for the reason that you think they were. And I think I know. I think it's for your children. I think you really thought this was the best thing to be able to get them money that you need to survive, keep the house, keep the kids. You guys were going to get separated anyhow, Barbara. You know that was coming. >> We had lived in this kind of relationship probably for the last 5 years. >> Mhm. >> Just existing. >> Mhm. And that's not a good place. >> No, it's not. >> Did you want to get divorced and couldn't afford to get divorced? Is that a problem? We That was a conversation I'm sure you had. And >> Right. And I had had that conversation with my two close friends. You know, financially we couldn't separate. Um financially, you know, what would we do with the house? I could afford bills, but I couldn't afford for the kids to have their home, yeah. >> Mhm. >> But I mean, we just existed that way, and that's the way we were. >> May 5th, 2018. Centerville, Iowa. Firefighters enter a burning house and find Tim Pasa in his bed. His wife, Barbara, is already miles away on her way to a track meet. She says she left him sleeping that morning, but the fire raises a question investigators can't ignore. Was Tim already dead when the flames started? As they dig deeper, the timeline begins to fall apart, and Barbara is forced to answer for what happened inside that house. >> Hey, this is Roger. There's a I think a house fire at 828 South Park. >> 828 South Park, okay. >> Yeah. >> You can see the flames? >> There's smoke coming out of an open window and nobody's home. >> Okay, I'll hold the fire department. 828 South Park, right? >> 828 South Park, yep. >> Smoke coming out of the window. All right, I'll let them know. >> Okay. >> All right, thank you. >> Bye. >> The caller confirms what he's seeing. Flames inside the house, smoke pouring through an open window, and no one apparently home. The address is repeated to make sure help goes to the the place. At this point, the call is still about a fire, but the responders are heading toward a scene where someone may already be in danger. >> Okay. There are 411. Let the fire department know that there is a lot of smoke coming out of the east side of the house. Do you know if anybody's home or they all left? Okay. Centerville, also the neighbors say that everybody has been out of the house. When the first responders opened the front door, a dog ran out as heavy black smoke filled the house from floor to ceiling. Here is the body cam footage capturing the scene. >> [clears throat] >> You ready? >> Yeah. >> The firefighters [clears throat] worked their way down the hallway and toward the active flames. The fire was primarily in the master bedroom. >> Got it? >> Got it. I'm good. Here we go. Nothing. We do a search quick for anybody else. Let's go get him. >> What do you think? Mask and fight the fire. I must lost it in there. >> Okay. Um we'll put that to the front of this. >> I think that's what we need to do to clear a lot of you guys. >> All right. All right. They bring him out when they got [ __ ] a bunch of guys up here. We'll hurry up and get him on that car. >> Let's get him out of here so we can fight the fire. >> Yeah, we're going to get that. Okay. >> [snorts] >> That's door is going to be a pain in the ass. >> Yeah, we'll come back and break it. >> We got to bring him in now. We got to go that way. >> Good idea, too. Ready? Come on, guys. >> [laughter] >> Ready? One, two, three. Come on, guys. >> Go in real quick, maybe hit it, and then go do a search of the whole house. >> Okay. >> And then I'll have you back up through if you need help. >> [snorts] >> All right. Back in fire. Yeah, back in fire. >> Right [laughter] here. Here. Here we go. Okay, hall is clear. All right. Kitchen [laughter] clear. All right, I'm going down now. Yep, that's clear. Take it outside. Put it right [laughter] out there. All right. Donny, okay. I'm right here with you guys. Living room clear. I'm going to check up here. Okay, this room clear. Bathroom clear. All right. First floor is clear. We're going to the basement. Basement clear. Yep. I think we're good, Donny. >> I think we are. They just said there's two kids. Are they accounted for? >> Well, they weren't here. I've done quick search of both rooms. I'm going to go do it again. One of the girls, supposedly somebody told me was on a bus to a meet or something somewhere. >> There's two kids, and she was just wanting to make sure that they were accounted for. >> Well, yeah, it'd be Owen and and his sister, Katie. But, I think Katie, I think they said was going to a to a meet somewhere. I don't know about Owen. >> This Tim Pauza had lived in Centerville all his life. He played guitar, worked for Alliant Energy, and was a father who never missed his kids' events. He and Barbara had been married for years, but on May 5th, 2018, firefighters found Tim dead in his bed. A candle was on the bedroom floor and the smoke alarms had their battery compartments open. By the time Barbara got back, investigators were starting to look at the details inside that house. >> [clears throat] >> I don't know. He's not very good. >> I wouldn't mind getting wet. >> You remember me then from yesterday. All right, so my name's Don. So if you remember the BCA, thanks for coming down. I know you got a lot going on and thanks actually for calling the team to come early. Sorry we couldn't get down here earlier. There's officers that walk by. Is it okay if I show this? It's okay. IT'S NOT LOCKED. >> [screaming] >> PUT THAT UP HERE. HOW'S THINGS GOING WITH THE kids and everything today? >> When we filed for the SSI benefits, so that kind of I was trying to be the man of the house, so he's going to be about finances and all that stuff, but >> Mhm. >> for [clears throat] me today is probably the worst day. >> Yeah. Just with everything coming down. >> about what, you know, you figured out what happened and what's going [clears throat] on and I don't know. Yesterday talked about the arrangements and stuff and we're supposed to get a call from He's supposed to have his autopsy maybe today. >> Okay. >> So I've been anxious about that call and I can be cool and collective and nothing bothers me, but this is really got me stressed. Just you know. >> Mhm. >> This processing and having answers and >> Right. So sometimes in cases like this the police department has the fire marshals and then the BCA to come in and kind of help out and try to figure out what's going on. You know, these are sudden. Everybody wants an answer. You're going to want answers. It's kind of what we find. You know, all the kids are going to want answers on what happened with Tim. So we come in with have of we don't know anybody. >> Right. >> You know, so we can ask uh questions and talk to people and we just don't know any history or anything about them, but it's also sometimes a detriment because I don't know you and I got to get a little bit of background on you and I know that's um not the easiest to talk um when somebody passes away, but I think it's important for me to get kind of an understanding of uh the house and kind of the situation in the last weeks and you know, the the morning when you left, um that kind of stuff. So, I'd like to kind of talk about that if you're up to it and kind of go through that. >> Try to do what I can. >> Okay. So, tell me I guess about you and Tim. Have you guys been married very long? >> 18 years. So, we'll we've been 18 years in October. >> Okay. And you work, right? >> Yep. >> Where do you work at? >> I work at Miami Valley Hospital as a nurse. >> What do you do there? >> Um right now I'm a circulator in the OR. >> Sounds fancy. What is that? >> Um basically I do the charting and if they need instruments, I get the instruments and bring the patient back and I'm ready. >> How long have you been up there? Is that here in Centerville? >> Mhm. Um it'll be 5 years in July. I did a um about 12 years of hospice. >> Okay. That's tough. >> I found it rewarding. >> Yeah. >> I've been diabetic since I was 16, so um I need more structure as much as I [clears throat] love the 3 12-hour days. You're not as productive as you think you could be >> Right. >> on those days and just I [snorts] don't know. >> Yeah, I think I saw you must have canceled for that then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Got two healthy kids and >> Yeah. And that's I'm right with that. So, Owen and Kate then. How old are they then? >> Owen um is 16 and Kate will be 15 in June. >> Okay. And uh biological kids with you and Tim then? >> He played in a band. >> Mhm. >> I saw the guitars. >> Yeah. >> Quite the collection. >> Yeah. Played in a band and um my niece actually, we were joking this weekend him and I, but she was currently in a relationship and he was just like, "Uh, no." And so he chased [clears throat] me for a while and I was chasing somebody else and was kind of mean to him. So he should have gotten me into it. >> Right. >> And eventually we went on a couple dates and >> Mhm. >> he was kind of a mommy's boy and he was 30-something when we um got together, so lived right next door to his parents and the only band at that time bands played every weekend. >> Right. >> Two nights a week, so he made decent money to live on but not support family, but >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> so he tended to his mom through the week and played in the bands and Owen was supposed to be our only child cuz I was so high-risk. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> I had to plan him for about a year, but Kate, she was a little accident. >> Yeah. Tim worked, did he? >> His last or he was recently in Alliance, um customer service. So when you called in, he's the one that you yelled at about why your bill was so much or >> Yeah. >> So it was stressful stressful on him, but obviously he had good practice cuz he lived with me and Kate, so >> Yeah. >> I don't think it was that bad. He'd tell me some stories about, you know, phone calls and >> How was things going for him at work and at home? >> Well, he was really stressed at work. >> Um >> At home we'd been married 18 years. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Just kind of getting different We had different interests in life. We'd been doing different stuff and he had been He was playing with a band again and you know, we were just kind of in a lull. We were just kind of hovering. >> Right. Yeah, I just had my 16th anniversary, so I kind of know that you kind of have those ups and downs. I mean, were you guys just like still together or were you guys thinking about >> Well, >> going your separate ways or >> I get >> You know, I always wonder you know, you you always you kind of sometimes you take it out on the other person. >> and you know, I'm just one of those that every time, you know, not just this year or years when we fight, um, I tell him to leave it alone or we would have to lose kids. I don't know that we were super strong and lovey-dovey, but we're still together. >> Okay. >> I'm not sure that happy would describe our relationship, but not unhappy. >> Yeah. >> We just kind of exist together. >> Yeah, so it's like sleep together and everything in the same room. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. >> And the dog. >> Yeah, and the dog. Yeah, your dog got lucky there, didn't he? >> Oh, yeah. >> And then your kids sound like they're active in sports and he's in track. >> Track, um, Owen does soccer, too, and Kate does soccer. >> It's America and it's a tough year for everybody, but I mean, how are you guys sitting that way? >> Well, we probably live paycheck to paycheck. Um, we got behind on our mortgage and had to refinance and you know, some predators, but he stressed that stuff. >> Do you guys think we'll find common ground at least to get that handled? >> He handled the bills for a while and then he got behind. >> Now, investigators are sitting down with Barbara Glasscock to find out what happened that morning. Tim is dead, the fire has raised questions, and they want her to walk them through what happened before she left home. >> He got tired of it and kind of half-assed handed them back to me and then he paid certain ones and there's passwords now that I don't know because those are the ones he did and >> Right. >> I just kind of lived a little too freely and had a little online shopping. >> Yeah, I don't we all kind of have those things where >> [snorts] >> Yeah. As much as we fought, you know, or I had it, you know, issues or problems, he was usually supportive. I mean, you know, he said he loved me even a couple years ago when he thought I was doing bad things, you know, I denied I didn't do anything. >> [clears throat] >> He said he didn't >> were stepping out maybe or something like that? >> Part of the soccer stuff, but um, >> I didn't um >> Did he just like some of the parents spend a lot of time with them? >> Yeah, and the coach. >> The coach, yeah. >> Yeah, just cuz he's a new person and he was, you know, friendly relationship and nothing ever happened. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> But he kind of accused me and he said even if it did happen, he loved me and he'd forgive me, so. >> So, if you guys argued this morning, just verbal arguments? >> Yeah. >> And you never physical? >> No. >> Were they close with them or not? >> Yes, very close. Both, especially. He has his dad's passion for music. >> Mhm. >> Um [clears throat] kind of self-taught himself to play guitar. >> Right. >> Shared the same crazy taste in music. And so, yeah, he's probably closer than Kate. Kate's Kate's the second me. A lot of times I don't have to say what I'm thinking because it's already came out of her mouth. You know, she'd argue with her dad or be impatient with her dad, but >> Mhm. >> the next day they'd be, you know, we'd all be back to normal and Yeah, she makes dinner. >> That's right. Like I said, I mean our goal is, you know, we bring the extra keys down to kind of look at this scene and and help identify and figure out kind of what happened with the fire and kind of how things are going. I guess you need time to talk about this weekend, I guess. Um Friday. Said Owen went for a walk and his dad go for a walk then? >> Um yeah, more than the rest of us. >> Was that late after dinner? >> Um no, it was before dinner cuz nobody could decide where we were going to order from. So, finally Owen sent me a text to order Georgie Nick's. >> So, they went for their walk, they come back and have dinner. Do you guys eat like as a family then or is it kind of grab and go? >> Just kind of wherever. Um I usually watch TV in the living room. We all like different things and uh sometimes he sat in the bedroom and watch the ball game. Um I don't know really what he did that night. Um The last time I talked to him before I went to bed, um he was out in our sunroom strumming on one of his guitars. He liked to stay up late and listen. He had different shows he loved to watch, his music and concerts, and would tape them. You know, he would look find them on Netflix or Sling, some of the documentaries or you know, a live concert. He was all about his music. I hated his music. >> What kind of music is that? >> Um, I don't know, Rush, Jeff Beck, kind of >> Mhm. >> And a lot of times we used to have our dinner at the table, but you know, it was a Friday night and >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> Owen goes in his room, plays Xbox. Kay goes in her room and watches, you know, she's got a TV on the wall, but most of the time she watches whatever she wants on her phone. Tim and I didn't really agree on shows, either, so >> Yeah. >> it was normal that we were different rooms doing different things. >> Okay. Are the kids aware that you guys are kind of going apart? >> Um, yeah, cuz with the last one of the fights a couple weeks ago, they finally said, "Do you think you guys would be happier apart?" But, I mean, then the next 2 weeks have been okay, you know, so >> Do you think your last major argument was a couple weeks before? >> [snorts] >> Probably. >> Yeah. >> Probably were finances. I don't know, that kind of always stressed us out. >> Right. Is that what you kept saying that made you stressed? Cuz with work or was it mainly the finances? >> Um, probably a combination of them both. Um, my mom actually told me how stressed he was at work. >> And then what time do you think everybody went to bed? >> I actually I was probably 11:30, quarter to 12. >> So, you were at 11:30 and you said Tim was still awake? >> Yeah. >> And then both kids were home by then? >> Yeah, they they probably went to bed about 10:00 or Actually, I woke them up for the about 5:30. >> Did they know you were going to go to the game or did you have to drive them or how's that work? >> Um, no, they drive themselves to the bus and then the bus took them. >> Okay. So, do you remember Tim coming to bed at all? >> No. But, I had a sure a lot about >> Before Barbara even begins explaining that morning, investigators already have a problem with the fire itself. The fire marshal believes the candle was not the source. Because the bed burned most intensely on Tim's side, away from it. Now, as the interview begins, detectives need to understand Barbara's version and whether the details fit what they found. >> 2:30, 3:00. And he was in bed then. >> And at 5:30 when you got up, did Does he wake up with your alarm? >> No. >> Did you guys talk at all? >> Uh, no. >> Did he have plans of getting up and going with you or anything? >> Well, usually he sets his own alarm or he'll get up, um, if he's going to go and, you know, I I know I made plenty of noise. I, you know, I had a light on and I waited for the kids to get all their stuff done. I cooked them some eggs and we had some cinnamon rolls. So, I made them some breakfast cuz I knew it'd be a long day and, um, went and took a shower once they left. And when I got out of the shower, I said, "Are you going with me?" And he said he didn't feel good and he rolled over and went back to sleep. >> What time do you think that was? >> Probably 6:30, quarter to 7:00. >> Was that kind of a shock that he didn't go or is it >> No, like I said, he wasn't one that would want to go to go all the time. So, we always kind of felt like if we if they had at least one parent there, we never, um, you know, even if they did travel basketball and different things, we always felt like they got hurt, one of us should be there. I don't know if it was having the windows open, but all of a sudden just the dog smell was just I don't know, it was gaggy. >> Okay. >> Um, so that's why I had lit the candle. >> Okay. Do you remember Tell Tell me about that, I guess, then. >> I had it in the bathroom with me. You know, he just said he was nauseated and you know, smells really bother me. So, >> Mhm. >> when I left, I set it on his nightstand to kind of get rid of that cuz she'd been sleeping there um on the pile of dirty clothes beside his bed. >> So, what time do you think you left? >> We left at 7:00, 7:00. Our goal was to be out before 7:00 cuz I knew it was about 2 hours. >> Mhm. >> I knew I had to stop to get some gas. I never make it all the way. >> Did you talk to anybody on the phone? Did you meet up with any other moms, anything like that? >> But I went and got some cash from Farmers Bank and >> Just to the ATM then? >> Yeah. >> All right. Were you able to get cash? >> Yeah. >> So, when you were heading out of town, I guess when you left, did you see any smoke or putting the candle in his room and kind of checking on him and him saying he was nauseated. That's like the last thing you did before you left, right? >> Yeah. >> And then you went out. Um then you went and got cash. So, tell me about your drive then. Did you catch up with the bus? Did you see anybody? >> No. >> How far did you get? You said you didn't notice any phone calls. >> Um well, I was north of Corinth and I finally got a ding. >> Was that somebody telling you there was an issue at your house or >> Uh my first one was Kate. She had screenshotted um a Facebook thing from Shelby that her house was on fire. >> Okay. What did you do then next then after you saw that? >> Well, I pulled over um and tried to make some phone calls. I think I tried to talk to her and our phone got cut off. Kind of a blur. Um cuz I didn't know, should I go get my kids? Cuz they were freaking out, you know. >> Mhm. >> I didn't know what to do. You know, my first instinct is to protect my kids. >> What were you told on the phone then? >> That my house was on fire and that they had asked you know, where we were at cuz she didn't know. And I remember just squealing out Tim was in the house. >> You ever try to call him? >> No. >> You know if anybody did? >> Um I know when my I didn't answer for my mom, she did. Cuz if she can't get a hold of me, she'll call Tim. And he didn't answer, so she was freaking out. Um I don't know if anybody else did or not. >> And then, what did you do next? >> Well, I finally figured out that I should turn around, and so um I flew back. I guess I just assumed Tim was >> [snorts] >> mobile and moved. >> Mhm. And then, I guess you got back. What did you see? You got home >> Um I think I either got a text or a call from Owen, and then the neighbor kid had told him that he knew somebody was in the ambulance. So, maybe that's when I tried to call Beth Ann again. And she told me I just needed to come to the house. She wouldn't tell me anything. And so, when I pulled up, I parked and um I could tell by the look on Wayne Goodwin's face. >> Mhm. >> For [clears throat] sure. >> And that's a lot to take in. You know, and and like I said, our job is to kind of put things together and try to figure out what happened. And and I'm like I said, I think you said when you're out there, you watch a lot of CSI shows. Um what do you think maybe happened? >> I don't know. Mhm. I know that Mike was nice enough to fulfill my wish, or not wish, my request to see him. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> And I hoped to God >> The conversation is moving beyond the fire and into the life Barbara and Tim were living before it. Their relationship had problems, and the family was dealing with pressure at home. That context matters, but it does not establish what happened that morning. The more immediate question is how Barbara describes their final night together and the routine that followed. >> Oh my god. He wasn't alive when that happened to him. >> Mhm. >> I don't I don't know what happened. I You know. I mean, we're going to cremate him. That's not what I would pick in scenario. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> That whole fire thing just freaks me out. I mean, I can still smell the smoke now or Mom's neighbors were having a bonfire Saturday night and that pushed, you know, pushed me over the edge to think of that. >> Mhm. >> He was my husband. I can't say we were madly in love, but I loved him. I wouldn't wish that upon anybody. You know, not knowing. Just It's crazy. >> Mhm. And that's kind of one of the things we need to determine, but I always talk with people too cuz I wasn't there. I mean, I don't know somehow this house was started on fire. We need to figure out how that happened and you know, we're doing the autopsy and all that. Good understanding of what their findings are and we understand that process, right? >> Yeah. >> We got our lab team down here and the fire marshal down here. They do a pretty thorough investigation. >> from that, [clears throat] did it Can you figure anything out? >> You know, that they're still working up there. So, I mean, we'll step out and try to get that answer for you today and uh but my goal here is, you know, I want to talk with you and make sure that there's nothing that uh we need to discuss because, you know, the science is there. You know, we're pretty good at determining things that are going to happen. If it was the candle, they're going to be able to tell me if it was or was not. Um you know, if it's not the candle, we're going to have to figure out what else was there that might have started the fire. Um you know, our indication tends to help the guy. Um I don't think he's going to you know, pass of some kind of natural causes and then somehow the house started fire. That doesn't make sense, right? Um, so, you know, we need to look at all those aspects, but you know, at the same time we want to give individuals the opportunity if they maybe saw or heard something to help us with the investigation, too, because you know, we're going to put things together and it's going to come out and we want to make sure that we have full understanding. You know, I don't want to jump to conclusions. >> We're We're We're just trying to figure out what happened. I mean, what I guess we're going to What makes you think that? >> I don't know. I've never been through this process before. I I I I don't know. I know you have to look at everybody, you know, if you That's what you're thinking. I I I don't I don't know. >> Yeah. And Barbara, I've been doing this kind of like a a long time, you know, and um, we'll get at what we're doing. That's why we come down here and I think most families appreciate that, right? Cuz they want to know. >> I just >> Um, but I'm also a realist, you know, so I look at things and I prepare myself for um, if things come back different. Like you said, another explanation that I'm missing, you know. Um, sometimes the facts come together in a in a case and they point in one direction and you know, black and white it might look like this, but there might be more to the story and that's my job is to talk with people, you >> Right. >> know, to kind of get a better understanding cuz I'm going to hear that maybe your relationship wasn't that well with him. You people are going to say that, won't you agree? >> Yeah. I mean, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's certainly >> But we didn't bind public. We just Tim I'm more social for people that I like, but Tim was just you know, if you want to talk to him over the fence, he'd talk to you. >> Finances were a little tough. >> Yeah. >> You know, they definitely were. Um, look like maybe you're behind a little bit on your house. >> Well, they we refinanced. We had been like 6 months behind. >> Mhm. >> So, [clears throat] we they we did a long program. So, we had gotten that back on track. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> And that was just >> Sorry. >> bad spending and >> Mhm. You know, and sometimes I guess how is that going to work out with your insurance up to date? You know, um >> That was part of the mortgage or the escrow and all that stuff. >> You guys have life insurance? >> Yes, and I just had um upped his policy. >> Okay. >> Mine, I'm kind of weird with my diabetes. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> I think there's a 100,000 on me plus I have 2 years of my salary. >> Mhm. >> And I think at Alliant his was just a year or year and a half. And so, with their increments, we looked at going up more, but they'll only allow you to go up 25,000. >> Mhm. >> Um So, I had upped him through mine. >> Mhm. >> And he got approved. >> Okay. >> And that was just something that we had talked about cuz his brother died younger. And I had really thought I had more on Tim before, but you know, I'm had missed this process, but >> Right. >> we wanted to make sure our house, you know, um things were taken care of. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> I have extra on the kids. >> Mhm. >> I think I have 25,000 piece on the kids just to cover if something would happen. >> Mhm. What were you able to get on Mark then? Or on Tim, excuse me. >> Um they okayed him for the 200,000. >> Well, I appreciate knowing that cuz that's the stuff we're going to find out. Um you know, I guess it kind of when the DCA comes in if you're not familiar with us, we work investigations and then we can only do them one way. So, no matter what, if somebody dies, we don't have one protocol for doing a case and that's to the full extent. So, we can't come in here and just spend a day and go. We have to spend it and do the all our checks on our boxes, right? So, you know, with that we need to look at his cell records and that kind of stuff and that'll give us a good idea of you know, where you're at, when things go, and you know, where you're at anyway. You got so many phone calls and that kind of stuff. So, that's why I'm kind of asking you those questions. >> Barbara's account now turns to the morning of the fire, where she says she left the candle when she left home and what happened after she learned the house was burning. One detail stands out in the interview, she did not call Tim after being notified. That answer raises a question for investigators, but they still need to establish the timeline. >> I'm trying to ask you those questions of where you were at and where you were at. Um, you know, we can look at the bank and we can see if you were there. That'll help us with the timeline of when you left. Um Is there any concerns you have about anything we might find that you want to get out now because um, anything that if we any nasty text messages you guys send each other, anything like that? >> Actually, our conversations were better with text mess you know, we we weren't we could be in a room and not talk. >> Mhm. >> But you know, what do you want for supper? >> Mhm. >> Throw this in the trash or do this. That's how we communicated was through text messages that were no bad. >> Right. >> Text, you know, trying to work in Owen's room redoing it and every time I came out he was sitting watching the ball game. Could you vacuum? Could you do? >> Right. >> This and that. >> Yeah, you're trying to be super mom and he's kind of >> Yeah. >> Chill out. >> had a few words that day and that's what the kids said, do you think you'd be happier? >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> I was trying to get to a little boiling point and he would do it. >> My goal here is that it's a I prepare myself for what I think that maybe information is going to come out from the autopsy or from the fire investigation that's not going to maybe correlate with um, the information you're giving us. Um, and the reason I I I say that is I I I want to be able to talk about that a little bit because I can understand um, stressors at home and I talk with people and I talk about relationships that you try and try for years to make right and sometimes [snorts] they don't get right and and and know, matter what you do, there's there's no good out and then you have finances on top of that. There's a lot of stress going on. Um wouldn't be the first person I talked to that that is one of those tipping points for a relationship, cuz I don't think that candle started the fire. >> Okay. >> Um I don't think that that happened. I think that the you're at the neighbor's kind of were outside. Um I think that you know, we want to kind of talk about maybe the timing and then the fire started. You know, and then I'm worried what the doctors are going to find at the autopsy. I think maybe you maybe talk with some of the first responders about maybe not needing an autopsy done. >> No, cuz that whole Not because I don't know what want to know what happened, because I mean, Mike and I had that conversation. It was to Mike. >> Mhm. >> I don't like cutting and pulling everything out, even in that shape. Just >> Mhm. And [clears throat] I And I just got to look at the totality of all that information and and try to figure out what's going on and and if there's other explanations for it. Um cuz what I think is that maybe you're not being completely truthful about any of the interactions in the morning. Um I think just talking here a little bit, we've had a little bit of inconsistencies on our conversation. So, I mean, that's my job as I'm a fact finder. My concern is is that there's going to be facts that come up that are suspect of something else happening. Um and maybe I might jump to the wrong conclusion. You know, if there's something more going on with the relationship or there's an argument that happened. You know, I need to to know that because >> No, I mean >> I can't I wasn't >> The interview takes a different turn when the detectives begin asking about money. Barbara acknowledges increasing Tim's life insurance, and the conversation includes a policy worth $200,000. That is relevant alongside the financial strain they were discussing, but a policy alone proves no crime. Investigators are looking at the wider picture, and the reason these details matter to them. >> I wasn't there, you know, so I can't interject and maybe speculate on what I think happened. I can only go with the facts lead us in, if it's not you know, I mean you indicate that you let a candle and if it if the fire guys end up saying it's, you know, fire was started by a candle and can't find any other reason for it, I need to figure out what what would happen and why would why would the why would a fire start in this room? >> I I don't know. I don't >> And then if the autopsy comes back and there's concerns that the medical examiner has, you know, I got to be prepared to deal with that. You understand how that works, zero toxicology and that kind of stuff. You know, make sure that there's not any other system failures or something like that in his body. So, I don't think that's going to be the case. I don't think this was a heart attack or or a stroke or anything like that. I just don't think that's going to be the fact. Relationships are tough and I think that things snowball and things get out of control and sometimes we as people are trying to look at doing right things for our kids and when money starts piling up and we start looking at a house, um I think that that's definitely a reason why things like this happen. You know, maybe Tim's not contributing in a certain way. Maybe there's some way that maybe you're grasping onto a hope that there's a way to get out of this mess. Um Cuz I think Barb, I think that's what this case is going to show us. I think we're going to find some things at the autopsy that's going to say he didn't die in the fire. I think there's going to be the fire guys are going to tell us that the fire didn't start by the candle. And it's going to lead Mike and I to sit here and say, "Okay, maybe this was planned something that Barb thought about for a long time or maybe it was one of those things where I just can't take life anymore and it's the only thing I thought I could do to keep my family and keep Owen and and Kate with me." Um I get that. I understand that. But I think that that's what we're going to find out, Barb. And I guess I I'd rather hear that from you so I can at least have a little emotion with that instead of the black and white because I think it's [snorts] I don't think I think maybe something happened during the night early in the morning that you didn't know what to do now. I I think that things just steamrolled and and maybe looking back at you could change things we would. I think you're a good person. I think that you would change things. But the information that you're giving us is not going to not going to correlate with what the evidence shows, Barb. You know, or we're probably not going to have you on camera at the bank. We're not going to have you on cell towers where you're at. The neighbors neighbors knew when you left the house and when the fire started. Now is the opportunity to help us understand what you >> bank. I have the money in my purse. >> But it's not going to change how the fire started or how he died. You know, I think that we all wish that maybe if it was just an accidental fire, right? That that would make it things easier. That, you know, maybe that if the house burned down and and people responded to it, they'd accept that. Um in this case they didn't. They called us in and investigated and I have a job to do. >> All right. I understand that. >> And I'm going to go through the evidence. I'm going to have to present it. I'm going to discuss it. I'm going to say this is not possible. I don't think Barb's at this other end of the spectrum where she just did this because she wants to be with the soccer coach. >> That's like >> That's way out of I know. I know. But I These are the things that come out of people talking to you about it. >> Right. People are going to say, "Oh, she just wanted the money. It was the life insurance thing." You know, I'm not going to You wanted him gone because he didn't treat her well. He didn't do anything. He was lazy. >> No. I wanted one of my kids to have their father. I >> What do you think's going to happen when the the medical examiner calls me up? Because I don't I don't even need to wait for his call today to know that he's going to tell me there's some concerns here with his body. >> I don't know. >> W- What >> He was in bed when I went to sleep when I left. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> And I don't think that that's going to be possible that when you left that Tim was alive. >> He was. He was snoring. >> And I think that the medical examiners might differ to that. But I'm telling you right now that I don't Nobody in this room believes that that's the true story. I think we're leaving some things out cuz I see some pretty bad stuff, right? And I can go to bed and think that the worst that Barbara just wanted the money because she wanted her her kids are almost out of school and she had nothing to do with them. She just wanted the money to live her life that she didn't get, right? Those are the things that come out. When I look at you, I see a mom that's worked her butt off all her years trying to put a good house up for her kids. I see the bills coming up. I see Tim saying that he wants a divorce and he's going to >> Now the detective stops gathering background and starts laying out what he believes the evidence may show. He questions whether Tim died in the fire and whether the candle explains how it started. At this stage, those are investigative concerns, not conclusions Barbara has accepted. The pressure is building because her account will have to be compared with the physical evidence. >> He wants a divorce and he's going to leave you. Maybe the kids wanting to go with him and you're losing everything that you've worked so hard for. And your life come crumbling down. And I think you're looking for an out. And I think that's what it was, Barbara. I think it was an out and I think that I think we'll find out what happened to Tim medically. And I think we'll find out that the fire was set afterwards to cover that up. Tim might have been quiet towards you, but he wasn't quiet to other people about his relationship problems. He talked about the issues you guys had going on. And I put it with the facts that I see at the scene and the facts I see at the autopsy. And I have to add all that up and see what it looks like. It's heavily weighted that you're at fault here. I don't know that. I just don't want to get the wrong assumption. I want to get the true story out there that this wasn't because you were angry and this wasn't because you were upset. I want to hear that this was done for the reason that you think they were. And I think I know. I think it's for your children. I think you really thought this was the best thing to be able to get them money that you need to survive, keep the house, keep the kids. That you guys were going to get separated anyhow, Barbara. You know that was coming. >> We had lived in this kind of relationship probably for the last 5 years. >> Mhm. >> Just existing. >> Mhm. And that's not a good place. >> No, it's not. >> Did you want a divorce and couldn't afford to get divorced? Is that a problem? That was a conversation I'm sure you had. >> Right. And I had had that conversation with my two close friends. You know, financially we couldn't separate. Um financially you know, what would we do with the house? I could afford bills. But I couldn't afford to the kids to have their home, yeah. >> Mhm. >> But I mean, we just existed that way and that's the way we were. >> Mhm. And without Tim's money coming in, you wouldn't be able [clears throat] to exist by yourself, right? >> Right. >> Mhm. >> But like I said, every time that we had gotten to that point you know, I'm like, "Why don't you just leave?" He wouldn't leave. He wouldn't leave his kids. >> Mhm. And in fact, he wanted to keep his kids. >> Right. >> Yeah. And maybe he was even trying to get Owen on his side. So, I apologize. >> that day that when he said, "Mom, why don't you two just would you be happier separated?" I said, "Owen, honestly, I have stayed this long cuz I wasn't sure you would go with me." >> Mhm. >> Because he was closer to his dad, because his dad was the [snorts] easy-going one and I'm the one who yelled to clean your room, to do the >> But you're also the one that goes to all the tournaments and you get his laundry done and you get all that done. >> Well, I was Tim did laundry laundry most days. >> Mhm. And I get that. So, at the same time you're dealing with that struggle of I've given so much over the years for you. And now Dad, just because you want to be buddies, all of a sudden against you, trying to separate the family. I can understand that. I can understand when things get out of control. I just don't Help me understand how it got to this point. >> I honest it didn't get to this point. >> is going to show that. We're going to track all that back and it's going to prove that something happened. >> The only thing you're going to prove is I didn't go through court and I cut through Russell. >> Mhm. Why wouldn't you tell me that? >> I told him that Saturday. But I I don't know. >> Help me understand that. >> through there so I could drive faster cuz I was running behind. I don't exactly know what time I left town. But I stopped and got $200 out of the Farmers Bank. >> And you didn't do anything. You started the fire. >> No, I didn't. I set the candle there. >> And the candle didn't start the fire. >> Then I don't know. >> Barb, look at it from our standpoint. >> I know that. >> But the fire starts moments after you're gone. Your neighbors are over there trying to pound on the window. Tim's not responsive. Your dog still lives, but Tim doesn't. >> Yeah, I don't know why the dog lived. I don't know why this happened. >> And I think I mean inside I think you do. I want to be able to put your story out there, Barb. I want people to understand what happened. Cuz the truth's going to come out and it's going to be my evidence only. And that's where I need I want more. I want us to leave here knowing the full truth, Barb. I don't have to ask these hard questions at home and I don't want to have to sit in there and figure out what's going on that night and ask them all the questions. I want to talk to you. >> That night was a peaceful night. We just I baked my cookies and did all that [ __ ] and he did >> Nothing. >> No, I'm not saying he didn't do nothing. That night >> The detective brings the focus back to the sequence of events. Barbara leaving, the neighbors responding, and Tim being found unresponsive while the dog survived. Barbara says she does not know why it happened and firmly denies starting the fire. The disagreement is now clear. But, the detective is not finished. He believes the timeline and the autopsy may challenge her explanation. >> That night he went for a walk. Um I don't know if he took the trash out or not. Was there >> a conversation between Owen and and Tim that >> I don't know. They went for a walk. No, I don't know. I yelled at the kids to get their stuff ready. >> Mhm. >> So, cuz I know that half the time I can't find and then you have to dig through stuff. And at 6:00, when he had to be somewhere at 6:30, I didn't want that to happen. >> Mhm. >> I'm not going to sit here and say I killed my husband. Just because I might be off 5 or 10 minutes or whatever. I did not. >> And I I And the investigation can show otherwise. Barbara, I'm confident in that. I wouldn't I wouldn't sit here and tell you that if I wasn't fully confident in that. I think the doctors We were at the autopsy. We know he has strong concerns on what happened. I have some strong concerns about the stories that you've given cuz they changed. I think when it comes out that the fire started and then you leave and you drive away, maybe you weren't You know, why those neighbors have to be outside? Cuz you didn't leave at 6:50. You left at 7:15. Okay, and I mean that'll tell us too when you're down at the bank. The ATM's going to have a camera which shows what time you got your money out. Cell phone records are going to show where you're at when you get the phone calls. So, I think everybody's calling you and I think you're scared to answer. >> No, I wasn't. My phone was not where I was I I got texts or voicemails today from Saturday because of the night I did some kind of update. >> Mhm. >> Because I'm like, how did I miss seven voicemails? And they're from like Saturday. They weren't there before. >> I'm not going to argue with you on that because the cell phone companies will tell me if they're connected or not. I don't need you to tell me if they they made a connect call or not. >> I called Verizon last night trying to get access to Tim's phone because he had all these pictures of the kids and if the phone was broke, >> Mhm. >> I wanted [clears throat] that. Only reason because she told me I'd have a court order and everything else. So when they tell you that, that was the reasoning. The kids had been trying to call his voicemail to record it and it goes to an automated system. I asked him how to get that back. >> And I ain't I'm sure you are. I'm sure that you're trying to deal with things with Owen and Kate and and getting them squared away and but we can't we can't get past what happened Saturday morning, Barb. I mean, it's not going to go away no matter how much we try to spin a story or say things happened this way. You know, maybe if the house went up in flames and collapsed on itself, maybe we wouldn't have known things. You know, he was not that badly burned. The doctor's able to do a proper examination on him and come to conclusions. You know, you get called by your daughter that their house is on fire and you don't even call Tim to see if he's okay and you don't call him because you know he's already dead. >> No, I did. I was trying to get a hold of him. No. That's exactly what somebody does when somebody calls and says, "My house is on fire and I left and I know my husband's in there." And I also knew the fire trucks and everything else was there. Because that was something that Kate had said, "Mom, there's a fire at the house and they're there." >> Mhm. And that leaves Mike and I to think, "Okay, they've had problems with their marriage since 2010. Tim's expressed concerns to family members that the divorce was imminent and that they weren't getting along very well and and maybe Barb did plan this for months or weeks. Maybe it was that cold and calculated. Cuz I think that's what the evidence is going to show us, Barb. You know, I when I talk to people in the rooms, I I guarantee we cannot change what things happened by, but we can go back in time. I like to hear people that say I wish you wouldn't have went that far. You know, at least give me the information that they feel bad about it. That's I don't think I'm sitting across from a person that has any of those concerns. >> By this point, the detective is no longer asking only what happened. He is pressing Barbara to explain why he believes Tim did not die naturally. She repeatedly says she does not know what to tell him while he maintains that the investigation has moved beyond that question. The interview ends with practical consequence. Detectives tell her they need her phone and seek a warrant for the vehicle. >> And that concerns me. I think in your mind you were truly trying to do what you thought was best. But help us understand that. >> I don't know what there is to understand. Are you arresting me today? >> No. I'm here to listen to you. >> I don't know what you want me to tell you. >> I'm here to do today. I'm here to tell you that I have talked to people like you before that have been in situations like this. But when they're pushed up against the wall and things didn't work out like they had planned. I try to talk with them to figure out why. I know how it happened. I know when it happened. I'm pretty sure that I exactly know exactly where and what time it happened. That's going to come out. I'm going to have all those facts, but the one piece I'm going to miss is the why part. And that's what everybody's going to want to know when they why did this happen? I want to be here to be able to write that into the story for you, Barb. I don't want to just use the who, what, when, and where. I want to know why things happened. That's important to me. It's not necessary. We could go forward with our case with the evidence we have and it looks pretty damning. I think things add up and as human beings we can only take so much. And then we have to go into what can I do to keep some sense of normalcy? How can I keep my house? How can I keep my kids? And then we have choices to make. Help me understand how we got to where we did. I mean you shake your head, but you know I'm right. What was the breaking point for you? >> I don't have anything to say. I don't I don't I didn't have a breaking point. >> Do you understand what happened? >> I do. >> Do you understand what health looks like and what's going to happen? You understand. You you watch the TV shows. You're in the medical field. You know they're going to be able to do toxicology and figure out what happened and that's going to come back on you. The fire didn't destroy his body. That's going to come back to you and and then it's just going to be evidence. >> I don't understand. So >> I I >> Well, then take me through it. What led up to that decision? Because we know >> There was no decision. >> He didn't die on his own, Barbara. Something happened that morning that for you to decide that today is the day. I don't know if it was the timing of the school and not wanting to go with you or if it was just the opportunity. >> I don't know. >> The evidence told a different story. Tim had no smoke in his lungs and testing revealed elevated levels of propofol. Investigators connected those findings with the timeline and the case ended with Barbara Pazza being found guilty of murder and arson. >> I may be unhappy and depressed with life, but I know. >> Barbara, we're past that, but no. Mike and I are telling you that we're way past on whether this happened by you, Barbara, or not. We know that this happened. >> Okay, so then you've made up your minds completely. >> If you leave, it's not going to change things, though, Barbara. >> It'll just prolong it to another day. >> What's going to happen? >> I don't know. >> I supposed to What am I supposed to tell Owen? >> what to tell you. I just >> What am I supposed to tell her when she asks me? >> I don't know. >> What am I supposed to tell her sisters? >> There's no I don't know. >> What happens when it comes back that maybe it's quick? >> I I don't know. Obviously, you have any answers and I don't. >> Let's go. I think you just locked your keys in. Your phone. Um at this point I'm going to seize your cell phone and you know, hold on to your vehicle for right now. Um pending a warrant. Your phone. So, I'll need your cell phone. >> So, my phone right now? >> What's that? I've seized them right now. Warrant [snorts] will be signed later. >> So, how am I supposed to >> I'm going to give you I'm not keeping your vehicle. But then right now, I need to get I got to get the warrant signed. >> So, how am I supposed to get home right now? >> You call somebody. You'll be right home. >> What do you see? Look closely at Barbara's story. Do you think the fire was really an accident or does the evidence tell a different story? Share your thoughts in the comments. And for more interrogation breakdowns, hidden details, and true crime analysis, like the video and subscribe to Verdict Interrogation.