This is the strongest opening because the interrogation immediately moves from uncertainty to something much darker. The investigator doesn't simply ask whether Jared killed the victim. They gradually expose what authorities already know they're looking for. The mother's answers also establish the central psychological conflict. She is defending her son while simultaneously giving investigators information that could implicate him. Her repeated reliance on phrases such as he said creates distance between herself and the allegations. The tension rises when Jared's alleged version is presented as an accident followed by panic. But psychologically, the important question becomes, if it was truly an accident, why did he allegedly drive around with the remains and try to dispose of evidence? That question becomes the thread running through the rest of the interrogation. >> You know what I mean? >> Okay. I mean, I would like to help. I don't I don't know what you you need from me. >> Well, I I'll tell you, maybe this will help you to decide, too. We really There's There's certain things that we are desperately looking for, and we have been looking for since day one, and we're still looking, and we're scouring with every resource that we can. We're looking for body parts. >> We're looking for weapon. We're looking for >> I can tell you that I don't know where it's at. I don't know where it's at. I asked my son and he said he was driving around all over and got rid of it. I said I asked him where and he said I don't know. I was just driving all over the place. I said, "Was it in Grand Rapids?" I don't know. I said, "What is it near Grand Rapids?" "I don't know." I said, "What about the gun?" I don't know. I got rid of it. I don't know. [clears throat] >> I don't know. He's >> Does he say Does he say if he put him in like throw him in a wooded area in a garbage? >> It sound like he put thrown in a garbage. >> Okay. >> And I don't know where. this uh we've we've had a couple meetings with this girl's mom and I I don't need to explain to you. >> I know. I feel like been guilty feeling guilty about this whole thing since day one. >> And I'm trying to put myself in her shoes. And >> if I had that information, I would definitely get that out. But and I one of the things I asked him and he doesn't he doesn't know he would go all over the place. >> He's driving around. I don't know. >> In what car does he say? >> He didn't tell me what car. >> Okay. Um, do you mind telling me what he did tell you? Can you tell me what he told you? >> He said there was an accident that they they had been drinking and they were playing with the gun. She had the gun and it went off shot and she got shot in the face in the cheek. And I said she um she he was pretty sure she was gone and he panicked. He panicked. He didn't know what to do. This he was really scared. Somebody didn't kill her mom. It went off. And >> who was holding the gun when it just went off? >> She was. >> That's what he told you. >> Yeah, cuz I said cuz I said, "Did you kill her?" He said, "No, mom. I would never kill anybody. I would never kill anybody. She was my friend. I wouldn't have done that." But they I don't know if they were drinking and using drugs. I don't know. >> Does he say when, what day or what? roughly what time of day or when it >> I think it the impression I got was it was Thursday but I don't that's >> what gave you that idea cuz that that's >> we're curious about that day >> cuz he was um he called me on Friday and said he lost his job and I think when on Saturday I asked him my school when did I mean Sunday I asked him I When did all this stuff happen? I thought I said it was Thursday night. >> Okay. [snorts] >> And I said, "Why?" I said, "What's going on? Why?" You know, he said, "Well, was trying to kill himself, trying to overdose himself." >> He was trying to do that after the fact or done everything. and he wanted to just try to find a way to kill himself. >> Okay. Um, so he he tells you he didn't know what to do and you would ask him did you did you kill her and he tells you no. >> Do do you believe him? >> Yes, I do. The way he told me I do believe him. I do believe him. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Does he does he tell you what he did after this? What did he say? He said he he drove around for a while and came back and then made the bad decision to try to protect I guess to get rid of the evidence way and I don't even want to talk. I can't even say that. >> Okay. >> And but I did know the details how much told me about the hands and feet and I didn't know about other parts. >> So we told you the hands and the feet and you didn't know about the head. What did you say? >> I he then he told me about the head and I said why? So I don't He was crying. He was sobbing. >> When did he tell you this? >> That was Sunday. Sunday morning after he woke up. >> Okay. Who was with you when he told you? >> Um first he wouldn't tell me. He said I can't tell you. I can't tell you. So I told his brother and then he came back upstairs and he told me and my husband I I think my husband was on the porch or coming in from the porch and they said, "Well, but then we have to take you to the police department." >> Mhm. Did you go straight from h from home to the police department? Did you go somewhere else? >> Straight there. >> Mhm. Was there did you stop at any point at store before or after >> No. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> Come home. >> No. >> And then so he spent the night at your house Saturday night. >> Okay. >> We found some stuff in your house. >> I know. >> I know. I went when or how that got there. The only thing is because um [clears throat] I did see his backpack and he he must have had the stuff in the backpack cuz everything else was left in the car. And when I saw his backpack, see what's today? Tuesday. Yeah. Been like t Tuesday night. Last Tuesday night or Wednesday, it was empty. Okay. >> So, it was sitting there. It was empty. And then we put it over there in the dining room. >> You said everything else was in the car. What do you remember being in the car? >> Bag like a bag of like garbage. Some boxes they put in there. >> More than one box. >> Yeah. Maybe about three. >> Okay. Do you remember like cardboard boxes or the metal plastic tote? >> No. No. I think they're cardboard. >> Okay. I was sitting in the front so I didn't see everything. >> Mhm. >> From what I that's >> Do you remember cuz cardboard boxes can be like you know the brown cardboard box and then some of them are like shipping containers with for specific product with so it's got like some colors on it. Maybe a design of pictures and stuff. Do you did you notice anything like that? >> Okay. >> But more than one cardboard box. >> Yeah. More than two. >> Could have been. >> Okay. >> Could have been. >> And then where did how did those get in your your car? >> Well, Jerry brought most of them down and then he asked for help. So, my husband and Conrad helped put stuff in the car >> from the apartment. >> Okay. Um and then drove back home. Right. >> You were you driving or you passing? >> I was driving. >> Okay. What? [snorts] How did you know he even go over there? >> Go to his house. He called me. He was panicking. >> He was panicking. >> He was panicking. He said, "You got to get over here right away, Mom. Please come." And uh I said, "What's going on?" He said, "I I just got to I got to get out of here." >> And what day was that? >> That was Saturday morning. >> Saturday morning. Okay. Um, prior to Saturday morning, when's the last time you had spoken to Jared? >> Um, Friday night. >> Friday night. >> That's when he said to u that he'd lost that he had been fired. >> Oh, he told you. Was that in person or over the phone? >> No, over the phone. >> Okay. Did he call your phone that night or Mr. Chance or not remember? >> I can't remember. >> So then Saturday morning he calls. >> Right. >> He sounds You think panicky is the word you use? >> Yeah. like you're paranoid. And so >> you go to Excuse me. You go to his house, >> right? >> Okay. Um somebody go knock on a door, ring a doorbell, call. >> No. Well, we I said I was out front and he said, "Well, pull up, come up to the back of the house." And first I didn't want to. He said, "It's okay. put sand or dirt on the driveway cuz I was afraid it was [clears throat] pretty steep. >> Okay. >> So I said, "Okay." He said, "I got to put stuff in the car. I got some stuff." >> Did you even get out? >> Okay. Mr. Chance got out. >> He might have to help. >> And then uh Conrad He asked Conrad to help him. >> To help. Yeah. >> Okay. Couple boxes. You remember anything else that got put in there? >> A mop. >> A mop. Okay. Um, he gets in the car with you. >> Mhm. >> And you returned to Holland right away. >> Right. Although I I think and then I forgot the things because I didn't remember till later on till I found a uh a receipt. I had to go to the bathroom and I stopped at Costco and so we all got out of the car, buddy. All right. Let me think here. What do you remember Jared doing at Costco? Did he >> He went to the um he went in with my husband and and Connor and they got something to eat at the food cart. >> I'm thinking the Costco in Granville. Yeah. >> By the mall there. That's not Costco I know of. >> Right. >> So that would have been Saturday >> after you picked them up. >> Right. I need to go to the bathroom. So then they decided to get something to eat and we all got back to the car and the car was locked. >> Okay. Did he carry anything in the hospital? Not even a bag. >> Okay. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Um about a shower curtain. Did you ever see a shower curtain? >> I don't know. >> Don't remember saying that. >> Don't know. >> Okay. So return to Holland, >> right? And then there are some things unloaded out of the Honda. Okay. Tell me tell me where where'd you park? What where >> I parked out. I I think I put the car in the garage and locked it up. >> And all those things that he made >> put in there, directed to be put in there stayed in there overnight, >> right? Except I think he did. >> Investigators show her a saw and ask whether she has seen it before. She repeatedly says she doesn't remember it, even suggesting that if it belonged to the family, Jared may have taken it long ago. The investigator then connects the saw to the Saturday morning pickup. The conversation then shifts when she describes Jared as panicked, irritable, and manic, saying he needed to get rid of stuff. Psychological commentary. This is a major shift because the questioning becomes object-based rather than purely verbal. Instead of asking what happened, investigators introduce a physical item and watch her response. Her repeated, "I don't remember" is important, not necessarily as proof of deception, but as a clear defensive position. She avoids committing herself to either knowing or not knowing the saw. Then comes the more revealing moment. Jared reportedly says he needs to get rid of stuff. The investigator allows the mother to explain what she thought that meant. Her response is essentially, "Whatever it is, I don't want to be involved." That creates an interesting psychological contradiction. She claims she did not know what was inside the materials. Yet she immediately understood that whatever Jared wanted removed could potentially create trouble. >> Take out his backpack with him. You know that he had clothes in there or what? >> Mhm. I'm going to show you the saw that we Okay. I want I want to ask you if you've seen this before. skill saw. This picture I got. This is your couch in your living room. Have you ever seen this song? Don't remember. I don't remember. But if it if it's ours, I don't remember having that. If it was ours, he might must have come and be taken it a long time ago, but I don't remember it. >> The question they'll get asked of me is, is there any chance that when you went to get him Saturday morning, was this taken to him? You know what I mean? >> He called you up Saturday morning panicky. Did he You didn't You didn't take this saw to him? >> No. >> Okay. You, best of your knowledge, have you ever touched this saw? >> Not that I remember. >> Okay. >> I don't remember seeing it. I don't remember if it's even ours. I mean, I don't know where. It just doesn't look familiar to me. >> Okay. I've reached out to to Skill and I' had a couple conversations. We're trying to track this saw and the origins of it. So, >> you never seen it? >> I don't remember seeing I don't remember us having anything like that. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Okay. >> So, >> um so Saturday you you arrive back at the house, he doesn't say. Did you ever It's got to be He's panicky when you when he when he calls, right? >> Was there what was the discussion after you pick him though? He said he didn't want to talk about but he I knew he'd been drinking and using something and he was irritable and um manic like >> manic meaning I'm trying to think what man manic would be >> kind of you know just don't just leave me alone he know just he didn't want to be bothered and I said what's going on and I just got to get rid of stuff and that and I knew that I Well, whatever's in here, I'm not getting rid of nothing. >> You said I got to get rid of the stuff that says on the right back. I'm not going to get rid of nothing. >> What? When he says that, what's the first thought that >> other said, "Well, what's going on?" He says, "Nothing really." >> H [clears throat] And he told you the day before he'd gotten fired, >> right? >> And then he makes that comment, but you said, "I'm not getting rid of anything." And in my mind, I'm thinking I'm not going to get rid of God cuz I don't know what's in what any of this stuff is and I'm don't want to be involved in it. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> At that moment, were you considering it could be absolutely anything? >> It could have been anything. Yeah. I didn't know. >> Did Did it enter your mind at that time that it could be body parts in these boxes? >> No. >> That Well, that didn't enter your mind. >> No. >> But certainly you an open mind, >> right? Yeah. What What is it that he he wants to get rid of? >> Mhm. >> I'm [clears throat] thinking I don't know what it is, but I >> I'm not going to throw anything out, throw anything away. I don't want >> Mhm. >> I don't want to be involved in that, whatever it is. >> Okay. So, he's not saying a whole lot. He made it. That's kind of an odd comment. And you even acknowledge, man, that doesn't make sense. What's that all about? Did you you push him or anything more or did you say >> Oh, I did say I said what's going on? Did you kill somebody or something? He said, "No, I didn't kill anybody." >> That's even Friday on the way back. >> That's Saturday. >> Oh, Saturday. >> Saturday. Yeah. When >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Saturday. We were on Sunday. Friday's when we called you until you got fired. This Saturday, >> right? >> You even say, "Did you kill somebody?" He's acting that made you think that. >> Well, no. It's just the way that he was putting all this that when I see this mob, I'm thinking, "What the heck? H. [clears throat] >> So, >> have you seen an act like this before? >> It's hyper. Yeah, kind of hyper. >> When was when was the occasion before when he was acting like this? >> Usually when he's under the influence of drugs. >> Okay. That's not a battle of his. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Heroin, cocaine. Do you have any idea? Meth? >> No. I mean, he had gotten off all that stuff. He had been doing so great. So great. He's such a different person. And then it all came back in big time. >> Worse. >> Worse. Worse than it probably ever did. And I don't know what I I know there was alcohol. I think there was weed, I think. And then he was on uh on some uh what they call Xanax, which makes him very manic. >> Was he prescribed that or was he able to get it? Cuz sometimes I may get dead stuff, >> right? Okay. >> I think he got that, but also his ex-girlfriend had a problem with that and he gotten some from her. >> Okay. >> So, Saturday on the way back, you're seeing I mean, question I was thinking, when did when did you get a sense that he was back using again? >> Investigators returned to Jared's statement that he needed to get rid of things. The mother says this prompted her to ask whether he had killed somebody. Jared allegedly responds repeatedly that he would never kill anyone. The questioning then moves into the Saturday timeline, including when they returned home and Jared sleeping for much of the day. Psychological commentary. This is one of the most revealing exchanges because the question itself becomes significant. The mother didn't merely ask what happened. She reportedly jumped to did you kill somebody? That suggests that Jared's behavior had already created enough suspicion in her mind for that possibility to enter the conversation. Then comes the repeated denial. I didn't do that. I wouldn't kill anybody. The repetition is psychologically interesting because the investigator later explicitly notices how many times the denial was repeated. Repetition alone doesn't establish guilt, but under pressure, people can become increasingly focused on denying the specific accusation rather than explaining the surrounding circumstances. The interrogation then moves into the timeline, forcing the story to become more concrete. He got back with the girlfriend because he wasn't calling. >> How how long ago was that? >> Oh, good. Two, three months ago. >> And he stopped calling the house. >> And then when I would stop over there where he was very warm and and compassionate and, you know, really happy to see us, he was his personality was changed, >> was different. It's like I knew that he probably was starting to use something. And then [clears throat] Saturday when he gets in, you're you smell alcohol and you're getting a sense it's more than just alcohol. He's been using something too. Did you ask him if he'd been using or what he drank or >> I just knew. >> Mhm. >> And then Yeah. >> Okay. So he says, "Uh, I just need to get rid of some stuff." And then it prompts a question. Did you kill somebody? And he says he said no. He told you no. >> I said, "No, mom. I never would kill anybody. I wouldn't." I mean, he's crying. No, I would never kill anybody. I wouldn't do that that Sunday morning when he was probably more sober. >> But you answer it like many times like like what you just said. If you asked me, I'd say no. But if I said no, I wouldn't do that. I I didn't do that. I wouldn't do that. It's repetitive. >> He just said, "No, I wouldn't do that. I would never kill anybody." >> The mother describes Jared crying and telling her that he had tried to overdose himself. Then she reveals that he allegedly told her he had cut off the victim's feet, hands, and head. Investigators immediately focus on the crucial unanswered question. Where did he put them? She says he claimed he drove around and eventually put them in garbage or trash cans, but couldn't identify where. Psychological commentary. This is the central revelation of the interrogation. The emotional atmosphere changes completely. The investigator is no longer trying to establish whether something happened. The conversation now concerns what happened to the remains. Notice the questioning strategy. Investigators don't immediately accuse the mother of hiding anything. Instead, they ask her to reconstruct Jared's movements. The repeated uncertainty he drove around, he didn't know where, he couldn't remember, creates a major investigative problem. Then, investigators returned to the shooting itself and asked what Jared said happened immediately afterward. The mother says he claimed he couldn't believe it and knew the victim was gone. The psychological tension now comes from the gap between Jared's alleged accidental shooting story and the subsequent deliberate handling of the body. He said I couldn't I couldn't kill anybody. I couldn't do that. >> Okay. And then I think I asked you when you get back to Holland maybe took his backpack in. Whether or not you believe everything. >> Yeah. Everything else was locked up. As far as I knew it was locked up. I had my purse upstairs when I went to bed and uh it was in the garage. Besides the Costco stop, were there any other stops? >> I don't remember cuz I thought about getting gas, but but you still had plenty of gas. >> Specifically like a liquor store, remember? Nothing. >> Okay. >> No. >> Um, you said you went to bed Saturday. Everything's locked up. What roughly what time would that have been? >> Probably about 8:30, but 9. >> Jared had fallen asleep early. He kind of slept all day. So when you so when you get back to it's still pretty early on Saturday. >> Um yeah probably um probably around noon I'm on I'm not sure. >> And he slept you said most of that and then at 8:30 he's still sleeping. Yeah, he he was down with my other son in his room for a while and then he came up and and slept in the in the living room >> on the couch. >> On the couch. >> Okay. Any idea if he left that night? >> Not that I know of. I don't I so I didn't hear it usually. >> And how about from the time you got home to the time that you call it a night? Did he leave anywhere? Did he go up by himself or did Conrad he go anywhere >> during the day after you arrived back at Holland on Saturday until the time that you go to call it a night at 8:30 when it was dark? [snorts] >> Did they leave anywhere? >> I didn't think they didn't. I I remembered that they did. I forgot all about that. They went over to friend of Jared's for just a little bit. They walked over to her house. >> What's her name? >> Her name is Stephanie. I don't know her last name. And uh but I didn't see them carrying any. >> No. No bags, nothing. >> Mm-m. They're walking together. Nope. >> Okay. >> They stopped. They went over there and then they probably were back in 15 minutes. >> Well, it was quick. >> It was quick. Yeah. So, >> they they drove >> they walked >> was walking distance. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, then Sunday morning, he drops this bombshell on you. Um, you told me what he what he said to you and he's crying. You said >> he's sobbing. He's sobbing. He said, "I felt terrible. I I tried to kill myself last night, but I or Friday night. I tried to overdose, but I woke up. I lived." And you said you didn't want to talk about what he did, but can you tell me a little bit about what he said to you that he cut off her feet, her feet and her hands and her head? >> And then this is the big issue for us. What did he do with them? What did he say? >> When I asked him and I said, "Where are they?" He said, "I drove around with them. I drove him around and then I got rid of them and put them in garbage or trash cans or something. I said, "Where?" He didn't know. >> He didn't know. Did he say what car he was driving in? He Okay. All right. That would include all the body parts or does he does he separate? Okay. I did that with those. But >> what do you think? Well, you have a you have a hunch. Yeah. Well, I'm assuming it's the feet. The feet, the hands, and the head. [snorts] Wherever he threw up, put them. I don't know. >> There's no I mean, I guess I'm asking you to switch places with me. If you were in my position, is there any place that you would say, "Hey, >> you got to go check this area because this is a place that he's known to frequent before or anything like that." with him being up in Grand Rapids. I don't know. And if he had been under the influence driving, I don't know if and he said, "I don't know where I was. I'm just driving around." Driving around. >> Okay. And he told me that his version of is that she was messing with the gun and shot herself in the cheek. Um, does he say what he did immediately after that? You said he drove around, but that's not like I'm talking about right now immediately as this happens. What did he say he did? The first thing he did or the first couple things he did. >> He just said he couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe it. And he it scared him, but he didn't say what he did immediately. But I said, "Well, what she did?" And he said, "Yeah." I said, "Well, how could you tell?" is I knew I knew she was gone. >> Does he say he was in the room with her when it happened? [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Does he say anybody else was there? >> He doesn't anybody else. >> Okay. [snorts] >> Um someday when he tells you this and you're you're being a mom and I be the same way. I'm asking questions like no can ever ask, right? Right. >> I need to know. Right. >> What did you say he did with the gun? >> He said he got rid of it, >> but I don't know where he where it went. >> Any chance it's on your property anywhere? You think? >> Cuz I asked him that morning. I said, "Where is it?" He said, "I got rid of it." >> All right. To you, that means not on your property. I would hope not. >> Not, >> right? I mean, it was I tell you what, we were stunned when we left your place. >> Oh, yeah. >> We were stunned. >> I was stunned, too, because I would never have thought that stuff was there. I don't go I wouldn't We're always out on the porch, >> so I don't go in there to even think about it. I mean the Mhm. >> So yeah, it was a big surprise when I saw that on the list of things cuz it's like when did that happen? When we were here how many days? >> Yeah. >> And I'm not >> I won't go into detail about some of that stuff too, but it's >> this is a classic loyalty versus responsibility pressure point. The investigator understands that simply demanding information may make the mother defensive. Instead, he frames the dilemma directly. This is your son, but this is also a serious investigation. The strategy is subtle. He isn't only asking, "What do you know?" He's asking, "Would you tell me if you knew?" That forces her to publicly establish a moral position. Once she says she would tell investigators, the investigator has created a psychological commitment. If later evidence contradicts her answers, that statement becomes much more significant. It's uh we were we were quite amazed with the finds that we had and then sort of the questions that we have follow that. >> Did he ever tell you? I don't want you to I don't as a as a parent if my kids are telling me something. I don't want to I don't want to believe it. I don't I just I can't believe it cuz it's just it's too hard to even imagine. Did he ever tell you that he shot her? Whether it was intentional or not, does he? And and I know he may have said this to you and in and our defense mechanism kick in. It's like, I didn't hear that. What I heard was something different. Is it possible that he told you that he did it? >> No, he was. So, the way he told me, "No, mom, I did not kill her. I would never kill anyone. Um, how about a cell phone? It's not his. Can you tell me anything about a cell phone that doesn't belong to him? I know we found the one in your kitchen or whatever, but and I know I heard about later I heard about the the club down in Kazoo. I think he left the phone down. >> That was my son's phone. >> That was that was phone. >> Okay. And then whose wallet got left down there? >> That was Jar's cuz Jared left the wallet there, too, which we didn't know. >> I think left his phone. >> Well, yeah, Jared left his phone in his wallet there. >> Okay. >> So, we went down there and to get the phone and the wallet was there, too. >> Okay. So, >> yeah, I heard that after the fact. We sent some some duck was down there. >> Uh then they verified that part of it. Yeah. >> All right. Um any phones that our kids were looking for her phone? >> Oh, >> did he they say anything about getting rid of that? >> No. I would assume that he would have left it. I Well, I don't know because when he got in the car and said, "Where's your phone?" And he said, "I left it in the house in the apartment." So, I don't know. I didn't even think about asking about her phone. >> Okay. What kind of phone did he have? He >> had an iPhone. the new newer one or I mean [clears throat] Okay. And then what is your phone? What's your and your husband's phone are very close, >> right? >> Yours ends in a six or a seven. >> I think mine is a So mine's a seven. >> Yours is like 1177. >> Oh, his is Mine's 76. His is 77. >> Okay. Yours is 1176. His is 1177. Okay. >> [snorts] >> When he calls you on Friday, he calls from a number you recognize as his phone, >> right? >> Okay. Did he call you on Saturday? Do you remember a phone call >> that morning? >> Okay. How how would a Friday morning phone call? That's what I mean. To get a Friday morning phone call. >> Not that I remember. >> No. >> Do you remember? Would you have been with Mr. Chance on Friday morning? >> Probably. Okay. I'll tell you, we see a we see a very lengthy phone call from Jared's phone to Mr. Chance's phone. Right. >> Oh, you know what? I do remember. I asked Jim because I knew that Jared had been depressed and I asked him to call him and talk to him and see how he was doing. >> Okay. So, they call maybe from Mr. Chance to Jared, >> right? Yeah. >> Were you Was that a speaker call? Did you hear any of that part of it? >> No. And maybe and it could have been Jim called him and he didn't answer and so he called Jim back. >> Could be. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. If you knew something relevant, would you tell me? I This is your son. This is your son we're talking about. You're in a bad spot. >> And and I I get a sense you understand the complexity of what we're trying to do for this family, too. >> If if you didn't know, would you tell me? >> I would. I I don't know what else. I know nothing where he put it because I asked him. He said, "I don't know where where I was. [clears throat] >> I was just driving around, driving around." I said, "Where's the gun?" I got rid of it. I I just got rid of the I can assume when he was driving around. I don't know. >> Okay. Do you know where he got that to begin with? When did you When did you hear he had a gun? >> I [clears throat] know he had a gun. when I first heard maybe three weeks ago or so and so somewhere around then >> no idea where he got it or >> I said why would you want to get a gun he says it's you can't live in this neighborhood to protect yourself >> so >> yeah I can only I don't know what kind of relationship be I would share it your mother son I know it's I know it's close and I I think it's possible that it's more a hypothetical sense Maybe it holds true in this that if he would have done it, do you think he would have could he have told you that? I mean, I I don't know that he'd want to totally disappoint you. I mean, obviously the news of of dismembering's bad enough, but >> um you think he would shield you from that? Is that a possibility? >> Yeah. No, I think he would have told me. I think he would have told me because I could tell just by the look of his face and the way he was talking. >> Okay. Does he ever talk about I know the gun? So he got rid of the gun, but how about like the bullets and stuff like that? Does he ever share with you what he did with that? >> The bullets. >> The bullets for the gun. >> I don't know anything about >> that never came up in your discussion with him. [clears throat] >> All right. Um, and far as you know, he's only had been about 3 weeks. >> As far as I know, >> okay. >> He could have had it longer and I didn't know about it. He doesn't always tell me everything. >> How long has he lived in that apartment? >> A little over a year. >> Okay. Has he ever had any roommates? >> He's had a girlfriend off and on. [clears throat] >> Tori, that right first name. Okay. I haven't met her. I heard the name. >> Right. >> All right. So, Tori lived there for a while. >> Yeah. Well, she been out. She said they broke up. >> Broke up and then he got clean and he got did was so well. So, so well just a completely different person. And then she came back into his life and she moved back in and they were together maybe I don't know a couple of months and she moved out maybe a month ago. Have you ever met [clears throat] this Ashley? >> No. >> Ever heard him talk about her? >> Just the one time that he picked her up for or she picked him up from he driven the car into a ditch when she picked him up. >> Okay. >> But he said they were friends. >> Okay. That was pretty recent, right? When he put his car in a ditch. Okay. Would that be that Pontiac G6 or whatever it is? >> Yeah. >> Does that car even run now? Do you know? >> I don't know. Cuz if he asked you to come pick him up, could he have possibly just drove it out to your house? >> With that car? >> With that car? >> I don't think so. It doesn't have any plates on it. >> No, it didn't. >> Yeah. So, >> okay. So, it's probably street legal, >> right? >> Okay. So far, as you know, he wouldn't have drove that. >> I don't think so. He would have probably been picked up. So, I don't think so. Saturday when uh you go get them. Did you stop at any other cars? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Tell me about that. >> He stopped. It was like four blocks over and and uh he opened up a trunk and pulled down a box and he had kind of to help him and he put it in the car. This is where the interrogation becomes much more psychologically sophisticated. The investigator deliberately withholds specific case facts. He tells her in effect that there are things he knows but cannot reveal. That creates uncertainty. She knows investigators have found something but she doesn't know exactly what they know. Then comes the emotional pressure. You're in a bad spot. He frames her conflict as a choice between protecting her son and doing what is right for the victim's family. The mother continues insisting that she would tell them if she knew anything. The investigator then pushes the hypothetical further. What if Jared himself actually killed her? Her response is immediate. She says she would tell them either way. That makes this segment especially valuable because the investigator has moved from gathering facts to testing her moral boundary. >> What do you remember about that box? >> I said, "What's in the box?" And he said, "It's a bunch of Tori's clothes. >> I want to get rid of them." Okay. >> Okay. Had you already been to the house? >> Yeah. So the the truck was a little loaded up already. >> Already he had some stuff. Yeah. >> Or he had some stuff in there. But where did he put this this box that came out? >> I think he I think he may have put it in the back seat. >> You remember I asked the same question. Cardboard box or plastic to me from what I could see it looked like a cardboard box >> and then the fact that Conrad helped him. Was it a bigger box? >> Well, any big I guess. Do >> you remember it being uh any particular color? >> Color of cardboard from when I just >> plain brown cardboard. Okay. So, that gets put in and you think maybe in the back seat between the between the boys, right? >> Okay. Um, and it stayed in in the in the truck overnight Sunday when he tells you this news, you come straight to the police department. They say all this stuff is still on the Honda, >> right? We were hoping that the police would come out and, >> you know, hold them so that we could get stuff situated. >> And when [clears throat] it didn't happen, I it's like, well, now what do we do? What did you do? >> We went went back to his apartment and got it out of the car. >> Any idea what was in those boxes at any time? >> Well, no. No, I knew the mob he must have used to clean clean up what he did, but I didn't know what was in the boxes. I know that I still th it was a clear bag. >> Well, can you see through it? >> From what I could tell from what was in the back, I thought was clear, too. >> Okay. Could you Could you tell what was in it or said the mop? Was the mop actually in the bag or was separate? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Anything you could tell that was in that bag? >> Just a lot of garbage, paper, wrappers, you know, I didn't really >> It was just full. >> Okay. >> I couldn't tell. I If there was I didn't see anything that was bloody that I was aware of. >> Who uh how did he get from the Honda back into the apartment? >> Well, I don't know if Jerry took it in or somebody else. Jeremy kind of helped them take it back up. >> How about you personally? Did you get out of the Honda at all? Did you pull back behind it again? Behind the house? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we brought that back stairwell, not the front stairwell, >> right? >> All right. Was anything left in the Honda after you guys leave that maybe not even know what was in it that you, Conrad, or Mr. Chance got rid of? >> Not that I remember. >> All right. As far as you know, he removed everything out of that. >> I thought everything was out. >> Okay. Did you notice any smell in there? >> Yeah, there was a smell. bad smell. >> But I thought it was the mop. >> You're you're in the medical field, >> right? >> Did it smell like >> smelled stinky? >> Like possibly um representable body. I mean, is that >> like Well, kind of like I don't know, like blood or like stinky because that mop in there. It smelled stinky. >> Mhm. [clears throat] Okay. >> Cuz I've been in the car overnight. >> Yeah. There's some things that I I can't go I can't tell you. There's some some case facts I can't tell you, but I I would ask you to to trust me. There are some things that I've seen inside the apartment that made me question what he told you as being the truth. Okay, that's why it's important. You know, we need in a case like this when we still have the most important thing is body parts that we really want to account for for this this woman. This is this only child. >> Yeah. So, we're really >> right. You want to get >> We're really working doing everything we can to answer those questions for her. >> Not that it helps, but it's important to her. It's important to us. I I know it's important to you, too. Right. Right. Um, is there anything that you can help us with as where we ought to look where we think maybe maybe he just said something is it's triggering or something in your mind you're not certain about >> but it's important for us to get on the right track as quickly as we can in this case >> right >> and this case is different than most I mean this is a very unique case and so >> [clears throat] >> um what What can you tell me that would that would help us that Vance to so we can help get some answers for this mom? >> I wish there was something I I have nothing. He didn't tell me anything else. I don't know. I never went up in his apartment. He He didn't tell me anything more except that he drove around and he didn't know where he was at because I kept asking him, "Are you sure? Was it Wyoming? Was it, you know, around Grand Rabbits?" He said, "I don't know." >> Okay. I don't know. >> All right. And you can't remember a stop something falling a garbage here or there or anything? >> Not that I remember. Not that I saw. I don't recall that. >> Okay. You're in a bad spot. >> I know. I know it. And I >> And I got to imagine it's I don't know. I don't want to put thoughts or words in your mouth, but conflict of this is my son and yet this is the right thing to do. You're in the middle of it. Very squarely in the middle of it. >> So, I don't think I'm asking too much. If if I knew, I would tell you. If I knew, but he didn't tell me. He just said he drove around and didn't even know where he was or he just was driving around. >> What if it meant that Jared is actually the one that killed her? Whether it was intentionally or not, would you still tell me? >> I can tell you either way. Absolutely. [clears throat] >> I don't I don't He never He said he didn't know. I don't know. I would never keep that kind of information. Okay. >> I wouldn't want to keep that kind of information. I wouldn't want that. I wouldn't want that on my conscious. >> It would tear you up. >> It would. >> Yeah. >> That horrible. >> It should tear anyone. >> I would not want to even know. That's why I asked him where it was >> or he put stuff and he said, "I don't know. I was driving all over." [clears throat] >> Okay. We've got we got people I think right now we got cadaver dogs just scouring the city uh everywhere. I mean, they've logged a lot of hours just looking. Um, [snorts] anywhere that we think is a possibility, we're looking. And we've we learned a lot of hours in this, >> right? >> Um, we still have those unanswered questions, so we got to keep pushing. We got to just keep >> keep digging here. >> Um, all right. I'm going to step out for a minute. Do you need anything restroom? >> No. >> All right. I'll be back in just a minute. All right. Um, keep thinking about I know you are and I and I do believe I did. I don't I would never ever do that. I would not I mean he's my son, but I would not hold back on something like that. >> I wouldn't I would definitely tell you. >> Okay. All right. Excuse me for a minute. I'll be right back. Okay. >> Can you tell me about a gas can? Um, yeah, there was a gas can that when Jerry went to go get that car, it was out of gas. >> This is the perfect closing psychological moment because the mother voluntarily produces new information after investigators had already been pressing her for anything she might have forgotten. The shower curtain becomes significant, not simply because of the object itself, but because of when she remembers it. Earlier, she repeatedly said she didn't know what else she could tell investigators. Then after the investigator leaves and returns, she remembers something she hadn't mentioned before. That creates a final question for the audience. Was this genuinely a forgotten detail emerging under stress or was it something she had unconsciously avoided confronting? The interrogation ends with her insisting that she has been as honest as possible while the investigators already appear to have evidence that raises questions about her account. And the final case outcome makes the ending even more consequential. The transcript states that Jared was convicted of seconddegree murder and related charges while his mother later pleaded no contest to accessory after the fact and perjury charges.