[Applause] [Music] and welcome to facts or frauds. [Music] This is the city of Detroit, Mr. Barry versus Destiny Graves, case number SP16. Strike that. SP1069059 counts one and counts two. SP17247881. SP1724805 counts 1 2 and 3. And SP728361 Junior on behalf of the defendant state your full name. Miss Graves. Oh, good morning. I am Destiny Raven Graves. That's capital B lowerase E S T I N E Y. Um, hyphen capital R lowerase A I V Y N colon capital G lowerase R A V S. I am appearing specially and not generally. I am here in good faith and under the pro under the protest solely to address the matters raised in my plea abatement. I am not here to delay the process but to ensure proper identification and lawful jurisdiction are established in the record before any further proceedings. >> All right. Good morning to you ma'am. Today is the date and time set for arraignment on the bench warrant. Would you like council to represent you or no? >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? >> I said today is the date and time set for arraignment on the bench warrant. Would you like council to represent you or not? >> Um, I'm actually um I actually am not open to proceeding until um we establish jurisdiction over the living woman. That's lower case E S T I N E Y hyphen capital R lowerase A I V Y N colon capital G lowerase R A V E S. >> Okay. Jurisdiction has been established. If you are um Destiny Graves, >> if you're Destiny Graves, if that's your name, then um unless you have some other um uh >> you the court rule and you you cite a court rule, the court is going to feel the jurisdiction has been established. I understand your honor, but respectfully the name in all caps represents a corporate legal fiction. I am here as a living woman, not as a shity or a fictional entity. I respectfully require the court to establish for the record how to obtain lawful personal jurisdiction over me, the living woman separate from that entity. >> Well, I'm going to enter a not guilty on your behalf. I'm going to give you a Z bond. I can either get you into the breakout room with this with the city with the with an attorney and uh he can uh help you proceed or you can proceed and speak to the city city attorney yourself to see if you can work this matter out or I can set a jury trial date and the matter should be resolved on the jury trial date. Which one would you like to do, ma'am? >> Um I are Are you asking me if I would like to proceed for trial? Yes. >> Um I would respectfully your honor I would like to reserve all my rights under the UCC 1-308 and I object to these proceedings under protest and jurist. My appearance is special and not general. I do not consent to the court assuming jurisdiction through presumption. If this court insists on moving forward without proving lawful authority over the living woman, I must note a violation due of due process for the record. >> Okay. So, I mean, if if if you can't give me an answer to my question, then um I'm going to put you back in the waiting room until you can figure it out and we'll move on to the next person. >> What is your question, your honor? I ask you, do you want to see if the attorney can get you an offer and speak with the attorney, or would you like to work out an offer with the city yourself to resolve the matter, or would you like me to set a jury trial date? Those are your three options. >> Um, >> you keep on saying that same stuff is not going to change what your three options are. Okay, so that's that. I don't need to hear that same recitation of what you just mentioned a minute ago. Now, what do you want to do? >> So, my Okay, I'm sorry. Respectfully, I do want to know um is this denying the abatement, plea? >> Say that again. >> Is this denying my abatement plea? >> I'm not I'm not getting into this, ma'am. I'm going to pass the matter. She says she want to [Music] >> Destiny, are you there? >> Your is your device working now? >> Good morning, your honor. >> Good morning. What is your full name, ma'am? >> I'm sorry. >> What is your full name? >> Um, I am Destiny Graves. That's capital D lowerase E S T I N E Y Hold on. >> Um, I'm sorry. >> Well, give me a minute. >> That's capital D. E, capital D, lower case. >> Uh, yes, you can. >> All right. Hold on. >> Hello. >> Hold on a second. This is City of Detroit versus Destiny Raven Graves. Case number SP1069059 two SP1 uh 724805 pumps 2 and 3 SP 17248 361 state name for the record please ma'am. Um, for the record, I am capital D lowerase E S T I N E Y-ash capital R lowerase A I V Y N colon capital G lower case R A V S and I am appearing specially not generally. I am here in good faith to address the matter of jurisdiction before any other proceedings. >> All right. All right. Today is the date and time set for show cause. You missed your last court appearance. No, I apparent you um you uh what was it? Not just pass the matter. >> Yeah, but you left then. You left without without waiting on me to recall your case. >> Oh, cuz I had spoke with your um secretary. >> You don't you don't speak with anybody but me. I give you the authority to leave or not. Yeah, I was I wasn't aware what to do, what my next steps were to do. So, I did email the I mean send a letter to the clerk so that I can figure out what my next steps were cuz I was confused on what path the matter was and I didn't want to >> you need to hire yourself a lawyer um ma'am or if you don't know the procedure or or learn the rules of uh the court rules. >> Understood, your honor. >> All right. So, what do you want to do? Do you want an offer or you want a trial date? >> I'm sorry. >> Do you want an offer on these matters or do you want a trial date? >> Um, honestly, honor, I I would like to establish um proper jurisdiction before moving on. >> All right. Juris jurisdiction and the court size is established. You got noticed. Um, right. >> Noticed in what way? >> You got notified by the court that you had to be here, right? >> Was I notified by the court? >> I You got a ticket, ma'am. So, let let's just let's just I don't have >> I I did have a ticket, but I did not um sign any o I did not sign over my rights or anything. So, I did You haven't given up any You haven't given up any of your rights. Now, do you want to speak to a lawyer or not? >> No. Yeah. I >> All right. So, either you have two options now. I can let you speak to the city attorney yourself. You have three options. You can plead as charged to all the matters. You have I can let you speak to the city attorney yourself and you can try to work out a deal for yourself. Or I'm going to set a jury trial date. Which one of the three options do you want? >> Um, >> you said I can take a plea, speak to an attorney, or set a jury trial date. >> You can take a plea as you can plead as charged. You can speak with an attorney if you just said you didn't want to speak to the attorney, but you can speak to the attorney. That gives you four options. You can plead as charged. You can uh speak to an attorney. You can speak to the city attorney yourself and try to work out the matter yourself with the city attorney. Or you can set it for a jury trial. I'm not even going to set it for a bench trial. Just set it for a jury trial. Which one do you want? >> All right. I'm going to pass it unless you I just want to I want to write it down. Give me I'm trying to figure it out. >> All right, I'll pass it until you figure it out. >> Okay, >> raise your hand in the chat once you figure it out. >> Let's pass the matter record with Miss Raven Gibson. Let's backtrack that. Miss Destiny Ra Raven Raven Gibson. Uh Mr. Gibson, I'm giving you an opportunity to make your make your mind up what you wanted to do. What What would you like? Thank you, your honor. It's not Gibson. Um, >> no. Graves. Grace, I'm sorry. Destiny Graves, I'm sorry. All right. Go ahead, ma'am. What do you want to do? >> I'm sorry. >> What do you want to do? >> Okay. I I just want to say thank you for allowing me a moment to gather my thoughts. Um, I am Destiny Graves. Destiny Raven Grace. as capital D lowerase E S T I N E Y dash capital R lowerase A I V Y N colon capital G lowerase R A V S I am appearing specially not generally I do not wave any of my rights I am here to set a pre-trial date under protest and to preserve um my challenge to jurisdiction and proper identification I respectfully ask that my objections remain on the record and that my parents today not be interpreted as a waiver of those rights. I am ready to proceed with pre-trial while maintaining these protections. Thank you, your honor. >> All right. So, I gave you four options. Which other options did you want to take? That's what I gave you time to figure out. You said all that other stuff that your your objection is noted on the record. So, you said all that other stuff, >> right? I said that I >> I said that I um I I will do a pre-trial. I will set a pre-trial date. >> Oh, the day is the date and time set for pre-trial. No, well, no, no. You're going to either set it for trial. You're either going to one I'm giving you here. Here are the options to we're going to treat today like a pre-trial date. On a pre-trial date, that's the date where you go and speak with the city attorney and try to work out a deal. Obviously, it's obvious that you are not interested in working on a deal cuz you probably just want us all the cases dismissed cuz you feel that you have the legal authority to drive or and ride on a cell phone and move around the city with you don't you don't feel these allegations apply to you. So, >> no, it's not that I feel that they don't apply to >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Either you're going to get a deal with the city attorney today. They're going to do this one more time. You're going to get a deal with the city attorney today. You're going to speak to an attorney in the breakout room so they can secure a deal for you. You're going to set a jury trial or you're going to plead guilty to everything. Those are your four options. Which one do you want? Y, unfortunately, I do not consent to move forward without showing proper without proper jurisdiction over my living person. >> All right. Give me a jury trial date, >> please. >> I'm sorry. >> I'm going to set a jury trial date now. And you're going to be in person. You're going to have to come in person for this next court hearing. >> And what what date would this be at? as can I also say that um well I also would like to add that I would like for my rights to be preserved under the protest. >> Your rights are going to be preserved. You haven't taken a plea at all today or not? >> Okay. >> Excuse me, your honor. Are you going to appoint standby counsel for a jury trial? >> I don't think that is even necessary. I don't know. Do you want me to appoint you to this, Mr. Zoro? >> No, thank you. I'm not I don't do the assigned jury trials. >> Oh, I I got to go through the MD IC anyway. >> September the 16th. >> September the 16th. September the 16th is going to be the jury trial date. That's going to be in person on September the 16th. Okay. >> September 16th. In person, what time? >> At um we'll just say 8:30. Then I'm going to set two other dates. I'm going to set a um I'm going to set a motion >> motion. I don't think that's necessary, >> but I'll set it anyway. >> Motion hearing date. >> Oh, no. I'll just set a final pre-trial date. final pre-trial date will be the day before on September the 15th. So, >> okay, you said it again. Uh, trial >> I'm going to give it to you all. I'm going to give it to you all and and and so final pre-trial date. Write this down, ma'am. Final pre-trial date is going to be September 15th. You do not have to appear in person. You can come online then. But I do want all parties to appear. Miss Schneider, are you there? >> Alexa Schneider for the people. P322, I'm here. Is this Destiny Graves? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, make sure if you if your officers choose to if they don't, we'll dismiss the case on the final pre-trial date. Miss Graves. Uh, all parties are going to appear on final pre-trial date. Um, if and and then we'll set a jury trial on September the 16th, 2025. Do I need to appoint Do you want me to appoint an attorney to you to stand by and assist you on this, ma'am? >> Um, sure, but I don't think it's needed, but we can um proceed with that if you like. Do you have a you have a number that you could be contacted at? >> Um, yes. >> What's the number? >> 313. >> All right. I'll try to see if we can get it appointed attorney. Um, but we'll we'll just set a pre-trial pre-trial on. So, come back on the court date. >> 28th. >> Add We're going to add another court date the 28th of August. come back on the 28th of August, answer the calls you don't recognize. Hopefully, one of those calls should be that appointed attorney and um and that date is set just to make sure that you've had contact with that attorney. Okay. >> Okay. So, I just want to uh confirm real fast. September >> September 16th, the jury trial date for 8:30 in person and then the final pre-trial September September 15th on Zoom. What time would that be? >> At 8:30. >> Okay. >> And then another pre-trial date for the purposes of making sure that attorney has contacted you. I need you to answer the calls you don't recognize. One of those calls should be that appointed attorney. If that appointed attorney does not contact you by that date, then we will try to get one appointed to you on the spot on that date. Okay. on sep on that would be on August the 28th. So you have August the 28th, September the 15th, and September the 16th. >> Is it the same time? >> 8:30. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Have a very good day. Best of luck to you. >> So you have Destiny um >> Graves. >> Destiny Graves. Yes, your honor. >> Have you spoken with her? >> I have. >> I have. Uh, we're asking for Can we adjourn this pre-trial? I think we can come to some sort of settlement. My client's going to need time to come into compliance. >> I don't know if your client >> I'm sorry. Um, I have Hello. >> Hi. >> Yes. We need to see you. >> Okay. I don't know if your client your client has um espoused the what what I what I understand is a sovereign citizen type of um u so I don't know if your client is willing to accept and offer it if you >> I have not had a chance to >> All right let's call it city of Detroit versus uh >> Excuse me judge I'm sorry your honor >> no excuse me just wait Wait a minute. I'll give you your opportunity to speak. Okay. City of Detroit versus Sunny Graves. Case number SP1 069059. Counts one and counts two. SP17247881. SP1724805. Counts 1 2 and 3. SP17248361. Appear. Appearance for the record please. >> Good morning. Harry Bachmann for the defendant. Would you ma'am state your full name for the record? >> Are you guys talking to me? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> I'm Destiny Graves. That's D E S T I N E Y- capital R A I D Y N. I'm sorry, capital R lowerase A I V Y N colon capital G lowerase R A V S. And I'm preparing specially, not generally. Um, I did want to say that I have not had the chance to speak with the um with the council privately and I would um I would like to have that opportunity. >> All right, go to the breakout room. That's that's contrary to what council said, but just go into the breakout. >> Let's go into the breakout room and um speak uh with the young lady, Mr. Boffman. Go to breakout room eight, please. Let's fast the matter. Let's go back on the record with Miss Destiny Graves. Mr. Bman, what does your client want to do? >> Judge, my client is continuing not guilty plea. We already have a final pre-trial set for September 15th at 9:00 a.m. on Zoom and a jury trial set for September 16th. We're going to continue with those matters. my client and I will continue to uh interact and uh I may be presenting a motion for final pre-trial but that would be presented according to the rule by September 8th. >> Very well. If it's nothing further, Miss Gray, have a very good day and best of luck to you. Okay. Did >> she ever come out of the breakout line? >> Thank you. Mr. Graves, are you there? Oh, >> I'm sorry. I was on mute. I'm here. >> I can't see myself, so it's kind of >> If there's nothing further, ma'am, have a very good day. Best of luck to you. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Let's go back on the record with Miss Graves. Mr. Roman, what does your client want to do? >> So, judge, this matter is set today for final pre-trial. Uh I do respect and honor the court's decision with respect to uh our motion for uh with regard to jurisdiction and we do have an intention to proceed with a finding of fact as scheduled. My client wishes for her own personal reasons to ask the court to consider adjourning tomorrow's bench trial at least for a a later time. She has an appointment. Uh my understanding it is directly related to her uh ongoing issue with uh securing a place to live and uh she's been offered some assistance, but that at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow morning um she's going to she's expected in a meeting to help her find housing. Um she's asking for the briefest of adjournments if this court would consider even a later time for us to convene for trial. that would uh be manageable for us. I'm prepared for trial, prepared to move forward. I don't know, your honor, that you require that the complaining witnesses appear for today's final pre-trial. Um, but as a matter of policy, I uh would ask that you would consider a motion to dismiss for a lack of those complaining witnesses to appear at this final pre-trial as we are on the eve of a jury trial tomorrow. Miss Horn. >> Uh, yes. Thank you, uh, your honor. One thing I did want to clarify, um, to the court is that I was not dismissing based on her arguments. Um, I was moving to dismiss for valid documents, your honor. Um, and in lie of the resources that it will take to go to jury trial, that was a bigger consideration. Um, however, the people are ready to proceed. Um, I did offer until Mr. Um, uh, Bauman advised that she was struggling with housing, um, which I think makes her an excellent candidate considering she has a child, um, for possibly street court. Um, so I'm open to whatever is in the interest of justice, your honor. >> I understand that you were dismissing for documents and they but we the issue was not having the ballot driver's license. That's where that's where the uh, she comes up. Go ahead, Mr. >> So, I spoke at length with my client uh yesterday about or day before yesterday about street court and street justice and about how that would um comport to some of her needs. She is currently uh in a shelter. She has a young son. I think he's two and uh she's also has some needs with respect to employment and quite possibly health care that could be could be in in for perspectively would be met if she would participate in our street justice program. I did mistakenly tell her that it would it might be a year commitment. I I want to make sure that I correct that because Miss Horn uh says this is this is a 90-day turnaround that the cases and the instant cases would eventually be dismissed uh once we get Miss Graves the the help that uh she needs with respect to uh what we've placed on the record as well as with respect to getting her driver's license back on track, then she would be in compliance, your honor. I don't know why accept that at that. >> But I'm thinking I'm thinking like this one. First of all, I would love to see Miss Graves be able to to to to get in the street court program or and I hate to have that her out there with no no housing as a small child. But I would think that the street court program there would have to be there would be at some point some at mission to responsibility. And that is the that is the real issue with Miss Graves, you know, um is not is not one to take responsibility and articulating time and time and time again, every time I've seen her, she's articulated the same argument, which a court like a court describes as a as as a sovereign citizen argument. Uh now I know Miss Graves doesn't term it as that but it's it's it gives all the the all the um everything she's saying is the same thing that the sovereign citizens uh coming from court coming uh for to the court. So I don't know if if I can I can always get Mr. uh uh Patel in here and I will do that if that's that's necessary. I have no issue with that. But I think moving moving forward, I think that that is going to have to be, you know, she's going to have to change her position or something. I I don't know. I It seems like she's pretty stuck on that on that position that that she has. So, um that's one issue. Um the other issue is is that uh there is u >> brought up to the court about the issue of the complaining witness not being here. It is my policy that on the date of trial on the date of the final pre-trial all of the uh individuals are supposed to appear. That is that's goes to Miss uh that goes to uh Madame Prosecutor Horn's uh argument of uh the the necessary cost as it relates to bringing the jury in and to avert that cost. We want to make sure that everything is ready to go. Um, was not here today. I don't have it written on the file that that's the action that I was taking, but that's not my normal course of action. He's usually here on um and he usually should he usually appears so he's probably on all the cases. So you >> except for >> misdemeanor cases. M right is not here. So uh yeah, I I didn't mark that on the file. It's it's just going to either go What time will you be uh at the at the uh dealing with the housing issue? What time uh will you be done with that? Do you think Miss Grace? >> Um I'm not sure, but here's my case manager. She knows more. >> All right. Um >> Kim, could you place your name on the record and who you are? >> My name is Kim Carter. I'm her case manager here at the uh shelter. She's um in a homeless shelter. Uh, we have her housing scheduled tomorrow between um I believe it's between 8 and I want to say 10, but it may not end till like 11 or 11:30. It's for her to secure permanent housing to leave and able to leave the shelter. >> Right. And good morning to you, ma'am. And what are the chances? Oh, here's here's one here now. What are the chances that is that what you call him in, Miss Warren? >> I'm sorry. Uh yes. Yes, your honor. I did call him in. I was not aware that he was supposed to be here, especially um this cold case's first impression to me. Uh but I did want him to be here um to to hear and see what we're going to decide or what your honor is going to do today. >> Okay. All right. Um and and and madame case manager, um are we is this a is this a a hearing uh that uh this uh Braves can um is is is likely to be granted some permanent housing tomorrow. >> Yes. So she'll be able to secure a voucher so that we can move her from the shelter into permanent housing. >> Exactly. Okay, great. That's that's us do. So from what my understanding, Mr. Bauman, Mr. Patel is not necessary because uh that that process is is going through quite a good people over there uh at at the shelter. So that's congratulations on that. I'm glad to hear that. Uh so we'll talk about um uh moving this uh matter. We'll cancel the jury trial tomorrow. Your >> honor, forgive me for interrupting. would you consider giving uh me some more time to work with my client? I'd like to see her get a valid driver's license. She is not suspended out of Detroit to somewhere else. I think I can help her identify that and I think we can bring her back with a valid driver's license. That should please us all, most especially the defendant and the city of Detroit. >> Well, I I'd absolutely like that. I would like Thank you, U Madam U counselor uh over at the shelter. Um I would like that. I would like that as well, but as I just say from everything I've heard from Miss Grave, that's not her intention. It doesn't seem as though it's her intentions. Are you are you willing to do the necessary steps to get a valid driver's license matter? >> Of course, your honor. >> Okay. All right. What we'll do is I'm going to I'm going to reset this matter for a pre-trial date. on uh October the 13th. Congratulations, M. Graves, on the housing. And >> do you mind telling me what day that is? >> That's a Monday. >> The 13th is a Monday. >> October the 13th is a Monday. >> Okay. >> All right. So, at 8:30, Mr. Bman, I appreciate you working with Miss Graves. I'm glad that that you seem to have gotten her attention and uh I hope things uh work out. I thank God you got uh you're going to get that voucher, ma'am, and you going to get yourself situated on housing. And um Mr. uh thank you Mr. Boffman for coming in and uh the advocacy that you've done. Um, I don't I don't I don't I don't know where you you get the arguments that you're making, ma'am, but in the court's eyes, they have no basis in fact or law. All right? So, um I don't I don't know how if you can take that for what you want. you're your own individual and you you you can uh make your own decisions, but that stuff I'm I'm changing my my uh way I move forward with the sovereign citizens. I don't think it's fair that everyone else either has to bring a valid driver's license in or they have to take some sort of of of punishment or plea because they don't want to operate and sovereign citizens just get to and I know Miss Horn that's nothing to your uh but it's just been cases that that that that the city just has dismissed the cases a few times in the past because they just don't feel with the cost uh it's just not going to happen here. All right. >> And thank you your honor. I was unaware of her sovereign argument alto together until uh we had already discussed the resolution. So but thank you for saying that your honor. >> Absolutely. Uh officer Londoski Langowski can good morning. Can you state your name badge number for the record please? >> Yes. Good morning your honor. Officer Maverick Langoski badge 746 Detroit police. >> All right. >> No, there's no need to apologize. I don't know if I told you. I didn't write it on the file. So, if I told you they may need >> Yeah. No, I I only got the notice about the jury trial for tomorrow. So, that's my apologies if I was supposed to be here earlier. >> No, I I didn't I didn't um I didn't necessarily tell you that. That's just the court's policy and it really comes from the chief judge and that comes from the chief judge. And I understand it very well that if the the people the people are not going to be ready and prepared, there's no sense in us uh inconveniencing the citizens of the city of Detroit for a jury trial that's not going to likely go. So other than that, we reset the matter to October the 13th. That's just a pre-trial date. And um you'll get uh if if another trial date is is necessary, you I'm sure you'll get the right uh subpoena. But I know that I said uh when I saw your name, I said he comes to court all the time. I know he probably did not get to know me. Sorry. >> Yeah. Nope. Nope. I only got the one about tomorrow morning. So, I was actually getting ready for that one. >> All right. Best of luck to you. So, now you got to maybe I I won't say you got some extra time because you may have a lot of other things to do. But hopefully you got some extra time. Have a good day. Be safe out there. All right. Graves. Um you be safe. Congratulations on that. and I hope that you find a nice, beautiful home for you and your your little one. All right. >> Thank you, your honor. >> Thank you again, your honor. Thank you to the prosecutor. Thank you to the good officer, Mr. Graves. Call me tomorrow. Okay. >> Okay. >> Bye, everybody. >> Have a great day. >> And so, there you have it. >> Yep. It all worked out in the end. Thank you. >> And thanks for hanging out with us on Factual Frauds. Make sure you hit the thumbs up button, you subscribe, and ring that bell. Also, leave a comment in the comment section. Tell me what you think. >> And a huge thank you to all of our Fax or Frauds channel members. And if you're still hanging out, thank you. I appreciate you all. Make sure you hit the thumbs up button, subscribe, and ring that bell. Also, leave a comment in the comment section. Tell me what you think. Till next time, I'll see you soon.