Alec manassian has been found guilty of murder and attempted murder for driving a van down Young Street in a murderous Rampage manassian chose to run down innocent people that day she said he planned the attack showed no remorse nor empathy for his actions and knew that his plan constituted first-degree murder which is why his plan was to die by cop that day Neo contains the interview of a man who deliberately killed 10 people with a van on April 23 2018 over 20 pedestrians were struck down by a rebel van driven by Alec manassian 11 people were killed and 15 more were severely injured no one who knew menacion suspected that he was capable of such a violent act he was a quiet unassuming University student about to embark on a career in computer programming and he had never shown any outward sign of a hostility that was boiling just beneath the surface menacion was unpopular with women a fact that began to eat away at him over time this bitterness grew once he began to interact with men online who had similar experiences and soon menacion began to plan an attack that he felt would make people pay and forced them to give him the attention he felt he deserved foreign so much how you feeling good you're feeling okay my name's Rob Thomas hey Steve hi how are you how are you you doing okay yeah yeah you probably have better days on this I guess eh yeah well I am a little shaken to be honest it's not my usual day obviously yeah yeah I know I appreciate that yeah yeah but now seeing claims that he is shaken almost as if he is the victim rather than the person who is responsible for multiple deaths um Alec my name is Rob Thomas so I want you to call me Rob from here on in okay okay is that okay okay okay Alex I want you to understand something I'm a senior detective with the trial place do you understand what that means uh yes you know I'm a police officer yes okay I don't wear a uniform I wear a suit and tie because the type of work that I do but although I'm in a suit and tie I'm an actual police officer okay and I'm the one of the senior investigators on this case okay I got called in for this this specific case because of what's happened and the involvement and everything else that's been going on okay before we get started I want you to know that we're being videotaped and audio taped okay okay do you know what I mean by that yes everything I see and do is being captured exactly yeah on audio and video okay okay now uh here's what I want to do uh Alex um I want to talk today okay um we're going to spend a a good deal of time together okay um it's important that I talk to you all right um I'm going to ask you questions okay can I ask you questions about uh your background your education your relationships with your family and friends um work travel I think I ask you questions about what happened today okay you don't have to answer those questions if you don't want okay you understand that yes but if you do decide to answer my questions okay I just ask that you do two things for me okay first thing is I ask that you treat with respect okay I promise to treat you with respect throughout the entire night okay all I ask is you do the same for me is that okay yes okay uh and uh the other thing I ask Alec and I've been doing this a long time okay and I typically never have any problems with people or anything like that I don't expect to have a problem with you today but if you do decide to answer my questions would you do me the favor and just speak from the heart okay and just be truthful that's all I ask does that sound fair yes is that okay okay um no my understanding is earlier today um there was an incident and you ultimately got arrested by a police officer do you remember that I do remember getting arrested okay do you remember it was a uniform police officer who arrested you so in other words he was a police officer in a uniform yes I remember he had a uniform yeah okay and I know there was a bit of an altercation we'll get into that but basically I just want to kind of uh you know cover off a few points before we get started my understanding is that that incident the time that you got arrested you were on or near the area of Young Street earlier today is that right and a police officer told you that you were going to be placed under arrest and he placed you under arrest you remember that I remember that okay do you remember what he arrested you for I believe I may have been arrested for something similar to murder okay I I believe it was originally you arrested for attempted murder and subsequent to that the officer placed Ian handcuffs is that right yes yeah and then he uh um he placed you in the back of his car correct correct uh and then uh you were transported and you were you were delivered here in a police car to 32 division crap do you remember that and following that you were taken into the building and you spoke to uh I believe it was a gentleman he's known as a staff sergeant he would have had three stripes on his on his shoulder with a crown he would have asked you questions about your your medical uh history whether or not your suicidal uh whether or not you understood why you were being placed under arrest I remember that okay when you were placed under arrest did the officer read anything to you I remember being read a uh the signs on the left-hand wall stating on my rights okay okay so you would have been read either at the time you were arrested or certainly when you got into the police station you were providing your rights to council is that right so Thomas is trying to make sure that manasian remembers being read is right and understands what that means having that recorded will save trouble later if menacion tries to claim he wasn't in a condition to remember anything I recently released another exclusive patreon video exposing a chilling incident where a man Unleashed his rage by committing a shocking act of violence against an innocent 15 year old his heart-wrenching video shows interrogation of Cody The Man Behind this horrible crime watch the full video and more at patreon.com stranger stories Plus it would have been something like this you're going to be arrested for attempted murder it's my duty to inform you that you have the right to retain Council without delay you have to write the telephone Lord your wish you also have the right yeah no yeah now I'm starting to come back yeah okay let me just finish here because it's important to understand this uh you have the right to telephone any lawyer you wish you also have the right to free advice from a legal aid lawyer if you're charged with a defense you may apply the Ontario legally applied for assistance 1-800-265-0451 is a toll-free number that'll put in contact with a legal aid Duty Council lawyer for free legal advice right now do you remember that yeah I know I remember that do you remember the officer reading you then to be honest um I encountered uh very I encountered various police officers I don't remember which one read me that okay all right but nevertheless you were read you were read we call that caution you read that caution Yes actually now that you mention the word caution I remember hearing the words of primary caution and secondary caution okay great okay great okay that's that's interesting because not a lot of people can remember those words okay so that's what I read you was what we refer to as a primary caution so you don't let me just get this straight you're not sure if you remember the police officer reading of those rights or if you were read those that primary caution in the building is that right uh actually I'm I'm pretty sure I was read the the caution inside that room within the building with the uh camera in the desk right right so we call out the booking Hall okay uh do you know what do you know what it is that that I just read you what what was read to you uh when you were inside the booking Hall do you know what what that means I believe to my investors understanding it means as you said before um the rights that I have um my right to council right do you know what council do you know what council means uh and a lawyer or attorney perfect exactly yeah so what that means is actually a couple things it means that you can call a lawyer what it means at the time you were placed under arrest you're being placed under arrest for attempted murder uh what that primary caution means that you uh you can speak to a lawyer okay uh or we call it counsel uh if you don't have a lawyer or Council of choice it means that you can call a free lawyer and we call that Duty Council or legal aid okay and the 1-800-265-0451 is a toll-free number that you can call to speak to duty Council or legal aid for free legal advice do you understand do you understand what that means yes so basically means you can call a lawyer if you don't have a lawyer you can speak to a free lawyer right what it also means is that if you're charged with an offense so if you're charged by the police for a crime and you can't afford a lawyer okay you can uh you can apply to the the government to pay for your lawyer does that make sense yes okay and we call that legal aid okay now my understanding is um the officers then provided you a secondary caution yes okay it would have been something like this uh you're going to be charged with attempted murder you're not obliged to say anything well she was to do so but whatever you do say may be given an Evidence you understand what that means uh yes it means that I'm not required to speak but anything I see Canon will be used against me yeah once the sort of the American version of the Miranda rights in Canada I've watched too much do you watching uh what were you watch a lot of TV like TV programs like crime drama programs on TV the Casual question is designed to see what sort of media monosian consumes and if he shows any obsession with violent crimes uh it's one of the I used to watch a lot of CSI I love that show but um yeah it's one of the states they call that the Miranda anything you say Canada will be used against unicorn law in Canada we're a little bit different than the United States I like to think we're a lot different actually in the United States what we have in Canada is is a different type of caution anything that you say can be entered into evidence so anything that you say to me today because we're being videotaped in audio tape a judge can watch that okay and he can listen to what it is you're saying okay all right um now uh did the officers read you any other cautions I don't remember being read any other cautions to be honest okay I want to read one more to you and uh it goes like this if you've spoken to any police officer or to anyone in Authority or if any such person has spoken to you in connection with this case I want to clearly understood that I do not want to influence you in making a statement Yes actually I do remember being a red dad you do right okay when do you remember being with that while I was in my cell by a um by a non-uniformed officer he was uh Dressed formally it was similar to you oh I see in the suit and tie yes I believe he may have been a detective okay well that makes sense um do you understand what that means uh yes means that um any any state whenever I'm making a statement it shouldn't be affected by something that one cop said to me it should just be simply whatever I feel is the best as my defense you're absolutely right you know what you hit it right on the head you know what um uh and I thank you for that that's that's very important yeah basically what it means is that um if you've spoken to any police officer yeah I you may not have spoken to a lot of police officers but I know a lot of police officers have spoken to you today everything from the uniformed officer who arrested you right through the booking officers who collected your information when you came into the station right up to the officers who came down into the cells and and advised you of further charges that were gonna be late you've spoken to a lot of police officers today am I am I right yes how many in total do you think you're spoken to him I would say at least five at least five okay uh what I what what that means that caution that I I gave you what that means is that if anybody if any of those officers or anybody else for that matter have said to you that you have to talk to me okay that's incorrect do you understand that yes okay um uh you don't have to talk to me okay so if anybody uh has told you that you have to speak to me I don't want you to listen to what they they said all right uh I'm assuming nobody's threatened you or maybe any kind of Promise uh no nobody's threatened you no nobody's promised made you made promises no for you okay um we call those inducements so nobody's nobody's uh offered you any type of inducement I hope or anything like that oh no okay so basically what it means is that you don't have to listen to uh what the police have said to you previously prior to you meeting me here today um and that if you do decide to talk to me let it just be like I said from the heart and it and it'd be truthful we call that being voluntary does that make sense yes that makes a lot of sense okay um now in addition to that I just want to I just want to clarify one more thing did you did you speak to the police and and tell them what happened today sorry I'm just need to a minute to think about that are you asking if I in any way confessed well I'm asking if you uh yes if you can faster if you made a statement at all to any other police officer I never made any significant statement about any events that occurred before I was arrested right right okay so if you did have any conversation with any police officer prior to being brought into this room all right and that includes making a statement or confession okay I want you to ignore what you said okay and uh I don't want you to uh refer back to that conversation okay what I mean by referring back I don't want you to tell me uh about any conversations you've had with any other police officers okay what I'd like to do is start fresh and call this a clean slate okay so from here on in okay I want this to be a fresh start okay does that make sense yes pretty pretty straightforwarding okay now when the officer arrested you did uh he put handcuffs on him yes right um and my understanding is the handcuffs were behind your back yes okay and uh um he did he he patted you down did he what I mean by that did he search you I remember I remember being searched I I actually I remember later on as other officers uh came in I was uh stood up brought uh to the cruiser and then as I was leaning on the car I remember at that point I was being searched all right and so as far as the search is concerned what uh What uh to what extent were you searched in other words what did they serve what are the officers it was uh pat down of the entire body to make sure there was no weapons or anything like that on me okay given the nature of his crime and the fact that manasian tried to make the police believe he had a weapon so they would shoot him it was reasonable for them to perform a search and how do you know that they they were searching for weapons and things like that because they uh I remember they were searching my pockets they were feeling my chest my back my legs uh so that would be an indication that they feel a felt I had weapons on me okay did the officer say anything while they were doing this I don't remember exactly what they said okay other than just uh stand still okay did anybody tell you that they were searching for weapons I do remember although I don't remember the exact words I do remember there was a mention of being searched for weapons I mean they may not have been speaking directly to me but they may have been speaking to each other okay did they take your clothes off no did any part of your clothing come off no okay and so then from there you were placed in the car correct okay all right and uh um how many police officers were in the car while you were being driven to the station two two okay and uh I'm presuming they were both in the front yes okay and did you have any conversation with the police officers no okay and then you arrived here at the station yes okay and how long of a how long of a drive was that about 10 minutes or 10 minutes okay and um uh did it appear to be a direct route yes in other words they didn't stop for coffee or anything like that or no okay all right and um and then uh you came into a garage yes okay we call that the selling Port that's what that we've heard of that is and uh you were I understand you were taken out of the back seat of the car yes and then you were led to a desk yes and there was an officer an office a senior officer a higher ranking officer was behind that desk you probably didn't know that but we called that officer the officer in charge of the station do you understand that yes and uh he would have asked you some questions yes okay and uh my understanding is those questions uh dealt specifically with any medical issues uh yes right and whether or not you understood why you were being placed under arrest yes and um and whether or not you understood your rights to counsel or the right your right to to call a lawyer yes yes okay and then um from there my understanding is you were taken to the cell area yes okay and you were placed in a cell and uh my understanding is that sell is a bathroom if there's a toilet and a sink yes and uh and then following that now there were a couple of other events that are important uh one was um my understanding is that you were given an opportunity to speak to a lawyer yes okay and you uh you indicated the officers that you didn't have a lawyer correct and that you didn't know who to call correct and so the officers offered you an opportunity to speak to duty Council which is that free legal service that I talked about correct okay and my understanding is you spoke to to duty Council correct okay um and you did that in private is that right correct in other words there wasn't anybody listening to your conversation correct okay now I don't want you to tell me what the lawyer said but did you understand what the lawyer was telling you yes okay are you satisfied with the information that he told you yes okay um now uh following that my understanding is and I might might have gotten a sequence of events mixed up so correct me if I'm wrong there's been a lot going on today and I've been very busy but my understanding is at some point if I'm not mistaken a police officer in a suit came down and he told you that the he updated you with respect to the charges that were going to be laid yes okay and did you remember what he said to you yes so an initial originally the charges were nine counts of first degree murder right then later on it got updated to 10 counts of first degree murder plus uh 15 counts of attempted murder exactly yes that's my understanding so my understanding is um as the night progressed and as we were learning more information uh it came to our attention that uh seven people have have died sorry nine people have died I apologize uh um as a result of incident occurred on Young Street and uh so subsequent to that my understanding is the officers came down and they spoke to you to advise you that you the charges would be upgraded to nine counts of first-degree murder do you understand what first degree murder is it's a preemie pre-mediated murder and completely intentional and considered to be what's known as In Cold Blood well yeah that's a fairly uh fairly uh precise way of describing it what we we call it premeditated it means premeditated you understand what premeditated means yes it means it would mean that someone planned for that murder in advance manasian so far has been able to understand all of the information being given to him perfectly and can easily Define the terms without needing them to explain right planning and deliberation in other words you you um if somebody commit a first degree murder they would have uh took the time out to think about what they were going to do sit down and uh deliberate over the the plan so in other words they're going to sit down and go over the details of the plan figure out what it is they were going to do and how they're going to execute the plan and so on and so forth to commit a murder plan and deliver it that's what it means so there's a lot of thought and energy that goes into planning to kill somebody that's that's what first degree murder is okay um and so initially it was nine counts the first degree murder and do you remember the officer that that told you told you that I believe if I believe if I remember correctly it was the officer wearing the suit the officer wearing a suit who uh walked you in here today or walked you into this room uh yes okay all right uh now did he tell you that you could speak to a lawyer again yes okay so he gave you your rights to council again yes okay uh and in answer to that caution that first caution uh do you do you understand did you understand what you were being arrested for yes okay did you understand that the charges were now being upgraded to nine counts of first degree murder yes and did you understand that you could call a lawyer again yes okay and what did you say to the officer in response to calling a lawyer again I think I simply just acknowledged I said okay okay my understanding is he asked you do you want to speak to a lawyer again do you remember what you said to him I believe I said no thanks okay that's the reason I did so the reason I gave that response was because since I had already spoken to a lawyer very recently I felt that I wouldn't be given new information at that point right that makes sense yeah that makes sense okay that was my understanding and then uh subsequent to that um now again I might have the the the uh the facts mixed up um just in terms of the chronology but uh my understanding is uh did somebody come down and take photos of you yes okay was that okay well uh let's actually happen twice okay uh and initially the first time it happened was very at the very beginning of when I got arrested right um I sat down in the chair I had front left right right and later on in the evening I again had um I was signing up in front of that chair and had left a right front and back okay well let's talk about that so the first time you had your photo taken front left and right where was that done inside the uh room with the camera and the fingerprint machine about a few about 10 steps away from the uh cell block I was in okay so they took you out of the cells yes into what we call the print room yes yeah so uh the booker would have called him the book or the individual that takes your photographs and takes your fingerprints uh we call him the booker did they take your fingerprints at all yes they did it okay it was at the same time that I initially had my uh picture taken okay all right okay and uh and then from there you will return to the cell yes okay and then you were yeah you were uh you were your photographs were taken once again or you were photographed once again after that so you were photographed a second time yes okay where did that take place in the same uh room in the same room okay okay was it by the same officer no it was by another officer yes okay and uh uh this time you were standing you said yes okay uh the first time you were sitting yes when you were photographed the second time you were photographed you were standing yes okay and uh the officer who took the second set of photos what was he wearing he was uh uniformed in a uniform okay um and uh was he the individual who took care of himself yes okay and then my understandings you returned to the cell yes okay uh and then at some point you also turned over your clothing yes okay uh when did that happen that happened at the very beginning when I got when I was brought to the police station okay all right that happened uh at the very beginning so uh at what point was it that was initially before I was uh put into my saw I was in some other uh holding room right that just had some chair there at that point I had all my clothes uh taken off um just used as evidence okay and and then then I was given my underwear back I put a con and then I was given an orange jumpsuit and then two minutes later I I was taken out of the orange jumpsuit and then I was given this a white bodysuit okay and that was before you went into the cell correct okay and uh so let's talk about that for a minute so when they took your clothes off uh you were put in a room you said cracked okay and um uh the officers explained to you why they were taking your clothes uh as evidence as evidence okay menacion's clothing has been taken as evidence not only is this necessary in cases where blood bodily fluids or other stains need to be recorded but this can also assist with identifying the suspect and tracing their movements on various security cameras and uh also just because of concerns that I might have something within the close okay so you were we call that a level three search you yeah actually now that you mention it I remember that exact term being used yeah yeah so we we do that in cases where we're dealing with individuals that we don't know because we don't know either um who are involved in relatively serious events which which unfortunately you are um and so we do it for uh our safety as well as your safety as well as to ensure that we're collecting you know all the evidence we possibly can right because the idea at the end of the day is we just want to come to the truth as to what's that's the bottom line right so we have to do these things and sometimes they're intrusive but we try and do it in a manner that is as dignified as possible so uh when you when you had your clothes taken off uh were you completely naked I was only completely naked for about 10 seconds okay all right and uh did you have some privacy in this room that you're this one no the room you had they took your clothes off actually to be honest I don't remember I think the mirror in some officers there okay we're there because my my uh face was towards the wall the entire time okay all right how many officers were I think about four I don't remember the exact number to be honestly were there any female officers I don't believe so okay all right was anything getting videotaped I don't remember seeing a camera in that room okay um but nevertheless you were only uh completely naked for about 10 seconds correct okay and then they gave you an orange jumpsuit yes okay and then you were then you were brought to the cells you spoke to a lawyer you're photographed well actually um I was switched into this uh White bodysuit before being taken into my uh assault because that I was only in that orange jumpsuit for about two minutes oh okay okay and uh the reason behind putting you into a white jumpsuit did they tell you I believe if they did tell me I don't remember the reason okay okay um the reason would have been to keep your your feet protected right because I don't think you had uh you had the the boots on the orange jumpsuit oh yeah I remember they said something about that there wasn't any Footwear right right okay uh okay so from there you went into the white jumpsuit then you replace the cells you spoke to your lawyer yes and then you were photographed twice correct okay uh in addition the officer came down to advise you that uh you'd be charged with nine counts of first degree murder right yes okay and my understanding is uh I believe it was the same officer at some point in time he then came down to advise you that you were going to now be charged with 10 counts of first degree murder and 15 counts of attempted murder correct okay and during the sequence of events at what point did that officer come down and tell you about upgraded charge was a after I spoke to the uh my lawyer okay how many times did you speak to a lawyer once okay so it would have come after the the first time you spoke to the lawyer it would have come after the the the the the officers telling you you were being upgraded to the Council of the upgrades to nine counts of murder so it would have been it would have been uh it would have been sometime after you spoke to your lawyer that they told you that you were now being charged with 10 counts of murder first degree murder and 15 counts of contemporary correct correct okay did the officers explain to you again uh the the your rights as far as calling a lawyer yes okay and what did you say in the response to them I simply said okay okay anything else uh no my understanding is the officers asked you uh do you wish to call the lawyer uh yes they did uh so the second time I said no thanks and the reason I as I said before the reason I gave that answers just because I had very recently spoken to a lawyer so I thought that I wouldn't be given any additional information at that point okay all right okay all right well uh here here's here's what I'm telling you here today and support you understand what I'm saying okay um you're going to be charged with 10 counts of first degree murder okay as well as 15 counts of attempted murder I've read you your rights to council your caution secondary caution so forth uh do you wish to speak to a lawyer the choice is yours yes I will speak to a lawyer you want to speak to a lawyer yes please okay uh did you have a lawyer or did you want to speak to duty Council I like to speak to duty Council please okay no problem so can you just hold on just can you sit tight for one second I'm just gonna just exit the room here for one minute okay um sit tight I'll be right back and then I'll Take You Down manasian has decided he wants to speak to a lawyer again just to make sure he hasn't missed any information Thomas is careful to ensure that monosian gets the representation quickly monocyan has been removed to speak to his lawyer Okay so before we go any further just tell me what happened from the time we left this room until the time we came back what took place my lawyer told me not to answer uh I understand that okay and and I'm glad you told me that you know why he said that tells me you understand what your rights are okay um but I mean you need to understand something okay we the police have have a job to do okay and that job includes collecting evidence speaking to people um trying to understand and not cover what's happened what took place and asking questions and uh we're obligated to to sit down and speak to people like yourself who are in this position and ask you questions all right your lawyer's right you don't have to answer any questions okay but you need to understand something else okay I still have to ask you questions okay and I'm going to ask you questions and I'm going to talk okay and it's not I'm not I'm not doing that to to make you feel intimidated or to make you scared or to say things that you don't want to hear okay but the bottom line is we have a very difficult job to do okay and and this is a very very important matter that we're dealing with here today so I'm going to ask you questions if you don't want to answer them you can tell me you don't want to answer or you don't have to say anything at all I totally understand that but as long as we can still maintain that respect that we talked about at the beginning is that cool yes is that cool you're not going to offend me okay um uh you're not going to make me upset or or insult me if you say Rob I don't want to answer that question okay if you're kicking over the table and screaming well that's gonna that's gonna cause a problem okay but I'm not going to be offended okay I understand okay but you also need to understand that I have I have a job to do I have to ask questions okay okay if you don't want to tell me what we did from the time we left the time we came back um is it fair to say that while we were out you spoke to a lawyer yes okay and I'm going to suggest that the only person you had any contact with was was with me is that right yeah what do you mean well you didn't speak to any other police officers cracked right so I'm the only police officer that was in your custody from the time we left this room until the time we came back I took you down the hall to a room placed you into a a small room with a seat uh we I made a phone call or I had an officer make a phone call to duty Council we originally placed one call we had to wait we couldn't hear we didn't hear back so we placed a second call we still didn't hear back I came in and I actually opened the door and I informed you that we were still waiting to call do you remember that yes okay um I think I asked you if you wanted to pour the washroom as well do you remember that I remember yeah and you said what did you say I don't recall you said you didn't need to borrow the washroom oh now I remember that okay all right and then finally we got Duty Council on the line uh we put the council the the lawyer uh or we hand the phone over to you my understanding is his name was Mr Rodriguez did he tell you what his name was although manasian has been advised not to answer questions he has a need for attention and will not be able to resist telling his story I don't recall his name okay he identified himself as Mr Rodriguez to me I don't want you to tell me the conversation you had uh it's what we call private but I I want to ask you did you understand the conversation that you had with Mr Rodriguez yes do you understand what he said to you yes are you satisfied with the information that he's provided you yes okay great um and then from there you had a lengthy conversation I only know that because from the time I handed you the phone until the time you knocked on the door it was quite some time I'm guessing it was over 10 minutes yes at least over 10 minutes yeah and then I came to the door and uh uh I asked if things were okay you knocked on the door so I opened it you told me that you finished your conversation with a lawyer I asked you if how you feeling uh if things were okay you said yes I asked if you wanted to borrow the washroom again remember that yes and you said nope and then we walked back right in here is that right yes and did anybody else talk to you no did you talk to anybody else no is there anything I'm missing no that's pretty pretty straightforward eh yeah yes okay uh and then uh so my understanding is that's that's essentially what took place from the time you were arrested right up until the time you were brought into this room we've covered off basically everything Emily yes okay did I miss anything yeah anything of importance um if I'm not mistaken the officers uh fed you is that right yes downstairs in the cells just what did they feed you sandwich and juice a sandwich in a juice okay so what was that I didn't have access to the time at the time I was fed okay uh are you hungry no okay did you have anything else to eat today I ate before I was arrested okay and what what time was that I don't recall okay do you remember what you ate I don't recall okay all right uh if you're hungry at all at any point in time you just let me know okay if you need to boil the washroom just let me know okay I'm going to leave that up to you to tell me okay because I'm not going to know if you're hungry or not I'm not going to know if you need to know the washroom so I'm going to rely on you to tell me that is that cool yes all right um how much sleep did you have last night about eight hours and how did you sleep I slept well you slept well and when where did you sleep was it your home I uh I do not wish to answer that okay all right uh nevertheless you slept well okay um I want to ask you something and this is important uh are you on any kind of medication right now no okay so do you take any what I mean by medication do you take anything anything prescribed for any physical injuries or ailments of any type judging by his stilted response manasian is following some sort of recommendation to avoid answering any questions relating to his mental health what about medication for psychological issues I don't wish to answer that okay um has a doctor uh um have you seen a doctor recently with respect to any medical issues that I should be concerned about I don't wish to answer that okay what about psychological issues okay Alex can I ask you this um because it's important and I'm saying this because um I think I know the answer but uh Am I Wrong to understand that in high school you were identified as someone with special needs I don't wish to answer that okay but you did go to Thornley secondary didn't you correct yeah okay and you graduated from Florida is that right yes okay and then following out my understanding is you went to Seneca crept and you were you're just finishing up if I'm not mistaken just finishing up your your course yes and that's uh the center for development of open technology no it's uh Seneca at York yeah I realize your program the program you're taking isn't it called Center for no that was actually something else oh okay all right what are you taking what are you taking in Seneca Bachelor of software and development program oh oh so you're taking a degree yes so Seneca offers a degree in in software programming yes yes and that's something that you uh were aspiring to do I understand you wanted to become a software developer or designer it's a software developer yes yeah yeah yeah and a team leader is that not right yes that's that's what you were aspiring to to do yes okay and um as far as work my understanding is you're not working right now I don't wish to answer that okay all right um is it fair to say that you you had some employment lined up with a company called ceridin certain computers I don't wish to answer that oh okay all right um I I I I I I do know that you live at home though and I do know that you have uh mom and dad right um I believe you're dead and correct me if I'm wrong because I I probably I'm not pronouncing it right but his name is uh thoughty okay um and your mom's Sona and you've got an older brother named Pig to I think he's what probably 28. Pig I don't wish to answer that how is how are things at home good with you and your family are you close to your mom and dad yes yeah and what about your relationship with your brother it's good um I understand you were born in Canada yes yeah and your uh your parents immigrated to Canada um some time ago and the reason from Iraq is that right I do not wish to uh confirm or deny that okay all right okay I just say that because um you're smoking your dad um he's worried about it I'll tell you that okay um and I ask you these questions and I'm not trying to intimidate I'm not trying to scare them okay um the reason why I ask these questions is because it's important that I get to know you better all right um we just met for the very first time and you don't know me am I right correct right and uh I I've never met you before but I know I do know a great a great deal about you but um it's important I get to know you better and the reason why I say that is because this is an important issue that brings you here today okay it's very serious and um I think I would be neglectful if I didn't at least try and understand who you are that's all I'm trying to do you understand yes does that make sense yes okay do you feel intimidated right now are you scared or anything like that no okay uh will you let me know if if you if that ever happens I will let you know okay all right there's anything I say that is is offensive or that you find offensive or you know if there's anything I say that you don't like me let me know yes okay the reason why I say that because I don't want to fit that's not why I'm here okay I do know this my understanding is um you were in a a special needs class in high school okay it was a small uh classroom specifically designed for people with um special events my understanding is that there were a number of students in that class who excelled very well in certain areas and didn't do very well or were it is clear that Thomas had had time to do his research which menacion may find disconcerting it also might get him to open up if he assumes that Thomas already knows the answers they performed poorly in other areas so there were you know there was a mixture of individuals in the class and um and the idea behind being placed in this especially in this class was to focus on on the areas where they they didn't perform as well and uh in my in my conversation with you in my experience with uh people with special needs because I've been doing this a long time and I have actually family members who uh you know have special needs because of a variety of different reasons I can recognize people who who have special needs and so I reason why I'm saying that is because I want to make sure you understand what I'm saying okay I don't want to be saying something that is going to confuse you or make you feel uncomfortable or make you feel scared does that make sense yes okay um now my understanding is your dad's not working Rogers but he's he's he's out of work right now but he's he's looking for he's looking for work is that right I do not wish to confirm or deny that okay okay your mom works for uh compuchent that's a computer computer company I do not wish to answer that okay all right are you are you in any kind of relationship right now with um with uh with an intimate partner and you have a girlfriend or a I do not wish to answer that you know okay all right what about friends do you have a group of friends that you typically hang around with if I was to say Jeffrey one would you know who I'm talking about I don't recall that name it's everyone w-am I don't recall you know okay what about uh Brendan Lee uh Levine I don't recall okay um do you know a fellow by the name of um Michael White I don't know which to answer that okay Michael uh Transit sorry you have tanzer Michael tanzer do you know Michael tanzer I don't wish to answer that okay do you have a Facebook account yes feed your way yeah um is it am I correct to suggest that the the name of your account your account profile is your name what I will say that it is uh correct to assume that most people have a Facebook account with the same name as their real name right right right the police have already discovered manasian's Facebook account locking it down so they can gather information and um do you have any other online social media accounts that is my only online social media account okay so you know what I mean by social media I'm talking about Facebook Twitter Etc yeah Instagram uh Snapchat um well there's some of the other ones I'm trying to think of I'm I'm old from 50 51 years old so I can't even you young guys have uh all the all the uh the the the the the uh the different technological ways of communicating what are the other ones Facebook Instagram I'm just thinking about my kids use Twitter Twitter yeah okay I knew that one uh peace time face time do you need an account for that I've actually never used that before FaceTime it's like FaceTime is like Skype though isn't it I think it's easier more convenient way of using Skype right it's because you communicate over Facebook but it's a it's a video performer communication correct I actually didn't know that because I've just heard of the name oh okay because I've actually used it but this is going to sound strange I've used it but I don't know how I've used it people have actually called me on FaceTime and I've been on my uh my I have a like that and then all of a sudden I'm talking to somebody and I can see them and they can see me so I uh one day you're going to get old and you're going to realize what I'm going through right now because it's hard it's hard as a as a 51 year old guy to try and keep up with the technology and by the time you got to my age technology is going to be out of control but you're you're a bit of a computer guy using a computer saying you're in a software programming all that kind of stuff have you got a particular um area of expertise like deal do you write code or what do you do I don't wish to answer that you don't wish to tell me what you what you like to do what you don't like to do as far as uh no I don't know okay well we're going back to the social media accounts do you I mean my understanding is you have a um a LinkedIn account yes yeah okay but you're not you're not you're not active on LinkedIn do you know what I mean I I don't a sign in uh daily right right right and the information you have on linkedin's fairly Limited yes yeah yeah yeah and uh my understanding is your Facebook account is your your activity on Facebook's kind of sporadic sometimes you're on and then you go off and then you go back on and close down your account open up back up why why is that I don't wish to answer that am I right to assume that you've closed your Facebook get down account down in the past I may have Daniel whites yeah oh okay all right all right when did you close it down did you see when or why no when when I don't remember it was quite a while ago oh okay and how long was it closed down for I would say at least a year oh okay okay and then uh am I right to assume that you just recently opened it back up again yes yeah okay when when did you open back up I think about a month or two ago okay and um how many friends do you have on Facebook I don't remember the exact count are you active on Facebook my uh my rate of a sign-in is inconsistent sometimes I might sign in for a couple of days but then might not sign in again for another week or so okay is there a reason for that I just don't have a specific uh pattern when uh deciding to use Facebook you know I'm just thinking in terms of a routine like when I when I I actually use Facebook a lot of surprise and as old as I am um but one of the reasons why I use Facebook is because it keeps me I don't post a lot of stuff on Facebook because I'm not that time I'm kind of shy that way I don't like to to tell people what I'm doing but I like looking at what other people are doing and uh I have I don't have a lot of friends but I have a few and I kind of keep up to date with what they're doing and I watch and I as a routine I will I will I almost say daily maybe daily I go on to my Facebook and I check and but I don't post a great deal of information because I for some reason I don't know in my mind I just don't like to to reveal what I'm doing are you when you say you're on Facebook or what do you mean by that I simply mean that I'm occasionally uh signing into uh use it minimally okay so when you say using is that you know you're posting stuff on on your web it could be posting or it could be a private messaging uh and another individual on Facebook oh I see okay and what kind of stuff do you typically post on your Facebook there's no specific pattern as to the type of content I post no it's just random stuff depending on whatever you're thinking of the day or you could think of it like that and messaging are you what kind of conversations are you typically having on on messenger I don't wish Todd's uh manassian has never had a romantic relationship something he claims inspired him to commit this act of violence um am I to understand that you've you've had some military experience experience yes yeah okay was it in Canada yes yeah and my dad was the military that was actually my Navy he um he joined when he was 17 years old in fact he was he wasn't 18 so yeah I actually had his parents sign off to uh we'll uh to give him permission to join the Navy but uh so in the military we have the Air Force the the Navy and the yes oh really what made you decide to do that uh I wanted to uh try something new I wanted to see what it was like to join infantry really have you thought about pursuing the military as a career I had thought of it at the time that I had uh joined right right right okay and were you thinking about doing like a listing or were you thinking about being an officer and going through the officer Cadet program or what I had enlisted you know listed oh I see it so it was in the Army in what particular like were you what particular I know there's a number of different the professions or a number of different trades yes infantry oh infantry so you'd be if if called the task you'd be the fellow on the front line yes charge into the enemy and yes just uh getting your hands dirty at that point okay is that uh is it yeah yeah as per the trade description oh okay right now what so specifically what So within the Infantry did you have a particular skill that you wanted to develop or was it just I was interested in uh learning how to uh use uh weapons specifically uh large guns the admission of being interested in weapons is one that Thomas will work into further questioning to see if this is something that has been building within monosian for a number of years so large guns is in in what like uh like such as assault rifles oh okay so you're not talking about howitzers and and uh cannons right you're talking about yeah because those you can actually hold in your head right right so what type of weapons would the uh the military Canadian military be be training their their members in because you know what I play a lot of Call of Duty right have you ever play Call of Duty unfortunately that game isn't realistic um however I never unfortunately I never made it far enough in my basic training to uh use guns uh so I don't know what type of guns the uh military use what makes you think I thought Call of Duty was real I know but the scenarios aren't realistic but like the weapons they use are realistic aren't they and uh and the camel and the uniforms itself unfortunately uh um the the logistics of how the weapons are fired right uh are not are realistic in real life for example uh there's a lot of recoil when firing a an assault rifle right right yeah yeah I know I imagine and you're not getting much recoil on your you know your your computer whatever definitely not a little handheld console you're using of course it vibrates a little bit you do you play a call to I played it in the past yeah I enjoy that I like that and uh there's another one I really enjoy was um um honor badge of honor I've actually never played that to be honest that was actually better that's better than the Call of Duty better badge buyer it's made it's uh I think Call of Duty is is Microsoft if I'm not mistaken I can't I don't know and but this was another company but Call of Duty is made by Activision Activision okay right uh and now yeah so badge of honor is something else it's another company I don't know what it is but uh do you do you find yourself playing do you play a lot of a lot of games in sky like you 25 years old that's a year yeah I actually I actually like playing video games especially the violent ones the violent ones yeah I just like to uh let out all my urges that's why they're there right what about uh what other ones do you play manasian has admitted to having violent urges something his lawyer surely must have advised him to avoid this can be used to imply that manassian had been planning something like this for a while I played Halo a lot in the past okay all right that's more of a Sci-Fi kind of futuristic stuff it's not I would say Halo is terribly violent and you're you're killing martians and things like that at least you're not killing other humans yeah yeah yeah if you play um uh Grand Theft Auto I played it a couple of times uh on someone else's Xbox I don't actually own I've never actually owned any copies in Grand Theft Auto so as far as being a gamer how would you classify yourself are you uh like I would classify myself as a hardcore gamer hardcore gamer so in terms of how we're spent during the day playing video games how often would you how many hours did you spend I would say an average of uh five hours per day no okay all right okay that seems real that's gonna be your age I'd probably even given even given my course loads okay and so that's with school yes so okay so and you were full-time yes yeah and then you're in a computer degree program right which is I imagine intense yes like hard work yes have you always been I'm I'm saying this because I've got a uh I've got a nephew of mine who's actually uh in BC right now at the University of Victoria and he's in a uh computer engineering program Thomas attempts to establish a connection with manasian over gaming making his story more plausible by using a possibly fictitious nephew to account for his own lack of knowledge on the subject so I don't know if Computer Engineering is the same or not there's an overlap but it's not the same thing as computer programming it's not okay okay um but his course load is intense and it's it's it's highly uh mathematical a lot of math involved a lot of equations a lot of problem solving I never actually had to do that much math in my program it was mostly a coding coding okay you write a lot of code yes now do you write what what type of language do you write I've used A C C plus plus Java and Java would be web-based job isn't really for for writing no uh for websites Java is more generic yeah okay but C plus plus is the is the the more popular coding for computer programs yes yeah okay and uh how what made you decide to get interested in that well I was kind of a nerd in high school and I took and I took a course uh on uh computer programming I took one course I was programming in high school and after that I decided I really liked coding and I wanted to uh sign up for a um programming a program in uh College really and then you just carried it through and you got into Seneca and yes we're good now was it difficult getting into Seneca did you obviously I had to the only difficult part was ensuring that I had high grades right near the end of high school right right right right so did you finish grade 12 or did you want to grade 13 I'm trying to think I finished grade 12. okay they didn't have grade 13 when you no they've already they already discontinued that long uh before I started high school that's what I thought yeah that's what I thought because that's because when I when I first got from BC I grew up out west in Victoria I don't know if you ever traveled the country I've never been to a BC before have you been anywhere else in Canada I've been to uh Quebec you've been in Quebec to visit yes but have you been yeah do you travel anywhere else no okay well yeah BC is uh in BC uh this is back in 1984 when I graduated and it's still to this day they only have grade 12. but when I moved out here when I was 19 20 years old they had is what they could call it OAC they could hold it which was a great food team which was like a University Prep gear so if you were going to go on the University or college you'd take grade 13 but then they discontinued that but I can't remember I couldn't remember exactly when they did that so I assume that maybe perhaps you were still part of that so you you get into Seneca and it's how how many is a two-year program fire program four so were you in your fourth year this semester was supposed to be my final semester final semester yes and you'd be graduating with a Bachelor of Science Bachelor of software development uh about yourself really well did you have did you have tests or anything to complete or I already completed everything so you basically you finished yes so when was your last day my last day of classes was uh last Wednesday last Wednesday and so when would your when would you when would you be told that you would you you had graduated when would your graduation date be I would have found out my final grades this Saturday this Saturday yes okay so were you required to do anything between now and Saturday yeah so that's it you're finished yes wow congratulations thank you good for you that's no that's quite an achievement yeah you got a notch of science that's a lot more than what I got I'll tell you that I went to University and I I only I only took uh well I got a diploma in Business Administration that I did two years in uh taking Finance but I never completed I never finished my University wish I had I just there's a lot of work but I couldn't do it it was too much well that's good wow that's uh that's quite an achievement have you um so but you hadn't lined anything up as far as a jump it worked well I don't wish to answer that you're okay all right okay I understand I understand um my understanding is you're living at home you don't live on your own am I right I don't wish but you have a good relationship with your mom and dad yes yeah and as your relationship always been good with your mom and dad yes okay and if they've been supportive and loving throughout your life yes and um were there any difficulties in your life growing up with your mom and dad no no uh what about with school or the difficulties with uh with with school growing up no no uh and so when I talk about that I'm talking about like the school curriculum you know the you know going to school learning and and completing your assignments and things like that were there any issues no okay what about the students I know I never had anything never had any issue with any of the students or anything like that no former classmates of amnassian described him as not overly social and harmless um uh and I say this uh because you know sometimes these things are important uh were you um how are you treated by the other students I was treated well you treated well okay um did you have any difficulties with any particular group of students no no uh what about difficulties with [Music] uh girls in particular no no no difficulties with girls at all no no not at all how do you feel about uh girls in general I am attracted to them well you are okay okay so you're heterosexual yes would it be fair to say that okay that's important um have you ever had a relationship with a with a female I don't wish to answer that okay um in terms of females I mean females and women because you're 25 you're a young man right we'll call them women in terms of your feelings towards women in general how would you describe that I would say that sometimes I am a bit upset that they choose to uh date uh obnoxious men instead of a gentleman yeah so I I um I have a well I got involved in this as well I'll talk about later but um I I um so my understanding is um you you have some problems with women who date obnoxious men right and these guys don't think you're talking about the fellows who are allowed uh arrogant um uh generally uh outgoing and popular with girls yes is that what you're talking about yes okay um and you have a problem with the women that date these fellas yes why is it they have a problem with with the women because I feel that uh it's illogical to be uh dating such men when they could be dating a gentleman instead right right right that makes sense I mean and I've seen that because I've grown up and I'll tell you one of the issues that I had as a kid growing up because I was this is going to say you might not believe me but believe I was I wasn't a very big kid growing up I was actually very very small uh and it took me a long time to to to grow and uh so as a result uh the I you know I I was kind of ostracized you know you by ostracized I always kind of cast aside yeah yeah and uh or uh I left out like I wouldn't get picked for teams you know or anything like that you know it's kind of the last guy you ever see those uh those uh you know those television shows where you know all the kids are lined up and they're getting picked for you know the teams and there's always one guy left out at the end yeah that was me that was that was that was that guy and uh and I never I was never very popular with uh women girls in in school and uh and that kind of actually went on through uh to early part of my my adulthood uh until I started you know getting taller and uh mature right but I understand exactly what you meant because I was as a kid growing up I was um you know I mean I was like any other kid any other young man right you would look at uh attractive girls and I knew I was probably just as smart if not smarter than some of the clowns they were dating but because for whatever reason I didn't have what it took they wouldn't you know they wouldn't date me because I think because I was short they wouldn't date me and they'd end up dating you know the tall jocks and the other you know the good looking fellows so were you talking about yes yeah and then yeah then you kind of resent these girls right yeah because you know that's kind of a superficial way of deciding you know who it is because height is an unfair you can't control your height right exactly right right right right right right what other things can't you control you can't control uh your looks either exactly exactly yeah that's a good point although you're not a bad looking guy thank you no you are a good looking guy you keep yourself well and you're good you're fit you know you're tall what other things can you control I'm unaware I'm not aware of anything else you can't control uh what about um like physical disabilities right obviously if you were blind or you know fortunately you can't control that yeah you can't control that that's what I mean so these are things you can't control or um you know other disabilities you know if you're mentally handicapped or if you uh you you know you're you have an amputee or uh you know there's there's other other things and I and I and so so does that would you include that in those those issues that you can't control yes and so uh so how long have you had this um this feeling towards uh women who are attracted to you know this particular type of guy ever since I uh started uh College ever since you started college okay did was it was it something that occurred as a result of a single incident like it was there one particular moment in your life where it sort of struck home this was a problem or was it just a uh on Halloween of a 2013 I was attending a house party and I walked in and attempted to uh socialize with some girls uh however they all laughed at me and uh held the arms of the big guys instead the same manasian described sounds like it came straight out of a movie that might not be too far from the truth since the police have never been satisfied that this was manasian's full motivation really yeah well that's kind of rude and how did that make you feel I felt uh very angry that they would because I considered myself a supreme gentleman I was angry that that they would give their love and affection to obnoxious moods [Music] and so it was at that particular moment and that was sort of the defining moment that made you think that you know this is this is wrong and you know these people are yes I'm fairly treating you in the way that they were yes yeah that makes sense I appreciate you talking about that that says a lot and um so so from that point on what uh you know what what what did you start doing I started thinking that it's unfair that um certain uh guys will not get any love and affection from girls what do you mean by certain guys such as me that are that are very nice and uh acting gentlemanly right right are there other guys did you find other guys there I know of several other guys over the Internet who feel the same way but I know they are I would consider them a true cowardly to uh act on their anger oh okay and so on the internet where were you talking about in terms of uh specifically uh certain boards on a four Chad oh okay Fortune I'm familiar with 4chan so that's uh such as r9k and a pool okay so describe fortunate to me what is what what is 4chan specifically it's an image board uh where uh people tend to anonymously make any post they want uh the three boards that I have uh frequented are B which is the random board okay yeah Pol or pool stands for politically uh incorrect okay I know r9k which uh is basically means r9000. it's uh in effect they're saying we're all robots anyone who uh messages on that board okay so those are the three boards that you you you you go to yes to to uh is it fair to say you chat yes you chat so you chat with other similar minded people yes right so 4chan is a website and within 4chan there are these messaging boards yes and they're individual boards specific to like-minded people yes and how many boards would there be in total unfortunately there are about 50 different boards on 4chan but most of them are actually uh unrelated to the uh to be our 19 or or pool therefore I don't bother going on them right right because they're because in fact if you try if I try to talk about topics that I was talking about on those other boards my posters get deleted oh okay all right so there's moderators yes uh who monitor the conversations and they you know they they kind of police the the conversations and if you're not part of the group conversation they they kick you out yes okay that makes sense so when did you first start going on to 4chan since uh 2014. oh okay all right how did you learn about 410 I was informed about it uh by a friend at college oh okay all right and was he on it as well yes okay what's his name I don't wish to answer okay I understand but nevertheless it's a friend who's unfortunate was he in the same uh was he in the same uh chat rooms yes okay all right and so you would you have conversation with him in those chat rooms yes okay all right and so how many other people would be in the in these in these three particular chaplains you to talk about it doesn't actually tell you how many are in there at once because it doesn't as a software it's not actually a child it's more like a message board or anyone can post it anytime by simply going to the thread but they don't have to see there oh I see so it's not live it's not live chat no it's a it's a thread So when you say it's a threat it's a it's essentially like a forum right so you make a statement and then somebody will uh answer or they will reply to that's your statement right you've got or they might reply to the original poster or it is known as op right okay I see okay okay and so the the the general content of these three the forums that manassian mentioned will be investigated to see if any others helped him plan this or otherwise encouraged him so the the what what's the general uh uh uh the topic Within These message boards well on B the uh or random the general topic is random it's literally any random uh um topic on r9k it's they uh call us space robots uh the topic is usually uh frustrations at an inability to lose one's a virginity specifically for young males okay uh Paul which is Politically Incorrect is the general topic is basically political discussions with an alt-right bias legal systems and ALT right so you're you're Ultra conservative you'd be an ultra Republican yes okay so you what would your what would your political views be in the alt-right uh uh message board I actually don't have any uh political views I only uh the only reason I have talked with them was just because I enjoyed their style of a conversation okay and what was the style of conversation uh it was very uh blunt and honest so when what would it be what would it typically Focus around or what would they what would the typical conversations contain uh radical truths about uh why uh women uh choose to date a obnoxious men take the chance Thomas makes a small slip by referring to Chad a term he should not know until manasian has a chance to explain fortunately manasian is so caught up in telling his story that he doesn't notice yeah yeah basically the Stacy's going for the challenge exactly the Stacy's are the you know the you know the the Dizzy dumb girls dating the the goofy you know jocks yeah right right right so you called Stacy's and chats yeah I've heard that term before uh and so that's in the old ring yes that conversation takes place you know right as well yes does do other things take place in the all right some some um all right members consider them to those cells to be uh red pilled is that like a matrix actually it is in fact that turmoil is actually in fact um uh came up as a reference to Matrix taking the red you can either take the red pill or you can take the blue pill right and some of them some alright members even consider them to be those to be a black pill which is in essence means they're a mgtow men going their own way oh okay all right okay all right okay you're right yep okay so and so the so the conversations are surrounding uh so in those three message boards they're all basically this or maybe it's incl3 but in the two message boards the alt-right and the space robots but the conversations tend to be focused around um uh fellows who have been unable to lose their virginity due to the stases of this world in the chats yes right and uh I I've done a little bit of um uh reading and I know a little bit about involuntary uh celebrity celibacy right so it's being celibate involuntarily celibate what does that mean that means an celebrity means uh someone who would never perform has a sexual intercourse right involuntary celebrity means this wasn't your choice essentially our uh have been thrown into true forced loneliness and you are unable to lose your virginity this is especially uh painful for uh young males right right that makes sense and there's other are there not other websites that cater to this group of people as well forever alone have you ever heard of them I have heard of the forever alone uh subreddit and subred subreddit you've heard of those yes okay and would it is it fair to say forever alone is this is a is a forum within subreddit it is a subreddit that's the definition of subreddit is basically a section of Reddit right right right yes exactly right so it would be like the 4chan that the kind of in a way yeah okay all right are you on forever alone yes you're on that as well yes okay and what other what other sites are you on I don't I can't uh recall other sites off the bat at the moment what's your what's your username in uh forever alone I don't wish to answer that okay well what about 4chan there is no username because you're always Anonymous you don't want to register on 4chan well and that's what makes Fortune popular yeah because it makes it very easy and you kind of uh hide behind a computer screen right right right right okay and so when you're on the internet where you typically when you're when you're accessing these websites are you at home yes yeah okay any of you got a computer at home you obviously you do yes okay um uh do you ever access them with any other type of device yes I have access to them uh from a school before from school and where's that at Seneca yes and and what department um in within the school library oh that's common to all the students oh I see do you have one particular computer that you go to I've always gone to the computer at the uh northeast corner of the library just as uh because I'm a person of habit right right okay nasian has Asperger's which means he likely used one specific computer at the school library and may have even avoided using a computer at all that day if someone was already using that one and uh uh is there a number on that computer or anything like that no but I'm always gravitated to the exact same spot I'm able to I just instinctually know this is exactly where I've always sat every time right right right what type of computer is that Windows 10. no I mean in terms of the uh the hardware what is the make of the hardware uh I'm not sure to be honest I know it's a workstation it's a workstation so it's not a laptop correct it's it's like uh it's a box and a flat screen and it's at the North East Court you said northeast corner so if if I was to walk into the library uh where would the doors be to the front entrance of the library they would be um very uh close to the um the southeast entrance of the uh S Building of Seneca at York okay this and the S building contains the library yes okay and uh the southeast entrance and then you'd walk then you then you would as soon as you enter you would turn left and then when you walk then you'll see the entrance to the library on the left hand side oh I see okay throw me a picture what the library looks like yeah the library yeah or where the computer is Thomas hasmanacy and draw a map to ensure that they find the right computer manasian should be able to do this easily since he will have memorized the path in the room to the location he finds the most comfortable that's essentially the um the main layout so so so look at this that's North the top of the page is north east west and south yes okay where's the entrance of northeast corner is the entrance yes and this this is a around the corner where I um you know where I prefer to a Sit when using their computers okay but put a circle or a square how would you uh show me where you where you're where the I would put it here to be it's not actually the very northeast corner Because the actual northeast corner has a bunch of maps uh I'm I'm using the most Northeast uh Windows computer there okay just put uh put computer be something okay um do me a favor just sign the bottom there so I know that that's yours so you're you're you're you're you're kind of a fellow of of habit you you've got a routine you stick to it yes okay and the computer at home where's that located it's located in my room oh okay what type of computer is that a mac oh so you but you do like so you own a map well I'm I'm good with both Max and windows and windows yeah but you prefer Windows here yeah really but you have them back I use it for development oh so there's a difference in terms of the versatility of the different of the computers is that is that how it works right yes oh I see okay so for development you like the Mac but for surfing the web you like the the windows yes oh okay that makes sense all right and and your your Mac is it a uh is a laptop oh okay what what uh what what version is it I believe it's High Sierra if I remember correctly Sierra that's that's just the operating system name no I'm saying is it like a MacBook Air or is it a Macbook uh MacBook Pro it's a MacBook Pro so it's the thicker of the yeah okay so it's it's about it's about uh three quarters of an inch or something okay what color is it uh Steeler gray colors yeah so they come in the standard eh and where what's in your room is your is your is your laptop on my desk it's on your desk you got a desk inside your room yes okay how many bedrooms in your house I don't wish to answer that oh okay all right do you have your own I just I just don't want to give up the privacy of uh anyone else living in the house I totally understand that I totally understand that makes a lot of sense and I appreciate you telling me that you know what that you know and like I said you know if if that's if that's the issue please let me know uh can I ask you this do you have your own bedroom yes okay um so uh so when you're on 4chan uh what specifically are you and and you know Fortune when you're in your different websites and Forever Alone which let me ask you this sorry I mean it sounds confusing which are you more active on in terms of Fortune okay um when did you first sorry you mentioned this and I forgot when did you first go on the 410 2014 2014 and specifically when in 2014. May 23 uh 2014. how are you able to remember that because I remember there was a very significant day okay what would it was what was that uh that was when Elliot Roger uh decided to essentially uh commit an uprising a beta Uprising if you will right against the uh chance and the species okay and that was in the United States yes and so when you talk about because um incels don't believe in borders right okay okay so what so locations are irrelevant to us right right but for for geographical reference only am I right to understand it it occurred in California yes okay and uh what what type of um uh what what type of Uprising occurred what happened it was a beta Uprising a beta president although he didn't uh call it a veto Uprising at the time uh someone else who was inspired by him by the name of a Chris Uprising sometime in uh actually I believe it was October 1 uh 2015. it was 2014. again Thomas betrays the fact that he has researched the subject beforehand he probably shouldn't have argued about the date with manassian even if he was correct no uh some CR someone else named Chris Harper Mercer in 2015 uh called to DaVita Uprising I'm only retroactively uh assigning libel Abita Uprising to the Elliott Rogers okay uh moves I thought Chris Harper Mercer uh uh committed a beta Uprising in Oregon in 2014. which later fueled Elliott Roger to do something similar in California in 2016. it was actually uh the other way around Ellie Roger in 2014 his what you're right I'm sorry yes his um what I'm uh retroactively calling uh beat Uprising inspired uh Chris Harper Mercer to do the same thing in 2015. you're absolutely right yeah yeah you're absolutely right that makes that makes a lot of sense so uh it was uh Elliot Roger Who was the the father basically the the founding forefather the entire movement right right so explain to me this movement what's this movie about that's basically it's basically a moment of angry insults such as myself who are unable to get laid therefore we want to overthrow the Chads which would uh Force the Stacy's to be forced to reproduce with the incels right right okay when you say in cells involuntary uh celibate celibate so that's just a short form for for for for fellas who can't lead can't can't have sex and uh what happened in the uh Elliott Rogers uh uh Uprising what did he do I know he uh used a uh gun as well as saying a vehicle to um convert their life status of certain individuals to a death status right um only to uh carry the message that incels uh can't be oppressed right right so it was uh uh it was an act of rebellion yes it was uh and uh and um out of frustration and anger you could call it an insult rebellion in cell Rebellion exactly right yeah okay and um uh how many how many uh lives were converted from living to to debt six six in total okay and um uh and he used a vehicle in that as well as part of the process of converting these lives yes and uh was anything else did he do anything else I know he used a uh a knife for his first three murders for his first three verse okay all right and um and then uh what about um Chris uh Harper Mercer what uh what did he do just a gun for uh all of his murders for all of his murders and how many did he yeah when he did how many people did he murdered I believe it was it was either eight killed and ten injured or uh 10 killed any injured okay it was one of those two okay and were these fellas active on Fortune yes they were have you ever communicated with these phones I actually have as a matter of fact who did you communicate with both of them actually really we used uh code names actually okay what was what were they uh Elliot Roger was named of altharion valtharian yes p-a-l-t-h-a-r-i-o-n okay and uh what was Chris uh Harper Mercer's name Space robot Space robot one word or two uh one word or camel case camel case that means the sneh are uh were uh both capitalized oh I see okay okay uh and okay and what was your what was your what was your code name Xbox light side Xbox light side all one word all one word camel cased no only the uh first letter was capitalized the X yes okay all right and uh so what did you discuss with these guys we discussed our frustrations at um Society I'm being unable to get laid and we were plotting a certain uh timed strikes on society in order to uh confuse and Shake foundations just to put all the uh normies in a uh state of panic in these types of forums such discussions are commonplace most often they are instigated by trolls and are not meant to be taken seriously they are purely for shock value for very literal people such as monosian this can pose a problem in distinguishing which conversations have serious intent it is also unusual that he is using words like Normie in conversation as they are not really used outside of chat rooms and forums normal people that would be anyone who is uh considered to be a normal by the unfair standards of society but not the chance of Stacy's chances Chads and Stacy's are actually um above the normies or at least they think they're above versus yes okay all right so is it fair to say you've got Chads and Stacy's up here normies down here and then you've got celebs who believe that they are being impossible sorry yes in cells who believe they're being suppressed or repressed and and so as a result even the playing field yes the you know they they uh they convert the stacies and chats from living to dead so that we come out on us on top yeah it's more that so is there so the the targets who are the targets for the this Uprising be all of the alpha males all the alpha males so the chats yes so that's those are the people you that that you want to kill yes okay all right and who else any uh any of the Stacy's who uh do not wish to give their love and affection to the incels so they they they're a Target as well yes to be killed yes okay and what about the normies yeah normies yes we do we do we don't necessarily wish to uh kill the normies but we do wish to subjugate them uh in order to make them understand that the um that our type is uh the more Superior one right right so when you say subjugate what do you mean by that I mean meaning uh either imprison them or put them in a lower position in society okay so that they acknowledge um the incels or the uh Pepe the Frog types as the more Superior ones okay so you're saying things that I'm not familiar uh well we uh he's he's a mask on a 4chan we uh he's a mascot yes or mascot unfortunately yes I was I was using a metaphor okay okay yeah so uh he's actually a worshiped uh quite frequently oh okay okay all right so going back to the conversation with with Chris and um and uh Elliot you're talking to these fellas now when when are you having these conversations when the when is when do these conversations start taking place um before uh obviously before their massacres because they're both dead now right right right right right right okay and uh and then once you learned of the so what so it was Elliot who was first in 2014. yes so what did Elliot what did what did you and Elliot talk about let me let me I I find you very interesting I do and I I find this fascinating um but I want to make sure I don't go too fast um did you have did you who did you have conversation with first let me ask you that Elliot Elliot so how did you learn of Elliot because on um on the private message each other on Reddit after I saw one of his posts uh and uh we just talked about each other and got to know each other and we've found each other very interesting we both have the same uh frustrations on society despite being separated by distance uh so far apart right right right did you ever visit him I know but I wish I could have yeah yeah did you ever come and visit you no but I wish you did yeah yeah did you ever communicate uh outside of uh Fortune did you ever communicate on anything else Reddit what's the first place we uh communicated oh okay and was it uh forever alone yes in that in that subgroup yes okay uh did you ever communicate on any other medium or platform uh other than Reddit and 4 channel so you didn't Skype or call on the phone or anything like no okay so how long does this conversation with Elliot so when so when specifically you may have mentioned the night but I wasn't listening when specifically did your first Contact or have contact with Elia January of 2014 2014. there is no evidence that manassian was ever in communication with Roger and uh when did you stop having communication with him uh as soon as he was deceased okay so uh his act I know took place in 2014 but I wasn't aware of the exact day what day was it May 23 uh 2014 May 23rd yeah you said that uh so when did you last speak to him me uh 20 May 20th and so what did he tell you he told me that uh he has to go he must he is on a very important Mission and uh he might not make it back alive so what did you say to him I uh kind of had an idea in my head of what he was planning but I didn't want to I think it was true at the time so I said so I replied and said uh I wish you a good luck with that okay okay and uh were there anybody was there anybody else in this conversation it was a private uh conversation it was a private okay so there's nobody else speaking no okay and you can have private conversations outside of 4chan well like I said it was a Reddit private message oh sorry uh forever yeah uh forever alone yeah because anyone can uh just private message to each other since you have a registered account right okay okay so you can go on the The Forum and and the threads and leave messages and then you can speak to people outside of the threads privately yes okay I'm just mad because I I haven't been on these these websites so it's uh but I've heard about them so I'm just trying to get familiarize with with how it works so did uh was there was there as far as you were was there anyone else involved in uh Elliott Rogers uh uh mission I believe that he told me that uh other members of uh a 4chan were giving him uh encouraging support so that he would have the courage to uh start his Rebellion right right right okay and so you last speak to him on March 20th May 20th I'm sorry May 20th 2014. yes he commits his his acts on the 23rd of May yes and when did you learn that uh when he had done I saw it on the news later that night later on on the 23rd yes okay and what did you think uh I thought that I came to the understanding that this is the mission that he had to uh carry out okay all right and anything else I felt kind of proud of him for uh his acts of Bravery okay all right and what about uh how you started to to to change your thinking what was was anything was that was any of that going on I was starting to feel eradicalized at that time you're worrying okay this statement is another reason why investigators suspect that manassian is lying about his motivation the use of the word radicalized is seen as negative and it is not a natural way for him to refer to himself especially if he believes in his so-called cause and when you say radicalized what do you mean by that meaning I felt it was time to take action and not just sit on the sidelines and to just uh fester in my own sadness okay and so um so this this is starting this is a process it's not something that just I mean the the day that you realized that uh you were a celeb was the day that you were ridiculed by these girls at this party depend on Halloween of 2013. right but then as you got to know uh Elliott and then understanding his his uh his uh Mission and uh what he had done you began to to start become radicalized in terms of your thought process yes okay and so what takes place next as part of this this this growing radicalization to be honest uh planning didn't occur until about a month ago most of it was actually just thinking okay and daydreaming okay all right so the thinking and daydreaming when did that start that started about a month after the rebellion in May of 2014. okay so I mean since on June I started thinking about this stuff and then that continued you right up until about a month ago yes which is when I uh booked uh the uh van with the writer in order to uh use as a tool for Rebellion okay all right so take me through that process what was going through your mind and how was you know what were you thinking when you were doing all of this what was going on I was thinking that it was a time that I uh stood up to the chats and Stacy's okay and then and then so what happened so this tell me what takes place so I booked the van and then I just simply wait until uh today and then I go rent the band and then I uh drive it take it downtown to Toronto okay and I just start using it as a weapon okay all right and and so when you say that what do you mean by that meaning I it the vehicle collided with uh several pedestrians some of who are no longer alive as a result right right okay okay uh okay and uh so that's a lot of information take me back to a month ago you said this is when this whole planning started yes okay so about a month ago where were you at that point I was at Seneca College and I decided to uh phone Ryder and uh book either a truck or a van with them and they had a a 10 foot van uh available so I figured that this is perfect I can not it's big enough to have an effect but not too big that I can't maneuver with it so Vine was the perfect uh medium size to use as my uh weapon right on okay so you're at Seneca yes you said and we're specifically at Seneca are you I was at the college library and give me the phone call at the college library when you made the phone call yes so the the library that you just drew for me yes okay and where were you specifically in the library these desks okay there's actually a my face was facing north so show me so show me where you were I was sitting here facing this way okay so you just uh just put uh you just put um write or phone call okay so you're sitting there and this is about a month ago what day specifically is this it was near the uh beginning of April so it wasn't exactly a month ago was but almost a month ago okay all right so you're at your desk and what time of day is it midday midday and uh you said you made a phone call yes manasian did not make any effort to hide his identity when looking for a vehicle to use which supports the theory that he wanted to be caught how do you make that phone call um by Googling uh the rental number for uh the nearest uh Rider location okay and how do you Google the I just simply uh said uh Ryder uh rental locations on my laptop on your laptop okay so when you say on your laptop were you using a school computer no actually I was using a Windows computer because I because I know I said before I have a Mac but I also have a Windows which I take to school just because I don't want the Mac to get damaged okay so you've got two laptops yes oh okay uh what's your other laptop the windows black and windows yeah no I guess is it uh I mean what's the the name of the the actual laptop the the make uh it's an it's a Lenovo Lenovo oh I see okay and what color is that black black and where is that uh in your bedroom uh it's located in my closet oh okay all right you're you're where your a your clothes yes above them above it's on the top shelf yes oh okay how many closets in your in your bedroom just one just a one okay uh so you take that the Lenovo laptop to your school yes uh at Seneca and in the library at the desk you Google the nearest Rider yes Rental Truck Rental yes okay and what made you decide to choose Ryder uh because I had looked up some reviews online at the uh or act people were saying a good stuff about them because I looked at some other companies such as U-Haul and people were complaining about them saying that the trucks never arrive on time there's the customer support is terrible out there but these people love the brighter oh okay all right okay if that makes sense uh so this was just reviews that you'd read online that made you choose writer yes okay can I ask why were you looking specifically for a trunk because it would be uh large enough to inflict severe damage okay that makes sense uh okay so how do you contact writer by owning them basically and what what phone do you use my cell phone oh okay so you've got a cell phone with you yes all right what type of phone is that Android an Android phone okay and that's an actual make that's it's well it's either your phone's either going to be Android or iOS my phone is uh Android what's the make of the phone number Asus zenfor of the Asus Zenfone 4. okay and where is that phone what do you mean by where where is where is your cell phone right now it was uh confiscated also we have it yes okay and what's the phone number to yourself 416-836-9711 okay and so your call writer and uh from Sonic and uh What uh writer um Truck Rental what's the address uh 700 uh Cornerstone Road oh okay and so what do you say though what's the conversation I just um said hey how are you doing I was interested in uh renting a truck I I told him that I wanted to just help a friend move furniture around okay all right do you remember the individual you spoke to I believe was either a Matt or Mike a mat or a mic okay and uh what does it matter in Wake stick that yeah we do have some uh trucks available and that uh we can rent them out to you and that he asked me when I wished to uh rent it and I said April 23 and lo and behold it was available today okay can I ask why you chose April 21st I uh it was a I felt it would be a more symbolic if I had a completed my exams okay okay but apart from the 23rd there was no other reason no so if you finished your exams on the 15th it would have been the 15th it would have been the 16th of the 16th okay all right uh so yeah yeah how long is your conversation with the follow from Ryder about two minutes okay because it was fairly quick okay all right and then what happens so you made this phone call sorry let me ask you this did you reserve the truck yes okay and what did what did you tell him in terms of reserving how is that going to take place um I I said that we agree that I could just simply uh pick it up okay did you have to give a deposit or anything like that yes I had to give it was about a 400 deposit when I uh arrived at the location okay but that's not till later correct okay so you just reserved the truck there was no requirement for you to give any type of credit card or formal payment correct okay so you reserve the truck then what happens then I uh simply uh record the uh reservation and then I uh go on that date to uh pick it up so nothing happens for approximately one month correct so you don't you're not thinking about this I am thinking about it but I didn't need to make any further preparations the ease with which manassian pulled everything off is alarming he was able to cause a great deal of Devastation with very little effort okay so what are you thinking about well you know you're waiting to make these preparations or waiting to rent the truck uh the uprising I was thinking that I would inspire a future masses to uh join me in my Uprising as well okay all right how are you gonna do that uh I was going to uh tell uh people on a 4chan uh beforehand okay all right and did you do that yes I did I did a one day in advance oh okay all right so did you actually go into 4chan yes and post messages yes okay and and what name did you or is there Anonymous who said that yeah that's that's the default if you don't specify a name it's going to say Anonymous okay did you did you specify a name no it was Anonymous okay it's always Anonymous okay and what time did you go on to four chat approximately at 3 P.M yesterday 3 P.M yesterday okay and what specifically did you say I was using a code language to avoid uh detection by the authorities I was I stated that there will be a beta Uprising tomorrow I encourage others to follow suit okay okay and did you post on any other uh mediums medians mediums media media any any other no just a fortune just 4chan okay did anybody reply yes uh quite a few people uh were uh congratulating me because I suspect they probably knew what I meant by what I said okay and in fact uh I remember there was one poster who said he was from Edmonton and he would be planning a similar Uprising in November uh 15 of this year of this year okay okay and what specifically did he say in terms of what he said hey thanks man uh you can give you given me great inspiration November 15th Edmonton the continuation of the Rebellion okay okay those are his words okay I understand okay and uh uh so that was uh the one thing you did to as you were thinking about this and planning uh what what else were you were you were you doing well I was um finishing up my schoolwork as a normal yeah okay all right because I still have to worry about my schoolwork right of course anything else uh no nothing out of the outside of the ordinary so in terms of your uh in terms of the time that you spent thinking about this over that month if you were to break it down into a percentage I would say 80 of the time was spent thinking about it even while I was doing other activities you were you were thinking about yeah I was very preoccupied with it very preoccupied with it okay and in this thinking what were you thinking specifically about how how the foundations of the world would be shooken by this event okay and uh when you say that what do you mean by the foundations of this world meaning that I I I was fairly confident that others would be inspired to uh repeat the same actions as me and basically just to overthrow Society okay although it would be closer to the truth to say that manassian was hoping for notoriety to make up for the perceived lack of attention he felt this type of crime often inspires copycats okay and uh so this is sorry is there any other thought process going on that was pretty much the mean top process and uh okay so then it comes to today or yesterday the 23rd right because I guess the Midnight's already passed yeah exactly so it was yesterday so um walk me through your day you get up in the morning what time do you get up uh at about seven about seven o'clock okay and then what do you do I have breakfast I brush nothing unusual right and then what happens I check my emails uh just to see if there's any scroll School related stuff or anything that such as job offers anything like that and then I'll go for a walk around the neighborhood and then uh then I went uh to the rider location yesterday and uh just took the van and uh brought it out to Toronto and a and then I committed the strawberries act okay all right so you get up around seven yes okay uh you said you had some breakfast yes you brushed yes okay uh you go on your your computer yes what computer are you what computer are we on Mac the mac and you said you check some emails yes did you get any emails that related to this I know did you send any out in relation to this no okay so you uh you're on your computer how long you're on your computer for I'm on there for several hours a day okay just because mainly uh since I'm a software developer anyways I would have to use my computer anyways right right okay and then from there uh you go for a walk yes okay now uh where do you where do you go for one uh around the neighborhood they just just walked around yes okay when do you leave the house uh usually at about 8 A.M after I've already finished breakfast and have a Russian and everything okay and so uh you leave the house around 8 A.M and you just walk around the neighborhood yes and what are you thinking about as as you're walking around and everything I'm uh thinking I'm just thinking about life okay is is your focus on your mission at all or anything like that sometimes to be honest I'm not thinking about it 100 of the time uh sometimes I'm just trying to when I walk I just try to clear my thoughts okay all right uh were you conscious this morning though that today was the day that this yes I was very aware of it very aware it was very pressing on my life very pressing okay so how long are you outside of the house usually my walks are about half an hour to an hour so is it fair to say that's how long you wrote today yes okay and uh from the time you get up to the time you leave the house do you have conversation with anybody you mean just yesterday already yeah uh no no okay and when you're outside do you speak to anybody uh no are you uh chatting with anyone on your phone during this time ball or anything like that no uh you're not messaging on 4chan or anything like that I did post a Facebook message uh right before the uh the attack okay stating that the incel Rebellion has already begun okay and uh okay all right uh posted it with my phone okay so let's just work up to that so now you've gone for a walk uh it's pressing on your mind this this attack you you come back home for 45 minutes to an hour later so what time is that I would say that would be a approximately nine nine o'clock okay and uh and then what do you do then I just uh I sit back uh I sit on my computer just play some random uh browser games until it's uh it's time to leave okay and so what computer are you on Mac Mac and what browser games are you playing what do you mean by that uh just random games on the internet I was actually I was actually playing uh City jumper it's a very old game okay it's uh I just wanted to pass the time until I left okay and so while you're playing this game do you have a particular time in your mind that you're going to do this uh while the truck rental was uh or van rental was at a 1pm okay so and I already had a Google Maps route plan I uh left the house at 11 25 I took the bus to uh the rider location okay so you're at home I just want to make sure I'm curious to what was going on so you're at home you're playing some online video games yes uh you knew that the truck rental was at one o'clock yes so uh you leave the house at 12 25 yes okay and how do you leave the house no sorry 11 25 sorry 11 25 11 25 how do you leave the house uh on foot I walked to the bus stop manassian had a general idea of where he would strike but his plans were not exact he knew which ramp he wanted to use but beyond that he played it by ear okay I take the bus stop I take the bus uh very uh close to the rider location okay and then I walk from the where I go office stop to that rental location and then I there from there I picked up the bed okay so when you what what bus stop did you catch the bus I uh went on 85c Westbound at my house and then I transferred to another bus Which unfortunately I don't remember the number because I've only used that that other route is not one of the uh main routes so I don't remember the number okay so where's the bus stop that you would have attended in order to to board the bus the first bus was uh bb-16th did you walk the baby in 16 yes because it's only about five minutes from my house okay and so you there's a bus stop there at Bayview and 16th yes and I'm assuming we're talking about a York Regional Transit bus yes and what was the name of the bus the number of the bus 85c 85c in it and which direction is that bus going west it's going West on 16th no yes 16th yes okay it's going West on 16th so you you catch that bus yes and how do you uh how do you pay to get on the bus uh bus ticket a bus ticket okay um and uh what time do you get on the bus at about 11 30 11 30. it's about five minutes from your house and then how long of a bus ride till you get off and get on the on the next bus it was about uh half an hour until the next bus okay so where do you get off the first bus what what bus stop do you get off of uh Highway seven and uh Weston Highway 7 and Weston okay and you board a second bus yes and where did you board that second bus at that same stop same stop and uh what you don't know the number of that bus I don't remember unfortunately okay but that's it's a York Regional Transit bus yes okay and so what direction do you do you head uh when you get on the second bus it went North and then it went East again and then it's dropped me off about a five minute walk from the truck rental location okay so what street without it been at I don't remember unfortunately because it was at one of those small neighborhood roads but it was very close to a credit Stone Road it was very close to credit Stone Road Yes Credit Stone Road what would be the major intersection I believe the uh bordering Street was um Pennsylvania Avenue was actually a neighborhood Road it wasn't a major intersection okay okay so credit Stone in Pennsylvania yes it was it was in or around that location yes and from there you walk to the rider uh Rent A Truck Rental yes okay and uh do you have your cell phone on you at this time it was coffee oh at that time yeah uh yes okay the same cell phone you just told me the Acer cell phone Asus Zenfone 4 right that phone yes okay the phone was one of the few things monosian was carrying on him at the time but it was still very useful since he used it to access social media uh do you receive or make any phone calls during that time okay uh what about uh okay we'll ask you that later so you walk to the rental store or the truck rental store what time do you arrive at the truck rental store at about uh 12 30. okay okay 12 30. all right and so you walk in and what do you do I uh say hi my name is Alec madassian I'm uh here I know I'm early but I have a truck rental at one um so then I end up filling out some forms signing some stuff I wait a bit and then eventually I'm given the van okay and the individual you speak to what do they look like he was wearing a uh bright vest bright vest okay what color of skin did he have white white skin did you catch a name oh no no uh how old would you have been he was probably in his 30s I mean what color was his hair it was dark brown dark brown how tall was he uh he was about five nine oh five nine how much did he weigh I would estimate to be about 150 to 150. 152 152 152 pounds yes okay I'm very precise like that okay okay that's good okay and so in terms of his build how would you describe his build um it was kind of lean but slightly muscular at the same time oh okay all right uh uh a little official hair uh he was clean-shaping clean shape okay any other distinguishing characteristics about him that would put you know Center him out from anyone else none in particular okay so sorry what do you say you're there early but you want to know if this truck is available yes okay and uh in terms of the trucks did you have uh were you given a choice of trucks I was given I was given a choice um when I was making the uh for the phone call earlier this month right so I chose the 10 foot one okay and although it's actually a van uh but we were it was it's sometimes being referred to as a truck uh during the rental right right where uh so I'm assuming there were there were various sizes of trucks vans available yes okay was the band the largest no it was actually quite small compared to the actual trucks Okay so what did you what did you why did you choose the van uh because it was larger than a car therefore large enough to be effective but not so large that immediate maneuverability hard oh I see okay that makes sense and when did you come to that realization I was thinking about it before I um a while before I made the phone call I was thinking I need something powerful enough to be effective but like I said before uh and small enough that it's uh maneuverable okay so you were thinking about that before was this when specifically this this thought process come into your mind about two days before I made the phone call okay manassian did not put a lot of thought into his plan once he had an idea he went with the simplest means available to achieve his goal aside from his conversations online he did very little that would have aroused suspicion is it fair to say you reserved a larger truck but then when you went into Rider after thinking about the logistics of your mission you know I just um the van that I used was the was what I uh rented oh okay all right okay uh okay so you're at the counter you rent the van uh what is the individual the the sales person Stadium um well he just asking me if I have my driver's license he asks me for a credit card right I uh I use it card gets approved and then he says okay wait here I'm gonna uh get the uh van for you and then about 10 minutes later he has it for me okay so the you produced a uh your Ontario driver's license yes okay and uh what type of credit card do you produce visa and what a banking institution does it as a TD so it's a TD Visa is it a uh does it a particular brand of TD Visa does it have a particular okay and um I'm gonna ask do you know the number of your Visa card I don't remember it you know okay um uh but it's in your name yes okay so the fellow behind the counter takes your your identification and the Visa card card presumably he he charges you for the rental yes okay how much was the rental I don't remember to be honest I think it was I remember I had to pay a 400 to deposit okay uh to be honest I wasn't really paying attention to the cost because I knew I would be able to cover it anyways okay all right um did you sign any documents I assigned on a tablet okay all right all right um were you given any type of receipt yes I uh in fact I put it inside a folder which was in the van which I'm assuming has probably been uh confiscated as the band was probably searched right right so where was the receipt in the in the in the van inside a uh some folder oh I'm sorry okay well it was it was next to the uh steering wheel near the coffee cup holders okay all right same place for my phone and while it were okay all right so your you've now uh paid for the van uh you've signed for it you've been given a paper receipt uh the and then what happens uh then I uh as I said before he tells me to wait as he's getting the band and so I wait about 10 minutes okay and then uh he brings the van and then I go into it and then I take it downtown to Toronto and I start uh using it okay so when you're presumably the band gets pulled up in front of the the entrance is that uh yeah he he pulled it up next to the building and he uh made it ready uh to be able to easily exit out okay and so do you do an inspection of the van to make sure that there's no damage you're gonna uh uh no I didn't bother because the van didn't appear to be damaged or anything like that okay uh so uh he gives you the keys yes okay um and uh what do you do at that point I uh drive off okay and what route do you take uh I drove down a Cornerstone oh sorry credit Stone uh until I reached I believe uh Highway seven okay the location where manassian began his attack was not far from the rental the attack itself spanned almost a mile and a half uh and then I went East on Highway seven and then I took the uh ramp to uh young and then I went South on young until I uh reached the uh attack location uh in your Fitch okay so what direction are you traveling on credit Stone South South and then you go West on no East sorry East on Highway seven and then I take that ramp to Young okay and then on young I continue South okay so when do you leave Ryder I wasn't looking at the time when I left but I know I received the van before 1pm although it was the booking was actually scheduled for what okay all right and how long does it take you to get from Rider to Young Street oh and to Young to the beginning of the beginning of the beginning of the attack oh it's in your Young and Finch yeah I would estimate about 20 to 30 minutes 20 to 30 minutes now what are you thinking while you're in the band I'm thinking that this is it this is the day of Retribution okay and uh anything else in your mind just that that's that's the only thing that's my mind it's just burning in my mind burning in your mind yeah okay and uh so let me ask you this because this is really interesting why do you choose Young and Finch I didn't choose Young and Finch particular I was driving down young because I knew it would be a busy area and then as soon as I saw there were uh pedestrians I just decided to uh go for it okay manasian says he was attracted to the pedestrians but that only makes sense on the surface he was specifically bitter toward women who would be around his own age but the majority of his victims were over 40. it would have made more sense for him to Target the area around the college or a popular hangout and so where specifically were you in terms of your specific location where were you when you just decided to go for it I was uh at some traffic lights okay where um much I don't remember the only reason in fact if if I hadn't uh I remember some other I had heard some other officer or mentioned Young and Finch before that's the only reason I really remember it but otherwise I actually wouldn't have remembered yeah wrong in French I just knew that I started seeing a lot of people walking okay uh it might it might just stand am I correct when I when I say that you knew at least you were on Young Street yes and you knew that you were specifically chosen beforehand because that's that's why because I even looked for that Ram from Highway 7 to Young right okay okay so nevertheless you're at you're at a you're at a stoplight you said yes you're right and now are you faced with a red light you're stopped uh yes but as soon as it turned green I uh started going okay and just walk me through this okay step by step so it turns green and what are you thinking I'm thinking that uh this is it I see all these people it's uh time to uh go for it time to go for it and what do you do I uh floor the pedal I speed the van towards them and I allow the van to uh collide with them okay and then what happened uh some people get knocked out of the way some people roll over the top of the bed okay and then what what happens I continue doing that until um in fact actually to be honest the only reason I stopped my attack was because someone's drink got splashed on my windshield and I was worried that I would uh crash the van anyway so I decided okay now I wanted to do more but I've kind of been foiled by a lack of visibility so then that's when I pulled I turned right and I pulled and I saw the cops approaching so I decided to pull over and get out of my van okay how long do you travel from the moment that you you decide this is it the light turns green and you uh Mount the sidewalk is that right yes to the time that you stop how long in terms of the distance would that event about two traffic two or three traffic lights two or three traffic lights okay so you turn right at what street I don't remember which street I wasn't paying attention why do you turn right um because I because there wasn't any convenient place to stop at Young and I and like I said that there was a lack of visibility on my windshield I could hear the cops coming anyway so the the when I turned right there was a convenient place to pull over on the sidewalk okay okay and so you're now so you're you're you you physically stop your vehicle yes you physically stop so you end the assault yes okay um and you end it because you can't see yes and you knew the cops were coming yes okay and so then what happens at that point uh I I see a patrol car pull over and I hear the cops screaming at me to get out so I get out and I uh point my wallet at the cop in it with the intent for it to be confused that the gun so that I could be fatally shot okay okay and was that something you were thinking about yes during the confrontation manasian repeatedly reached into his pocket for a dark object when officer Kim lamb realized it was not a gun he holstered his own weapon and Drew his baton to avoid using deadly force what I'm saying even even before had I uh premediated as an attempted a suicide by cop you wanted to you wanted to be killed by the police yes okay um can I ask why you decided to to equip yourself with a wallet and not something else oh I was worried I was thinking about purchasing a toy gun but I was kind of paranoid that some for whatever reason the Rydal rental company would ask to see my pockets or any bag if I chose to bring that so I decided to go as stealthy as possible so no one suspects anything okay all right and unless you get out of the the band the officer or sorry correct me if I'm wrong because I want to make sure I get this right you get out of the van because the officer orders you out yes okay uh and you want to uh you want to die by uh by by suicide by police so you point your wallet at him yes okay and uh do you say anything to the officer I I actually told him that I had a gun in my pocket which was untrue right uh then I had to I twice I stuck my left hand in my pocket and attempted to do this just to provoke our reaction okay uh that uh he unfortunately he didn't react and then I ended up being mortared to the ground so I knew at that point he's not going to shoot me so uh I've lost so I just so I had no choice but to just get on the ground okay so just walk me through this step by step because I'm a little confused so you you get out of the van so if you turn right you can't see you hear the police you know they're coming you see the police officer approach you stop your vehicle uh you realize this is the the end he orders you out you get out of the van yes now you're planning your plan was to die by suicide by cop so you said you reached into your pocket well actually well originally I I the entire time I had I was holding my wallets with my right hand but then when I saw that that wasn't working I reached into my pocket with my left hand and quickly pulled it out and it Formed my hand into the shape of a gun like this okay um but they hope that he would panic and shoot me that of course didn't happen Okay demanded to be shot several times and directed the police to shoot him in the head and you many times did you do that twice with your left hand all the while you had your wallet walled in with the other hand okay um and so realizing that the officer wasn't going to shoot you what did you do at that point I realized I had no choice but to get on the ground because I was probably going to be uh tackled anyways or tased and if I'm if I'm gonna live I'd rather not encounter physically and painful experience so I decided I have no choice but to admit the feat at that point right okay and so when you say admit defeat what did you do I uh got on the ground okay and in terms of how how did you get on the ground well I turned around I got on my knees and then I got on flat on the ground face down yes okay and then what happened then he put his knee in me on my back okay and then he handcuffed me okay uh and another officers arrived and pinned me down as well okay all right and then from there you were placed in the car and we already talked about that yes okay that's quite an experience there's quite a not the usual everyday experience no no it's not no it's not no it's not did I miss anything I believe that's everything Alex I thank you for talking to me I really do I really do I really appreciate that you've given me some insight and uh um how you feeling right now I'm feeling good okay we've been here a while do you need to borrow the washroom uh well yes but if there's anything urgent I am I'm able to wait okay can I ask you this because I'm really thirsty um what I'll do is I'm going to step out um and then I'll come back and if there's any other questions I have I will uh I will uh I will speak to you about that okay okay I'm just going to sign this here with and it's the 24th Now isn't it okay [Music] sometimes okay tell me what happened from the time we left the time we came back you mean just now yeah uh I went to the uh washroom I urinated in the toilet bowl I uh washed my hands thoroughly at the sink then I took towel I uh use that to close the top uh so we got a paper towel in the garbage and I took two more uh pieces of paper towel used not to open a knob while holding the doors by foot I put the paper towel in the uh garbage and then we walked back yes I wanted to ensure that there would be no uh Germans on my head perfect do we have any conversation while we were outside uh no no um I I think I pointed out where the bathroom was I said it sits here on the right and then you went in and did you speak to anybody else no anybody speak to you no okay um I was thinking uh you mentioned you went to Quebec yes why did you go to Quebec uh I went to a macho ball oh the mountain okay yeah for uh summer hiking oh okay all right when did you go specific I've gone a few times in the past okay and why are maltrable uh because I'd heard it's a good place for uh hiking in the summer is that something you do you like to do as a hobby yes okay uh who are you going uh I don't want you to specify okay uh how long are we there uh just for a weekend okay all right um you were in Buffalo I understand I don't recall ever being a buffalo do you remember we called one to Buffalo no my understanding is you travel to Buffalo and travel to another uh U.S State I have been to Chicago and Boston San Francisco in L.A okay all right okay when did you go down there um San Francisco and L.A were Christmas of 2003 and 2013. Chicago was a winter of sorry well Christmas time of uh 2007. Boston was a me of uh 2012. okay uh what was the reason what was the reason for going to the U.S uh justification did you go to the family yes okay uh can I ask what religion you are uh I'm not of any uh particular religion you you you don't follow any of these Anonymous yes you're atheist oh I see okay can I ask what religion you were raced I wasn't raised in with any religion oh okay uh if we're gonna say your parents aren't religious yes okay uh okay um so you don't have any religious ideology or no uh you know particular religious uh Faith or following of any kind correct okay um you uh did you go to your prom no I didn't you didn't go to your high school problem no okay um have you ever had a girlfriend no okay unsurprisingly menacion has never had a girlfriend and tended to avoid social situations where that would be highlighted can I ask you something this is it's personal but uh given what you've told me yeah I believe it's relevant uh have you ever had uh an intimate relationship with with a woman unfortunately I haven't okay is that something you you would want to do yes okay all right um can you tell me why it is that you haven't had an intimate relationship with a woman I feel it's because I'm too nice okay all right uh have you you made you've made attempts or I should say have you made attempts to have uh an intimate relationship with with a woman uh yes I did ask a girl out once but she rejected me oh okay where was that uh that was in uh 2012 2012. so it was before the October Halloween of 2013. yes okay um uh and was that did that leave you with the I mean how did that leave you I felt crushed at that point okay okay uh I'm talking about the 2012 incident with the the girl yes oh okay um Alec remember when we talked about telling the truth yes and I asked you that you know if you were going to tell me your side of the story which you did and I appreciate that uh has has everything you told me been the truth yes Okay because I'm going to be honest with you there are there's one aspect of your story that doesn't doesn't cooperate with with the information we have okay there's there's one piece to your story that uh is inconsistent with what we know would you care to guess what what piece that is I can't think of the inconsistency uh how you specifically got to the the rider uh truck rental if I was to suggest you that we received information that somebody dropped you off there whatever you're right I don't wish to answer that okay the reason why I say that is because it's you know what you've told me I believe you okay but you know I I asked you to tell me I asked you at the beginning to tell me the truth that if you were going to talk to me all I wanted was to be from the heart which it was and to be the truth which I believe the majority okay um so what I'd like to do is at this particular at this particular juncture if there's a portion I don't want I'm not asking you to reveal anybody or names okay but if there's a portion of your statement that is not true okay I'd like to know because it's important it's about the truth you're very forthright uh upfront about what's happened but it's important that we get the truth okay I I'm not asking for names all right but in terms of how you got to the rider dealership were you telling me the truth or not just I was telling the truth you were telling me the truth as to how you got there yes you're not lying no so in other words the truth is you caught the bus yes the truth is that you did not get dropped off by somebody correct why is it that we would receive information acted alone but Thomas knows he isn't being entirely truthful about his movement I I sorry I can't think of a reason why I'm going to be straight up with you your dad has told us that he dropped you off at a Starbucks coffee shop earlier today or earlier yesterday yes that is what happened why wouldn't you tell me that because I was worried that you would think he was an accomplice okay okay he was not aware of this okay and I believe you I believe you would say that okay I want you to know your dad's not in trouble okay and we're not you know we're not looking at your dad as being in a conference okay you have my word on that okay but what's important Alex is that I get the truth okay we don't believe that your dad is an accomplice okay I'm not gonna lie to you okay um you're not your dad your family is not in any kind of trouble okay but I need the truth okay so let's go back he said you got up in the morning yes okay what time did you get up in the morning uh I believe it was at about seven okay now you told me what happened yes was all about the truth in terms of getting up having breakfast brushing yes and then leaving the house around eight to go for a walk yes and you're out for about an hour two and uh 45 minutes to an hour yes is that the truth yes okay and then you come back yes and then you were playing in video games is that the truth yes all right so from that point what happens I am a given a ride to uh the Starbucks location near Highway 7 and Weston okay and then from that point I'll walk to the rider uh rental location and from there I pick up like that okay so we're not if we go back to the York regional transit system we're not going to see you boarding the bus cracked okay so that was a lie cracked okay so what did you tell your dad why did you know what did you tell your dad that I told him I was meeting up with a friend what's your friend's name Brandon Levine okay okay and what was the purpose for this meeting what did you tell you that the purpose of this meeting to be uh just to be able to um catch up on old times talk with each other and chat okay that's what we know all right well thank you for talking about I want to ask you this okay we're not looking at anybody else uh as being involved in this okay um so in light of all of that is there anything else that you've told me that isn't true no everything else is the truth yes you're you're being upfront and honest with me yes okay okay um while you were planning all of planning the attack starting approximately a month ago when you were in the the planning and delivery deliberation stage right through to getting arrested who did you talk to about this attack forecast okay so what do you mean by that meaning I uh posted two days before the attack that um I hinted that there would be another uh beta Uprising and the and then when there were replies some of the People based on the replies I could tell that they kind of knew what was going to happen okay did you have any uh conversation with anybody else not in real life what does that mean I mean not in person okay how did you over what uh medium did you did you did you communicate just a fortunate outside of the internet manassian did not have much of a social life it is unlikely that he ever had these types of discussions outside of online forums so what do you mean by not in real life or not in person who are you speaking well real life means you're not using the computer right uh so I did not inform anyone in person of these plans okay outside of 4chan and leaving threads or messages on threads who else did you talk to using uh social media or I'm speaking specifically to individuals who specifically did you tell no one no one you mentioned you were playing um Cindy jumper no Studio but before that you were playing uh uh Call of Duty and Halo Halo and you've played uh GDA yeah Grand Theft Auto how did you play these games I mean I know you played them within Xbox uh 360 with an Xbox 360. where's that where's that Xbox 360 I actually I no longer have when I used to have one okay where did you where did you uh when did you get rid of it uh well a few months ago that this tray got jammed so uh that's why we had to get rid of it okay so how did you get rid of them we just uh threw it out through the garbage yes okay so did you ever uh use the online uh uh Xbox Live Xbox Live yes okay and what was your username on Xbox my uh gamer tag was a Xbox light side Xbox light side yes all in word yes uh any capitals the first letter first letter and uh in your conversations with other people online while playing Xbox or while using Xbox uh who did you discuss or talk to about uh conducting this mission I didn't uh discuss it with anyone over Xbox Live who did you discuss specifically uh with about this Mission using any other type of communication other than Fortune yeah no one no one so it's fair to say no one knew that you were planning to to do this attack correct I want to talk to you and this is very important I want to talk to you about uh this uh Edmonton uh uh attack that's going to take place later this year you said it was in what month November 15 2018. uh what more uh what what more information can you tell me about this this impending attack the only information I have is that someone hinted in the as a reply he simply said that this has yeah I think I know what you mean bro at this kind of this has kind of inspired me um I am planning something similar November 15 this year okay this threat will have to be investigated but there is very little information to go on and it is very possible that the person was not serious about having a plan how do you know it was going to be a reply it was a public post it was a public post how do you know it was going to take place in Edmonton because he said Edmonton because he said it was in the post so if I was to go on to Fortune would I be able to see this post uh due to the high frequent high volume the high frequency of posts unfortunately all the threats get pushed out to very uh quickly however it is possible that they get archived on some other website okay and what specifically what thread was this under oh it doesn't have a name because I left that uh fuel blind okay so but what uh what sub folder is it in um if there's no subfolders unfortunately so well I thought you said that there was uh right right radical or oh the category of alt-right alt right oh it fell in it's in the alt-right uh category yes okay so that's where if if it was to be found that's where it would be yes okay one other uh impending attacks do you know of that's the only one I know of that's the only one yes okay um have you uh have you have you had any other discussion with this fellow who was playing this attack in Everton no who is he I don't know it's a it said Anonymous that's a whole point of Fortune right okay is there anything else you can tell me that might help me better understand what's happened here today there isn't anything else I can offer to be honest okay can I ask you to type for a couple seconds sure foreign I really do um I've never met somebody like you before and uh this has been quite an experience for me as much as I think it has been for you um can I ask you something how were you treated here today very well actually very well okay and uh I'm talking about overall with you know for the moment you're arrested right up to now okay [Music] um what's what's going to happen here today and are you I don't know if you're familiar with the process so we're gonna we're unfortunately gonna have to hold you okay because um we we can't release people for certain charges and the ones that you're facing we can't release you which means that you're going to go to court tomorrow or today uh you'll uh you'll be in front of the judge okay there will be a lawyer there uh who will Advocate or will defend you on your on your on your behalf there will be a crown attorney who will uh who's the prosecutor who will advocate for the crown or the for for the for the crowd uh and they will argue in terms of uh your your bail your release okay uh following that court dates will be set in the future um you will eventually get a lawyer make applications apply for a lawyer They will receive your lawyer will receive disclosure from us they'll get a copy of this this video and then with meetings with the lawyer you can discuss what it is you want to do okay um I'm going to ask you this because it's important 10 people die here today um 15 people were seriously injured I think it's important to ask how do you feel about that I feel like I accomplished my mission if you like the accomplish your mission yes okay if the families of those people who were murdered and were injured were in this room right now what would you say to me I honestly don't know what I want to say did you apologize I honestly don't know finish your Grant sure [Music] thank you very much I appreciate that is there any questions you have for me I don't have any questions okay if I need to speak to you again would you be up to that yes okay um I gotta just make sure there's a a room available what I'm going to do is if you don't mind can I give you a hangout here Sean I'm going to get an officer to come in here and he's going to take you back downstairs he'll be the you'll be alone in the room if you need something to eat you just love them let them know he'll get you something to eat use the washroom need to light out have a sleep do whatever you want I'll have to do that all right okay hang tight I'll make sure Alexian was charged with 10 counts of first degree murder and 13 counts of attempted murder and ordered not to contact any of the alleged attempted murder victims he was later charged with three more counts of attempted murder he pleaded not criminally responsible for these charges on June 13 2022 manassian was sentenced to the life in prison with no possibility of parole for 25 years thanks again for tuning in drop a like if you like this video and check out my patreon page if you want to support the channel even more stay safe and I'll see you in the next one