You don't know a lot about DNA, do you? I don't. I can care less about DNA. We're in a bind here. Your DNA is matching what we found on her under her fingernails. I don't know how my DNA was on under her fingernail. This is Mo Maurice Gibbs. For the past 15 years, Mo has committed crime after crime after crime despite being a corrections officer. But this time, there is no getting away. No matter how much he tries to lie. People make mistakes, Mom. I didn't make the mistakes. the polygraph. I can I can dismiss that. The DNA, I can't. I'm only doing this because you're a fellow law enforcement person. You need to cut your losses here. At 12:23 p.m. on September 13th, 2006, Mindy Morgan Stern logged off her computer at Valley City State University, North Dakota, and left campus to rest at her nearby apartment in the Victory Park complex. That would be the last time anyone heard from her. Shortly after 12:30 p.m., Mindy went completely radio silent as friends and family tried to reach her. Initially, no one thought much of it. But 8 hours later, at 8:49 p.m., her close friends Tony and Danielle became alarmed and drove to her apartment only to discover a horrifying scene. Mindy was laying motionless on the floor, surrounded by blood and unresponsive. Panic erupted across the complex. Neighbors screamed and 911 calls came pouring in. First responders quickly arrived. While Tony, Danielle, and nearby neighbors were initially considered potential suspects, their alibis were solid, and DNA found under Mindy's fingernails didn't match any of them. Strangely, however, none of Mindy's items were missing, and there weren't even signs of a break-in. Whoever this was either followed Mindy inside her apartment or was already there with the sole intent to kill. But who was the murderer? To find out, investigators began going doortodoor in Mindy's apartment building and asked male residents to voluntarily provide DNA samples to eliminate them from the investigation. And this is when Mo Maurice Gibbs was discovered, a man who lived directly below Mindy's apartment and worked as a corrections officer at Barnes County Jail. Mo only knew Mindy through his wife, who was casually acquainted with her. But Moe's DNA was identified as the major contributor under Mindy's fingernails. And that was just the beginning. In 2004, a young woman in Fargo was assaulted in her home. Though DNA had been collected, no match had ever been found until now. Mo's sample matched that case, too. This made him shoot to the top of the suspect list, and he was soon brought in for an interview and polygraph test on September 20th, a week after the murder. Do you have any problem with taking a polygraph or anything? No, I don't. Okay. Um, I appreciate that because it's going to help us a lot. Not a problem. Okay. Um, you know, one of the other things too that we ask before we start this, and I ask this to everybody, it's because you're law enforcement. Uh you don't have any weapons on you or anything like that, do you? Sure. My phone, my key. Oh, okay. Nothing else on No. Okay. And you understand uh the issue that we're dealing with? Oh, yeah. Okay. And what's your understanding of the issue that we're dealing with? Was my understanding? Yeah. I mean, somebody was murdered. Yeah. Okay. And that person was uh you know, Mindy Morgan Stern, right? Okay. And did you have anything to do with that? No. Okay. You know, I I didn't think you probably would would, you know, being in law enforcement and all that kind of thing. Um, you know, from doing this these type of investigations for several years. I've been doing polygraphs for several years. Um, the person that would probably do something like this, uh, probably, you know, has hurt people in the past. I know you you've heard some you've gotten in that, but you know, other than that, they probably have a a history of hurting people or women have with them or or you know, hurting people they love or things like that. You're not any of those people, are you? No. You know, I know you you know, you said you've had some problems in the past, but that was a long time ago. Mo is definitely one of those people because detectives had learned that Mo wasn't even his original name. In the early 1990s, Glendale Morgan Jr. enlisted in the US Navy after graduating from high school in South Carolina. While stationed in Norfol between 1993 and 1994, Glenn began displaying behavioral issues due to his affiliation with gang culture. And it would all boil over in April 1994 when Glenn, an active duty sailor, took part in a drive-by shooting targeted at another service member. After Glenn was accused of attempted premeditated murder and court marshaled, he served four years in prison. After his release in 1998, Glenn changed his name to Mo Maurice Gibbs and relocated to North Dakota, the very state where the 2004 assault took place. Shockingly, he was later hired as a corrections officer at Barnes County Jail. For years, he desperately tried to hide his identity while being the same Mo who had once tried to kill another member of the military. And this is why you will hear detectives refer back to his past throughout this interview. When did you first move into that apartment? Uh, I would say our 6 months lease just ended in October. The first October end. So I would say I want to say April, but I'm not exactly sure. I believe it was April 1st we actually moved in. Okay. Okay. Okay. Prior to that, where were you living at? We were living at When did you, you know, I know you said you were living in Fargo for a while. What do you remember about when you moved here to Valley City? It might have been February. February, I believe. February of this year? 05. 05. Okay. You weren't married when you came here? No. Okay. Had you been Had you been married before you got married this time? I've been Yeah, I was married before, but not not like I was already divorced. I got divorced. Okay. And I didn't ask you earlier, but you had been married previous to this marriage here? Yes. Okay. And you got divorced when? In 97. Okay. Okay. So, you moved into that apartment building in April. Um, did your wife live with you right away at that point? Yes. Your current wife moved in with you right away. We were living together in the house before that. Okay. So, how long have you lived together then? Since I moved here in February. Do you know your wife prior to moving here? Yeah, we were dating. I was living in Fargo. Okay. So it was, you know, we were trying to make it things work and like, you know, why don't you just move up here and go to school here? So that's what made me move up here. All right. Uh, now you moved into the apartment over there. Did you uh did you know who Mindy was? Yes, I know. She worked with my wife's sister. Okay. Your wife's sister is Yeah, but she's in Kent right now. She goes to school in Kent. Okay. So, you you met uh Mindy through Yes. So, you did you know Mindy well enough where you were on a firstname basis. You talked to each other all the time. Well, no. We didn't talk to each other all the time. It was in passing. Like we would see each other passing be like, "Hey, you know, how you doing?" Mhm. But it was no long conversations. Oh, okay. That Okay. U But you know, she she knew your name. Yeah, I would believe so. Okay. Cuz she knows my wife. Okay. So, you know, they know the whole family. Did uh you guys get to visit get together and visit at all? Like just to go out and hang out? Well, you know, even in the apartment building? No, we never hung out. I mean, I was up I went to her place one time and that was probably either a week and a half or two weeks ago and that was just because she was coming home and she was holding her pants, holding a laundry basket and a book bag and I helped you know me and me were leaving so I helped her out to her apartment and that was it. Okay. But other than that So that's the only time you've ever been up in her apartment was about a week and a half. Yes. Was Mindy ever in your apartment? No. Not that I I mean if she was there with my wife when I wasn't at work I don't know but okay not to my knowledge she wasn't. According to friends and classmates they grew concerned when Mindy failed to respond to texts as they had plans to meet for dinner on the evening of September 13th. This is when they decided to check her apartment and found her. But they had noticed a number of unusual signs. The door was unusually unlocked which was out of character for Mindy who always kept it shut and secured. When they found Mindy, they initially thought it might have been because of her multiple sclerosis, a condition she managed, but that could occasionally cause fatigue or weakness. But when they got closer, they realized that she was surrounded by blood and a belt was tightly wrapped around her neck. Throughout this panic, Mo was nowhere to be found. So, where exactly was he? This is exactly what detectives need to figure out as they begin to dive deep into his story. I know you've given a couple statements as far as what you recall happening on that day where you were at. Can you just run through that again? Well, and this I've been talking with my wife because we got our I might have my days mixed up on which but I know we now that me and her talked about it. I left the apartment at 11:30 with her cuz she has to be at work at 12 12:30 that day and we went to lunch. So then I dropped her off at work at around 12:30, 12:35 and I came back to the apartment and I got to the apartment between 12:45 and 1:00. Where'd you guys go to lunch at? I I'm going to guess and say, but it's, you know, we do so many things. It's just hard to remember. Well, yeah, that's that's a week down the road here. And I know it's I have a lot of problems remembering what I did this morning. Yeah. So, but I'm g if I had to pick, I would say I'm not 100% sure if that's where we went, but we go somewhere almost every day. But I remember, you know, dropping her off and then coming back. Okay. You dropped her off at work? Yes, at work. And where's And then you went back to the apartment building. Yes. Okay. So, what time did you get do you think you got back to the apartment building? I said between 12:45 and 1:00. What do you remember when you got back to the apartment building? Anything? You know, the only thing I remember Mindy's car being parked there and I remember a black truck being parked across the street. Where was Mindy's car parked? Like right in front of the building. So it would have been facing facing facing a water treatment. What do you remember after that? Uh anything anything under the after I parked there? Yeah. Nothing. I mean I was in the apartment apartment for maybe 5 or 10 minutes. I just grabbed some more stuff and it went to her parents house. Okay. So you were still in the process of moving. Is that what you're Yeah, I've been moving all week and still moving. Okay. So you get back there, you park, and you just run into your apartment for Yeah. 10 minutes you said tops. And did you just make like one trip out to the car or a couple this time? Yeah. Yeah, it was just one trip out. I went in, me went inside and I think I grabbed a couple lamps or something. No, I don't even remember what I grabbed. It was just I grabbed some things and then went to our parents house. So, you were at the apartment building for a total uh how long is it that time? Yeah, 10 minutes at the most. Okay. Okay. What about uh backing up? What about earlier in the morning? Well, me and my wife were both there. Okay. You and your wife are both We left at 11:30. We were going to lunch. Okay. So, you left from there to go to lunch? Yes. And that's why I was saying I might have my days mixed up when I was because when I was talking to others, I was saying, you know, I went to go pick her up because that's what I usually do. But on that day, she didn't go into work till 12:30 cuz I had to work the night before. Okay. Is that is that her usual shift? That's what I'm saying. Is cuz now that doesn't go to daycare, I keep her the majority of time. But when I work, she doesn't go into work until 12:30. But if I'm if I don't work, then she goes at regular time until 8:30 or 9:30. And that's why I was saying I didn't know if it was, you know, one of those days that I just knew she always usually goes to work at 12:00. So even if she's there or not there, she I either go pick her up at 12:00. That's what I go pick her up at 12:00. But on this day, we left the house at 11:30 to go eat lunch. Okay. Okay. Now, you know that morning, did you see Mindy around the apartment building at all? No, I was sleep. You I had worked the night before. So, okay. Okay. So, you worked the night before. What shift or what time? I worked 7 to 7. Oh, okay. 7:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. What time do you think you got up that morning then? I believe it was close to 11:30. I mean, it's cuz it's kind of hard cuz you know, all the days get mixed up with me and I don't know. You know, I'm assuming we left at 11:30. You know, it could be 11:30 or we could have left at 12:00. No, I don't. Okay. So, you didn't see Mindy at all that day? No, I didn't see her at all that day. When you came home after you dropped your wife off Mhm. anything unusual that you noticed in the apartment building and here I mean from what I I try to remember because I remember the pine saw smell but I don't remember if it was that time when I went right there or cuz I've been I made a couple trips back and forth so it could have been that time when I came back just dropping her off or the next time that I came back but I remember a pine smell and I thought it was the manager cleaning apartment upstairs cuz that door was open and I seen she hadn't rang my doorbell so I thought she was cleaning upstairs. These statements about the cleaning products at least are verifiable. The most distinctive and unsettling detail of the crime scene was the overwhelming pungent stench of Pinesaw, a heavy duty cleaning agent, one that not only the entire apartment was drenched in, but Mindy was too. The killer made sure that he was thorough in trying to clean up the crime scene, and it worked because the majority of the fingerprints were compromised. Any on the belt or Mindy's body were rendered largely unreoverable due to Pinesaw's abrasive and smearinducing properties. So, it makes sense that Mo was able to differentiate that smell from anything else. But, as you'll find out, this trip where he smelled the cleaning products was only one of many. Which door do you remember seeing open? The one right on top of me. I don't know the number, but we stay on the one downstairs. If you go up the first steps and that first door, it was open. So, it' be the one right above you was open. The one right above me. So, I thought she was cleaning out because those people had just moved out. Okay. Anything else that you remember during that time period? No. Okay. And so, you were there 10 minutes and left. And left. went to parents house. How long were you there? For about an hour. And after that then I went back to the apartment and loaded the truck again. When you say truck with my I have a blazer. Okay. Okay. How long do you think you were in your apartment during that trip? That time it probably been another 20 minutes. Did you uh see anything out of the ordinary during that trip? Nope. I didn't I mean that's what I saying. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary the whole day and you know I was back and forth. Okay. So what time was it about you think when you went back on the second trip? I would have to say probably about 2:15. Okay. So you load up the truck and then and I go back to her parent house. What did you do there again? I unloaded the truck and then I went that time I probably stayed for maybe probably another hour cuz I was talking to her dad when he left. Okay. And then I went back loaded the truck again. Back again. Yeah. So, what time is it, do you think when you got back there the third time? Um, I was it would had to be 4:30 because I stayed at her parents house. It was time to go get Okay. Were you by yourself all the time with you on all the trips back and forth? Go to daycare anymore. So, I I was thinking maybe you left her at your parents' place. So, when you went back the third time, how long do you think you spent there? another 20 minutes cuz there's nothing. I mean, there's not even a TV in there. Okay. So, I just, you know, grab the boxes that I need to grab, put in the truck. Did you see Mindy around at all during the afternoon? Did you you didn't see Mindy at all that evening? No. Okay. sometime evidently that evening then things must have started happening around there. Well, and we didn't even know notice they said they were screaming and yelling up down the hallway. We didn't hear none of that. Okay. I was putting sleep maybe 8:30 9:00 and I happened to see flashing lights. So I looked out the window like, "Oh, police are outside." You know, they must have pulled somebody over right in front of the building. So then looked out the window said, you know, "Nah, something else going on out there." So, she went outside and they came back in and told me what happened, but we didn't even hear nothing. We had the air conditioner going and the TV going, so we didn't, you know, they said they were out there screaming. We didn't hear it. Okay. Needless to say, there are a few problems with Mo's alibi. According to him, he worked a 7:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. shift as a corrections officer. Once he was back home, he left with his wife at 11:30 a.m. to go grab lunch, after which he dropped her off at work between 12:30 and 12:35 p.m. Now, here is where his story takes a strange turn. Between 12:45 p.m. and 1:00 p.m., which would line up with Mindy's time of death, Mo made a trip to the apartment complex to grab a few things. Next, he drove to his in-laws, and in the following hours, he made two more trips back to the apartment. one at 2:15 p.m. and another at 4:30 p.m. Both times staying for 20 minutes. Keep in mind that the body wasn't found until almost 9:00 p.m., which would have given Mo plenty of time to clean up the crime scene. Moreover, the initial stop at 12:45 would have given Mo plenty of time to murder Mindy as she stopped replying to texts and calls at that exact time. And lastly, if Mo really did need to move things, why not do it in one trip rather than three? Now this corrupt cop finds himself in a corner spinning lie after lie. So you found out previous evening, you know, your wife evidently found out and told you what happened. What was your reaction? Well, at first I didn't really know who she was talking about, you know, cuz I, you know, we don't we know each other, but we don't really know each other like that. She was just like, you know, the little girl said somebody got killed upstairs. Then she, you know, she went back out and I was just like, wow. you know, in this building like so then she came back in was like, you know, it's Mindy. And then I was trying to calm her down because, you know, she's pregnant and, you know, I didn't want nothing to happen to her. Who's pregnant? My wife's wife. Okay. So then I was just like, you know, this is crazy, you know. Yeah. So then we that's when we walked outside, you know, they were telling us, you know, her friend found her and she's screaming and yelling up and down the hall. Like when was she screaming and yelling? I was like, we didn't hear nothing. We've been in the apartment all day. She was like, "Well, it just she just found her right a little while ago." I like, "We didn't hear that. I just flashing lights." Yeah. Okay. Uh, what did you find out happen? Just that she got killed. We I mean, I keep I heard stories, you know, after that. But what kind of stories have you heard? that first it was she committed and then it was you know somebody killed her and then just the little stories like oh it was this person and some guy wandering down the hall the highway just you know little stories but I don't really pay attention okay so do you have any idea how she died? Did anybody tell you exactly how she died? Not exactly how she died. Okay. So you you have no idea. Well, they said that her throat got cut and you know that's what you know. Uhhuh. I heard on I think they said it on TV or somebody I think somebody told us that her throat got and that was okay. Is there anything else that you can remember from that day? No. When do you think the last time was that you had saw her prior? It was that week and a half ago when I the week and a half ago. So, you haven't seen her for about 10 days, though? Yeah. Okay. And you said you've been in her apartment once? Once. And was that the last time you saw her? That was the last time I saw her. Yeah. With Mo denying almost everything without a solid alibi, the examiner will finally subject him to the polygraph test. And to Mo's benefit, he will even be told the questions heading his way. Okay, these are the questions I'm going to ask you. Now, they're not necessarily going to be in the same order, but these will be the questions, and I'll go over them with you now, and I'm going to need a yes or no answer on each one of them. Okay. Okay. Regarding Mindy's death, do you intend to truthfully answer those questions? Oh, you want me to answer that? Yeah. Yes. On September 13th, did you physically harm Mindy and cause her death? No. Did you injure Mindy and cause her death? No. Okay. Now, these next three you have to listen carefully to, but you should be able to answer no to these because you said you haven't done these in the past. Between the ages of 21 and 33, do you remember hurting someone on purpose? No. During the first 21 years of your life, do you remember hurting someone who loved you? No. During the first 33 years of your life, do you remember the girl have with you? No. Is this the month of September? Yes. Do you believe me when I promise you I won't ask a question? We haven't gone over word for word. Yes. Even though I promised you I would not. Are you afraid I'll ask a question we haven't gone over word for word? No. Okay. Those are the questions. You okay with them? Yeah. Shortly afterward, the examiner hooks him up to the polygraph sensors and begins the test. Do you believe me when I promise you I won't ask a question? We haven't gone over word for word. Yes. Regarding Mindy's death, do you intend to truthfully answer those questions? Yes. Between the ages of 21 and 33, do you remember hurting someone on purpose? No. On September 13th, did you physically harm Mindy and cause her death? No. Did you injure Mindy and cause her death? No. During the first 33 years of your life, do you have to? No. Even though I promised you I would not, are you afraid I'll ask a question? We haven't gone over word for word. No, you said you have no idea how Mindy died or anything. Is that correct? Other than what you heard that she had her had her throat cut, but other than that, you wouldn't have any idea of anything that happened? No. To her? No. Okay. U You have no idea if um you know she was tied up or Well, I've heard it wasn't before. Okay. Uh but you don't know. You shouldn't know. Was she tied up or anything like that? No. Okay. You don't know if she was um uh with a blanket or anything like that or with a plastic bag or whether she was like that. Okay. So, if I told you she was also with something, you wouldn't have any idea what that item should be, should you? No. Okay. What I'm going to do, I'm going to make up another eight questions and what what they're going to be are different things that she could have been with. Okay. And um again, I'll go over with you and only the person that was actually in there should know that. and um you know, you weren't in there, so you shouldn't know any of this. Okay. All right. Just relax for a little bit, and I'm going to make up some more questions. At this stage in the interrogation, it's critical to understand what detectives and eventually the medical examiner concluded about Mindy Morgan Stern's cause of death. The autopsy revealed two distinct and devastating injuries. First, deep slash wounds to the throat and second, ligature marks around her neck, consistent with strangulation by a cloth belt. Now, hooked up to a polygraph, he has a surprise test headed his way. These are the eight choices, and I'm going to need an answer on each one of these as I go through them. Okay. Okay. Here, the way the questions are going to go. Which of the following items was wrapped around Mindy's neck? A rope. So, am I supposed to answer yes or no to it? That's correct. How are you going to answer it? So, do I answer like is this what it was or I don't know. That's Well, either I need a yes or no answer. Basically, you're going to have to answer no if you don't know. Oh, no. You know, if you do know, you have to answer yes. No. Okay. Okay. Which of the following items is wrapped around Lindy's neck? A rope? No. A bra? No. A pair of pants? No. A pair of nylons? No. A shoelace? No. A belt? No. A hose? No. A close hanger? No. Those are going to be the questions. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. The questions are about to begin again. Which of the following items is wrapped around Mindy's neck? A rope. No. A bra? No. A pair of nylons? No. A shoelace? No. The polygraph examiner repeats all the questions you just heard multiple times. This is done as standard procedure to establish physiological baselines, ensure consistency in responses, and most importantly, improve the reliability of tests. After all, polygraphs do not exactly detect lies. They only detect physiological responses, which may or may not correlate with deception and can often be unreliable. And in most case, he's about to be told of his stellar performance. Okay. What do you think you did? Okay. Well, there's a little bit of indication there that something is bothering you about this. And um you know, I guess I just want to try and get it resolved. bother me about what? Well, you know, like for example, uh you claim you didn't know anything about, you know, what was wrapped around her neck and that, but yet when I asked you about the belt, you really reacted to it. And I guess I'm just sort of wondering why that was. I just answered, you know, truthfully, I don't know. Okay. Uh you consider yourself a pretty honest person, right? Yes. And uh how much did you know about Mindy? Not a whole lot. Just you know the little stories I hear from talking. Like what kind of stories? She's dingy and you know sort of sounds like she went out with a lot of guys and hit out a lot of guys too. Did you ever see that? I've only even known her with one person. Okay. And that was just because you know that's who they said it was her boyfriend. Sure. But I mean other than that I don't know about her personal life. Okay. Okay. But, you know, just to go back over what you told me, you had no contact with her at all that day, you said. That day? No. Okay. Nothing the day before. You said in fact, you haven't seen her for like 10 days, you said. Yes. Okay. Um, and uh you've only been in the apartment the one time, you said. That was when you helped her carry the stuff up or whatever. Yes. Uh, and since then, you haven't been in the apartment. No. Why? And and I'm still trying to understand why you were reacting to the questions, you know, and as far as even as far as causing Mindy's injuries, there seemed to be something there that was bothering you a little bit. I couldn't I mean, I don't know nothing about it. I mean, just you know, the stuff that I hear. Yeah. And as far as anything else, I wasn't there. So, yeah. I mean, it's not bothering me that I know. I mean, cuz I know I wasn't there. So, Okay. And you're positive that nobody told you anything else about the crime scene as far as how she died or anything like that? There isn't anything that you know? Well, I mean I hear, you know, people have said, you know, this is what happened. This is what happened. But as far as how true that goes, you know, I can't say for sure cuz they say nobody knows. But I mean, I heard stories, but as far as what actually happened, I don't know. Okay. So, I mean, but yeah, I've heard several different ways, you know. Okay. But have you ever been in that apartment other than the time you told me about? No. Uh, did you have any type of relationship going with Mindy or anything? You know, and I know you just got married and you may be afraid to talk about it, but if if you did, we need to know about it so we can explain the reactions here. None whatsoever. Okay. Uh, did you see her at all that day? something is bothering you about this and I'm just trying to I mean it's a you know for me to be sitting in here I mean yeah you're trying to eliminate but you know to go from one thing story to all a sudden now it's black people involved and being the only one in the building you know Mo might continue to deny ever seeing Mindy that day but his own body tells a different story before walking into the interrogation several injuries were observed on his hands a scratch on his right and a gouge on his These were consistent with someone being clawed at during a violent struggle. And considering the DNA under Mindy's fingernails, Mo doesn't realize just how much trouble he's really in. DNA is pretty specific. Mhm. Um, you know, down to millions of people. Yeah, I understand that. And somewhere along the line, uh, Mindy scratched a person that attacked her. Do you have any fresh scratches on you or anything from Wednesday? No. From after Wednesday. Yeah. Okay. My wife like where where do you have scratches on my arm and right here? This happened Thursday. This happened Friday. My wife can verify it cuz she What about any other scratches that you have on you anymore? Nothing on your head or I see you. I mean Yeah. Like on your neck or your face or anything like that? Nothing. Well, you know, I'm serious about this now. And I we're we're we're in a bind here. Um your DNA is matching what we found on her under her fingernails. I don't know how my fingernail my DNA was on under her fingernails. Okay. You didn't have any contact with her that day at all? No. Not for 10 days. You said at least 10 days when I helped her upstairs. Yeah. Okay. Your DNA is under her fingernails. You knew you reacted to the belt along upon her neck. You haven't been completely honest with me. You haven't been completely honest with me about your background because I probably know some things about you that you haven't told other people. Um, you've been through this before, Mom. Not exactly like this, but um, you've been you worked with the system enough where, you know, the only thing that's really going to help you out here is to cut your losses. Well, I had nothing to do with her death. I know that. Nothing at all. Nothing. Okay. My background. Okay. Yeah. I can. You did. You didn't tell me the truth on all that. As far as my military past, no, I didn't. Okay. But I mean, and as you said, I didn't tell nobody that. Nobody really knows that. But in my military past, Yes. Yeah. I can I'll admit to that. But I had nothing to do with her death. No. Were you there when she was killed? No, I was not. No. The DNA, you know, the polygraph here. I I can maybe argue with you. A lot of people don't don't agree with or believe in polygraph. Now, the chief here doesn't believe in polygraph and sometimes the first time I ever took I have no clue. Yeah. And uh there are times I wonder about the results too. But when we get DNA backbone and it says this is the person that matches this person out of so many million. We can't argue with that mole. Plus, I'm going to let you in on something else here. The DNA that they match that they brought up, it also matches uh the DNA that was found on a girl that was two years ago in Fargo. Okay. Two years ago in Fargo. Yep. In 2004 during the time period, you were in Fargo. Well, what I know I didn't do anything. No, everybody says you're a good guy. You know, the people that work work with you, everybody around here loves you. Um, sometimes we just do stupid things. You know, whether we're drinking or doing or whatever or we get caught up in something that we don't intend to do. And um, you had some problems in the past. I understand that. But you've also not been in trouble for a while. Yeah, you're right. You just got a new wife. Uh she's pregnant. Um people make mistakes. Mo I didn't make this mistake. So no I I know you can sit you're going to sit there and tell me that but as I said the polygraph I can I can dismiss that. The DNA I can't. Um, I have to find how did you tell me then how did scrapings or your skin get under her fingernails? How could that have happened? You tell me. I don't I know nothing about DNA. I know I wasn't. The only way it could have gotten there, Mo, was through contact. And I, you know, what I was getting with about Mindy, you know, I know she's, you know, we found out that she probably gone out with quite a few guys. And I don't think anybody would blame you if if you had tried taking her out or anything or or were having some type of relationship with her. Tragically, just a month before being killed, Mindy reported a deeply disturbing encounter. On August 22nd, 2006, she was returning to her apartment when an older man stopped her and asked for directions. While the details are not exactly known, Mindy was affected to the point that she went to the Valley City Police Department to file a report. When CSIs discovered the kitchen knives that were used to kill Mindy, they had parts of DNA present on them from two unknown male contributors, which could not be identified due to contamination and breakdown. Given Mo's gang affiliations and violent past, investigators couldn't rule out that others may have been involved. But without hard evidence, all of this remains speculative. Didn't happen. I never tried to take her out. Never. Were you up in her apartment at all other than the one time the 10 days ago? No, I wasn't. So, there isn't going to be You know what trace evidence is? Trace evidence is little pieces of hair, uh, little pieces of partic clothing particles, anything things like that that end up on a body. They transfer from one person to the other. Yeah. And are we going to find any of trace evidence, trace particles from you on on her body? You know, we already got DNA. You shouldn't. No. Um, my clothes are probably still sitting in the dirty clothes. Where where would they be at? That's right. Parents house. We just moved them from the apartment to the thing in a hamper. Okay. What were you wearing that day? Um, blue shorts and a white tank top. So, well, um, I'm only doing this because you're a fellow law enforcement person, but you need to cut your losses here. You need There is no losses to cut. Yes, there are. I'm not Mo. I'm not lying to you here. You were in trouble here. Okay. Well, what's our next step? I mean, cuz you can talk to me till you turn blue in the face. I know I didn't do nothing. I can talk to you till I turn blue in the face. You're going to go off of what you got to do, and I'm going to do what I got to do. Okay. So, I know I didn't do nothing. So, now what do we do? Well, I think there's going to be somebody else that's going to want to talk to you. And that's fine. Yeah. So, do I need to tell pick up the kid, the truck? Yeah, we'll take care of that a little bit. What what we're going to do here u what I'm trying to do is give you a break and you know right now or or try and convince you that you need to do whatever you can to help yourself. But, uh you've been through the system enough. You know how judges are. Uh somebody comes in and says, "Yeah, I screwed up. they take that into account. If somebody sits there and says, "I didn't have anything to do with it." When there's overwhelming evidence against them, the judge does not take kindly to that. Uh you're going to have to decide which is best for you. You understand what I'm saying? Yep. So, and again, that's is a somebody that's in law enforcement Um, I can't make you help yourself. I understand that. With Mo denying absolutely everything, the interview comes to a halt. That is until a pair of detectives walk in and give him a run for his money in one final confrontation. I'd like to talk to you a little bit about this other situation that's going on because we've asked him a lot in development. And I know I've been I know you don't want to talk about but just try to hear me out. I'll I mean listen and I know they talked to you about the DNA that we found with her that matches yours. Okay. And there's no way to get around that. It's obviously that you were there and how you know I don't know have you been to skills school or you have been to the academy yet or anything like that? Have you had any experience on how trace evidence goes? How blood can transfer from one person to another? And no matter how much you clean it off, it's going to be in there. And we're going to be doing search warrants today on all these places. You could have been in there and wash your hands or whatever and we're going to find trace evidence from her. Now, how are we going to explain that? It's not going to happen because she's not it's not I wasn't there. She wasn't. Let's say for example, we do find trace evidence from her because there was quite a bit of blood at the scene. It always gets transferred. You know how much blood we need for DNA? pin drop. Okay. Well, and is that going to be in your place? I mean, if we This is your chance. How are you going to explain? Let's say to your wife, your kids, your family. You go and we got to go back and tell them. I'm We prove this up. We found evidence here. We found evidence there. We've got his DNA. How's that going to How's that going to look when they go? He didn't show any remorse. No. Dale and I both said here we're giving you an opportunity need to tell us about what happened and I appreciate and a lot of things can happen like I talked to you before there's two sides of every story right you talking about this or you talking about No I'm talking about the thing in Valley City oh I mean this is going to happen this is going to happen and we're going to put this all together and we want to know what type of person you are do you have any feelings about what happened here maybe you were intoxicated maybe you were I don't drink I don't do Okay, maybe of course there's a very bad thing to happen and for it to happen and you seem like a person that if this would happen something's we can explain what happened that this there's no question about it right now that you were involved in this. Okay. And you have to tell us what type of person you are. Here's what happened. Here's why I went there. It was absolutely things got out of hand. Uh she was looks like she was going to come at me so I was defending myself. whatever happened. Well, because there's no question that you were involved in this, okay? You know, and then when we put it together and we put it together and then the states attorney or who's ever in charge and the judge and all that, they're going to ask us how did Mo react to this and we say we got to go back and tell them this guy doesn't care at all what he did or would rather go back and say he's taken responsibility for what he did. Now, how's that? If I did it, I would take responsibility for it. But I know I didn't do it. So it's I mean yeah it's a very bad thing that happened and I felt bad when it happened. But as far as me having involvement, I didn't do it. So you're not being honest with us here. You know, both us and Dale and I have had tons of training and we know when somebody's not being truthful. What we do like to know is why things happen. It's obvious to us and I'm going to be brutally honest with you here. You're not being honest with what happened. Okay. And then you're going to have to explain this to your family and all that about I didn't show any remorse. I didn't take any responsibility. It's time to take some responsibility for this. It's going to be put. We're going to be doing we're going to find the trace evidence. We've already got the DNA evidence. Okay. Well, find it. I mean, like I told we haven't worst clothes. I can tell you exactly where my clothes are at. They're in the laundry basket and you find anything on there, you know. Well, here's here's the deal. Uh, you know, we're going to have to do some other things. You keep asking what's the next step or what are we going to do next? Know that there's probably things we're going to have to do. We're going to be doing search warrants. Uh, and we're going to be doing search warrants at different places. you know, your old apartment, new apartment, your in-laws place, uh, wherever we think we need to go. Uh, you can help us make it a lot easier on on us and also on them. Um, especially on the family and we don't think that you're a bad person. We think something happened there. This isn't something that uh Mo Gibbs goes out and does every day. You know, he's not a cold blooded killer or anything like that. Uh but we need your help a little bit here too, Mo. I can't help you with what happened with her. Can your family help us? Do you think they're involved in it? I don't know. That's something That's something we're going to have to look at. No, you can look at it however you want to do what you got to do. I didn't do this. No, I'm going to again be honest. There's absolutely no question that you did. Okay, we're being honest. So then it shouldn't it shouldn't be no more further discussion. No, but we don't want to take you to jail and just go, "Well, hey, obviously that happen." Yeah, that's going to happen. But when we tell the people, we tell her family, do we tell the judge? We tell the state's attorney, we gave him this opportunity. good game and I appreciate this opportunity but I didn't do it. So you got to do what you got to do and I'll sit and wait until you so called. I've talked to so many people about this and they said no and then when it comes time when they go to to the front of that judge front of that jury in front of that family in front of their family and they go dang it Jim I wish I would have talked to you then because now you can't help me out at all. I said, "No, this is your chance, Mo. This is your chance to help yourself out. Help the family out. We don't want to go back and say Mo is a cold blooded killer because we don't think that. We're going to say, "Here, we talked to Mo. We gave him." And this is very difficult to do. I understand that. It's very difficult to do. But if you honestly think about that, this is going to happen. You're going to be charged with this. Look, you're an intelligent person, right? I understand. You're an intelligent person. Okay, just look at it this way. Okay, I go before the judge. I talk to Dale. I talk to everybody involved with this. Did you give him an opportunity to talk to you about what happened? Yes, we did. And what did he tell you? He said, I don't talk to you and I don't do anything. Now, we go before the judge. I did I say that? No. So, now we would rather go, you know, your honor, state attorney, family. Yes. We talked to him and this is what happened and he's absolutely so remorse for what happened. It's a terrible thing. He took responsibility for what he did. Okay, you're intelligent person. What's going to happen to one person that doesn't say anything or the other one takes responsibility? Who's going to get consideration? Who's going to get any consideration? You're a smart person. Who's going to get some consideration? The person that takes some responsibility or the other one that says, "I didn't do it." neck proves that it is you. Who's going to get just think that logically who's going to get to who's going to get the consideration? Just answer me. I mean, you're a smart person. It'd be the person who takes responsibility responsibility for what they did. And this is the position you did. And this is your position you're in right now. So, help yourself out. I don't want to come back and see you later on and go, "Dang it, Jim. I wish I would have talked to you. I wish I would have told you because right now I'm looking at this M if I did it, I'd take responsibility for it. The reason that Mo is so confident is because he still thinks that his DNA can't be found. After all, he made several trips back and forth to clean up the crime scene, and it almost worked. The only thing that he did not anticipate was the fact that Mindy struggling and scratching had left his DNA under her fingernails. And now he will be given a brutal reality check. Let's just say we go to your place or your in-laws in your cars and let's say okay we find a mighty drop of blood from Indie. Then we have to explain that. Okay. Would you would be willing to talk to us and we sure come back. And what if you don't find nothing? You still talk to me? Sure. I'll talk to you either way. That's fine. I mean my truck is right out there. Yeah. And I told you that too. You know we're always here. if you want to talk to us, we're willing to do that. And and again, just because you were invol involved in law enforcement, that's maybe why we're taking a little extra time with you trying to trying to get you to understand, you know, the position you're in. Mhm. Um, you know, because it also reflects on us. Okay. And what we would like to say is that a fellow law enforcement officer made a mistake, but he also admitted So why not say a fellow officer was accused and then found not guilty? So you saying you already just got in your mind that yeah you don't know a lot about DNA, do you know? I can care less about DNA. Well, DNA is is what is the new thing right now. That that is a thing that okay solves the crimes for us because DNA evidence is indisputable. We can't argue with it cuz they're going to come in and say, you know, this DNA was under this person's DNA was under her her frails and there is only one in 900 million people that have that type of DNA. And it's not something that we can dispute and say, "Oh, they're wrong." It it's that accurate. Okay. you know, and what I'm asking you, and this is mainly for your wife and and your your your kid that's on the way in that just sit there and relax a little bit. Did you explain how her DNA got? Can't explain it. Nope. Getting back to the part. She look not really maybe I mean blonde. I mean well yeah I know good. I mean and you know I can't say for sure you know I mean it's possible if she said she met me at and left from you know it's possible but I mean did it happen just one time? Did I only see her one time? That's what she said. That we only seen each other one time and it's possible. It happened few times that I picked somebody up at the bar and went somewhere. But I know I know for a fact that I've never saw anybody. I never had to just take anything. We'll be back and we'll let you know. Uh, could you stand up, please, with your hand behind your back. We have an arrest warrant for the murder of Mindy Mort. Okay, there's your copy. Uh, we have a search warrant for you. [Music] You got any scratches on you? I do, but not from that day. Where about? On my hands. Right here. This one over here happened Thursday. What happened? That's it. I was move on right there. What happened there? That happened Thursday when I was moving. Uh-huh. What happened? What happened when you I was like packing stuff in boxes and and this one on this side right here? I can't really I just want to look. Do you don't mind, do you? No, I don't. That happened Friday in Fargo. Uhhuh. And I was put in a car seat. You can ask my wife. You know what? You cut yourself. You know what? If we could show what you cut yourself on, would I don't know exactly what it was. What do you think it was? I was packing boxes, dude. I'm not sure. So, boy, how what do you think? How do you think How do you think this could happen? I don't know. So, you don't seem too upset about this. What can I do? I can I can yell, scream, and moan. It's not going to make a difference. I'm still sitting in a handcuff. I can scream, yell, and moan and get tased. I can scream, yell, moan. I just think you're making a mistake by by not Okay. Well, because something happened and you can you can say, you know what, this is what happened and I was only protected. I don't care. Something not that I went in and I I just butchered this girl. That's that's what they're going to say out there. You're right. You told me. And you know what? If something happened If something happened and you had to defend yourself, I don't I don't know. Maybe maybe I don't know. something. She said something that was totally uncalled for. I don't know what happened, but just to go in and kill this girl doesn't make sense to me. And I don't see that from me. I don't see that from you. At least one person is saying that. But the evidence is saying Okay. But the evidence has been wrong before, right? Not DNA. Okay. Well, you know what? A lot of people have gotten out of prison through DNA, but the same thing DNA puts them in and you know that. But you're I wish there was something anything for you to say this is what happened. But I and I wish I could too, but I can't. So I could help you out, but I can't. I can't help you out. These guys are going to do what they want to do. And you're right. They're going to do exactly what they want to do. You know what? We could we could set the record straight though. There's no setting that straight. I read the reports. You know what? Do you think I would come in and say Mo? We'll leave it at that. We'll leave it at that. Well, in the wake of Mo's arrest, a wave of allegations surfaced from the very prison where he worked. Five female inmates at the Barnes County Jail came forward to independently report that Gibbs had assaulted them while he was employed as a corrections officer. They described a man who routinely exploited his authority, preying on inmates in isolated areas. Consequently, by late 2007, Mo Gibbs was sentenced to 15 years in prison for the jail assaults, 12 years for the assault in Fargo, both to run concurrently with his life sentence for the murder of Mindy Morgan Stern.