[Music] flashback among other things. It's it's a bit more to it. Your honor, that's the issue. So, I will based off of the things that you stated, that's not what my understanding is. From my understanding is I was attacked by some people and I was defecting. Sir, I I know you don't want my representation, but I would advise No, no, ma'am. No, ma'am. No, ma'am. I would advise that you not talk about anything that happened. Please don't ma'am. I appreciate that. I I'm aware that, but like I I'm aware. Like I said, Nina Judge, I told her something that I might say could come back to haunt me. I'm already aware of that. So, thank you so much, Miss Melissa, but please do not intervene. Once again, back to you, your honor. From my understanding, I was assaulted and and I have and and but I and I am shoulders once again. I I have never told anyone. Wait, I don't want you to mute me, judge. I This is going back to this situation. Okay, thank you. I never told anyone that I am Lee Ta. Not one time. I have I have reiterated I am showers ta not just to you your honor guys. So to to to be redundant for the record, okay, I have reiterated that Lieutenant is a nonprofit organization. I am not a shy. I am shoulders. I am appointed to be an administration author. That's why I'm here, but not a shy for lieutenant. Welcome to facts or frauds. [Music] Good morning. We are on the record in the matter of people versus Latavis. Trishad Thornton. This is case 25203 FY. May I have appearances for the record, please? Thank you, Honor. George at the behalf of the people. Thank you. And Mr. Thornton, could you state your name for the record, please? I am the I am shoulders in here by way of executive office for the table of nonprofit organization. That is Mr. Thornton announcing his appearance before the court. We are here this morning for a pre-exam conference. Um, Mr. Anid, it is my understanding that Mr. Thornton has declined representation. However, Mr. authority at every appearance. I need to remind you that you have a constitutional right to be represented by an attorney and that if you can't afford an attorney, the court will provide one for you. Um, I am particularly proud of the superb public defenders we have in this court. However, you may also uh retain any attorney you wish. You will get to choose the attorney. You would have to pay them. You have a constitutional right to represent yourself. But I have to warn you that if you proceed representing yourself, you would be held to the same standard as all attorneys who have gone to law school and passed the bar and been admitted to practice. So the court really can't give you any breaks or help you at all. Is it your wish to represent yourself, sir? Mr. Thornton is aware of the courtroom, the quorum and the the standards and procedures that must be upheld by a person in representation of of a party. And as again I I I shoulders I am aware that I I do have constitutional rights, not just the ones that were mentioned here before. And also that the exercising of a right is is also an expression of a right, which is an invoking of a right, which is a way that a right can be used. and to and to forgive me and to uphold the proper standards. I do Mr. Thornton does not wish to get public council representation for as I am a legal representation by by special appearance through the executive office for Mr. Thornton and not the actual entity Lieut Thornton. Once again on the record, it has not been declined that the tab authoring is a nonprofit organization which yes your honor is a person in fact and I the man speaking with a with a voice and I'm going to cut this off. I don't want to mute you but we have to move forward. So um we have an attorney standing by that would be Mr. foreman who is a very very good public defender who is available to you. Um at this point, Mr. Anid, this is the time and date set for a pre-exam conference. Have you had an opportunity to speak with Mr. Thornton about any plea offer? No, honor. And I don't think I'll have any meaning full conversations with him based on what I see. Um, I believe that I'm not it's not clear whether what he's doing is intentional or whether this may be a competency issue. Um, but I'm prepared to proceed. I just don't know if we we should be we should um I have a concern for his uh competency to be honest with you. Um if they had the same issue, Mr. Thornton, one person at a time and right now Mr. Enid is speaking. I mean, I guess I would inquire whether he knows what a preliminary exam is and you know, if he understands you forward um if he's going to know what to do. I mean, I believe I have to look at the corals. I've never dealt with this issue, but I think having standby counsel would be something uh that would be needed um to advise him. I'll look into all that, but I just don't know if he's going to know what a preliminary exam is. Um I believe this may just be a competency issue. I don't know, your honor. Okay. So, actually, that's a good question. So, Mr. Thorson, I'm going to ask you, what is a preliminary exam? Well, before I address that, my address is sir. No, we're going to we're going to focus our answers here. What is a preliminary exam? I'm going to give you one chance to answer. What is a preliminary exam? A court proceeding. Okay. And what happens? That's good answer. What happens at that court proceeding? At a preliminary examination court proceeding, the parties have an opportunity to present evidence, cross-examine each other, and determine whether a case is whether evidence is admissible to go into to continual proceedings, whether the court has jurisdictions. A plethora of matters may be brought up in the prelim preliminary examination to see if the court has a valid standing to see if there's anything if to see what may be addressed that's necessary as far as the parties that are at hand not only to go about things in one specific fashion. Well, that's that's pretty um that that's a pretty good answer. Um however at this point given a review of history the court is going to sue Espante um suggest that a competency exam be ordered. Mr. Anid response I agree. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Thornton any response? U Mr. Thornton does not believe that a competency gram to a ponte is necessary and objects that as as a preliminary exam is something that we can proceed to and and we can address the matters and the situations that are necessary at that time and due to the due to the due pro due for the sake of due process and the judicial precedence of due process that a a criminal or excuse me, a competency test may delay that and it will it could hinder not only Mr. Thorn, but the things that Mr. Thornton does as far as a community and his career and his family and his life and rights and other people who are that may be affected by this matter as well as the public because for for the judicial precedence is that Mr. Lord is innocent and not guilty. Um, Mr. Anid, are you going to prepare a proposed order or uh, your I think it's been a while since I've done I believe is if it's if I'm not mistaken, it's the I can I can if you want. Yes, I'll prepare an order. All right. So, at this time, um, Mr. Anid comment preliminary exam. Nope. I just say we just um make the preliminary examination to be determined date. If anything, reset it for another PCC or review hearing um for when we do come back with a competency opinion. Okay. So, Mr. Thornton, you have a two rights at play here. One is the preliminary exam that we just discussed and the second is the right to have that within 21 days. So the reason that you have a right to have that within 21 days is to prevent cases from dragging on endlessly. There are certain timelines that have to be met. However, the court can wave that 21 days if it finds good cause and that would be for instance if one side had recently dis received discovery and was unable to proceed. Another good cause could be if someone was ill or hospitalized. Um, there could be any number of good reasons. So, I'm going to ask you actually, Mr. Thornton, have you received any discovery in this matter? Uh, no. Mr. Okay. So, all right. Two things then. First, I find good cause to wave the 21day rule and we will date. No, sir. Just a minute. Let me finish. You can't you don't know M I don't want to mute you but I have to get through this. So um you have to have you you have a constitutional right to have knowledge about your case and if you haven't received any discovery we can't go forward until you receive it. So two things. First, I'm going to wave the 21-day rule. And just a minute, Mr. Going to wave the 21-day rule. And we're going to set a date out in um about a month. That' be a placeholder date. As soon as we get that date, then we'll go to the discovery issue. So next up where we're going to adjourn this case to a for just we're going to adjourn this case to a I just lost that chat to a probable cause conference at 8:30 a.m. on April 25th and a preliminary exam date of 9:00 a.m. May 1st. Now, Mr. Anid, you wanted to be in a breakout room with Mr. Foreman and I'm guessing you want to discuss discovery. So, and you judge with me or you want to discuss me? All All three of us really quickly. That's okay. Okay. Okay, I will do that. Okay, just a moment. Mr. Mr. Thornton, we'll be back in just a moment. Okay, thank you. All right, we are back on the record in the matter of people versus Trashad Thornton. This is case 25203FY and for a moment uh at Mr. Anid's request, the court, Mr. Foreman and Mr. Anid discussed standby counsel. So stand by council is is something with certain mechanical concerns. So for standby counsel um the court can't just appoint standby counsel. This is what we discussed in the breakout room. the court or perhaps its funding unit, the city of East Lancing, would have to enter into a contract with with the public defenders office. And um if both sides agreed to that and a certain financial rate, then an attorney from the public defenders office would sit next to Mr. Thornton and be available to advise him during all proceedings there. Back in the day when I was on the courtapp appointed list, a judge could just appoint someone and do it. That doesn't exist anymore because of the MIDC. So, we discussed the mechanics of that. Um, the court is going to make a formal discovery request on behalf of Mr. Thornton. So, Mr. Thornton, you should receive at the jail or if you post bond um at the address we have on record all of the materials that a defense attorney would receive that the prosecutor has at this point. Mr. Anid would like to speak with Mr. Thornton and um perhaps see if a plea deal is possible. So, Mr. Thornton, you never have to accept a plea deal, but it's worth listening for two reasons. First, there may be something there that you can reach an agreement on. You have a constitutional right to have these charges heard at a trial. Sometimes sometimes you can make a bargain, something that it's worth giving up your right for a trial, for instance, a lesser charge, a lighter sentence, or both. The other side is you kind of want to know what the prosecutor's thinking about the case. So, as defense attorney, I always wanted to hear what the plea offer was. Even if my client was absolutely not going to take it, it gave me some insight into where the prosecutor was interested in going with the case. Again, you were never required to accept plea bargaining. At this point, because you are representing yourself, I'm going to allow you to converse with Mr. recognizing that you do not have discovery materials. So, I do not accept expect this court to accept a plea bargain today. All right, we're going to put you both in a breakout room and when you're done, the court will be ready. Thank you. We will go back on the record in the matter of people versus Latav, excuse me, Latavis Trash Thornon. This is case 25203FY. uh Mr. Anid prosecutor and Mr. Thornton representing himself have met in a breakout room. So first because prosecutor has burden of proof I'm going to ask Mr. Anid first then Mr. Thornton I'll ask you. So Mr. Anid anything from the breakout room that you'd like to report. Yes. I just want to make sure Mr. Thornton is there because I don't see him on here. Oh I I see him. Do you Okay. Can you hear me? Okay. Yep. So we discussed Yep. We discussed a little bit as much as we could. I believe we're based on my discussions with him, I don't believe this is a competency issue. I believe this is more of the um what Mr. Thorne um kind of described earlier. So the plan I think we both agreed on is we are going to we're asking for another probable cause conference. I'm going to somehow figure out how to provide him discovery, you know, the complaint, the information, you know, all the charging documents that we have. We're going to come back. In the meantime, I'm going to do my due diligence to speak with our office to see how we're going to go forward with this. Um because I know it's my understanding he wants to represent himself. That is his right. I believe based on the questions that you asked earlier. He answered them pretty fairly, your honor. I just want to make sure we got all ducks in order. I discussed a misdemeanor offer potentially with them, but also discussed that I encourage him to get a public defender. All these things I think we're going to discuss at the next probable cause conference. I think these are all appropriate matters so I can get my ducks in order. He can have discovery to know what he's looking at. Um, and I believe at the next hearing we will have a good understanding of what we're doing going forward. Mr. Thoren, is that an accurate report? It's pretty accurate, your honor. Just a few more points that uh we had discussed in that breakout room was also that it was um in the discovery we would we would like to get subject matter in in the uh appointment of the authorities um that has been filed onto the record for the for these proceedings and how we came about to be into the court's jurisdiction for this matter in in in such fashion. And I I think that's kind of that that's that's a word salad. It's not making any soup. Can you make sense at all? Can you rephrase that for me, Mr. Thornton? Okay. So, just pretty much all in the discovery, we didn't want any documents that have been filed into the case to be missing. And that that that that's not that for that's what I mean by not just not limited to the documents titles that he named it include an an inclusion of all documents filed under with all titles under them and okay I'll think kind of what he may be talking about is and I I could be wrong is the charging documents what gives us the authority to proceed forward and how we're proceeding forward and I explain you should wait until you discover it because I believe that's going to be complaint, the information, and the other charging documents to see where we're at. I I could be wrong, but once he receives those, we'll come back. We'll have all the ducks in order. I think that's that's a good resolution we both agreed on. Um, and in the meantime, I'll do my due diligence to speak with our officer how we're going to go forward. I told Mr. Thornne, you know, I'm I'm the prosecutor. I'm not on his side, but I did advise I'm here to help get the situation resolved as fast as possible. And um I I think we both agree to if you find good cause to endure this for one more public cause conference, I believe everything will be situated. The only thing I have to ask is how do I provide discovery to Mr. Thornton? I would guess that you could mail it to him or Yeah, I think uh I'll figure it out. I'll ask my office. Communication through the jail. Okay. At his address through the jail. And it may have to be paper communication. Okay. I'll do my due diligence today when I go back when I get to the office today, your honor. Okay. And um yeah, I don't have discovered demand in front of me, but that would include of course um any sculpatory materials granted under Brady. That would include make a request for any body worn camera, any evidence you plan to introduce, any car video, any report that you have in your office other than was protected under attorney client privilege with a prosecutor or any council. Mr. Thornton, anything further this morning? Not at this time, your honor. Just new dates. New dates. Our new probable cause. So, we have we have the dates and that is 8:30 a.m. April 25th for a probable cause conference and 9:00 a.m. May 1st for a preliminary exam. Okay. So, the next probable cause conference is about a month away. Does that sound right? Yes. Okay. All right. So, Mr. Thornton, if at any time you change your mind, you can communicate uh with the court and or Mr. Anid about questioning counsel. Uh at every hearing, I'm obligated to tell you your right about council and to determine uh determine the parameters of that. Uh all right. So, we will see you back at 8:30 a.m. April 25th. That is awesome. Thank you, your honor. Thank you. Take care. So much for the law. And of course, one thing we associate with the law is courts. And courts rhymes with sorts. And yes, it takes all sorts to make a world. And the world is full of strange things. And one example of a thing is a bacon slicer, which which leads me very neatly into this. And thanks for hanging out with us on Facture Frauds. Make sure you hit the thumbs up button, you're subscribed, and ring that bell. Also, leave a comment in the comments section. Tell me what you think. And a huge thank you to all of our Fax or Frauds channel members. If you'd like to become a member, click on the link in the description or click join right next to [Music] subscribe. Now, if you're still hanging out, thank you. I appreciate you all. Why not hit that thumbs up button, make sure you subscribe, ring the bell, and leave a comment in the comment section. Tell me what you think. Until next time, I'll see you soon.