Is that Ricky? That's the recap now. Okay. In this video, we cover the interview of a frightened witness [music] who has evidence about the murder of her friend who was killed during a drug deal. On January 9th, 2017, 40-year-old Mary Gray [music] went to the Holton Street apartment complex to buy cocaine from Ricky Stevens, a known drug dealer. Stevens was alerted by another person that Gray was an informant, and he then fatally shot her. Gray was a confidential informant for the police, although she was not working the night of her murder. Gray suffered from worsening mental health problems and was beginning to rely more and more heavily on drugs to help her cope. It has been suspected that the motivation for her death stemmed from a desire for retaliation for giving the police a list of known drug dealers. A witness came forward with evidence into her [music] friend's death and will be known for anonymity's sake throughout the video as Tiny. All right. So, as we talked about on the right here, you came up in the victim's phone. So, we just kind of wanted to go over everything that occurred yesterday um throughout just take us through your whole day. Um well, I was home all day yesterday. I ain't going nowhere. I watch TV. I watch everything. Um, she text me about Who was with you yesterday? Just me and my niece Tiffany. My mom stayed at her boyfriend house, so I didn't leave the house yesterday. What's Tiffany's last name? Really? I know Tiffany. You know Tiffany? I do. Unfortunately, she gets into trouble, don't she? Uh, I guess. Mhm. [clears throat] That's not what we're here about. Okay. All right. So, what Tiffany does is her business. All right. So, you were home with your niece, Tiffany. And tell me your mom's first. I know her. Okay. Um, what what all happened yesterday during the day? Nothing. We that was I watched TV with me and Tiffany and Holler Boy. We watched movies all yesterday. So I didn't even go out the door really yesterday. [snorts] Okay. And what what's your current phone number? The one that was in the victim's phone. [snorts] We text each other a lot. Yeah. So do you have any other phone numbers you communicate with or on? I probably call her from like a lot of phones, but [clears throat] lately I only haven't I may call her from my mom one time, but we really text a lot, but we did. Okay. So, obviously you've got a phone. There's a lot of numbers that come and go in there. Um, so that's why I'm trying to figure out what numbers you talk to her on that may not be. We We figured your your your main phone. That's the basic phone that we text on. And then you talk to her a couple times on your mom's phone. Any other numbers aside from my daughter phone? Okay. Hey, what's that number? I maybe Yeah, I may have talked to her on Tiffany phone, but I don't know Tiffany's new number. So, but I doubt if I talk on Tiffany. I don't think so. What's your daughter's name? She lived with you? Yeah. How old is she? 30. How old are you? 48. I say when you say you were home all day is on Holton Street. Mhm. And Kendra is your daughter. And then you said you had two sons on the way over. No. You said something about him trying to get a car or something. Yeah. Um I text Mary Saturday. She came and took us to Enterprise cuz he went to go check his car. That's his Malibu backed up in the driveway. Based on the amount of texting as well as the fact that Gray was willing to help Tiny by driving her when she needed a ride. It sounds as if the two women were close. Witnesses like this are helpful to an investigation, not only to get information that others might not be aware of, but also for insight into the victim's frame of mind and motivation. Distraught, Parker Bell fired a 40 caliber pistol into the floor, sending the room, which included several civilians, into a panic as people ducked for cover. his car tore up. So, he was trying to get a car. So, she took us Saturday to try to get a car. And you said your other son stays in Atlanta. Who is that? Did you see him for the holidays? No. Were you not on speaking terms or Oh, he just couldn't afford to come on. I got you. That sucks. Sorry to hear that. Who else stays there at the uh apartment B P208? Me. You say he's your cousin or nephew? He's my nephew. Did he know the victim? Yeah, he knew everybody in my family pretty much knew her. Just curious, how did y'all first meet? I went to the store, Don store one day and she was there and she just started like you know how you just stand at the store and you started talking and we just kicked it off from there. How long was that? I mean, you known her for a long time. I told maybe like [clears throat] it might be a more than a year or a year, but I I'm not I really don't know. But she had a really outgoing personality, was very talkative and friendly and everything. She was a very sweet person. Yeah. And I really have to say that about So you you already said you texted her a lot, right? Yeah, we text a lot. How [snorts] long how have you been texting her since you met her a year ago? Yeah, like cuz when we don't talk and my phone is the food stamp phone, so you know when it run out of minutes, you always could text. So that's why we text, you know, even if you run out of minutes, you can unlimited text. Yeah. Okay, that's good. So we did like texting. Uh, what kind of stuff was she into? I [clears throat] just know she smoked crack. I don't know. Like I really can't say, you know, we hung out. We did our thing and basically that was it. I don't know. I know her like you you knew that she did smoke crack. Yes. Was that the Was that the beginning of your relationship? Is that what it was kind of started out was about that? Yeah. Okay. I appreciate you being honest with me. the truth. That's all we're asking for. I know it's not a not thing, you know. I mean, that's the truth. Have a hard time, you know, but other than that, I mean, she was like a very sweet person. I have no life bothering nobody or she knew a lot of people over in that area. She knew. She knew people that I didn't even know that she knew. So, how do you know that? Because like a lot of days you can be sitting on my board. I see her truck go come in and out the project. I don't be in it. I don't be with it. But you know she knew a lot. She was projects a lot. Yeah. Really? How often would you like daily or multiple times a week type thing? Yeah. But she brought a crack there or something. Pretty much I guess. But like the people that she knew in the project I don't know cuz like I didn't deal with nobody in the project. So, I know people in the project, but like the guy that Dave was saying that um she used to see her come over by his daughter house and talk to some dude. I never knew that, but I know I used to always like sit on my porch and I could see her truck if it go down that side or if it comes in and pass or, you know, if it passed on the road, you know. Do you know if she was dating anybody in there? No, she was married. She's married. But I mean, was she faithful to him as far as anything? I believe she was faithful. Like, so she didn't have like a boyfriend in there? So, she was in there. She did her drugs and things, but like far as messing around with guys and stuff, right? I That's what I'm getting at. I don't think she So, the point of her being in Holton Street is to buy drugs. That's what I think. To your understanding? Yes. Okay. And how often would you see her in there? Well, just approximately. When we first start out, we see each other like almost every day. Then like when I saw her Saturday, I had probably had not seen her for like a week or two. Then maybe before that been like a week or two or you know like I know on Sundays and Wednesdays she don't come out cuz her husband's home you know. So we respect that you know um I don't know if he knew what she done. I don't know. But I just know like when she deal with a guy that I do know that she dealt with like if she went to them got money I mean got something or something. You know I can always that she will pay you. She might not come out today and pay you, but one thing about it, she's going to come and when she come, that's one thing I always stood for her to say. Surprisingly, Tiny is open and honest about her drug use. Many interviews are long and drawn out because they usually try to shield themselves, but this witness cuts right to the facts. This level of honesty also makes her a more reliable witness since it shows she is willing to be truthful about things that might be potentially damaging to herself. She going to give you money. Don't run her. Don't run to her house, you know, because she just wasn't like that type of person. You know, if you don't see her, that mean she either with her husband or not, she not out. So for now, not to go like run, you know. I always said that to stand up for her because that was And when she come, she going to give you your money and she'll spend money. You know, y'all ever smoke together? Yeah, that why I said we did our thing together. Yeah. Well, we're just talking to know that we used to go shopping. I just come hang out. I just she would call me crying some days just in like a bad mood and just want to talk you know just needed me to talk and we went through ups and down we cuss each other out and but that was like my home girl who did she mainly get from I don't know that I told you she dealt with a lot of people like I maybe can let her introduce her to somebody but she know like so many other people I was amazed to know a lot of people that she know she knows a lot of people she know people that I don't even know M she deal with people that I never dealt with. So I don't I don't know. What time did you first see her yesterday? I didn't She text me about I say about 9:30 cuz I was had just took a bath and I was going to lay down. She came by. She gave my niece a cigarette. She said she was going to see somebody named Ricky. She texted you around 9:30. Do you have your Do you have your phone with you? Was it home? Okay. But it had to be like between 9:30 or 10, [clears throat] something like that. So what did the text say? Um, come ride with her. And I said, "Where?" And she never told me where. And she was saying she was going to come out, but I when she came up, that's why I wanted to tell her that I'm on I'm on 77. So I can't ride with you nowhere. What? I'm sorry. I missed that one. I'm on seven. I'm on curfew. Curfew. 77. Yeah. I'm like, "What's 77? What's that?" Gotcha. So um but like even if I tell her um she'll tell me she come by my house she going to come anyways that sometimes she just come just come you know and like it [clears throat] was she considered you a friend. Yeah. And it was like late and I always be the type of person say like Mary go home you [clears throat] know especially like it's Sunday cuz you really don't come out on Sunday. So for her to text my phone it was kind of odd. So when she did I was like I said I really don't want to go nowhere cuz it's late and you didn't take your ass home. That's why I was assuming that she was going home, but she said she was going to see somebody named Ricky. She I don't know if she called him or he called her. What' she say about the going to see him? She said she was going to see Ricky and I said where? I think she said to the bottom of the pocket and I said I don't go to the bottom of the park. You don't? No, I'm scared at the bottom of the project. Why is that? Cuz it's rough down there. Is it really? But I just know whoever she was talking to before I left her before we departed. It was somebody named Ricky. I wanted to ask you, um, she's telling you this in person, like when she got to your apartment. Yeah. Or did you did she go up to your apartment or did you get out? I went downstairs. No, you went down to her. You texted her at 9:30. It might have been She texted you. She text me. She said, "She texted you at 9:30. What time did she actually show up?" I just kind of want to get that. I want to say maybe I don't know, right at 10 or I don't I'm not really You think she got there at 10? Yeah. And we stood out and talked for a minute. And I rolled out with her like to the end right there. I told her I said, "I'm not going." So she pulled out. She went that way. She pulled out and went up like she was going to I guess to the bottom of the project. Oh, she went down that uh southern road like if you come out of your if you come out of Okay. Thank you. That' be easier to say. She didn't make that up. Like you going to the next side of the project. Wait, if she pulled up to B 208 where you're at and then she's coming back out. Okay. Now we right here coming out. This is Holton Street. Okay. So, she went back up to Holton Street instead of using that little cutth through road inside. Yeah. She didn't go through the cut through road. Okay. She went back out on the Holton Street and then came back around to the top. Yeah. And then drove into from the top. All right. What time How long did it take to do everything as far as talk, smoke, cigarette, do what? I don't know. [clears throat] You mean just this was just last night. I said maybe 15 20 minutes. I mean I like really went on time frame. So like I say I I'm just guessing it's time but maybe like 15 20 minutes. We may be able to look in her phone and see what time she texted you. Okay. And then uh if like say it was she did get there at 10:00. So just assume she was there at 10:00. How long did y'all chill before she left? long enough to smoke a cigarette. At least I got my niece smoked a cigarette. I got the cigarette to my niece. So Mary had the cigarette provided came from Mary and she provided it to Tiffany. Tiffany. Tiny is very firm about the details she is certain she knows. She has no doubt that Gray went to meet Stevens. When she is asked about the length of time various actions took, she will not be pushed into giving a definite answer since she is unsure. This is actually a good thing because many people in her situation will offer a guess or allow themselves to be pressured into committing to an answer that might be inaccurate. When that happens, investigators can miss something vital by focusing on specific time periods or locations that might lead them to a dead end. So, this is the entrance close to Orange Avenue and the school. So, if you, you know, turned from Orange Avenue, you started coming up the hill heading towards like Floral Street and all that kind of stuff. This is the first entrance. This is [clears throat] the second entrance. Okay. So, she went this way. So, where do you live? You live I live in this entrance. You live in this building? Yeah. Right here. Is this the B building? I'm asking you if you turn into that first entrance. You turn in and then you turn in that first entrance. I live in the building like this A building. This B building. Okay. So, then you live right here. She came and met you and she parked in the like in here. Yeah. She like she didn't even park. She like pulled in like right there. And I got a cigarette and I came back and I got in like on the passenger side. Um, we talked for a minute and [clears throat] she turned around the crew like we was going to go out and I was like, "Mary, I can't." So you were facing She turned around and then you were facing this way. Coming out. Yeah. Like we going to come out and we came out to the stop sign. Uhhuh. She went left. You got out of the stop sign. Yeah. She went left. I turned a little bit and I got out like in the middle part like it's still on Holy Street but I was on Holy Street. Gota. So she went up this way. Yeah. North. Yeah. So, like going up to a floor street, but you didn't see where she went from there. You just What did you do once you got out of the car? Went back to your place. About what time do you think you heard gunshots? How much time do you think it elapsed? I really don't know. I mean, just if you had to estimate, and I'm not going to hold you to it. I mean, I I know what time we got the call, but I'm just trying to figure out. I was think assuming that let me see maybe 30 minutes 20 30 minutes but when I see that she didn't text my phone again I was thinking that maybe she had cuz I said Mary go home so I she say okay I'll see you tomorrow so I'm assuming that she went home cuz she didn't text my phone cuz once she go home you know we don't really text it I may have uh stepped out if you covered this um Why was she going to go see Ricky? I guess she did drugs. Did she tell you that? No, she didn't say she was going to get She just said she was going to see Ricky. I assume when she said Ricky at the bottom of the project, the first thing in my mind. You just met You just assume cuz you know she Okay. I just know whoever she was talking to somebody named Ricky. And you never heard of this guy? I know a Ricky. Who's [clears throat and snorts] a Ricky you know? But I don't know him like personally. I may be Who's the Ricky that you know though? He in the I see him in the bottom of the park. Do you know? I know he live um if you go like you going you know the flea market and the bike trail. Mhm. Marco San Marco. Villa San Marco. I know that about it. Is that the same one that serves in the bottle? I think he do. Now, maybe if I think I got his number wrote down on a piece of paper. Maybe if I saw the number, I might determine if that was him. Who? She has it written down on a piece of paper. No, I got wrote down in a um a tablet one day. Me and together, he gave us his number. We saw him at at the dollar store one day. Could you identify him if I showed you a picture of him? Yeah. How many times have you seen him? What' you say? I've seen him up enough to know that if I see him I mean I mean like right now if we just say we've been to the bottom of the project and if he's so you've seen him enough from the neighborhood that you know him on site immediately. Yeah. All right. So you know that he is Ricky that you're talking of. You mentioned Villa San Marco. This over near the flea market. What's he own? You know he lives there because me and her me Yeah, I mean I we ain't trying to hand the truth, you know. Hey, but just like, hey, there's only one truth. Okay, I don't know how many Ricky she knew, but like I said, I can tell if if I saw if I saw the number and it matched the number that What' you think? You think it was the same Ricky or totally different Ricky? But see, I really didn't even think about it because mirror knows so many people. So when she just said Ricky, I I usually probably would have been saying what Ricky or who. But when I know the mirror knows so many people, I don't I don't know. But then like after I just said now after thinking about I just know one Ricky. That why I say if I see the number I can tell if it was that Ricky that she was talking to because I have the number in a tablet. I jotted his number down. Let me step out for a second. Let me see if I can uh get a picture. I I don't I know. I think he just got out of um I want to say I think he got out of prison or jail this year. Last Tiny knows the alleged murderer on site and may also be able to confirm his identity by his phone number year like not long in 2016. Okay, I'll be right back. Let me look for that. That was my friend. I mean, it was really sad. And I I preached the hug out. We both in that drug world, but I got to the point where I'm really on 77. So what I thought I you know um but like if I see her out or whatever I used to always stress, you know, Mary, go home. Especially like if you don't have money cuz one thing I tell her, I say I don't bother these dudes about they do or try to take nothing or try to credit for them cuz I don't have MONEY TO GET HURT ME, you know? So I always just that's I'm not that type of person. I mean I won't do that but now she'll credit but she'll pay them. So she was known to credit them and get stuff credit from Yeah. She'll credit that was a common thing from her. Yeah. And she'll pay to make money. But that did that ever get her in any trouble? Like I said not that I was I just remember one time one dude had told her that she owed him some money at the store and some dude was like I want my money and she was like okay I give it to you Friday. Well, I assume that she played him because I never been around her and it was an altercation about cuz she always had money. So, I don't know. It It was pretty rough talking to her husband last night. I don't think he knew cuz like a lot of times he knew she got high. I'm sure. Oh, cuz like um that's why I used to be telling about the text and stuff cuz just like she'll text me, but it be like used to be weird because she be like she had to wait till he like out of the room or she that's what she always just tell me. So I don't know. I can imagine it was you know you never know what you know she's telling her loved one. See, that's what I Yeah, maybe he knew before and then she's just trying to hide it, keep it around. I think I want to say one time she said that he knew that one time she was on drugs real bad. And then like one day cuz I had stopped doing drugs. And then like me and her have to quit like seeing each other because she was doing it and I didn't want to do it. [snorts] But um she was like, "Tiny, what do you do to stop?" I said, "Mary, just got to get your mind off. we got to find other things to do, you know, besides getting high. I say, "Let's go look for a job or, you know, let's go do something positive." That, you know, that's what I always try. She said, "Cuz I want to stop." And I always It's not I'm sure it's not easy. No, it's a job. Yeah. But I always tell her that I would never be to the point where I'm like so scared of people now cuz I got my my children grown and my boys the type I don't want nobody to hurt them or hurt me or my mom or come down with my dope about dope and oh that was always my thing that I couldn't stand. So you know I would I always tell I don't credit from people when I was out there in the world. I don't I didn't never do that cuz I don't want nobody to see me and my kids out and come running me saying Tony I want my my money out you know I I didn't want to go through that. So yeah smart thinking about your kids first. Yeah. And my mom cuz I don't want nobody going to be on my mom crazy. They going to be on her to call the police on you know. Yeah. And I don't want you I got to get Oh my mom. So I How old was your mom? 60 that she just turned 69. Okay. She in good health. She pretty good health. Mary got to sew machine and um she met Mary hold her sewing machine. Mary out there trying to sew some [ __ ] for the grand lady or whatever. And um I said, "Mary, just please give get my mom back sewing machine." They went through it by the sewing machine. But my mom was like, I said, "Well, at the end of the day, you know, Mary was my home girl. You know, she might have done her little wrong things, but she had a heart to go." Yeah. You know. Yeah. And it's sad whatever happened. And I hope they find whoever anything I can do to help. What do you think should have happened to that person? Same thing. So, you put it in front of your face yet? That That's the rec. Okay, a Ricky that lives at uh Villa San Marco or whatever it was over near Stevens has been positively identified by Tiny. This piece of evidence greatly strengthens the case against him. The flea market. Um I don't want them to hurt me though. I'm scared cuz if they did hurt her. But you ever seen that guy with a gun? But they say everybody in the water party got guns. So I don't know, right? But I mean if you if you've seen him with a gun, that doesn't mean he's the one that did this. I never saw him with a gun. But um [clears throat] if the number match up to the number that we got, this is Ricky. What number do you have for him? I don't know about her. I just wrote it out and like if you take me home, I can go and get the tablet off of a a paper like where I was going to court before I got um on probation and stuff. And I told you one day he gave me a number and I wrote a number down in the tablet. Did you ever call him? I called him like a couple of times. Got some weed for him for my son. How long ago was that? You think it's been like a minute, but I saw him like I want to say last week I walked to the store and me and him passed each other. And what happened? None. We spoken. I went on to the store and he went on. But this is a dude that I know. Did you see him yesterday? I didn't see I don't go by the park. But I didn't see him like since that day when we passed the store. But that's the only Ricky that I know. I'm thinking and if it's if it's the only one Ricky number that's in Mary phone and it says Ricky, that's him. Mhm. Did she talk about like how much she was going to go get from him or is it like she have a bunch of money with her? Did she tell you that she's going to go get a she sack? When I when I like what she normally get like $100 worth, $20 worth? No. Yeah. She's 100 or more. She's paying money. All right. And presumably Huh? Presumably he served her before. Were you ever with her when he served her? I think we did. But see, he said three were together out of his complex one time. Yeah. But see, like we she type person that she would ride them. She would give them rides. I don't ride people. I don't ride people for one. You ain't going to give me no $10. I know they $10. Excuse me. $10 though and want to ride all the time. But Mary will ride. That's why I told to see Mary. If I call and say, "Mary, what you doing?" I'm giving such and such a ride. So I know like one day we picked him up and brought him to the project. I think one day he one morning I went to get I told I went get some meat for my son from him and I picked him up from there and I gave him a ride to the bottom of the project. Where'd he get down at? Oh by my house and walked down to the bottom. Oh, but I know where'd you pick him up at the apartments. Villa San Marco. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like in the car ride or anything? Did he ever make mention of having a gun or [clears throat] being armed? I mean, cuz he's a crack dealer. Well, if he said anything about it to you to try I never like saw him, you know, not because I really don't I just don't cross people. I just don't deal with him cuz I like I was telling him, I don't want nobody to hurt my family or nothing. So, I was always just kind of careful. But I ain't like really was his friend or deal with him. I just know we done dealt with him before, you know, as Richie. Okay. When you dealt with him, was he nice? Was he cordial? How did he treat Mary? Everybody Mary deal with treat Mary like they know Mary spend money. So they treat Mary like gold cuz they want to keep her coming back. She ever uh cross him that you know of? See, I can I know cuz you said sometimes that she wouldn't have money. Yeah. But they like and she wouldn't she they'll credit her, you know, like her she go to and they would front her to help me. And if she said she going to pay them Friday, I know like just say Friday come and they don't see Mary or they see me. They be like, "Where you home girl?" And I always be the one saying, "Well, if she ain't going to pay today, you know, you'll see her. Maybe she can come out because she had something to do while she was tied up." I said, "But one thing about it, when she do come, she always come and she going to pay to me money." And Rosemary, why did Mary want you to ride to go see Ricky? Mary want me to ride with her. Not just to go see him. I mean, if she come and she ride, just say like if she anytime she want to ride sometime, she'll call for me to ride with her. So I don't think I ain't gonna say it was just to go see Ricky cuz when she text me she just asked me to come ride with her and I said where she never told me where but I was saying once when we got in the car I I can't remember if he called her or she called him. I just know I said who he talked to and she said hey Ricky were you in the car with her when she tal called him on the phone and talked to him. Yeah, she she called and they had a voice. I can't remember if I know I think he told her to come to the bottom of the project, but I don't remember like she ain't saying. Tiny has had interactions with Stevens, but she doesn't recall him having a gun. She also heard him in the background of Gray's phone at the time of her death. She didn't say what I want to say. She didn't say like she I think she said where you at and I want to say he said at the bottom and and you could hear this coming through the speaker. Yeah. I hear her talking and I heard him say I could hear him say at the bottom cuz the phone was like it was loud. Yeah, it was loud enough you could hear through through the speaker. Was it on speaker phone or was it just loud enough coming through the earpiece? Just loud enough that coming through the earpiece that you get. Was anybody else in the car? She came up there by herself. Mhm. And she left with you and then you got out. Yeah. And like I say, it was like odd for her to come out cuz like on a Sunday she never come out, you know. So, I have a copy of the text messages that y'all talking from her phone and um if y'all got together, see what I think happened is y'all got together and would go down there and get some and that's fine. Our purpose here is not we're not the narcotics police. We're not here to get you in trouble. We wouldn't have I know. I know. But just listen to me for just a second. Um if you went down there cuz that's the way it looks based on this message here with what she was telling you that y'all went down there for a purpose of going down there to get some. And and that's fine. I'm not here to judge you. I'm not here to give you a hard time about it. I'm not going to beat you up about it, okay? I'm not that's not my style, okay? Uh, but it's important for us to for you to be 100% honest about Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, you got to meet her. If if if it was Ricky, anybody have phone basically if it she was going to meet them, whatever, they basically had to do with drugs. I I Yeah, I believe that 100%. I believe you're telling me the complete 100% true. What What I'm getting at is she she says to you that she has a young jet. we're going to get with and the money. She puts the money sign there is okay. So that would lead us wasn't him. I think whoever she called again because she talked to somebody else and they wasn't home. They had made it home. So I think that's why I want to say that's what made her call him called the boy Ricky. So Rick is not her main source. No, I told you Mary know a lot. Well, if you know Ricky and that ain't her main source, who's her main source? Who who else who else do you know that she was getting from? This is what I'm telling you. Mary deal with a whole lot of dope dealers, but I can't We got her phone. I can't say who. Okay. I can't say who just listen what he's about to say. We've got her phone. We've got other contacts in her phone besides you. Other contacts besides Ricky. Would you know any of the other people that may have been supplying her? Yeah, probably if I like see their numbers or something or a picture of them. Yeah. Okay. What about names? I probably know the majority of them. There's a lot of them I don't know. But the ones I do know, I can like put a name to they a picture to their name, you know. Well, I want to let you and her talked a lot. Okay. Yeah, we really And here here's what I'm getting at. I'm not trying to get you to like give up your source or or not like I'm going to go throw them in jail for sale or something like that, but if you know her secondary or third source and Reky, I know you know her primary source. No, simply tell me was this type of person. Just say like if Mary came to me and I said, "Mary, this man right here, he sell drug." But I always be let me go to him because I know him. I can if I take her with me and I go to you and have my drugs. Before I know it, Mer went by my bike and went over there a whole bunch more times without me being with her, you know. Um, I told you like the jit if if it was I don't know who it was because I didn't deal I don't deal with this. Do you remember that message her talking about? Yeah, I remember that. And that's when I said where if you see what I text I said where I think I said where where we going or where [snorts] So then how do you know that it was Ricky that called her on the phone? Cuz when I told you, I said she was saying, "I'm going to see." She said, "I'm going to call Ricky." So I I That's when she got That's when she got to your apartment. Yeah. When we got to the apartment, she called. She called him while you were there. She called somebody else and they was not there. I guess wherever they was supposed to be at. Who was they? The Git. And she didn't never say his name. She just said the J. Um, that's when I think after she hung up with him, I want to say she dialed his number. That's why I said I don't know if he called her back, but I remember her saying, "Where you at?" And I want to say he said, "At the bottom of the property." Since Gray had multiple sources for drugs and didn't seem to be particularly loyal to any one dealer, Tiny may not know all of them. She has freely admitted to the ones that she is sure Gray used. So it is unlikely she is hiding anything. But I like I said if it if she did talk to a Ricky like I keep saying this the only Ricky that I know that I know that she know. You know, if she know another Ricky, I don't know. Cuz I told you Mary deal with people that I don't even know. You know, sometimes she'll come pick me up. We'll go see people that she know that she met that I don't even know them. But this is the only Ricky you know. But that's the only Ricky. We got some other people that are in her phone. I'm going to go get pictures of them. Go get them and see if you know who they are. If I know him, I would tell you that I know them. But like I said, this the only person I know named Ricky online. I got a cousin named Ricky. He might be in her phone. 242 3436. What's his last name? Benjamin. But he was working. He still ain't want to sell those. Did he sell crack? No, he smoke crack. I'll be right back. All right. Yeah, but now like I say, um I can't remember. I don't know if she called him, but I want to say she got his number. Mhm. And I don't know if I want to say he call her back. And I remember him saying he was at in the project. This is Ricky. Ricky. Okay. I say and if that's if that's the Ricky that was that's the only Ricky I know in the project that's the only Ricky that like I said I think that might be my cousin Ricky but he don't take a cry but that's the only Ricky I know that sell weed cry how long do you think they talked to each other on the phone like a minute a minute or less than a minute and then she did they talk several times to each other did she like talk to once hang up and then call him back another time I think that I want to say I think when she d his number the first time I don't think he answered I want to say he called her but I'm not True. So I really can't remember. I just know I remember her talking to him. Somebody named Ricky and I for him to know I don't care about if um these drug dealers if I know them put the pictures to them. It don't matter to me if they know that I say I know them. That don't that don't matter to me. You know what I'm saying? Because what happened to her was was wrong as hell. You know it was worth them taking her life or no crack or whatever. So it don't matter to me. I just don't want to get hurt. True. I don't want to let it hurt me. That's just what I was scared about. I ain't scared about coming here talking and trying to help get whoever done this to her cuz that was my your friend. Yeah. And I [clears throat] I I really like I saying this the only person that I know. If she talk to a Ricky in our project, that's the only Ricky I know that was in our project. He be in the project a lot all the time. He catch rid who he hang out with. See, I don't know that cuz I don't I don't deal with them like on a go down there and see them every night and buy some. And well, I know again so I don't like I and by them I don't they younger than me and I just think they all crazy and I'm scared of all of them. So I like I always I did my thing my owner circle people that I deal with. They older people, you know, the same people I deal with. I don't mess with these young boys. I don't I didn't deal with you know but like a lot of them I met through Mary I told you I can see Mary don't see her for a week when she come back and I met tender people I don't even know them she was known for like giving people a ride to see a truck and say Mary where the hell you on say now watch you might look see we text a lot me and her text a lot we really did she used to be sitting out to her only only person can't talk to because she didn't have family up here, you know. So, yep. That's what her husband said. And she called me crying, said she about to kill herself a lot of time. She just called me calling me out. I be saying, "Don't do that. Just come over here." You know, we can talk about it. Nothing that bad. You know, messed up all her money. I said, "That man gave that money. Go do something. Go do what that man told you to do." She go spend and call me T1. She'll call me T2. What I supposed to do? I said, "Get your ass in trouble cuz you didn't do what that man told you to do." Tiny was very close to Gray and is invested in making sure her friend receives justice. She is concerned about someone coming after her or her family, but she came forward even though it might put her in danger. And that was wrong with Mary, you know. Oh, what's T4, by the way? Tiny. Okay. That's your nickname? Yeah, that's what people call her. That's what she put me. Probably got me in on her phone. Tiny. Well, I know we talked about that on the way over here, but that wasn't a recorded interview. That was just text chick or tiny. She call one three. Gotcha. All right. But I'll tell him it don't matter to me about me identifying if I know them and they in her phone and I know their number. I'm going to put a face to them. I don't care. I just don't want I just don't want nobody to hurt me. Well, and here's the thing. I was going to get to that. It's very important that this conversation is extremely confidential. Thank you. Okay. Because Just because we're showing you pictures of people don't mean they're the ones that did it. And why saying I don't care? I really help find [snorts] who done that to me. We're in the process of conducting an investigation. So just because I show you a picture of Ricky or these guys here doesn't mean they're the ones that did it. It just means that we're going through the process of the investigation. So don't go say nothing. I mean we're not going to go out and say, "Hey, we just talked to Tiny and Tiny told us blow up." Because so we would appreciate that you don't go out there and if I can help any way I can, I will help y'all. That's when we get back to your house, we'll take a look at those numbers. That's what I was going to say. It's just very important that you don't corrupt this investigation by going out there and saying you want me to his number. Yeah. Well, all of the whatever that's going to put your name out there, too. And we're trying to avoid that. I mean, cuz obviously they probably say on the police, which I don't it don't matter to me because I know they probably figure though if something happened to her. I knew y'all was gonna come talk to me because me and her hung out a lot. You know what I'm saying? Together. I think I was just not scared to come talk but just scared period because you don't know. I don't know who done that to her. I don't want them to hurt [clears throat] me or my kids. But if I kept find who done that, I definitely will because [clears throat] whatever she done, it was not bad enough for them to hurt her or take her life, you know. Okay. I don't know if she almost taught me to be with her cuz I almost would have been in that car with her. What do you think would have happened if you I probably would have been just like her because I'm telling you a lot of nights before I had on 77 if she one night she called me about like 1:00 I wrote I ride with her cuz she say she don't have nobody and she just wanted to ride and we would get no doper we were just riding she said because she don't have nobody and I always tell her that if she with me nobody's going to hurt her. So what what do you think she could have done that would have made somebody so mad to do that to her? I was thinking that maybe they tried to rob her because I know she always have money. I used to always tell her you got money. Quit going around these people by yourself. That's what I say. I say cuz you can think that you know this what I say black folks they will them young black boys out there they be on that Molly. They be on all that other [ __ ] I said you you can't trust them you know. So I'm was thinking that cuz I know Saturday Mary had a bunch of money in her. The thing that you let down right here she had money. How much money she carry around? Like a lot like a lot of money. A lot of money. Too much money to be. Does she work anywhere? What does she do? How does she have money? I don't know. How does she get it? See, that's what I don't know. I just know when she come around, she'll text me and say, "I got some or come ride me to go. We're going to go buy some." You know, I don't question her about she got money. She's being generous. I got a couple people here that I want you to look at and see if you've ever seen them before. And if you have, tell me how you know them. Okay. I've seen this boy, but I don't know him by Mary. I know him by another dude. My friend who I was going to get to um bring me out here. Who was that? Uh his name is Freddy. Freddy who? Freddy Moore. Freddy Moore. He's the one in that red truck. Yeah. That's how I he used to come serve Freddy. That guy served Freddy. Yeah. So that's how Mary would know him. See, cuz Mary I introduced Mary to Freddy. So Mary used to go to Freddy house a lot when I was not there. So maybe that's how Mary know him. But I never been with Mary and we met him. Do you know anything about him? I just know. See at home street? No. I never saw him in hotel. Where did you see him? I used to see him. He stayed in Pine Lakes. The trailer park down there. You're talking about the one way down there. If you take where the petrol sit right there and if you go like the next light, it's a light then the next one. He stayed down. That's where me and Freddy used to like a walk. That's down there in like Slash Pine and that's where I know him from, but I don't know him like through by Mary. Okay. Where did you know him as when you do you have a name for him or anything? I cannot think what they call that man. I don't know cuz it's been like a long time cuz they moved out of slash fine but I haven't seen him in like so if Mary know him Mary know him through Freddy. Okay. The investigators warned Tiny that this interview must remain confidential to maintain the integrity of the case. That suits Tiny just fine because she would prefer her involvement to remain a secret if at all possible. Mary Freddy. Yeah, I told you Mary one of the places we used to go get used to go to house. So lives down there in the house was my friend but Mary house more than me but she didn't really know was comfortable with just like me and him. So is Freddy older guy [clears throat] the red truck? That's Freddy's truck. What? Okay. I don't know. It's a F50. Yeah. Extended cab, right? I'm trying to think of that one a I mean I know his name obviously I got a picture of him I'm trying to think what they call him his real name but I can't I can't even think right now but I know he used to come to Freddy house I used to used to pull up Freddy driveway I mean I never like talked to him personally but just to his face I know him through Freddy. I never like bought nothing from him. So this guy wouldn't probably be in the in the project. I never saw him ever saw but the other guy would be in the project. The other guy stayed in the bottom of the project. Not lived. I mean, but let me ask you this. And this is strictly your opinion. It doesn't count for anything in court or anything like that. But do you think that Ricky guy would be capable of doing something like this? Listen, if they don't in the bottom of the project, I don't put nothing past them. Yeah. So I, you know, just look at his mother. He look like he's a fool. I mean, yeah. I mean, he look like he's really do something. I compare to him. What about this guy? This Chris. What's his deal? Sorry. Huh? Sorry. Sorry. Text me. Didn't want to ask me what happened to me here. How does he know her? zoos on him. But I would definitely want to believe that. I know he did. He would cuz Mary owed her money. Mary owed her money. owe her money. But see, Mary just gave him a ride. Um Saturday when she came to take us to u Saturday morning, my cousin Ricky and me, not that Ricky, Ricky Bellery. Okay. We went to his house. Mhm. and he was pulling up in trouble. Mary had him in her truck, but certainly she owed him like $8 one time and he just said, "Mary, I want my goddamn money. I want my money, Mary." But Mary get her money. She'll go pay him and you know, so like out of them three, if anybody got I know she I want to say Mary talked to Cert though, but Cert said he was in Quincy or he was coming from Quincy. When? The night that they that happened last night? Yeah. Sur number 519 9744. Damn. That's pretty good. Yeah, I know his number. I told I used to call him now. That's why I say I don't know that boy. You know him for a while. Yeah, I know him. I told he text me this morning. I used to What does he ride around though? We he catch a ride with He don't got no car. He don't have a car. Okay. Where he stay? He live in Alpine. He stays in Alpine. What about the uh Ricky guy? Was he right around in? He don't have a car either. Ricky doesn't have a car yet either. All right. But like I told you, I I don't What about that other kid? I want to say he used to be driving his mom car cuz I remember one time I think Freddy said that was his mom car. Oh, okay. Yeah. What was it? Do you remember? It was a little blue photo car. Light blue. got it now no more. But I like I said, I haven't seen him in like [clears throat] a long long time. Oh, I cannot think of what they call that boy. You don't remember what if that was a domestic or import car? Like was it What's the difference in domestic? Domestic is like a Ford or a Chevy and imports like a Toyota or a Honda. Okay. So, it would be like a import. I think it was like a little small blue car. Okay. All right. But she got from him pretty good now. You think? This was my friend that we used to see every day, almost every day. Cuz he called for a ride. He need a damn ride. So we wrote him, you know. That's why I say Sy called me this morning. He talking like he was crying. I called him Sy. That's what they call him. His name is Chris. Where what does that mean? I don't know. Always been his nickname. Yeah. See, I just met him. We met him. I've been know him like a year. I made him live without me. Did you introduce him? These questions have easily verifiable answers and it will help them to determine the accuracy of Tiny's answers to more relevant questions. Not to say that she is lying, but even honest people may have poor attention to detail. And it is best when that can be taken into consideration to Mary or did Mary introduce you to him? Me and Mary was together one day and we were looking for something and we at the Robinson store came by the truth. Yeah. But I don't started calling this morning. He was like what happened? I told everybody asked me what happened cuz Mary me and Mary we hung out like I told him they started seeing Mary. I see Mary all the time not even with me but I text her phone or either I call her just to remind her. you. So, this is the guy you think was in Quincy? Yeah, I think she said um she talked to him and this morning I want to say he said that he talked to Mary and he said um he told Mary he wasn't home or I don't know. I don't know what it was. I don't think she saw him. It wasn't she didn't talk to him. His number 5199744. You feeling fairly confident he didn't have anything to do with it? Kiss me on some whole others. You think he talked to us? I mean, get the whole dope angle out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Probably cuz everybody members that's in that phone, they can look for y'all. That's what pretty much what I said today. I said if I was in that phone, they come they come to talk. That's why I was looking. Did you talk to them about that? No, not by y'all come to talk to them. We ain't talk about that. We just talked about they ask me what happened. And I said, "I don't know what happened. I'm just like y'all. I want to know what happened." And then that's what he was saying. What do you think about Mary? Mary going to make me hurt her ass. That's what he just be his mouth saying that. But at the end of the day, he said this morning. Mary was my girl. He said Mary was good people. And she really was. You know, like I said, she'll get she'll go get stuff from him. You might not pay him this week, but next week, first thing she going to come do is go pay Chris his money. I got to go see Curt. I got to go see Sy. I owe him. She could have go pay him and then they right back. You know what I'm saying? She was good. She was good about it. Yeah. That's why I tell used to tell everybody she made me mad cuz even if me home together and she went with me and she when they got something from somebody know they'll see me and be like where your white girl and then I be like I'm they say like I'll go to her house or something like that and I always say don't do that. I said cuz one thing about whatever she do in the streets leave in the streets. I said if she owe you y'all can rest believe she going to come and she going to pay y'all money. Like I say, when she come roll it through, right? I wanted to go back to something and just clarify and make sure I understood you correctly. You said that you thought that he was maybe in Quincy. I want to say I don't know if I heard her say [snorts] that he was in Quincy or coming from Quincy. Uh I don't even remember if I heard him say that, but one of them said Quincy. Somebody said Quincy. It was from Mary like when you were in her. She said he called her phone. I take that back. She said sir called her and she called him back and that's when I want to say I think he said he was coming. I don't know if he was saying that he was in Quincy or he was Was this when you were hit with her that night? Yeah. Last night. Yeah. So she called him while you were there or she called before you were there. She made like three or four phone calls just sitting there. I mean she Okay. But like I said, the only person I know, I think she called, I want to say she called a boy Ricky and he called her back. Okay. See, I don't know the boy Rick phone. That may be just text messages. I don't know if we got a separate print out for the phone calls. Yeah. Go and get the phone call. The phone call. The last phone call I believe she talked to as far as she was with me was somebody named Ricky. So that's the only Ricky that I know that I know that be in the bottom of the party over there. I don't know named Ricky. Gotcha. [snorts] Can you think of anything that we haven't asked you that could help us solve your friend's homicide? I don't think I can tell you the final homicide is go if you get got her phone. You think that last call? Cuz like I said when she was going to call me, the last person she called was somebody named that I heard her talking to is somebody named Ricky. Okay. And again go back the the the Quincy thing is he tried to call her. It was like mis call and then she called him back. See I'm thinking if she called if he called her he probably [snorts] called her for a ride cuz one day we took him to Quincy. She called and came and got me and asked me to ride. I said I don't like riding with these people but I think that's where we end up taking him. Where' y'all go? Qu I don't know the difference in him. I mean where where to his people's house or to me somebody went and met him at a parking lot or some [ __ ] and [clears throat] um I was married. Did he was he dropping off or picking up? He already had it. I don't know if he went to go I want to say he probably went to go drop something off but he already pretty much had a [snorts] little chrome. Is he a big time dude? Hey little crumbs. He's nickeling down that guy. [snorts] That's what he did. Yeah. And again, that's not what we're interested in. Tiny may know someone who has more information, which the investigators will need to interview. She's also very firm about Stevens being the last one on the phone with Gray before she died. Interested in solving a homicide, but I'm worried that because he is a nickel and dime doper that he ain't going to want to talk to us. See, that's why I say I don't know. But one thing about it is they can look for y'all to go talk to them if them numbers ain't no problem. I told her I tell whoever if that number may have had Mary had a list of numbers that I ain't know the numbers. I don't know cuz I they people give me numbers. I might put my phone the child please. I don't know locking in log I get no name or nothing cuz I I'm not going to call them long if I see them. That's much different. But as far as I know his number cuz I used to call him and I dealt with him. So I can tell you his number 519 9744. That's crazy. Where's he stay at? Alpine. You sure about that? Alpine. Okay. What's he drive around? You just whatever you can get. Mhm. You ever see him in a little silver car or a little gray car? No. You ever seen him driving a car? Like what does he drive if he gets like a dope loaner or something like that? One time he used to drive, he used to drive a blue I want to say it was a BMW, but I think he got wrecked. So if Chris was going to drive, he'll call somebody to ride him. That's his That's his name. That's his main thing. Besides that number you just had in your memory banks. Do you have any other numbers for him? That's his only number. What about for these other two guys? Anything for them? I don't know. I definitely don't know his number. But I told you I think I got a on my tablet at home. When you take me home, I can run upstairs and get the um my tablet where I was logging on my paper and I should have his number cuz I want to say let's do that. When he called the number out, Mary put the number in her phone and I said, "I'll write it down cuz I think this one day Mary took me to go take a UA and we talking and that's why I said hi." And I took the number and I think I dropped the number. I dropped his number down on in that tablet. So I got a telephone home on that bed. But as far as him, I cannot think of what they call this boy. But he'll nickel and rock the I'm no real big deal. But like I said, I don't know about him because I ain't deal with him. I ain't see him in a long long time. But I know we deal with him like on an everyday basis. Mhm. Was how how fairly recently? Mhm. I [clears throat] told you just Saturday morning she was in trouble with she gave him a ride Saturday morning. Okay. How were they towards each other? Good. When he when he act crazy they act crazy. She say she not going to pay me. She don't go around. But they like was on good terms, you know. But like I say, so she was giving him a ride the day of the homicide and they were cool. Saturday morning. Saturday. Saturday the 7th. Yeah. She gave him a ride. We went over there and he told me he was home cuz I called him and he said he was home. But he wasn't home. When by [clears throat] the time I pulled up in his driveway, me and my cousin, he was coming up and Mary talked and me and Mary talked. Well, you know, Mary was driving, but we talked and she said she's going to go home then. She was with him, right? I just can't emp emphasize enough. One, I appreciate you coming in here. And that's what I was at first. I know. And a lot of people have that apprehension. And I mean, obviously your friend's dead, so you know there's some bad guys out there and they're not playing bad. They really are bad. You can tell that by what they did. But that's why I want to emphasize it's very important that you keep this conversation between us. Most definitely. And anytime if you need me for anything. I mean, and that's what I was going to say. Just cuz I we showed you these pictures here don't mean they're responsible. It just means that they got some more pictures when you put the members. Just like just like we talked to you cuz your numbers in the talk. Yeah. I was looking for y'all to come talk to me. But I just I'm like not scared cuz I'm talking trying to help fine. I was scared cuz I don't want nobody to hurt me. You know, like you say, I just have to keep confidential. But if you got when you pull out other numbers in the pictures, if you need me to know cuz I know a lot of them I probably to see their face and I probably to connect their numbers or you know to tell you but like a lot of people I don't know but I'm willing to if you need me to do it I mean I'm here. Well again I appreciate your cooperation in this thing cuz I know a lot of people don't want to talk to us. Um given I feel like if I don't want to talk I got something to hide and I don't have nothing to hide. And that's true for the most part. I don't think I'm scared. Look, I didn't want to get in trouble for not being home for 7 to my house cuz I was so stressed after and I fell asleep. I ain't worried about that. Now, if you just slam the door in my face, look, when y'all say the police, I already when I look back cuz I'm so scared. When I heard y say police, I back down. But I thought that man thought I was going to run. I'm not going to run. I'm scared as hell. Investigators once again emphasize the importance of keeping the information discussed in this interview confidential. Tiny is truly afraid. So, it is doubtful that she will reveal anything outside of the interview room. I haven't met you until tonight. So, you never know what you're going to run into come talk to me. But like last night, my son kept saying, "Mom, my son, he cried because my kids, they got married." I'm talking about Yeah. My son was in there crying. I was crying, you know. um comes really hard for me that just I was just talking to her and just to see that she gone it really hard for me to believe because like on a Monday morning like this morning soon as she would took her husband to work even and every time we be together it wasn't about dope I mean she just come let's go ride we going to go look for a job you know we don't end up going for a job Rosemary let me uh step out real quick I'm going to go tell my boss we're done with the interview make sure he didn't have any other questions and then we'll take you back to the house thank All right. Um, you said Chris did sound like he was going to cry or something. Yeah. When I talked to Chris this morning, cuz you know, you know, like I said, Mary, she might have done her dirt and whatever she done, you know, I used to get mad at people because first thing they come running up to me and say, "Oh, way that [ __ ] white girl. Don't come around me. If y'all won't me when y'all done, whatever y'all done, don't come around me raise hell about something that she done to y'all." Whatever. You know, and I stress to them one thing about it. She got a husband and y'all should respect that. If y'all don't see her out, she either with her husband or she take care of her business. But she gonna come and she's going to get y'all straight, you know. That's one thing she going to do, you know. And I always just and I say maybe she can't get me to ride because she always tell me, I'm so comfortable riding with you cuz I be telling her, "You could be with me. I don't give a damn if you done something to somebody, Mary. If they run their ass up here, we going to call the police on their ass." And I just always tell that, you know. Um and that's just the truth. I said, "Cuz I'm not going to let them hurt me and I'm damn sure not gonna let them hurt you." Even though we had got some drugs, I'm call people. I'm going to call the police on the edge. And I meant that, you know, because what could it be? Just like I said, but last night if I went on 77, I would have been in that truck with her cuz I that that was my friend, you know. I roll with her and I just like thank God cuz I probably got hurt too, you know. I would have been I wouldn't have been here. God knows I would have been in there with her. Yep. But I had to get married and I always quit to her especially late night. I saying take your ass home with you got a husband. I [snorts] said girl don't got no husband. I said take your ass home and she was like all right ti in the morning. So I'm assuming that when she didn't text my phone cuz if she in the hood she tried to do something. She just text me. So I kept looking at my phone. She never text me phone. I said, "What was funny cuz when I heard um the ambulance and stuff, I had to went in there and laid down and I jumped up, came in there, I said, "I hope Mary took her ass home." That's what I said to my niece. And I said, "Um, and ain't nothing happened to Mary." How'd you find out? Um, Facebook. My niece got on Facebook and said, next thing she said was, um, somebody said it was a white lady in a black truck. And you just knew. I I I didn't go back to sleep cuz I want to go down there. But I would had a fit if I went down there and saw that truck though and saw her cuz this just would be like so hot, you know. I can just can't believe it. I mean, and then um they post the white lady that be with Tiny um my mom. They going to I don't give a damn about them posting that on Facebook. Everybody know me and her from being together, you know. Police going to come talk to me cuz I'm in her phone. I don't care about that. I don't have nothing to hide, you know. I want them to find out who done what I may have done to her because it's it could be me. Could have been you. Yeah, it would have been I would have had two funerals. Yeah, I did forget to ask something and it's almost the most obvious question. How did you even find out about it? Ask me Facebook. Um, my niece said, um, they said somebody got shot. You know, my niece them days love Facebook. I never go on Facebook. So, I told her I was about to lay down and she said um they said somebody got killed in the bottom of the project. So, um I told him I said um I got up and I said the shots. Tell them what you said. Yeah. I said I want Mary um took her ass home, but I told him I said I was assuming that she went home because she didn't text my if she didn't stand up here to do something, she would have text my phone to let me know. Um she didn't text my phone no more. So I just assumed that she went home. So I told my I was like tip. I hope Mary took her ass home, you know, and I just said like in a a joking me way. [clears throat] Then like I said maybe like 10 or 15 minutes later. They posted again and said it was a white lady in a black truck. I told him that's one I jumped up and my heart just sunk. That was this morning or last night? That was like last night about like my niece stayed on Facebook like 1:00 2:00. She kept coming there and telling me what was going on, right? And um then somebody posted um the white lady that be with tiny, that's me. I'm tiny. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really could. Social media is both a blessing and a curse for a case. On one hand, it can bring witnesses forward so information can be gathered quickly. On the other hand, rumors and supposition can taint a case and make trails difficult to follow. officers who were trying to pin him and get him to drop his weapon. Jordan didn't give up without a struggle and ended up shooting both officer James Row [music] and James cuz I just said no that's not Mary and I wanted to call her phone but I didn't want her to be home and then I call her phone and her husband know cuz I don't want no trouble with her at home you know I don't know uh a couple other questions too and this is just you may not know the answer to it but um do you know which apartment Chris stays Um if we want to go try and talk to him. 124. Okay. What building number? If you go to If you go to Alpine. Oh, that's right. Al turn in the um first entrance. Turn into the second entrance and 124. The one that's not the mountain that you have to go. Not that side is rough. Potholes and everything. He been on 124. Do you know that you ever seen him in a gold car over there? A gold car. Yeah, like a little gold car. Do you know if any of his neighbors have one? See, don't be paying attention when I You know, when you be on, you be high. You go. You go. For one thing, you try to go do what you got to do when you go. So, I like really don't pay attention. And And here's another question. You may not know the answer. I'm definitely not asking you to do this right now. We want to try and talk to Chris, but if he doesn't want to talk to us because he thinks we're the drug dealing police. Well, I see that. I mean, I like Do you think you could get him to come in? I might. He can. Okay. He might ain't going to say you're going to do it, but Well, let's just like throw it at him tomorrow. I'll be like, um, I talked to them and the last couple of people that Mary talked to, this what I'm going to say. They coming to talk to y'all. You remember? Well, and here's the thing. If he says he's in Quincy, I mean, we should be able to prove that some way. Yeah. And if he's really innocent, then we need to go ahead and get him marked off the list so we're not looking. If we're not looking, if I don't want to spin my wheels looking at the wrong guy, I want to look at the right guy. And if he's in Quincy, there should should be something. Somebody told me they seen he went in Quincy. Somebody said he was at the um the Tony store. Pop um post up at the Tony store. Who told you that? Um a girl named Tasha who knew Tasha saw him there or Yeah. Tasha. Tasha was one of friends too. Who's Tasha? Um, they don't know Tasha last name, but she stay dark. Got a gap between her teeth. THAT'S TASHA. SHE HER was good friends, too. Before I met Mary, Mary and Tasha, she got married for $2,000. She think got married for two grand. When I first met Mary and Mary said these two girls got her for $2,000. And I said, Mary, why would you give a person $2,000? But Tasha said when I said um they said something about Cert and I said no that's what I said today because when we was talking I said certain but I I can't remember which one I get confused. Well here's what we'll do. We'll try and do it ourselves so we don't have to involve you but but I still don't mind. I'm like still let him know you know I'm going call him. Well well don't that's what I'm saying. Don't do that until we reach out to him. Now, if he tells us to go pound sand, then yeah, I'll get all the down information where he stay and everything. They reach out to you and see if you can smooth it over and bring him in. Cuz like pretty good friends. I mean, cuz here's the way I see it. If I'm innocent and the police want to talk to me about a murder, I'm going to go clear my name. Well, I told him, I said, "I don't have nothing to hide." I already knew. I kept telling my mom, I said, "I'm wait for them to come talk to me cuz I'm I'm just scared." But I was scared to come talk. I was scared cuz I don't know what happened to her. And by me and her riding together, I don't want nobody to hurt me. And then another quick question. When you when you went down there to drop Ricky off or to meet Ricky to have him served to you or whatever at the apartments, do you know what apartment number he was in? If you go I just always see people if you go in like Okay, say we going this project now. We turned in this in the last section. You know how you go? Where's that map? You'll get the map. No, I'm talking about on Woodville. As they close the interview, Tiny is advised not to contact the potential witness until they can get a hold of him. I don't know about San Marco. See, I don't know where he came which how she come out in San Marco. Okay. If you don't know, you don't know. I just figured I'd ask. Yeah, but I I know. He said he lived with his sister in San Marco. Whoever that is. This is the bottom of the hill. This is This is the cutthroat and this is the bottom. Okay. So when you go in, if you come down here, they always be to the bottom part, man. On the very end on this on this building right here. Yep. So this building, let me see. Yes. It'll be this building right here. And then the bottom floor. That's what we going in. The top floor. Bottom floor. So somewhere somewhere around here. The first apartment on the bottom on the left. If you go all the way down to the bottom, just so if you're facing the If you're facing it, it's the end on. Yeah. Way down. Yeah. On the right. First corner. First floor. Yeah. I don't think nobody know. I had But he doesn't live there. He's just trapped. I just That's where they just cuz it's like way I always have seen him like when I used to go. No, I saw him down there today. I went down there. I saw a group of them down there. See? So that's where they all like hang at. So Okay. I just be scared to go down there because that's what I didn't get for my son. But I was just so scared when you go down there, they look so intimidating. And then have you seen is this guy does he look familiar to you? See, I don't know him. Never seen him walking around or anything? [clears throat] Okay. All right. That's all I have. Mark, you got anything else? Yes, sir. All right. I think we're good. We'll give you right back to the house and and if anything else you need get that tablet up. That'd be great. And anything you need me help just get well you on my mobile phone. Yeah, I'm going to give you business card and give me a call. Anything I can think of and I'll help you out. I feel better. [snorts] Ricky Stevens [music] received a mandatory sentence of 30 years for the secondary manslaughter charge, was sentenced to 10 years for the possession of a firearm, and received [music] a 12-ear sentence for violating probation on a previous burglary charge. He was found not guilty of charges of shooting into a vehicle. Gray's family filed a lawsuit against the police department, stating that in view of her mental health, she should not have been used as an informant and that the department placed her life in danger. 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