[Music] and welcome to facts or frauds what you are witnessing is real the participants are not actors on the third day of July in the year 2021 at Wayfield in the county of middlex of fora and elsewhere did knly and willfully furnish a false to law enforcement or law or law enforcement official following an arrest that Jamal ton Sanders ladar also known as Jamal to to leave abdulla Bay on the third day of July in the year 2021 at Wakefield in the county of midal sex of forid did violate the provisions of paragraph a of section 10 of chapter 269 of the general laws by means of the loaded firearm to it a 9mm luga Calum CZ model p10c semi-automatic pistol serial number c59 3014 to a g a 22 caliber Glock model 44 semi-automatic pistol serial number a l222 and three a 9mm luga caliber tus model GS semi-automatic pistol serial number AB L1 14844 and that Jamal ton Sanders ladimer also known as Jamal t t abdulla Bay on the third day of July in the year of our in the year 2021 at Wakefield in the county of mlex foret did own possess or transfer possession of ammunition that being quantities of ammunition of various calibers recovered from a Honda wrench line pickup truck and a Ford Transit baned by the state police invoiced as items 221 222 and 223 without complying with requirements relating to firearm identification card provided for in section 129 of chapter 140 the general laws against the piece said c and contrary to the form a statute in case made and provided a true bill that also the super Court began at hold in the city of wubber within for the county of middlex in the first M of August the year in the year 2021 the jurors for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts on their Ro present that Steven Anthony Perez also known as Luca Al por liad on the third day of July in the year of Our Lord on the third day of July in the year 2021 it Wakefield in the county of mdal sex of fored did KN only have in his possession or KN only have under his control in a vehicle a large capacity weapon as defined in section 121 of chapter 140 of the general laws to8 A1 a 5.56 mil um a 5.56 mm caliber Palmetto State Army model pa15 semi-automatic rifle serial number SCD 44399 2 a 5.56 m m m caliber Ruger Ruger a556 semi-automatic rifle serial number 855 d452 7 and three a 5.56 mm caliber DPMS Panther Arms model a15 semi-automatic rifle serial number ffh 294 980 and not having an effect a proper license to carry or otherwise being authorized by law to do so that Stephen Anthony perz also known as Lucha Alp liad on a third day of July in the year 2021 at Wayfield in the county of middlex of foret did knowingly have in his possession or knowingly have under his control in a vehicle a large capacity feeding device as defined in section 121 of chapter 140 of the general laws to it one 20 curved magazines and a drum magazine recovered by the state police from a Ford Transit van and two three curved magazines and a drum magazine recovered by State Police a Honda ridg line pickup truck and not having in effect the proper license to carry or being authorized by law to do so that Anthony that Stephen Anthony Perez also known as Lucha Al POA liad on the third day of July in the year 2021 at Wakefield in the county of middle 64 said did no one only have in his possession or under his control in a vehicle a loaded or unloaded firearm as defin in section 121 of chapter 140 of the general laws to it un 9 m 9 mm caliber luga caliber CZ model p10c semi-automatic pistol serial number c59 3014 two a 12 22 caliber Glock model 44 semi-automatic pistol serial number a222 and three a 9mm luberg caliber Taurus model GS semi-automatic pistol serial number a 14844 and three a 40 Smith Wesson caliber block semi-automatic pistol that said person not then being present in or on his residence or place of business or having an effect to get Li be licensed to carry firearms or authorized or otherwise being authorized by law to do so at Steven Anthony Perez also known as Lucha El PO liad on the third day of July in the year 2021 at Wayfield in the county of middle sex for said did knly have in his possession or in his on did knowingly have in his possession or under his controling vehicle a loaded or unloaded fiream and shotgun as toine in section 121 of chapter 140 of the general laws to it a 12 gauge mosberg Model 930 semi-automatic shotgun serial number a229 534 and a 380 win Remington model 700 volt action rifle said person not being present in or on his residence or place of business or having in effect a licensed to car Firearms are otherwise being authorized by law to do so that Steven Anthony Perez also known as luch elport liard on the third day of July in the year 2021 at Wayfield in the county of M Tex and foreset did store or keep a large capacity weapon that was a rifle as defined in section 121 of chapter 140 of the general laws to it won a 5.56 mm caliber Palmetto State Army model p K 15 semi-automatic rifle serial number SCD 644 399 to a 5.56 mm caliber Ruger ar556 semi-automatic rifle serial number 855-4213 semi-automatic rifle serial number ffh 29490 having without having such weapons secur in a locked container or equipped with a tamper resistant mechanical lock or other safety device properly engaged so as to render such large capacity weapon in operable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user in such large capacity weapon was stored or kept in a place where a person under the age of 18 may have had access without committing an unforeseeable trespass but Stephen Anthony Perez otherwise known as Lucha Alp liad on the third day of July in the year 2020 21 at Wakefield in the county of middle sex fored did store a keep a rifle and shotgun that is not a large capacity weapon as defined in section 121 of chapter 140 of the general laws to it a 12 gauge Mossberg model 930 semi-automatic shotgun serial number AF 2293 AF 229 534 and a 308 wind Remington model 700 bolt action rifle without having said weapon sec ured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper resistant mechanical lock or other safety device properly engaged so as to Rend a such weapon in operable inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user in said weapon was stored or kept it in place for a person under the age of 18 who does not possess a valid Firearms identification card issued under Section 129b chapter 140 may have access without committing an unforeseeable trespass that Steven Anthony Perez also known as Lucha elor liad on the third day of July in the year in the year 2021 at Wakefield in the county of melex fora did in the commission or attemped or attempted Commission of a felony use or wear body armor so-called or some protective covering for the B for the body or parts thereof made of resin treated glass fiber cloth or any other material or combination of materials designed to prevent deflect or deter the penetration thereof of ammunition knives or other weapons and that Steven Anthony Perez also known as Lucha Al PO liad on the third day of July near 20121 at Wakefield in the county of middle sex for said did violate provisions of paragraph a of SE of section 10 of chapter 269 of the general laws by means of a loaded firearm to it1 a 9mm luga caliber Cy model p10c semi-automatic pistol serial number c59 3014 to a 22 caliber block Model 44 semi-automatic pistol serial number a l222 and three a 9mm Luger caliber tourus model GS G3 semi-automatic pistol serial number A1 14844 and that Stephen Anthony Perez also known as Lucha El t liad on the third day of July in the year in the year 20121 at Wakefield in the count of mlex and for said did own possess or transfer possession of ammunition that being quantities of ammunition of various calibers recovered from a Honda rine pickup truck and a Ford Transit van by the state police invoice as items 221 2-21 2-22 and 2-23 without complying with requirements related to the firearm identification card provided for in section 129 C of chapter 140 of the general laws against the piece ofstead Commonwealth and contrary to form of the statute in such case they made and provided a true bill to these IND members of the jury the defendants have pleaded they are not guilty and for trial therefore they have placed thes upon the country which country you are you're now someone to try the issue if they are guilty you shall say so if they are not guilty you shall say so and no more members of the jury will now happen to the evidence he may be SE n you will be responsible for deciding this case please pay clst attention to the evidence you will see and hear during this trial the evidence is complete I will explain the legal rules that you must applied inside this case you will then meet together in private to consider the evidence apply those legal rules and work together to reach avert it before we start the trial itself I will give you some initial instructions I will explain the indictments that the clerk just read aloud briefly and describe what will happen during the trial I will then explain my role as the judge lawyer roles and your role as jurors I will discuss a few of the legal rules that apply in this case and I will explain some important things that you must do and other things that you must not do during this trial those uh those instructions I you will be familiar I think to all of you a moment ago our clerk Miss Noble read the language of the indictments in this case an indictment is a legal document that formally accuses someone of a crime in less formal terms the indictments in this case charge Jamal ladimer also known as Jamal ABD and Steven frz also known as L El LI or L El with nine counts relating to the unlawful possession and or carrying of firearms and ammunition improper storage of firearms and the use of body armor during the commission of aelon additionally Mr Abdullah Bay is charged with providing false information to police during an arrest the indictments that Miss no just read to you are not evidence in this case and that there are charges against the defendants does not mean that they are guilty of those charges as I told you when we were choosing our jurors Mr Abdula B and Mr luch L have pleaded not guilty in this case at the end of the trial you will decide whether the prosecution has prove each charge Beyond A Reasonable Doubt when I finish for these initial instructions the prosecutor will make an opening statement an opening statement is a summary of what the lawyer expects the evidence will show defense Council may choose to give an opening statement after the prosecutor's opening they may choose instead to defer their open openings until after the Commonwealth has presented its case against Mr abula B and Mr Lucha l or indeed not to give an opening at all after the opening statements you will hear testimony from Witnesses the evidence may also include documents and other tangible things the prosecution will call witnesses first then Mr abdulla Bay and Mr Lucha L will have a chance to call additional Witnesses if they choose to each of the attorneys May question each Witness after you see and hear all the evidence the attorneys will make a closing argument to summarize the evidence and to suggest conclusions you may reach based on the evidence and the law the lawyer's opening statements and closing arguments may help you make sense of the evidence you hear in see during the trial but the opening statements and closing arguments themselves are not evidence that's by the way parenthetically why you don't have notebooks right now in a moment I'll explain to you a little bit about note taking but we don't have you take notes on opening statements or closing arguments because they're not evids at the end of the trial I will instruct you in detail on the legal rules you must apply in deciding this case you will then discuss the case in private and work together as a jury to agree on a verdict my job as a judge in this case is to make sure the case is tried fairly efficiently and according to the law I must make sure that you hear and see all only evidence that is allowed when are Rules of Evidence those rules determine what evidence the lawyers May and may not present to you the purpose of these rules is to make sure that what you hear and see at this trial is relevant to the case and appropriate legally for you to consider if one of the lawyers says objection trial that means that the lawyer thinks that a particular answer or exhibit violates the Rules of Evidence if I'm not persuaded by the objection I will say overrule that means that the witness May answer the question or the other party May show you the exhibit and you may consider the answer or exhibit as evidence if I instead say sustained that means the witness may not answer the question or the party may not show you the exibit because under our rules you may not consider the answer or exibit if I sustain an objection you may not talk about or try to guess what the evidence might have been there may be times during the trial when I instruct you to disregard something or allow em motion to strike from the record something that you have already heard or seen if that happens that means that the testimony or exhibit I tell you to disregard or that I strike from the record is not evidence you may not consider it as the judge in this case I must also Explain the law to you at the end of the trial I will give you detailed instructions about the law you must follow to decide this case I will give you the those instructions orally out loud as I'm doing now and we'll also give you a written version to read along with as I read you the instructions and if te back with you into the Jury Room deliberations the lawyers have their own vitally important role in this trial their job is to bring to your attention the evidence and arguments that V support their position they may also object to evidence offered by the other side as I just discussed you must not hold it against the lawyers if they made an objection the lawyers have to let me know when there is a potential issue about whether you may see here or consider something jurors you have the most important role in this trial after you have heard and seen all the evidence you will decide who and what to believe and whether the prosecution has proved that either of the defendants is guilty of one or more of the crimes charge based on the legal principles I will explain to you again trial you must decide this case based only on the evidence you see and hear during this trial and on my instructions on the law you may not decide this case based on suspicion guor or speculation the evidence consists of the testimony of the witnesses as you recall it and any documents or other things that become exhibits other things you will see in here during trial are not evidence for example as I mentioned just a moment ago the attorney's opening statements and closing arguments are not evidence and the questions that that the attorneys ask by themselves are not evidence either a witness's ansers are evidence but a lawyer's questions standing alone are not a very important part of your job as I mentioned as jurors is to decide whom and what to believe whether testimony is contradicted or not it is up to you to decide whether or not you believe it you may believe everything a witness says part of it or none of it the same is true of each exhibit you must decide whether you believe what it shows or not in deciding whom and what to believe you should ask and consider some important questions first was the witness honestly trying to tell the truth or deliberately lying although WI has Tak an oath to tell the truth sometimes a witness says things that the witness knows are false if you conclude that a witness lied to you about something then of course you should not believe that part of the testimony second was the witness accurate or did the witness get something wrong without meaning to do so sometimes a witness may recall seeing or hearing something but still be mistaken if you conclude that a witness try to be truthful but then some part of the person's testimony was not accurate then you should not cons consider the inaccurate testimony I am required to have no opinion about whom or what you should believe or about how you should decide this case please do not take anything I say or do during the trial to suggest to you what to believe or how to decide the case the parties and I chose you to be jurors in this case because we believe you will be fair keep an open mind and not favor either side when you evaluate the evidence side the case as you work together to reach a verdict you will have to be completely fair to both sides not let sympathy Prejudice personal likes or dislikes influence you in any way you must consider the evidence calmly carefully and dispassionately as you listen to the evidence and then decide this case remember that everyone in this case is entitled to your fair consideration and to a verdict based on the evidence and not on a assumtions or any kind of bias because we are humans each of us has our own built-in expectations and assumptions based on our personal experience background you may have heard this described as implicit or unconscious bias as a result we are often a bit morec comfortable with people who seem to be like ourselves and maybe more willing to trust what they say and treat it as more important but as jurors you need to do your very best to put aside your subconscious expectations and assumptions and approach this case with a truly open mind as I mention there are certain legal rules that you must follow in this case I will discuss them in much more detail at the end of the trial but here are some key things you should know from the beginning uh and some of these things we've already gone over a bit in the jury selection process um and so they may sound familiar we repeat them because they are so vitally important as I told you during the jury selection process every person who is accused of a crime in this country it's common La is presumed to be innocent of that crime Mr abdulah B Mr Lucha L are Presumed Innocent of the charges in this case that means you must consider them to be innocent now and must still consider them to be innocent at the end of the trial unless the prosecution has proved Beyond A Reasonable Doubt through evidence presented during the trial that either of the defendants committed one or more of the crimes charged I will explain what I mean by proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt in just a moment Mr Abdul Mr luch El do not have to do anything to convince you they are innocent do not have to explain anything they do not have to testify call or question Witnesses or provide any evence at all because you must presume that they are innocent instead it is up to the Commonwealth to prove the charges against Mr abula Bay and Mr Beyond a reasonable doubt this burden of proof never shifts to the defendant at the end of the trial after you have heard and seen all the evidence you will deliberate with each other meaning you will discuss the evidence and decide on an verdict if you have a reasonable doubt about Mr Abdula or Mr amucha L's guilt on a particular charge then your verdict must be not guilty on that charge you may find each defendant guilty of a charge only if all 12 deliberating jurors agree that the Commonwealth has proved the charge beyond for Reasonable Doubt so as you now know the burden is on the cond to prove beyond the reasonable doubt that the defendants are guilty of the charges brought against them what is r out the term is often used and probably well well pretty well understood though it is not easily defined proof Beyond A Reasonable Doubt does not mean prove beyond all possible doubt for everything in the lives of human beings is open to some possible or imaginary doubt a charge is proved Beyond a reasonable doubt if after you have compared and considered all the evidence you have in your minds an abiding conviction to a moral certainty that the charge is true when we refer to moral certainty we mean the highest degree of certainty possible in human ma in matters relating to human Affairs based only on the evidence that has been presented to you presented sorry has been put before you in this case I have told you that every person is presumed to be innocent until they are proved guilty and that the burden of proof is on the prosecution if you evaluate all the evidence and you still have a reasonable doubt Remain the defendant is entitled to the benefit of that doubt and must be acquitted it is not enough for the Comm to establish a probability even a strong probability that the defendants are more likely to be guil then not guilty that is not enough instead the evidence must convince you of each defendant's guilt to a reasonable and moral certainty a certainty that convinces your understanding and satisfies your reason and judgment as jurors who are sworn to act conscientiously on the evidence that is what we mean by proof Beyond princial doubt as I've mentioned a couple of times at the end of the trial I will instruct you on each of the things lawyers sometimes call them elements that the Commonwealth must prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt to prove that the defendant the defendants committed the crimes charged for now however I will give you a brief overview of the things that the Commonwealth must prove in order to prove that each of the defendants committed the offense of unlawful possession of a large capacity weapon to prove this offense the Comm must prove five things Beyond Reasonable Doubt first that the defendant possessed a weapon or had a weapon under his control in a vehicle second the item me the legal definition of a large capacity weapon third the defendant knew he possessed that weapon or had that weapon under his control of the vehicle fourth the defendant knew that the weapon meant the legal definition of a large capacity weapon and or that the weapon was capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition B the defendant did not have a valid license to carry firearms he possessed the weapon as I mentioned at the end of the trial I will give you more detailed instruction on each of these things that the Commonwealth must prove Beyond A Reasonable Doubt to prove that the defendant committed this offense also each of the other crimes with which each defendant is charged each of the other crimes has several elements I will explain those to you in detail in my final instructions as well for now I have explained these things that the Commonwealth must prove as the crime of unlawful possession of a large capacity weapon sir you are generally generally familiar with how crimes are defined the law the Commonwealth alleges that Mr abula and Mr Lucha El each committed some of the crimes themselves and some in collaboration with others that is as part of a joint venture a defendant knowingly participates in the commission of a crime if the defend intentionally participates in some meaningful way in the commission of the crime with the intent required to commit it such participation may take any of several forms it may take the form of personally committing the acts that constitute the crime or of aiding or assisting another in committing those acts it may take the form of asking or encouraging another person to commit a crime or helping to plan the commission to Crime alternatively it may take the form of agreeing to stand by at or near the scene of the crime to act as a lookout or to provide Aid or assistance in committing the crime or in escap it such help becomes necessary the agreement to help if needed does not need to be made through a formal or explicit written or oral Advanced plan or agreement it is enough consciously to act together before or during a crime with the intent of making the crime succeed the Commonwealth must also prove Beyond a reason doubt that at the time each defendant knowingly participated in the commission of the crime's charge I'm sorry let me start over because I read that in the Commonwealth must also prove Beyond a reasonable doubt that at the time each at the time each defendant knowingly participated in commission of the crime's charge he had or shared the intent required for that crime you are permitted but not required to infer each defendant's mental state or intent from his knowledge of the circumstances or any subsequent participation in CRI the inferences you draw must be reasonable and you may rely on your experience and common sense in determining each dependent's knowledge and intent mere knowledge that a crime is to be committed is not sufficient toi the defendant as joint venturers the Commonwealth must also prove more than mere association with a perpetrator or perpetrators of the crime either before or after its Commision prosecution must also prove more than a failure to take appropriate steps to prevent the commission of near Presence at the scene of the crime is not enough to find an defend guilty presence alone is not establish a defendant's knowing participation in crime even if a person knew about the intended crime in advance and took no steps to prevent it to find either defendant guilty there must be proof that the defendant intentionally participates in some fashion from committing that particular crime and had or shared the intent required to commit it it is not enough to show that the defendants simply were present when the crime was committed or that they knew about it in advance at the end of the trial when you meet in private to deliberate you will have all the exhibits with you in the Jury Room we cannot provide you with transcripts of any Witnesses testimony however so you will have to rely on your memory of what each Witness what each witness tells you you may take notes during the trial if you wish again um our court officers will give you a notebook or notepad and a pen or pencil before the first witness testifies some jours find it helpful to take notes while listening to the evidence it may help them focus on the testimony and remember what is said some of you may not wish to take any notes which is fine whether you take notes or not is entirely up to you whether you take notes or not you need to pay close attention to each witness what they say in deciding whom and what to believe you should watch and listen to each witness carefully think about whether the witness seems believable whether the witness's memory seems reliable and anything else about how the witness testifies and what witness says it helps you decide whether and how much to believe the witness when you deliberate at the end of the trial remember that it is your memory that counts your notes may help jog your memory about what it said but they are not a substitute for what other you or other jurors remember about the testimony do not assume it because you or another juror wrote something down that it is more accurate than your or another juror's memory of what the witness actually said your notes are confidential no one including me will read them the court officers will collect your notebooks and pens at the end of each trial day and keep them safe until they are returned to you the next morning when the trial is over the cour officers destroy your notes during the trial if you had any trouble hearing or seeing please raise your hand or let a core officer know and you would make any necessary adjustments we generally take a morning recess at about 11:00 a.m. but if you need a break at any other time please raise your hand or let a cour officer know and we will take a break if you need to communicate with me during the trial please let a core officer know or give the core officer a note to bring to me um so with that I'm going to turn the floor over now to council for the conal to present the conal's open St you heard briefly on the whisper device um so you know a little bit about the days from thech but what you're really here uh in the next several days in Testament is that uh July 3rd Satur was a u Co rainy damp that night and that night uh a young State Police Trooper Ryan Casey was on patol in as part of his routine duties th like any other night when he was in Wakefield on state 95 he took note of a vehicle that was off off hold the right on the shoulder the break this vehicle had slash the van this is around 110 115 and so as troopers often do TR casy pulled over chat midle he was a uniform learn he was operating Mark police vehicle he got out with flashlight to go see what was going on with this vehicle began to walk towards him and uh as he got closer to the vehicle uh he saw someone coming toward him realized that there was a van but there was also a second vehicle parked a little further ahead also off and break down the man began to approach Tri Casey noted that this man was dressed in camouflage in fatigues military style clothing that this man was wearing U heavy body armor type vests with magazines attached to it learn the magazine is the component of rifle or pistol both being fired we really drew his attention um as this man was approaching them and and sort of Hing with the rifle this man was wearing slung across his body a large um uh rifle with a magazine connected to it with a stock with a grip uh the kind of rifle you might see in an action movie b um and so trer Casey immediately was was concerned this individual you'll learn was one of the defendants before you L who approached trer Casey identified himself Asal uh as Trooper Casey began to to quickly try to figure out what was going on there why this person why Mr Vlad was armed in this way on the side of the um as he began to talk other individuals began to congregate near them coming from the van uh in the area nearby these individuals were dressed similar to Mr L camouflage pants shs similar looking body armor vests um some of them had magazines P vest uh some of them had radios um and some of them were also armed visi you'll learn about an individual U one of the individuals you'll see some of the um photos and videos You'll see during the trial was wearing a a black ski mask pulled down over his face in the middle of July evening uh this individual was carrying a a large uh rifle with a magazine connected to it large capacity magazine meaning magazine that will hold more than 10 um magazines connected to his V he had a a large U survival knife connected you know one on his head you you'll see other still and individuals of individuals uh also dressed in similar camouflage military style clothing with similar military looking weapons that all began to congregate asy began to talk that and what ensued what you'll learn was TR trying to identify who these persons were why they were there why they were armed in this SE where they were going um you learn that quickly became obvious that there were quite a number of people involved at one point TR casy saw as many people all dressed in this with these camouflage clothing all you know all wearing similar types of body armor some of them openly carrying rifles or other weapons with them on the side of the road also be G quickly apparent U talking to Mr laimer that nobody in the group had any identification had not brought any prate LIC Mr told TR casy in fact that he had told the group which he would put to his his men not to bring any identification because of the nature of what they were up which he describes traveling through Massachusetts up to Maine to train what he called his militia he described his militia being gr from is um you'll learn that TR Casey as he's taking note of who's where and who's carrying which weapons um many of the magazines both connected to the rifles and worn on the best various individuals had uh viewports inside and you could see the color through that view indicating to him that those magazines were not acting they were of Amun um the conversation remained cordial but it became clear that Mr ler who acted as a spokesperson group who interacted with Trooper casy as other members of the group stood by and listened and some took Direction from him um that nobody had licenses to car fire on and in fact you will learn during this trial the identities of all these people who were involved and that is nobody would license to carry any of these fire and what ued was Mr Latimer's efforts to essentially try to talk the situation away um he presented Trooper Casey with a series of explanation um some of which you'll hear about during the case as as proper justifications of why they could be open carrying these weapons on the side of the road um and you know now from uh both the process and the pre-charge this morning that any legal instructions in the case are not going to come from this table for the defense table but the law that governs this case is going to come from Judge but you'll hear about some of the explanations that Mr ler gave to trer casy um and you'll see some evidence that many of them were false for example you'll learn that uh the group was not all from T is as he represented they were from all different areas and you'll learn that uh as different people are identified and documents confirming those identities are presented to you uh you'll learn that they were not in fact inip they're not conect to anything involved in the state of Island Massachusetts um and this was back and forth ined for a period of time even it's true for Casey uh asked the supervisor to come out help de the situation and try to figure out what was going on um Tri Casey you'll learn also tried to identify who was actually driving two vehicles uh and in doing this Mr vladimer insisted on accompanying him and sort of uh interposed himself between the drivers TR Casey as he talked to the drivers sort of acting as a a spokesperson we'll see the video um it became clear not only nobody had license to Car Firearms but nobody even had driver's licenses um the vehicles they were driving in were not even registered although Mr ladimer told the police um he confirmed that the registrations had expired sometime in the past and all of this according to Mr L kept explaining way is something that they can do because his view um so as this situation unfolded from shortly after 1:00 a.m. the early morning hours July 3rd other officers began to arrive to to provide assistance you see some of the videos of officers on seen um dealing with what ensued as Troi tried to deal with this trou was a request that the group take the guns they were holding at least for the time being put them back in the vehicles so they configure the situation and that issue became spping Point ultimately forv because lad made clear that his men his group was in no way going to absolute refus to put any guns down even even putting aside what would ultimately happen keep open carrying those weapons on the side of the road during this that motorist supervisor showed up talk Mr lad other members of the group persisted consistence they open care these unlicensed weapons on side um you will see evidence the form of photographs portions of try body warn camera uh you'll learn that the state police had started rolling out body short before this so there is some body War camera footage you can see you'll also learn that Mr L himself is wearing his own body in made recordings and you'll learn um that different portions where police were out of beer shot he was giving members of his words his militia his men uh directions to basically prepare in case the police tried to arrest who think where to aim how to escape with the truck and so on and so forth you'll be presented with recordings of those and I expect there will be a transcript to be able to follow along with those to see what the real intention and this is all going on you'll see as TR Casi is talking to them going back to the SC coming back trying to get more information try to figure this situation um so there were two vehicles so um ultimately there's a group by the van there's a group by the pick up truck further ahead Trooper casy dealt with the driver of the van but this person didn't have driver leg driver the pickup truck um who also had no information um and when it became clear that the group who had simply could not drive away in the registered Vehicles had nobody license to drive the vles had no licenses to possess these weapons you learn that essentially an impact was reached where uh Mr Latimer's men were not willing to put any of their vs down so the police began to wait it out they backed up they created distance they took steps to try to contain scene so that nobody could Escape uh they called in other officers including the unit called the stop team to basically handle this potentially very volatile situation but contain it this ensued for several hours um and during this time Mr lader continued to act as the through spokesperson um now trer Casas did not immediately deal with the second defendant who was on trial before see you will learn through watching uh Mr L's own body camera recordings watching some of the U recordings in that Mr Perez was part of the group he was one of the uh people wearing body armor dressed in camouflage military South um he was with other members of the group who trop Cas did not deal with directly in the initial stages of the um and you will hear I expect conversations where Mr laimer both discusses with him status of all the Firearms they have in these vehicles and at one point even allows him to hold the rifle Mr L had while doing something so it will become clear to you that Mr Perez was pres uh he was involved in the with mrad turned and said militia and that there will be uh discussions about Firearms involving the superx and this standoff went on until at almost uh 10 or 11:00 the next morning about 1:10 in the morning to about 10:00 next morning eventually um the group gave up during that time you'll learn two individuals were apprehended coming out of the woods in a nearby part of w field about a half mile away s uh they were observed jogging down the street they were dressed in the same camouflage de body armorer of jogging Away From the Rough area stand up happen and police who were in the area and were on alert to be looking for anybody TR away stop one of these individuals were was carrying a pistol um on his person who was loaded and had a second magazine uh to go with that P these two individuals were members of the original group casy Dev one you'll learn had actually been the driver of the the other had been with the pickup truck and had talked to Trooper Casey about potentially driving these two individuals around 6: a.m. about half away around 10:00 10:30 the uh the rest of the individuals at the roads side on 120 g ultimately surrendered they were arrested one by one they were arrested peacefully they left all their weapons in the vehicles that the police instructed them to do one by one they came forward to the police their hands up they were arrested they were checked out for any medical needs might have one by one they were arrested and identified photographs and information identifying who they were was obtained you will see some of that information you will see that information as I st before none of these people were licensed that's um the again judge gave you a very preliminary charge on concept joint venture I'm not going to talk about the on that but what you will see here is a group that came together for a purpose to possess these Firearms they maintained their position possessing these Firearms despite the police tell put them down for hours the group included Mr laimer who actually the essenti leadership Mr perz participated in his own his own fashion by joining the group coming into Massachusetts from outside the state with the group the fact that he's a president Bronx U dress along with the group put on body armor with the group prior to coming to Massachusetts stayed with the group throughout this hours long uh encounter with the state police and discuss the Firearms so you will see evidence of of uh joint participation of all the different people um you will also have some physical exhibit I expect you will have some of the Firearms presented to you for you examine some of body armor um as well as the recordings you will also I expect to see um evidence recovered from cell phones found on the scene as people were arrested this have been a planned event planned by S ladimer and other individuals ahead of time uh and then individuals that come from different locations to get together to make this happen so it's not a spontaneous thing um after the arrest you'll learn that the vehicle would search a large number of weapons were seed um the clerk had read the indictments to you that lists all the different rifles semi-automatic rifles large magazines phal to recovered from those vs um the only uh weapon not recovered in vehic was pistol found on one of the two gentlemen who was arrested nearby W field um who had come from that group in the first you'll learn that all those weapons were recovered by the state police they were taken to a laboratory they were examined by a train ballisti to see they would fact Firearms rifles and shotguns whether the magazines could hold more than 10 rounds he did all those things he test fired all the VAR weapons you'll hear testimony from Sergeant Jones explaining how he did all these things and all those things were back operable Firearms rifles shotguns live ammunition um excuse me uh you'll also learn that one of the individuals and there were total of 11 who were arrested two in Wayfield nine on scene Mr were rested on scene one of there one of the group members with them was under 18 he was a 17-year-old U uh minor child from the Bronx who would come with other members to join uh this group to ride up from uh Parts outside the state in these vehicles with all these weapons you'll also learn that during the search of the vehicles the items you would normally need to safely trans important secure weapons across state lines trigger locks or a lock container the gun accept from the ammunition not present so that this child was with them during the trip into Massachusetts and throughout the encounter with the safe police which ultimately ended on the morning of July 3 and you'll see information identifying that person as well Mak it clear that he was under the AG um so at the end of this again this is just road map what we expect the um at the end of this we'll get a chance to speak again and judge Deon will give you a more fullsome charge on how the law Works especially as it pertains the multiple participants um in charge crimes um but when you watch the videos you look at the seill you listen to the conversation you read the transcript you examine the physical evidence at the end of this case the only Verdi will be supported by that is a ver Verdi on all charges um as both defendants and with persective Mr vladim you also learn that in addition to the weapons charges he maintained this identity that he gave TR the encounter the identity of Jamal you'll learn it's not his true name it's an assuming name and you learn that he persisted in that even post arrest uh and the only ver supported by all the evidence incling that that's all the thank [Music] you before we uh turn to the defense I'm just to urge the jurors if anybody wants to stand and stretch for a few minutes so feel free uh and with that oh you wish her now you you can take the stand stret was not was to go a veral me what was supposed to have Happ was essentially a camping trim nobody in the group of people in the two cars plan for or asked for some kind of a standoff for some sort of a containment situation with the police but what happened that morning of July 3rd was Mr D found himself in a situation where people in his group looked up to him so that they could leave the high that morning a lot and not in the B you may hear some drama about the stand or the containment situation and it should be made clear nobody in this case is Char with committing an e hour stand they're not charged with trying to commit some sort of anti police act they're not charged with uh trying to create some sort of a bank he here they're not charged with pointing their weapons at any of the police they're not Char taking a shot at anybody no all we have here is at its distilled Essence is the ZET type of fenses and then the false name in storage type charges but as you hear the term scan off containment situation for any evidence from the police about uh how they handled the The 8 Hour part of the situation they're not even charged with res arrest they're just charged in essence with these possess type offenses when you hear about the first Trooper who comes upon the two cars that stopped along the side of the road remember this wasn't some car chase this wasn't um they weren't even pulled over for some sort of unlawful driving the troper Came Upon them and essentially was just checking on their well be but in terms of the plan whatever that plan was it was not to commit some violent criminal act now expounding on these possess possessory type uh offenses you heard you heard them this morning from the CL U so Mr is some of the charges are for what he's accused of having on his person directly there's there's charges just for what's on him and then there are charges for what is on uh or with uh other people according to the comm's case and the judge uh gave you uh a preview of an instruction um about when people are Essen in on it to commit a crime together and uh that's an additional thing that the government needs to prove they need to prove the actual crime of the weapons themselves but also it's something in addition that they need to prove for the items that are not alleged to have on this to Obe the judge told you your knowledge that a crime is going to be committed is not enough to convict they need to prove more than mere association with people and uh it's also not enough to show that somebody was present when a crime was committed or that they knew about it in advance and I ask you to remember those things when the attemp to prove some sort of a a criminal plan here to try to establish that they uh they all uh they all had some sort of possession uh of other people's weapons the people's uh ammunition you were briefly instructed on the burden of group in this case it's not a maybe it's not a probably it's not a more likely than not it is something that we call Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and not only does the government need to the elements of each uh events uh Beyond original but they need to prove that there was a joint venture Beyond reasonable Val as well and the evidence for that is just I don't we don't expect that it's going to be there and Mr is Presumed Innocent now today this morning and at the end of this trial I will ask you all to give him the benefits of that reasonable thank raisler home Fourth of July is America day federal holiday day off from work people celebrate July 4th in all sorts of some people like to see fireworks or go to local pares some people have barbecues with their friends or family some people take advantage of the extra day off and go out of on the July 4th weekend 2021 11 men including Mr luch and Mr ABD were traveling on Interstate 95 driving from Island his men had tent anding bag and F they fire and bug and yes some of these men also had firearms and ammunition but not Mr Lucha L Mr Lucha L did not possess any of the Firearms we're going hear about during this he was not in control of them he did not intend to control them and he did not intentionally help anybody else IL legally that weapon in massachus Mr Lucha alent July 4th 2021 at the police station weing for and the day before July 3rd was a terrifying nightmare to July 3D trapped on the side of the high he heard it was an unseasonably cold day it was raining and he was in the first 30 minutes of being on the side of that highway there were four uniformed armed police officers and four police then an hour the highway exit and entrance near where this roof was was being BL and Mr Lucha L and the 10 other men were being completely surrounded by armed police office within two hour the Massachusetts State Police that called in virtually every asset they had special tactical haror police front local police you will hear they called in the bom that there were police drers flying in the air above this group of men you'll hear that the police actually requested come from New Hampshire the New Hampshire Poli they brought additional you'll hear that just before this encounter ended those armored police truck started driving in on either side of the group of men for you hear the police VI something called el a long range actic device to make a loud high pitch noise to debilitate and confuse the before they were arrested and throughout this entire time you will hear that the police were in communication with one person from the group and that was not Mr it was Mr Abdula The Man In Charge the police never communicated Mr until after he was arrested 9 hours later after this encounter now this would be a terrifying experience for anybody to be surrounded by such an overwhelming police presence but as you already seen for yourself Mr luch L is a Latino eight of the 11 men on the highway were left and three Rel this case is about control and intent it's about who was in control of the weapons and ammunition the police found in the Honda pickup truck in Border it's about who had the intention to control those items and it's also about what options Mr have St on the side of the highway surrounded by armed police offic thir with no ability to communicate with anyone except for the men who were there with him I'm going to ask you to think about a few key points during the evidence in the trial to help you with your delation when the trial is over first I want you to pay attention to the evidence you're going to he about what I've just been talking about the Poli response and the Poli pres and as you listen to that testimony and see it I want you to think about how that police response and police for impacted luch action that day and impacted all of the men that day second I'm going to ask you to listen carefully to the testimony and watch carefully when you see some body camera footage about the interactions between Mr abdulla and the police that day and also between Mr abdulla and the other men on there will be no question that Mr AB was The Man In Charge he was in charge of the other men on the scene including Mr he was the person speaking with the police throughout that encounter explaining to the police where the group was coming from and going to and what they were doing he was explaining to the police why he was allowed to have these firearm in Massachusetts and he was explaining to the police why he wasn't going to put them down or ask any of his men to put down in firearm I expected every police officer who testified in this trial is going to tell you that it was instantly clear that charge as you listen to that evidence I ask you to think about what that tells you about who was in control of those and finally I'm going to ask you to pay attention to the relatively small amount of information you're going to hear about out you're going hear that he was on the highway with 10 other men that day you're going he had virtually no interaction with the police until he was directed any camera footage or photos I expect be from Mr ABD not because the police weren't interacting the government's going to point to a few statements that they claim Mr luch made show you a few images of him and try to convince you that is Prov Beyond a reasonable doubt that L best these weapon but what you will actually see is the government has very little information about Mr from that day and they are really stretching to try to these charges GI manager is not an easy job you all went through a very long process before you were on this diry and you would read throughout that process that you would not make any decisions because not bias or stot types or function that PL is can be particularly important because you may not like everything you see and here about this group of men that was on the high on July 3rd some of what you hear may think strange of confus but you will have to set aside your personal reaction and focus just on the evidence of Tri it's also difficult being a jur in keep involing multiple defend like this because you have to be careful attention during the trial so that when you deliberate can effect the government evidence for each separate charge against each separate def Mr and Mr ABD you've already heard you will hear again from the judge when you get your final instruction there is no guilt by association the government can't prove their case against Mr Lucha L by rejecting he associated with someone else who was in possession of those fire the judge will also instruct you when already has given you a preview that merely being present were firearm is found and in fact even knowing a firearm is not enough to prove possession any of these the government must prove that Mr luch had ability and intention to control those weapons or that knowingly and intentionally participate in somebody else's possession of those weap Mr just like every person in America charged with the crime with Presumed Innocent this the government's burden to Beyond A Reasonable Doubt into a moral th that is the highest burden in our criminal legal the government won't be able to meet this burden because Mr Lucha L did not possess those letter for that reason when I have another opportunity to speak with you at the end of this Tri we will at this point take on warning recess uh and I'll ask everyone to we'll try to keep it to more than 10 or 15 minutes I understand that we're sharing facilities so um a bit longer than that and no one should feel Rush on the other hand would ask everybody to attend personal matters asly as possible once everyone's had a chance to do that we Le you uh bear in mind J that we take our lunch break this week at 12:35 so it won't be that much time we'll start hearing evence then we'll break for a Lun so everyone can be back here as close to 10 as possible Co allting follow me please you may be see back session thanan here every the testimony about to give to be the trth youth about the trth to be God I you may proceed morning sir could you give the jury your full name pleas and spell your last name the record my name is Ryan Casey C what you do for living sir I'm a state how long have you been employed by the M since June 201 and what you I went um part of the uh your training of stage lease is there an academy ready go yes what's that Academy State Academy that and um what are the types of what are the topics that are typically covered in the uh training that acem for new tropers um I um everything that's focused on because graduate the academy start uniform roader Iowa um how long is that six months um on June excuse me July 3rd 2021 were you working as a troop of that day yes what was your assignment that I was the um and what was the shift you were working Sunday night shift is that a position that you were working uniform yes you have a a vehicle of Cruiser controlling yes is that also Mark uh let me direct your attention to about 1:15 in the morning on July 3rd were you onol of that yes where wor 195 North pound to okay um what that rainy rain did something catch your attention or Draw your attention at that point that location yes in the right hand break down Lane I observed a word transit B this has a light ell and uh where was um get the right of the travel Lanes right um and what did you do at that point I then activated my rear emergency lights blue lights the face the rear division it in the bra Val behind the transit van to check on the when when you first observed it before pulling over uh were you able to see persons uh around the v no all right when you pulled up um what kind of lighting did you have on the front of your vehicle facing the the V uh facing the van it's just um the regular um Regular vehicle headlights on they uh yeah a spot light we call down which is just a white light that come from the so that's that's the light bar on the top um it's so what did you do at that point I accidented the vehicle uh my cruiser and then I set the walk towards the G make a passeng side of um I know you described being uniform earlier um what was the outermost layer you were wearing for your uniform so due to the weather conditions I was wearing the the high Biz version of a jacket um with uh a uniform P when you say HD what color yellow all right and uh so what if anything that you observe you exited your Cruiser and move toward the van ier um approaching from front of the van a gentleman wearing um camo body with a rifle across the chest um uh we're in relation to the van side of the road you and then I was it was up close to the guard rail between the guard rail and the uh the v um did you have any things in your hands that one flashlight um when you observe this individual what did that individual where did that individual go walk towards me and um is that individual here in the qu today yes did you indicate where by pointing and describing an article that so he's wearing a white top and a head um May the record reflect the witnesses identified from all that the record May reflect the identification all right did you did you end up getting getting closer to this individual who approach we walking each other I kind of more a s and the had individual walk towards um did uh did the defendant um speak to you that yes and what if anything did he identified himself um as Jal and he advised that There Be Few on vehicles they um as you're speaking to the defendant uh were the two of you alone at this point uh we're later joined by another individual yeah um did that happen while you're having this introductory conversation with fairly quickly right the begin of the conversation so if you could describe the other individual where that person came from came from again um in front of that van the transit van um you said want me to describe individual yes please and he was wearing um black part armor um in a similar um camo military dra um where um he also had a rle SL across the sh and um were you able to observe where that person stood in relation to you and the defend he stood um behind ladder in relation to me and then he also it back toward me almost like the down range um Northbound on the highway also then covered his face with hovering when he had first appeared had he appeared to you you know with his back to you or had he appeared you return Yes um uh Did You observe any other individuals join you at the roadside during this time yes tell us about those people Terr there was another individual um he was again he was shorter and stasher U had a almost like a uh with a bu cut glasses U again wear body armor similar camo um gear to the other two individuals were wearing um he did not have a right on um where did this individual stand in relation to you the defendant and the second uh face me um to Jamal's right okay um as you're speaking to the defendant did you make any observations about the front of his clothing and what he was weing so we we bring the uh the body on on the body on see uh El patch a body camera a camera on his chest and also his uh got like magazines magazine went on to the volum you make any observations about the magazines themselves and the colors of they're black um look like mag put right okay um you describe those as ammo magazines on the outside of the body arm that right yes looking at the defend tell whether there was a magazine attached it right yes what did youer about that that one had a a look through window on the magazine where you'd be able to tell if the magazine itself was loaded did you make any observations about the colors in that look through window uh I observed the grassl colors look right um during this encounter uh were you wearing a body warn camera yes um how does that system work in terms of when it recording and capturing audio video so when we have a an encounter with um some of the public whether it be a track stop or um cheing on a s vehicle and show to a crash on that encounter um press the button on the body camera itself um it then begins recording um there's a 30 second bumper Zone prior to when that button is pressed um that shows recording without audio it does it capture the 30 seconds prior to when you hit the button yes so if I hit the button now it's not only going to start recing us now but it's going to get the last 30 seconds of of video what was going on is that right correct is there an indicator um on the camera that lights up so when when that button's pressed it has a red indat forward on thatas okay um you described I believe on Mr V uh camera as well you recall that yes what do you remember about the camera uh it was a different model camera that's issued my our department but again attached to his chest um it had a red um light on it see like a camera lens was like a box like um prior to um testifying today did you review the um reportings made by your body camera on the early morning hours of July 3rd 2020 I didn't um have you also reviewed uh still images taken from the reports I the um as you're before we get to the um when you're talking to the said believe he he described that they were coming from where going where um after initially speaking to him what did you I return to my cruiser um and made a radio transmission to be uh know Trooper working on ship to see if he could U slide my that mean respond to your location yeah after um going to your Cruiser where did you go after that and then uh returns back to uh Jamal at the beer of his and um do you have further conversation with that yes uh what did you ask him it wasn't I asked them U what their plans were um he advised they're going up to me for train um at that point did you know who was driving the van that was on the side of the um did it come a point where you did anything to try to identify any of the people you have now seen on the side of the road so I ask Jamal um if anyone had any forms by identification M um did you ask him for any information about himself and then ask were you provided anything yes we was it just or was it other information he wrote Jamal ABD um did you uh do anything to try to identify shorter individual with the the Buzz haircut or taller individual with the right so the shorter individuals d dral uh I after all gave me back my notebook and Pen I went to hand it um to that individual kind of let them the blanks there um you know you don't have to um you know bu information I said you actually don't um um so a moment ago I asked you about the reportings um did you uh review any recordings prior to testifying this morning yes okay um I'm going to hand you an object ask you to recognize all this I'll show it what are the contents the uh has Clips taken from the okay um is there also a still image on here yes how does that relate to your body it's it's a still taken from that body C and um your entire body warant cber recording from July 3rd what's the approximate length of that whole thing uh 3 hours and are there moments in there where the camera still running but for example you sitting in your Cruis yes are there moments in there where camera still running but you're standing and nobody's talking and nobody's near you correct the drive that I showed this is just clips from that yes and what types of things just generally so we have a record of what it is what types of things are are captured in the clips on this drive conversations with individuals on scene that include Mr L yes you're on ER off for the drive is AIC one no objection no objection without objection be small so I brought an envelope it can go in would Mark the envelope that's fine whatever you're on do you need to actually use Drive show I was G do on we just have to be very careful to return after the it's not actually Trooper would you agree with me this a a black sandis Thum Drive red lettering yeah and um there's audio in those clips on exhibit one is that correct yes okay um did you review transcripts of those recordings prior toying this morning I did and um did you review them to see whether the the transcript accurately captures statements made by the person's in the recording I did are these all transcripts that you're in yes um I'm going to Mark show you this you just take a minute looke you see how it goes line by line and it identifies statements by name yes um based on your conversation with Mr L and participation in these chats are the portions attributed to Mr laer as the voice directly identified yes there's a reference to um somebody in there Will Fredo Hernandez see that page five yes it's a conversation you and that person is that right correct does it accurately attribute to saying what in that transcript yes um there's a reference to somebody named Sergeant Burnham in the transcript as well do you know who Sergeant Burnham is yes um were you with him at some point on the night of July 3rd 2021 I was um the conversation with he's mentioned with the transcript uh correctly attribute statements made by Sergeant Burnham in the transcrip yes I would offer this is uh maybe exhibit 1 a and I have copies for the jur court Council follow along me let me speak to council the head just Logistics listening to and watching the video uh and if it helps you to understand what has being set on the video that's its purpose but if there's any discrepancy that you know each of you individually know between what's on the reporting and transcript that to follow what's on the reporing that's the evidence the transcript is just an aid to you if it helps you to follow the evidence but the recording itself the evidence and that's what you have to go pass it and it's that we just using the one screen that screen is turn right Trooper do you see that I've uh just started up um first uh clip uh the time stamp is 111019 a.m. do you see that I can't see here okay per look at the C top right corner do you see time and um this clip um and Cas can you see um this first CLI what are we about look this is my coach this should be draft trans the transcript uh the clip for this is in the transcript on page one it's not yes what's going on man I need gu I just listen I I I just need to make make sure everything understand you guys that first but um who is the individual depicted in the clip standing behind um Mr lad is that the is that the person you were describing earlier with the um the toall of the two individuals you described earlier that joined you by the roadside yes first name you said um at the end of that clip um you're walking back in the direction of your group that right yes there's a second clip on drive and you see um in the transcript packet on page two the transcript for that yes so you guys have a license on you who's driving uh okay so you have any of identification no so you said you're a militia main we okay and um I can leave you my name and contact so see um you you spoke the uh you guys all Island all right I just the United States yeah whatever wants to give that's fine I mean you guys I just make we continue okay I'm just try to figure the guy driving the you guys make sure safe man don't if you recogniz I uh first the they shot my body camera screens so depicting what just depicting the taller individual Aaron Johnson um fa away second one again is another SP my body camera shows Jamal first approach is made between the fan and the C this third still is a still from my body camera on the right side of the still it shows Jamal standing direct directly in front me and the's right meaning the left side of the picture is uh the shorter individual with the go and buz um I observed on my first account for so is a uh closer look my body camera of that individual with the buzz cut and dco centered in the middle of the picture and uh the part of your body camera where that's taken from what's Happening that point what is this still piting I'm sorry hear that the action from your still from the body camera uh involving that individual what is going on when the still was taken my conversation um with Jal on our first I would offer these as the next exhibit collect with can you make sure that I'd like my preference is to do them G each their own their own number that's interferes with whatever so be there are four of them yes so they'll be two five sorry right put the cour publish these you may Pro um I want to ask question about what we just observed in the last clip from your body the uh the second clip um going back to there there's a point at which um you appear to be speaking to uh Mr Latimer and um you have a notepad in your hand yes call that and you offer it to sort of present that notepad to individual standing next to you recall that yes which individual was that that's the uh shorter individual with the go of the um and you asked for information but ultimately didn't get any that be fa yes um at that point was was he required to give you any identification um after that you went up to the side of one of the vehicles you recall that yes okay now in the body camera would you agree with me that you can see sort of you up against the side of the vehicle but the window is too high and therefore out of the frame yes can you describe um uh What You observe when you look into the window of that van the driver seat um it was another individual with camouflage um gear on um lighter skinned um histic looking male um with facial hair and a short haircut okay and there's a point in the transcript in the audio where um you replied uh about eating a license and and we're not doing this traveling things I believe which all that yes okay um what was going on what was what were you observing what was happening with you with a driver that I was trying to uh obtain is driver and when you ask for that when you present anything by the driver yes what if anything present an identification card um I in your training and experience of the State Police Trooper uh have you been presented with a number of different states identification cards and driver's licenses uh yes uh all states around the country passports I you know time a traffic SP a crash I deal a lot of identification and um what if any Need You observe about the the thing that the driver hand do you know you were asking it was nothing that I had ever seen before didn't look like a driver's license [Music] issue object do you recognize that object and if so how do you recogn uh this is the ID card I was given standing at that table and uh after getting it did you retain it uh throughout after that day and and keep it for your file I didn't is that the same one yes um does it depict anybody on that F it's the uh the picture on the card is the gentleman I was speaking to was taking the drivy of the V is there any difference in the appearance of that individual in picture versus how you observed them on July 3rd uh yes uh he's wearing a fez in this picture the I okay um I would offer this as the next exhibit with the court permission I propose to pass it to the jury and maybe an appropriate point at that point to objection objection to do it yes I'll hear you so I think at this point since it's about 3 minutes before the LUN say startch minutes early we expect you AT3 continue thein all right items notebooks and notes we start the first row Follow by SE Please Mr Thompson so you obviously we don't need to so y just has a a limited probative value um to the extent that the com is already going to be introducing evidence of B trying to uh explain away um unclear legal Concepts to a state this state police trooper and then uh the next uh State Police Trooper well well it's C on the with with this super observing it all um just the how fake and made up that license is is just not uh not probative and it doesn't go to uh prove anything with regards to whether U Mr D gave a b game to the police um in terms of whether he Mr D possessed weapons possess body armor during the commission of a felony um and it goes nothing towards a conwell's joint venture Theory and uh the there's a substantial risk of unfair prejudice against Mr Abdul uh because it came in on the the body warn camera that said we're not doing this traveling thing I think it's fa to assume that the trooper knew that um this would be a sovereign citizen type um C situation he was dealing with didn't already suspect that and um there's just AG greatest that the uh the jury will come to that same conclusion you welcome to say on if you like you're also welcome to start your whichever you prefer so okay go ahead uh m r do you join any objection or no I think it's admissible I think it should come in I expect there will be a number of various identity documents that are going to be admitted and I think are relevant just to be effect that those are the documents that people had on them right okay got to pause here I need to hear obviously to respond the objection but it's past 12:35 mindful our scheduled morning so L say for now the as the objection um let's all try to be back here let's say at 1:25 so we can address the objection and ready to go when the jury expects 13 the court has a car it's right here it's on my when I say right here the record it's on my bench pass me to look at um maybe you should take possession of it again trust so that there's no question frankly I don't want to be um so all right let's be back here at 125 uh and we'll finish here please please be seated course now session um so where we left off the was going to address the injection to the identification provided by the driver of the black um so it's relevant a couple different purposes first of all the driver is apprehended separately from all the other defense it's apprehended in weight feeli about 6: a.m. by other officers he's armed he's wearing similar clothing and body armor he's got a very similar card to the one that he handed Trier Casey at the time Casey approaches him and that's relevant because a it connects him back being the same person second of all the extent that that gun came from the same Vehicles full of guns that the joint venture drove up in um and he's got of those cards and other members of the group when they're arrested have similar cards that tends to connect into the joint venture as opposed to just being you know somebody who happens to be in camouflage clothing apprehended nearby sometime that more um it also establishes that the driver because if you look at when Casey gets the cars the driver is possession of that car similar to other cars by other members of the group who are arrested that morning um it it it can connects them all together as opposed to this being somebody who you know uh maybe got into this the last minute or um you know was sort of an unwitting participant as opposed to a knowing active member of what ultimately became this event um the it's also relevant to the extent that um when there there are videos on Mr lad's body care in which he's referring to the group as you know he addresses them as hey Wars and then gives him a series of instructions about not to tell if if the police ask you any then your only aners would be AST Mall which ultimately they all kind of go they have this like back and forth like I see the card again go ahead and continue with the AR it's not it's not that important so the reason it's all right yeah we have a photograph on the front side but it's he said that Mr Lin refers to everybody is you know his men or the mors or him mors directly who gives them instructions and all these people have similar types of identifications not all of them a number of them um it tends to connect the driver to being in this um and being an active participant the name Will elmusa and the called a life gate you know to the extent that we have to deal with disproving lure know that's a name date of birth that c just can check the records for and the fact that he said that before for this trial Mr is Mr um isn't on trial right so all the things that link him back and I agree if you were on trial then it's certainly critic relevant to show that one of the people that that relevance is dimin where well not exactly because the gun he's Char that he possessed is one of the guns that as a joint venture is subject of so the fact that he on the International Road travel card has um the flag that ultimately appears in the the standoff it's relevant the fact that it lists his address as6 East Malu Parkway in Bronx territory New York Republic also tends to cut against Mr Vladimir's claim that they're all just people from pcket they're all part of a Rhode Island so there's a lot of different reasons that this is um admissible um I am to connect the the objection let me ask you before I objection um well no if the objection is overruled um I think to the extent that mrd bay both um refers to the other individuals as Wars uh makes it relevant that one of the individuals apprehend connection with this case has an identification identifi more National um and I don't discern that there is anything about this identification card that is any more or less and Mr thps think your word any more or less crazy than some of the other ples Advanced for their for example right to drive an automobile without a driver's license for registration um so uh and I'm not I'm not describing this crazy I'm just saying on this whatever that scale is it is no more or less that than those PL so the objection is I'll give this back thank you to and ready for the jury tro case I want to back up so I we've been talking about the car you got from the driver yes yes it is um can'ta call if I asked this who's depicted in the photograph on that chart had you seen that person before today yes he was in the driver's seat of the right is this C in the same condition as it was when you first recovered it yes um I would propose to mark an envelope and actually theous you may it's six I pass while the ERS are looking at that card earlier you you watched a video of um you offering your notebook to Mr laimer and something was written down on you recall that yes I'm going to show you this little tell me what that is so they are ripped off pieces of paper from my notebook and Jal a [Music] name this is what was written in your presence yes no objection OB objection be Mark said for the break we were we watched a video where um you had uh we' gone up to the driver of the black vehicle lad call that yes all right let's play the third video on that uh USB drive which is exhibit one so I'm going to just ask you to hold for a moment um and what I'm going to do is if you could pass the the identification card back to the Crosser and when we have a downtime for example injection being red on um when we're over the headset I'll ask the having a chance to see it or finish seeing it look at it that what I don't want to do is distract your split their exion between the IP card and what's being said what's being shown you could just pass it back on the Crosser I'll make sure the every J has a chance to see it you may proceed put that back in the envelope and um I don't know if the J have their transcripts but um going back to the the transcript that was marked right you see we have a page six we have transcript for that next segment yes because try f um did you then uh was there was there a point at which Casey where um you had a discussion with Mr laimer about filling up the other vehicle further ahead of the van yes and what did you ask and what did you learn from Mr he advised that uh was another vehicle there with was a bridge line that run out of gas they were trying to uh fuel up at the gas sink they had in a van um to prevent any unnecessary stops van okay and at that point had you been up front of the van to go see that vehicle no yeah could you see that there was a second vehicle hold along the breakdown Lan yes going um play the the next clip and the transcript appears on page seven AB do you any license to carry only issue here the individual that from the video closed out that was facing away from the camera was that the same individual you described earlier yes and when you asked Mr L the only when you said the only issue though is that he doesn't have L drive that statement you made that part of a conversation yes who had the two of you been uh the uh individual that was in the driver's seat of the B the one who gave you that card yes play the next clip in on so I driver so he already gave me his info on that license speak the other operat D how we doing sir are you the one driving this no just you just roll the window that so you have a you have LIC Drive yeah a um you've been looking at the transcript I think off and on of people playing these videos correct yes okay um are we basically going chronologically through your body cam footage and Snippets yes show you these photographs you recognize they still my body fridge uh and it's the individual that u s by the Honda fish line that uh identified himself advising that he had the driver's license what's the other photo the other photo is the same gentleman um this seems like it's uh a bit zoomed out but it's uh again this in gement standing by the passenger side of a h bridge line along the C Fair these both fair and accurate depictions of the person standing to the right of the silver pickup truck by the Jersey Beer yes no objection no objection not objection remark exit8 exhibit n um did this person uh give a name to you yes what was the name [Music] Robert um the when you approach the driver's side of the silver pickup truck with Mr lad um was there a person in the driver's SE yes okay uh can you describe the attire of that person when uh camo here so along the lines of everyone else had coun so far that night like a uh reddish a hovering or Hood and at that point I take you you get any identification from that no um play the next clip on the on exhibit one transcript appears on page 10 so we have our control supervis have all right in the me ask you guys fine this right right now the two drivers here can be arrested not la lien notified situation by no means illegal plan my is I don't think you guys said anything are going to be for your safy for our safy we got let me pause that for a second I want to ask you about some of the figures that were visible in that video we were just watching um there's a an individual standing off to the right holding a flashlight uh in a blue uniform who's that Sant burn okay uh what department is he with if you know W police then there's an individual standing um they're looking at the picture to the left of Sergeant B who and holding what appears to be a rifle who is that the left side if you're looking at the photo gentleman ski mask let me back me back up I I I put it up it's time stamp is 1:38 a.m. the individual who standing in the middle of the uh screen that's uh the that was um identified earlier trks okay and uh in this particular moment of the video sort of hard to make the person out but watching the whole video who is standing next to that person um to the left does the shorter individual was identified earlier the buzz cut the go all right and I I've backed it up time stamp is now 137 do you see the green road sign sort of to the right of the black van yes okay and can you see what's between the van and the green uh road sign you see that there's something there uh it individual okay um from your memory of that night you recall seeing an individual occasionally stand in that position uh as you were talking to Mr L yes could you see whether that individual was holding anything in because of her hands uh see camera okay and do you recall in the video seeing Mr ler refer to you being on camera you remember that yes I'll go back and rej the video going have started at 1:38 a.m. play forward we got we got to put for for your safy is what for our safy we peaceful resolution so arest I full offic scratch on that okay what happens when they get arrested so notifi you that we had them is what you request so we can replace that you guys you guys Island you need to show me on massetts so this is where United States it seems like you're trying to prevent us from being peaceful and going on peace Journey which is authorized by the federal laws of the United States and I would know because I serve the United States mine and I took both to support defendent constitution for the United States of America against all enemies very by either so we're try that's if you need to give uset try to figure figure way where you guys can drive yes legally yes to where you guys want instruction tiet who okay car drive away this this is so the I wrot earlier spefic this under that and again if ticket for not having valid registration IAD so so I'm just I'm just trying to make I I completely understand a job to do I'm will to give you inform serious reality these cars might have to get off the road or left where they are they get reister casy in that last video um let me ask you while you were talking to Mr laad what what were you holding in your hands uh could you see what Sergeant Bon was holding in his hands there was like believe at the very end there was another officer standing for of behind started for him could you see any objects in that officer um after having this discussion with Mr Vladimir will you uh provided with any P yes so take as much time as you need then tell me if you recognize what I theal conversation umart from being a photocopy is a duplicate I would say so yes offer I would Mark for identification it be marked t sorry that's Yes you heard at sidebar momentarily and I have a document concerned that may make sense to do it at sidebar actual sidebar sure and while we're doing that why don't we give the jurors back the that's with the uh short hair go te glasses um and then he's standing next to the uh the V the re V about the second third P photographs this still is taken almost from the same Vantage Point again it's uh my cruiser the guard guard the breakdown Lane um to the left of the photo is the male party with the short hair part owner last next to him toward the center of the photo is Aaron Johnson the taller male part with the rle face covering to the right of Aaron Johnson I can't quite tell it a a darker figure but next to that figure is myself wearing my yellow hi jacket in field uniform and left this is uh same vantage point the looks from the two prior showing the guard and the van right there the center of the photo is uh the mail party with the uh whle haircut uh goatsy glasses um to the uh there a figure behind him I can't quite make out who it is um but then in the far back it looks like s bur these is the next three no objection without objection they'll be this 18 through 20 publishing 18 you described this as the shorter individual with the goatee and the buzzed hair yeah that person visible here in exhibit 19 yes okay who's over here that is myself okay and 20 well the individual go is that in the center if I understand you yes who's this over here in the the blue s um I'm just going to go through these last group of photographs one by one we just ask you if you recognize any of the things in okay first photograph tell me if you recognize anything in that phot I uh see the the guard rail the highway uh the van that was there earlier in the night see the back side of Mile marstein and U go to see woodsy area behind the you recognize the person of for the the clothing worn by that person entire of that person a tall person wearing a c with a black body armor with a long rifle face covering photograph yes it'll be for identification next photograph can you tell us what if anything you recognized in that the uh for Trans van a guard rail the back side of the B market sign along IG a big wood line an individual standing in the center he's wearing uh camouflage with a black arm vest on you can see on the arm vest is magazines front of the armor is a okay what is anything youer about the long uh seated in the uh Magwell is a high capacity Dr appliation it would be marked exib G for identification could be heard want to be explicitly f for identification how is it that you recognize a landscape the mile marker the van and the other things you described in that photograph when when did you see those things I saw those things on um July 3rd early morning July 3 dark out and this picture St what about the the figure detected standing to the left of the van do you recognize that figure here uh depicted in that photograph from your time on July 3rd I recognize that figure to um be the taller uh slender gentleman of the black um body armor and rifle that handing you ke foration from where do you recognize when do you recognize things you described recognizing in that photograph van [Music] surroundings I recognize this to be um the area of the highway that I was on July 3rd approximately 1 in the morning the car sign to recognize that van um and the uh the gentleman standing Center of is recognizable as the followers blend gentleman wearing the black party and next photograph you recognize any need the things depicted in if so from where or when is she in this photo I recognize the uh for Transit fan I recognize the Gil I recognize the wood line along with the mile marker sign that was directly next to the I also recognize a left photo is the gentleman with Sak gentleman with the black SK black body armor camo gear long rifle and then just behind him it looks peeking over his shoulder the taller sler gentleman recognized that would that that's the first two you were G this will be h photograph you recognize the things depicted there and from where or when I recognize the for Transit vanan I recognize the M markers L recognize the wood line the card rail I recognize the gentl with a black ski mask black vest long gun and Camo gear I recognize the uh taller slender gement with the black Fest and C Gear with the face covering and I do not recognize the third part lot of photo the one who's Council we're going to pause here and take a as brief as we can possibly manage recess JS and Ed please move Qui personal matters we need to address can and we'll resume as soon as everybody's a chance all right ex who the front row call back R please bring away items thank you involving whether or not the police might arest the defense yeah um earlier you had been handed something Mr correct yes did you see whether um Mr VL any Sergeant de at that uh I recall could be wrong when I recall um was referring to the paperwork enemy earlier um which I had put in my cruiser um s make that want to see it I then [Music] Retreat this is this is after the issue of possibility that arrest was raised yes um during the time that you were waiting at this scene and youve heard persons shouting in the direction officer shouting in the direction of Mr the people with um can you approximate how many different times you heard officers telling Mr laimer that his group should put their weapons down I couldn't it sounds like it's speculation overruled I'll I'll I'll hear the answer are subject to a motion of strike depending may you may what's your best memory how many times you go the officers telling Mr L people to put their guns down I remember a lot of repetitiveness and I remember hearing put your guns down probably say around five times five over five times you ever see anybody put any guns down no when the officers were shouting those instructions could you hear anything coming back in response Mr lad I recognize Mr ladder's uh voice um saying no what's your probable cause uh given the distance could you always make out his exact words or was it sometimes given the distance I couldn't always figure out what he subjects the earlier bench com oper identification yes can you show show it to counil Council had a chance to see this call you've had a chance to see this yes understanding that there are objections discussed at sidebar but any additional injections um as to the format of this given phot no and this uh this version will become uh ex so it's exhibit for identification this portion exity e for identification come exhibit 21 15 we reserve 15 for exh right that's right it's already exhibit thank you thank you for M okay so this will be thank you so you graduate from the academy in June cor yes so by July of 2021 had three years of experience so it's fair to say that prior to July 3rd 2021 you had not arrested anybody for an unlicensed firearm better youy Ed in earlier hearing about about this situation yeah you Ted several times yes you testified in this sport had another hearing back on May 10th 2022 correct yes and you matter correct yes you don't have ask perion but you may you a transcript of your prior testimony there you could there and once you're done is I'm not sure what the foundation I'll I'll set it up better is your memory exhausted as to how many times you how many times project ju live thir 2021 how many times you uh arrested somebody for an unlawful position fire I never have so you prior July 3r 2021 you had not arrested somebody for unlicensed possession of a fire turning your into your body C video I corre when to say that who you call Jamal was not wearing that is for Mr I have the USB is it in the computer no it's in the I think it's on the table trer I'm showing you an excerpt from is uh exhibit one up on the overhead uh do you recall this video from earlier today this is the video is my Approach at the all right the time stamp up at the top right that's 11021 is that correct oh yeah you can get up if you have yes thank you right I'm going to skip ahead right so I paused it at 11043 uh this is your initial encounter with Mr vladimer yes all right do you see his hand in that photograph oh next is he wearing any gloves no gloves so is that his right hand that you can see yes all right do you see his left hand hand uh over his chest yes any gloves on there can't place I'm going to back it up for you a couple of seconds to say that throughout the encounter on I95 you did not conduct any search of either of the two prods yeah and uh if a search was conducted after the incident on side the highway you did not participate in any subse correct I don't know and am I correct when I say that Mr Mr he was outside the C to the best of what you could see when you first saw him correct on part of your body camera you asked him who the dri yes and he pointed out who the drivers were is that correct yes so by the time you approached the for somebody was sitting in the driver's seat correct and same with the H rine somebody was sitting in the driver seat behind correct correct now I thought I heard you say during your drug examination early that you ask Mr Mr for his contact information is that correct all right so I'm playing your uh cliff and that if you need to get off the uh stand to um look at the time stamps go ahead but this is about the uh one minute excuse me uh first hour 14 minutes and 6 seconds on the time stamp is that right yeah all right we're about 22 seconds into the video I'm going to press play for you and uh I can you my name and contact information and so I've just paused it at the 30 second Mark is that the uh first conversation I have with Mr Mr lar Mr Abdul about his contact information yes is your memory exhausted as to whether while you were Wai for M after you uh spoke with the driver of the H VI line as to whether Mr mentioned service Marines B it's a different question that previously asked and well it's wasn't you repeat the question the question or the set up for last the last question you to after you spoke with the driver of the F pickup truck while you were waiting for your full supervisor to arrive one of those clips that we that was played during direct examination mrad mentioned again to you the service of the US Marine court is that correct yes the objections over on your SEC well I me You observe a conversation between and about why Mr did not have his identification on correct yes and he mentioned that because he was taught not to take his ID on yes Mr v d said that he that they had stopped on the side of the road in order to refill their two cars is that correct he did so in terms of uh police action you didn't stop either of these cars for any kind of traffic viol so as a police Trooper you were just checking on the wellbeing of drivers on the side of the road early in the morning now again during that conversation while after you spoke with the driver of the Honda while you're Wai for said to you that we meaning him and I suppose police that they were all trying to come to the same peaceful resolution is it fair to say that during the entirety of your body cam video D in evidence you don't see him put his hands on anybody else's weapons is that corre he doesn't put his hand on any other weapons asking anybody else besides the the rifle that's in his I did not what time did you leave the seat so you were president when the stop team arrived I wasn't you wasn't I was not pres oh I'm sorry but I I was pres as F in um to the so you said a moment ago you left that you want to amend that answer for when you left the scene it it was late morning and I left the scene I was you were present when the stop came around yes and you for those of us who don't know see the stop team is the equalent of a SWOT team yes and so uh can can you explain what the can I call them stop Troopers or stop officers members of the stop call what you want what the the what were the members of the stop team where when they uh greenish Army gra uh the you know military tactical game they look like soldiers as supposed to police off correct yes they wearing body armor yes on their chest and on their back yes and they're wearing ke helmets for yes and they're carrying rifles correct yes and how many Troopers of the stop team did you firster and my my involvement in the scene lesson and lesson as it went on um and also the St team um that early the morning they were all coming from um different parts of the state um so I'm just asking you what B basis I'd like to hear the answer response to the question yeah I think he needs to be able glad to finish his answer so you may finish your answer too um so say am I involvement in the uh ongoing scene lesson and lesson as went on um um there were stop team Troopers that were on call coming from all different places of the state so um you know the stop team trooper that lived in daners say it' be there a lot quicker than some coming from Central Mass um so they were the times that they arrived vared and you know my involvement has seemed very I remember being on scene speaking speaking Direct direct L to directly to one stock team trooper and then seeing them file in as I bless my way on see I mean I there's probably 10 stop Troopers that I can say so the answer to my question was you could see at most 10 Stock teams I I'm not going to and we also had the weight Police Department on scene correct yes and to your knowledge did uh any uh SWAT team or Advanced officers from other departments besides Massachusetts come that morning to my knowledge n like onene as well and that's a a SWAT team consisting of uh highly trained officers from a number of local Municipal police departments who sort of pull together into one larger spot to Cor and uh the stock uh team they had uh Vehicles called bats correct they have a bearcat yes a bearcat or multiple Bearcats I don't know how many they have well they had Le one on see that you correct yes that's essentially an armored person correct yes do you how armor on those things I don't know you said UAV Squad arrived the U drone unit [Music] whoever actually I don't know if the Drone unit was um established at that point but there was a trooper with the Drone there not quite sure on that but um there was a drone there Opera and the search team as well yes that's uh the Acron is s for the search team correct yes and they go out and they they look for stuff in the woods Onre it's se but they're specialized not justd but r b yes all right so we have members of The W field Police Department on C Massachusetts State Police n so uh those are all present yes how many Cruisers did you see follow L I don't I don't know the exact there but was the most Cruisers I've seen seen been and am I correct when I say that there would have been Cruisers stopping the traffic northbound and the traffic sbound as well the answer he knows um over the radio um I know there was St um tra nor right I've published on the overhead exhibit uh 16 do you recognize that photo yes uh that's Jamal uh L of doua bay up on the screen is that correct yeah yes what's he doing with the rifle in his hand I don't know if he's uh swinging it across to gain access to something on chest not quite sure all well the time stamp on that is uh 13448 correct I'm another one of these PL another one of your uh body warn camera videos SK to 13448 oh which is right at the beginning I can play this for you all right yeah so so did you see what uh Mr Vladimir d bay was doing with his rifle in there looks like he moved it to hook it to the side of his body arm so in that video clip that we just played that's essentially exhibit 16 which was up on the overhead a moment ago yes so this still is taken from one of the frames we just saw yes and so Mr L D he's just adjusting his rifle on that photograph yes he's not taking out the pointed at you or any of the other officers correct so let me just ask you and I know no rush whatsoever take the time that you need but do you have much more on the I don't think so what a minute or two all right let me just go back and see what else I got there that is all I thank you TR well um Trooper your excuse for the day but we back Monday thank that would have been not good thank you Monday not tomorrow uh jurors we're going to uh stop here for the day it's about a minute before 4:00 um and as you just heard a reminder uh from Council that uh that concludes the trial meet this week you are not uh you're not meeting here tomorrow there will be no proceedings at all St with or without you um so please plan to be back here Monday morning uh just before 9:00 a.m. I do need to give you some uh some reminders uh and remember that on Monday morning I'll ask you've been able to apply with these instructions so the first reminder that you're all aware of is that you may not discuss this case the evidence in this case or anything about this case with anyone including each other at any point until the end of the trial uh when I say that you uh may not discuss the case or the evidence OB face to face conversations phone conversations but importantly it also means you can't use the cell phone tablet or other device text chat email tweet blog or post anything about this case social media other electronic you may use those media as you normally do that's fine you may not use them to discuss mention Cas in any way please continue to have no communication with the lawyers in this case and I to have no communication with you also please continue not to watch or listen any coverage about this case in the traditional media social media or anywhere else remember my two instructions if you are exposed that any media coverage please do your best to minimize any information the information that you take in as a result of that exposure so if it's something on television or radio change the channels quickly you can or turn it off something in the print media Turn the Page or the newspaper or the magazine don't go back to the article if you see something online either go as quickly as you can to a different part of the website or probably just see when it comes to online just go to a different website Al together second instruction if you are exposed to any type of media please do not mention it in any way or you refer to it to Dev jurors instead when you're next with the core officers let them know that there's an issue what you are exposed to so they can let me know issue I rest finally don't do any research or investigation about this case online or otherwise or allow anyone to do so for you you call from my individual conversations with you that that means you should not go to any locations that you here referred to during the testimony although you don't need to avoid for example 128 in Wakefield if you're normal travels and you're your ordinary life take you past that on that section of 28 you're not violating the court order if you simply drive by what you shouldn't do is slow down or stop there and make observations or do anything other than watch the road and sure you ORD would and keep going safe uh also don't use Google or any uh other type of online search engine or any type of resch to to up anything about this case trial people involved in so with that I hope you enjoy your long weekend make get good use tomorrow whatever you want to do with it and we'll see you Monday morning before 9:00 a.m. all right the front row hold my back please bring all your items thank you please be seated this cour in session just before we break I want to clarify my ruling to thear by just for the record what I want to make clear is that the is Right prosecution can introduce statements of defendants which are in fact party opponents uh for the truth of the matter ofed without violating rule because of the exception for State party opponents uh generally speaking defendant may not introduce their own other court statements for the truth than have asserted because they are not statements of a party opponent they their home stat so in that way the rule and this is true in both criminal and civil cases the rule operates it is not symmetric not um however I don't think it's all liit for the defense cross exam about statements that the Comm introduced on Direct um because once they've been introduced on Direct there in evidence and available for use for all purposes so I want to be clear that to the extent that Mr Thompson as I saw it was simply asking about evidence that was already in evidence that was permissible but I want to also make sure the def understand that doesn't mean that all statements depend whether introduced EVS or not are admissible they would have to be independently under some exception to the years so just my that is what I was going for when I introduced those statements that is how it appear why I just wanted the the ground rules to be clear so in Cas come up again people understand what what what the basis anything want need to address before we break to the week yeah have a nice weekend you too have you given a list of witnesses for Monday and rough as best you can witness for next so I anticipate we'll finish Acy we'll do Donovan and organ who were supposed to testify today anyway uh Chris Kean Harold soua were both essentially booking officers and some other relatively minor issues um I may try to maybe maybe Charles Lise um I believe transported Mr bre but I I'll if there's anybody else all you know that's fine get ready that's fine right everybody enjoy and so there you have it yep it all worked out in the end and thanks for hanging out with us UNF factor for ODS make sure you hit that Thumbs Up Button you're subscribed and ring that Bell for notifications so the next time PR a video you can meet a live chat with everyone else and leave a comment in the comment section tell me what you think and a huge thank you to all of our fax or frauds channel members and if you'd like to become a member click on join right next to subscri subscribe or the link in the description now if you're still hanging around thank you why not hit that Thumbs Up Button subscribe if you're not already and ring that Bell also leave a comment in the comment section tell me what you think till next time I'll see you soon