I didn't want this to happen. >> Who Who the hell wants this to happen? I know. I'm talking to a pastor who can't tell me the truth. >> Meet the world's most vile pastor, Santon Ghosts. After 10 years of stalking his ex-wife and her family, Sai would try and kill them only to realize one of them survived. >> Do you remember going back and pointing the gun right in her face? Cuz she sure does. You know she's not dead. >> Now, as he acts like a manchild, >> I'm a grown man. I thought I was going to pee my pants. Sai is completely unaware that he has to pay for the crime of stealing an innocent child's parents. >> My mom's ex-husband, he like literally stuck us and he's at a house right now. My dad, guys, I'm sorry. I'm really scared. >> We also have video from the of the house. So the video says it, the video shows it, and you did it. >> On June 28th, 2017, Amanda Harris was set to have a perfect day with her family. She and her husband of 6 years, Wayne Harris, were celebrating the birthday of their adopted daughter in League City, Texas. But when Amanda arrived home from taking her daughter on a shopping spree, she discovered utter chaos in her driveway. For nearly 10 years, her ex-husband, Sai Goi, had been stalking her and her daughter, and finally, it had reached a head. Sai and her husband, Wayne, were in the midst of an altercation. Having talked to the police dozens, maybe hundreds of times, about Sai's stalking. Both she and Wayne initiated a citizen's arrest, something they had been told to do if Sai entered their property again so they could press more severe charges. But things didn't go as planned. >> My name is Amanda Harris. I've been down there many times to tell you guys what's going on. He's been told by the police to stay away multiple, many hundreds of times. >> Do you have a weapon right now? >> My husband and I both have a weapon. >> Okay. I'm going to need you to put that weapon up, ma'am. >> Okay. >> Okay. You and your husband both. >> Wayne, he wants you to put your weapon down. >> Does this other male have a weapon? >> I have no idea. >> Sigh did in fact have a weapon. Now, both Amanda and Wayne had every right to hold Sai at gunpoint due to Texas's castle laws. But instead of allowing them to hold down the fort, the 911 operator tried to deescalate. Unfortunately, things only escalated. >> Over right now, please. >> What's going on? >> My mom's husband. He like literally shocked us and he's out of house right now. My parents are yelling at him right now. It's done. I'm sorry. I'm really scared. >> For me, I'm getting my dad. Sai shot Wayne multiple times, then shot Amanda and fled across the border. By the time police in Los Cusus's, New Mexico, arrest him, Wayne has passed away, but Amanda is alive, and she has a lot to tell police about the interaction. The following footage was provided to us by the Galveastston County Sheriff's Office. So, uh, Wednesday is was actually, uh, Kelsey's birthday. Please, my daughter. My daughter, my spiritual daughter. >> Take a minute. Take a minute, pastor. Take a minute. Take a second. Okay, I understand this is very emotional and you know what? I am I am happy and I am glad that I am seeing these emotions from you. Okay. >> Well, that makes one of us because despite the ridiculous tears, I know that Sai has absolutely not learned a single lesson. And soon you'll see just how manipulative he really is. We got her when uh she was about 6 months old. >> Who was we? >> Amanda and I when we were married. >> Okay. >> And uh her mom is Amber and uh she was and so we were in Iowa and we got her and I still remember she'd come from Amber Amber used to take that house in Michigan. And so like I remember holding her 6 months old and I was like, "God, this is such a precious child. She should let me do this. And uh we had her and uh you know I feel like I I we didn't neither of us knew knew Christ back then very well. I mean, we watched Pastor Joel Ostein on TV quite a bit and uh you know, things were good and then I had been in uh I had wanted to go to med school and I was doing a podiatry school in Iowa and uh you know that wasn't working out academically and uh Amanda was frustrated. We had sold the house. she came down to Houston and um I still stayed up in Iowa because I wanted to switch to like the NBA program at Iowa State and I felt like it would be good for her to do something similar as well and undergrad business fashion and um that way we'd have loan money and things like that to raise Kelsey. We were trying to find jobs but it was not a good time in the economy. Um >> let's break things down here for a second. Amanda and Sai fostered Amanda's niece, Kelsey, starting when she was just 6 months old due to her birthother's struggle with the Walter White kind of drugs. Amanda adored Kelsey from the moment she came into their lives. And though Sai is sobbing over Kelsey's alleged mistreatment from her birthother, he ought to look in a mirror. Because despite what you're about to hear him say, Amanda didn't leave him over financial issues, a dog, or an argument. She left him because she caught him violently shaking Kelsey, who was less than a year old, for crying too loud. >> And so it was always like living in fear because we always like were thinking like Kelsey's going to get taken away. And um you know then I started having like like migraines and vomiting like for like 6 months straight after that. And uh you know like I felt like Amanda was not um not cooperating. Like she um like I told her before I came down from Iowa that you know like we have to protect our student loans. Like this is like the only way that we can protect Kelsey. >> When you say protect student loan you mean pay them? >> No. like keep them and keep going to school cuz we were both enrolled in program. It was like huge clearly. And then I saw that she wasn't like I guess she was just like shutting down from stress cuz my dad had died and then this Kelsey thing happened and her grandma died and her mom got divorced and uh like a third time and uh you know it was like massive pressure and um one day there was like just a blow up where you know like she just um it was stupid reason but like you know it was like a like I had found a dog and um like I wanted like us to have that dog you know because uh like my other dog got along like really nicely with that dog and it was real cute. Like his only dog I see would actually pick up Kelsey's uh like Bip uh with his the you know Paci and uh >> you know run around the house with the dog and um >> you know like one day like Amanda and her mom just decided to give the dog away without asking and so I like blew a gasket and it was like stress and um >> so let's fast forward a little bit. Let's fast forward. Yeah, >> I know this is very important to you. Very important to me. >> Y'all ended up getting full fulltime custody of her. Correct. She was awarded to Kelsey was to y'all, correct? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Both of y'all are >> initially initially to me like I guess she both like it was like a temporary custody and then like after that blow up like we separated and I was like had to clear my head and then like on Mother's Day 2008 like I was uh I think it was 200 that it was either Mother's Day 2007 or 8. I was like at my mom's I was back at my mom's house trying to like salvage what had happened and uh like my friend Dr. Miller uh had called from Iowa and he was like look um you need to sit down for what I'm about to tell you. um you know so he sat me down and he said that Amanda had reached out to him like romantically you know and I prayed and like vomited all day Mother's Day and I was like I didn't want to divorce her but I was like that is like you know that is like a biblical grounds for divorce you know to go after somebody else >> and so I went off to Iowa was brokenhearted I still didn't want to divorce her um I still didn't want to leave Kelsey you know I left them with like thousands of dollars And then about 30 days later I was in Iowa. Um you know and I was like look you know if you um if you just uh you know leave like uh the friends leave these kind of friends that are encouraging you to do these things like you know with other guys or party and this and that you know just come back to Iowa like you know we'll be good. But then like she had found like one of her friends had found uh another friend was like super promiscuous like who's doing like stuff named Stephanie like she had found her a job at rooms to go and supposedly she was supposed to make like 90,000 a year. So I was like okay well maybe God maybe God wants us to be a part and she can make a lot of money and I can finish my school. >> Personally I think God would be more concerned about him shaking an innocent child than the couple making lots of money. But I digress. Sai is embarrassingly desperate to paint Amanda as an adulterer who was partying and stealing money from him. But the reality is very very different. The minute Amanda moved from Iowa to Houston to be with her mother, she cut ties with Sai, telling him very clearly that they were never getting back together. There was no infidelity, no partying. In fact, Amanda was working several part-time jobs to raise her daughter, who she still didn't have full custody of, by herself. Once again, despite the ridiculous claims that Sai is about to make, keep in mind the moment Amanda moved to Houston, the two were never romantically involved or living together again >> after the divorce. >> After the divorce, uh 200 um 9 December, um I finished my NBA program back in Iowa >> and we were still kind of keeping in touch and during that that time of the NBA is when she got full custody. >> So I was happy for her. I was like, you know, >> of of uh Kelsey of Kelsey. Kelsey, I'm sorry. >> Right. Yeah. And so then um I was like, look, you know, I finished my NBA program. Um I I still love you. I still love Kelsey, you know. Um you know, I had found like a a John Ostein uh devotional. Uh and Amanda had stuffed like a picture of Kelsey and then when I had opened it, like it fell out and I was like crying and uh I was like, "Let's work it out. I promise." like we have to go to church and all this stuff. So I came down December uh 2009 uh we moved in together and then for 3 months like we were living together and going to church and then like she just felt like you know I just want to date other people she said you know >> so y'all divorced. >> So we were divorced already. We're divorced. We were going to come back together like you know. >> Did you want the divorce? >> No. >> You want the divorce? >> No. No. >> Did you fight the divorce? I filed it because of that phone call that my friend gave me that she had reached out to him. Dr. Mel, >> you filed for divorce >> after. Yeah. And then I I also wanted to get back together after that, you know. >> Okay. >> All right. So, >> let's fast forward a little bit. Okay. Um there's she moved to Did she move to Tomball >> at some point? Okay. So um she started I think she started dating Wayne I don't know when exactly but um I know that by um by 2012 I think they were dating and um so I was like I was actually working at Lakewood Church with the children in the children's ministry for Veronica Montgomery like right before that and um you know so they know my story though used to pray for me I used to take names of you know sick patients in hospitals to pray for her like Tuesdays, you know. Um I um you know I had started to feel like you know there's a there's a scripture in the Bible about like Joel 2:28 how God will give you like visions and dreams right so one day like I was like Dodio Ostein's I still remember Dodie Ostein's blood drive and I think it was 2012 and Joel Ostein had preached a message that pray for what you hope for um and in that interim time between like 2009 and 10 like occasionally I'm and they would let me see Kelsey, you know, we had a good time. Like she would stay over at my mom's house. We'd go out for pizza. I'd take her to Lakewood and the Sacred Heart Church to go see the big statue of Christ and all that. And um but I noticed like Amanda was becoming more like on on off with Kelsey. And um 2012 it had been an off period and you know Joel Steven had had said that and I prayed for it and then suddenly I just felt like a a vibe you know like you know like I I had closed my eyes and prayed and I felt like Kelsey was like running away from Wayne like in the sanctuary like running across like the Lakewood Church sanctuary. So I was like oh whatever that's like whatever we need to go and Kelsey's with Wayne and Amanda. So, I was in the uh after sanctuary, I went to to the blood drive bus and um you know, I saw a text in I still have the text and uh it's on a phone. I saved it uh at my uh my my apartment and uh those texts said uh are you at Lakewood? I have a notion to see. That was a text from Amanda. So, I was like, "Wow, that was like crazy, you know, like I was just praying about Kelsey and then she she winds up being at Lakewood. But I didn't even know it. And I was like actually like joking around with like this other grandma lady on the bus on the blood drive bus about how tough marriage is. And then I saw that and I was like, "Wow." Like that was a miracle, you know? So I I met Amanda and then we I got to see Kelsey and it was awesome. >> In case you haven't clocked it, Sai likes God almost as much as he likes Joel Olstein. Unfortunately for him, detectives aren't here for a sermon or for his demonization of the woman that he's just shot. You know, Amanda had told me like >> let's let's I know there's a lot of history here, you know. >> You know, you know where we came from. Came all the way from League City and and I that history is important to you. I understand it. A lot of emotions there. A lot of why you did things for gifts and and birthdays and and you love this girl. >> Yes. >> You love Kelsey. >> Yes. >> Let's let's fast forward a little bit to >> Okay. What about did did you come to did you go to their house about a month ago maybe three months three weeks ago when the police were called? >> Uh I tell me about that. >> There was no police calls at that time that I was aware of. Like I had >> Did you show up at their house recently? And I don't mean prior to I mean prior to the incident took place >> maybe I don't know if it was 3 weeks ago. It might have been >> whenever it was I never interacted with you correct. >> No police never made contact with you by phone. >> I had no >> or by person. Not in person. No. >> Okay. But you did you come to their house? >> I dropped off some books uh for part of our financial ministry. And so I was hoping that um I was hoping that everybody could like get along at some point cuz I'd also been like a couple Christmases ago to drop presents. And like Wayne's historic response is like get my house like you know I'll kill you or something like that. That's his like typical. you try to explain to to >> I have a videotape of the Christmas uh interaction actually um that I can share with you guys and I had showed it to Mike and uh Amanda's brother um Sean as well and they giggled about it and then we prayed and left but a few week the most recent time that I visited I did not knock on their door I did not interact with Wayne I did not trouble them >> did you drop by the house >> I drove by the house to drop the books and I left that's it >> where did you drop the books at >> in the front door >> front door >> front door and they were basically a book called Saving for Your Future. Um, my message, >> did you leave a note? >> No. No. >> Did you text anyone and say, "Hey, I dropped books at your door." >> No. No. >> Did you call anyone to tell them you had >> I had I had uh I had invited uh I had texted Mike um to to join like uh this financial movement and like the Pope is involved with this financial movement and all that. And I had hoped actually to pick up like a like a insurance license uh and then to build a team to support my ministry with the with the income and all that. Uh so nobody um nobody uh mentioned that was a problem. Uh I didn't see it as a problem. You know, I noticed that they had a for sale sign. If anything, I thought that that would help them if they're struggling financially and they need to sell the home. It seems Sai hasn't been listening close enough to his hero or doesn't have enough brains to realize that police reports exist. Over the course of more than 6 years, Amanda had filed multiple reports against Sai for harassment and stalking. But police told her not much could be done unless he threatened her. In one instance, he came to her window firing shots outside it in the dead of night. And in the incident just 3 weeks ago where police actually spoke in person to SI in Amanda's yard, Amanda had called 911 after their dog began barking at windows, indicating that someone was creeping around outside. Of course, it was none other than the creep that detectives are questioning right now. He was issued a trespass violation for stalking around their property. And yet here he is claiming that all he was doing was dropping off financial books to help them. >> Let's fast forward to >> Wednesday morning the day of the incident. >> I'll call it the incident cuz I don't know what it is. >> Sure. Yeah. >> That morning you woke up Wednesday morning start your day. >> Sure. So uh actually I had to work late on Tuesday at the hospital. So, by profession, I'm a professional ICU diialysis nurse. And uh so, you know, people count on me to protect them and save their life, not to take it. >> Um, you know, and it's a good job. It's a great job. It's actually funded like our our mission trip last year and >> over like 20 grand into the ministry, you know, so I'm thankful for it. Uh but around two well I probably woke up like around two in the afternoon because I was so tired from like the whole working night before. >> Yeah. Yeah. And doing all these projects, you know. >> I woke up at 2. >> Yeah. So then I went to a meeting uh regarding this financial uh thing. Um you know uh you know uh I had finally gotten my my insurance licenses and it's uh part of the Aegon family of companies. Uh so it's like side income that I wanted to make and support the ministry and donate to kids and all that in India and um so it's uh so there's Agon, there's Transame, there's Maryland and then their education and marketing arm is called World Financial Group. Uh so this is the thing that I wanted uh Amanda and Wayne to look at and also Mike and Grandma Rose as well uh as helping like the entire family and then planning for Kelsey and Carly and Kaye something good for their future that will come out of something bad originally, right? where everybody was once fighting. >> Clearly, he's not just a Joel Olstein fan. He's an Alman Brothers fan because boy is he a rambling man. >> You bought the you bought the gift. >> Um >> then what happened? >> So I um >> So you woke up at 2:00. It took a couple hours for shopping or the meeting. Then you went shopping. What time are we at >> at this point? >> Evening. Um I don't remember. Um, >> what time what time did you s Let me ask you this. What time did you decide to leave that area and come down to Lake City? >> Um, right after the Lifeway bookstore. You know, I went down there and then I went to a a CVS and um, you know, I went to was it CVS or Walgreens? >> Where'd you get at CVS? Uh there I got the uh the pink bag uh that the gifts were in and um and um like the paper to wrap the gifts. Yeah. >> Okay. Or the tissue paper. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. So I'm assuming you get in the car, put the presents in the car, wrap it and all that stuff. >> Then you go towards her house. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So then I um So then I was like, you know, um you know, I was like, "Okay, um I doubt anything's going to happen. And I don't win. It's going to hurt me. And >> let me ask you this. >> Why would you think that at this point you're bringing a gift? >> Mhm. I >> mean, you haven't been cuz you haven't told me that you've been confrontational with with Wayne or anyone else. >> I've always tried to Why the first thing is you're thinking is, you know, I think something's going to happen. >> Well, I think something's going to happen. Well, I was like, I doubt I mean, I doubt something will happen, but just in case, you know, let me just protect myself, you know. So, >> but let me my question to you is is why would you think something's going to happen? You got to help me paint that picture for yourself. >> Because uh I just because Okay. I felt like I felt like there's two possibilities. I felt like why would they keep Kelsey from her relatives all these years? Why would they keep her from me when she like adored me and like begged for me at one point? Like why why why are they doing this to her? You know, are they are they abusers is what's going through my head. >> Yeah. But my question to you at that point is >> she is care custody control caregiver for that child, not you. Right. >> Right. >> Okay. And and you know that Let me ask you this. Do you think that that's and I'm going to be blunt with you. >> Is that any of your business? >> You're not involved with that child anymore. The divorce, >> she's remarried. >> Yeah. I mean, but >> and there's been no history, you know, but what I'm I'm trying to get at, pastor, is >> help me understand why you felt why you thought I don't think nothing's going to happen. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> nothing's happened in the past. Right. >> Right. I mean, they've never been abus abusive towards you in the past, have they? >> Well, when I showed up at Christmas, like a couple years ago. Yeah. With presents. That was on the video. I could show. >> Well, well, okay. The message is short of verbal abuse. >> Have they ever been physically abusive with you? >> No. >> Okay. >> Me neither. >> And and and you know, so so there's been no physical abuse in the past >> to warrant you thinking something might happen. Well, you know, I my thing is >> because let me I'll be quite honest with you. I mean, you being a pastor and a guy fairing man, you know how important Christmas is to people. >> Yeah. >> If someone showed up my door unannounced, uninvited Christmas morning, when I'm around a tree with my kiddos, >> my most sacred time of the year, cuz it is. >> Yeah. >> I'd be upset, too. And I'm not sure I wouldn't verbally go off on someone showed up on my door unannounced, uninvited. So, I'm not saying his actions were appropriate, obviously, but you can understand those actions, can't you? Uh, I don't think so because I would be okay because like if if somebody had been a part of if Kelsey were with me, like if the shoe was on the other foot and Kelsey was me and I was raising her and I knew that she adored uh Papa Mike, you know, and I might not necessarily be best buddies with Papa Mike or approve everything or, you know, >> Fair enough. Fair enough. That's my as a Christian that's my that's my thing that this is for the child. It's in her best interest to have those relations in touch >> and thank you for helping me understand that >> the Christmas incident that he is referring to happened in 2015 when Sai showed up at Amanda and Wayne's door unannounced and asked if he could pray with their kids. Now keep in mind that was 7 years after he and Amanda had divorced. At that point, Amanda had gone no contact with him for quite some time. In fact, as far back as 2011, she had purposefully moved frequently in order to hide her address from Sai. So, him showing up at her doorstep asking if he could pray with her kids, when she's in a home with Wayne, who she's been married to for longer than she was ever married to Sai, that's a situation that only seems sane if you are insane, which does explain some things. So, >> so, so you're you're you're driving over there and you're like, >> I don't think nothing's going to happen. >> Correct. Is that what you told me? I don't put words in your mouth. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But, >> but and nothing's happened in the past other than the verbal abuse from when you showed up on that at Christmas morning, correct? >> Okay. There had been no road rage incident between you and Wayne. >> No, no other incidents where he's pulled a knife on you >> um or anything like that. I had a few slash tires uh earlier in the year uh like three in a row back to back and I don't know who did it but I thought he might >> you know we're about fairness so we can't say he did it he didn't but >> but >> so you're heading over to the house correct >> and what is your thinking you already said that you don't think nothing's going to happen but if but you're about to say I cut you off >> yeah and so okay so part of what's been going through my head um the last few months months is that this sense it's like that Lakewood Church feeling that I had like when I when I was seeing like Kelsey come across the sanctuary and then boom, I had her. Like I've had this sense that like there's some harm being done to her. You know, it's like a strong strong feeling that somebody in Wayne's family is harming Kelsey. And I just I can't um aside from biblically like I cannot justify it legally. I cannot justify it in any other way other than to say, you know, I was constantly just, you know, imploring Rose Gordon, her grandma, please, please, you know, please check. Please check. >> This is important for me. You you you said something earlier that might have >> went through my ear real quick. I didn't understand it. You said >> you said something biblically. >> Yeah. Like I felt like again, according to Joel, help me understand that. So, let me tell you where I'm at with my faith. I'm trying real hard. Yeah, >> I question it at times >> and I'm trying real hard. >> Um, so when you use those words like biblical and I'm trying to register what it means to me and what it means to you, you understand? I want I want to make sure I understand you because sometimes my sense of what biblical means is not the same as as Thomas or pastor size. >> So >> when you mean by biblical, tell me what that means to you. So, um I feel like I call it the Holy Spirit intuition, like knowing when something's wrong. Like one time I had gone over to to to check on them because I felt like this strong compulsion something was wrong. Uh, and this was back when they lived in um um >> No, this was >> I don't know if it was >> airport. >> It was near Deer Park area, but I don't think it was. It was >> somewhere >> somewhere Texas city maybe or something like that. Somewhere over there by Sanj. >> And I I went to go check and Amanda wasn't home, but Mike was home and I was like, "Man, I just been having this feeling like something's wrong. Like, are you okay?" And he was like, "Well, actually, I was in the hospital last night. I had you know like a major thing happened with with someone uh with my stomach you know and so like these are things like um it's more like uh like what John Ostein uh Dr. Jean Ostein and then Dodie Ostein teach you know it's um it it's you know kind of in line with Joel 2:28 where God will give you dreams and visions but you always you also have like you know like feelings like Joel comes in the spirit man like something is telling intuition is what a scientist would say >> something is not right here is what >> when you said biblical I wanted to make sure God wasn't talking to you telling you this >> no I don't hear voices I don't hear yeah none of that I don't yeah nothing like that it's just um just a gut feeling like something's not right about >> intuition like you said is a great word for it I >> now let I'm I'm going ask you to expound upon that >> um intuition is gut feeling is important to people >> did you have any physical evidence >> did you have any evidence whatsoever >> just uh >> to prove your gut feeling >> no and there is some CPS history also um so that would be the background of physical evidence of >> because Kelsey was uh she was struck according to her words by a fellow named Mark that that that Amanda used to date. Um and so uh when I found out about that I told my school counselor and she's a PhD in psychology and she called CPS. >> We already have a CPS history. >> Okay. >> So and I've I've actually like forwarded that to probably 20 judges and 78 Michigan legislators cuz I worry about that. Sai is unable to come up with any evidence that Kelsey or any of Amanda's other children were being mistreated because that evidence doesn't exist. In fact, the only incident where CPS investigated Amanda occurred when Sai had CPS called on her after he made false claims to a mandated reporter. CPS investigated and very quickly determined that there were absolutely no concerns of mistreatment in Amanda and Wayne's home because just as a reminder, Wayne and Amanda got married in 2012. At that point, they had been dating for several years and Wayne was more of a father to Kelsey than Sai had ever been, considering the fact that Sai and Amanda separated when Kelsey was a year old, >> you know. >> So, you're driving? to her house Wednesday night. Do you remember exactly what time? >> Uh I don't It was getting uh it was getting kind of dark. Um >> I don't remember the exact time. Um >> you drive there and you go just pick up in your work. >> Yeah. So then um I was like, "Okay, let me see if you know um you know if if if they have finally allowed Carly and Kelsey to talk again, you know, because that is like that's something I kind of send um >> Carly and Kelsey. Who's Carly?" >> Carly is the middle sister. >> Okay. >> Who's with Rose Gordon? Who's it >> doesn't with them? >> Right. No. And so, um, >> so let me ask this. You, that's what your main objective is is to go see if I mean your main >> Well, yeah. I mean, my main objective is simply to go and drop the president and leave. That's it. Um, and that I think either the day of or the day before I had texted uh Mike and Grandpa Mike and Grandma Rose uh something like um you know what can be done on Kelsey's birthday to both protect her and give her dignity. And by that I mean restore fractured relationships, make sure the kids are talking. Uh I was a porton special advocate working with CPS kids before. Sibling rights is like huge. >> I'm going to redirect you. you tend to sway off of going to this house which is which is >> I'm just g background >> man >> I I told you when we first started I feel like you're a good person I feel like you're a good person >> um so I do want to understand what's important to you and you know we got to get to where we need to get >> okay so that was my thought process I arrive at the house >> and um you know so I've gotten a text and um it says said something like from Rose. Yeah, Carly and Kelsey did finally get to talk, but Sean Charles didn't get to talk to Kelsey. >> Okay. >> You know, so the biological father. So that was, you know, that was, you know, I was very happy that the >> So where did you get that text at? >> Um I think I was already I may have been already there or or I pulled it up like when I got there. >> Okay. So when you when you say got there, you pull onto the street. >> That's my recollection. I don't remember exactly what time I took the text, honestly. You you pulled onto the street, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, you park. >> Yeah. >> Tell go from there. >> Okay. So, I was like, you know, like I feel like, you know, I have my clergy badge on. Like, I feel like I'm going to go minister to these people. I'm going to say hello to Wayne. I'm going to bring peace. I'm going to bring peace because they must be in a peaceful mood if they let Carly and Kelsey talk. That's my thought is that surely they're not going to see any harm. I'm just bringing Christian CDs and a biblical devotion. That's it. Okay. And um so I knock on the door and uh you know I had picked up some boxes that somebody else left, you know. So I was like, "Hey, I was going to knock on the door and just give them to Wayne or Amanda or whoever answered be like, "Hey, happy birthday. Um this is for me and my ministry and I would love to talk to you guys about, you know, uh the financial ministry books that I left too." You know, that was my my agenda, right? So, um, I rang the doorbell and >> let me reverse you real quick. >> How long did when you parked, how long did you stay in the car? >> Was it you pull up, stop, get out? >> It wasn't too long. Yeah. >> Or did you go park and stop? >> Uh, it wasn't too long. I mean, I don't know how long I don't know how long I was there, but um, you know, I saw some neighbors like sitting there on the porch. I just kind of nodded to them. Got you. Got you. Um cuz you know I had I had my Yeah. >> You had what? >> I had my I had the pink uh you know I had the pink bag in my hand and um you know so when I when I when I rang the doorbell I mean immediately Wayne answered and he's like get on the go get on get on the floor. Um you know and like he had a gun pointed at me. So like my heart was like pounding, you know, I felt like I was having a heart attack because I didn't expect that, you know. I didn't go for that. I didn't want to do any harm. I had presents in my hand. He's like, "Put the boxes down. Get on your knees." You know, and then suddenly like uh I was like, "Oh my god." Like I just I'm dropping presents for Kelsey's birthday. Like put the gun away. And then um then Amanda suddenly drove up and with two kids in the car and Kelsey was one of them I believe and then the other uh kid I don't know but Amanda like rushed out the door with a gun cocked at me. She's like get on your knees. Get on your knees. I'm like what are you guys doing? You know like what the heck are you guys doing? Like I'm here to draw presents. That's it. I wasn't showing a weapon. I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't threatening them. I have no zero intention of doing any harm. Zero. So then like um you know Wayne's like, "Oh, I'm tired of you harassing our family." I'm like, "How am I harassing your family, dude? Like I'm not doing anything to you. I'm bringing you presents. I wanted to see Kelsey. That's all." You you had told me, Wayne, that that you would let me see her. I have tape recording of that also, you know, from years ago. He's like, "No, I didn't say that." I said, "I do have that recording, Wayne, you know, like just relax, you know, get on your knees, you know." So, he's like screaming and I'm pleading with him like, "Just put the gun away. Relax." I'm begging him, you know, like put the gun away. >> Having a recording from several years ago of her, Wayne allegedly saying that Sai can visit Kelsey is kind of negated by the fact that he stalked them after that recording to the point that they went to the police dozens of times. but in size twisted mind. He was never stalking them, just showing up uninvited frequently to homes that he was never given the address for and told not to visit. >> And then Amanda like called uh I guess she called you guys at that point and she said something like, "Oh, uh you know, I'm following up uh you know, there's some guy that's been stalking me for like 10 years." And that's that's her uh you know prototype story dam and distress thing where uh where she thinks like I'm like obsessed with her or something like that. I have no interest in Amanda. I'm not romantically interested in her, physically interested or any any kind of interest like that. I have one >> one thing that drives a ministry. I created the ministry for Kelsey and her sister so they have a legacy of serving Christ and they know they can have a career in Christian music. You know, I wanted to share that with them and the whole family and Rose and Brad and Sean Charles and >> whatever. >> So, so you're at the doorway. She pulls up. She's got her gun on you. He's got his gun on you. >> She's on the phone with 911. You know she's on the phone with 911, right? >> I figured either that police station. Yeah. And then >> police station is 911. >> Yeah. So, uh I wasn't sure if they did an emergency call or not. They had >> Okay, I understand. And then Wayne Wayne did mention that I talked to a detective and you know he said that if you ever come here we'll make a citizen's arrest on you. And I'm like okay like so put the gun down you know. So then I was like begging him like just let me stand up. Let me stand up and then he like hit me and like put me on the ground you know. >> Okay. So so you complied with their orders when they said get on the ground and get on the ground. Were you on your stomach or were you on your knees >> and knees? Knees. Yeah. And my hands were in the air. And then um I uh I told Amanda I was like, "What are you doing?" Like, you know, >> now are you in the front door area? >> Yeah, it was like uh so yeah, it was like in that front door um entrance way >> and so Wayne Wayne had come on, he was in the entrance way and then Amanda had drove up here and she was like right in front of the entrance way. And I'm thinking like I'm looking at Wayne and I'm like, man, this is like uh you know, this looks like a demonic child molester kind of guy, you know? like why is he not uh why is he so angry that he's like pointing gun and and not not willing to deescalate? You know, I'm trying to deescalate both of them. And I and then some kid was in the in the car with Kelsey and she's like screaming and crying. Oh my god. Oh my god. She has a gun. She has a gun. And I'm like, "Amanda, calm down. Put the gun away. Get in the car. Drive the kids to where they're not watching all this. You know, this is not right." >> You know, so I was begging them. And then I was like, then I got really scared because neither of them were putting the gun down. So I literally started weeping, you know, because I was like, just don't hurt me, you know, don't hurt me. Please, please, you know, and I literally like was so scared like I mean like my heart was pounding and I thought I was going to I literally I'm a grown man. I thought I was going to pee my pants, you know. And so, thank God like finally um finally uh the dispatcher uh told Amanda, "Put your gun. Does he you know is he showing a weapon or something like that?" And then uh you know um you know Amanda was like, "Okay, Wayne, they told us to put our gun down. Put our guns down." >> And did Wayne comply with that order? >> Yeah. So Wayne >> So he put his gun down. >> He he went somewhere. He went inside. And so I don't know if he put his gun down, but Amanda put her gun down. >> He put his He put his gun down inside. >> Okay. >> So cuz Yeah. >> Okay. So So at that point, >> you glossed over this real quick. Amanda put her gun down, too, right? >> She did at that point. Okay. >> Away from you. >> Uh yes, away from me. >> Away from you. >> No way from me. And so >> so at this point, there are no guns visible. Correct. >> No guns visible. >> Okay. All right. All right. >> So I'm like, "Thank you, Jesus. I'm going to go home. I'm just going to just get up slowly and just apologize and say, "Look, I'm going to step out. I'm going to step right there to the next." >> So, help help me understand this. >> Wayne put his gun up inside. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Yeah. >> And the reason why I know that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is cuz that's where we found the gun. >> Okay. >> Inside. >> Okay. >> But what I also know is that Wayne turned his back on you and Wayne went put his gun inside. >> Yeah. So he >> So Wayne didn't feel you were a threat >> at that point. >> And I thought they were not going to be a threat at that point. >> Okay. So Wayne puts his gun up. >> Yes. >> No weapon. >> Yes. >> She puts her gun down. Correct. Yes. >> Per dispatch. Put your gun down. >> Yes. >> Okay. So at this moment we got nobody with guns. Correct. >> Right. >> Okay. I want to make sure I'm on we're on the same place. Yes. >> At that point no one can shoot anyone. >> Correct. at all cuz there are no guns present. >> No guns visible. >> No guns visible. But there was a gun because while Wayne and Amanda were both legally allowed to carry a firearm and each of them had actually taken classes on safe handling, Sai had his own gun, one that he bought illegally and wasn't registered to him in any way. >> I wasn't putting a gun at anyone either. I thought I was safe. No, I thought I was safe. So, I was like, I got up slowly and I was like, "Look, guys, I'm just going to come I I I'm just gonna go to the the driveway next door and I'm going to stay there." >> Okay. >> Did you tell them that? >> Yes. And I had my hands up in the air. >> Okay. >> Okay. As soon as I I got up and stepped towards the garage door, Amanda went back to her gun, picked it up, and then Wayne came like charging at me, you know? So, I thought he had his gun at that point. Okay. He charged at me. He attacked me. He hit me. And Kelsey was watching this whole thing. >> Okay. And and I hope that Kelsey saw enough to where she told you I did not strike them. I did not hit them. I didn't instigate any kind of uh >> Pastor S. I'm I'm going to kind of shut you down a little bit. Okay. >> Cuz we we have a little better than >> two kids witnessing it. Okay. But we also have video from the house that's Caddy Corner >> recently got video cameras installed. It's very good video and I'm going to challenge you to the fact that >> um Amanda picked her gun up. >> I'm going to challenge you to that fact. Okay. >> She had it though in her hand pointing at me. >> I'm going to challenge you that after seeing the video. >> Uh I I would I would ask that you watch it again because because when I Okay. So, I was like I was like right here near near to the the the the the uh to to Wendy, I guess, and about to leave to the next apartment. I mean, the next uh home, and I saw the guy, he it looked like he was like popping in and out the neighbor. So, Wayne came at me and he he attacked me and struck me. So, I thought and Amanda was pointing with >> his fist. He He I saw his hand go up and I thought he had a gun. I had no idea whether he had a gun or not. I thought he still did. I thought he pulled some trick where he might have like put it in his back pocket or something. Okay. So, at that point, like I yelled out. I don't know if you heard the the dispatch uh calling it, but I yelled out that they're assaulting me. They're assaulting me. And Amanda was like pointing her her weapon at me. Okay. And and at that point I just like I was scared because I thought both of them have guns and now he's striking me physically and he's actually going to kill me. So at that point I pulled the gun that I had and I fired. And then like when he went down like then it was like then I just I didn't want to I didn't want to shoot her. I didn't want to to hurt her, but I did fire in that direction because I I I saw she had a gun. And the reason I know she had a gun is because after she um my my my magazine ran out and then she was screaming and she like ran back in the house and I saw a gun right there. She put >> I will I will >> I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you thought maybe he had a gun maybe put in his back. He went inside and put his gun up. Okay. >> Now, he turned his back on you. You might have looked away and not saw him put the gun down. >> I didn't see it. >> I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, pastor side, that that you still thought maybe he had a gun and it was in his hand when he came to hit you. Yes. >> Okay. I will say this. Even if >> he had the gun in his hand and he was going to hit you with a gun in his hand, that's I mean, we're I mean, we're not talking about like this shooting to kill, >> but but it could be the next step because there's two guns, you know. So, I had no reason to believe you again, Pastor because because you know, video is is is clear. >> Yeah. >> All right. When the dispatcher told her to put that gun down, >> she went and put that gun down. >> Yeah, but you know what she put in? >> Hold on. Hold on. We're not going to play semantics here. All right. >> We got dead people. We're not going to play games. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. I've given you the benefit of the doubt this entire time. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. She didn't pick that gun up again. I've watched the video and about 12 other detectives have watched that video. >> I I I That was And I was watching it. She had to because she put the gun down near the front door and then she she picked it back up when I got up to get over and then she was pointing at me when Wayne jumped on me. And then after all that she she must have dropped the gun. I thought in my mind that when I fired at her she she have she may have ricocheted or or just dropped it and ran. But the gun was over here. But first it was here. So, there has to be some video that shows that she she kneled down by the front door and then the gun wound up there and I didn't touch that gun. >> Okay. So, >> I didn't want it to happen like that. I That's the last thing I wanted is is for kids to see that, for someone to get shot, for my ministry and my job to be destroyed by this. >> Well, I can wholeheartedly understand that. So when you get up, he you use the term attacked you. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Um and if you felt that way, that's the term you should have used. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um he came like this. You said >> to swing. You felt he had a gun in his hand. >> Yes. >> Okay. Can I tell you he did not have a gun in his hand? >> Okay. Okay. The gun that he originally had was placed inside where we found it. Right inside the doorway. >> Okay. >> He did not have a gun in his hand. >> All right. So, you shot him >> how many times? >> I don't know. I just pressed the trigger and then it was just like it was panic mode. >> Okay. >> So, you shot him. Then you then Amanda did what? >> Uh I I I saw her with a gun in her hand. you know, and so I I fart in that direction and then she was like screaming and then and then I was like, "Oh my god." Like my heart was pounding and then like then all I remember was seeing her run in in the in the house. And then I was like, "Oh my god." You know, like everything in my heart wanted to like just tell the kids, "Hey, I'm so sorry you saw this. It's okay now. It's done." Just a reminder, Sai had every opportunity to not make the children, including the child he claimed to care so much about, go through this. Because though he claims all he wanted to do was make it better for them and apologize, what the camera caught him doing next proves that his actions weren't done out of self-defense. They were done out of a need for control and his own hatred for the woman who rightfully got away from him. So, I saw that and then I was like, "Okay, there's no reason to shoot anymore. Let me leave." You know, because I was I was I wanted to stay. That was what my heart was telling me to do. Just stay, talk to cops, talk to everybody. But the way that things went down where she was constantly telling on the phone, "This guy's stalking me. This guy's stalking me." And then I'm thinking like all the news, you know, I'm a colored man. I have nothing against you guys, but I mean, you know, this is a bad this looks a bad situation. You know, you know, they're they're already build up. They think that stoppers at the door. Uh they hear gunshots. They hear her screaming and I'm a colored guy and I can have my hands up and I'm still afraid I'm going to get shot, you know. So, what I did was I didn't even get to say bye to Kelsey. I just drove. And then my mind was like racing just a million miles an hour. >> Hold on a second. Yep. >> We got a lot of reverse in. >> Okay. >> When you left after the shooting, >> yeah, >> you were leaving out a you're leaving out a lot of stuff. Leaving out a lot of stuff. And what you're leaving is out is you left, stopped, turned back around, and went back. What did you do when you went back? I don't remember. Would you like me to tell you? >> Yes. >> Now, I want you to remember. >> I don't remember what's happening. >> I want you to remember. >> You've been been pretty pretty specific about the stuff that benefited you. You've been pretty clear on everything that benefits Pastor Sai. Give me something that you did that you know damn well you shouldn't have done after he was shot laying on that ground. What' you do when you went back? I I think I shot at the door. I might have shot at the door. >> You didn't shoot at the door pasture. You know what you did? >> Okay. Um, you know, I told you I going to yell at you. I'm not going to do that cuz I ain't must. >> Sure. >> All right. But I don't like being lied to. All right. I don't like being told, you know, for about an hour now everything that is good in your life, why you do everything good and for the pastor, for the for for the ministry, for for everything. That's all admirable. >> All right. It's all very very very honorary. Okay. But now it's time to start talking about some of the things Pastor Sai did that night that Pastor Sai knows is not godly. >> You didn't go shoot at that door. All right. Don't sit here and lie to me cuz I hadn't sat here and lied to you either. >> I don't know. >> I don't. >> Okay. You do know autopsies to take place. You know how those work, right? Yes, sir. Okay. You know what the autopsy says? >> You went right back to him, which is on video again. Not going to lie to you. You're going to see the video. Okay. >> You're going to see the video. You know you're charged with murder, right? You know that. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. There's a reason why you're charged with murder. There's a reason why you're not charged with with or or we just went and said, "Hey, come talk to us. We want to investigate you for this." There's a reason why we didn't give you the benefit of the doubt thinking it was self-defense. All right. I want you You're a smart guy. You got a You got a a a master's degree, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Pretty smart dude. Okay. This investigation turned real quick away from self-defense. Real quick based on a few things. The stiffling marks. You know what stiffling is? No. >> When a gun is so close to somebody's skin, okay, that means gunpowder residue. All right. You went over to that man and put two bullets in the side of his head after you originally shot him. >> Yes, you did. Pastor Sai, >> it wasn't at the same time, >> Pastor Sai. I let you sit here and rumble >> for a long time. Okay. There's two gunshot wounds. The gun was close to his head, >> actually his right forehead. There's two gunshot wounds with stiffings to it. The only way it's scientifically possible to get stifling marks on a person's skin is if the gun is against the skin or within couple of inches in perimeter. All right? That's why you're not sitting here giving the benefit of the doubt that this is self-defense. >> All right? Because self-defense. Bam. Bam. Oh [ __ ] I'm out of here. I'm taking off running. Okay. Calling the police. Calling 911. Hey, pull guns on me. I I had to shoot to get away. That's self-defense. Running to a neighbor's bang on the door. Call the police. Call the police. That's self-defense. You know what self-defense isn't? you going and standing over Amanda and acting like you're going to shoot her again or trying to shoot her again in the gun dry stunning. Do you remember that? >> No. >> You did that. Now, I don't know if it was anger, >> and I don't know what got into you at the time, but that ain't self-defense when you go back to Amanda and try to kill her and step over her like a piece of meat like you did that's on video and do this and your gun is out of bullets. You know why your gun's out of bullets? Cuz you shot 10 times at Wayne. That's why this ain't self-defense. >> The footage at the scene of the crime actually showed Sai initially run away after shooting Amanda twice very intentionally. Once in the arm and once in the leg. He reached the end of the driveway before he stopped, turned around and sprinted back to Amanda, who was curled up on the pavement, bleeding profusely. He pointed his weapon directly at her face and pulled the trigger. But with no bullets left, the gun just clicked. That is the only reason why Amanda lived to tell police exactly what happened and to continue raising her beautiful children with Wayne. >> Do you remember going back stepping over Amanda and pointing the gun right in her face? >> No. >> Cuz she sure does. You know she's not dead. Do you know she's not dead? >> Yeah, cuz I started running in the house. >> Okay. >> Well, she could have died running in the house. >> Did you know she's not dead? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So the video says it. The video shows it. And you did it. You stood right over here. Bam. Bam. Realize your gun was empty. Now, I don't know why you did that. I have a good feeling it's cuz of the anger. I'mma get I wasn't I was I was in panic mode cuz I just saw her with the gun. So, I was thinking that like at that point, it's either like me or them, you know? >> I didn't want >> I didn't want this to happen. >> I I grew Who who the hell wants this to happen? And no [ __ ] >> I know you didn't want this to happen. >> But it happened. And the way it happened was you emptied a whole round, 10 rounds of bullets into Wayne seven times >> into Amanda two times. And you missed one round. >> Was she injured? >> Was who injured? >> Amanda. >> Injured. >> You shot her twice. >> Yeah, you shot her twice. She's still hospital. So, I can sit here and buy that you didn't want this to happen. >> Yes, sir. >> I get that. >> But I can also think Pastor S knew this [ __ ] was going to happen cuz Pastor S loaded himself up with his gun and went to the front door with a gun anticipating this to happen. Because you know what? Regardless if they had guns at you, regardless if they were pointing guns at you, if you didn't have a gun, none of this [ __ ] would have happened. If you didn't show up to her house, none uninvited, let me add, none of this would have happened. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. You know, in the state of Texas, people can on private property point guns at others. It's called the Castle Act. >> Yes, sir. Have every right in the world to the Castle Doctrine. That gives you the authority on your own property to point guns at people and protect your property. >> It even enhances it at night time. Okay. >> All right. So, um I get you didn't want this to happen. I understand that. I wholeheartedly believe you you didn't want this to happen. Where where did your rosary get broken at? >> Uh when he pulled it uh when he pulled it like I assume he was trying to pull it like when he was trying to push me down on my knees. And I showed it to him. I picked it up and I showed him. I said, "Look, man. Like this is what I'm about. like it doesn't have to be like this. >> Even the Pope would roll his eyes at that one. >> Explain to me the stiffling to the skin to to explain to me the two point blank close to the head wounds that do not that do not indicate self-defense to me. Explain that to me scientifically. Explain that. >> I can't explain it. The only thing the only thing that was happening in my mind was like like he you know he was on me and I was just like firing you know I I had no idea after that like I just remember like falling backward and like pointing toward Amanda and then I just I don't know like when things finally slowed down in my mind was when she was like at the door. I didn't even think she was shot. I didn't want to shoot her. You shot her twice. >> You didn't want to shoot her. You would have pointed a gun at her. >> I just I was in all I can say I was in fight or flight mode, you know? I think just having two guns at me for that long was and two people on two sides just was too much. >> So, where's the gun at right now? >> Uh when I It's in the car. The guns in the car, which we already knew. We got search warranty in the car. >> Um, pants are in the car. All right. It's pretty drenched with blood. >> Yeah. >> Whose blood is that? >> As soon as I like I was like shaking like when I saw that in the gas station, like I knew it was Wayne's blood. It had to be Wayne's blood because he was the only one that was close to me like when I was farming. I thought maybe maybe Amanda had hit me but but I checked like my body >> didn't shoot. That gun didn't shoot, brother. >> That gun didn't shoot. >> You know why I didn't shoot? >> Why? >> She didn't pick it back up on the ground. >> It was there. It was in her hand. I remember her pointing at me. I remember her pointing at me. She had it like she had her phone in one hand and then she was like pointing at me, you know, because that's what she was doing when Wayne was coming towards me. That's all I could see is that there's a gun there and then he has a gun and he's coming at me. >> He don't have a gun. >> I didn't know. >> He didn't have a gun. >> I didn't know. >> Why'd you show up in the first place? >> That's what I want. >> Unannounced, uninvited. You know, everybody s you're doing a good job of blaming everybody else. Pointing the fingers here, here, here, here. >> Not blame, it's just a bad situation. >> It's a horrible situation. A man is dead. >> Yeah. >> A woman is shot. Your ex-wife is shot twice. >> I didn't realize. >> You flee. Not only do you flee back home, in fact, you didn't even go home. >> Yeah. >> You went and withdrew $300 out of ATM. >> Yeah. north side of northwest side of Houston and went to San Antonio. >> I was trying to get to California. I thought that if I could somehow like my uncle is like sound minded and he's a businessman and I thought if I can get to California and explain to him, he can get me an attorney and we'll be okay. You know, we'll work it out. Uh >> you know what? We'd have been okay if you just stuck around. >> That's what my mom said. You're right. >> You miss you'd have been okay. >> Yeah. >> She would have been charged. >> Yes. Yes. At least I would have got been able to tell you >> and not look like a fugitive. That's what the word patrol say. >> Not look like you are a fugitive. >> Yes, sir. >> You fled state of Texas after committing murder. >> And I as I was driving, I was just praying. I was like, man, I hope I I hope they can save in ICU. I hope they would can save in ICU. >> That's impossible. You knew that was impossible. You know why you knew it was impossible? Because you shot Wayne twice in the head, blank blank, to kill that man at that at that particular time. All of the problems Wayne posed to you, you dealt with all those problems right then and there. You put the gun to that man's head and shot him directly to his head. >> We call that anchor shot. where we're going to make sure we kill somebody. Make sure they don't take another breath. That's what you did to him. >> Now you tell me why you did that. >> I don't know. I I don't remember shooting Amanda point blank either. this. >> I'm just sorry. >> You You seem to not remember a lot of stuff that's convenient for Estra S to remember. >> Just those two. I mean, I I take the I mean, I take the blame for shooting, you know. I >> I should I It would have been better if I >> Yeah. It have been much better had if you went, you didn't strap yourself down with a 40 caliber weapon with 10 rounds in it anticipating something happening. >> I mean, it's kind of hard to claim self-defense when you take a gun >> Yeah. >> to someone's property. >> I just figured in Texas everybody carries. Sai was found 16 hours after the shooting at a checkpoint in Los Cusus, New Mexico. By then, Wayne had been deceased for nearly as long as he was dying. Tragically, but also mercifully, after Wayne was shot, he clung to life long enough to say goodbye to Amanda, who was holding his hand as he took his last breath in their driveway. So explain to me explain to me how you feel Detective Aldridge is supposed to believe that you shot this man eight times and you felt that that was in self-defense. Let me ask you this, pastor. You're you're a smart guy. You got a you you got your education is better than mine. Your education is better than his. Okay. >> You're a smart man, smart human being. You think 12 people on that jury's going to believe that? >> That's fight or flight. I mean, >> no, fight or flight is bam bam. That's fight or flight, Pastor S. Come on. >> That's if you have one person on you. When you have two, like something I'm not a I'm not a trained soldier or a or a police officer. My my It was like panic mode. I had two people had been pointing guns at me. >> Had exactly you hit the nail on the head. Had been >> and still was. That's why the gun was over here. That's why Amanda was pointing at me. Amanda was pointing at me again. That's why I felt my life was in danger because she picked the gun back up. So I thought he picked the gun back up. So yes, I could have I could have stayed here, but I didn't trust them. I didn't trust them. I didn't do anything uh when I came to their home to warrant them even having a gun for >> you. Brought a gun, >> but I didn't How How am I supposed to argue >> for you when you bring a gun? >> I walk my dog with a gun at nighttime around the apartment complex. >> At your apartment complex, >> it's enrichment. How are you going to argue self-defense on this when you shoot a man eight times? >> I didn't count. >> And two of them two of them point blank to the head. >> I didn't count. >> You You went and killed that guy on purpose. >> No, I didn't. >> I I'm not saying that was your intent going over there, >> right? >> I'm not saying that. Don't I want you to understand that I'm not saying that's your intent. But when I'm saying when this [ __ ] hit the fan, >> it was on. It was on. And Pastor S was going to get his revenge. >> No revenge. >> Yes, you were. >> No revenge. >> Yeah. >> No revenge. >> Help me understand. >> And they said they would pray for Kelsey and Wayne and Joe. >> Help me understand. If you love Kelsey so much, your self-defense stopped right then and there. It stopped. zero when you stepped over her did that and it's on video. So help me believe that there's a God. Help me. Help me. Help my faith. >> There's a God. >> I don't know that there is. >> Doesn't mean that you know >> I'm talking to a pastor who can't tell me the truth. I'm talking to a pastor who can't who can't tell me the truth. >> I if I see the video, I mean, I'll see the video. I mean, I I can't remember. I cannot remember or or even think that I would do that to her. You know, I was laying in bed here just crying because I can't believe she pulled a gun on me and I can't believe I shot at her. This was my ex-wife. This is someone I loved a long time as someone I had three band I had three bands on my hand radio bands from the Christian radio station for years during nursing school always got to protect my wife ex-wife always protect Kelsey always protect me I kept those on even after divorce well after divorce >> and in about 10 minutes >> about 10 minutes. You took every one of those and shredded them cuz you didn't give a [ __ ] about Chelsea. >> No. >> When you took that gun out and you you started doing what you did. >> I didn't want her to be there. I don't >> Well, she was and you know she was there. So, if you cared that much about Chelsea, >> I cared about my own life too. I knew that two people were pointing guns at me and that I was I was scared. And you know that dispatch told him to put him down and they put him down. >> And they picked him back up. >> No, they did. >> Yes, they did. That's why the gun was over here. You said the gun was over. >> Wayne didn't pick him up. Wayne didn't pick his up. >> Okay. You didn't know. >> He came He came back out of me. That's how he got if he had stayed here and let me go away. that >> he went in there, put his gun down like he was told to by dispatch, and then came back out to make sure you weren't going to leave cuz he wanted you arrested for trespassing, which he has every right in the world that you don't seem to understand. >> Okay, I accept that. I didn't know. I didn't know that, but I accepted it. Even after they said the cops were coming, I told Amanda, I'm going to step right over here. I didn't run. I didn't do nothing. I just walked this way, hands up, and and said, "Look, let me just step over here away from you guys." That's deescalation. I didn't want to be around all those guns and all this rubbish. >> The only rubbish here is everything that's come out of Sigh's mouth. Just a reminder, Amanda has raised Kelsey since she was 6 months old. And still, Sai makes a jab at her, calling her her aunt when he has the gall to refer to himself as her spiritual father. That's in spite of the fact that he was kicked out because he shook her when she was just over a year old 10 years ago. Finally, the detective has had enough of Si's lies, especially when he makes one last attempt at manipulation. >> If you could please check if anyone in Wayne's family has done harm to Kelsey. That's all the CPS issue. I just want to make sure that no one has harmed her and that no one's going to harm her wherever she winds up. >> No, I'm not going to do that for you. You can't even sit here and tell about what happened. You You want me to go check on Chelsea for you? >> It's not for me. It's for her. >> I just I'm not going to do that for you, S. >> I just want her to have a normal life. Her sisters. >> I'm not going to do that for you, S. Sai showed no actual remorse for his actions and continued to manipulate and try to maintain control over Kelsey and Amanda under the guise of his religion and spiritual fatherhood. While in jail, awaiting his trial for charges of murder and aggravated assault, he actually called Amanda telling her, "I just want to pray with you guys on the phone." real quick before we go to trial. Please Jesus, please comfort Amanda. Please help me never to harm her, never to cause her problems again. And unsurprisingly, after that call, he continued to cause problems. At trial, he actually fired his attorney so that he could be the one to question Amanda on the stand. It was one last attempt at control, but on the stand, Amanda didn't buckle, she didn't cry, didn't emote, and didn't fight. With every question he asked, Amanda's collected responses only made him look more unhinged. Ultimately, he was sentenced to 50 years in prison for the murder of Wayne and an additional 20 years for the aggravated assault of Amanda. Thank you for watching today's video. 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