Well, we have a warrant for your arrest. Okay. So, we're going to have to end up arresting you and we're going to take you down to the jail today. Okay. I got some appointments. I think that's supposed to You're not going to make those appointments, unfortunately. I'm sorry. This is 80-year-old Mary Joe Bailey. For the last 40 years, she has been on the run after committing a heinous crime. The killing of Yavon Mankey shook the community she lived in to its core. Now she will try to lie her way out of this one final time. We have at least one eyewitness who saw the suspect. I honest to God don't remember. But little does she know there is no escaping her past. The district attorney's office is ready to file charges against you for homicide. In the quiet early morning hours of December 12th, 1985, 45-year-old Ivonne Mink was getting ready for what should have been just another routine day at work. She lived with her daughter, Julie, in an apartment in the small, peaceful town of St. Croy Falls, Wisconsin. But this morning was destined to be tragically different. Shortly after 6:00 a.m., Ivonne left her apartment to go warm up her car. And this is when everything went wrong. As soon as Ivonne left, Julie heard a whip-like noise coming from where Ivonne's car was parked. Just 10 seconds later, she heard another of those whipping sounds. Alarmed, Julie rushed to look outside from a small bathroom window. And what she saw can only be described as a tragedy. In the stairwell, Ivon Mink was shot dead. And some distance away, an individual was fleeing the scene. approximately 5'9, broad shoulders, wearing a gray dress coat with a paper bag in their right hand. By 6:23 a.m., the Pulk County Sheriff's Office arrived at the scene, but it was far too late. The killer had already vanished without a trace. As for Ivonne, there was no saving her. She had been shot a total of three times with a 22 caliber firearm with examiners suspecting that the last two were fired in an execution style with the killer standing over her. But who could murder Ivonne so brutally? And what did they have against her? After all, they stayed long enough to make sure that they finish the job. The only person of interest was Mary Joe Bailey. According to Julie and the other two daughters, Ivonne was entangled in a complex love triangle with a man named Jack at its center for nearly 8 years. The two had an on-again off-again relationship as Jack was also seeing Mary Joe, a woman he had met at a horse show several years before. The feelings of jealousy and competition only grew stronger between the two women. One of Ivonne's co-workers even stated that Ivonne wanted to punch Mary Joe because of what was going on. But by late 1985, it seemed like Jack had made his choice between the two women. By September of that year, he broke up with Mary Joe and became rather close with Ivonne, leaving the only possible suspect to be Mary Joe. But there was only one problem. Mary Joe had an airtight alibi. According to her, she was on vacation and wasn't anywhere close to Ivonne. Other witnesses even testified that although there was competition between her and Ivonne, Mary Joe was neither the kind of person to be caught up in her emotions, nor was she overwhelmed by feelings of jealousy. For the next 24 years until 2009, investigators searched for evidence linking Mary Joe to the crime, but ultimately the lack of concrete proof caused the case to go cold. It was only 12 years later in 2021 that the investigation was relaunched. And by January 26th, 2023, detectives came knocking at Mary Joe's door for one last time. The following footage has been provided to us by the Pulk County Sheriff's Office, Wisconsin. Hey, Mary Joe. Good morning. Thank you. Thanks. How was your How was your day trip yesterday? Oh, it was fine. Good. Sorry, we are running late. Yeah, it's my fault. Not these guys. They were on time. Okay. I have a seat. I moved the cat. Oh, okay. I the sign. I don't think No, I'm good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. I'm wondering if you can talk to me a little bit about Jack's family and more specifically back in like 85, the dynamics of like I knew his mom and dad, the sisters weren't around. Okay. Uh mom and dad were both alive at that time. And u well he had been out of work for a long time. He he worked at Champion Aircraft and when they left he never found another job. I I think that was some of his mental issues and he stayed on the farm and he thought he was going to inherit the farm is what I kind of thought from what I understand. Okay. And then his mom passed away and no his dad passed away first then his mom because this is over many years but um and then he found out he wasn't getting a whole farm. Okay. And then that's when he when he married this gal, she had money and whatnot and went to uh where the son lives in Montana. You sure? So now you're the guy that's Linda, right? Yeah. The one he's married to. Yeah. Or he passed away, I guess, a couple years ago now. Something like that. Somebody said Okay. Linda is Jack's wife. By the time the investigation was relaunched, Jack had already passed away. But Linda was fortunately still around. And just a month before this interview on December 2nd, 2022, detectives questioned her and hit the motherload. Jack initially met Linda through their mutual interest in horses in 1989, 4 years after Ivonne's murder, but was still bouncing between her and Mary Joe. Over time, Jack and Linda's relationship settled, leaving no room for Mary. And this is when things began to go wrong. Mary Joe was obsessed. Sometime after 1989, she broke into the couple's residence, not to ransack it, but to vandalize any and all pictures of Jack and Linda. Not only that, but early into their relationship, Linda received two threatening phone calls and discovered nails in her vehicle tires. The asalent called her and told her, "If you know what's good for you, leave Jack alone." Despite this level of obsession, Mary Joe pretended to be completely normal to everybody else. So much so that she got married to another man who we will call Witness 20. All the while she was keeping tabs on Linda. Luckily, it didn't take long for Witness 20 to find out what Mary Joe was really like, and the two divorced. So, will Mary Joe keep her troubled history a secret, or will she spill the beans? So in 85, is Jack living by himself at the farm or he's living his parents are there? His parents are there too. Okay. And then the sister is I think Nancy and Vivian, right? Did I get those? And Nancy and Vivian. And then there was one that was I think was adopted. Oh, you're right. Yeah, you're right. She had um a little slow mental or mental or whatever. Anyway, and she lived I think Siren or some place. Okay. Where did Vivian and Nancy live at the time if you remember? I'm not sure. Okay. Locally, do you think? I thought one was maybe in the Twin Cities. Okay. Livian and then Nancy, she was someplace else. I don't know. Michigan. I I I can't tell you for sure. Do you remember, and I always say back then, you know, the time looking for the 85 range. Do you remember having a lot of interactions with the sisters? Were they around much? No. No. Okay. You had met them though before? I had met them. Yes. Okay. Okay. Um that's the interesting thing about the reports is just trying to figure out the family dynamics because Ivonne of course is the one where Yeah. concerned about concerned about, right? She was a cousin or Yeah, I think they were related. Yeah, I think they were related. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, do you remember ever having any conversations with Nancy or or even Jack for that matter or anybody about Ivonne and Jack's relationship and how the cousin thing was an issue talked about that or Jack never talked about that? Okay. Um, anything more on that, Mark? We were just talking on the way up just trying to get the the family structure down a little bit better than what the reports laid out. So, back to Ivonne a little bit and and I don't read any of this, but our job is to go through the reports and to clarify what some of these investigators meant back then because some of them aren't around anymore, right? So, we're reading reports that are 30 some years old. The phone call stuff. Um, so yesterday we talked a little bit about the and there's this phone call between you and Ivon and correct me if I'm wrong in like 1983 where it could have been I have no idea anymore and that was the call where you and Ivon kind of talk about Well yeah we found out what he was doing. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Right. And you talk about it and Yeah. Yeah. And then yesterday you mentioned that there was a phone call with Ivonne or you made to Ivonne um where you're looking for Jack. Yeah, that was uh the night I was supposed to be out there to ride and he wasn't there. Okay. Do you remember if you actually talked to Ivonne or if that was a No, I think I just asked for him. Okay. So, someone did answer the phone. Yeah, I think it would have been her pro. I mean, I assume I don't know if some kids were living with her at that time. She had children, I think. And Yeah. So, I don't know if they were there or not. Okay. To an extent, this is true. Ivonne's son, James, was not interviewed in the 1980s. However, in 2022, he reported that the mink household often received strange calls in the years leading up to the murder, sometimes three to four times a day. The voice on the other side, muffled and distorted, would always ask about where Ivonne and Jack were. This pattern of odd calls lasted until just a day or two before Ivonne's murder. In an initial statement from Julie, she mentioned receiving a strange phone call from a woman on December 10th at approximately 6:50 a.m. This time, the woman on the other side didn't ask about Jack. She asked what times Ivonne left for work. 2 days later, Ivonne was killed when she was leaving for work. Mary Joe was now the only woman in Jack's life, and he was hers for the taking. Ivonne dies in December of 85. I keep using that as a time stamp because that's the easiest thing to remember. Be back. Um after Ivonne dies, um you and Jack continue your business relationship that it's not till next summer when we actually start showing horses again. Okay. Oh, we were still we still belong to some other clubs. Okay. So we ran into you know that but we didn't start any riding till well summer or whenever started working horses again. I don't remember that year. This was 85. I can't remember. I would I had my own horses. I was not working and I don't remember. I honest to God don't remember or he came to some of the shows that I saw, but I just don't think I was working with him with sharing transportation at that time. I just cannot remember for sure which years. You guys weren't romantically involved. No. Okay. We're still friends and whatnot. And um yeah, because I think he used to do some shoeing for me if I remember back there at one time. And then still um I was I keep looking at that horse because I was thinking that was the one I was riding at the time and I was and he came to some of the big shows to see how all of us were doing. You know, he knew a lot of people. And did you continue that business relationship with Jack, but you don't get involved with him romantically? Not romantically, but for years we still stayed friends. Yeah. And I do remember the one time when he got sick, he called me cuz I was working at my daughter's that Oh my god, that would be years after maybe even. And I didn't even recognize his voice on the phone. And he said, "When you when you come back, can you stop over and bring me some crutches?" And I thought, "What in the world?" So I went over and he was really sick. I took him to emergency. And then I uh I didn't hear anything that he was in the hospital for a few days and when I came back then I stopped and he was in the hospital and they said he was tearing out the IV lines. He was tearing out the uh what do you call the other lines? U anyway they said we can't do anything with him. So I said well I can take him back home by else because he was refusing everything. And that's when his his sister Nancy came down then too. Okay. But I was doing all the chores out there with the horses and stuff. And we had some neighbors and some other uh people that I knew, friends of his to get the hay in that year cuz I he was down about 3 months. He had something with his blood. I can't remember what it was, but I know I did all the chores and stuff um until he got feeling better. And then as he got feeling better, he got army and I left. Yeah. Right. Right. It's his personality. Let me quickly translate killer grandma for you from it wasn't his personality to I wanted to manipulate him. This is because Linda, Jack's wife, actually asked him what his relationship was with Mary Joe and why he kept going back to her after what happened. In response, Jack said that he felt tainted when Ivonne's murder took place and thought no one would want him anymore besides Mary Joe. And Mary Joe took full advantage of these feelings as she continued to try to pursue him because for her having no competition anymore was a dream come true. Then Jack met Linda and Mary Joe's plans went up in flames. Only this time she wouldn't resort to murder and try to move on. Aside from the girl in Minnesota that we talked about, anybody else that Jack was dating if you know leading up to Linda. I know at some point Linda comes in, right? Yeah. I don't even remember then because I was Yeah, because I met uh Dave, the guy I married, my second husband, and I'd been dating him. That [Music] was 89, 88 or 89 when I met him. Okay. I I can't remember exactly. I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. The the girl you saw that time, tall, slender, uh dark hair, was that Linda Nissen or are we talking somebody else? No, that was somebody else because Linda didn't live that far away and this girl I know was in Minnesota because I remember um yeah, that's all I can remember about that. And then his dad made the comment he had to pull him home cuz his car or truck quit or something when he was over there. I had to kind of laugh. Before listening to any more of Mary Joe's ramblings, it is very important to understand a particular statement she made in her first interview in 1985. Initially, Mary Joe admitted that she owned a .22 pistol with a 38 frame. But in late fall of 1985, she gave the pistol to a friend, Jim, because she wanted to sell it off. Unsurprisingly, Jim wasn't just a friend, but also one of Mary Joe's past lovers. However, the two still saw each other socially. Besides the 22 pistol, Mary also had a Remington 22 rifle, which she showed officers at the time. So owning not one but two weapons with the same caliber that Ivonne was killed with isn't exactly a good look. But how will Mary Joe weasel her way out of this one? So Jim Moore, remember yesterday when I came in, I I said we're investigating a tip with Jim Moore. So I'm going to go into that a little bit. Okay. Um, so back reading the police reports, there is a lot of talk about a a gun that Oh, yeah. Because I was trying to sell mine. What did I have at the time now? That was at my It's the 22 pistol I've got yet. Mhm. And Jim was going to try and sell it for me. He knew people. And so, but he gave me his his 22 rifle in case I needed it and cuz I had rats coming across my uh down the road there was a farm and then he had a garbage dump which was right on my fence line and when it got cold the rats started coming so I was shooting the rats before they got in my barn. Oh, okay. All right. So, he had it and that was the rifle. I had the rifle at that time then he had my gun pistol. Okay. And you were shooting the rifle at the rats. Well, I never I don't think I don't know that I ever had to use it. He just I because some had gotten in the barn one time too and a skunkage had to chase out, but I don't think I ever used it. Oh, okay. I mean, it was there if I needed it. I see. But I didn't use it. I never had a reason to use it. Okay. So, the 22 pistol that's referenced in the reports. Yeah. Jim had it. Jim had that. Yeah. And that was originally yours that you gave to Jim. Am I getting that right? Okay. Because I have it back. I got you. So that's the gun that eventually came back to you. Did you give it back to you then? Or uh my sister-in-law went picked up because they took all my brother's guns, rifles and all. I mean, he did hunting and whatnot. They took all his guns. I think they took anything Jim had. I don't know what else or who else actually. But I know I remember my brother's. What was your brother's name again? Okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay, I remember that. Yeah. The the 22 gun that you have now and the one that we're talking about is what do you remember what kind of kind of it is? It's a Ruger. Smith and Smith and Wesson. Smith and Wesson. Just because there's a lot of guns talked about in the report, so I'm just trying to keep it all straight. Yeah. And that's a revolver pistol revolver. Yeah. It's on a I think it's on a bigger frame. It looks bigger than what it is supposed to. That makes sense. Okay. And I only carried it well when I was traveling I had that big living quarters horse trailer. It was it was a three horse was 14,000 lb. That's the one I was traveling with back and forth. And when I had to sleep at night, I had that on my pillow cuz I had to sleep in my camper. But I mean by myself I could put my horse in a stall, but I had that there just in case. I see. Okay. So the you gave it to Jim. Jim gives you the rifle. Was there some talk about Jim was gonna sell the trying to sell the pistol? I said I said if you could sell it. I said I thought I'd rather have a rifle, you know, just a 22 rifle. Mhm. And it would be easier now. I just don't I'm not big on guns anyway. But uh in my divorce sets I wound up with Oh, I see. Okay. Cuz I actually the the other 22 rifle we had was supposed to be mine, but he got it. So that's okay. I'll take the other. Yeah. Okay. All right. So, the pistol is the one you wound up with in the divorce. That's what I Okay. Yeah. Cuz it's it's old. It's I don't know how long my husband had I don't even remember. He got it long long time ago. Right. All right. And the rifle. Did law enforcement seize that or did I get back to Jim's if you know? Yeah. Um Yeah, they got it all straightened out. Oh, okay. Yeah, they got Yeah, they got it all straightened out. Everybody got the ones back. I got my pistol back. He got his rifle back. My brother his back. Right. Do you remember what your conversations were with Jim back then when all this talk about guns being submitted to the police department and Yeah. We were kind of wondering why they were taking every size and shape they could get a hold of. Okay. So, you did talk to Jim about some of that stuff. Well, yeah. Yeah. I would think so, right? We all talked about it, my brother. And it's like, what in the world? You know, they're taking every thing we got any gun of any size and shape. Yeah. Because I think Jim had more guns taken from him or he submitted. I shouldn't say taken. Yeah, he submitted them to my brother. Yeah, because my brother had a lot of guns. Did that ever make Jim mad? Did he ever talk about or he No, I figured, you know, what's the purpose? I mean, we know it's none of these. Mhm. Mhm. So, why not? I mean, why wouldn't you? Yeah. Would be the question. Yeah. Right. Okay. How about any of the other like um Linda Larson's name comes up a lot in the reports. Have you Yeah, she was my friend. No, I haven't talked to her in a long time. Okay. Um, she kind of got out of the horses herself because that was our plan because we showed together for 40 years, I think it was. Okay. And then she kind of went into the paints and then I got into the Morgans. So, we were still friends, but we didn't show together anymore because we were going different ways. Mhm. Tell me about Linda. Was she was she someone that you would always consider to be kind of honorable and truthful or was she Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. The Linda that detectives refer to here is Linda, Mary Joe's friend, not to be confused with the other Linda, Jack's wife. When this Linda was initially interviewed in the8s, she was on Mary Joe's side, stating that she could never do something like this. It was only 37 years later in December 2022 that she revealed something so important that this entire reinvestigation was turned upside down. and something that detectives are about to confront Mary Joe with. So Jimmore, there is a tip that was brought forward that I don't even know what timeline. I'll say shortly after Ivonne was killed, whatever that means. Yeah. Right. That you brought some clothes to Jim Moore's house and either you burned the clothes at Jim Mo's house or Jim or burned them for you. I think the tip is not necessarily that specific, but the tip is from someone who we've interviewed and we we've vetted pretty thoroughly. Um, so there's a degree of confidence behind the tip, right? Yeah. Yeah. I do not remember anything, but Okay. Did you ever What would be the reason for someone to come forward to law enforcement and say that all these years later? I have no idea. Okay. Did you at any point go to Jim Ward's house and burn any clothes? No, I never burned anybody. I mean, I was out there on and off, but I remember anything like that. Did you have Jim Did you ask Jim to burn any clothes for you? Not that I I not that I ever remember. I don't know that it would have unless there were some old legs or something like that that something to get rid of, but I can't think of anything. Full disclosure, we've talked to Jim and Jim lives in California. Oh. Um, so we've talked to Jim and we've we have an interview with Jim and we we've confronted him on the same thing. And this is where I I'm not going to tell you what some of the stuff I can tell you. Oh, yeah. But I will tell you straight forward that we've talked to Jim. Yeah. Okay. About this very tip. Um, so there's law enforcement has reason to believe that there is some truth to what was told to us. And our goal here at the end of the day, Mary, can I claim Mary or Mary Joe? Do you prefer? I usually go by Mary Joe. Mary Joe. Okay. So, our goal here at the end of the day is this. We want closure. That's what we want, right? The Minky family wants closure. We've talked to the Minky family. The district attorney wants closure. Everybody wants closure. 37 years, right? That's a lot of time. Okay. And I've even had discussions with our DA's office where our DA's office would be like, you know what, if we can get some closure, we have a lot of leeway in terms of how we resolve whatever we resolve. Okay? And we've had those conversations at the office, right? Nobody's expecting anybody in this case to say, "Person A, you're responsible. You're going to prison for the rest of your life." That hasn't been brought up, nor would it be brought up. But we do have a job to try to get that closure. Okay. So, there is no secret that we're here to talk to you and confront you on some of the things that have come up. Sure. Because that's our job. Okay. So, we have this we have this tip that came in that's been thoroughly vetted. And like I told you, there is some reason to believe from the law enforcement side. There's some confidence behind this tip that something happened at Jim's Jim's house, right? So, we wanted to ask you about it because that's how we roll. Okay, this other Linda admitted that not only did Mary Joe give Jim the 22 to sell, but also clothes to burn right after Ivonne's murder. But maybe all of this can be chocked down to coincidence and Mary Joe was doing the wrong things at the wrong time. That is until one finds out that Mary Joe left behind a crucial piece of evidence at the crime scene. In addition to over the years, because we're now in 2023 and we're no longer in 1985, technology has advanced. I mean, every anybody who watches Dline knows that Oh, yeah. Yeah. DNA and fingerprint and and touch and trace evidence and fiber evidence is is different now than what it was. Oh, yeah. Right. Genealogy, all that stuff. When we took over the case, we Mark and I focused on that probably more than anything because that's just the new technology. There there's some forensic technology that has also aided our case. Okay. And it suggests with a reasonable degree of certainty that the bootprints in the snow that were found that morning, remember we talked about the Articat boots. Yep. You remember the Articat boots? I had many pairs of boots. I But the boots that you turned over, do you remember turning those boots over to law enforcement? I don't remember specifically. No. Okay. All right. Because I had probably three or four pairs of boots. Okay. So, those boots were submitted to the crime lab and and now with technology being what it is, there's a reasonable degree of certainty that those boots match the boots left in size print or something like that. Yeah. When Ivonne was killed, there was a boot print in the snow to the west of Ivonne's body. More important than the print itself was the word Arctic etched into the snow. In her very first interview with cops, Mary Joe showed detectives a pair of size 5 Arctic Cat snowmobile boots. In 1986, when the forensics were run on the boots, the examiner strongly believed that the shoe print and Mary Joe's boots were consistent in basic size and tread surface design. However, there were no precise characteristics that could once and for all prove that the footprint came directly from Mary Joe. So, while this was the only piece of evidence detectives had in the 80s, the lack of better forensic technology meant the investigation slowed down for 36 years until 2021. So obviously from an investigator standpoint that leads us to ask you if you were at if you were at the crime scene what's the other logical explanation as to why your bootprint is in the snow next to the body. Maybe there is another explanation. I was going to say have been somebody that had another boot similar to that size. I mean whatever. I don't remember what the prints are or anything. I mean I don't know what they are what they look like. So what they did is they took your boots and then they matched it to a cast, a sofa cast of the print. So they not only look at the size, but they look at the wear pattern, the tread pattern. I mean, a lot of individual characteristics about shoes or boots. Like if I if I take my shoes off, you know, my the bottom of my shoe is going to tell a lot of things. It's going to tell wear pattern. It's going to tell most likely at least a general manufacturing date, you know, because shoes change, right? the manufacturer changes the brand over years. Um so then through that information the lab is able to make an opinion and then we go to Articat and Articat says oh yeah that boot that specific boot is this model and during this time frame they only sold these amount to the general population and this specific size is the chances are you know X amount that this specific boot was sold in this region. You know what I mean? like you start to do kind of the the statistical analysis, the probability that this boot is the same boot that left the print is pretty freaking high. What is it? Right there. Right there. Right there. Right by the body. And then there was another print that was found down the alleyway and the same location that we have at least one eyewitness who saw the suspect. Oh. that has a very very consistent physical description with you. Well, I know they took my long gray coat. Yeah. And they I seem to think that's what that person had on. Right. So, right now we're operating on the very strong belief that that your your boots the boots that were found in your house are the same boots that were found next to the body. So, I'm saying I guess how did that happen? They're not. Okay. Would there be any other explanation as to how that would happen? I don't know. Um, it could be somebody else had booths like them. I don't I don't know. They weren't mine. I mean, I was not there. Those friends and I don't, like I say, I I don't remember. And they took my lingray coat. So, I assume that's what they were looking for. Somebody with a lingray coat. and they never gave it back to me. So I I don't know. Okay. That's what they took for a coat. That's the coach I have. Okay. Well, we're there's some other DNA evidence that is out there that we're we're probably going to keep pretty tight. Oh, just because that's our case, right? Um, so Mark and I came with the goal of talking to you and and from an adult to an adult addressing some of these concerns. Okay. One of the best ways that we go about our investigation because you're this isn't the first case we work we work other cases. Um, one of the best things we do to try to eliminate or support whether or not someone was involved or they weren't involved is we asked them to take a polygraph. Is that something that you would be open to? I was told before never to do that. Okay. And that's why I didn't before either. Okay. How about now? Is there any do you have any thoughts on that? We have an FBI guy who that's literally all he does. He travels everywhere. to do a polygraph. She's actually in town. I don't feel like I say because I was told before not to. Okay. And by the attorney I had at that time. Okay. All right. So I you understand why we're asking when it comes to eliminating or supporting or excluding people. But the polygraph isn't always accurate. That's the thing. I'm not a polygraph examiner. So that's what I've been Yeah. So, and I've heard of instances and that's where it makes me leerary. Sure. I'm not a polygraph examiner so I can't really say much about that. I don't know what the statistics are. I can just tell you in my experience, it's been a really good tool that law enforcement uses to steer in different directions. Right. Like I used to years ago, but like I said, then after and my attorney at that time telling me it's not a good idea. Yeah, you know, usually when someone passes a poly, the way that helps us is we can just eliminate somebody and move on to something else so that we're not chasing our tail. I understand that. I understand that polygraph tests are usually not admissible in court in some states because of their questionable reliability. This is because these measure a person's physiological responses, which could vary for many reasons other than lying. for example, nervousness or blood pressure. In some states, however, they may be allowed entirely or under certain proceedings. Regardless, this detective will still try his absolute best to convince Mary Joe to take one. Polygraphs, the actual exam itself is not admissible in court. Can't use it in court. Yeah, that's right. So, obviously, I'm coming at it from one side, right? I'm coming at it from a biased angle, but there's kind of really nothing to lose by taking it, right? It it it's not admissible in court no matter what. The the benefit is for for someone who passes a polygraph, then that examiner comes to the investigator or investigators and says, "Yeah, she was being truthful." People can pass them. So they, you know, I I mean that's I've heard that way too that they can pass them. So that doesn't eliminate you either. It doesn't. Um but there's a there's a there's a level of confidence that goes along with the polygraphs that are are currently being run in 2023 with the technology and also the examiner. I just know the examiner that I work with, the examiner that I work with is freaking awesome. Um, so I put a lot of confidence in, but it's just one of the tools that we use. So if you're not comfortable with it, that's fine. That's totally your choice. Obviously, there's no you have to do it or you don't have to do it, but it's just one of our tools. So I'm going to operate because we have a guy that's ready if you if you're willing to do it. No, I I don't feel comfortable with it. And like I said, being my attorney said I shouldn't. Okay. Before the one attorney. Okay. One of the other things we wanted to do would be would you submit to uh giving us your DNA because when we look back at the case file in 85 DNA technology wasn't what it is now. Um although there's some different things that are in motion that I can't elaborate on but we don't have your DNA in a in a sense where someone has collected a buckle swab from you which is what we would ask to do today. Um, so that would be another part of our investigative process. Would you submit to us collecting? I'd have to talk to an attorney first before I because I don't know enough about this stuff. I would have to actually talk to an attorney. Okay. I think Okay. What What is it that concerns you about that? I don't know. It's just I don't feel comfortable. Okay. Um, I don't know how to explain explain that because you can understand from my standpoint and certainly no disrespect, but I mean I've been doing this for 17 years and I've handled a lot of uh cases. Well, they got DNA after out of all the stuff that they took from me. I can't confirm or deny that they haven't. Yeah, because there would be DNA all over that. some there we have certain ways that we go about our job, right? And certain requests that are sometimes made by crime labs and and such. Um where we that's just a part of our process to be through. So Oh, yeah. You certainly would be the first person that I've ever asked for a DNA sample and you won't be the last. You know, DNA is just kind of that's just kind of 2023 law enforcement these days, right? Um my my discussion with most people is like well if you didn't have anything to do with it you weren't there then that would be a a way for you to exclude yourself as opposed to include yourself right just like the polygraph. So the benefit for you of course okay then my thing was the my DNA is on those boots you got it there. I can't I can't get into the science. But I mean, you've already got it. To me, you've already got it. I can't get into the science part of it, but but remember when I tell you that I'm not going to lie to you. Oh, no. I know. I know. But I mean, that's what I'm thinking. You've got it already. Those are my boots. And if they're proved that they're there, well, your your understanding of DNA is probably based on Dline NBC, and it's it's it's different than it's different in real life than it is on. on all your clothes and everything. Can't get into that. Yeah, trust me. DNA is just different than probably what the average person believes is truth, right? There's some fact and fiction that comes along with DNA. So, there's a reason why we're asking and and there's a reason why I would ask anybody in your shoes that may or may not be a person of interest. Let's be honest, you're a person of interest, right? Yeah. Right. Anybody who had any type of relationship andor close connection andor connection of three layers of possibilities to Ivonne at the time, which there really aren't a lot of people when you break it all down. Um, you're a person of interest just like other people were on that same list, right? So, we're just doing our due diligence to either include or exclude those individuals. And because of the presence of DNA uh leads, investigative leads that we're pursuing, um obtaining your DNA sample would be beneficial to the case, right? Either to include or exclude. Despite being 80 years old, Mary Joe isn't as dumb as she looks because even though she has been pushed into a corner, she knows exactly what to do to turn the tables on these detectives. I say I want to talk to an attorney. I feel safe with with whatever they say. Um well because we weren't sure what you're going to say yes or no on that. I mean I we just don't know. Um we do have a warrant that Steve has and he's and that's what the design to do is get a warrant in for your DA because we weren't sure if he would say yes or no. We just have to have that in our back pocket, right? because I don't want to fly back out to Arizona. So, we do have a warrant to get your DNA. Um, I'll let Steve explain the process. It's fairly pretty easygoing process. Yeah, it's not like anything like this hospital or anything like that, but just so you know, because I'm a straight shooter. I told you I'd be a straight shooter. Um, we do have that and we'll have to at some point that Okay. Yeah. Like I said, I will have to get an attorney then to talk to them about it. Okay. About the DNA? Well, I imagine Yes. Imagine I should to be on the safe side for myself. Are you okay to continue to have a conversation or you just want to consult with the attorney about? I have to consult them about it and see what they say. Okay. So, can I continue to talk to you about my interview or do you want to consult with an attorney before you continue? I don't Is there much left? Yeah, I have a couple things left, but I don't but I don't want to misunderstand what you're saying either. So, yeah. I just, like I say, I don't know enough about it either. I want to be sure that it's okay or that they say it's okay or not or what or I'm not. How about this? Just to make sure that I understand what you're telling me because I am not into violating people's rights. That's not what I do. I want to continue to talk to you about this case. Are you okay continuing to talk to me without an attorney present or do you wish to consult with one? I don't know if this is the point where I need to do that. I can't give you any legal advice. So, I just kind of need a yes or no because for your benefit, I don't want to violate anything. I don't want to be misconstrued as someone who is dirty or anything like that. So, I'm going to need you to kind of give me some direction on that. Um, I have no problem continuing to talk to you. Let's just finish continue talking, see what you've got there. Okay. And we can do that. Okay. So, you're okay talking without an attorney at this point? Yeah. at this point I go just you understand any point you can say time out right okay all right so we talked about the DNA um and really from a question standpoint I don't have a whole lot more I just kind of want to give you my my sense of things if you're willing to listen okay and unless Mark do you have any questions I I think we're covering just about everything that we talked about okay so keeping in mind that I I try to be a straight shooter as best I can and also keeping in mind that I'm just doing a job and none of this I'm never and I don't go about my job trying to be disrespectful ever just that's what I so please keep that in mind okay with what I'm about to say okay there's a lot going on in this case and we've uncovered a lot in this case okay 37 years is a long time and on one hand that hinders a case when you take it over because of the timeline. People's memories fade. People die. But on the other hand, technology gets better, okay, than it was back in ' 85. And some people actually come forward and say, you know what, I didn't tell you this back then because I was scared, because I knew the people involved. Whatever. I mean, insert whatever excuse the reason why they didn't they didn't tell us back then. Well, now they've come forward with some information, but they didn't come with that. Now, all of those things that are going on, remember I've talked to Jim Moore or we talked to Jimmore, right? Um, statements that have come forward that we've since learned since we opened up this case, the DNA technology, all of that stuff. The district attorney's office is ready to file charges against you for homicide. Showing so much attitude while being a suspected murderer is a testament to how emotionally stone cold Mary Joe really is. Not once in this entire interview did she deny accusations of homicide, let alone show any remorse or guilt towards the victims in this situation. But that won't stop the detective from making one last attempt to squeeze out the truth from her, hoping to solve this case after 38 years. Remember what I said earlier. I have talked to the Minky family and I have talked to the DA. We absolutely do not have any desire to slam our fist on the table and say we want her to go to prison for the rest of her life. As a matter of fact, prison for all I know is isn't even on the table. I don't know. That's not my deal. I'm not an attorney. I'm an investigator. I can just tell you what the conversations are. Our number one goal is that we want closure. That's it. 37 years of living with this. Not only the family, but you and everybody involved. I can't imagine the gravity that you and others have on your shoulders all of this time. It It's got to be insane. And I know that because I've handled other cases similar to this. The end of the day, closure is closure. So, our proposal to the DA's office is to kind of almost give you a couple options. And I want you to think about it. You don't have to answer. Just giving it to you. Okay. Option number one is get a hold of an attorney. Talk to the attorney. Have you your attorney contact RDA and then some back channel stuff happens, whatever attorney, too. and the case goes the way the case goes and that could be some sort of global resolution on probation. I don't know. That's not my deal. I'm not a lawyer. My my point is, you know, if this was a different scenario and someone was being charged with homicide, the Marshall Service would be coming. People would be put in in a van, brought to a jail, waiting extradition, going from jail to jail to jail until you get back to Wisconsin. probably given high bond and you never know, you might never see the light again, right? This isn't one of those scenarios. We're not proposing any of that. Okay? We're proposing resolution and we're proposing closure. That's what we're proposing. Now, with that being said, if option A doesn't work and if option A doesn't happen for whatever reason, and the only option we have left is option B, which is what I just described, that might happen too. But I want you to know that that's not our goal. Our goal is option A. Our goal is to get this resolved as quietly and as maybe as quietly as possible. I'll just stick with quietly. Okay. So that closure at the end of the day occurs for everybody involved. You've lived a great life. Nobody is denying that. You you talked about your grandkids. I've done enough research to know that you're not public enemy number one. It's not like you're out there causing any problems. Okay, that that goes a long way, right? That goes a long way. People made a mistake at one point in their life. That's a mistake. Can't go back on it. Wish we could. It is what it is. But there's a big difference between someone who makes one mistake in life and someone who makes a mistake and then the next week they make another and the next week they make another and then they continue down that road. Well, that's not you. Or 37 years later, you you have a home in Arizona. You have another home in Wisconsin. Sounds like you have a great family network. You're certainly not in that publicity for one. Yeah. Cool. You know what I'm saying? So, that's my spiel. Our spiel is that's what we're looking for. And and I can't elaborate more on the evidence only to tell you face to face, eye to eye, we have more evidence than what we had in 1985 and to the point where the district attorney's office is ready to charge. Okay? And that's a pretty high burden, you know, so we want to find a way to get this resolved. Okay? All right. Um certainly you can elaborate if you want or Tell me what you're thinking. I'm I still think I need to talk some legal advice. I I don't know. Sure. I don't feel confident either way. Yeah. Until I know. I just really need to know. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that is definitely you're right. Mark, I don't know if you know Mark much, but Mark is a former DA and defense attorney. That's kind of what I bring to the table in this partnership. Yeah. That's why we brought why one of the many reasons why we brought Mark involved other than he's he's handsome and he's intelligent. Um but Mark brings the legal aspect of it, right? And and he knows way more about what I just talked to you about. Oh yeah, I'm sure he does. So Mark, if you want if I didn't effectively Yeah. Let let me let me just ask you this, Mary Joe. Now, we don't know for sure what the DA is going to do, but we do know that that that he's close and he's made some representations to us that that he's ready to go on this thing. Now, when a DA files a criminal complaint, there are are two ways that DA can go. Uh he can file a complaint on a warrant, which means somebody gets arrested, they're brought to the courthouse. Uh or you can file it on a summon, which is basically here's the criminal complaint and here's when you need to be in court to answer to it. Assuming that the DA does charge you, uh we'd like to be able to advise him on which way to go. If he does charge you, are you willing to come back to Wisconsin and appear in court on the charges or does the DA need to file a warrant? Uh, yeah. I've got so many doctor appointments that um I because what do you have to come back for a certain amount of time or or basically it's it's coming back for a first hearing bond gets set. We have some I need my attorney with me at that point. Are you saying that or it's, you know, again, I'm not the I'm not the guy who can give you advice on that because I'm having I was wondering because I got I have an important one I got to go to because I have some internal bleeding. Yeah. Generally, uh it's best that people are represented by council sooner rather than later. Yeah, because that's I was going to say I've got this internal bleeding going on right now. Um I need to get this next appointment next week and find out what's going on. For the next several minutes, detectives would wrap up their conversation with Mary Joe. As in her words, she had an appointment to get to. What she doesn't know is that she just booked another appointment, one with the cops as they come knocking 10 months later in November 2023 to put away this killer grandma for good. All right, Joe. Yeah. Hey, this is Fax. Do you remember me? What? Oh, do you mind if I talk to you for a minute? Um, I got a phone call or u I'll call you back. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Bye. Bye. Yeah. What did you want? I just needed to to you step out here for a second. Yeah. I've got my pajamas on. Hey, Joe. Do you remember me? I'm Andrew from Wiscon. We were here last year. Don't know if I do or not. Okay, that's okay. I'm not very rememberable, so that's okay. Well, we have a warrant for your arrest. Okay. So, we're going to have to end up arresting you and we're going to take you down to the jail today. Okay. I got some appointments. I I suppose I You're not going to make those appointments, unfortunately. I'm sorry. Um I got to call my daughter then and let her know. She's right down the street. We can make that arrangements for you. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. But what we're going to have to make that call so we can't have you we have we have a search warrant for your house and this is included in the search war. So we're going to secure this as well. Okay. That's my thought. Yeah, that's my right. So this this detective right here, she's going to place your handcuffs and she's going to search you. Okay. So you are under arrest. If you can just step down. Thank you, ma'am. Can I sit on something higher? My back. Well, let her do what she needs to do first. I'm I'm going to cuff you in front. Okay. For the next 7 months, Mary Joe Bailey went on to face trial. By July 2024, she was sentenced to life in prison for fatally shooting Ivon Mink, bringing this case to a close after a long, long 39 years. She will only become eligible for parole after serving 19 years, by which time Mary Joe will be 100 years old.