Oh, good morning. I am Destiny Raven Graves. That's capital D, lower case E S T I N E Y. Um, hyphen capital R, lowerase A, I V Y N colon, capital G, lower case R A, V S. I am appearing specially and not generally. I am here in good faith and under the pro under the protest solely to address the matters raised in my plea abatement. I am not here to delay the process but to ensure proper identification and lawful jurisdiction are established in the record before any further proceedings. [music] >> City of Detroit, Mr. Barry >> versus Destiny Graves. Case number SP1902232 counts one and counts two. SP190223 4 counts one and counts two appearance for the record please. >> Sberry Jr. On behalf of the defendant state your full name is Graves >> Graves still here. >> Unmute yourself ma'am. Start your camera and state your name. >> Start your camera please. I'm trying to figure out how I just had it right before. Oh, okay. Hello. State your name. Good morning to you. >> Yeah, >> good morning. >> I am >> I am Destiny Raven Graves, the beneficiary of the estate name Destiny Raven Graves. I am here on special visitation to address the matters in my abatement. and I am here as a friend of the court and I stand by God as my witness. >> All right. Good morning to you. Today is the date and time set for a pre-trial. I'm going to put you in a breakout room with Mr. Barry. He's going to attempt to get you an updated offer. Keep in mind if you don't like the offer, you have an absolute right to a trial. Okay? Join the room. Let us >> join the room. Let us know what you want to do when you come out. We'll pass the matter. Uh, and let's go back on the record with Miss Graves. Miss Graves, I've given you an opportunity to speak to counsel. Council, what does your client want to do? >> Your honor, you are unable to engage. >> I am not um a client of his. He is very disrespectful. I am not a client of his. >> What do you want to do, ma'am? >> I would like to address the matters of my abatement. >> I don't know what that means. Did you see that? >> Did you get the I sent you? >> I have no clue. I have no clue what that means. I have no clue. >> You don't know what what means again? >> I do not know what this stuff means. >> Can you Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? You don't know what means exactly? >> I'll elaborate on it. >> Okay. Well, I'm here to address the matters of my abatement. I have it here. Right here. I sent it to you also. >> Yeah. I have something that you sent to me. It has no basis in law or fact. >> What doesn't have basis or law or facts? My abatement. >> This is the abatement stuff you're talking about. Maborate on >> What do you want? I'm not going to sit here and waste people's time or my time. What do you want? You want to try it? Wait a minute. Don't talk when I'm talking. What do you want? You want a trial date or do you want an offer? >> Do I want a trial date or what? >> A offer. An offer to resolve this stuff today. >> I would like to address the matters of my abatement before moving forward. So we can >> go ahead. Go ahead. Go make your record. >> Okay. So first I would like to say I am not a I am not a citizen of the United States Corporation. Therefore, I am not an employee of the United States. Who is a subject I'm sorry, who was subject to the status regulations defined to the IRS code, which applies only to the contract employees to the US contract employees. I am woman. I was created by God. By God with the creator is subject to the creator and nothing else. >> That is that it ma'am? Well, as long as we can address the matters in my abment. >> All right. We you you've addressed it. You've made your record. >> Right. So, we're you can sit there all day. Pass the matter. All right, Mr. Graves. Um, let's go back on the record. Uh, I'm just gonna I don't I don't want to hear any more about this. uh this abatement or anything like that. All I want to know is do you want a trial date? >> Where's Miss Destiny Graves? >> Okay. Can you hear me? I'm I'm going to I'm just going to Let's get a jury trial date for this young lady. >> Excuse me. I do not consent to that, your honor. But if you >> You don't have to But stop. Stop. No. Don't say anything unless I speak to you. You don't have to consent to it. >> I'm going to give you a trial date, a jury trial date. You bring this stuff up amongst your peers and let them let them make a decision on it. Okay. >> Can I just say this? >> No. I do have the right to I [laughter] have I have the right judge said no. That means be quiet. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Jury trial. You said jury trial and what else? >> It's a jury trial date. >> I'm going to set a final pre-trial date to make sure that the officers appear on that final pre-trial date, which will be the day before the jury trial date. If the officer does not appear on that final pre-trial date, we'll dismiss the cases. If the officer does appear on that final pre-trial date, we'll move forward with the jury trial. >> Okay. So, we're not addressing the matters of my oate. >> We've I've let you make a record of that, ma'am. You you mentioned nothing about what the court is supposed to do with this stuff. I told you the court doesn't even know what you're doesn't even know what you're talking about. This doesn't have anything to do with the Michigan court rules, Michigan rules of evidence or anything. That's the what the court follows. If you can't follow that >> process, I do follow I follow the court rules because I'm following due process. >> I have the right to due process, >> right? And we're giving you >> July 14th. [clears throat] That's your jury trial date, right? >> Yes, it is. Yeah. July 14th. >> This is your due process, your trial date. July 14th is your your uh jury trial date. >> I'm asking for due process under the Constitution. That's what I'm asking for. >> And that's what you're getting. >> No, I'm not. Your honor, respectfully, I'm not getting that. >> All right. Well, then you do you take it up with uh the appeals court or whoever you want to whoever you want to take it up with. [snorts] >> Okay. Cuz this is breach of the constitution. >> If that's what you call it. I don't call in the constitution. I call it I call it >> you're not you're not allowing me to speak up for myself. >> You're telling me what I have to do. >> Listen, I gave you a chance to speak. I gave you a chance to address your abatement. I told you about the abatement and how the court feels about the abatement. >> And that's what I'm trying to do here. Honor >> say you're not going to convince me by any more words, by anything else you have to say. We've been down this road many times with you. Okay. So, say what you want to say. I'm going to set a pre-trial date and I'll give you this time to say what you need to say and uh we'll move on. >> Okay. So, I'm just going to I'm going to address my baby now. Give me baby give me one second. One second. Please give me one second. I'm going to address the the matters in my favorite um and that is I respectfully demand civilian due process as required under the constitution and equitable principle of w on which this nation was founded. I will continue before this matter may lawfully proceed. I require cl clarification as to whether this tragal recognizes me recognizes my constitutional rights including my rights of meaningful due process, my rights to face my accuser, my rights to challenge jurisdiction before any further action is taken. I have been issued citation without any verified complaint made under penalty or perjury by a lawful injured party. A citation issued by an officer without sworn testimony from an injured human being does not meet the constitutional requirement of an accuser. A court of equity will not proceed without proper parties. It should not. Not done. Give me one second. There is no injured party, no sworn complaint, no damaged property, no affidavit of harm. Therefore, there is no adversal controversy of court to adjudicate according to accordingly. I petition for abatement until a sworn verified complaint is produced. Jurisdiction is established on the record. My constitutional and equitable rights are affirmed in writing. [clears throat] And then we have the equitable basis for my abatement. The maximum is of equity. >> Miss Horn, can you put your can you put your appearance on the record? >> Yes, Horn. >> Excuse Excuse me, Miss Horn. Miss Sha Lockard, please stop. >> Go ahead. Go ahead, Miss Horn. >> Thank you, Tamika Horn on behalf of the city of Detroit. >> All right. I'm just uh putting your appearance on the record because I'm I'm giving Miss uh the Miss uh Graves her due process with a jury trial, a right to a trial. Um u Miss Horn, the jury trial date is going to be July 14th. I expect all all people to appear appear [clears throat] on the final pre-trial date of July 13th. Uh uh uh all [snorts] parties appear. >> To be clear, your honor, the matter in my it will not be addressed today >> on July on July 13th at 8:30. That's going to be the final pre-trial date. So make sure your officers are summoned for July 13th and the 14th. I expect them to prepare. If they don't appear, we'll dismiss the case. >> Okay. Thank you, your honor. We will be ready to go. >> Okay. And >> can I ask you a question? >> No, you don't ask me questions. You go ahead and finish making your record. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, no, I'm continuing. Your honor, of equity would not suffer a wrong without a remedy. [clears throat] Equity regards sustenance over form. He >> just reading. Are you reading? >> I am reading because I want to make sure that I have everything. But I do I would like I would like for you to verify. >> Stop. >> Are you reading this that you filed? Is that what you're doing? >> Your honor, I am reading that. >> Okay. So, we don't need to go any further. I noted that you have this in the file. I placed this in your file. Um, what ruling do you want me to make on this? What are you asking the court? >> I am simply asking the court to address I'm sorry to um address the matters of my abatement before moving forward. >> I don't know what you're talking about abatement. I can't address >> this the abatement that I'm trying to read to you. That's my abatement. The the I'm asking for due process. Proper due process. That's what I'm asking for. I'm asking for the judge and for the >> and the court feels court feels that it's given you proper due process. >> Do you you feel how do you feel that way if I haven't if I haven't um if you haven't addressed any matters of my abatement >> cuz I don't recognize I I don't understand that stuff. It doesn't have anything. If it's not if it's not in the court rules if it's not if you can't >> it's in the constitution your honor. >> All right. If you but cite the Constitution, cite the section of the Constitution. I'm not I'm not going any further with this that your your your your abatement or whatever your is that you filed is in the file and I and matters not >> that is in the file and I've given you a jury trial date of July 14th at 9:00 a.m. I've given you a final pre-trial date of July 13th at at 8:30 a.m. If it's nothing further, Miss Graves, I wish you the best of luck. I do have I I would like to say something your honor. >> I'm I'm asking I just for the record I would like to know will the matters of my abatement be addressed? >> They've already been addressed >> and and how did you address it? Can you explain it to me? >> Like I said I'm not explaining anything to you. >> I'm ask Okay. So the part of my of my >> This this this concludes this hearing. Okay. That's all I'm gonna say. >> So, it will not be addressed. My matters will not be addressed. >> Have a good day. If that's how you feel, have a good day. Best of luck. >> I don't want to say how I feel. I want the court to tell me what's going on so that I can know how to move forward. >> I'm not telling you what's going on. You go to the court rules and do that. Have a good day, Miss Graves. Best of luck to you. >> But my matters will not be addressed. >> They have been. Have a good day, Miss Graves. Last time I'm going to say it. Best of luck to you. And if you continue on, I'm gonna hold you in contempt of court. Okay. >> Yes, your honor. >> Yes. >> Best of luck to you. Have a very good rest of your day. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> All right. Go ahead, Miss Horn. Back um to I'm sorry, but I just wanted to make you aware of what you'll be dealing with on the um 14th. >> Okay. Thank you, Ron. I appreciate it. >> All right. City of Detroit versus Destiny. Uh, Raven Graves. Case number SP1902232. Counts one and counts two. SP1902234. Counts one and counts two. Appearance for the record, please. [snorts] >> Elwood Sberry Jr. On behalf of the defendant, state your full name, Miss Graves. Good morning. >> State your name for the record, Miss Graves. Good morning to you. >> Can you hear me? >> Yes. State your name for the record, please. Good morning, >> Destiny Graves. Good morning. >> All right. Officer Delakio, good morning to you. Can you state your name, badge, number, department for the record, please? He was here. I don't know where he is now. Um, Miss uh Mr. Barry, I believe this is going to be set for a jury trial tomorrow. >> Yeah, this is a final pre-trial, so I would think there'd be an attorney at all. >> Yeah, I don't I don't know if M she didn't request an attorney. [snorts] Miss Graves, are you prepared to handle this tomorrow on your own? I I don't think you are would be, but I'm going to ask you. >> Am I prepared to handle it tomorrow? >> Yes. >> Yes. Are we Are we going to discuss anything today or no? >> I don't have anything to discuss. You haven't filed any witness list. You haven't filed any motions. Um I don't know. I'm I'm I'm almost positive you don't know procedure. >> No, I know procedure. I know I know that there are certain things that I have to wait on um before I make certain actions. Um but I would like to discuss the matters of my abment. >> All right. Why don't you just talk to Mr. Barry and uh see if he can um understand what's going on and he can try to work something out. Uh Mr. Barry, she'd like to discuss some things. Today is the date and time set for a final pre-trial. I did have Officer Do Zazakio appear. Uh join the room and uh and tomorrow is uh set for a jury trial. Join the room, please. [clears throat] We'll pass the matter. All right. Um Mr. Barry, let's go back on the record with Miss Graves. >> Where where are we at, Minister Barry? Uh, we're going on to trial, your honor. We could not communicate. She's talking about abatement. >> I know. I can't communicate with her either. >> Come on into the trial tomorrow in person. Ma'am. >> In person. >> Yes. In person. >> Okay. So, we're not going to discuss anything today. >> Well, we've already discussed everything we're going to discuss. You're going to get your your your right to a trial, a jury trial. All right. In person. Come on tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. Let me let Miss Horn know that as well to bring her officer in person as well. Tomorrow morning jury trial. All right, Miss Graves. I'll see you in the morning. Have a great one second. I have a question. Give me one second. I want this. I'm not answering any more of your questions. Tomorrow, the jury trial at 9:00 a.m. Okay. >> I see. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Best of luck to you. >> Thank you. >> Um, Miss Jenkins, I think you can go ahead and and get prepared with uh Miss Graves. Um, I think that's a good time now. Judge, would it be possible to print out the jury instructions or somehow I I would like her to be able to look at those. >> Um I am going to uh forward you what I was sent um from the city. >> I have that. I guess I can show her on my computer. Um >> um this is um 60 some odd page 65 pages. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. I will sign off and come in. [snorts] >> Very good. Do you want me to print it out for you? Would that help you better? Whatever needs to to facilitate you to get this uh this done quicker. >> I'll come in. I'll I'll ask and I'll come in. I I'm just I'll be there in one minute. Thank you. >> Um there's um so you do need to go over there if you have anything that you would propose to change in them then we'll allow you to speak on that. So I will print this out and then it's already see one thing. It's in the in the first uh one it's the jury of uh of of 12 but as you know this is a misdemeanor so there only six is only uh so just little things like that probably need to um be addressed. So I'm printing that out for you now. Yeah. Do we have jurors waiting? >> Just you can ask to see if they're waiting and see if we can get this. Listen, she comes in here with all of this what I call nonsense of filing abatements and I [clears throat] don't know what she wants to do. We've offered her an offer. She did not accept the offer. And with all of this abatement and I'm not peering on behalf of Destiny Grave, I'm protecting this court because you you're not going to come back and I've already filed grievances filed I believe against me from Mrs. Destiny Graves. So I'm giving her her full right to a jury trial. If she wants to take an offer, she can take an offer. >> Okay. But if that other than that the this whole of abatement thing and all of these documents that she's filed, the court doesn't understand that [snorts] >> and we've had conversation after conversation about this. >> I don't want to agree with either. Well, I don't I mean, you know, I I So, and and again, you are not uh I I I I I listen, why don't we just let her proceed on her own? That would be the best thing to do because I do not want to put you in this situation either, and I should not have asked you that, and I apologize. So, Miss Graves, you have a copy of the jury instructions. You can go over those jury instructions. If there's something in those jury instructions that you want to address the court and say that I want to not have this in these instructions or something, then you can address the court and we'll deal with those accordingly. If you want to take a deal and you don't want this jury trial, you can take a deal, but that's going to be up to you. Okay? So, um, why don't just I really do apologize for putting you in this situation. Uh, and um, you know, I do appreciate you coming in uh, outside of that to do that, but uh, let let Miss Graves uh, I've given her an opportunity to get an attorney. I've given her all the opportunity in the world. So, I can't I don't know what else the court can do um, in order to make sure the process is fair to her and the court is protecting itself. >> I understand. >> All right. Very well. I know I'm not here, but she's a woman. [clears throat] >> All right. And listen, I apologize if I misspoke. I don't believe Miss Graves has greed me. Miss Graves, I apologize if I misspoke. I'm just protecting the court from any of that. You get a lot of grievances for proper defendants and people that are I know you said it before that you're not claiming that you're sovereign, but all of the pleadings and the and the responses that you give to the court are suggesting that that that's the what that's what you are are are are doing. So, if I most if I misspoke, I apologize. Miss Miss Graves, is it Are you sure this is what you want to do? Huh? Positive. >> Be a $145 fine. It doesn't abstract to the Secretary of State. Therefore, it doesn't carry any points. We'll close it out after $145 fine. All right. Is there anything [laughter] >> for give me a basis just because uh it's Miss Graves? >> Let's call it city of Detroit. >> City of Detroit versus uh Did she fill out an advice of rights? But I guess if it's civil infraction, it's fine. I do have an advice of rights in here. City of Detroit versus Destiny Raven Graves. Case number SP1902232. Counts one and counts two. USP 1 190 2234 counts one and counts two appearance for the record please. >> The city of Detroit P70303 officer Delakio is here in the building and available for trial today. >> I did see him. I have marked appearance please. >> Tana Jenkins PH2663 on behalf of Miss Graves. I did have an opportunity to speak with her and she asked me to. >> Absolutely. >> Sorry. Oh, Tana Jenkins, >> step up to the microphone is probably >> Tana Jenkins 2663 on behalf of Miss Braves. I did have an opportunity to speak with her. I know she previously indicated that she wanted to represent herself, but she asked me to represent her today. She is here in court. What is your name for the record? >> Step up to the microphone so she can get it clear. Please. >> All right. Today is the date and time and is set for a trial. We were scheduled to have a jury trial. You [snorts] understand? It's your right to have a trial by jury. Correct, Miss Graves. >> And do you understand that you uh can um uh you the offer is pleading to an expired plate civil infraction and it's $145 fine. It will not abstract to the secretary of state and the other matters will be dismissed upon stipulation of probable cause. You understand that ma'am? >> All right. And you want to take that step up say you have to talk. You got that? No. Yes. Thank you. >> You got that? >> Yes. >> All right. And you want to take that deal, ma'am? >> Yes. >> On behalf of your client, um, Miss Jenkins, you stipulate to the face of the ticket as an active factual basis for that responsible plea. >> Yes, judge. >> You stipulate the probable cause for the dismissal of the other matter. >> Yes, judge. With those stipulations, I'll find your client responsible as to uh as charged to the expired plate and I'll dismiss the other matter. Go ahead, Miss Jenkins. Why Why should I give Miss uh Miss Graves a break? Let me let me let me let the record reflect that Miss Graves's mom is here. The court does recognize that, ma'am. And the court does appreciate that for the support of your daughter. Absolutely. >> Judge, Miss Graves is a young woman. You know, many times young people are of limited income. She is employed, but she also has a young daughter for whom she provides financial support. Um, [snorts] I know [clears throat] she was previously experiencing housing challenges. >> I know all of that. And so she's definitely someone who is trying to earn more and she's a smart woman and I know she will earn more but at this point in her life she's of limited means and so we're asking that fines please be w you know the the the issue really is um you know miss this Miss Graves it just bothers me and I'm not going to hold this against you for any fines and costs that that that that your council has asked me to wave for you. But it just bothers me that you take the time and you uh the court has no issue with filing motions. The court has no issue with any of those things that you want to exercise your right. This is what we're here for. But you take the time and you file these things. I don't know where you learned this from or got this from, but it has the courts has no basis in law at all. I would suggest that whoever whomever you have got this information from and you've been dealing with this and I can only imagine you got it from someone that you need to stop listening to that person take yourself to law school and go and get your own law degree >> because what I do recognize in you and what the quality that I do recognize in you that I don't see a lot of in attorneys is that you're persistent and you you you you want to be heard and you and you you're going to make sure that you're heard, that's a good thing. But when you're trying to speak, you have to speak in terminology that the court understands. And this whole stuff about abatement and things like that, the court has you've done this before and the court has no understanding of this. We operate off of uh these Michigan court rules, the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of of of of Michigan. You see how big these rules are? Nothing in those rules in these rules are that you file or in that documentation. So, about giving you an opportunity to uh about giving you a chance to to pay this um and and to not pay it. I'm not going to grant that. There's got to be some kind of punishment because what I see and what I believe is that I believe Well, one thing, Miss Graves did get a valid driver's license last time. Excellent. >> And I was very surprised about that because she was pushing this narrative of this abatement and all of that stuff, what I call sovereign citizen stuff the last time. And then lo and behold, I see Miss Graves again. And I'll see her again. I believe I do believe I will. >> She's going to law school. You won't see her until >> you may. So, I do want to say that I respect the court. I respect you [clears throat] and I understand that you look at the the way that I go about being in court as sovereign sovereignty. Um, I understand that what I say isn't recognized in the court. However, I also do understand my rights and I I know I have to stand by that. So me standing by my rights is in no way, shape, or form to disrespect you, to disrespect the court or make you even feel like I'm being irresponsible. The way that I see it is me being irresponsible and me holding other people responsible. Not saying you, but we all have a job, too. You have a job. The bailers have a job. The um officers of the court have a job. And the uh officers, you know, outside has a job as well. The officer who stopped me has a job as well. I'm not here to blame anybody. I never was. That was never my intentions. My intentions was to simply stand on my rights and protect myself as you will be doing the same for the court. So that's all that I really wanted to say. Like I said, I respect the court and I respect you as well. Well, I must say this and and and I do find it a little bit disrespectful at times when you continue to push those things and I've already ruled on those things. When I rule on something, your right is to fully go to the next level and appeal my ruling and to uh and and if I got it wrong, that's what the how the system is. uh you you do not continue after I made my ruling and I've let you I've given you opportunity to put everything on the record, haven't I? >> I've always given you that opportunity. You do not uh go and challenge my ruling by continuing to push the same thing that you've been pushing. What you do if you do not like my ruling, you take my ruling to the next uh court uh and appeal my ruling. That's how the process works. the process. You're not going to get anywhere by continuing to say, "Are you going to let me be heard on my abatement after I've let you be heard on your abatement and I've told you your abatement? I don't recognize that. I don't understand anything of what you're saying on that." So again, this is why I am finding her the $145 because there's got to be some sort of punishment in this because you are still what you said, standing on your rights. So, I still believe that you don't feel that you have to have a plates on your vehicle. You don't believe that you need to be driving around in a registered vehicle. You don't believe that officer Zakio wrote you those tickets in Can you stand up? Officer, can you state your name for the record, please? >> Did you get that? Or does he need to step step up to the podium, please? Officer [snorts] does not Detroit police badge 706 >> and good morning to you and I do say he was here in on time in the beginning. So uh so that is why what you just said is that you're standing on your rights. >> Go ahead. >> I did have an opportunity to confer with Miss Graves. She is going to put plates on her car. I think what she's she's standing on the rights of all people because the social system is broken and she's advocating essentially for change and equality. Um there's a lot of racism in policing. There's a lot of disproportionate minority confinement. There's a lot of brutality and she recognizes this and this is her effort to change that and she does believe that the system is broken. But she is an intelligent woman and she is going to maneuver within the system while still doing what she can to advance change. And by that specifically, she is going to register the vehicle if she hasn't already. And I think this idea of law school is perfect for her because she needs to we need spirits like hers who are truly dedicated to change and dedicated to equality and dedicated to eliminating a lot of the racism and other oppressive elements that are creating inequality and still operating within the system. And I think that this has been a powerful moment for her. And we're grateful to the prosecutor and we're grateful to the court and we're grateful to everyone else in the court for the patience. >> And let me say something to you. I'm well I have the same skin complexion as you. I understand that that is not always fair and the system is not always fair especially because the color of our skin. Yes, >> there's no be getting beyond that right now, but we are all expected to play in the rules. Never once have you said that this officer was unfair to you because of your race. Because had you said that, we would have we would have addressed that issue, too. I have never had anybody come in here and say this officer has done anything because of your race. I respect the fact that you say the system is broken and I understand that the system is an imperfect system and we're probably will be an imperfect system but with people and advocates like you can be properly you can help to balance the system out. That's what I try to do on a daily basis as well because I'm not going to allow somebody to uh any of these officers in any way to run over your rights because of the color of your skin. But you do need to operate in the system. If you don't like it, part of it is going to the legislature and part of it is exercising your right to vote. party, you may want to consider being of some sort of of of getting involved in politics to help write that system. We do need better people. We need better lawyers, but the way you go about doing things is not recognized [clears throat] in in the court of law. All right? So, I hope that you take this. This is the second time we've been down these roads. I was very pleased and happy that you got first of all and first and foremost your housing. That was the most important thing that I can see. Second of all, you did get a valid driver's license and it blew me away. I was surprised. Now, I would like you to Hey, we'll give you a copy of the court rules. As a matter of fact, here, give her that. All right. That's a 2005 copy. I'm sure that not much has changed in that. 2025. Yeah. Uh uh take that. You can start with that. My brother told me before I became a lawyer, I need to read every page of that. And I did. Did I remember every page? Probably not. >> But I do know how to find out where to go to get the information. >> All right. >> This is very expensive. On behalf of the people, I thank you for doing this um for Miss Graves here. Um I was just telling her mom, my daughter has a similar name as her middle name and they always call her mom. I'm like, "Yeah, she's fine." But I I'm really proud of you. That's a good book because I think that in government we get those free every year. That's a good book that it's only a year old. Nothing's changed. [laughter] And I and I I do feel for you. I didn't want to go to trial. No expired plates, but you got TO GET YOUR PLATES. That's a >> jury. I got to pay for insurance. my email. I can't afford insurance. So, I know your position, but I have to pay it. So, squeeze it out of somewhere. About $15 to pay it. So, I understand. >> Step up. Step up. >> I did not experience any like racism or anything with the office at all. >> I I know I know you're just talking generally about the system. I get it. I get it. I just want to make sure that we're all clear and all all on the same page. And I just want to I just wanted to make that clear. But um and and and and lastly uh this >> um you know I I I really I really like the way you present yourself. I do I do like the way that you I want to see more out of that out of both sides of the attorneys. My job is to to I want to see good lawyer. I want to hear good arguments. I want to I want you to put me in the position that I have to make the decision because I hate ruling against any side too much. I you know I wish everything could work itself out, you know, but I know that they can't and I do have to make a decision. So you take those take knowledge of those things. Well, first of all, if you and and then and then let me just talk about the insurance. I say it and I'll say it on the record. I'll say it so everybody here. I do believe that the system is against black people. I believe that the rates of the insurance are too high in the city of Detroit, one of the highest in the country because we are taken advantage of because we are an all black city. >> Yes, >> I do believe that. act. >> I do believe the power of the insurance company to now while I do understand that insurance is important because if you hit someone, this other person is injured, somebody's got to be taken care of. But the power that they can compel everybody to have insurance, that's a very powerful power. And the only ticket, well, I won't say the only one, but a no insurance civil infraction, that $45 reinstatement [clears throat] is probably one of the only reinstatement fees at this time that will dis that will suspend your driver's license. Maybe on a maybe on a reckless driving $45. Uh second, I got uh maybe on something like that. But that's a powerful lobbyist that lobbying system that is able to make sure that the that the our our legislature in 2021 says we're not going to recognize any $45 reinstatement fees. Although they have you have to pay them. You're not going to recognize that as a tool to uh to um [clears throat] suspend your license except for no insurance. That's powerful. >> It is powerful. I've had cases where people have fled the police because they didn't have uh their license because it was suspended because of insurance and they ended up going to prison for multiple years. So, the consequences are >> your judge knows as a prosecutor I avoid that charge. >> I I do I will say Miss Horn does take into consideration. We look at document tickets. These are document tickets. Nobody said that Miss Graves went over the speed limit. Nobody said anything like that. Now, you could have gone over the speed limit. That may be why you got stuff. I don't know. But nobody wrote you a ticket for these are just document tickets. And they're saying that you don't have your proper documents. So, Miss Graves, there is a there is a lot that the system needs, but the system needs uh good advocates. and the and and in order to be a good advocate, you have to play by the rules. And I know the rules can sometimes be stacked against you. Trust me, I understand that. But at the end of the day, you you got to fight. And and and and your mom told us you all got some fight in y'all. [laughter] You and your sisters, right, mom? >> Yes. >> All right. So, put it put it toward Put it the right way. All right. You're going to pay this $145. I'll give you um opportunity um to to get on a payment plan or you can do community service. What do you want to do? >> See, you want to pay? She got money. I'm going to give you until [clears throat] August the 13th, 2026 to pay it. Pay it at any DVD that kiosk in the city of Detroit. I'm told you can upload the div that app to your phone. I thank you, U, Attorney Jenkins, and I appreciate attorney Jenkins advocating for you not to pay the fine. That's what she's supposed to do. But in this case, uh, she didn't win this one. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Best of luck to you, Miss Graves. Thank you so much for sitting in with us. I hope you enjoyed your day. >> And, uh, >> have a delog. We'll see you soon. I always see him out there. >> All right. >> All right. No, let's segment. >> But more Yeah, much more than this. I did it. My Anybody out there from Wala, Washington? My Anybody out there got a birthday tonight? Well, there were times I have had a few when I more than I could chew, but through it all when there was no I ate it up then spread it out. >> I don't remember how the rest of it goes. [laughter] If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you hit the [music] thumbs up button. Subscribe if you haven't already and ring that bell and leave a comment in the comment section. Tell me what you think about today's [music] verdict. And a huge thank you to all of our Facts or Frauds channel members. Your support helps keep this channel going and [music] it's noticed and I appreciate you all. After all of that, Destiny took a plea [music] deal for no insurance and the other charges were dismissed. But the absolute chef's kiss was the [music] judge basically giving her a career counseling session. He encouraged her to actually learn the law, understand the rights [music] she keeps standing up for, and even suggested becoming a lawyer. And I'm here for it because nothing says personal growth quite like [music] going into court to fight the system and then leaving with homework and a potential career path. Until next time, I'll see you soon.