you put the jelly on the glove is that when you used her hand to rub your penis yeah I didn't know he could do that oh my God that was horrifying that was horrifying I've never seen this before in my life I know I talked too little bit about what was on the phone um I don't know anything that was on the phone on the phone contained images of mar before and after her death as well as videos of your son with her need to sit down wish she still like when he was doing that no I don't oh my God that woman was 98 years old just living out her days and here's my good son my this unlike what you have seen before this case is far more complex than a sexually charged impulsive teenager driven by emotion it's a story of interconnected roles where every individual involved had a significant and defining part to play shaping the outcome in ways that are both shocking and revealing we will explore three main aspects in this video the motive that drove gavon Ramsey to kill the manipulation he displays in the interrogation room and the mindset that led him to make such devastating choices 98-year-old Margaret Douglas was reported as missing to The Wadsworth police on the morning of April 9th 2018 the investigation was active and the suspicion was building on different people but soon enough something horrifying would be discovered Margaret was found murdered in her home in Wadsworth Ohio investigators discovered that she had been strangled andly assaulted after death her body was hidden in a closet covered with clothes and a vacuum cleaner um just like right here okay okay okay you're not going to need these right I'm not going to guarantee that home okay put him back there if I he it I'll get it on okay it was Cindy and Howard Leisure who made the horrifying Discovery they stood Frozen in shock unable to process the brutal reality that Margaret was in the house all this while crammed into a closet after her death Margaret was your aunt aunt yes your mother's sister okay your mother's sister yes so I'm trying to put together a timeline I know yeah um so I kind of I talked to David mhm and you know sounds like he's her day to day yeah he keeps he keeps keep an eye on her and then my understanding is that you guys are kind of the closest family that she has yeah okay so how did you guys come to know that Margaret was missing or no one could get a hold of her okay David called us Sunday this past Sunday whatever I don't know what dat that was okay and I actually was on the phone with my daughter on my cell phone and and I so it had to be sometime between 4: and 4:30 because I was on the phone with my daughter on my cell phone and I I could see it come up on the TV where it say caller coming in you know but I didn't recognize the number you know so I didn't I didn't you know think you know I didn't really question you know um so it was sometime Sunday I say between 4: and 4:30 sometime in that range and what did he say when he called did you talk to him I did not Howard talked to him I I from what Howard said to me David wanted to know if we had Margaret out okay because you know a lot of times on Sundays we did that was sort of our day you know we'd go to church and we' come we just come up here and you know we'd take her to the store or do stuff with her um understanding the sensitivity of the situation it was the investigator's job gently encourage Cindy and Howard to recount the events leading to their Discovery or build a timeline for when this could have occurred at what point in time did who called our Police Department uh when we got up Monday morning I said to Howard you need to call the police department because something something's just not you know Steve hasn't seen her David hasn't you know David hasn't seen her Jan hasn't seen her cuz you know they went in the house and and and um I said something's you know it's not right yeah I said you need to call the police department today cuz something's not you know right that something's not right here and I think that's I think they told Howard they were sending somebody out to go through the house okay yeah I think that's what they said how about the state of her house it's pretty much like that it's just like that okay when when we come up anybody comes over they have to give her two days notice okay and she'll straighten up the downstairs area where they see and she never wanted anybody to go upstairs to see okay yeah so it's always a little bit messy yeah I was never allowed upstairs until we started being more of the caretakers and then there something I'd have to do upstairs or so she'd try to clean that area of the house up and have the other door shut and how many times did you guys go into the closet I went in twice when we first got there first thing I did was open the closet but I had to move that heater from in front of the door it's never there can you tell me how it was positioned in front of the door it was flat against the door where had just put my fingers on underneath the top FP and I lift it up and set it out of the way first time I looked then I wanted to make sure put it back way it was so I moved the path okay and then I guess my wife was telling me today she was in there twice okay then I was in and the third second time I went in one the lady asked the police officers is there a key that we can possibly lock the front door okay I'm think closet next to it it was me I'd have a skeleton key cuz that's all took mhm hanging on a nail or something inside okay so I looked a bare F under around see if there's key there and there wasn't and I went to close the door and some of those closes slipped down this is after my wife got the coat out okay so I threw those back trying to throw them back up start and close the door again and that's when I noticed the tennis shoe so I triy to pick it up I could pick it up I'm thinking what's holding the shoe so I might I grab another piece of clothing and th it back and it see I've never seen this before in my life okay white you know and I touched it was cold felt clammy but it felt like Styrofoam to me so I V it come so I moved another piece of clothing and that's why I said go down like this and I felt the upper part of the leg and it felt the same way I'm thinking why she got Styrofoam in here what is this then it hit me took you a minute to realize that it was her in there yes it did okay that's when basically we left the house I've never seen I'm sure I do all the time but I never yeah it's not something you get used to it no matter how many times you see it and to me it didn't look like flash or skin that's what just took you a minute to realize what it was oh yeah then I oh god um and nobody else she didn't you know have any problems with anybody that not that I know all time she was Margaret B mil so just about this she would sheep she just W her she I mean not that I know I never heard her say about any kind of disagreeing with anybody or nobody you know never heard of mention anything about family members who find the body often struggle with complex emotions like guilt and anger in addition to grief investigators have to consider this When approaching them for information ensuring they don't inadvertently add to their distress I'm sure you seemed like a very smart woman I'm sure you put together that she did not go in there by herself she and put that heater in front of the door not no we we we are very much aware of that okay I I just talked to few people and they just don't seem to be oh no no that doesn't seem to be clicking for them so that was the first thing I almost and why why our brains work that way I don't know I don't know why our brains don't I almost said to to someone when I cuz I was the one who got in the closet first and I I almost said why is this heater here but I didn't I didn't say that but you thought to yourself that's weird I did that was the first as soon as I walked over there and I said to in my head I said why is that heater there but I I guess we were emot you know I guess we were in a situation that you know we had not been in before and we were stressed yeah that's a good word yeah well she didn't get in there herself I know she wasn't going to heat her by herself for cover myself up I know that and I have no idea you don't know I'm hoping there's enough DNA or something to lead to somebody yeah what do you think should happen to somebody like that be honest yeah I said go to prison with a label on tell telling people what you did I won't argue with you about that one yeah and then let the inmates take care of you but know that will never happen so well they find out they have ways of finding out but yeah for a 98 year old lady to do something like that mhm and you can't think of anybody that would want to hurt her or that would gain anything but I can't imagine if she would open the door for anybody you don't think she would or you think I don't know if she would maybe if somebody said they were collecting for cancer maybe so she something like that she might be easily tricked yeah I mean she was sharp as attack but if somebody said I'm collecting for Cancer Society she might have says well let me make a donation and she went and got her wallet cuz I can't find you know they didn't go through anything it looked like how would they find your wallet that's the only solution I come up with so the house was messy and it but it didn't look like yeah no nothing was opened up or dumped cuz we were robbed once and we know what they do mhm so and every doors were all closed and everything look like it normally looked other than the Clutter which she always cleaned up before we got there right anything that happened that night I mean I know it was very traumatic and you might have a hard time sorting through everything that happened that night but anything that anyone said to you that night that made you feel uneasy or think that's weird or you know you know sometimes when when bad things happen it's at the hands of the people closest to them obviously so anything that anybody said it said off alarm no no at this point the investigation was wide open there were no clear suspects no obvious motives and no Trail pointing in any specific Direction everyone was asking the same question who could have done this but right now there were no answers only more questions what I do my that sit in this armchair oh that would be great I S over there again if you don't mind he doesn't sit with his equipment really oh God I'll take let me turn my ringer down I was trying to reach his dad but he's at work and he's not let me answer his phone the killer was out at large and the cops had no leads so they began investigating minor crimes in the area and suspicion finally landed on a 17-year-old boy gavon Ramsey we've had a lot of goings on in your neighborhood lately now yes yes and probably more than the general public is aware I'm sure I'm sure um more than one inent yeah so more than one incident so okay uh unfortunately um we're trying to see if you know they're all related right um Gavin does your mom know why you're here I think yeah he said he climbed on top of the church yeah so there's got to be more to that story because I wouldn't have gone down here and pick you up at pool if that's what you did yeah Gavin's first and second interviews could be an easy study in contrasts the first interview took place shortly after after the crime with investigators still Gathering evidence the atmosphere is tense as the detectives seek to understand the events without fully confronting Gavin with all available evidence so we were just walking around he didn't even drive like we just walked oh he walked from his house on Nucleus mhm oh jeez and then we met up at derling and we weren't really doing anything and we went over the church and climbed on top and then we W like into the courtyard but that's all we did as Gavin spun more lies the truth seemed to fade further away and the Darkness of his deceit grew more overwhelming now you did more unfortunately you guys have left behind some very telling items okay if if we're going to get to the bottom let let's just make it the truth all at once let's deal with it and get it done 17 yeah you're you're a kid so you're not looking at as much trouble as so you snuck back in the house there right after that yeah and just so you know we did stop him I'm sure he said he told you that said he texted you that and let let you know that he got stopped did you know he left his phone yeah he told me yeah and your green lighter he got stopped on the way home good yeah you guys do anything else in the area no he told me you were talking about like car thefts and stuff but um that's not anything I'm involved in you talked to him already yeah he texting me like he's got computer okay good grief so you guys didn't go into any cars you know what it would make me feel a lot better now if it was just the two of you that went into the cars um yeah you no cuz cuz of the other issue in the area I'm sure I didn't even know there was Cara oh God yeah you guys didn't now would be the time to tell them okay cuz we did we processed the cars we did fingerprints and DNA he's notably defensive and reluctant to provide clear answers when was this recent time that he got in trouble on he has not had any freedom at all I mean he literally goes to work and home probably 3 months because he makes bad choices and we're just don't we don't want that for our kids so he literally has no life Gavin we've had some really serious things happen in your neighborhood and in that area okay we had a car jacking oh my God and the suspect is a young white male with a nice complexion and blue eyes is that you no it's not me I I would know the first thing about jacking a car well it's a little more to the story but you know you didn't take anybody's car have you ever used an app called grinder no how do you feel about gay people I'm not gay oh that's okay but and I'm sure you guys know about the elderly woman that was found to oh my God that was horrifying that was horrifying there's a lack of emotional engagement here which may be a coping mechanism in response to the gravity of the situation his body language and tone suggest anxiety but also an attempt to maintain control over the narrative Kevin you know anything about it no that's honestly probably five or six people to talk to is that what you're saying Gavin is exhibiting a closed body posture which is a clear indication of defensiveness and discomfort Gavin is not forthcoming with the details about his actions or intentions leading investigators to struggle in extracting critical information about the crime G let's at it this way onestly is always what's best I'm not holding anything back like you've already gotten yourself in trouble so I know and I don't even I don't know what to say is there more because you know it all comes out it's not that there anything more is what the [ __ ] dude I'm I'm mad at myself I'm so mad at myself honestly I don't even want to live at home anymore I I don't know I just I'm not [ __ ] normal I just I need to live somewhere else like in I don't know some halfway house or something I honestly would not care why would you want to live in a halfway house what what is so wrong about living at home no there nothing that they do it's me like everything I'm putting them through I'm costing them thousands of dollars conting a heartbreak i' honestly probably never made it either good proud I don't I don't do anything [ __ ] good stop cussing it's a word I well it's disrespectful Gavin's mother's presence during the interrogation changed the Dynamics entirely Gavin's emotional state suggests a mix of anxiety and a desire to control the narrative as he attempts to manipulate the situation by showing vulnerability you're making it sound like it's no big deal right now I I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you or you or my mom I'm just saying like right now you're maybe it seem like oh you just went you know to to us there's more serious things out there yeah I know but then I go to court and it's completely different like last time the cop told me oh like whenever I got the felony like yeah it'll be you know blah blah blah it wasn't even Mak it not b and then next thing you know I'm on probation for 6 months with a felony two this me did were these cars all unlocked or did they they didn't break they were all unlocked so what you just walk through the neighborhood trying people's cars what you do is someone did that to my car that's so upsetting and scary I I understand that but it's really their own fault for not locking no I don't blck mine half time did you sneak out last week no so you had nothing to do with that because again none of that stuff is going to be me what I did was last night this in our general area we walked around honestly you two actually leave for a second what's that you two actually leave so I didn't talk to her yeah that okay with sure the depths of the horror he committed that fateful night were Beyond imaginable he couldn't make his mother hear all that research on criminal Behavior shows that some offenders especially those with attachment issues might find it difficult to perform violent acts when a maternal figure is present but for others their actions might be driven by a desire to manipulate the family dynamic or prove power Gavin's request for his mother to leave the room can be seen as his attempt to control both the interrogation process and his emotional Comfort without the emotional anchor of his mother right now on my patreon you can watch one of the most disturbing scenes ever recorded on an interrogation room surveillance camera It's a combination of desperation and carelessness that resulted in something incredibly shocking this video is not suitable for sensitive viewers as it is extremely unsettling you won't find it on YouTube but you can watch it and many more exclusive videos on patreon.com Stranger stories Plus the car Dagon it okay it was me I'm going to be honest about it but the way that he explained it that guy that's not right that grinder thing yeah I have been on it and this guy was like the first at time that this happened and I told him like I was 17 and everything and I wasn't planning on doing anything with him it's not my style I was just like he a 4ye old man trying to get with a 17-year-old so I was just going to rob him it's like it's still messed up but against what he's doing I don't really think it is and then the whole carjacking thing I didn't I never even left Overlook I literally like I got in and he's like what should we go to the back seat I'm like yeah sure so he got out I S locked the doors and hopped in the driver's seat and just drove around messed with him and then I left so then you got out and left yeah I didn't damage the car I didn't well we knew it was there you know when he finally walked somewhere to get it home and we knew there was something more to the story that he wasn't telling us yeah I didn't damage any of his stuff I just like he have his wallet no you could easily notice he is avoiding direct eye contact with the interrogators for individuals who commit heinous crimes making or avoiding eye contact carries different implications than it does for the average person their choice to avoid eye contact may not stem from guilt or shame as one might expect instead it could serve a practical purpose lying becomes easier without maintaining eye contact I I didn't want to say that in front of my mom are you gay no that's not it like I didn't have any to do anything sexual it was just for him being back CRA of a person to try and get with a child basically at what point in time did you tell him how old you were over text is when I told him and that's why I decided I was going to do that is it text on your app yeah okay why were you on that app really just for that reason to find guys that are that low but people I guess that want to get with kids mhm like it's karma really like if you're going to do that then I'm going to rob you and you told him how old I was 17 you told him you were 17 what what was his response to that he was like okay he was down to meet so that's when I decided I was just going to take his money and leave him getting the payback I guess I don't know that's what like made me even get the app and do all that not because emotions or like feelings towards other men is that all yeah that's all of it you didn't hurt that old lady did you no and that's what I was pissed about earlier what were you pissed about in the Gavin Ramsey case women played a crucial and multifaceted role not just as victims or bystanders but as key figures in the investigation and subsequent resolution of the case the gender Dynamics at play in this scenario Gavin's murder of Margaret his request to speak with a female cop and his mother's presence in the interrogation room shed light on significant psychological factors you're like oh you like you killed her didn't you I really feel like you did I'm like no I didn't so people are saying that yeah that's it's making me really mad it really is that's what my mom was saying too is like what she thinks two things that could be is like a grandson nephew like cuz my brother's friend his dad works for some County and he was saying that like her entire family was like in her well and they were all getting like money and stuff so he was saying like one of the grandkids or nephews or I don't even know if it's in the family but they could have done that to get money or just some junkie in wassworth which that would not surprise me yeah just going to break into a house to get some money or something they a p I'm sure your mom get out there freaking out yeah she probably thinks I'm confessing to murder she've been in here so long how you going to tell your mom if you want me to tell her do you want to tell her often perpetrators feel more comfortable speaking to a female detective because they perceive them as less threatening or less likely to challenge their narrative aggressively Gavin's manipulation of gendered expectations whether it was through his interaction with his mother the female detective or ultimately the victim Margaret reveals how this 17-year-old boy leverage gendered norms and roles to manipulate emotions and control narratives um well we talked a little bit about the carjacking situation um it's not it's not what you think okay it's not a gun in the face and I'm going to steal your car um there's an app called grinder that people use for hookups and I wasn't hooking up with the guy I was I planned on robbing him because he was trying to meet up with a 17-year-old like I didn't go on the site looking for like sex or anything like I'm not gay I went on there honestly like a catfish kind of thing I don't even know what that means that means he made a profile that said he's 18 or 19 and they start chatting on the app and he says I'm underage I'm only 17 and the guy says I don't care let's meet up anyway and hook up I don't know so they talking a lot yeah and he said let's do this I closed the front passenger door and he closed his and then I locked the doors and he was locked out and I got in his car remember I got in the driver's seat and I cracked the window and he was you know like kind of blah blah block CU my car I'm like no you just tried to hook up with a child like I'm still a minor and then like I never even left Overlook parking out with his car I literally went up turned around and then like messed with him a little bit like I would go up to him and I gas it a little bit and then I turned around and he came up to the door and I'm like where's your wallet where's like can I have my phone I'm like no but where's your wallet I like I'll give you your phone if give me your wallet cuz I was going to take his money he said he didn't have it and then um like I looked away for a second he like grabbed the window and tried to like break it and then I took off and like parked up by the dumpsters and he was gone when I gav you mind going out with officer Cooper and I could talk to your mom just for a minute yeah okay I just I think you it doesn't matter we'll get it afterwards yeah oh my god do you have any concerns about him hurting himself I tell you l no that's the feeling I got when he was getting really upset he recently um like he's on and off for years hising doer like I she's been good for and she's fantastic love her but she has a connection with him he would talk him around he just going have a SE up [ __ ] all right thank you for coming in here um the reason I want to talk to you is a little bit about Gavin M um I mean obviously PR with everything that's that's going on do you guys talk yeah do you um he ever tell you about anything he's doing or what's going on as a world um well I mean he did tell me like about um the car jacking he did say about that yeah what did he say about that as the case developed questions arose about whether Gavin's friends had any suspicions about his behavior leading up to the crime did they notice red flags was there any odd behavior or did Gavin keep his true intentions well hidden that's where Haley Smith comes into the picture would you think you could do something like that yeah you do like that um I don't know I'm I'm not going to lie to like cover his ass because he's screwed right now anyways um last February he told me that he has talked about murdering people and it doesn't bother him and um he feels like he could kill someone in Cold Blood and not even care about it one bit but then he told me that um he has he would never do that because he has more common sense and he doesn't want to sit pres what kind of person is he um I honestly believe that he's a sociopath he does not he doesn't he really does not care about anything one bit like he will have a feeling for some like a little bit of a time and then the next hour he will not he he won't care about it because I remember he texted me one time that he wanted to get back with his ex-girlfriend and like they were talking at this like little get together and he was just being like so mean to her and then he was like I just realized I don't care about anything she just walked away crying and that was like late at night and then I texted him back in the morning and I was like go apologize or her tell her you're sorry he was like no I don't care it's like he has these feelings that he cares for stuff and doesn't actually doesn't and then like he start he started smoking weed and he like stopped being so angry and he was being nice he nor angry all the time he just have these mood swings he go they were crazy just he never cared about anything and he was angry all the time but then really once he started smoking weed he was like happy and he was like a joyful person he was actually you could talk to him and he wasn't like I don't know stff I do remember there was one time who told me like he wanted to like meet up with someone like catfish them kind of okay and just hurt them somehow how long ago is that Haley's involvement in the case brings an interesting layer to the story she was a close friend of Gavin which placed her in a complicated position when the crimes were uncovered her role in The Narrative isn't one of direct involvement but more of an observer perhaps initially unaware of the darker aspects of Gavin's personality okay um um you know I mean obviously you're here um of your own free will yeah uh you're not in arrest you're not being charged or anything like that you want to talk to us is that correct absolutely what are you talking about um the Douglas murder I forget their last name I'm sorry um it hasn't uh not that I've seen uh the name hasn't been released on who the suspect in custody is but I'm pretty sure who it is uh my best friend Gavin Ramsey why do you think that um we got in trouble um the other day and it just matched I guess what we were doing and then what the suspect also did in the past and it's hard to I guess say exactly but it it's pretty obvious it's him what if things that we did in the past um meaning what I guess I keep saying things in the past a couple days ago I talked to detective shimo sir okay I understand you guys tried to break into a church and didn't break into a trailer a couple days ago talking about yeah and then you broke into some cars before no okay go on um I'm sorry miss my TR thought oh yes and it said that the suspect was involved with that too which is how I can kind of correlate the two together and then from things of like talking in person with him uh he's brought it up before what do you what do you me you brought it before um I took it as a joke before which uh I see that was not the way to handle that um he told me that he did it um you got to explain I I'm sorry right now I know you're nervous but right now you're telling me stuff that don't make any sense I know I'm I'm sorry so how about this just relax what did he tell you he did um I can't I can't say when for sure I don't remember we were talking in person it's not run out in text messages or anything um he brought it up that a lady was killed like five houses down from where he lived and how crazy it was and you know we're talking about that and what I took it as a joke said that he actually did in any crime case the role of an accomplice or someone who has the opportunity to intervene but doesn't can be incredibly complex Braden's actions or lack thereof before and after the crime could speak volumes about his awareness did he choose not to question Gavin's Behavior or was he so blinded by their friendship that he couldn't see the signs uh he brought it up that happened I saw on a Snapchat story it was a picture of the cops in front of the house house investigating for the initial response or whatever he said someone got killed five houses down this is crazy like that is crazy and then he told me that he had several people ask him if he's the one who did it and know haha LOL I had like seven people ask me uh if I did it I'm like yeah that's funny he's like well I kind of did it and um I believe this is actually in my phone I have I don't remember if it was Snapchat or text so if it could be looked at I'm not sure of um but yeah he I believe he said the words exactly I did that and it was one of those like you played off as saying it was a joke just to kind of see how I guess people would react to it and um I reacted I I still thought it was a joke but I still showed that you know that's not that's not cool that's not okay it's not me I guess the contrasting behaviors of Braden and Gavin in the interrogation room Braden sitting comfortably while Gavin lies on the floor crying reveal a lot about their psychological States guilt and the roles they played in the crime he's brought it up in the past um that heast wanted to kill somebody you men sent to in conversation um yeah yeah I don't believe that's on text at all he has I guess real bad psychological problems it's very obvious um and I've I've tried to help him several times I mean I still was I'm sorry we are very um humorous people we I mean would you rather be sad or laugh all day we would choose laughing so we're always joking around so he would bring that up you know we throw a couple jokes and that's that and then we would get into serious deep conversations about I guess you know how he's feeling inside if he's happy or not and tell me that he just feels empty I'm sorry you're fine man I didn't know we could do that can I get your water or something man no be get right back in okay it was time to interrogate The Mastermind himself a second interview occurred after significant evidence had been collected including videos found on his phone this context likely influenced his willingness to confess more openly as he realized that investigators had substantial proof against him you sure I can't get you a drink okay I I know telling me about it doesn't give you much relief just ch fact that I ruined my life kin what happened to you Margaret's underwear all right yeah there was a bit of an altercation like she wasn't up whenever she was going through the phone okay so did you kind of rough it with her then a little bit like off the couch on the floor and her underwear got torn then yeah so when she died was she on the couch or on the floor floor were you on top of her then kind of like straddling her yeah and do do you use one hand or both both did you squeeze it or push her against the floor or both both and you said you don't remember she was bleeding at that point well I mean only reason I can think of bleeding is when I put my hand over her mouth so you were hold when you were holding your hand over her mouth you might have pushed too hard and maybe made her nose bleed yeah so were you in her house for a little while before you woke around I mean I like I came up fr the porch and I didn't even know what I was going to do and I looked in the window and everything I don't know I felt like going into a house is like the biggest adrenaline rush I could get I guess so then I tried the door not minute that just happened to be unlocked was it the front door or back door or back door the male detective's tactic of mirroring Gavin's body language and speech patterns is a well-known psychological strategy mirroring helps to build rapport and makes the suspect feel that the investigator is on the same wavelength open the door I just listened I didn't hear anything so maybe nobody's home and then I go to walk around that corner I'm still going slow but I see her and she's I don't know like sleeping or something and then I go to turn around and hit the chair and it made a noise and she woke up and she started to scream at that point you said yeah because like when I hit the chair I like turned back around and I looked and she was there staring at me and started to yell and then went for the um charity what it looked like he has become more open about his actions providing specific details regarding the murder this change indicates a recognition of the evidence against him and perhaps a desire to mitigate his culpability by expressing regret now there's a couple of videos of you kind of peeking over the edge of the couch and videotaping her when was that all done that was on the same night why why did I lie about anything that was stupid it's okay you went to the house earlier no like I've never went into the house before but like I went in and I was being quiet and everything and like how it happened like I wasn't lying about that but I did you know like I turned the corner and did see her and you hid yeah then I hid I like I was taking my phone I was taking pictures to see if she was awake I throughout the interrogation the detectives subtly presented contradictions in Gavin's statements they allowed him to tell his side of the story first but as he gave different versions of events they sub pointed out the discrepancies which induced cognitive dissonance in him this made Gavin question his own narrative further increasing his discomfort and possibly leading him closer to revealing the truth how long did you stay there before you put her in the closet that was probably like 30 minutes I just kind of sat there and I didn't know like what was is going on like I was still in shock from it I guess it was like adrenaline and shock at the same time so like one second I'm like I don't know Dr the next thing you know like over I don't know what's so what did you do with your gloves when you left I thre away where at in the trash can the cops found 14 images of an elderly female corpse in Gavin's phone the images included two images of the Margaret's face and showed fresh injuries around her open mouth there were eight images of her breasts there were four images of her genital area what was the purple stuff that was on there I get it that there's a whole piece of this that you don't understand why you do okay I understand the whole piece that you don't understand and I get that did the purple stuffff have to do with the whole piece that you don't understand why you do no purle stuff was that jelly I don't even know where that came into play at did you maybe use it like kind of as a lubricant for something is it a part you don't understand or is a part just embarrassing in your own mind you know what I mean in your own mind it's CU it's okay none of this is okay well it's not okay I'm saying we understanding if it's an embarrassing part is not sure if we understand that part you know what I mean it's okay that we we understand it that way you put the jelly on the gloves is that when you use her hand to rub your penis yeah the main question here is why would a young boy decide to do something so evil the first reason could be the desire for control and power next we have actual deviancy third as he already highlighted at some point he wants to feel some thrill and all these reasons connect to one bigger issue psychological problems prior to the murder Gavin exhibited signs of severe psychological distress reports indicated that he had intrusive thoughts of violence and had been diagnosed with conduct disorder characterized by a pattern of violating societal norms and the rights of others his mental health history also included substance abuse which may have exacerbated his violent tendencies I think that's why I broke into the cards and stuff because it's that risk factor and all I've ever done is take risk because that's the only thing that makes me tenture drug adrenaline yeah like I don't know my think feels real with me when I'm having a drenaline it's like all right you feel alive not like there's meaning to you right I don't I don't know about meaning but but you understand like you feel like it feels different it's like I like I don't know how to explain that any bad stuff inside you goes away I guess so your whole attention of going in the house was just the adrenaline being in somebody's house yeah I to rob the house it's just the the the sneaky thrill of can I get in somebody's house and get out and get away with it yeah but if the door was locked I would have just walked away I would have been like I'm not going to try and go open a window or climb on the roof and go in I would just left just like a car a car is locked G statement so are highly revealing and speak to a dangerous mindset these comments indicate a sense of entitlement and a complete lack of remorse or empathy for the victim he is rationalizing his actions Shifting the blame onto the victim by implying that she somehow invited the crime by leaving the door unlocked his emotional shifts appear calculated at times which means this 17-year-old boy is doing the best he can to influence the investigators Pur ceptions of him he's leaving no stone unturned from playing the sympathy card to victim blaming or a rather sad attempt to rationalize his behavior are you worried about what your family would think um I know I talked too little bit about what was on the phone um I don't know anything all the phone contained images of Margaret before and after her death as well as videos of your son with her having sex with her um engaging in sexual acts with her need to sit down was she still Al when he was doing that no I don't believe oh my God this isn't happening this isn't real I found he probably been leaving the house as frequently as he can and just going through people's vehicles and you know trying to break into different places and it just escalated to the point where he thought how going we try the door and that's how we ended up where we're at um how did she done did he do we can't I can't discuss those details did he do I there's nothing there's nothing that's been formalized okay I mean anything we say would be speculation we don't have an autopsy we do know that it was by physical Force okay we do know what was an exterior Force I guess that's the best way where to describe so what's going to happen now well at the present time he's been transported to the Juvenile Detention Facility and he'll be held there oh my God oh my God the nature the nature of the charges are such that it's what's called a compulsory bind over okay I don't even know what that means it means there's two types of bovers and when a when a juvenile somebody who's 17 years old there's a there's a discretionary bind over there's certain types of cases where there's an evaluation made as to whether or not he should be tried as an adult and then there's a compulsory bind over and a compulsory bind over it's almost automatic it will be it will be tried as it will be tried as an adult both my parents are yeah my my daddy just buried him on the 21st I just I watched my daddy airo in March so I thought that you were going to just I wish I could I there was just you know there was comments on his phone or you know oh it doesn't matter I just want to say was Braden involved in any of this not that we're aware of at this point okay cuz I'm telling you I'm going to tell you right now you watch you keep your eye on that braen what because he is cored and taking a hold on our son for the past four or five years and all the [ __ ] that has happened my son my son is not like we're a good family we this isn't I know I know that but I mean I ra when this happened I'm just F we were just thinking that woman was 98 years old or 92 I think 92 no she was 98 years old just living out her days and here my son my son did this that mother all these people out here and it's my son if anybody can get you through this and get you what you need to fix whatever's going on with you it's your mom that's thing I don't know if this can be fix because it doesn't feel like it's some regular emotion this feels like it's natural and I don't want it to be I don't anything can be fixed yeah Gavin has exhibited a noticeable shift towards being more emotionally expressive he's showing signs of remorse and vulnerability which contrast sharply with his earlier demeanor Gavin's dramatic display of emotion might be a manipulation tactic many criminals particularly those with narcissistic or Psychopathic traits use emotional outbursts to elicit sympathy or to try and confuse investigators are you sorry this happened yeah I'm really sorry that I did all of this were you sorry about all of this before you that c yeah like I I constantly like I think about it a lot and I I feel like bad about what I did like I I don't like I feel bad and I know it's wrong but I can't express the emotion so it seems like what I'm saying is a lot like if I say like something about my mom you know I cry or whatever it's like okay it's being honest but if I say like I'm sorry for what I did like with Margaret and I don't have any emotion to it it sounds like I'm lying and I don't really care but that's not it you can't make me believe that my decision wasn't the ultimate cause of all this to Simply say I'm sorry to a victim's family that's not enough you can't undo their heartache you can't undo our heartache Gavin was sentenced on charges of murder aggravated murder kidnapping gross of a corpse and aggravated burglary in January 2019 he received a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole thank you for watching if you like this type of content and want to support the channel there is a patreon link in the description below you'll be able to watch videos with zero ads and some that are too controversial for YouTube and you'll be supporting the channel at the same time thanks again for sticking around and I'll see you in the next video