She doesn't get to live for her life anymore. It's not fair. It's not. And I feel guilty like she Meet 34year-old John Carter, the mastermind behind the disappearance of his own wife. My fiance is missing. I I can't find her anywhere. But his plans of pretending to be the victim will go up in flames because of one crucial discovery. Her remains were found in April of 2013. And soon detectives will realize that sitting in front of them is not a concerned husband, but a coldblooded killer. I did not kill her. I did not hurt her. I did not take her. It's come to a point now to where no one's believing this story. I can't believe this. Well, you need to believe it cuz it's happening. On August 14th, 2011, dispatch in Fairfield, Ohio, received a call that would spiral into a 12- year long investigation that ended in one of the most contested court cases in the city's history. My fiance is missing. I I can't find her anywhere. Where was she at midnight last night when you left? She was at her house. She was going to bed. She wasn't going out to do anything. So, she would she would have been in her in her bed. And I mean, I've been with her for six years. I She's not deceiving, you know. She doesn't Okay. And you guys didn't have an argument or anything? Not at all. John Carter had been dating Caitlyn Markham for over 6 years, and they had been engaged for several months when she seemingly vanished over the course of a warm summer night. Caitlyn was a bright artistic spirit who brought joy everywhere she went. Just 2 months from graduating from art school, it seemed like her whole future was laid out in front of her. And then that future disappeared with her. Naturally, all eyes were on Jon as the first suspect. He had been the last one to see her around midnight on August 14th, and several of his actions struck detectives as, well, unusual. From 2011 to 2023, John took part in over seven filmed interrogations, each one growing crazier than the last. We will be sharing portions of these with you, courtesy of the Fairfield Police Department in Fairfield, Ohio. As you'll see, John is a rambler, though his story stays surprisingly consistent. Through the first two rambling interrogations, he disclosed his version of events to police. He and Caitlyn were eager to move to Colorado with each other when she graduated. Their relationship was rainbows and butterflies. The night before she disappeared, the two went to a fair, went back to her house, hung out with a friend. That friend left, and then John kissed Caitlyn good night, and went home. The next day, after not hearing from her, he rushed to her house and began to desperately look for her. As you can see from the officer's notes on his initial statement, police weren't really buying that tale. For months, things were at a standstill. Then in April 2013, police made a discovery. Caitlyn's remains wrapped in a tarp and abandoned in a creek over the state line in Indiana. Her manner of death was ruled homicide, but the cause was unable to be determined due to the deterioration of her remains. With evidence of a homicide on their hands, it was time for law enforcement to up the ante. The following interrogation took place in September of 2013. At this point, Jon's been interrogated twice and subjected to two unfilmed voice stress tests by the FBI, both of which he failed with flying colors. Hi, John. How are you? Nice to meet you. Come on in over here. I got you a chair right over there. John, you want water in this or anything? Water will be fine. Okay. All right. Let me drive you guys. No, I'm all right. I'm all right. All right. How's it going? I mean, busy time of the year. Yeah. I mean, I like I was just telling her, I got a lot of stuff going on. You know, I have to go to this funeral on Sunday and then I I just got a new job at Miami Oxford. So, Oh, did you doing what? uh maintenance for their power plants at their campus. What's your status right now? I mean, are you got a girlfriend or anything? I do. I do have a girlfriend now. Um what's her name? Her name is Kayla. Uh we met about a year and a half ago. Mhm. And uh there's a there's a degree where this kind of thing happens. I feel like you know there's no there's no book there's no proper way of handling it. Mhm. Sure. So the way I feel is um let me can I can I kind of explain to you what happened after the fact? So, so after the fact I fell apart. I was in my house for months. Depression. Yeah. Very intensely. So, I didn't eat for two weeks after. Um my mom finally got me a quarter pounder and uh I we were doing one of the searches and I sat on the side of this hill and was just like, I'm going to put it in. I'm just going to see what happens. And I I started eating and then actually I I really started eating like I devoured the thing. But it was just like, you know, as I'm falling apart and and everything around me seems to be completely ridiculous, I get to a point of the lowest low. And uh there was a particular instance where I'm driving down Pleasant right here. This is Pleasant. Nellis is right here. Uhhuh. I was driving down there and uh I mean I I got to a point where I was I was ready to go. like I didn't I don't want to I didn't want to be here. I gotta be completely honest with you. I drive across I drive across NIS and a uh what I assume to be a drunk driver or somebody just going really fast going about 50 or something like that blows through the red light, blows right behind me. And I remember that at a certain point, I guess instinctually or something, I gassed it. Like I went faster and I instinctually p pulled myself out of it. And uh it kind of clicked in my head like I I want to live. Like I want to be alive. I want to exist in this world. And with or without her, I'm still here. And uh after that I got to a point where it was just like I need to focus on making my life better and focus on you know just kind of maintaining a a degree of okay. According to everyone around John at the time he was displaying more than a degree of okay. He was flourishing without a care in the world. Caitlyn's family was reportedly devastated that Jon cut contact with them right around the time her body was discovered. And prior to that, he didn't take part in many of the searches or efforts to find her. Of course, he has a totally logical excuse, well, explanation for that. Did you go on any searches with them? I went on some search parties. I did the first few like a whole I I did every one I could and then I went um and then Texas Equa Search came in and I started doing those and then they started telling me that I couldn't because I I'm sorry. Give me a second. That's fine. Because if I found anything then then it would be horrible and they didn't want me to do that. So they suggested that I that I stop searching. I didn't feel comfortable putting up the flyers because I can't I had a lot of trouble. Every time I saw her picture, I would just cry because I missed her so much and I couldn't do the flyers. So, I had to do something. I'm sorry, man. That's fine. Let's move up. You heard that? You heard that? that uh her body was found. What What was going through your mind then? Um I didn't want to cry in front of the the ironically in front of the police officers. So I tried to keep it keep myself but I was with my mom when they told me. So I confided in my mom more than anybody. So I went to her and I I fell apart again. And um few days later I fell apart in front of Kayla and I did not want to do that. Mhm. And and by falling apart I mean I literally fall to my knees and I can't move. I can't feel. So I So I I just I focused on myself. I I couldn't I know that sounds selfish. I don't know. I I feel really bad about that, but I focused on myself and I tried to make myself better so that I could be okay. And I'm sorry, man. That's fine. That's fine. Have you been over to the where she was found? No, I don't want to go there. I don't want to I didn't want to even acknowledge the day she went missing this year because I don't want to remember her for that. I don't want to I don't want to go to that place and be like, "Oh, this is where she died. That's wonderful." Like, why would I want to see that? Why would I care about that? Like, I just I just want to remember her birthday and I want to remember good things. I don't want to remember that. I don't want to know anything about that except for the fact that whoever did this is not here. that whoever did this is either dead or in jail or do you know where are you familiar with the area where they found her? My dad has property um in Laurel which you can take cuz I I know that it's on 129 or off 129 or something. 121. 121. Okay. That's the one that leads you like to Batesville and stuff, right? Or not Batesville but uh um starts with B. Batesville. Is it is Batesville? Okay. Yeah. And my dad would go that way occasionally, but usually, you know, because he lives in Ross, he takes a totally different way. But I do know and my dog was bought right off that road um by a a family. Their last name is Masters. What John is leaving out here is that to access his father's property, you have to turn onto a road that runs perpendicular to where Caitlyn's body was found. And though he tries to brush it off as though he hardly ever goes there, his friends repeatedly told police that they all went there frequently to smoke and party unsupervised. Would you be interested in as far as your involvement or I should say participation with regard to an investigation to once and for all be done with it? What do you mean? Well, I'm not asking you to erase your memories of your someone that you loved, but I'm asking you, you're here today as a result of police investigating something. You ready to be done with that? I would like the person who did this to be caught. That is what I want. I don't want to just be done like I like I do. There's a part of me that, you know, just like, I just don't want to come here anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to talk about this situation anymore, but this is what I have to do to find out who did this. And this is important to me, and that's why I'm here. That's why I'm talking to you guys. I I know from before what these are like, what these conversations are like. I know what I have to go through for this And I'm I'm sorry, part of my language. Don't worry about But I'm I'm here and I'm doing this and I'm talking to you guys about this and I'm taking all all this in. Because I need to find out who did this so that I can actually go out and live a life. I know you've taken a polygraph before. Yeah. And I really would prefer not to. Okay. Let me things are a little bit different, okay, with them. Like I said, this was this was the the disappearance when and I can tell you we do it ourselves. We won't we don't send you to the FBI. We do it our They came here. I mean, right. But I mean, and they did it two more times. I've been through it three times, man. I really I think what you did take was a a voice analysis. Two of them were a voice stress analysis. One of them was a polygraph. And I'm going to be completely upfront with you. They're And the reason why I believe that they're is because they kept telling me that I was being dishonest and I sat there and told them the truth. And I'm not going to go through that again, man. I'm not going to do that. I'm telling you everything that I know and I'm telling you that this is the truth and that thing does not tell you what the truth is. I I have you know the whole the whole storyline that I told you and the fact that it was it's cooperated call all the people involved all of it is cooporated. This is what I did. you like they looked at my computer and looked to see if I was watching shows. I'm assuming they, you know, looked at my records. They looked into everything. Like the whole point was to find out what I was doing at that time. And I'm here to tell you what I was doing at that time. That story is not going to change. Those those words are not going to change. I'm not going to say anything different. I don't I don't have anything different. I'm telling you the exact series of events that occurred. Again, the polygraph does not tell you anything. It's not going to give you anything. It's not going to help you with this investigation because it has already said that I was being dishonest. I I felt I felt defeated. I felt like I kept telling them everything that I know and they just kept coming at me with, "Well, we know it was a mistake, so you can just go ahead and fess up now." Like, "No, no, I didn't do anything to her. I I would never." Okay. I was with her for 6 years of my life, my entire life. Like, that was that was my my adult beginning of my adult life. And it went away like that. And it was taken from me. I did not do anything. I did not touch her. I would never hurt her. I would never physically do anything to give her pain. an accident or otherwise, I would not be here had it not been for this. Understand something. You don't need to be defensive right now. I'm currently being defensive because I don't want to do this polygraph so bad. Let me say let me say this to you. For the next 30 minutes, John complains about the uselessness of polygraph tests and gossips about the shifting family dynamics. After Caitlyn's death, at the end, with nothing to hold him on, officers are left with nothing to give him but a card and offer to talk again when he's ready. John has some parting words for the officers. If you guys want to go through anything, if you need anything else, and you know, I'm sorry for bringing it up again, but anything else other than this polygraph thing, I I'll give you whatever you need. And I, you know, like I said, keep doing, keep digging. And, you know, maybe when I'm in my job and I don't have to be so nervous about that on top of this, on top of that, on top of this, maybe I'll feel more comfortable coming in doing a polygraph. But, like I said, at this particular moment, I'm just not not comfortable with it. John's interrogations in 2015 and 2016 didn't warrant any new information or changes in his story, just more frustration. behind the scenes. However, law enforcement wasn't ready to give up. In 2023, John volunteered to come in for questioning. He should have volunteered to get a lawyer instead. The date today is February 15th, 2023, approximately 1:26 p.m. in the afternoon. Um, investigator Paul Newton and investigator Mike Regal. We are sitting here with John Carter. Uh John uh voluntary voluntarily came in this afternoon to speak with us again. John, how you been doing? Seen you out to the pumpkin fest like I was seen you demonstrating how blow glass. Yeah, I was just at work. Was you? Yeah. What you do full time now? Yeah. Sound like fun. Well, I think I've seen one of your other videos. That was one of your um your passions. you wanted to start was more creative and it was something that kind of led you was the glass blowing. Absolutely. John's not just a professional at blowing glass. As you're about to see, the man's real passion is blowing smoke or trying to at least. Like I told you over the phone, there's just a few things we want to go with you with. Uh like I said, this investigation is coming to a close on the prosecutor side of it. You know, I know you know the Fairfield PD was investigating it. The sheriff's office investigated it. I think me and you have talked once before and um there's just a few things that I still want to get your um your thoughts and your feelings on a few things. Um I know we're kind of texting your memory. It's going to be almost 12 years here shortly, but there again um we're not trying to drudge up any bad and that's that's really all this is to me. like like and I'm not saying that it's all that you're doing is it's just that like that's kind of my tension right now. It's just like coming back again, right? But there's times where, you know, I think I have a better I have a better handle now on, you know, that talked to um some some people who were in your I guess your core group of people and uh you told me some um I asked each person gave me a story about Gay and each one had a different story that was something it was how she touched their lives, which was really kind of cool because each person told me something that no one else knew, right? which was kind of cool. Yeah, it really was. Now I have a better think a better perspective of how she was as a person. Okay, that being said, um let's go back just briefly to you at the at the festival that night, you and Kevin on that Friday night. Okay, you guys go to the festival. um your thoughts on you and in prior I'm gonna go back and forth when it comes to some of the statements you gave in the past. Um you still feel in your thoughts and your feelings deep down you still feel that um person who would who who had done this was an unknown person um maybe that was kind of like you said stalking or I think your words were suspicious person that may have back in the day. Honestly, yeah, I know because I can't I can't wrap my head around it being something really. That's really what we're not here to Yeah, I know. And and you got to understand like that's why this is all just like reminding me, right? And it's a lot. Sorry, dude. Don't don't you don't need no need don't need to apologize. It really is. It's a traumatic experience. Yeah. I mean, you've been through a lot. You you you and your whole family. her and don't get me wrong her. She asked, you know, your whole It was her that died. It was her. Yeah. Was it me and I feel guilty like she died? She doesn't get to live for her life anymore. It's not fair. No. No, it's not. It's not. You know, that's one thing I've gotten from everybody who I've talked to and I I guess I have a better understanding of Caitlyn was um she lit up everybody's life for the positive and she is no longer here to do that anymore. Like I said, like I told you over the phone, it would be different if she'd had a car accident. You can kind of move on because she was an accident. This here was um this was purposeful. don't have it on top of all of it. It just ropes me in. I am the statistic. Everyone looks at me and I am the statistic. So, I can't do anything about it. Everyone's already accusing me before I even look at Yeah. before they've even met me or know me, before they even have heard the truth or what the truth actually is. And I'd love that peace of mind. I'd love to know the truth. I'd love to find out what happened. There's one there's there's thing there's something that you have to have in your own mind though is that that being said people people going to have their thoughts but um you know you're not being charged anywhere only we're doing is asking questions at any point in time you get walk out that we're glad we're glad I know that you're going through there's a moment there's a moment I'm all I realized that I was not gay Tell Roger you found that she's missing. And there was a moment where I felt I couldn't hold myself up because it was lost overwhelming. Tremendously sad and and to a point where it was so tremendously overwhelming that it was unforgettable. And whenever I have this, whenever we do this, it brings that moment in. It doesn't matter what you say, it doesn't matter what you do. It brings me to this moment where I am in front of her house, not knowing where she is or what I can do to help her or keep her here and figure out where to go to find her and bring her home. And it was I had nowhere else to go, no one else to call, no other thoughts, no other opinions. No one else was guiding me. No one was telling me what to do. And even now, I have no one to tell me what to do, what to say. There's no there's no book. There's no script for this brother. There isn't. There's no script for you to say, "John, this is what you're supposed to do. This is how you're supposed to feel. Listen, I'm currently being told by my wife that I should bring a lawyer to these things, that I should do those things. I'm not doing that because I don't think, first of all, I feel like I've already myself if I if it came down to me needing a lawyer, I've already been here enough without one that it really doesn't matter what I say. I also know for a fact that I don't have anything that I can say that's going to make it seem like I did something except for obviously the polygraph situation which I don't fully understand and I don't I don't get why that happened or why it's like that but beyond that like I don't have anything I can say I don't have anything I can do or make you think that I did something because there is nothing there. There's nothing and I just Let me answer you a question. That being said, you feel I think I nearly answered this. You want me to keep looking? I told you that that question. I told you this two years ago. It's been two years since me and you talking. I told you I was gonna keep looking. Yes. And where we at? Still looking. Yes. Keep going. Yes. Don't stop. I'm not. I'm looking you in the eyes just like I did last time. Do it. I am. That's what I'm here for. I told you never stop. That's one thing about me. I I I can't I'm too stupid to stop and get the right. That's why that's why I'm asking you guys I'm asking you to ask questions about because there's some things only you know. Okay. Jon's enthusiasm for the detective to keep looking and not stop seems to have come to an abrupt stop the second the conversation turns toward his involvement. Detectives revisit his repeated claims that he searched for Caitlyn's phone when he was looking for her, including inside her car. But there's something not quite right that detectives are eager to point out to him. If you can remember and in big detail as possible, strike me when you get to her car. You put the keys. You put the key and you unlock your car. Or if it's a key fob, you unlock your car. What did you do? Look, look. Just looking for a look. I probably opened your driver's side door. Okay. Did you go to the back of the car any No, I really don't think so, but I may have like opened it and looked, but or maybe I I don't remember. Okay. I really don't remember. Okay. I'm sorry, man. Just remember you apologize. We're here. We're here for the truth. But I want to get it. I want to give you the truth. I want to give you what I remember. I want you to Can I show you? Yes. Okay. I want you to tell me. These are these will be pictures of her car from the inside. Now, these are photographs of this. Okay. Now I'm just these are tell me about looks like her car to you. Yeah. Okay. You know you guys are young. She's she's going to school work two jobs. You know this is that's the chance of the outside of the car. Okay. Now here's my question to you. Caitlyn was about what? 5 foot three. Mhm. About 130 lbs. Maybe. Mhm. Okay. What do you notice about this little girl? That is far back. Yeah. Maybe I moved him when I was looking for the phone to look under the seat, but I'm I don't know. I really don't. Okay. Well, look look at both seats. Look at this is the passenger. They're both back. So maybe probably like if I move this one then move that one and then move the boat back to look around. It's very possible. Well my question is that you know I mean would you have moved those seats because I I talked to the investigator who took these photographs and we actually talked to the tow truck driver. He said we didn't we all thing the tow truck driver said he goes we pulled up onto the back we backed it up. We drug it up on the skid or the you know the back to the roll back and we stuck it in the garage and and that was that. He goes, "So, my question is this. Bus seat's been moved back. That is that alarming to you?" That is, "Yeah, that's weird. That's very weird. This is the back seat where I'm showing you here. That's I mean, she's she can't reach those pedals from there." No, probably not. I would say no. I mean that that's that's a big question. That's like who in the hell's our car besides who the hell is our car besides her? But I I definitely did not move or drive the car. I mean now now you see why we move on these this is this is trouble. That's strange. It is very strange. But like I said, I didn't move or drive the car at all. I was going to ask you mentioned earlier earlier about um and I'm sorry again I not worked on this case like Paul so I don't you mentioned that you and Caitlyn there was some tension or something that it was it wasn't like a fight not at all. Um what it really came down to was um Caitlyn was a little bit frustrated that I wanted to keep my night going. Okay. While she just went to bed, okay, but I basically kind of treated it like she'll get up. Okay. You know, and that that was detention realistically. It was just just I was just like So it wasn't like a argument. No, like I said, she was just disappointed that she had to be doing school stuff and here I go hanging out with friends. And now, how did the the documents thing? How did that I basically just got there and was like, this is all Caitlyn's stuff and you know, and they had a fire pit in the back, but it was like slightly raining, but I was just like, I'm burning it. I just burnt it. I mean, that's really what it came down to. I see. She gave those to you before she before you left. Again, the tension was there, but she's handing me this stuff. We're still going to Colorado. There is no change there. Okay. You know, like everything is still exactly as it everything went pretty much. Yeah. Then there's another discrepancy. At the time that Caitlyn would have been killed, John claims to have been watching three episodes of White Collar. But when detectives searched his computer history, they noticed something peculiar. So, I did find something interesting. So, the the there's two three episodes three episodes of White Card. Um, season two, episode 12, episode 13, episode 14. You said they're about 45 minutes a piece, something like that. Okay. Then later in the day, I guess after you've gotten up, uh, you look at the plot summaries for the same. It's on your computer. I mean, I don't I don't know why I didn't look up any plot summaries. Yeah. I mean, so later in the day, um, sorry, I'm converting this from the military time, but about 3:17, you look at the plot summary for episode 13, which is the one that you watched the night before, which just like maybe I don't I don't remember doing that. Did I look it up on IMDb? Like I don't I don't normally do that. So I don't know why. Yeah. There's So there is a synopsis basic plot summary uh for episode 13. Okay. And then a plot summary for episode 14. Um and that bothered me. I'll be honest. That kind of bothered me a little bit because uh in some of your viewing it kind of made sense because like maybe you're about to watch episode 10. I'm talking about like before like a few days before. So you looked at a plot summary for episode 9. That kind of makes sense. We understand that. What happened? But it was weird to me that you would look at like a synopsis for something you just watched a few hours ago. Yeah. I don't remember doing that. I didn't do that. I slept. I mean, it cooperatingly slept. You can ask my mom. I was asleep. Well, I I can tell you this. Part of your phone. You made a phone call and I believe it was 2:24 that John Papa again. You call Papa John's. You also uh text messaged Nate. Yeah. And I think you also text. Okay. And it was all to Right. And this would have been at about 3:30 or 3:20 somewhere around there. And uh I'll be honest, John, it just it it was odd to me because I don't normally would look at summary for something that I just watched a few hours before. Yeah. I again don't know why it pulled up a plot summary, but it could be from me just like clicking back, you know, like exiting out of things, going back or or something like that. I mean, that could have easily been, but I don't I don't generally look at plot summaries even days later. I just watch the previously on thing, which okay, those have. So, all of those episodes have previously on white collar. So, I don't look up plots. I don't know why that was on, but maybe again it's because I had clicked back on it. Maybe there is a missing point where I did like look at my computer, talk to people. I I really don't know. And I'm honestly, you know, at a certain point, I just don't have an answer for I just don't have an answer for you. Isn't the get out of jail free card that Jon is hoping it is. It's more like one of these. To detectives, John, looking up the plot summary seems like someone trying to plan ahead for being asked questions about the show. This is but this is the white collar episodes that you were talking about. Um so and and this is at 3:00 a.m. or No, this is uh so this is in the morning. So this would be about the computer shows activity at about you know 139 1:40 and then you watch some episodes of White H. Okay. You tell me they're about 45 minutes a piece. Okay. So you can see there's like time gas and then then there's like breaking activity and then again yes like you said there's whatever you got up probably looked at whatever and then sprinkled in there are like these plot summaries. Okay. So if I was waking up, I probably looked at and those were probably part of the like either I was clicking out of something or I was um like going through stuff. I mean, it could have just simply have been an accidental click. It could have been anything, but I wasn't reading clocks. Okay. They were just either I was obviously watching it the night before. I got on it the next day and these things were probably either still up on my computer and I moved around things to get to what I was doing there or what. I don't I don't know, but I didn't look at it. You didn't need a break. No, I mean I do eventually got to go back to works. Okay, we'll try to hurry this up. Um, go back to her your guys' cell phones just briefly. Uh, her phone goes goes dark at 12:06, never comes back on. Your cell phone doesn't go dark. What we call we call dark, we call it goes inactivity at 12:04 and there's no activity for the next 14 to 15 hours. Is that unusual for you to No. No. I don't like sometime especially at that hour there's no one texting. Okay. There's no one and I don't look at my phone especially at that time. I don't even know if I had a Facebook yet. Like I didn't really that often unless I got a text or I got something. We had someone look at the phone numbers back in the past and he said that was unusual to be receiving a text. Well, I mean there again even you at your own mission saying you thought you sent a text at 4. So it was not unusual. It was unusual for me to be that many hours without any messages or phone calls or I mean I was already at the friend's house that I planned on being at and Caitlyn was in bed as far as I know. Have you talked to any of your buddies about what we talked to them about? What we talked to them about maybe like mad and I talked to Matt a little bit but talked to him then he go to your party the documents from the appointment and you come back to we have information that this is from two different people that I'll tell you the story. Two people are walking down the street and at approximately what they say is 1:30, 2:00 in the morning. They see or they hear they hear two cars coming and they are juveniles at the time and um they're scared to death because they are juveniles. You know how fair how Fairfield PD is with juveniles at that time? It's late night and they see two cars pull up and um they hike they hide behind a tree greens that were in there. They see two cars pull up and two cars lights are blacked out. Mhm. and they see a red Ford Focus pull to the driveway at your residence, right? And that was your address at time and they see a darker blue four-door sedan right behind the Ford Focus. The red port or focus pulls into the driver. Garage door opens up. Uh they see the car pull into the garage. Dash door shuts. The blue car stays on the street. Okay. There's a problem. Okay. Okay. Let me finish the story then. Um they um blue car stays out stays on the street between five and 15 minutes later pulls back open. Car pulls back out. Both cars are still blacked out and they go back the same way they come coming down west towards a cow. You know the west side comes down towards your house and they do they see the two cars. Mhm. Red car pulls out. Blue car turns around and they go the same way. They come back out heading back towards west side of heading towards the what? River Road. Okay. Same story they they told they told they were heading they were going to a party that night. They were going to a party go meet some girls and they said they are positive what they seem that night. Mhm. Now they I can't Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no. You go ahead. I told you I told you the gest of the story. Yeah. Yeah. I I have my story. That's very That's what happened when I did. Um I don't park in my garage. I parked in the driveway every night. Um and didn't have anything to do with that. It'd be hard for this sighting to be more damning. Firstly, the kids who reported this actually reported it in 2013, soon after Caitlyn's body was discovered. The realization that they may be the keys to solving an actual homicide was the only thing that made them fess up to the police and worse, their parents, about sneaking out of the house on the night in question. Both of the teens, when interviewed separately, told matching stories, even down to the color and model of the cars involved. They witness the cars with their lights fully off drive toward Caitlyn's home, then return and sneak into John's garage once more with their lights fully off. That doesn't sound like someone watching a crime show to me. It sounds like someone living it. And they and they've got a third person backing them up that he took them to the party and picked them up in close proximity to your house. The third person. They were like, "Oh that was that was weird." because they thought they were going to get busted by Fairfield Police Department when in doubt it was a red Ford Focus and a blue four-door sedan. I have anything for you. That's not I did and where I was I was at home. They were pretty certain about that. The time doesn't match up with you. I mean it's uh like you said the you know that time when I was showing you um the time that these people say that you arrived is is consistent. Um I didn't go anywhere. So you got stayed at home. I got home and I stayed home. And in fact, my stepdad uh would wake up ridiculously early to do work and he got up pretty early that morning to do work and my car was there in the driveway. Steve and my mom both parked in the garage and they were both both of their cars were in there. I never parked in my garage. So that story is already flawed on top of the fact that none of that happened. None of it. I went home. I got inside. I watched my shows. I did. I laid down. Went to bed. I think that that is pretty much what happened as far as I can remember it at this point in this whole situation. And uh I don't have you feel free to bring the witnesses in. I don't know what to tell you. There's no more I can prove to you. They they gave statements. They gave statements back. This is not something. Okay. It really isn't. This is they did their statements um back in the day shortly after his body was found because they didn't put two two together until like That's what we seen that night. Okay. But I don't know. I don't know what they saw or who I can't tell you. It was a blue stand. That could be one of your friends was driving. Uh, as far as I know, there was Jeff who drove a blue Ford Focus, but yeah. Nobody else? No. And I didn't leave after I went home. You were home that whole time in the morning. Uh after the party of the party, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. You're pretty sure, right? Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, obviously it's been years down the line. Understand that, but I didn't leave. I didn't like go drive my car somewhere. No. Once more, John has decided that telling the police no and I can't tell you is his best defense. But what happens when a witness contradicting his statements isn't a stranger, but a close friend? Jeff said he was seeing you guys at the festival. I guess he showed up after that. You I guess you heard it there for the the big calling at night. I wanted to try it. Um, and this is Jeff talking. He said hi to you. He he said he seemed kind of out of sorts and he said u I guess he said hi to you and you didn't say hi back which is unusual Jeff you guys I think you said that group of guys and that you didn't say hi to him he gave us you can tell there's something wrong between you and he said she was she was frustrated I to the point dude she says to the point he says to the point dude that it looked like they were going to break up and I was like damn That's That's pretty I mean I know it was some people upset that it was pension that night to the point of you guys breaking up. No. No. So wasn't having any second thoughts about moving. Not that I'm aware of. No. Not that she had made me aware of it. Okay. So as far as like anything like that, if if she felt that way or if it seemed that way to him, that's all fine. But I was his observation. Yeah. I was not aware of that kind of tension. Caitlyn, I remember, was like already just kind of tense and frustrated with all of that. Again, a lot to do with her getting ready for school to be over, for us getting ready to move. And there was just a lot of like things building up around that and just But the plan was still the same as far as I knew. Everything was exactly the way it was supposed to be going. at that particular time. Right. So did Caitlyn get frustrated with I mean you're now like glass blower and you know seem to found her way and life and stuff but at the time I think you were kind of bounc around and and working as and she seemed to be I mean just my limited experience she seemed to be really motivated very artistic very driven working. Yeah, I think she was probably worried that I wasn't going anywhere or doing anything, but at the same time, like I had I still had drive, still had an ability to to get things done. And for the most part, while she was in college, I was helping her through a lot of that stuff. Again, her dad paid for a lot of her groceries and stuff, but like I was a part of her life. I helped her through college. It wasn't just like I worked off and it kept working. And it wasn't just the money for me, it was for us. And she knew that. Um, yeah, forgive me. I know I'm going over things I know you've probably gone over, but your phone also was something that I know was examined back then. Um, you deleted text messages between you and Kayla. What was that? That was that was an utter and complete horrific accident. The idea was again not great with computers. Not at all. Um and what I had done, the way that the phone worked, I went to just delete a few messages because it said it was going to start deleting all of my messages if I didn't delete some so that I could receive messages. I've been receiving massive amounts of messages about Caitlyn, about everything. So, as those started coming in, I started worrying that Caitlyn's messages would start to get deleted. So, I went through and carefully tried to select each one. And then when I pushed the delete button, it deleted all of them except for ones that seemed to be like pocket saved or something. I had like a handful of ones left behind, but it almost deleted every other one. Like, and I don't know why, but I had given the phone. They had all of the information. I had not deleted it before I gave it to them the first time. And I really didn't mean to do that. And I know what it looks like. Yeah. And let's I mean, I'll be honest, I'm aware I'm aware of that. There's nothing I can do about that. It was a complete and utter accident. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean it but I mean again not knowing the case as well as Paul. I mean that was one of the things that stuck out to me. I understand that. But at the same time like I said they had the phone. There was nothing deleted when they originally had my phone the first time they took it. That was literally that day. They had my phone for hours and they didn't copy anything. I didn't make that mistake. I made the mistake of accidentally deleting it before they could make a decision to copy everything. Okay. And it was an accident to that you deleted. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I did want to go back and read them. I did want to see them. I had messages from her going way back. So did you I mean you accidentally deleted your whole everything. Everything but the ones that pocket dialed saved. I'm telling you, every message was deleted. And then then they wanted to come to me and say, "Well, why weren't these messages deleted?" I can't explain why those got saved. I don't know why, but almost every other message I had was gone. I had like, you know how it shows the whole screen of messages? I had this many messages at the top of my screen, right? A lot of them got deleted and I did not do that on purpose. John claims that almost all of the texts between him and Caitlyn were deleted, but that's not even close to the truth. Upon review, police realized that the only messages that the two exchanged in the few hours before Caitlyn's death had been deleted, which leads many to believe that in those few hours, there was an explosive argument or even a breakup. According to several of Caitlyn's close friends, she wanted to end her engagement to Jon, but she felt trapped. She stated on multiple occasions that she was no longer attracted to Jon, that his substance use was a turnoff, and that she felt they had different aspirations. She was also expressing extreme doubts about moving to Colorado with him, something he has tried to seem so confident in throughout 12 years of questioning. Is there anything else? Couple more things when it comes to I know about hard people on that route to danceful people. Yeah. And like the group of people mean that was probably your special place that special place for you your friends. I mean I mean it was fun to go out there but that's because it was a lack of supervision. was the only reason we went out there. Nobody was there to watch us smoke. You can understand why that I mean obviously you know where Caitlyn's remains for I'm aware of it. Yeah. Um I mean it's out there in Indiana. It also seems to me again Paul knows this case a lot better than me. Uh, I think the reason why he's asked you about this circle of friends is it it doesn't seem that there would be a lot of possibilities of of of this type of crime, you know, uh, outside of like immediate friends, outside of of a small group of people. And then the body is found in Indiana. Um, that doesn't seem like that would be some random random person. I will tell you this, John. All all your core group friends I've talked to, I mean, all said the same thing. Kaitlin's not open door. So, I mean, the whole the whole Yeah. I don't know. You know, I don't know. That's why you asked me my speculation. I told you I don't know. That's what I mean. I always wanted to know how you felt this because sometimes hindsight's 2020. You know, it's been 12 years. I just feel But what you're asking me is not just do I think that somebody I know killed her. You're asking me, do I think my friends killed her? Yeah. And how do I answer that? Truthfully, I mean like I don't know. I want to know what John Have you looked into John who recently killed himself? Because I've always wondered about him and I don't feel like anybody's ever really done. I don't understand why and I don't understand a lot. But I don't know and I don't know who to point a finger at. I've dug, trust me. But I mean, how do I get that answer? How do I come to that conclusion? Is it a feeling? I don't know. I I'll take it. I think a feeling because you are the the only feeling I I've had one feel I have a feeling about Johnny some reason. I don't know why. I've had a feeling about everyone at one point or another. Yeah, understandable. And the finger has been pointed to everyone. Sometimes, but that's the other thing. But that's the other thing. I don't I don't have an exact answer. You ask me what my thoughts are. I mean that I don't I don't know. Thoughts mean feeling. That mean I know I'm giving everything thoughts one thing. something else. Yeah, I can tell you precisely why John has a feeling about the person he spontaneously named. Because just prior to this interrogation, the innocent person that he pointed the finger at tragically passed away. The only thing worse than blaming someone else for your crime is blaming a person who can't defend themsself. Though, truthfully, John's not doing a great job of that either. And maybe again, maybe I'm I'm blurry on my morning before I left for work, but because even some things, but I didn't go anywhere. I didn't go do anything and I had nothing to do with Caitlyn going missing or not being that that's what I can tell. Well, I mean, she did go missing, but then found, so I mean, it's it's worse than just missing. I had nothing to do with her. Do you Do you need me to say that? Because I did not do anything to her, to kill her. I think that's the first time I've ever heard you say that. I did not kill her. I did not hurt her. I did not take her. I did not do anything to to threaten her life. I did not have an accident. And to tell you the truth, if ever there were an accident, I would never be able to hold all of that in. I would not be able to look you in the eye right now. And I can tell you that 100%. I did not do anything to hurt that one. I loved her and I had a life plan for her and I was not about to lose that. And the fact that I even managed to get to this part of my life, what I can do now is something I never thought I could do. I am sorry for the indiscreances and this and the things that you're seeing with my computer, with the film, with the witnesses who apparently saw me leave a garage that I don't park in. But I can't give you what you see blind. I can see why you're asking the questions as much as I can see why you're asking the questions because you have to cover everything, but what I am telling you is what I know to be true. Right. 100%. Right. Well, and I think we've talked about the stuff that I've looked at that I'm like, "Oh, that dude, do you feel like I may have even helped in your understanding of it or do you still feel totally lost?" I think it No, I don't think I'm totally lost. I think you've gone over and given me an explanation, your explanation. So, I mean, and and you helped me understand what I'm seeing. Um, I mean, the text messages are still bothering me, but you've given me an answer. Yes. You've given me an answer with that. Okay. So, I I you know, I don't I mean, unless you're not telling me everything, then then the answer is is what it is, right? I think I I'm glad that you've been cooperative. glad you come in and talked with us. Well, and I there's a lot of things that I I'm sure you wish I wish probably wish you had those text messages so you could say, "Look, Mike, right here. Here, here they all are. I would totally give them to you." Basically, I would really prefer not to have to do this anymore. Now, I understand if there's sort of indictment, you're going to have to go to court um or something of that nature. Is that likely? Like I told you on the phone, um I think the prosecutor's office, we we have I'm a deputy sheriff. I remember you saying that that you you would put it in and then they might not do anything for because grand juries do what grand juries do. What they do is we we we present everything we have to do and it's basically to get it because none of this is there's not even a case number for this. The prosecutor's office So, we get it on the record because if somebody does come in part time, there's no record of You see what I'm saying? We get it on the record. Let the grand jury hear all the testimonies that we have and they will either indict or they do it or they'll kick it back or they'll do they won't indict nothing. We'll call what's called no bill which is meaning the case is still pending till further investigations are done. So, that's what happens. Okay. So, that's that's basically that's where we're at with this. Like I was telling your uh telling your your fiance or your wife is that um uh reason why I was kind of pushing for this because I talked to all your friends. I went one last time talk to you for this very reason we did what we here today. I greatly appreciate it but I have to write up my report of what we found and these last questions that we have and basically and I'll write it in my report. I will submit this to the prosecutor u and we will go he will go from there he will say either he doesn't have to present this to the grand jur he can say yes no or continue re research so he's got he has the he's the prosecutor oh and I'm I'm going to say this final this point um you may find discrepancy but you will not find any evidence and I can promise you that because I was not involved in Mary's death in any way. I just want to make sure that is or the disposal of her body or the disposal of her body or anything to do with her disappearance or anything surrounding the incident that we are discussing today. The only thing I had to do with it was that I loved her and I was in a relationship with her and that was it. that we were connected. That's it. And beyond that, there's nothing else to find out. And that's what I I really want you to be clear on that because I can promise you, you're not going to call me in here or you're not going to have a grand jury bring me in because of evidence existing. I can promise you, John, they are. On March 22nd, 2023, Jon was brought back in on a grand jury indictment as a result of overwhelming circumstantial evidence. As you're about to see, he really, really didn't believe that was going to be possible. And he is not happy about it. You okay? Yeah. Comfortable? Yeah. Is it started? Yeah, I think so. He I think Steve started. Yep. Okay, John. Yep. Before we get started, we have to read your reminder warnings. Okay. Okay. So, I think Mr. Regal here. You met Mr. Regal before? Yes. So, John, hold me one. So, he can read one as he read as he's Yeah. You got one here somewhere. Take that one. And I'm going to read the same thing to you. Okay. You got one right there for you. They read his Miranda rights. We've heard them a few times. So, let's get to the good stuff, like how flatout annoyed John is to be here. Knowing these rights, do you wish to talk to me without having a lawyer present? For the time being, yes. Okay. All right. For the time being. Okay. What's happening? Um, this is what we call I think you would and I know you are probably a a Avengers fan, wasn't you? This is what we call the endg game. The end game is um we went to a grand jury. You know, your mom testified before the grand jury because we want her to have her say and input in that grand jury that proceeding and the grand jury has u indicted you. Why they not? Because they don't they feel that there's enough probable cause that this case proceed further to the common police court. Okay. So they believe um they have permission that we had and u they you've been indicted and for what? Murder. I Okay, but what evidence? There's nothing. There's you're you're thinking of there's evidence has got to be uh fingerprints. Um no, I mean I mean there's there's things called circumstantial evidence. Okay. And there's a lot of And I mean, you've already talked about the circumstantial evidence, the red flags. That's circumstantial evidence. Okay. But I have nothing to do with her death or disappearance or any of that. So, that being said, that being said, okay, I'm listening. We are we are at the point in time now to where this is where uh you need to come clean with what everything happened that night because here's here's the thing, dude. Dude, I'm telling you the whole your the whole stories that you've been giving the the inconsistent stories you've been giving them being the police department, the media, and everybody else since 2011 has come to a point now to where no one's believing the story. Okay. The whole story about the the unknown suspect or individual who was at the the uh at the the festival following you and Caitlin to her house, I no one's believing that. Okay. They didn't believe it when when when you first come out with it. Okay. But that was just like a thought. I mean, like you asked me my theories and I gave you my thought, but I don't You told No. No. No. No one asked you that question. That's the question you gave to the 911 operator day one. Okay. Okay. So, that I thought I thought maybe that could be a possibility, but I'm not saying that's my story. I don't know what the happened. I have no idea what happened. That's not a story I gave you as an excuse or any other thing than just there could have been any reason. And I thought maybe that would be the most likely scenario because it seems unbelievable to me that anyone I know would do that to her. Okay. But I'm not I'm not I haven't made any lies. I haven't told you anything that didn't happen. So maybe my stories are different sometimes here and there. Sometimes John, but but there's you have your story has evolved constantly over the past almost 12 years because it's been 12 years. Yeah, but your story is not this. It's never the same story twice. That's the best part about all this. It's never the same story twice. What are you talking about? What part is inconsistent or different? You should you you filled out. Do you remember filling out a a a form early on like Yeah. Just writing down everything that writing down everything. You talked about the events of that day and it's like tell us about Caitlyn and you wrote she is kind. She has a snaggle tooth. You remember that form that was vaguely vaguely. So you wrote down a whole sequence of events uh from the day before and the day after the um in August and it and you have events that just like they couldn't have occurred like they couldn't have occurred like you know about your mom coming back from David's bridal and you had all of these other things happening and then you called the police like John like I read through it and I went through it and I read read it and went back over it and this is this is right after it happened. Okay. Can I I I say what you got to say, brother. I don't I don't have anything new to tell you. So, if we're just going to sit here and question me or question or expect or expect me to let me get this out to you, okay, let me let me tell you what this this is where this is where I'm going to tell you nothing to do with her death or disappearance. And that's really right now. as it right now. Okay. If you want to tell us it what really happened that night, I'm willing to listen. The prosecutor, the prosecutor is willing to listen. No, but we don't want to hear no more of this nonsense of but this un this this unknown suspect following you guys. I'm not giving you that. Okay, that's not that's the unknown suspect following me thing. Okay, fine. What I have been telling you and what I've been trying to say is I have no clue what happened to her. What I what I did what I said, "Okay, then then we're done. I'm fine. I'm going to need I'm going to need to get my lawyer." Yes, please. Okay. Yes. Because you'll be Can I please have a full phone call? Yes. When you get to the jail. All right. Um John, it's 4:58 p.m. Okay. Okay, I'm going to put down 458. Our attorney requested. I can't believe this. Well, you need to believe it because it's happening right now. Well, I mean, but what you're doing is like it's literally No, what you what has happened, what has transpired is just it's unbelievable because I really have nothing to do with any of this with what you're what you're accusing me of. I have nothing to do with it. John, look, I didn't I didn't have He's invoked. Yes. I look you you've invoked your rights, okay, at this point. So, we really can't go any further. Understand? Fine. Okay. So, I'm writing it down at 4:58 p.m. And should we stop the interview at this point? Yes. Yeah. John's trial proved to be one of the most dramatic that the state had seen in years. Originally charged with first-degree murder, he pleaded down to involuntary manslaughter in exchange for admitting his guilt. While his defense team begged for him to receive probation, the judge remained resolute, saying that Jon showed no remorse for his role in Caitlyn's death. As a result, he imposed the maximum penalty, 3 years behind bars.