we're talking to him trying to get his side of this now okay are we in trouble all we're doing is we're just information gathering I'm not going to say how I didn't say that no you're not in trouble because I don't know that yeah it has this whole case has to still be reviewed there's a whole process I have to go through um he put her water down real quick we're gonna get another detective in here to ask what you've gone there real quick okay well just just because it's a security facility that I guess finishing up with stuff so South basis except for that he did say that you'd have to strap him and his family down to the table before a doctor could touch you guys you don't agree with that hi yeah that same belief it dramatic um he grew up reading Shakespeare oh yeah yeah he's a smart guy though very very yeah and he's not surprised he said that but um so he said that his mom starting two about a month ago has been telling him I don't know if she saw a drew that that child needs some Medical Care yes she is how many times has she told him that I don't know anything I guess she told you that once I said how long was that he said that she was just at your house not this last Sunday of the Sunday before that maybe because he went to Golden Corral so it could have been a few days before that and he could be mixing Sundays up longer um but it was definitely within a month it's just a date for a little So within the last she was at your house yeah and she was still interested in he's still interested I mean how many times has she insisted on it um it was once that I only recall one time it could have been twice since because I um I I may have brushed it off the first time she mentioned it so that first time that you may have brushed off would have been uh while she was eating and then asked if I thought about doctor I told her no we're not worried about it we're just praying about it she said okay flower to Fuller so at least finish that keep on feeding her she was saying that because of her weight yeah have you got you discussed or wait with you before I only recall that being the first real time okay when was the second time um when she came to visit I within the month I I may have been and I could we could have went to Golden Corral Sunday before yeah and it doesn't matter okay and what did she say that time she she just did it noted the cheeks are redder and Fuller so um thought that she was taking her food well all right well we're gonna try to get you guys out of here right now I'm just gonna step out and talk to him real quick and just make sure we don't have more follow-up questions so we don't have to keep bothering tonight so let me just just take a couple minutes with him and I'll be right back with you okay um I did use the restroom already I'm sorry I really had to go oh no so that's a bad time we asked someone that was in there and he said this to us and he must have forgotten about yourself sorry foreign Welsh's family in particular won't have to be questioned especially on the point of why they didn't call Child Services when they saw that Welch and fusari were going to allow Mary to suffer Seth's going to come in here and sit with you it's going to be a couple minutes one of my partners is going to run you guys home for me okay because he's working late already you left your wife that's all right you're not you don't need it I'll throw I'll throw it away it's okay I'll uh each couple minutes okay how you doing happy that I'm with you now me too foreign because we're such bad parents not even allowed to talk to him in an unusual twist Welch and fusari have been allowed to stay in the same room watching them interact might give the detectives more insight into what happened and if Welsh is coercing or threatening fusari in any way Welsh rather than showing any sign that he is upset about losing his daughter is instead sulking about how he is being treated like he is a bad parent eating habits and developmental skills finally go to European food and then I think that was a distraction because right after that I was just like why'd it take you so long to call you just get boring me without anybody to call the police after oh fighting out I told you like six times I was waiting for the lawyer to be there because we knew this would happen Welsh is irritated by some of fusari's statements to the detectives knowing that they will make him look bad what would you do while you're waiting I called off work I I slept and I said and cried she said listen to this baby their job is to fill South it's their job so they can fill two sales right now they're not pass me asking me to Burrito so they're done we're trying to drop a wedge in between and help somebody accuses the other they have lost a child and fusari is distressed but Welsh doesn't offer any support in fact he physically withdraws from her and tells her that he won't be discussing the subject for the rest of the day leaving fusari emotionally isolated that's why they came at you first because they're because they don't they can tell by what my name yeah I'm gonna do [ __ ] to me looks like I'm gonna make a new breakdown of the Cutie me is who they're looking for what are we gonna do I don't even know what's gonna happen you go home then we get really big and we I really like to not talk about it at all anymore to me I just can't ever do this again me at least gotta take her we got there's problems we gotta take them to the doctor at least to see okay yep I was counting down hilarious I think they must have heard me on the phone because that's uh to my mom at 7 30 I'm getting up out of here um getting us out of here that was exactly when they came through the door to come talk you know I'm saying I'll wait for I'll wait till 7 30 but we're not on Earth I'm being charged I'm here under my own compulsion I'm free to go so your parents are still deaf no they went home they had to go meet with CPS worker in Grand Haven but if you do with them yeah that's about to walk out of there when he said hey come on down here he's honest with me like oh he said five minutes it's gonna be another two hours you know yeah we put my phone up beside the door oh he did yeah they're gonna let you just hold me in here indefinitely with my permission while leaving me communication the podcast and I'm like they told me to read a passionate that was over there and I went for that they're trying to make you make use personality you're here under your own completion and I'm not sure we're doing this as a show sitting in jail as a result of Welch's poor medical decisions should be a hint to fusari that he isn't an expert in the law either but she is either easily swayed by his competence or so used to giving in to him that she doesn't bother to argue okay this is all I want they want to charge they want something it's got to be money in battle there's got to be you know so you can't you can't contest bury a dead body God gotta pay somebody you just gotta be a good person why are you doing here guys I don't know what to tell you you know like it wasn't junk full of broke hormones and steroids me do you think I'm happy about it well shows the most emotion over the fact that he will have to pay for his daughter's burial cause of death in this country is because they were only there with me for about 10. was it you're trying to squeeze you to get you to say something that I did something so I took my phone too and tomorrow's Friday great probably really interested in on me getting it huh it's a murder case man is that actually I was cooking something in jail gonna do it's gonna feel so well that's what their ears now before profits somebody non-verbal okay yeah I've been shy but he hasn't interacted with anybody so he wasn't interacted with to be verbals like who's put me on [ __ ] trial the whole system on I'll put the whole system on try I'll put me on try you're not in your [ __ ] life neither Welsh nor fusari seemed to grasp that they are accountable for their daughter's death and that there will indeed be a trial especially a big sister teaching words commercial excited so do you gotta understand what cops are not really like they're just trying to give somebody a contest to a crime that's all they're trying they don't care if they lie they don't care about anything you just don't take it personally and you just yep whatever I don't care about you that was nice probably I don't care we're gonna check on your phone like eventually once anything they want the thing is they want something so bad you know they could get negligent negligence how to have fun I'm not worried about that I'm not worried about going to court about that with my mom no poop on my paper just doesn't bother me foreign that would never happen why would you even ask me that it's like just saying I know you guys no next or I do we'll come for somebody to think something you know they're just here to help you just remember that hey they're just here to help why I tell you if you didn't say it so much it made me believe you trying to convince did they give you water yeah throughout their conversation Welsh and fusari forget that they're being recorded foreign guys try and we're just trying to make sure we have all the paperwork and everything that we need to get you guys out of here um I already did a forum like this with your husband so I'll go over it with you um your phone was back at the house and we collected that as part of our search warrant back at your house um so there's two ways that we can go through your phone okay I can either get you to sign a consent form or I can get a search warrant signed by a judge to go through it so it's completely up to you if you are willing to sign a consent form I have a form here that I can go over with you and allow you to read and if you're willing to um we can do that so it's up to you I'm curious to life it so part of any investigation people most everybody has a cell phone on them and we would just be looking at communication verifying timelines as far as when he called his dad and if there was any text message conversations between you guys regarding the well-being of your daughter I mean it's just that stuff just to verify that everything is on the up and up okay t-a-t-i-n-a fter t-i-a-n-a what was your middle name again Elena e-l-e-n-a in your birthday at all [Music] if you just want to read that real quick and then if you're okay with that just sign right there so what I'll do is um get told Seth us already I'm gonna try and get both of your phones then over to the lab first thing in the morning and I will get them back to you because all they're going to do is image it and I can give your phone back and then they basically put the information from the phone on a disk and then I can go through it at a later time so we try to get people their phones back as quick as we can so it's not like I'm going to be holding on to this for months okay weeks um is there a passcode on your phone yeah no okay um okay all right we finally we had some car shuffling going on around the guy that's actually gonna give you a ride is my sergeant that was in talking with you guys here with me so um I think he's just grabbing his keys and we're gonna get you out of here okay while Shin fusari will be allowed to go home for now although their remaining children will not be released into their custody foreign just just here to help she looks like [ __ ] when she was dead too she was so gone I'm not trying to get I'm just saying that's why that's why and they won't they'll just they believe what they saw give me a picture of her it didn't look real I mean she was dead overnight and then she was sitting there all day Dad and then they're gonna take that of course I mean there's room at 80 degrees of course I was talking to him with a car they really wanted they really wanted me to have shaking her anyway does he cry yeah incredibly let's please just let's try China to think about it in her in this just for the rest of the day okay just for tonight I just didn't please just try to wipe it away wanting to wipe away what happened to Mary is unbelievably selfish and is yet another example of why no child should ever be in Welsh's care if I get those phones done like later tomorrow you think that you'll be at home there's you won't be at your parents in Grand Haven or anything so no so if I just drop because I'm not gonna have a way to call you guys so I'll be home come up there you guys will be there yeah okay whatever day off tomorrow do you have a day off anyway all right you probably take the rest will be gone for some [Applause] little lady there into there I just don't even talk about it no I just I just I know I'm just what a mess y too yeah everything's just two minutes and five minutes and just grabbing yeah foreign [Music] sorry I need to stop this gets along turning sometimes when we went to go with the clothes yeah so what a long time ago um got back together good I still feel quiet about this she's encouraging him her father was three miles away action 10 years ago we should chat about that if you don't know every time fusari tells Welsh about something else that the detectives have asked he becomes more upset believing that he is the one being victimized she had a great shot in the backyard he's been left us the truck it might actually have some respect for them not even notice they went all out of paper too down there [Music] external shaders yeah I've tried again before anybody showed up all right can we get out of here you must bring me a ride for sure let me [ __ ] for a while before they came in and talked to everything because you've been here with you for a while perfect time teacher from like birth to now and the kids developmentally and cognitively basically um thank you not confusing like I can't hear what people like I think that your stuff's gonna do you'll get trapped and [ __ ] like that yeah are you guys ready to go yes sir all right I'll give you a ride back up there you want another cup or anything or okay all right Tatiana fusari was found guilty on charges of first-degree murder and first degree child abuse she was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole she was also sentenced to 15 to 30 years on the child abuse charge that sentence will run concurrently with the life sentence fusari's remaining children including one born while she was in jail have been placed in homes and fusari has been stripped of her parental rights that'll do it for today if you like this video and want to support the channel there's a patreon link in the description below where you can do just that thank you for watching stay safe