so follow me and take you to jail I'm just telling you what's going to happen okay if you have any questions of me whatsoever so I'm in jail all weekend yep in this video we show the interrogation of a man caught in a sting during the show To Catch a Predator while he tries to downplay his actions the chat logs tell a different story 2007 Kenneth Brinkman was the 43 year old auditing department manager of the gas station chain Speedway Franklin spent a lot of his time in gay chat rooms which was where he made contact with who he thought was a 14 year old boy named Rocky Rickman was very careful how he approached certain subjects but he was always explicit and enthusiastic when Rocky would bring them up and once Rocky wanted to meet with Brinkman while his parents were away from home Brinkman couldn't resist come on in man I just whacked my toe on the banister oh my gosh it's working the crap out of myself foreign law do you understand that yes or no yes you have the right to talk to the Lord and have him present with you while you're being questioned do you understand that yes not afford to hire Laura one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning if you wish do you understand that yes you can decide at any time to exercise these rights and not answer any questions or make any statements you understand that yes ready [Applause] make a seat watch your head getting in get your foot in there there you go slide your foot in good [Applause] and out there where you're arrested on 5K Avenue I read your constitutional rights from Miranda rights did you understand them at that time okay and you will verify that I did read them to you correct yes okay did you see a picture of this girl I think how old do you think by the picture that you saw oh okay uh I got some questions I want to ask you are you willing to talk to me yes okay I want you to be truthful with me okay about every push my glasses okay I don't want you to be truthful wasn't about everything I asked you about okay okay why did you come to the house out there on 5K Avenue today for tonight this morning actually it's supposed to be like 11 30. okay um well I've been chatting with somebody was a rocky I think maybe a week or so and um so anyway we started chatting tonight for Friday night they told me that his parents had went to Vegas and that he was home alone bored and um so anyway um you know we chatted about all kinds of stuff I mean sex I mean he was in a gay chat room you know and um so anyway um at one point we decided that we would meet up and I even mentioned you know I said that's fine I don't mind meeting up and chatting but I says you know and I asked him on different occasions if he was a cop or anything like that I mean I normally do Brinkman admits to chatting but says that he asked the decoy if he was a cop it is hard to understand the logic behind this kind of question because it isn't something that would be answered honestly so it serves no purpose but the fact that he even felt the need to ask shows that he knew what he was doing was wrong [Music] we turn it down with anybody that I'm chatting with so because I mean they can tell you that at 40 or 50 but you don't know that you know okay your screen name is what um probably I'm not sure if I know that person who are you coming to see today or visit overnight his name rocky rocky rocky AOL is America online what was the screen name that he used uh right now you've been talking to him for a week or something you don't remember well the reason I doubt is because I mean on AOL you know once once you start talking it just comes up automatically um what do you think once I look at it um okay how'd you first meet Rocky in the um Dayton men for men what's your first name again dating men for men yeah and that's a chat room yes when was that again thank you um it may have been last Friday but I won't swear to that may have been earlier earlier that week did you bring anything no that Rocky was or how old Rocky though I told you was before he come to visit him I thought he said is it was a concern because I mean it was younger than I am you know considerably younger than that I've got the logs from your chats okay and he told you he was 14 years old okay now was he 14 or is he 15. well okay so I have to say 14 if that's what my wife says okay [Music] what made you thinking that he was 14 years old I'm sorry what made you think that he was 14 years old okay did you just change any pictures or photographs of them oh boy um yeah I think so at the time we um when I sent him mine I said you know which I do anybody I'd send my picture to I asked me to delete it but I mean I have a professional job so I just always ask them to delete it I mean you never know if they do or not so did you have any phone conversations with uh Rocky when you were coming to see him tonight how many um one right before he called me um how long have calls were they I was just that one except for when I couldn't find the house what did you talk about each time um um you wanted to know what I was doing wanted to know if I was going to come and see him I said yes that was really good it was kind of a fake phone call you ever have any sexual conversations with him oh yeah when did they entail um well he told me about an experience he had with a cousin um and then he asked me that was the first conversation or the first time you ever really taught sexually I guess wanted to know if and I wasn't even on I was online but I wasn't at the computer and he wanted to know if that where to do my own and [Music] by the time I got back to the computer he was gone typically during these interviews the Predator will deny knowing they were speaking to a minor or pretend that there was nothing sexual about their conversations Brinkman freely admits he knew the decoy was underage he either doesn't grasp the severity of his situation or he realizes there is no point in lying and so tonight when we started chatting uh I told him that I said you know says hey everybody has you know it's cool everybody has their own I guess stories you know um about what went on with him and his cousin what did the two of you talk about what sexual sexually explicit things did you two talk about um yeah well he's he said something about what happened with his cousin would be cool with us what did you talk about sexually sexually yes um size and um that was really about it did you ask to suck his all right what did you come up here for tonight like I said the the end of the conversation was or even during the conversation was it his parents had loved to go to Las Vegas why did you come up here tonight I came up here just to meet and chat with the kids to have sex with him nope never discussed having sex with them tonight or any other time on these chat logs um I can't say that it was that it wasn't that we definitely talked about having sex no I mean we talked about sex but they just had sex with each other no Jungle Mania 5 46 p.m I love to have a guy come in my mouth but that wasn't talking about him I told you sir I mean this kid posed himself to you as being a 14 year old and that's the conversation that you're having with him well yeah but he was having the same type of conversation and he posed to you as being 14 years old well I didn't see any harm in that you know because it wasn't something we were talking about with us I don't believe it I mean it's just like the the the deal with him talking to me about his cousin I didn't see Jungle Mania tell me what's really going on here what's that oh boy the stuff oh boy when it goes in your mouth Jungle Mania oh now I never waste a load laugh out loud okay Jungle Mania would you like that I know that happened yeah because it's right here on the chat log now you're not being truthful with me okay yes I am totally truthful with me I feel that I am because I know I mean you're reading parts of that the whole conversation I mean it never really I never said that that's what I wanted to do with him you know it was it was the conversation that we were having fun I mean there was a there was a point where he was trying to get me to commit to something more than just coming and meeting and chatting with him and I said look you know I don't know first of all I don't know what his age was and look what the hell happened if he represented to you as he was 14 years old you didn't care if he was 14 years old you didn't care it didn't bother you that he was working here well it depends and you're carrying on these kind of conversations with what you believe as a 14 year old kid absolutely then you come up here tonight just a meeting absolutely and I do that with anybody's going to be online no is this the first time you've ever done this what done what met somebody from online no that's the first time you ever met somebody online or came to meet somebody online that you knew posed as a 14 year old boy absolutely the first time absolutely Brinkman falls back on the worn out lie that he was only meeting the decoy to hang out he attempts to make the investigator believe that the conversations he had with the decoy were perfectly acceptable and that he never intended to actually perform those acts with Rocky what made you do it this time he doesn't say his parents were in Las Vegas and he was bored they're carrying on these explicit conversations with a 14 year old knowing that his parents are not home and didn't expect to have any kind of sexual contact with him absolutely he even asked me to bring him beer and I said no carries McDonald's I came with no condoms no no intentions of um where do you live at again in Kettering right yes where's the computer at the located at to use communicate with with Rocky well that's it yeah it's in my apartment and you're not getting straight up with us no you're not do you look stupid you know you're 27. she tells you so tell me again what you came up here to do with him tonight I I came here strictly to me and chat with Rocky did you graduate high school yes sir okay I even when I couldn't find the house I even left five plus years and and how many times did you drive around that house tonight um I think four times before so I went down and come around the first time which I didn't know where I was at that point I think you're a hottie and then I think I won three other times you're telling me that you came up here just a minute after all this conversation with him about sexually explicit things about oral sex one in his mouth coming in somebody's mouth I I didn't talk to him why did you come to see him I came here to me to chat with him and that was it however the situation why don't you just chat with him online I was why did you come up here and chat because he asked me he said yeah the fact that was new in a conversation where he said something about it coming up or something I says well I don't even remember you asking me to come Rocky and he says oh yeah I did I says well I don't remember that you bring condoms and you have talk like this in college what do you think a jury is going to think story I mean if there was any talk about something sexual tonight between him and I it came from him and I says hey I'm coming to me and I asked him several times if he was a cop and he said no why would you worry if he was a cop well because of the age I mean the situation I'm in right now I mean I did nothing with the kids here's the way it works [Music] after you drove around several times 8 51 tonight okay 8 52 last night I'm sorry so are you horny that's you asking me yep Jungle Mania laugh out loud Jungle Mania good man does that mean yes oh at the same time no it's two different two different lines my point is you're talking about sex online to this person at school I'm not denying it I know you're not and why you're denying that you came up here and your intentions weren't to have some kind of sex with the 14 year old I don't believe I I and you have that right to do that I mean you don't know me anymore than I know you I just know how I I know how I personally am and if I was coming up here to have sex with me I'd have had condoms or something with me there's no condoms or anything in your car no not in your billfold no none anyway and your frickman uses the fact that he didn't have condoms to try and prove that he had no intention of having sex all that shows is that he didn't care about safe practices as a defense it is completely useless give us a consent to search your vehicle sure okay because that's what we're going to do do you have any explicit images of many children in your car or at work or at home oh here you got an old telephone number what's your uh is that your cell phone there is on my computer there's probably a few pictures of the people that sent me but I mean I don't know I can't tell you that you said you know what I'm saying I mean you could yeah do you care what the ages here I mean we've never we have never exchanged explicit pictures lots of laughs I mean that's Rocky and I never ever changed any type of nude pictures some more chat you guessed okay I don't know that's why I asked oh boy so what you doing Jungle Mania just cleaning the living room and what are you doing oh boy nothing at all really Jungle Mania cool oh boy yeah about as cool as cleaning Jungle Mania so do you have a nice right yeah but what were we talking about prior to that cleaning no I mean it doesn't matter what you're talking about prior to it you're asking him something sexually explicit correct right okay like your parents are going but that he was in that chat yeah does that make it okay if you know it's a 14 year old kid and you're asking how big he is or how nice it is I I did not realize that it was uh do I need to go back to this first page on this chat when you ask how old he is no I he's in the chat room you know and so that makes it okay talk is talk I mean hell they do it in high school you know I I didn't make it okay no if you're how old can you're right it's not okay it's not that and when I was his age I wouldn't even be talking about it exactly do you have any children no how if you did have a child how would you feel if they got online and was talking to somebody like this as a parent well as a parent my kids wouldn't be online I mean I've got nieces and nephews that are you know with teenagers and you know I'm constantly telling their moms hey why do you tell them that well because I'm in the chat rooms I know what goes on in those chat rooms but it doesn't matter that you're chatting with somebody that's 14 years old well I think the intentions were different I mean I know what my intentions are so am I well okay it's pretty obvious Ken no it's not yeah I know what I am and what is that I'm a man with a good heart the kid was lonely bored and that's all it was so that's why you ask him how big his penis was that has no that had nothing to do with that's all part of this chat well we've been chatting for how long it doesn't matter okay most of this chat is from tonight there was Chad earlier I mean I I a week ago the middle of last week because we chatted like two or three different times and each time you talk about sexually explicit things not the whole time but yeah I didn't say the whole time I said each time okay is it right I guess the way that he carried himself he would assume that on my end that bearing in mind he's 14 years right but I'm saying the way they he come came in and was chatting whether it's right or wrong I mean you know bearing in mind that he's 14 years old it made it all right for you to ask him those questions time that's giving me permission to search in any officer well but some of them I was answering these questions I guess I could have been rude and just say it's none of your business but when you ask him his penis size oh that's right you're just coming up here just to chat right so lead him in check yes it is very telling that Brinkman doesn't want his nephews and nieces online because he knows what goes on in chat rooms he realizes that they would be targets because they are exactly what he is looking for it makes his claim of only wanting to meet to hang out even less believable I'll be honest with you and again I don't believe your story you're not being truthful with me your body language tells me that I'm an investigator I've been 100 truthful with you on what what my intentions were for tonight that's just the way it is and I'm sorry that you don't believe that but I'm not like some of the other people that you may pick up on there that's just not me well let me tell you how similar in conversation your conversation is with other people on the internet chatting with kids that are this age it's very similar well okay it's very similar you're the ninth person tonight that we've arrested for this I know that when I meet people my age they think now I'm just giving you an example this is not someone you're able I know but when I do meet people my age they think that I'm gonna do anything with them and that's just not me so you ask somebody repeatedly are you horny and then you just show up at their house and just say I just want to talk that was just that was just in conversation that was that was not usually when we had if I asked you if you're horny what does that mean to you he's in he's in itself I ask you if you're horny what does that mean to you to me you guys came in here if he was horny and you say I wish you lived closer correct why only because he was an hour away you know during the whole conversation I mean you you're looking at you're looking at those two lines no I'm looking at more than two lines well I'm just saying though all we're doing is picking out certain excerpts from this right and try out your conversation that shows that you had ex sexually explicit conversation with him I did and I won't deny that but that doesn't mean that I came here to have sex with him give me your phone number please that that's my point is that it doesn't mean if the opportunity would arose you wouldn't have taken it absolutely not nope not in a heartbeat I just don't do it not too many people drive an hour at midnight just to talk to you what time are you originally supposed to been up here tonight to meet him in Maryland um I think it was 11 30. because it wasn't until I wanted to say 10 o'clock that I even agreed to do it I think I think he actually called me oh my phone's in my car but I think that he actually called me around 10 o'clock have you ever done anything like this before no what's the name why did you choose to come to Burke County that's where he was at did you tell anybody you were coming here other than who you came to visit no okay that's what you tell everybody in your chats that's where I am what are you working Speedway no okay um I manage the audit Department okay how well do you know him foreign [Music] oh boy yeah sometimes like a river oh boy do you Jungle Mania cool Jungle Mania oh yes oh boy cool hey would it be okay if I called you quick while I can okay that was that was Jungle Mania on the phone oh boy yeah if that's okay with you oh boy it's not if that's not okay oh boy I was just wondering Jungle Mania well better way on that Rocky oh boy okay okay Jungle Mania sorry oh boy that's cool I was just wondering since I do not since they're asleep oh boy no it's okay Jungle Mania laugh out loud oh boy you're still cool Jungle Mania they may hear you man oh boy and all their clear at the other side of the house oh boy it's a big house as the chat logs are read fragment keeps protesting and saying that these conversations didn't happen tonight they shouldn't have happened at all and they clearly show what his intentions were with the decoy laugh out loud Jungle Mania okay oh boy plus I use a calling card to call you so if and I mean if they do come which they won't all hang up and they can go no way to know it was you oh boy I can hear him coming down the stairs so I'd hang up anyway oh boy but it's up to you Jungle Mania sneak out for that that was a conversation not tonight it doesn't matter what are you asking him to sneak out to do oh I I know what okay I understand where you're coming from but you know there's that was like the first chat we ever had it doesn't matter okay okay come on Ken honestly you're asking me why I'm here tonight why I came up here tonight why are you chatting with him well why are you talking about sexually explicit things why are you talking about because that's where the conversation went which was 14 years right ball team who's your favorite player what them tell me why that the conversation had to be the sexually explicit conversation that you had with them rather than that about what's your favorite sport who's your favorite actor how's your grades in school I was just following his conversation but you're the adult I I agree with that why didn't you stop it when it got to that point why didn't you stop it so you know it was wrong and you did it anyway I guess at the time I didn't think any I did not see it as being wrong because he was in the chat room and it was just talk I'd like to tell the prosecute what did that lead to I can't do that that chat and that talk what did that ultimately lead to definitely led to more than what I ever anticipated where are you at I'm right here in trouble if you would have kept the conversation to something such as sports or whatever School you think that you'd be here tonight [Music] I think would I have met him I think so if the conversation would have stage Sports and not yeah I mean because I was dwelling more on the fact that he was born he said his parents were gone for four days did you think that was rather strange for a 14 year old to be gone or for his parents to be gone for four days and leave him at the house by himself I didn't really find it to be strange just simply because early on like a week ago when we were chatting the fact that you know he led me to believe that his parents kind of let him do what he wanted to do you know as far as I mean how he was online at midnight you know and I was like don't you have school well yeah and he said something one time he said something about his mom coming in and telling me to go to bed it's like well you probably ought to you know it's a good school you think his mom would have known about the sexually explicit conversations and would have ordered oh yeah we talked about that he said that his parents were computer stupid did that stop you from talking about that thing those things no I answered his questions wherever he let it I went you know I mean and he didn't lead any of it um as far as what do you mean by leader the conversations about sex you never brought up anything about sex you only answered what he asked you about sex well I think I mean one thing may lead to would it let you know can okay all right fine yeah I'm sure that at some point I I brought up something that he didn't Brinkman pushes the blame onto the decoy and at first denies that he was ever the first to bring up inappropriate subject matters the investigator points out that as an adult it was his obligation to shut down any conversation of that nature frankman was an enthusiastic participant and at no point did he try to stop the decoy or try to make him aware of the dangerous position he was putting himself in by engaging adults like that being a predator this is exactly the type of minor that Brinkman was looking for So What by what you're saying if if his parents were home you'd come up here anyways right because you were just going to talk to him right oh yeah Oh you mean if his parents were out yeah you'd just come up anyways because you were just going to talk right you weren't doing anything wrong I'm Rocky's friend Ken I've been chatting with him online I just won the meeting tonight yeah I mean if you're just gonna meet him tonight what point how many times do you have to meet you before you had sex with him I guess yeah I would have never had sex with him you know it's one thing when you're face to face and the other thing is is I probably would have never came and met him if his parents were here just in protection of him you know because he kept telling me that if his dad ever found out his dad would throw him out that his dad was totally down on gay people that's on that's what's in the law if I didn't stop you from coming up to scene tonight right after all the sex conversation well he said that his parents were gone you know and he's telling me what he wants you know that that he had had this has a relationship you know I've been there so that excited you I wasn't excited at all he wasn't not not in the way that you think I was how would you excited I was just being friendly I wasn't I mean I was not sexually excited about a fortune though how in the hell can I be sexually excited personally about a fortune I don't know you tell me I can't be that's why you carry on these conversations with us well it was an online conversation and I just seen it as a difference I see that differently you see no harm now not at the time you didn't say no psychological harm in talking to somebody posed as a 14 year old and talking this guy to your needle no I mean you see them in there all the time that makes it okay you talk about doing it why do you do that if you've ever had sex with her why would you discuss at your Channel maybe because you had intentions of doing it are you willing to sign a consent to search for your vehicle in any property that's in the vehicle yeah okay he's gonna take cups off of you long enough to find out okay times approximately 1 47 a.m it's going to conclude the interview you want to go it's right here trying to convince a jury that you didn't come up here and a half seconds foreign are your cups okay I don't seem uh let's check them back up which one's bothering me I would say turkey can't get your picture okay been charged with attempt attempted unlawful sexual conduct with one with a minor felony and take you to jail um that you'll get there you'll be booked in go out and make a phone call you'll probably be arraigned before a judge and bond set sometime Monday I don't know whether it'll be Monday morning Monday afternoon or whatever okay [Music] thank you as the investigator explains that Franklin has committed a felony and will be going to jail you can see the moment when reality hit springman up until this moment he thought he was going to walk out of that building and be allowed to go home now he's facing serious jail time and public exposure I'm just telling you what's going to happen okay if you have any questions of me whatsoever so I'm in jail all weekend yep I've got a good question for you you said you've never had sex before right okay how long ago did you buy those I'm gonna ask you one thing today do you think you can convince a jury that you didn't come up here to have sex with that 14 year old that both showing them these catalogs and stuff absolutely you think you can yeah regular basis or what I don't think so okay that may be I just know what my intention is I said my key word here is do you think that you can convince a jury you can't convince me okay foreign and then did you place your head right on that mat the other thing in your pockets again it caused me any money no you got any money on you no got any drugs no you don't know I'll be here table natural thank you step back bring your feet back towards me please now spread them a little bit okay you want me to just hang on the keys man okay buddy good job okay I'm gonna take these cuffs on you you place your hands on the wall one at a time okay sure yeah you let him know that we've got a sign to incentive search on that vehicle he says foreign pull that off for me it's not about it [Music] okay [Music] okay I'm gonna do another search okay you can have to keep your shoes off one at a time you need to have you pull your socks off turn them inside out one at a time replace them inside your shoes bregman has searched and his car is next as soon as all of the proper paperwork is filled out Breakman claims that there is nothing for them to find but he's hardly likely to admit to anything they will also be pushing to look at any computer he may have had access to to see if any other charges need to be made in your mouth is that all ready to go set your shoes down right in front of the camera right there I need you to stand right there okay again for your glasses as well for me please okay again face the other door okay go ahead and see right there in the chairperson chair in the corner here I'm sorry push that chair towards the corner all right what's your middle name James James are you a junior or anything no what's your mother's maiden name fast seven eight four three eight nine favorite 2163 okay is that all the mark where are you just gonna have a seat there it's in Indiana right what's your address right now 1264. Central apartment Avenue Kettering Ohio 45409 you have a home phone number 937 293 -2127 married single divorce single you have any kids no no what's the last great education you completed who'd you graduate from Northrop High School North what Northrop Northrop foreign [Music] your other attention thank you so I need your whole hand [Music] if you answering them I didn't make stuff up can you grab me his prank calling things this one here is everything I'm issuing you okay all this says is that I've issued this stuff to you and you're not going to damage any of it if you do I can criminally charges Kentucky Insurance The Anthem Blue Cross okay if anything should happen to you or you require medical treatment this is giving us the permission to charge your insurance company to take care of you okay I just means you sign right there all right go and grab your shoes down there Irish versus rice supreme court yeah I see that the bus should be bringing mountain right now this is a ringman Franklin appears resigned and his voice is flat and emotionless as he gives his information shortly he is going to have to call someone he knows and explain why he's in jail and life as he knew it is never going to be the same again Kenneth Brinkman was sentenced to eight months in jail and made to pay a fifteen hundred dollar fine he was placed on the sex offender registry for 10 years he is now no longer registered that's the end of today's video if you liked what you watched and want to support the channel hit the like button and check out my patreon link in the description thanks again for watching and I'll see you next time