back, in hindsight, it does. >> And what is that? >> That he he did hurt he did hurt my baby and he wasn't being honest with me about what happened that day. I took him at his word, let him say he thought maybe he gashed her too hard. And with it being hindsight, I feel like I should have pushed for more when we went to Children's versus >> Yeah, I'm kind of kind of concerned that there wasn't x-rays that day. For some reason, I don't I'm not sure why that didn't happen. >> They They did an ultrasound of her intestines, but they didn't do anything else. >> Did you request anything specific that day yourself? >> November 4th, 2024, Goshen Township, Ohio. A father calls 911 because his 4-month-old daughter isn't breathing. But as detectives investigate, their attention turns to the mother. Weeks earlier, she had searched for shaken baby syndrome online. Why was she looking it up before her daughter's death? And what did she know at the time? >> Hello. >> How are you? >> Good. >> Oh, Christian, you good? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, sorry about that. >> Was he paying much attention? >> That's a see. >> So, these detectives have a lot more information than they did that day that Evelyn died. >> So, we like to always come back and have a secondary interview and of course through the investigation, there's always extra questions that we have so that way we can kind of like fill in the little missing pieces or or something like that. So, all right. Um >> Yeah, all I'll tell you, Danielle's an unusual client for me because she keeps telling me, "What can I do? What can I do? I will give them anything. I've got nothing to hide." I just She's here for her babies. >> Yep. >> So, I mean, you know, we don't always say, "Yeah, go and talk to police more." >> Right. Yeah, we >> So, but she's unique and she she wants to be here. She wants to help. Anything she can do to help, she's made very clear. >> it would be odd him not wanting to talk to us, but >> Yeah. >> So. Um typically and I think we may even said this before, we always say you're you're free to leave at any time. You're represented by your attorneys. We're not going to sit here and read Miranda rights or anything like that, but even even witnesses and stuff like that when we actually bring them in, we always let them know that they're free to leave and stuff like that, okay? >> Mhm. >> Do you have any questions about that? >> No. >> Obviously, if there's something that you want to talk to her about and you want a time out, just let us know, we'll step out and let you have some time with her and then we'll reconvene after we're >> Okay. >> Sound okay? Do you have any questions before we get started? >> No. >> All right. Um I'll let you go ahead and you got kind of a a couple line of questions to initially to start off with. >> Yeah. Like we were saying, it's more or less just trying to fill in the pieces. I know personally I haven't got to talk to you much um other than uh at the hospital, which a million different things going on that day. Um but more or less, I'm kind of just trying uh my questions here just a better understanding um your and Andrew's relationship. Um for example, how long have you guys been together? >> For like the past few years or so, we've been saying 10 years, but I think it's closer to like >> This is Danielle Kyeair, the mother of 4-month-old Evelyn. Detectives are questioning her about the events leading up to her daughter's death, including online searches that would later become an important part of the investigation. >> Okay. >> Um Uh Yeah, I would say probably about 8 years. >> Okay, and were you guys engaged to be married? >> Yes. >> Okay. When when did you guys get engaged? >> A few years. >> Prior to um learning of your pregnancy, how would you describe your and Andrew's relationship? >> If I look back in hindsight and through the therapy I've been through now, it was emotionally and mentally abusive. At the time in the relationship, I would have said it was okay. Uh I would say I as the amount of time I've been with him, I he definitely had me under his thumb. Um and I didn't see any any signs of abuse during the relationship. >> Can you Can you Sorry. Can you explain emotion and mental cuz it obviously uh potentially could mean something to anybody how they perceive that. How how would you say that you would describe that? >> It would be in the way he spoke to me. >> All right. >> Um I get going over text messages and things of that nature. The things he would say were very manipulative. I was Understanding that now was um >> Okay. Any threats? >> None towards me. >> Toward anybody? >> Mainly himself. >> Any issues with him having anger issues? I know you mentioned mental abuse and stuff like that, but I'm not necessarily I'd like to answer if there was abuse towards you, but even type some type of anger where he's out lost control or something like that in addition to um harming somebody or damaging houses or property or >> He had punched a hole in our closet door a couple times. >> So, I think whenever I was at the house, I took a picture and there was like four different holes. Those were multiple events. >> Two separate events. >> Two separate. Okay. And I think he told me that before. >> Yeah. >> Now, it's just now that it clicks that Um do you remember when those were roughly? >> Not exactly. They were both before the girls. >> Did he have any uh like anger outbursts after the girls were born? I'm sorry. I wasn't at the house. That was the to the door? >> The our closet door. >> Closet door. Any uh does he or had he damaged any other property that you're aware of? All right. Never like punched the car or >> No. >> kicked the door or anything like that? >> He threw a stone once and broke my TV. >> Okay. >> But >> Was that out of anger? >> I'm not entirely certain if it I wasn't in the room when he did it. So, I don't know if it was necessarily out of anger. >> arguing or anything before that? >> No. >> Ever get in trouble at work for any anger issues? >> Not that he ever told me. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> When he did get angry or got into these fits where he's emotional and mental abuse towards you, what triggered that? >> It would usually we typically start off with either conversation about money or he [clears throat] was concerned that I wasn't taking care of my health. Or it would stem initially like say he made a joke and then he'd and go too far and I'd say, "Hey." And then >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Did that happen often? Well, he he makes a joke, you tell him you go you went too far, did he ever like just quit doing that or would he continue to go too far? >> All right. >> [clears throat] >> Was there ever any jealously accusations of cheating on each other, anything like that that would cause any of this? >> Again, hindsight I've been made aware that he thought I was cheating on him. >> Okay. Was that what some of the arguments may have been about at some point? All right. >> He never He never outright accused me himself. >> [clears throat] >> Did he ever I guess this that's probably just answered my question. And then I'm just going to throw it out there, did he ever make any accusations of whether the babies were his or anything like that? >> No. >> Okay. >> Six weeks have passed and the detectives are coming back with questions they couldn't answer on day one. Danielle's attorney says she's here because she wants to help, but there's a reason for this second interview. The investigators now have evidence they didn't have before and the first thing they want to understand is the relationship behind it all. >> Once you were able to go back to work, did you see a change in his stress level? >> I didn't see a change in his stress level. I did see that he seemed more insecure, but I thought it was mainly because of our parents getting in his head. Telling us uh uh you should do it this way that way. >> Every parent does it, doesn't >> Yeah. >> It's not every woman. >> Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> So, I think they just got in his head. >> Right. What was he insecure about? >> I think because of how small they were. Um what the first day I went back to work, he was concerned that he would hurt them. But after that first day, he seemed perfectly okay. He seemed okay. >> When did you go back to work? >> September 16th. >> So, before that, did he ever have any concerns that he was >> No. >> harming the child at at all? >> No. >> All right. So, then you go back to work, then he he making that known that he's nervous or afraid or something. >> Yeah. >> So, what what would he say that made you think that he was nervous or afraid of hurting the child? >> He had He had said he was He had had said he was scared that he was going to hurt them. I asked him if he wanted me to come home. He said no that he'd figure it out. He >> Why why would he be afraid that he would hurt them like how? Just because of their size or >> Because of their size and it being the first time he's held a newborn newborn newborn children. >> Do you think he's just kind of rough in general? And he he thinks that way or >> I think so. Maybe. >> Now, I don't want to put that in your head but I mean it's the only really way I can kind of ask that question. Um if he Has he ever made any mention about not being able to control self or control his strength or not knowing his own strength or anything along that lines? >> He has mentioned He had said that over the years. >> Okay. Before >> Before I was pregnant. Before >> Was there something With you um your counseling and stuff that you've been through um since the incident and looking You said looking back now, you know, you see some signs that I guess maybe weren't obvious to you then. Did um I guess Andrew's a abusive behavior or or attitude towards you did that increase more after the twins were born? >> I think so. Um I know we definitely argued more after they were born. >> What were you guys arguing about? >> It was mainly money. >> Okay. Cuz you started back to work on the 16th, so that's 2 months that after they were born. Um Did he go back to work pretty quick after the kids were >> Yeah. He So, after the initial 3 days of after I gave birth, uh he was going back to work. Um He would drop me off at the NICU. And he'd go to work. >> Okay. Other than money, was there anything else that led to arguments? Okay. You said I'm going to kind of capitalize on what he said also. Looking back at it, you you realized things. >> Yeah. >> Have you realized issues with him watching the kids at this point? >> From everything I saw with him with the girls, he always presented as a loving father. >> Okay. Were Were there ever any concerns that you had based on stuff that he mentioned to you or in calling you or in texting you or anything like that? >> No. >> Okay. And that's still looking back. Something's not triggering. >> Still looking back. I didn't know. >> Okay. So, was there ever a concern that you had that he had hurt the baby, was going to hurt the baby, anything like that? >> No. >> Were you ever concerned that anybody else, yourself, your mom, his parents, anybody had hurt the kids? >> No. >> Okay. Were his parents, your parents ever express concerns that he might be hurting kids? >> No. >> Any concerns of shaken baby syndrome? Prior to this? >> No. >> You will get to the phones. >> Yeah. >> [clears throat] >> So, as you're aware, we did the um >> the download >> download on your phone. And we did the download on his phone. Um through a search warrant between July 1st and November 4th. Um So, kind of going through and it's hard for us to understand cuz you know, a lot of um text conversations will stem from face-to-face conversations or a phone conversation that eventually carries over into um a text message. So, uh going back June or I'm sorry, yeah, June 29th. So, we're seven six seven days um prior. Was there an issue or shortly there prior to damage being caused to a door? To where Andrew's dad would have been there fixing something? Is that >> Yeah. >> Okay, what >> Looking back, Danielle says she now sees the relationship differently. She describes emotional and mental abuse, broken TVs, damaged property, and holes punched into doors. At the time, she says she didn't fully recognize the pattern. Now, detectives want to know what she noticed back then and whether any of those warning signs connect to what happened to Evelyn. >> Okay, what >> It was either the closet door or the hall room door. >> That was August 6th. Where Kyle came over. >> Yes. >> On that same day, earlier in the day, you did a Google search on how to get a baby to stop crying with Dad. >> Mhm. >> What What was >> He felt that they were crying with him more than they were with me. So, just trying to help him bond. >> Got it. >> Bonding with them. >> Kind of explain the whole motherly, nurturing, and and stuff like that. Did Did that comment ever like settle with him or did he always question it? >> He seemed to kind of always question it. Like, he thought that they would have gotten used to him, but just like it's it's going to be a while. >> And this is a matter of a month. >> Yeah. >> So, in that month, did you ever have any concerns? >> No. >> Okay. The day before you Googled shaken baby syndrome. >> Mhm. >> Why Why did you >> I think him and I were talking about it. >> Okay. Was he expressing concern? >> No. >> Like, what what would have kind of brought up the topic? >> Again, I think it was our parents. And they were I don't remember, but they were actually they were there the day before. And he was kind of just bouncing one of the babies. >> Okay. So, the day before? >> Yeah. I think they made a comment, and >> Was their comment concerning bouncing too hard or >> No, it was more they were trying to tell us how to do it. >> Okay. >> What's in the way that they felt was the correct way. >> What date was >> Uh the Google search was on the 5th, but you said the day before so August 4th >> Yeah. >> the parents would have been there. >> One set of our parents. They came at different times. >> Okay. And they Did they actually make a comment about him >> They They said something to him. >> Okay. >> I don't remember what the comment was exactly, but it was just They felt bouncing here. >> I'm I'm just trying to build up a a history of his anger here, so um You also brought up to Michael that Andrew is quick to anger with you, smashed the two TVs, broke numerous plates, even chipped the paint off the oven, punched our closet door numerous times. Every time he would then go on about how much he loves me, and that he just needed to release his anger immediately, or it would build up. But have you ever Have you ever seen it build up past that? >> No. >> And obviously, there's a history of his anger with >> me. >> not being able to control his anger and stuff. So all these incidents, the two TVs, numerous plates, chipping the paint off the oven, punching the closet door. That wasn't just a one or two day thing. Those are spread out over multiple days, potentially over >> years. >> years. >> Yeah. >> Got it. So, years of anger he has never been able to control himself and he's always going back to anger? >> They're the incidents that were always spread apart. >> Okay. >> Very spread apart. >> Would you call his anger snapping? He snaps sometimes, though? Okay. So, on that same day with all that, again, you Googled shaken baby syndrome treatments. Why would there be a Google search for shaken baby treatment? >> about it. And he wanted more he wanted to know more in-depth. >> Okay. Almost Well, shortly after that, you Googled how to tell if my baby's hurt. Did you suspect him hurting her that day? >> No. >> Do you recall why you would >> Do you remember the date? >> That's August 12th, though. That's the same same date as the 12th of >> Yeah, so with on August 12th? >> Yes. >> I don't think I talked about that with him on August 12th. >> No, this This would have been the conversation with you and Andrew about the TV mounts was on August 12th. >> Yes. >> The the Michael conversation was for I'm going to jump back. So, that would have been for just prior um to the series of three messages, that was when, um, he would have Google searched how to tell if my baby was hurt. What what's in that search? >> So, then that search was, uh, more or less to like, she's not hurt. As like I said, our parents were starting to get in his head. He never outwardly said that he thought he hurt her, but it was me trying to her, I think. >> Did he give any like specific reasons as to why he thought they might have been hurt or >> No. He never He never said he thought he hurt them. >> Okay. >> It was at some point, >> [clears throat] >> it seems So, I know >> Danielle says Andrew was worried he might hurt the girls because they were still so tiny. She offered to come home and help, but he told her he told her he manage. Looking back, that conversation takes on a different meaning, especially given what she says about his temper. Investigators wanted to know more about what was happening at home and what the evidence would show. >> So, I know with myself, sometimes I catastrophize as if to what's the worst possible outcomes. >> Mhm. >> Uh, and I had also noticed that during the relationship, he would do the same. So, it was my way of making sure I had answers if he catastrophized. >> Just a little bit further past when you asked, you know, >> Mhm. you want me to come home. Um You know. Like you said earlier, Andrew replied um back saying that he was getting more upset and basically he was just going to kill himself. Um then he says that something to the effect of they won't even look at me. I'm a monster to them. >> But >> And he goes on, you say you're not a monster and he says I am because I hurt them. And you say you don't hurt them. He says I do. I squeeze and hold them too roughly. I jerked them around too hard, bounced them too hard. I am hurting them. You say, "No, you're not, Andrew. They're resilient babies." He said, "I hope so because they're our father." And you say, "No, you're not. It's adjustment period." Um and we go down just a little bit further to that. He said they're attached or you say they're attached to me and they deform attachment to you. You aren't hurting them. And he just says I am. You said you're not. Give me one good reason as to why you think you're hurting them. And he replies back with I am moving them too quickly. And you asked him to send you a picture of the marks and he says he'll see you when you get home. I know I just threw a lot at you there, but do you remember that convers- >> Um >> Do you remember the marks once you got home? >> So the marks You took a picture, right? >> Yeah. >> I was I had her outside. They They just looked like she had jerked her arm when swaddling and his thumb caught her. Not that he had done anything intentionally to her. >> Then text me this or Do you want her to send me the picture and I'll send it to you? >> Yeah, that'd be great. Looking back all the times that he says he's hurt her, same verses knowing the thing on the ace ribs cracking then only paying medicine helping does that change your opinion on what happened? >> Looking back in hindsight, it does. >> And what is that? >> That he he did hurt he did hurt my baby and he wasn't being honest with me >> about what happened that day. I took him at his word and let him say he thought maybe he gas her too hard. And with it being hindsight I feel like I should push for more when we went to Children's versus >> Yeah, I'm kind of kind of concerned with the extra visit there for some reason I don't I'm not sure why that didn't happen. >> They they did an ultrasound of her intestines but they didn't do anything else. >> Did you request anything specific that day yourself that they didn't do? >> I didn't I was trusting the experts or at the time what I believed were experts. And I thought they were doing what was best for my baby not sticking to their diagnosis that was something that I thought. >> I mean all all all through this there were times that both you and him were were Googling shaken baby, ribs cracking stuff like that. I mean deep down did you have a concern? >> I didn't. It was me just trying I think to find a way to reassure him. But with >> So obviously he had concerns that looking at it today were probably legit concerns from his point of >> Looking at it from the hindsight. >> So, you're saying basically you looking all this stuff up was just to reassure him that >> He wasn't doing anything. >> Wasn't doing what he was thinking he was doing. Has your opinion changed any on that then? >> My opinion, yes. It's like I said, I'm looking at everything hindsight. >> And that's that's easy to do. I mean it we can Monday morning quarterback about everything we get involved in and and and see things that we would do different or change or man, I wish I had that opportunity again type thing, but I had I think it's probably just part of normal human behavior really. >> And and at some point when you were at Children's, what did Andrew He was there on the 8th, right? What did he say to them? >> He did mention that he thought he gassed her too hard and they kind of brushed it off. >> Do you have anything else? >> Uh I'm just going to get to my notes and >> Then detectives Danielle says Andrew was worried he might hurt the girls because they were still so tiny. She offered to come home and help, but he told her he told her he managed. Looking back, that conversation takes on a different meaning, especially given what she says about his temper. Investigators wanted to know more about what was happening at home and what the evidence would show. >> overwhelming evidence that he was having an affair on you. Um the night before there was a lot of messages on his phone between him and another female. And it wasn't just messages, they were sharing photos and videos with each other and stuff like that. Do you have any knowledge about anything to do with that or who you would suspect? >> No. >> Okay. Um Was there ever times where he would just disappear and you don't know where he's at, anything like that, or he's talking to somebody and he it's awkward that he's trying to hide conversation with you? >> I I never checked his phone. I never felt the need to check his phone. >> Did he ever accuse you of anything like that? And the reason why I asked that is sometimes when people are doing that, they make accusations towards somebody else to kind of get it away from them. >> He never outwardly accused me of anything. I learned like I said with the hindsight I had at one point and someone told me about a YouTube video and I'm going through the comments on that I learned that he had told someone he thought I was cheating on him with my brother-in-law. >> Police >> What's going on? What happened? >> I was feeding her. She was having complications with just like being comforted. >> You're on Children's? >> B North. >> B North, right now. Um What's going on? What happened? >> I was feeding her. She was having complications with just like being comforted. So, I took her to go change her diaper. She fell off and like I I guess I like tried to snatch her or something. So, I think she smacked the back of her head, but like I didn't catch her in time. So, I I don't know. I >> Okay. Who's here with you? >> Just me. >> Just here with you. >> Yeah, and I have another baby. >> Where's mom at? >> She's at work up in Dayton. >> Okay. Take us in and let us see where >> Yeah. >> How old's the other child? >> Not yet. >> Yeah. Just hang on. Okay, let's go. Go ahead. Are any dogs or anything? >> they're all locked up. So, you just walked Okay, just walk through what? What's going on? Where was she sleeping? How when did she wake up? Okay. So, you brought her back in here and then what? So, you're changing her diaper, she drops her pacifier. Spits it out, then what do you do? She pushed over and what? Okay. And how did she fall? Okay, then what happened? >> According to his account, the baby rolled off the changing table while he turned to retrieve her pacifier. He says he tried to catch her but couldn't reach her in time. Now, officers need to understand exactly how She starts changing colors. She starts turning white. So now I'm like freaking the [ __ ] out, like what is going on? What did I just do? Is it my fault? What did the like what is going on? So I I mean she was like not real breathing like consistently. I noticed like she's I'm looking for like her ribs sucking or anything like that and she's not doing any of that. It's just like she's not breathing. >> And when she hit the ground, did she hit on her back, on her face? >> back, her head. Yeah. >> Okay. What was she doing before you were prior to changing her diaper? You guys were out there and you said that they had asked you to watch. Was she Was she upset? Was she >> She's fussing and she's like and she's So I'm trying to obviously soothe her. I'm trying to get her happy, right? So I picked her up and I brought her in here just to again change her diaper and everything like that and just go through the steps, right? She's just eaten. She just I was trying to get her to take a nap. All these other things that you do to like get a baby soothed, right? And she's not having it. So >> Okay. Um Do what? >> Where did she fall from? >> Right here. >> Um What you need has Have you notified your wife? >> I just said and I have emergency is all I all I said. Emergency. >> Okay. You need to Is your neighbor going to take get the other baby ready and go to [clears throat] the hospital or >> are you Is she already there at the hospital? >> She's already >> She's already gone. Okay, yeah. She's critical, right? Yeah. >> So B North. What time did your wife go to work? >> She leaves here out at like 3:30. She works at 4:30. >> Okay. Okay. What time did the babies wake up? >> I get them up at 6:00. >> He describes finding Evelyn struggling to breathe, changing color, and showing signs of bruising. As officers ask him to walk through the incident again, the focus shifts to the details of the fall and what happened immediately afterwards. >> At 6:00. So we've only been doing this for an hour. >> Wait, wait, this is her bed? All righty. Let's go get the other child ready and then we'll get your neighbor to drive you cuz you're Okay. >> Can I like change my clothes at all or just I mean this is okay? I don't even have underwear on. I'm just wearing pajamas. >> Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. Until and with the house the way it is we're going to remain here outside. There's no other children inside, correct? >> So, no one else is in the house. >> All right, we're going to remain here, get to the hospital, we'll secure everything up for you. Okay? Just she's going to drive normal. They're probably already there. Okay? So >> Go ahead. >> Like I understand like it's it's all like crazy and stuff like that, but like I got a messed up head so it I can kind of >> There's our card. We will secure everything and wait out here. We have other investigators coming. That's the reason. But you need to get to the hospital, okay? >> All right. I'm getting I'm getting her pulse is really weak and they're worried about her not being able to pull through and >> Okay. >> So, it's not good. Not good. And then I'm talking to you guys and it's just like scared, man. I'm just so scared. >> So, this is a normal procedure with these types of situations, you know. >> I understand that, but I'm still just so scared. >> Okay. >> I'm so scared. >> So why don't you tell me what happened? >> So, it was like they got them up. It was probably And so I went in and put her pacifier in her mouth. That was probably about 5 >> This is Andrew Cima, the father of 4-month-old Evelyn. His police interview is about to begin as investigators work to understand what happened to his daughter that morning. >> 45-ish. It was usually get up a little bit before 6:00 and then I get up at 6:00 and you know, warm up milk and get them seated in there they have a little boppy thing which was on the ottoman right in front of the TV in my house. I don't know if you guys got to go over there. >> I've not been there yet. >> So, we set them in there and that way we can you know, having twins is a little difficult to just do you know, I can't like hold both of the babies and feed them both at the same time. So, having things like the boppies and the pillows are able to like help me do that. So, I get them fed and probably about like 6:20 I've got them like they're starting to fall asleep. They're preemies man, they're just they're not fully developed right. So, >> [snorts] >> she's pushing and arching her back a lot because of that acid and um so, she's not settled. So, I sleep at 6:36 and I'm thinking like you know, I I need to start getting ready. I have to go to work soon and I got to drop them off at my parents house on my way to work. So, I took her into the nursery. And I'm you know, trying to get her ready and um I unzip her jumper and I put it up you know, wrap it up by her and um I take her diaper off. There's pee in it, no poop. So, I uh kind of rub her legs a little bit and then kind of like push them gently on her stomach see if that would help and it did. She pooped and then um she started fussing, spit out her passy and I came off the the side of the um the changing table and it bounced. So, I turned around for a second and I guess in that time she did the whole arching thing cuz she's literally like launching towards the ground when I turned around and it at that point like I pick her up and I'm soothing her and she stops crying as I'm like soothing her but then she starts grunting and she's changing colors and so that's kind of when I noticed like I guess she's not like breathing the right way that she's supposed to be breathing, right? I mean she's not like screaming. She's honestly her eyes are kind of like almost fuzzy looking and she's not looking well so I instantly call 911 and I'm on the phone with the uh operator and I'm I I just I after that it's just I just try to do everything I could to help her, man. So I don't know. I mean that's that's that's it. Like I couldn't even tell you what happened really after that. I know that everybody's in my house. That was the one thing she said is is the door unlocked? No. I I I had the baby so I I went and unlocked the door. I went back. I grabbed my phone and then I'm in there and that's when I was doing chest compressions so like right in the in the corner of my sectional. She spit up all sorts of milk. She's limp as just like pasta. Just absolutely just limp and colorless and it was it's it's the worst thing ever. The absolute worst thing ever. >> Okay. Um These are your only two children? >> Mhm. >> No no older children? >> I've never had a This is This is the first time I've ever had children. This is the only you know, ever ever. Never had a child before. Don't know what I'm doing. I'm just trying to make it every single day. >> Right. >> Andrew Camerer explains again how he says Evelyn was positioned when she fell off the diaper changing table. >> So she's laying longways in the changing table. >> Yes. Yeah. And I but I mean that they're for not they're 4 months tomorrow. Super like mobile and I should have strapped her in was the biggest thing. I should have strapped her in. >> Okay. So is it common for her to roll? >> She pushes a lot, yes. >> Pushes or rolls? >> Pushes feet. She's pushing with her feet. So, she has acid reflux and um they arch their backs and they're trying to I guess relieve her the pain and stuff with the acid and the gas being in her chest. >> So, she's arching her legs. She's very stiff and she'll push like that. >> And she comes off the end of the changing table or off the front? >> off the side, off the front. >> Okay. >> The detectives continue to question Andrew Camerer. He sells motorcycles for a living and he was with the babies while Danielle was at work. After a long conversation, he leaves the room so the doctors can update him and Danielle about Evelyn's condition. But then he returns. >> So, did they give you an update? >> Yes. >> Okay. Do you know what the doc which doctor it was? >> No. >> What was the update? >> Not good. That she's basically going to end up being brain dead. That she has went without too much oxygen on her brain. That she's not going to pull through. >> Okay. And you don't know the doctor's name? >> No, sir. >> Okay. >> I didn't honestly I'm I'm not going to lie to you. I'm I'm so just out of it. I did not catch her name. >> Was that her? >> No. I don't know. Maybe, yeah. >> Andrew describes a morning that began with feeding and comforting his twin daughters. According to his account, Evelyn became unsettled while he was changing her diaper and he turned away briefly to retrieve her pacifier. He says that was when she fell, but the moments that followed would become central to the investigation. >> So, doctor gave us an update. I'm assuming it's probably similar to the update uh that you got. Does not look good. But they don't they don't know. They couldn't give much information. Um So also while you were out uh another detective called, "Do you have a dog in the house? Do you do you need help with getting the dog to someone's house or anything like that?" >> offered I guess to let the dog out or something and then um we're going to lock your house and give the keys to your neighbor just to secure it. So that way you guys could have a piece of mind to be here and not have to worry about Is that okay with you? >> Well, the keys are here with us. So are they good to Is the dog friendly? >> Yeah, she's not uh >> neighbor Is your neighbor familiar with the dog? Okay, so are you good with the neighbor taking care of the dog? And then would you like us to go ahead just lock the house that way you guys don't have to worry about it. >> That's fine. >> The house is secure. >> So before you went out we were talking. Um After this incident happens do you feel like you may have shaken her or >> No, I don't I don't feel like I shook her. I really don't. I like I said it was bobbing, man. It's I don't want to hurt my babies. I love them so much. I legitimately care more I I said this the second that they were born. I knew them for a day and I'd do anything in the world for. There's like I wouldn't even do that to somebody I've known 10 years. >> Yeah. >> And like obviously I mean if you needed help help or something like that like you needed a shirt or something I'd give you the shirt off my back. But like I'm not going to loan you $10,000. But for these little girls there's something about them and I even told Danielle it's the weirdest feeling in the world knowing that you'd do anything for this this little thing. >> Yeah. Uh, do you and Danielle fight? >> No, uh, we we argue about like finances. We don't No. >> Okay. How often would you say that is? >> Maybe a couple times a month. >> Uh, does it ever get physical? >> Never. >> Okay. Uh, do you ever punch walls, break stuff, anything like that? >> I woke up one time with a night terror and I punched the door in my bedroom. I'm sure they saw that. >> I'm not sure. >> Okay. Well, yeah, I I punched that. But, no, we don't we don't I don't have any violent >> How long ago was that? >> I don't know, man. Uh Maybe like earlier this year, like the beginning of [snorts] the year, like January. I don't even I couldn't even tell you. It It happened so long ago. This whole year has felt like it's been 10 years. I'm not going to lie to you. This has been the longest year and the the roughest year of my entire life. >> Um, but you didn't punch any walls or break anything this morning? >> No. >> Okay. What about last night? >> No. >> Okay. Um, what about Danielle? >> No. >> Does she ever punch walls or break things when you guys get in an argument? >> No. >> Does she ever get physical with you? >> No, she's real passive. >> Okay. So, if you guys do you get into an argument, do you feel like you or her shut down or do you guys amp up? >> She shuts down. I ask questions. I'm very solution oriented and I I just I I want to find an answer. I want to find an answer. I want to know how to fix this. How do I do How do I get to where this is going? She's kind of passive. She doesn't like to She doesn't want to say something to hurt feelings or or she she doesn't want to say something and regret it or something like that. So, she's a little more passive. She shuts down a little bit. >> Andrew Camera has Is it possible that something else happened this morning that you're not telling us that goes along Evelyn falling out of her changing table? >> Oh, man. I told you everything. There's not another thing that I can think of that I I haven't told you. I break it down by as much time by as much >> [snorts] >> So, they did send me a picture of the changing table. >> Yeah. >> And it's like concave in the middle. >> Mhm. >> Which, you know, >> That's what I was telling you. It's kind of like ramp, right? It's kind of got like a rounded edge to it, like a half pipe. >> Which makes me, you know, outside perspective, not attacking you or anything, but I see that and I'm like, "Yeah, that'd be weird." >> does she get out of it? >> I I know what you're saying, man. And trust me, after what the doctor said, too, it's got me thinking and all these concerns and all these worries and all these things like that. I But they move She moves so much, right? She moves around tremendously. They both do. And like even setting her in there, like that's the changing table. She's kicking all over the place. They both do. They move so much. I I don't know. I don't I don't I don't know how. >> Okay. Um Is it possible that you dropped her and this this statement or this situation is just confirm like conformed into her falling off this changing table? >> No. I I've never dropped them. I've never done anything that I I I don't feel comfortable holding them a lot. I'll be honest. I don't because they're so small, right? I don't love holding the babies. I I I think it's terrifying. I'm absolutely petrified to hold these little girls. >> And looking at the looking at this picture >> Mhm. >> um It doesn't really look like So, this is how it was set up, correct? >> Right. >> Okay. It doesn't look like it would even be possible to land in this little area, right? Like if you came off the side you'd think she probably would have landed on the carpet. >> Yeah. So, show me, you know, where she where she was laying at here. >> Right here. Oops, on the floor now. Like right in here. >> Okay. >> So, where she her head was right here and she like I I again like I heard her swishing sound. And then she's laying here on on the mat. >> Okay. >> I don't know, man. I understand if I get it. It doesn't make any sense and if you got to do whatever you got to do, I get it. >> No, it's it's not that's not the way that this works. I'm just trying to get a understanding, you know, exactly what happened and obviously, you know, there is another side of me that says, "Hey, we could be sitting across from someone who who made a terrible mistake with their kid uh and now we have a a duty to protect this other child, right?" >> Yeah. >> So >> Dude, I'm so scared. I mean and I'm I'm even telling Danielle, I was like, "Danielle, they're going to send me to jail, but you can sell the house, you make the money, pay off your things, do whatever you got to do, put it towards a new house." I mean, I don't I don't know. I just I don't I don't know. >> So >> says that the baby's been shook. You guys are asking me if the baby's been shook. The baby's been shook, I guess. I don't I don't understand. I >> Well, I'm not I refuse to put words in your mouth, but I do think that there are some, you know, there are some facts and circumstances here that make me question, you know, whether a child just simply fell out of a >> As the interview continues, detectives return to the changing table asking where Evelyn was positioned and how she could have fallen. Andrew repeats that she was moving and arching her back. But when investigators raise concerns about the severity of her injuries, his explanation alone does not resolve their questions. >> right? So, then I've essentially by either some sort of negligence or something, I've killed my child. And I mean I >> I'm not asking you in this situation. I'm saying in a in a situation where it's confirmed that a baby is was shaken. What do you think should happen to that person? >> Is there some sort of Yeah, I mean, it should be penalized, right? >> How do you think it should be penalized, though? >> I don't know. I mean, I don't I don't understand how a lot of this bureaucracy and the judicial system works in that regard, but I mean, is it a time frame? Is that I don't know. I guess you go to jail. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> How long do you think they should go to jail for? >> I have no I don't know. I mean, is it a life sentence? I I don't know. I mean, they're babies. >> I'm asking what your opinion, what you think should happen. If it was If in a case where it was confirmed, you know, the shaking of a baby. >> Well, if if I mean Again, was it somebody who's stressed out? Was it somebody who was considered like violently doing it just because like they don't love their children or something like that? I mean, there's there's >> I think both those factors are important, though. >> Okay. So, I mean, I guess it goes into then goes into the courts. And if you can separate the two, if one's, you know, loves their child and didn't mean to do something and one hates their child and wishes that they never had it. I mean, obviously I think that's that's worth penalizing forever, in my opinion. You you've killed a child. You've killed something that has an opportunity to do something in this world and you'll you'll you'll never know what they can do. You'll never understand what that child could have done in this world. Could have saved the world. >> And the other side? >> I don't know, man. It's uh Accidents do happen. Everybody keeps saying that to me. But I I mean I had to I think a lifetime sentence would be a little ridiculous. But if it was an accident and you you gave all your love and you did everything you for this child I don't know. Maybe maybe take them a little bit easier and you know, knock some off of it. Knock time off. I don't know. >> Okay. >> So then how how once you get into prison, once once that's once that's in there and they know that you killed a child, you know, what what's what's somebody inside going to do? >> So, like these other people have been telling you accidents do happen. Not only do accidents happen, but people make mistakes. Based on the circumstances here, I think that a mistake was made. >> So absolutely, man. If I had not put her down on the table if I had not walked away right? Or stepped away. >> You know, I >> If I had not done what if I had uh taken just a second, probably taken a breath >> Yeah. >> instead of reacting to the pacifier my child would be alive. I don't even know what she could have man. We I always teased him so much. Just a little baby. >> What do you mean? >> I just teased her because she always stuck her tongue out a lot. Just like I don't know. I just always thought that she wanted to talk and say stuff and she just didn't have a way of doing it. Always the look in her eyes. I mean, just I just teased her for it. I was like, "Oh, you're being really silly with your tongue out and stuff like that." >> Yeah. So, based on based on our conversation and you know, you explaining um you know, kind of there's two sides to this. There's a a egregious, what I would call or describe as a monster, right? Uh but there's the other side of that that is an overstressed person overreacting to a situation or reacting to a situation that causes, you know, um an injury to a child. >> Oh, she's not injured. >> What's that? >> She's not injured, man. There's there's no coming back. They straight up said she didn't have enough air on her brain. That's that's she's going to die. Whether it's today, whether it's a week from now, we don't know. But there's there's no chance for her to >> Okay. And even even even in in death, >> Andrew continues to insist that he has explained what happened, while detectives make clear that they are still trying to understand how Evelyn suffered such serious injuries. The interview grows more difficult as they revisit the same account. For now, the central question remains. Does the explanation fit the evidence? >> in death, I think that there's two sides to this situation. There's egregious and there's someone who's overstressed. >> Mhm. >> I think that you fall into the overstressed side of that. >> Yeah. >> But I have to know what happened. >> Mhm. >> And it and again, I'm not a doctor, but based on my conversation with the doctor there, um um this is not consistent with just a baby falling. >> Falling, yeah, and hitting their head, yeah. I understand. >> So, what else could have happened? >> Don't know, man. I I told you everything. I've literally I She doesn't love this position. The position that she likes being held in is with her legs facing out, so that she her head is against my chest, and that she she feels better in that position, right? I don't know if I don't know if it's more stimulating. I don't understand. She doesn't like this position, and I know that, but I was trying to assess what had happened, right? >> Mhm. >> And I can't tell because, like I said, the busted lip, the the mark on her chin, like how? Cuz, yeah, everyone tells you babies bounce, babies, you know, uh they just bounce and they get right back up, right? >> Um so, I have a form that I fill out, um and your fiance was able to help me answer most of it, uh but I'd like to go over that form with you, and um and answer the questions that he has no ability to. Are you willing to do that? Okay. Prior to that, I'd like to know, you know, kind of how your morning started, what >> My morning started >> Let's Let's start with last night. So, last night from dinner time on, kind of walk me through how you got to where you are now. >> Uh from dinner on, it's she was kind of fussy, not like crazy. It was more like she was sleeping, not napping, wanted attention, and she had this habit of >> What time was that? >> 6:30 or 7:00 at night. >> Last night? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Uh but she has a habit of going rigid. When she does that, she usually arches herself or she has a foot hold. Uh, uh, usually we're holding her when that would happen. But, uh, she managed to kind of arch herself on her back a little. So, we got her resituated and I got her up. Well, it's about time for bed anyways. And I get ready and I get them ready for bed on before so there's no chance of throwing up, no chance of me working with Darcy and her going rigid. Uh, oops. I get her and changed, clean her butt, I give her her and and we play a little bit and get her dressed in her sleeper and then we swap swaddling her up and get her more calmed down and ready >> Now detectives turn to Danielle, Elin's mother, for another interview. She was at work when Andrew called about their daughter. And now investigators need to understand what she knew about the events leading up to that moment. As she walks them through the family's routine, listen closely to what she remembers and what detectives still need to make sense of. >> calmed down and ready for bed. I have a little vibrating chair that's for Elin and she'll lay in that while and her butt, get play a little bit cuz they usually don't want to get in bed right away. >> Uh-huh. >> And get her dressed in her sleeper, get her swaddled up, swaddled up and we lay down and we I get them to lay down at least 15 minutes and then they're in their deep sleep. And then I lay them in their cribs. And they were they were good from that point until I woke up about 2:30, 3:00 and then I got up, I got dressed, I left for work. >> So, they were asleep when you left for work. Didn't wake up at all throughout the night. >> No, and that's normal for them actually. They usually sleep through the night. Um and then I obviously don't know anything was wrong until he calls me and tells me that >> Okay. So, that was done through a phone call. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Cuz I was I was already logged on at work and I work at Because they made a move, I now work over uh Bayfront in Murray. >> Okay. Um so how long has this been the routine where you uh you get up at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, you leave, he's responsible for >> It's been that way since I want to say September 16th when I went back to work. >> Sorry to interrupt. They were going to let family come back for a quick visit. Is it okay if I borrow Mom >> Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> How do you think uh Andrew's been dealing with it? >> I know he has he questions himself a lot. >> Yeah. >> But he's doing good. >> Okay. Okay. >> Um >> Nothing about this conversation is accusatory and I think he may be construing it that way just because of the stress of, you know, being with detectives. >> Just the overall anytime we're getting an update. >> Yeah. >> And the fact that it happened with him. I know he's been struggling when it comes to like calming him down, but usually he does pretty okay. Uh but he's never been rough. He's never been >> Has he ever said, "I can't do this. Take him >> Yes. >> Okay, so he knows when to walk away. >> Yes, he does. >> So what do you think his reaction would be is if that's not an option for him to just walk away? >> He would He would lay her down in her crib and walk away. Like he wouldn't take that chance and like you know, I need a minute. You I can't help you if you're still crying. He lays him down and he walks away. >> They typically so sometimes there's outliers in every situation. Uh has he ever broken anything or punched holes in the wall or anything like that? >> he has on the door. On our our closet door. Um but he's only done that He's only hit it twice in the I want to say it's been like 4 years that we've been married. >> What What caused that? >> It was typically we were in an argument and it just kept instead of us reaching any sort of agreement, it just kept boiling and boiling. >> He hit it twice in the same time or was that two different instances? >> two separate instances. >> Okay. Do you don't you don't remember what the cause was though? >> I don't remember what the fights were about exactly. >> But they were for sure both in a fight. >> Yeah. >> Okay. What time was it like during the day, at night? >> at night. >> Was he like you guys in bed or >> We were in bed. It was after after dinner but before bed type of time frame there. Uh >> How close in time were they? >> How far apart? Far apart in time. >> Like days, weeks, months? >> Years. Like I think first was when we first moved into the house together and then second time was maybe a year ago. >> Okay. >> I mean they're very few and far like he's not like he's not a violent mean anyway shape or form. >> Okay. Um Do you Would you consider him honest in your relationship? >> Yes. >> Are you honest with him in your relationship? Okay. So, neither one of you keep secrets from each other. There's no um uh There's no secrets from each other. >> Yeah. Um pretty much our arguments are mainly just over finances. >> Yeah, I'm not >> We're trying to figure that out. >> Right. Not Not finances or not not arguments. I'm just saying do you Do you feel like um Would you be comfortable going to him and talking to him about anything? >> And do you feel like he would be comfortable talking to you about anything? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um so, if he did something to hurt your daughter, do you think he would say something to you? >> I am 100% believe he would say something to me. >> And he hasn't done that, right? Okay. >> As detectives >> As detectives examine Andrew's explanation, Danielle describes how strongly Evelyn could push and arch her body. But investigators remain concerned about whether a fall could explain the severity of her injuries. The medical findings would later bring a devastating answer. >> I wasn't out at your house, but they sent me a picture of the of the changing table, and it's concave in the middle. >> That's the the bed. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so outside perspective, it doesn't make sense that >> she'd be able to push herself. >> Correct. >> I can say with all honesty, she a lot stronger than what other people give her credit for being. >> Yeah. >> But I've I've seen her push herself from like if she was laying right here, and she did her rigid stance, and she pushed off from here, she'd launch launch herself at least halfway across. It it was easy for her to get up. And when I say she'd go pretty fast, I really do mean she'd go like that. >> Yeah. So, so our role in this is to number one, figure out exactly what happened to your daughter, but number two is uh to protect, you know, your other daughter. Uh and what based on based on kind of what you're saying, you feel like your Do you feel like your daughters are safe with him? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I've always felt that they were safe with him. Okay. Even now, I still feel like they're safe with him. Because I know accidents can happen. >> Yeah, and that's kind of how him and I talked. I explained that accidents do happen. >> Yeah. >> But typically, um it's just the it doesn't make sense to me that a 3-ft fall on the carpet is going to is going to hurt someone that bad, right? >> Yeah. >> Does that Does that question come up in your mind? I'm not trying to put anything in your mind, but >> It doesn't because I know it's the hard underneath that carpet. And I as soft as the carpet may feel, >> Yeah. >> it's it's not >> Is there no padding under it? >> I think there is a padding under it. I don't know what kind of padding. And then it's just that spot right there where it meets the hardwood there, it's changing table's not all the way up against the wall, but there's enough room that she could have hit that hardwood floor there, too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and she could have even hit part of the changing table on her way down. >> Right. So, um you had an opportunity to to see her. Did you see any injuries on her? >> Um other than where I saw it right here underneath her chin, or I mean, that could have been being loaded up in the ambulance and going, it but I didn't see anything. >> After watching both interviews, what do you think really happened to Evelyn? Andrew tells his side and Danielle shares what she remembers. Do their stories add up, or is something still missing? Take a closer look and share your thoughts in the comments. And for more real interrogation breakdowns, like the video and subscribe to Verdict Interrogation.