Hi. >> Hey. Come over here. >> What's going on? >> Let me see your keys. All right. Turn around. Turn around. Turn around. >> Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. What? >> You're being detained right now. Okay. >> What's cooking it? >> This is a I don't know. >> Hello, San Jose police. >> Oh, she uh did that herself. >> Yeah. This might be one of the most unusual cases you've ever seen. Officers find Karen Navara dead and right away there are four possible explanations for what might have happened. But as investigators follow one detail after another, the focus shifts toward an unexpected suspect. Karen's 90-year-old stepfather, Anthony Ayello. >> It's like, hey, this thing shows Tony's responsible. This thing shows Tony's responsible. That thing shows Tony's responsible. That thing shows Tony's responsible. The video shows Tony's responsible. The blood in the sink shows Tony's responsible. What do I do? I think you did some really evil stuff. >> No way. I'm not that kind of a man whatsoever. >> Sadly, a human can do a lot of crazy things. >> Not this kid. >> Right. >> Loveable man. On September 13th, 2018, officers are dispatched for a routine welfare check. But almost immediately, a 911 call interrupts that assumption. Two separate alarms are ringing at once, and neither one is reassuring. >> Santa emergency. What are you reporting? >> Yeah, this is I'm reporting regarding my coworker. She didn't show up for work for last two days. And then my work called me because I was I let close to her to go check her house. And I came here and I'm knocking at the door. She didn't answer the door. And then I I I just slightly pressed the door. the door open and she's sitting on the chair and there her face is all black spots on her face. I got scared and came out and I don't know if she has some if she's alive or I need emergency medical help, please. What this coworker has walked into is beyond nightmarish for someone expecting nothing more than concern. >> Okay. What is the address where you are right now, ma'am? >> It's it's her address is 10757 Terra Way. >> Teran Noble Way, San Jose. >> Thank you so much. Let me make sure that I get the correct location. Okay. Is that a house or an apartment? >> No, it's a house. And I'm sure what does she have on her face? [snorts and clears throat] Some kind of black spots. I I just can't I didn't look until she >> And they're not She's not responding to you at all. [clears throat] >> I don't call her name. >> Yes. >> Okay. And so she didn't turn around. She didn't talk to you or anything like that. >> No, I banged on the door. I'm banging on the door and then I keep kicking out. Okay. Thank you so much. I already have help alerted. Okay. They have already been alerted. This is not delaying any of the help. Okay. So, are you inside the house or are you outside? >> No, I'm I'm outside on the street cuz I came to find help from somebody. >> Okay. A sorry. How did you get access inside the house or how did you >> It was unlocked. >> Oh, okay. I see. >> Okay. And I'm so sorry. I need to ask you this for paramedics that are on the way. So, you'll know if she's breathing or if she's conscious. Correct. I have no idea, ma'am. >> That's okay. >> I'm I'm sorry. I'm not very helpful to you. I'm just very We have already on the way. Okay. Just stay on the line with me. Okay. >> All right. >> Pretty sure you've seen so many cases in which 911 operators don't always get things right. But in this case, the operator stays calm, focused, and compassionate. As the 911 call continues, the officer assigned to the welfare check arrives at the scene, unaware that the situation has already escalated far beyond its original purpose. Thank you very much. >> Is she moving at all? >> I just went inside and I just >> Does she like she passed away? Don't go inside. Hello, San Jose police. Hello, San Jose police. She's probably going to be 10 by five. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, she uh did that herself. >> Yeah. Way one uh subject. >> The officer finds 67year-old Karen Navara dead with a 13-in knife in her hand. Now they need to speak with the coworker. The only person who might help fill in the blank right now. >> She was my coworker for the past 57 years. >> So sorry. >> And then she was supposed to work yesterday. She didn't she always calls. She didn't show up. And then today my coworker called me and see Amber do you know where she lives? Can you go check on her? I said yeah. I said oh. I said I will go now work number. >> Okay. Uh no that's okay. Those those two are enough. So you guys work together and she didn't show up to work yesterday. >> Yes. >> What was yesterday? Uh Tuesday, right? >> Um >> no. Yesterday was Wednesday. Yeah. So I was supposed to work 9 and she was supposed to work whatever shift. I don't know. >> So when was the last time she went to work? Tuesday. No, >> I guess she was off for about off, but I I don't >> And she was off before that. Okay. >> I think so. She was off cuz I work only three fifths now. >> Okay. >> So, I don't have I can go home and check the schedule if you want. >> Okay. So, she didn't come to work yesterday. >> And did you try to call her? >> Uh my co-workers. I mean, >> but just you. Okay, that's fine. So, you came over here today just to kind of check up on her? >> Yes. I first tried to call her from my home >> today. Today. Yes. >> Karen worked as a pharmacy technician at a regional medical center. She was last seen by co-workers on September 4th and was on approved paid time off until September 12th. Quick pause for a second. If you're enjoying my videos, consider subscribing. We're incredibly close to 1 million subscribers. Hitting subscribe really helps us get there. Your support means more than you know. >> So, you were banging on the door and did you walk into the house? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> That's how I found out that she was saw I saw her and I couldn't >> Did you touch her at all? >> No, I didn't. I did. You didn't even get closer to her. >> So, you just saw her and you immediately called 911. >> Yes. Yes. cuz I mean I work in medical field and some my six sense said something is not wrong rather than trying to and honestly I could see her or her face and everything. >> I understand it's it's a very tough thing to see. I I >> I know I shouldn't be asking this question but can I ask you was it a foul play or she had some kind of infection? I you know I don't know exactly it it it looks like it's self-inflicted but I I can't tell it it appears self-inflicted but my partners did focused on the investigating inside the house. We'll have a coroner come by um do a more thorough investigation. >> Finding something like this without warning has to be the kind of trauma that disturbs even your worst nightmares. As officers conduct a security sweep of the house, they notice that the drawers in Karen's room have been ransacked. So Karen may have been the victim of a robbery. But this doesn't look random. No robber would take the time to make the scene look staged, which raises the possibility that Karen wasn't just unlucky, she was also chosen. At this stage, investigators narrow it down to four possibilities. Some form of robbery, a self-inflicted injury, an accident or medical episode, or foul play. And only one of those explains everything they're seeing. >> That's why I'm asking you all these questions because I'm here. I'm here 24/7. Whatever help I >> You were the first one. So, who knows? Maybe there's a detail, anything that you know. Do you know if she had any um Any enemies? Any? >> No, she is she had no siblings. Her >> was she struggling with depression perhaps that you know of or >> she she lived alone. She have couple of cats in there. >> Mhm. >> But uh she didn't seem like a depressed person to me. She was showing to work. She was taking care of things. >> She loved uh plants. So you could >> Did you work closely with her? We were co-workers. >> Um, >> do you know on the off chance that anyone needs followup? >> Her parents, she one time she needed something. Her parents also lived very close. >> Her dad passed away a couple of years ago. So her uh mother premarried and she always had very good words for her step. Got >> it. And you said you were co-workers for 27 years. >> Yes. 27 about 27 28 years. As more officers arrive to search the house for answers, Karen's family start arriving at the scene. >> Husband Karen, her daughter. >> Oh, your your husband. >> Her mother's husband. >> Mother's husband. Okay. >> Right here when I came to pick up the mail. >> Oh, okay. >> The lady was at the house a while ago or whatever she was. My name is Tony. Tony. Okay. Okay. Uh yeah, we're just we're just standing by right now. So, um we'll probably we're going to leave everything the way it is right now. Okay. >> That's a good idea. >> Yeah. >> What the hell? >> We don't know. That's what we're trying to figure out. So, >> yeah. >> Meanwhile, officers inside notice a crucial thing they missed before. They noticed large lacerations on her face, neck, and back of the head. This isn't self-inflicted. Whatever happened here involved another person? >> Okay. >> Guess any questions or whatever? >> Okay. Yeah. Um, did someone already talk to you and get your information? >> Uh, where name was >> from the corner? >> Yeah, >> from the corner talk to you. >> Talk to you already. >> Okay. >> Yeah, she just left. >> Okay. I'll pay for my check mail. >> Okay. Yeah, we're gonna we're going to leave everything the way it is for now and then maybe um you know you can come back maybe later on tonight or something. Um because the detectives might need just just to make sure. >> Absolutely. Been around. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They mailed then we're not going to come away for any reason anyway. So >> yeah. Okay. And then you guys haven't come inside the house at all, right? >> No. >> No. Okay. All right. Just just Okay. >> And from this exact moment forward, Tony becomes a central figure in this story. And it won't take long to understand why. >> Huh? >> When's the last time you saw her? >> Friday. I brought her pizza and cookies. [laughter] >> What time was that? >> I think it was around 3:00 like I told that lady over there. >> Yeah. Okay. I was here >> not that long but 5 minutes 10 minutes that's about it. >> Okay. >> You know there's anybody else that would have been here uh after you anyone else would have came for any errands. >> The only thing I know there was I was outside of my yard in the house there and I saw her go by. She came that oh in fact when I brought the pizza she said oh good. Thank you. I'm going to have a pizza party with my friends. What? And when did you see her drive by? >> A little after 5 >> 5 my house. Yeah. >> When When was that? What day? >> Same day Friday when I bought the pizza. Yeah. >> Okay. And then uh >> I didn't know what it was. Bul the horn. I put it on. >> Okay. >> Tony's demeanor is off. He laughs at moments that don't call for it. Inside the house. Based on the initial survey of the scene, officers determined the death is suspicious. The homicide unit and crime scene unit are contacted to take over the investigation. Karen's body is sent for autopsy while detectives begin speaking with her mother Adele and her stepfather Anthony to introduce the possibility that this was not an accident. >> Come in. Hi. >> Hello, sir. How are you? >> Sergeant Monteneg. I'm Anthony. >> Nice to meet you. >> Detective Brian Mer. Nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you. My wife will be right off. She's in the bathroom. >> Very good, sir. >> Do you mind if I sit down? >> I don't charge. [laughter] >> Hello, ma'am. How are you? >> That's my wife. >> My better half. I mean, >> I understand. >> Oh, we got one of those, too. >> How are you, ma'am? >> Glad to know you're there. >> My name is Brian Mer. I'm a detective with the San Jose Police Department. This is my partner, Detective Sergeant Montine. >> Hi, Adele. How are you? >> Two tall guys. Wow. >> Oh, yeah. >> They grow us like that. >> I see what's missing over here is over there. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Oh, I got a correction to make. I thought my sergeant the sergeant and the lady there. >> Yes. >> That I brought the pizza was a Friday, but my wife just correct me. Said no, it was Saturday. Saturday last time he saw her. Yeah. >> Okay. But unfortunately, we think that someone else is probably responsible for her passing. >> I know that >> um that's why we're here. >> I know that >> Sergeant Monte and I work in the homicide unit. >> We are charged with finding out what happened, getting to the truth, and figuring out who did what. >> Yeah. >> We're going to ask you a lot of questions. >> Please do. >> Um Okay. >> We want to know as much as we can about your daughter. Uh, we want to know who she was with, who her friends are, if she was having any problems. >> That I'm not going to be much help with. >> Okay. >> Except for the people she worked with. >> Okay. >> I know knew she did say she was have when she saw Tony Saturday, she said she was having company that night, but I don't know who that was. >> Okay. Saturday night. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Did she say who that was with? >> No, she talked to Tony. >> When I brought the pizza and the cookies over there, she goes, "Oh, boy. We got pizza. We're going to have a party with my friends and that's all >> that's all we know. >> Okay. >> If they were or if they came, I have no idea. >> And that was Saturday. >> That was Yeah, that was a mistake. I thought it was Friday. My wife >> res. >> So, [laughter] you guys are both sure it was definitely on Saturday. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Tony doesn't realize it yet, but he places himself in Karen's last known movements. >> Yeah. Because he >> How long did you stay for? >> How long did I stay there? Yeah. >> Let him 10 minutes. I don't think somewhere in there. >> Were you in the backyard? Yeah. You were in the backyard? >> Yeah. We were going to look at the flowers that you >> Oh, she picked the roses for me. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Tony explains that he went into the backyard to look at flowers. Right now, it's an oddly peaceful detail that stands out because of how disconnected it feels from everything else happening. But this is going to turn out to be one of the most crucial details. >> I don't think so. >> Do you remember what? Uh, so you already cut the pizza? >> Yeah, I cut it away with a scissor. She Oh, she goes, she goes, "That's a new style. Cut the pizza instead with a knife." I said, "It's easier." >> Honey, have any idea how many pieces of >> I don't like that. >> Oh, okay. >> That's okay. We'll figure that out. >> Double two plate, two paper plates, and the foil. So there was nobody else that was there when you got there. >> Did she mention that she was going to have anybody over? >> Yeah, she said she go to have a company. She was going to have coming over. >> Okay. Not >> friends one or or >> Yes. Well, I was just going to ask him how many friends. [clears throat] Did she say friends or friend? >> You know, I don't know. [laughter] >> Did she say party for sure or did you are you saying she >> Well, she said friends. I guess she did. >> She didn't say party. >> No. Okay. Makes a difference. >> When I have a When I have a pizza with mushrooms, that's it. >> Okay. At the house. At Oh, yeah. She Okay. >> He seems almost amused by the pizza story. And maybe that's nerves. Maybe that's personality. Or maybe that's just one of those moments where the reaction doesn't match the gravity of what's happening. >> So, Tony, getting back to that Saturday. Um, >> sorry about the mixed up. >> That's okay. That's okay. Hey, we just want that's why we're here to make absolutely sure. >> Absolutely. >> So on Saturday specifically, um when you talked to her, did you think she was just playing around about having friends over? Was it like, "Hey, I got pizza. I can call over everybody." Or was it like, "Hey, this is >> this is going to be for my friends that are coming." >> Excited about I mean, she was a little, you know, oh, we're going to have a pizza with my friends. Good. >> Honey, did it sound like they were really coming? Was something she'd already planned? She said she was waiting for >> Okay, that's what we're trying. Yeah. >> Okay. So, she expected somebody to come. >> Yeah. She was expected friends or whatever they were. >> Okay. >> She didn't say what time that was going to be, but it was going to be >> I was at I was at just a little bit after 3:00, wasn't it? When I left there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Probably Saturday night. Then >> did she say Friday? >> I keep saying Friday. I don't know why because I had Friday on my calendar. >> Yeah. Oh, that's all right. >> I'm sorry. >> That's all right, >> sweetheart. Did she say friends or friend? >> I I really can't put that down. Okay. >> Okay, that's fair. >> Okay. >> So, my understanding is that you might have seen her at some point in time recently. >> Is that correct? >> The only one I brought when I delivered the pizza. >> There was something about someone seeing her in a car. >> Oh, when she come by, I was outside and she kept somebody blow horn. I turned around and was over. She give me the thumb. >> What What day was that? >> Saturday. Not now that I've been corrected. >> Yeah. [laughter] Okay. >> No, Friday. Saturday. Okay. So that was Saturday after you had dropped off the >> after five. I was outside. >> Which direction was she going >> that way? >> She was going down toward Piedmont. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And it was a person on the other side which you can't tell whether it was a he or she. I don't know. >> Okay. But there was definitely one other person in the car with her. >> Yes. >> Oh yes. >> So she drove by, honked. >> Yeah. >> And there was definitely a person. Did the other person wave? >> Huh? >> Did [clears throat] the other person in the car wave? >> No. >> Okay. Meanwhile, the autopsy is completed and whatever uncertainty remained disappears. The coroner finds multiple fractures to Karen's skull. This wasn't a knife driven attack. The injuries suggest something far more violent, like a small hatchet or an axe. The coroner also estimated that Karen had been dead for at least a week before she was found. During the examination, the coroner notices something small but potentially critical. It turns out Karen was keeping track of her steps using a Fitbit. And now those steps may explain her last moments. Now on my Patreon, watch the interrogation of a father accused of killing his baby. The detective snaps and starts hitting him on camera. See the full video at patreon.com/strangerstories plus. She uh let me ask you this question. She used to wear this thing called a Fitbit. >> Yeah. >> Are you familiar with those? >> Yeah. >> Um >> I know she wore one. I don't know anything about them because I'm not very computery. >> She frequently wore that >> all the time. Yeah, cuz it was newish. >> Okay. Um did she wear any other jewelry? >> She had a diamond ring that she wore. >> Okay. >> There's always a possibility. >> Oh, somebody's going to kill somebody over tummy. Well, you never know. >> Sadly, the brains are gone. >> Sadly, we see >> everything and we we we see the worst of people sometimes. And uh >> you have, >> you know, it's kind of tough to to wade through it all, but that's why we're here asking all these weird questions because we're trying to get to the bottom of it for you and your family. >> Um >> please do. >> I'm trying to keep my mind busy otherwise I'm going to be in pieces. >> No, no. We got to take one day at a time. and one thing at a time >> because your neighbors, her neighbors, excuse me, have a lot of video cameras around, >> but I don't know when this happened. >> Oh, they do have video cameras. >> They do, but I need to figure out when >> this all happened. So, the Fitbit may be able to tell me something. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm going to include that on on here. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You have my business card. >> I will be in touch with you. Yeah. >> Okay. If you don't hear from me, please call me. I get I get very very busy sometimes. Um but it's >> I wonder why. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But you know, it's one of those things. Call me, stop me. >> Uhhuh. >> Tell me, hey, I'm here and I will talk to you any time of day. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I gather I don't want to know how she died, right? >> Um probably not. Not right now. >> Okay. >> Um she died at the hands of someone else and I think >> Yeah. That's the best way to put it at this point. >> Yeah, >> I'm going to try to do my job to the best of my ability. We're pretty good at doing our jobs. Um I I I think we can figure this out. It's just going to take us a little bit. Okay. So, I promise to you that I will do everything I can to find the people responsible. >> It will be nice. >> That wish doesn't age well because the police didn't have to look far. >> I got him. Yeah. >> Someone take over voice on my left. >> All right, I got it. Sir, San Jose police. Come over here. >> Oh, you bet. >> Hi. >> Hey, come over here. >> What's going on? >> Let me see your keys. >> All right, turn around. Turn around. Turn around. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. >> You're being detained right now. Okay, what >> for everybody else? Uh, >> okay. >> No weapons or anything on you, sir. >> No, I got a radio in my my wallet. >> Okay. >> What's cooking it? >> Um, the case officer here is going to explain to you what's going on. Okay. >> Okay. >> We'll have him I'll talk to you here in a second. >> This is a I don't know. [laughter] On September 25th, 2018, Anthony was arrested by a covert response unit and taken to the police station. This decision was built on CCTV footage, timeline discrepancies, and most critically, Fitbit data obtained days earlier on September 20th. >> All right, here's the good part. I get to take off these handcuffs. >> Okay, whatever you got to do. That's one. I go. [laughter] Did it Did it bruise up a little bit? >> It will. That's not it. That's okay. >> You'll be all right there. Nice and loose. >> I've had bruised before. >> Sir, can I get you some water or something? >> I appreciate it. >> Okay, I'll get you some water. >> Okay, >> there you go. >> Thank you. >> Go ahead and you can have a seat right over there. Actually, >> that sounds good. >> Yeah. And then uh we'll be right back with you. Okay. >> You bet you. >> All right. Have a good one. >> You too. Thank you. >> All right. I'll get that water for you. Okay, just hang tight. >> Tony, >> come in. Hi. >> How you doing? Good to see you. >> What the hell am I doing here? >> I'm going to explain it to you shortly. >> Would you like a cup of coffee? >> No, I do not. No. No. One cup of coffee in the water for me. >> Okay. No more. No coffee. >> No. No. That's it. >> Okay. >> We're going to come back in. We're going to talk to you here shortly. You don't want any coffee. You're okay with the water? >> I had a sip of water. >> You're good. Okay. All right. Perfect. Right back. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. What's going on? Could that blame me? Are you kidding me? >> As he sits alone in the interrogation room, Anthony whispers something that immediately raises eyebrows. That's the case. On its own, it could be dismissed. People say strange things under stress, but this has already raised a red flag. >> You come in, >> Mr. Yellow. >> Yeah. >> Tony. >> Tony, >> how are you? Could be better. >> Could be better. I don't know what the hell's going on. And I said, "Okay, I'm going to find out." >> We are going to find out here. Here's one of the things that I need to do. I need to fill out this interview sheet. Anybody who comes in here, we need to fill out one of these sheets. Just has some basic personal information as far as birth. >> It just has this basic information like uh name, birth date, that sort of thing. Okay. IEL is spelled A I E L L O. >> Very good. You graduated. >> Are you a junior or anything like that? >> A junior now. >> Okay. Uh, let's see. How tall are you? >> Well, I used to be 5'1. I lost one. Five. >> That happens to all of us as we get older. So, you're about 5t tall. >> You got a long way to go when you get old. >> Oh, I'm still shrinking. [laughter] I'm about five. >> Uh, Tony, have you ever been arrested before? >> I don't even know what it is having handcuffs on me for any reason. I've never had not even a speeding ticket. [laughter] Well, >> I take it back. Many years ago, I had a ticket while I was parking San Jose San Jose first street >> when you pay $1. Remember, >> you remember that? You get a you get a parking ticket, you pay $1. >> Yeah, >> I remember that. >> That was a long time ago. >> This is not a situation anyone imagines when they hear the word interrogation. There's a 90-year-old man sitting across from detectives being asked to explain a homicide. Hey Tony, I'm going to have to read you something here, but I want to do a close and make sure if you can't hear me, you can at least see it. I bet you. >> Have you ever heard of uh Miranda? Miranda writes. >> Okay. So, I'm going to read you some stuff and I want you to listen to and you can read along with me. You can read English, right? But >> a little >> a little bit. So, we'll just uh I'll I'll read it out loud to you and then you can kind of read along and then answer the questions. Okay. These are called your Miranda rightites. Okay. Cuz you're in in here with us. We're asking you questions in your >> Absolutely. >> You got you got brought in in handcuffs. So, we have to go through this. >> Okay. Cuz you're considered in custody. So, okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. You ready? So, if you can read along right here. Can you see it? >> No, I can't see that. >> Can't see without your glasses. Your head back. >> Read it to me. It's okay. >> You have the right to remain silent. Do you understand? >> Do you understand that? >> I understand that. >> Okay. Does that all make sense to you? You understand it? Okay. Your Miranda rightites. Okay. I've been I've been guilty of something. >> No. >> What do you mean no? You You give me a >> Well, because you're in here with us and we have to read these to you. Okay. >> Anytime you get brought in in handcuffs and you're being talked to by the police and you can't leave freely, we have to read you that. >> Yeah, totally. >> Okay. So, I just wanted to make sure that >> we get through that. >> Okay. >> Well, hey Tony, the reason why we're here based on what we learned, we we kind of wanted to run down the last time that you saw Cara. That that's definitely one of the keys that we want to talk about. Now, my understanding is you saw Karen on Saturday the 8th. Is that correct? >> Saturday, right? >> Okay. Can you kind of back up and kind of tell me what happened that that led you to going over to her house on the 8th and seeing her? >> Yeah. >> I recall we we had a talk before and you said that you made a pizza. >> Yeah, I brought him a pizza and I brought him a a quart I mean a quart of a cookies. >> What kind of cookies were they? And it's cookies that I make homemade >> like biscati type. >> Yeah. But this love like this with a >> the squish. Okay. The hard biscati type cookies. >> Yeah. >> Uh were they in a box or anything? >> No. In a quart court quart container. >> Like a ziplock. In ziplock. That's it. >> Thank you. >> That's all right. >> A parked. I picked up whatever. The gate was open. >> So when you got there on Saturday, what time do you think you were there that Saturday? I don't carry a watch. >> Okay. Do you have any idea what time it was? >> No, I don't. >> So, when we talked to your wife earlier, she said she thought it was around 3:00. Is that about right? >> I can't answer that. >> Okay. So, you don't know. >> Did you only go over there one time that day? >> That day? Yeah. >> Just one time. >> One time only. >> Okay. And which car did you take? The Jeep. >> My wife's car. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Toyota. >> How long do you think you went over there for? >> How long you think it was there? >> Yeah. I don't think the what can I say? I mean 5 minutes or 6 minutes. >> Five or six minutes. >> 7 minutes. I I you know. >> Okay, that's fine. >> I don't like my watches. I know. I get it. >> Now, the first time we talked, you you talked to us about seeing her later that day. What time do you think it was that you saw her? >> I I got that that time when I when I somebody blows the horn. I was in the corner of the house doing some trimming. Face that way. >> Which way? The noble side or the mirror Vista side? >> Down the other way. >> So the noble side. >> Yeah. In other words, my back was towards the street. >> Okay. >> When I heard the horn, I saw this white car, but not the whole car from from the windshield before the windshield up this way. I didn't never got to see the front end of it. Somebody went And that was it. >> And I thought it was looked like it was Karen and somebody next on the other side was somebody sitting there cuz I saw at the back of another head person in other words. >> Okay. So there was two people in that car. So did you're saying that they honked at you? what they hunt at me or whatever they did when thumb up because I got I figured could have been Karen that I bro the beads and all that you know. Yeah. >> But then right after that I seen a family coming up the sidewalk coming from 7-Eleven I guess and they were eating ice cream or whatever. I don't know. So I don't know if the person will hung to those people over there or they hung on to me. I get a lot of that because I've been there 50 years and every time I turn even even every day if I'm outside somebody goes hi to >> But on on that last time that we talked to you you had said that you saw Karen though >> it looked like Karen. Yeah. To me it looked like Karen. >> Did it look like Karen or did it look like Karen's car? >> Her car was white. >> Okay. Did you see the driver? >> The driver was a female. Was it >> to me to me every time I see a car white my mind is that's Karen. >> Did you see Karen driving the car? >> Well, I can't really make sure that was her. It was just a short short uh would I say almost past my house. >> Yeah, >> cuz I was near the corner already. By the time I turn around, when you're that age, you don't run very fast. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> So, the car passed fast. >> Yeah. >> Fast. The first major contradiction appears almost immediately. Anony's story about seeing Karen drive by and Wave starts changing and nearby CCTV cameras don't capture anything close to what he described. This isn't an aggressive interrogation, but it's something more effective. They let him talk and they let the silence do the uncomfortable work. While these stories shift, another process is already underway. A search team is executing a warrant at Anony's house. >> Hey Tony, I wanted to step out and I wanted to ver verify some things with some times and what have you because I didn't want to come in here halfcocked. I I wanted to kind of understand um have you understand what we found. So, one of the things that I wanted to let you know about was some video camera footage that was found. Um, fortunately for us, Karen Street has a lot of uh video cameras out in front of houses. >> There's one in on the street that shows your car parked in the driveway. Now, the first time that it shows is right about 3:13 on the 8th. Would that be consistent with you the time that you believe that you got there? >> Saturday the 8th. >> You know, I don't know. right off the watches. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> If that's what it shows, >> it it shows it shows a dark gray car parked in the driveway and it's the same shape model as your wife's cuz you drove that car over there, right? >> All the time. >> So, I was looking at it and it shows 3:13 in the afternoon on Saturday >> that I got there. >> That you were there. Okay. It also shows that car leaving at 3:33. Okay. So, you're there for about 20 minutes. Same car that same day that you said that you were over there. So, that was at 3:33. Now, I'm no I'm no math wizard, but that tells me you were there for about 20 minutes, which is fine. >> Like I said, I haven't too. I don't >> Okay, but you would agree with me when I say nobody was with you. >> You left. She walked out to the door with you and closed the door and you walked and you left. That's consistent with what the video shows. That's all fine. Do you know if Karen wore any jewelry? [clears throat and cough] >> I don't. >> Do you know if Karen wore a watch? >> I don't. >> I will tell you this. When we found Karen, Karen was wearing what's called a Fitbit. Do you know what Do you know what a Fitbit is? >> Okay. A Fitbit. You've probably heard about it. It's like a watch. It has the same functions as a watch. It tells you the date and time, but with technology and the way it's working today, a lot of people want to try to stay fit and stay active, right? >> Oh, [ __ ] >> Okay. Well, the Fitbit is designed to monitor your step count. You ever heard about like step counters, a pedometer, something that that counts your steps >> as you walk? I heard about it, but uh >> Okay. Well, her Fitbit has a step counter built into it. >> Oh, nice. >> And it also has a heart rate monitor built into it. >> Oh, that's better yet. >> Not bad. >> So, they've got pretty good technology built into them. Well, when the coroner did Karen's autopsy, they noticed that she was wearing one. >> Good. >> When they pulled it off of her, we could see that the battery was still working, >> which is good because that means the data is still there. When we got to a point in the investigation where we were trying to figure out what happened to Karen based on what you had told us, we took that Fitbit and we actually had it analyzed. We had it analyzed for any movement that occurred. I will tell you this that the movement stopped on the 8th of September, that same day that you went over to visit her. >> Mhm. >> Okay. I'll also tell you that the heart rate monitor indicated when she passed. >> Oh, >> the heart rate monitor indicated she passed at 3:28. >> And I was at 3:28. >> You were there at 3:28. So Tony, this is this is kind of my concern. Um, you were there at 3:13, you left at 3:33, but her heart rate went to zero at 3:28 in the afternoon. We need to know what happened. What can I tell you? I don't tell you anything. If I was there that long, I don't remember. That's it. I have an own answer. >> You don't have an answer? >> No. Why would I have an answer? >> Well, I guess my main issue or main concern is is that you left after she was already dead. >> Huh? >> It's not lost on anyone how unusual this looks. But murder doesn't come with an age limit. Because based on the information that we have, and I'm not blowing smoke up your butt, you know, you're you've been around the block long enough to know, you showed up at 3:13. The Fitbit or the little heart rate monitor showed that she was deceased at 3:28. You left at 3:33. That's chronologically. >> Makes me guilty. >> I'm not here to determine guilt or innocence. I'm here to figure out >> I'm the guy that I'm guilty. >> Do you see the problem with that? >> Do I see your problem? What can I say? I don't know what to tell you. >> Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out, Tony. >> That's something I would never do in my lifetime. Never. I won't think I do a thing like that. >> We're trying to figure out what happened to Karen. >> You left after she was already dead. Why would you leave after she was already dead? >> No. >> You've already told us before that you were the only person there. >> Yeah. I know. Not room. >> Oh, not that room. Yes, you bet. You >> So, what happened to Karen? >> I have no idea. >> Tony, I don't have an answer. >> I want you to understand something. Maybe there's there's always reasons for things that occur. I get it. Okay. >> A lot of other deaths. >> You might have loved her to death, but whatever you did led to her death. >> Not me, my friend. Never in the world I would think I need something like that. Never. >> Tony, she was dead when you left the house. We can prove that. >> Not when I was. Unfortunately, that phrase does describe the outcome a little too accurately. This is not the kind of phrasing you want to workshop in a murder case. >> I didn't do it. >> I have a couple of I have a couple of different theories here, >> okay? >> As to why. >> Never. Never. Never. >> Okay. Well, hear me out here. I have a couple of different working theories. One is you needed it for money. >> One is what? you were involved in this for money. I don't think that's the case. I think you guys are doing >> I think you guys are doing okay. >> We are. >> My main concern is the second possibility. You know, you're kind of a spry guy. You're in good shape. Still go to the gym. Um your wife is elderly. >> Yeah, she's >> she's in a walker. >> 92. >> I don't know. You know, maybe you're just over there looking for comfort. I don't know. Because after talking to your wife, because >> the guys talked to your wife, the other investigators did. They talked to your wife and she remarked that you rarely go over there. >> She what? >> Remarked that you rarely go over there, but for some reason today you brought her or that day you were on her pizza. By the time you would have gotten home, parked your car in front of your house, she was already deceased. She was already dead. She had been killed. >> There could have been somebody in the house. >> But Tony, you were there. You were physically there in the house at the time. >> I mean, hiding in the other room or something after [clears throat] I left, whatever. Okay, Tony, you're you're missing the main concern that I have. You are inside the house when she is dead. And what was she do? Did she cut any of the pizza at all? >> No, pizza was already cut. It >> was already cut. So, she didn't take out a knife and try and cut it or cut the cookies or anything like that? >> No. >> Did they ever find cookies any place or anybody knows what happened to the cookies? >> We don't know. There were no cookies there. >> Oh, but I do. >> I know. I brought them. >> Did you take them back with you? >> Oh, no. that. >> Okay. >> I got more cookies. I don't know what to do with it. In fact, I had a little trick for you guys this morning. I thought you going to show whatever, but it's okay. >> Well, you made some more cookies. >> I don't make them every day. That's a lot of work. Maybe once a month or every other month or whatever. >> There's a violent death on the table and somehow baked goods keep fighting their way back into the conversation. While we're still on this topic, the cookies were never found inside the house, which makes us wonder why even lied about bringing cookies in the first place. Maybe the cookies were supposed to be a character reference. Like, see, I'm not a threat. I'm the guy who shows up with baked goods. Unfortunately, imaginary cookies only make you imaginary innocent. >> Here's one of my concerns, Tony. You are 90 years old. >> Mhm. >> You've been around and you've seen a lot. I truly don't know who you are. I don't know what you're capable of. Here's why I say that. You've been around longer than a lot of our systems maintain records. I don't know what type of contact you've ever had with the police, if anything. >> Well, I know a lot of police department. I used to know the blackboard, the chief. I did bodies for him and whatever. But >> yeah, I saw that you had a concealed weapons permit back in the early 60s. Had one up until 197 something 777 something like that when you were a grosser. That's what the paperwork showed. Um but I can't tell what happened before that. All right, Tony. I'm going to leave you here. Have some water. Um I'm going to step out. I'm going to talk to Sergeant Martin. Um, I I I can't help if we can't get to some form of truth. >> Well, I can only tell you what I know. >> Okay. >> I don't want to tell you any other story about No. >> Like I said, I just want to get to the truth, my friend. >> That's all I know. You already know. >> All right. >> I'll be back in in a couple minutes, please. This might be the last thing you'd ever see in an interrogation room. A 90-year-old homicide suspect exercising. The one thing he doesn't exercise is his right to stop talking. While Anthony is being questioned here, a separate conversation is happening elsewhere. Adele is speaking with officers at her home and she introduces a detail that no one was expecting. Adele explains that she helped wash blood out of Anony's shirt a few days earlier. Apparently, he cut himself while slicing a lemon. It may sound harmless until you pause and picture the amount of blood required to justify laundering clothing. Come in. >> How are you, Tony? >> I'll give you a check. A hot woman. >> Thank you. That's all right. Hey, Tony. I just uh I talked to some of the folks that are out searching your house right now. >> Oh, good. I found some stuff that was kind of concerning. You have a clothes hamper there. >> Huh? You have a clothes hamper at the house. >> Hamper? >> Clothes hamper where you put dirty clothes. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Um, they found a shirt real similar to the one that you're wearing now, except it's doesn't have as many stripes in it. It's got blood all over the front of it. It's this one here. >> Yeah, that's your shirt in your house. Here, here's the other problem. Um, in that same hamper, there's another white t-shirt. Looks like the same t-shirt that you're wearing there. >> Yeah. >> That you're wearing right now. >> See this blood spots on the front? They've already tested it. They already tested it. >> Blood spot there. >> Yeah, they already tested it and they said it came back as blood. How did that get there? >> I have no idea. >> Tony, that's your shirt. shirt. It's the same t-shirt that I can see peeking out over the top of your >> I have no idea. That's her blood. My blood or what? >> That is blood. It's blood on the shirt. >> Whose blood is it? >> That's what we're going to find out. So, here's why I'm asking you a very important question. >> A lot of times I get caught and chopped and all that. >> Yeah, Tony, I get that because I get the same point. >> But, but here's the problem, Tony. >> These are little teeny tiny spots all over the shirt. This shirt apparently has the same spots on the front. Now, given what we know and given the splatter that we saw, I don't think you've seen these yet cuz this just came in hot off the press. Those spot patterns are probably the same spot patterns that we see at the scene. Now, here's what's going to happen, and I want to make sure that you understand this. These blood spots on these shirt, they tested presumptive positive, by the way. Um, they're going to be compared at the Santa Clair County Crime Lab. There was blood taken from your stepdaughter. >> They're going to compare the blood on that t-shirt with your stepdaughters. And here's what's going to happen, and I want you to understand this, cuz these people are really freaking smart, okay? They have more degrees than I have fingers and toes. They're probably going to come back and say, "This blood looks like Karen." I would venture a guess based on what I know. But here's your story, and I want you to understand this. I don't know what happened. She walked me to the door, but yet there's a t-shirt in your clothes hamper, your dirty clothes basket that's got her blood on it. How are you going to explain that? Don't shake your head. You got to tell me. >> I can't tell you. I don't tell you. I don't why do I got blood in my t-shirt? >> Tell me the truth. Tell me what happened. That's going to come back. >> That's fine as >> Tony. Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you? >> I do. I do. >> I mean, that's major. >> I understand what you're saying, but that blood on my t-shirt. >> Yeah. >> That I am. >> And it's also on your shirt. >> Your outer shirt. the same style that you're wearing there. And it's in your dirty clothes hamper. >> I didn't uh do it. >> Well, who did? >> I Tony, are you trying to protect someone? >> No, I'm not trying to protect anybody. >> I'm saying [clears throat] the truth. >> Is Adele involved? >> Dell? >> Is she involved in this? >> No. Was she with you in the house? >> No, of course not. I went alone. If you didn't do it, who did? >> What a question. How can I answer that? How do I know according to that? Plays me that I was there. >> Tony, you said that you were earlier you had said that you were uh financially pretty stable. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is it true or not true that back in 2016 you were denied for an equity loan? Is that true or not true? >> I've come again. >> Were you denied for a home equity loan in 2016? >> Yeah, because I request too much. >> You're requesting too much because you owed too much. >> Yeah, that's right. That was according to my income. I wouldn't be able to cover the payments out of it. >> Mhm. >> That's how that works. So you saying that you are financially stable is not necessarily totally truthful. Is that correct? >> What do you mean? >> I'll say it again for you. By you saying that you were financially stable, that's not necessarily true, is it? >> Well, we managed pretty well without any problem. We have pretty good income, both of us. >> Are you financially stable? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, >> we pay our bills. >> Why would you? >> Anytime. Why would you need an equity loan? >> What's good to have? >> Yeah, but so is a uh a whole fleet of shoes or 15,000 suits. Everything's good to have. >> But if you don't need debt, why >> don't that many shoes have that many shoes? That's okay, too. >> I a lot of good shoes. side that I just got rid of and give us a goodwill. >> But we're talking about money here and you don't want to take on more debt than you can pay. So why would you take on an equity loan or at least try to apply for one? >> Well, that wasn't me. Me and our we did it. >> But that doesn't answer my question. Why? >> Why? because we had uh my loan was higher than when we weren't pay off and I believe they said the bank suggest to get an equity loan to make a lower payment. So I think we to we took $100,000 payment and the loan [clears throat] was $70,000 I believe. >> Okay. >> And and the payment went down quite a bit. >> But we didn't need no money. We will manage what you all no problem. >> Was Karen going to cosign to help you guys out or no? >> No. Karen? No. >> No. >> The detective brings up a loan Anthony had attempted to take out. It's not a smoking gun they're looking for, but it's the closest thing to motive on the table. Quick heads up, there's a full collection of true crime inspired merch available now at stranger label.com. You'll find premium t-shirts, hoodies, hats, beanies, and more. Each piece designed with bold detail and a dark investigative edge. Head over to strangerlabel.com and check out the full lineup. Now, let's get back to the case. >> We just want to understand cuz all these things are adding up and it the picture gets worse the more we go through your home. The picture gets worse. It doesn't get better. It gets worse. It's like, hey, this thing shows Tony's responsible. This thing shows Tony's responsible. That thing shows Tony's responsible. That thing shows Tony's responsible. The video shows Tony's responsible. The blood in the sink shows Tony's responsible. What do I do? I can't even stand up and argue for you because you won't even tell me what happened. >> I have nothing to tell you. >> That's what I'm talking about. >> I don't have a thing to tell you. Tell me, where are the cookies? Where are the biscati? What' you do with them? Did you take them with you? >> I don't know. I don't know. I got a lot I got a lot of those. I don't know. >> Okay. Cuz earlier >> I'm not I'm not an Indian giver. >> No. Earlier you said, "Yeah, where was the biscati?" >> Oh, yeah. >> You asked us. >> Well, sure. >> It was an interesting question because we never told you we never found the biscati. >> No, you never did. But I did ask it up. I know. I brought the cookies there and I'm asking what happened to the cookies. >> Knowing that your daughter was killed, is it reasonable to ask me about a bag of freaking cookies? >> Well, there will be an evidence if somebody grab it and take it. >> So, the cookie monster did it. Is that it? >> Well, I don't know about cookie mustard, but you know, >> I'm just trying to cookies. I'll put them in the counter. >> So, was Karen murdered over a bag of biscati? >> I don't know. What do you want me to say? >> I I don't know. I wasn't there. I know they were there. I know I brought them there and I don't take them back. I would never do that. >> Why would I take the cookie? That's not the first time I bring the cookies. >> But Tony, >> lasagna or pasta, pasta, spaghetti, meatballs, or what have you, many times. >> This interrogation is starting to feel less like a denial and more like a deflection strategy built entirely out of baked goods. Apparently, cookies are safe. Cookies are friendly. Cookies don't stab anyone. Maybe he thought if he attached himself to something wholesome enough, the rest of the story would magically soften. >> I I I can't get past all the little white lies, Tony. I can't. >> Well, to you, they're white lies. To me, they're not. >> Fair enough. Everybody's got their perspective. I get it. >> I'm just trying to put together a murder of a 68-year-old woman that was most likely committed by you. [clears throat] >> I think you did. I think you did it. >> No way. >> I think you're responsible. >> I think you took something and you hit her really, really hard multiple times in the head, crushing her skull. I think you did. I think you're strong enough. I think you're able enough. I think you have the the present ability. I just can't understand why. reason in the world for me to go do a thing like that car. No reason in the world. Tony, I would agree that there's no reason for a human being to kill another human being. But sadly, that happened in this case. And the thing that ticks me off the most is whoever did it had the audacity to try to make it look like she had done it to herself. That to me is pure evil. pure evil. And that's one of the things I have a real problem with. >> Yeah, that's the major issue I have with this whole thing. >> I understand the way you feel about and what you have, but I didn't do anything. Okay. You are going to be booked into the Santa Clair County Jail as a prisoner. You are going to jail. You are not going home. >> Oh my god. Are you kidding me? >> I am serious as I can be. You are going to jail tonight. >> Oh no. >> So what I'm going to do is I'm going to fill out some paperwork and at some point in time once we can get a patrolman over here, we're going to have you transported over and booked into the Santa Clara County Jail. You're going to be booked for homicide for murder. >> You are kidding. >> Look at my face. Do you think I'm kid? >> You are going to jail tonight. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. >> Well, I have no say as far as that goes. >> That's correct. >> I'm here. The reason why you're going to jail is because there is no explanation for all these things. All these things that point to you being responsible. >> But you haven't tested that if it's our blood or not. >> We have what's called probable cause, Tony. And that probable cause is a set of facts of set of facts of circumstances or or circumstances that lead me to believe that you're responsible for the murder of Karen Navaro. I think you caved her head in. I do. I think you did some really evil stuff. >> No way. I'm not the kind of a man whatsoever that you cross my mind and things like that. >> Sadly, a human can do a lot of crazy things. >> Not this kid. Not this kid. >> Lovable man. Family man. What do you think, son? >> Okay. Okay. Wrong boat. >> Just hang out here, bud. >> Yeah. Can I talk to my wife? I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I don't know what happened. No idea. I have no idea. >> Right here without realizing it, he says the thing investigators have been waiting for. >> It could be rainbow. Investigators later locate a rain jacket with blood spots. By now, this isn't surprising. The secret is already out. By the end of this conversation, Anthony hasn't convinced anyone except for himself. It's during the search that officers find another detail worth noting. The home contains 16 firearms. That's not illegal on its own, but it is definitely unusual. Based on this evidence, a grand jury indicted 90-year-old Anthony Ielo on a charge of murder. However, he died in custody in September 2019 before his case went to trial. Because he died before a conviction or a quiddle, the charge was dismissed. The legal process ended with his death in custody. Thanks again for tuning in. 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