So, I went in because it seems like everyone wants to just pretend he's some victim. >> Unfortunately, with the way the law is written and everything, they look at his age, and that's all. They don't look at anything but his age and and being the age difference between the two of you and your position and everything, and that's kind of it's kind of black and white. >> Because children can't manipulate adults? Is that what you're saying? >> So, what led up to today, um where things started getting out of control? Where did you get that gun from? >> I bought it. >> When when did you buy it? Um and you fired it you fired the gun off. >> [snorts] >> Uh why did you fire the gun off? >> I didn't know the safety was on or not. Nobody's going to care about me. No one's going to care about my trauma. >> No, all this information is going straight to the prosecuting attorney. >> put me in a cage again? >> By September 2023, a 13-year-old boy in Columbus, Ohio had been assigned a counselor. Her name was Peyton Shires. She was 23 years old, newly qualified and licensed by the state of Ohio as a social worker, she worked for the National Youth Advocate Program, a non-profit agency that placed counselors with children referred for support. She was carrying at least 12 children on her caseload. He was the one she would later call her biggest problem child. >> And like because he was my biggest problem child. >> He was withdrawn. He was suspended over and over. It took a long time before he would talk to her. So, she worked at it. She took him to the Ohio State Fair. She took him to a trampoline park. In her own words, >> he would see me as something that was positive and not just negative like he just has to talk about his problems and >> She believed it worked. According to the lawsuit his mother later filed on the 22nd of September, she went to Shire's supervisor and asked for her to be taken off her son's case. 5 days later, she stopped asking the agency and went to the police. On the 6th of October, Payton Shire's 24th birthday, to the Columbus SWAT, arrested her. She was charged with unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, a felony of the third degree. She posted bond and she was released. 20 days later, on the 26th of October, she bought a gun from a private seller at shooting range in New Albany. That evening, she drove to the boy's house, sat down on the family's front porch and put the gun to her head. Columbus SWAT surrounded the house. The standoff ran about 3 hours. At some point, Payton Shire's fired a shot. This is the interview detectives recorded with her that night. >> Payton. Let me pull that helmet her down so you can see it a little bit better. No, you want to keep it there? Okay. Um I'm Josh. Uh I was in here briefly last time and then this is uh Detective Specht. Um she's working on me or with me on this. Um So, I'm going to start out real quick cuz we've kind of done this before and I know things have kind of really spiraled out of control, I feel. And I want to try to slow things down a little bit. Um I'm going to start out just by letting you know that we know you're not a bad person, okay? And there are multiple sides to everything that happens. We are just trying to put the puzzle together or the whole the everything together. Just getting puzzle pieces, we're putting things together, trying to understand exactly what happened, why things happened the way that they did. And we don't have every piece yet, but that's what we're trying to get so we can fully understand your perspective, your point of view, um as well as everything else that we that we know happened. Um so, that's what we want to do. We we just want to talk to you. We're not We're just trying to be fair to you so you get a an an opportunity to tell us your side of things as what happened so we can understand. Um now like we did last time I do before we start talking um to hear what you have to say I do have to read you your rights. Um I don't have all the paperwork with me that I did last time um so I'm going to start from the beginning again. Um Peyton is S H I R E S Shires, right? Do you need to If Peyton do you need a drink or something? I'm sorry. Peyton we're just WE'RE JUST TRYING >> [laughter] >> THAT'S PEYTON THAT WE DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR STORY. WE DON'T understand what has happened to you and that's what we're here for. We just want to understand and have you tell us. Okay so that we can help so you can help us understand what's happened. I don't know what happened in your history. I don't know your past. Okay. That's what WE'RE HERE FOR. WE DON'T WANT YOU TO DIE PEYTON. I don't want you to get hurt. No I don't I don't necessarily want that for you to get hurt. All I want to [laughter] do is understand why it happened to happen, okay? Hey Peyton sit up. You want some water? >> [applause] >> Are you sure? If your stomach's hurting it might help you. Sit up. Just >> [laughter] >> here. Here move your hands. Here drink it. Do you want some of it? If your stomach's hurting it might >> [laughter] >> We know everybody's side of the story except yours. That's the only That's what we're trying to figure out. Okay, well that So, we're not even talking about that right now. Okay? >> are. >> What I am concerned about is what happened today. That's what we're going to talk about. We're going to What I would like to do is start by talking about that. All right, but we can talk about we can talk about your past. We can talk about your history. I don't know anything about you. >> [laughter] >> Okay? And [snorts] I want to give you the opportunity >> [laughter] >> to tell us so that we can understand where you're coming from, what you've been through. All right? I do believe that you what that most of what you were doing you were Thank you. >> I need to. You want more? >> No. [snorts] >> [laughter] >> I don't believe that you were trying to hurt anybody, okay? >> [laughter] >> What happens to people that hurt me? NOTHING. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS TO THEM. >> WELL, WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT I want I want you to be able I want you to try to calm down a little bit. I know that that's hard. I know that you just >> A lot's happened tonight. >> [laughter] >> But I don't want you to say We're not uncaring people. >> loved me. You just lied. I should have just killed myself. >> No. We don't >> I should have just pulled the trigger. >> [laughter] >> Please, you're not here to protect anybody. >> [clears throat] >> Didn't you go to the the the facility you went to not help you at all? >> I I just lay IN A BED ALL THE TIME and think about what happened. >> They didn't do anything else for you? They didn't talk to you about everything? >> They did. >> [laughter] >> It helped when I was there a little bit. I DIDN'T WANT TO DIE as much. >> And when did you get out? >> [laughter] >> On Tuesday. >> And then as soon [snorts] as you left, you started feeling bad again? >> I felt bad a couple days before I left, but >> [snorts] >> I didn't know what I was going to do about it. >> Why didn't you tell them? >> [laughter] >> Because I just wanted to >> Because you wanted to leave? >> Be free. And I just thought if I if I could leave >> Peyton, sounds like that you have been through a lot of [ __ ] in your life and you have a lot of unresolved issues, a lot of things that happened to you. >> [laughter and gasps] >> We are willing to talk to you about some of those things so that we can try to understand where you're coming from. I don't know who you are. I don't know where you came from. I don't know what you experienced. I don't know the bad things that happened to you. But we do have an opportunity to talk about that and you can explain some of these things and then we can help us understand. >> What happened in the cell? >> But what I want to do before we get too much into that, I do have to read this form, okay? We have to go through that real quick. >> Why am I not going to a hospital? WHY AM I NOT GETTING the help that I need? >> Well, we want you to get the help that you need and that's going to be something that we're going to talk to the prosecutor about. >> I'm not >> [laughter] >> I CAN'T GO BACK, IS IT? YOU JUST RELIVE EVERYTHING [screaming] THAT HE DID TO ME. >> [laughter] [laughter] >> CAN WE READ THIS FORM TO YOU REAL QUICK? >> [snorts] >> SO if you want to talk about anything, then you can have that opportunity. We do want to hear what he did to you. I want to hear about that. I don't know that. No one's told me. I've been We've been >> Even if he didn't >> [laughter] >> Even if he did rape me. It doesn't matter my side of the story because >> matter. >> THE LAW DOESN'T SAY BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS no matter WHAT A KID DOES TO YOU, >> [laughter] >> THE ADULT JUST GETS CHARGED FOR IT ANYWAYS. IT DOESN'T MATTER. >> THE LAW DOESN'T SAY THAT. years old. Peyton, are you going to be able to listen to me while I read this real quick? Okay. >> [snorts] >> I want I I want to talk about this stuff. I want to understand you. I want to understand [snorts] what you've been through. I want to understand what you're going through. But, I have to read this to you before we get too much further into it. All right? All right. [snorts] So, you do speak English okay, right? I remember that from last time. You said yes. >> [laughter] >> And you completed You have your college degree, is that right? Okay. >> [laughter] >> Um >> [snorts] >> Did you wear out glasses or contacts, did you say? >> No. >> No, okay. And have you had any alcohol in the last 12 24 hours at all? >> No. >> How How about any drugs, either prescription medication? What did you have? Just prescription medication or [snorts] street drugs? >> Okay. Um anything that's going to affect your understanding what's going on today? >> No. >> Okay. Just your You took your prescription medicine as prescribed? >> Yes. [snorts] >> Okay. All right. All right. Um so, listen up, Peyton. If you have any questions about this, please stop me so I can explain it to you, okay? I want It's important to me that you understand this. Um before I ask you any questions, you must understand your rights. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before I ask you questions. You also have the right to have a lawyer with you during questioning. >> [snorts] >> If you're unable to pay for a lawyer, a lawyer will be appointed for you prior to any questioning. If you wish to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering at any time. You also have the right to stop answering any time until you talk to a lawyer. Do you understand all that? >> Yes. Okay. So, let's start out, Payton. Um Well, we can start out wherever you want to start out. We can start out by talking about what happened to you in your past um when you were in high school, when you were uh a um Or we can Or we can go into today, what happened today. >> [snorts] >> Um how long have you been outside of the um the You went to Where was it? Was Was it in Springfield that you went to or was it Cambridge? >> Yeah. >> She in Cambridge, and it was called the Hickory something, Hickory Treatment Facility. >> Yeah. >> When did you get out of there? >> Tuesday. >> On Tuesday? All right. And did you go to live with uh Did you go to your your mom and dad's place? >> My grandma. >> Your grandma? Where's she live? >> In Laurel. >> Laurel? That's like way down south, isn't it? >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Okay. And have this that where you you were up until today, or have you been kind of going around Okay. >> Kind [snorts] of. >> [sighs] >> Has your family been supportive about everything? Yeah. What about Nick? >> I think he's hurt. >> Yeah. Have you got to see Parker? >> Yes. >> That's good. Does that make you feel better? >> Kind of. >> Yeah. So, what led up to today um where things started getting out of control? Where did you get that gun from? >> I bought [laughter] it. >> Where did you buy it from? >> [snorts] >> Arm something. I don't know. Online. >> Online? Okay. When When did you buy it? >> Today. >> Today? You bought it online today and you got it today? >> [snorts] >> I met someone. >> Oh, I see. >> It was a private seller. >> Oh, okay. >> Where'd you meet him at? >> [snorts] >> In New Albany at a gun range. >> Do you know about what time that was? >> [sighs] >> Um I met him at 1:00. >> Okay. The car you're driving, the Kia, whose car is that? >> It's um my son's dad's car. >> Okay. All right, so um what made you want to buy that gun today? >> To kill myself. >> Where were you going to kill yourself at? >> I don't know. >> [snorts] >> I don't know. >> How did you find this guy that was selling it? Was it like Facebook Marketplace or something or >> No, it was a gun site, a website. >> Oh, I see. >> For private [snorts] sellers. >> So, after you got the gun, did you go back to your grandma's or did you just stay in the area? >> Where was that? >> [snorts] [laughter] >> It was at my in-laws. >> [sighs and gasps] >> Okay. [clears throat] How did you get up to >> How did you get up to um >> I Ubered everywhere. >> Oh, okay. So, you Ubered there, you got the gun, and then you went to um your in-laws' place. You got your car. >> Yes. >> And then what happened? >> Then I parked it in downtown. >> Okay. >> The library in the garage, I wrote my suicide notes. >> Are they in your car right now? >> On my phone. I wrote them at my in-laws' [snorts] house and then I finished it in the garage. >> So, it's the downtown public library that you were at? >> [snorts] >> Yeah. >> What time was that that you parked there? >> I don't remember. Like >> [sighs] >> It was probably 4:00. I don't know. >> And then what you do? You got out and started walking? >> [snorts] >> Yeah. I got an Uber. >> Oh, you got an Uber? Where did that drop you off at? >> It dropped me off over near the house at the Y M C A in the parking lot where I lived. I walked. I walked [snorts] to Everyone just leaves anyways. Everybody just abandons me. So, I don't give a [ __ ] I don't trust anybody. >> Yeah. >> And I wanted him to trust me. But I didn't want it I didn't want anything sexual to happen. I didn't see him like that. >> Mhm. You didn't feel any attraction towards him at all? >> Not sexually, no. I just like loved him. Like I just wanted to help him like in that way. And then [laughter] after that happened, I was just confused. >> [snorts] >> He got out of the car AND THEN I GOT BACK in the front seat and I didn't say anything. >> [snorts] >> Did you guys end up having sex that night, too? >> No. He was just mad, though. He wouldn't say anything, either, and I was just like >> [gasps and snorts] >> "What's wrong? Why are Are mad? Why are you mad?" And I said, it's cuz you I want to have sex with you. And he shook his [snorts] head yes. >> So, did he just get back into the front seat and you guys left? Or did he go back into the party [snorts] or whatever? >> I took him back over there. >> And did you wait for him to leave or did you take him home afterwards? >> I took [snorts] him home after. >> And so like the whole ride home, was he he was just being quiet and stuff or what? >> [snorts] >> It was quiet, but I was freaking out. >> Yeah. And he never said anything else about it when you guys were driving? >> about it. If I tried to talk about it, he said we don't need to talk about it unless we're doing something. I kept trying to talk about it. >> [sighs and gasps] [laughter] >> And then after that, I was just confused. I just didn't see him like I did see him before anymore. >> Yeah. >> But I still cared about him. I [laughter] don't know why. >> Well, when you first started seeing him when you when you guys first met for the first few times, did he open up to you right away or did it take a while? >> No. It took a while. >> So, you had to work to try to get to know him. >> Yeah. >> To try to get him and I'm sure that that um when he finally started to open up a little bit from the very beginning, he's not talking to you and then you're you know, you're brand new right out of college. You're talking to him and then finally he starts you start feeling like you're making a breakthrough. >> I thought he was strange, trust me. >> He's starting to trust you. >> [laughter] >> I thought I was taking him places that positive experiences. Like I took him to the Ohio State Fair. I took him to a trampoline park. Like I was trying to give him something to look forward to. I wanted him to trust me. I wanted him to see me as something that was positive and not just negative. Like he just has to talk about his problems and like this person is just going to tell him what to do, tell his mom everything he does. >> Mhm. >> Because I did try to tell her something he did and then he got mad at me. And he just told me he didn't trust me anymore. I tried to tell him that I tried to tell his mom that he wanted to steal a car. And I he I was going to tell her more of what he actually said, but I just got scared. I was just trying to like make it light, like it's it's not a big deal, but this is like what he's thinking about. And this was This was in like till Well, this is in August, right when school started. >> Do you think a strict mother? Do you think that the control that she has over him affects the way he behaves? >> Yeah. >> The restrictions that she puts and then he acts out more because of those restrictions. >> Yes, that's what That's what I've been taught. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> When you have a very, very strict parent, you defy the their beha- the behaviors, you defy them. Like if a kid is constantly having restrictions all the time, he's not allowed to do anything. She was telling me he's not allowed to go to his friend's house, he's not allowed to do anything. So then that made me feel bad for him. And I was trying to work with her. I was trying to just say let's compromise, let's try to like let him see his friends a little bit. Give him a little bit of freedom so that way he doesn't feel as restricted. >> And then like when she said he can't go to that birthday party up at the trampoline park, you kind of felt like she was being too strict. >> He didn't even like tell me that she didn't let him. >> I thought so you thought that she knew you guys were going though? >> Huh. No, [clears throat] I knew after I picked him up that he wasn't actually allowed to go, but before I picked him up I didn't know that. >> Mhm. >> But he just said it all like >> So that was his way of trying to kind of control >> [laughter] >> I I wanted to know who was going to be there. And I knew the kids that were going to be there and I knew it was safe. >> Kids from school? >> The school that I worked at. I knew that they were going to This is the ones that like harassed me, but originally like I didn't I didn't think that anything was wrong. She said that she trusted She She And so I trusted him. >> Mhm. >> He She said that was the only friend that he was allowed to hang out with. And so >> Is one of the ones that was texting or on that phone call? >> harassing me. >> How old is he? >> I don't even [laughter] know. >> So you'd met him before? >> grade. So he's around 13, 14, I don't know. He's a pretty big kid. >> Watch what the detectives are doing. They open by telling her she isn't a bad person. They keep asking what he did to her. That isn't sympathy, it's a technique, minimization, and its job is to make talking feel cheap. A suspect who feels understood keeps explaining. Everything she says next, she says because two detectives made it safe to say. >> And then so when did you find How did you find out that he had videotaped you? Tell us more about like what happened after you dropped him off and everything, how you knew. >> [snorts] >> After I took [laughter] After I dropped him off where >> I like cuz you said that you found out that later that night >> No, you said later that night you've had found out like that same day that he had taken the video and everything. >> Yeah, And we had plans to have a girls night that night. >> And? >> [panting] >> I was like >> [laughter] >> going to take him to the park and I was going to have my two girls night after I was done letting him see his friends and stuff. He was only going to be there for like an hour. And then after I dropped him off, >> [sighs and gasps] >> me and my friend went downtown like to campus area. We were just going to have a girls night. I was going to pretend that didn't happen. >> Mhm. >> I was just going to move forward and just pretend nothing happened. But then I started getting phone calls. >> [sighs] [gasps] >> Around the second bar that we went to, I think. It was that was at. Uh we were about to walk into Little Bar. And I started getting phone calls when I was across the street from Little Bar and that's when they started telling me things. They started saying things over the phone. He's very calm like Oh well. Told me what what happened. He told everyone what happened and I was like >> [snorts] >> Was on the phone call too or was it just talking on the phone? >> No. >> [sighs] [snorts] >> He just kept saying I >> [laughter] >> He knew what happened. And then I tried to deny it. >> Mhm. >> At first I didn't deny it. Because I knew he he did tell them obviously. >> Yeah. >> [sighs and gasps] >> And I knew that his friends were asking if he was going to [ __ ] me before he told me in the car. He told me in the car on the way to When I dropped him off, he told me in the car that his friends were asking him if he was going to [ __ ] me. Before anything happened, before anything sexual happened. That's what his friends said. >> [sighs] >> When they were texting you or calling you, was this like a phone or just regular chat stuff? Chats? >> It was like phone calls. It was a phone call. >> Phone call. Okay. >> [gasps] >> And this wasn't from number it was from >> No. >> Do you think it was like his actual phone or was he using Google number or something or you think that's like his actual phone number? >> I don't know if it was a Google phone number. >> So that was the only number he ever contacted you on? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> [gasps] >> That was the only night I ever talked to him over the phone. And I don't remember if it was on my work phone or if it was on my regular phone. Like I I think I left my work phone in the car. >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> So it might have been my personal phone that they were calling me on. >> So then obviously knew they were calling you because he gave them your number, right? >> I I don't know how they got my personal number. I don't remember. >> Okay. >> I know how they got Wait. I know how they got my personal number. They FaceTimed me in a group chat with the day before something, 2 days before, and he just had to ask me if I would take him >> [clears throat] >> into this trampoline park. >> Mhm. >> And I told him yes, so that's how he got my phone number. It was a FaceTime call. to me they're both of them. >> And so you said at first you were denying it, and then they just kept picking at you, and then what happened? >> He said, "Well, there's a video." And then he started repeating me what I said in the video. He started saying like "Oh, um are you going to come? Are you going to finish?" And then I said, "No." And I said, "You know why?" He just started repeating what I said. And he told me that like my face was in it, so he knew it was me. And then he's like, "There's only one way that this can end." And I just said, "What? How is it How What do you mean?" And he just said, "Well, you can do it to me, too." He just kept saying that. I don't remember the specific words. >> Mhm. >> I was just like, "No. Like I would never do that. I'm not like that. I don't I didn't want to do [clears throat] that." >> And then what did he say? >> He's like, "Well, I can just tell Mr. M. I'm just going to tell Mr. M on Monday at school." >> That's their teacher, I'm assuming. >> It's like the principal. >> [sighs] >> And how did the phone call end? >> I [snorts] started I started freaking out. >> I'm sure. >> I started crying. >> Mhm. >> I started saying that I wanted to die. Like I couldn't do this. I [laughter] didn't want to do it. >> Yeah. >> I just kept saying like I JUST WANT TO DIE. I JUST WANT TO DIE. LIKE I'LL KILL MYSELF. I HAVE A CHILD. YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME. I DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOU GUYS. >> CUZ they're basically saying they're going to ruin your life, right? Yeah. So, what did they say to that? >> And they just kept saying chill, chill, chill, chill, chill. Like we won't tell. We won't tell. Just don't kill yourself. >> [snorts] >> And they just kept saying you did this to yourself. It's your fault. And then [laughter] after like 30 minutes, I don't even know It was a really long phone call of them just saying the same stuff over and over again. >> Mhm. >> [laughter] >> And then um this guy that he was a a bouncer there. He knew me already. That's why I went to that bar specifically because I I wanted to see him. >> Mhm. >> And because he used to let me in the bars all the time a long time ago. And like he knew Nick and stuff, my fiance and so [snorts] I was like I know where he works. I'm just going to go say hi to him and stuff. So, he started coming over to me. He's like what's going on? Like why are you so upset? Why are you crying? >> [gasps] >> And I just kept saying work stuff. Just work stuff. Like It's just like just too much. It's stressing me out. These kids are stressing me out. And he said don't worry about them. Just stop worrying about them. Like it's fine. Just have fun. And he just brought me a drink, like alcohol. >> Mhm. >> He told me to drink it. He just said it'll be fine. Like just stop stressing about that. Just have fun with your friend. Like and my friend she came outside. I had like four people come up to me during this conversation and ask me if I was okay. And that they knew who I was, so they just opened the door for me. >> Oh, I got you. >> So, I never signed in. >> Mhm. And so, the whole thing with the the trampoline park and how that all started. This was a was it like a Friday? Like a >> I think it was Saturday. >> Saturday, the >> Yeah. >> Like September 16th or something? Does that sound familiar? >> I don't know. >> But it was on a Saturday. Like in sometime in September, right? >> It was in September. Everything that happened was in September. Everything that happened between me and him was within a week and a half of me like going to Harding Hospital. >> Okay. So, you So, this happened on the 16th. Um, he's back home. You're getting these You go out with your friend at the bar. Um, and you're getting all these calls all of a sudden from his friends and they're making these threats like, "Hey, if you don't do this to us, we're going to tell him." And then you And then obviously, you're terrified because um, you know, you're afraid of what's going to happen to you. Um, and then you end up getting through the night. Um, so, this is Saturday and then you talk to him a little bit um, that night. And um, so, later on you guys um, So, then the next week you have to start seeing him again, all right? Or um, >> Yeah, I saw him So, me and his mom had a conversation the next morning on Sunday because she was really frustrated with me because I took him there. >> Mhm. >> And I felt really bad. I didn't want her to like see me that way because I didn't That wasn't my intentions. Like I wasn't trying to like go against her stuff. >> [gasps and laughter] >> But I was also like just trying to be a support person for him. >> Just someone he could count on. I tried to I dropped everything. Every time he called me, every time he wanted me, I dropped everything for him. >> And he would call you like 3:00 in the morning, right? >> He did, yeah. >> So, you went from very beginning he's not talking to you. >> texted me. He didn't call me. I called him, but he texted me and he started saying stuff like he was so stupid and just This was before anything happened but like before before anything happened between me and him ever. He just kept saying he was stupid. >> So, I'm sure that made you feel like I mean like So, you're someone he's turning to. He's feeling down about himself and about what's going on. So, he's turning to you to help him out. Um So, I mean I guess I mean that would make you feel good that you built that level of trust up with him. >> I was >> You know, it starts from the beginning. I mean you're um where he's not talking to you at all and then all of a sudden um you know, he's [clears throat] he's opening up to you and you're help- you felt like you're probably helping him, right? You're somebody that he can rely on that he can talk to. And then he takes advantage of you at the trampoline park. >> That Saturday. >> [laughter] >> Uh um >> [snorts] >> And so, I did I saw him like Thursday and I saw him on Saturday. When he was he got suspended and then he got sent there. By that point he already had my work phone. And on Thursday he had called me in the middle of the night. Well, I >> [clears throat] >> I said he called me. Sorry, excuse me. He he messaged me and then I called him because he messaged me saying how stupid he was. >> This is the the Thursday before everything happened or this is the Thursday >> This is a whole week and a couple days before. >> Okay. >> And I stayed on the phone with him until 8:00 in the morning. He called me at 3:00 a.m. So, we were on the phone for like 5 hours. He fell asleep and I fell asleep. And I woke up the next morning and I was worried about him because on the phone that night he just kept throwing stuff. He kept just I feel like I have a hair in my mouth right now. >> Spit it out. >> [clears throat] >> You want the water help? >> [snorts] >> I don't know. I don't want to >> It's fine. >> Here. Drink that. Is that better or worse? >> It's fine. >> So, then after everything happened on Saturday, you talked to him Sunday and Monday and then how did things continue with you and how was he acting and everything? >> I went to the school >> [sighs] >> on Monday to talk to him. Just have a normal like I just wanted to At first, I just wanted to pretend like nothing happened. Like nothing happened. Like just go back to normal sessions. And just keep it to myself. And >> [clears throat] >> And um we had a normal session and >> [snorts] >> like I knew he was sending like videos of him fighting people to his friends and stuff and I was like, "You can't do that. You need to watch what you're doing on the internet. Like you need to watch what you're posting and watch what you're saying. Like, you need to just delete the things that you're posting. And um he started hiding his stories from me. And so, I couldn't see what he was posting or anything like that anymore. But, I knew. And then um >> So, you were Instagram friends with him just to kind of see like what he was >> [snorts] >> up to and stuff like that. >> it started, yeah. >> Okay. >> But, then like that was ended up being our only way of communication cuz he never had a phone. He used everybody else's phones. >> Okay. So, he'd [clears throat] just log in and talk from whatever phone. >> Yeah. Um >> [sighs] [snorts] >> But, I told him like I like this video, like I I don't know like what to do. Like, it's freaking me out that you have this video of me and stuff. And like I was like um how are we going to like separate this? How are we going to like fix this if you want me to continue to be your therapist? Like I don't know what to do. >> Mhm. >> And he's like, "We don't need to talk about what we did unless we're doing something." So, he kind of just shut me down. Like, he wouldn't talk about it. >> Did he ever say like, "I will delete the video. I'm going to"? >> me. He told me every time. He said, "Yeah, I'll delete it. I'll delete it." >> Do you think he did? >> Well, I knew he didn't eventually. >> Mhm. >> Because [clears throat] Friday came around, and we had plans. He wanted me to take pictures of him. Like, he always wanted me to like take pictures of him for his Instagram and stuff. >> [snorts] >> And he did vape. He did always have a vape. And >> [clears throat] >> I've never even and um we went into the store. But on our way on our way there he This is when he had asked me if we could [ __ ] again. He said but he didn't say it outright. He said, "Do you still have the wraps?" And I didn't know what that even meant. I don't even I've never heard of being called that before. So I was like, "What are you What are you talking about? No." And he was like, I was like, "That you smoke? Like I thought you were talking about like >> [snorts] >> like weed or something." And so I was really confused cuz I'm like, "I've never even smoked weed like we've never even talked about doing that." So that's what I thought he was talking about at first and I was like, "What? No, I don't have those." And he's like, "Do you want to fuck?" And I was like, "Oh, that's what you're talking about. Like you're talking about like the condoms." And I told him I didn't know what that meant. And I didn't answer his question. Uh we went to the store after that and I was just walking around. I was kind of keeping my distance just like looking at all the kids stuff for my son. >> Mhm. >> And just letting him like look around at whatever and he kept asking like, "Can I get these like pants?" And I just started kind of getting frustrated because I didn't want to keep doing this anymore. Like I didn't want to keep spending money on him anymore and I I started to feel like he was manipulating me at this point. Like I just started to just It took me a long time to see it. I don't really know why cuz when I look at it now there's so many red flags. >> Mhm. >> But now when I was in the store I was like, "He's just manipulating the [ __ ] out of me I feel like right now." Like I kept feeling like he's just using me to buy him stuff. And during this in the store he started like saying like well I can get this and we can take pictures and like all this [ __ ] and I was just like okay like I don't and then I just kept telling him I don't like those pants. I don't like this. He wouldn't buy it if I didn't like it or he wouldn't you know ask for it if I said I didn't like it. So I just started saying well I don't like it to everything that he picked out. >> Mhm. >> And he picked out this shirt. And um he had picked out this shirt and I was like okay that's fine like it matched your shoes whatever like because he already had a black pair of pants so I was like he can just I'll just tell him to use those and we can take a pictures a different day and I'm just going to leave. I'm going to ask him to delete the video. I already did everything he wanted me to do at this point. Like I did everything he wanted me to do. And I knew he had his phone this day so I was like I'm going to make him delete the video right in front of my face. And then while we were in the store he's like well I told him like okay and then we're going to go home like I'm going to drop you off at home because I have to go to work. And he's like well aren't we going to like find a spot? And I was just like oh I got to go to work like and you told me you were going to delete the video like >> What comes next is the hardest part of this tape to watch. For the next 10 minutes the detectives agree with her. They tell her the boy took advantage of her. That she is not a monster. That he manipulated her. Ohio law does not ask whether a 13-year-old agreed. The statute she was charged under turns on one thing, his age and hers. They are agreeing with her to keep her talking. She takes it all the way. >> [snorts] [snorts] [snorts] >> You want some water? >> [snorts] >> Um I I mean I don't know. I I I I appreciate you talking to us, Payne, because now I feel like I have a better understanding of everything that happened. Um and why things happened the way they did. Um and I think that's important for us to understand. I think there's a lot of I mean this obviously this situation got way out of control. >> And obviously the story that was telling >> [clears throat] >> you know, is completely different than the one you're telling, and that's the only one that we have had up until now. So, hearing your side of things really does help us. >> I mean things match up in in a certain degree to what we heard and what we found as far as the events that happened and the time frames and everything. Um but hey, getting able to hear from your perspective as to why things happened it helps us to understand um better um why it happened. I want to ask you a question about today uh real quick before we Well, we'll try to wrap this up cuz we kind of it's it's really late. We've put you through a lot today. Um [clears throat] about today you when you went over there and you had the gun, and I know that you feel were feeling suicidal. Um we had uh the SWAT officers were out there. They were talking to you trying to get you to come down cuz obviously they didn't want you to hurt yourself. Um and you fired it you fired the gun off. >> [snorts] >> Uh why did you fire the gun off? >> I didn't know the safety was on or not. >> So you were just checking to see if the safety was on to see if it would go off or not. Have you ever shot a gun before? >> Yes. >> Okay. So you kind of >> that one. >> Not that one, but you've shot guns before. So you have a kind of a basic understanding then of how to load a gun. Get one in the chamber ready to go. So you what you fired it off. Were you aiming at anything in particular? >> No, the sky. >> Just the sky. Okay. What were you testing it? >> Because I [snorts] wanted to put it to my head but I was scared. >> Do you have any questions for us, Peyton? >> [sighs] >> I just don't understand. >> I mean the main issue now is you remember the condition of your bond, right? Was that you weren't allowed to have any contact with And that's kind of why we're here right now, obviously. >> So nobody cares. >> That wasn't your intention. >> That's not true, Peyton. A lot of people care. >> I He just wanted to brag about me. He just wanted to brag right? He just wanted to show all of his friends. >> So I I mean you're you're you had a very hot difficult job to do with him. You're a a social worker. You're a brand new um social worker. You just got out of college. You're going there and you're dealing with a very hard case. It's a very hard case. On one aspect he's a 13-year-old boy, right? On the other aspect, he's also grown up in a very harsh environment, a very hard environment. He's lived He's been on the streets. He's been through a very difficult He didn't grow up in, you know, out in the country. He grew up in the inner city, and it's very difficult. So, he has grown up a lot He's matured in a lot of ways. >> [laughter] >> Um with the way that he is, the way that he can control people, the way that he can control situations, cuz he's had to do that to survive. Um and he's [snorts] very highly influenced by his friends, and that whole dynamic they It's how other people view them is very important. And so, yeah, I think that, you know, he's got a lot of confusion going on, but obviously you're in a in a very difficult situation, cuz you are dealing with a very mature person for his age, given the where where he grew up, but then also he's [snorts] also a 13-year-old boy who still acts like a 13-year-old boy at times, and he's not um emotionally mature enough to deal with a healthy relationship, and he obviously um took advantage of you. And I don't know that I you know, I I don't understand exactly everything that was going through his head. But, um we don't think that you're a horrible person, Peyton, okay? We don't think that you're a monster, we don't think that you're I I just this this situation got really out of control, and then that video is being held over your head, [clears throat] and >> [snorts] >> unfortunately, he used that to control you, and manipulate you, and and get what he wanted. >> No, he just wants to play victim. As if he's dealt with some type of trauma from me. >> Um I don't I don't ever get the feeling from him that he felt like he was being traumatized by you, but um >> Because it seems like everyone wants to just pretend he's some victim. >> Yeah. Well, unfortunately with the way the law is written and everything, they look at his age and that's all. They don't look at anything but his age and and being the age difference between the two of you and your position and everything and that's kind of it's kind of black and white there. >> Because children can't manipulate adults. Is that what you're saying? >> No, I'm not saying that. But to this day >> you see these [ __ ] kids running the streets, stealing cars. And you think that he's not capable OF THAT? HOW MANY OF THOSE KIDS that are 14 years old stealing all those cars have done that to somebody and nobody knows? They're all running guns. >> And we're definitely not saying that we don't think he's capable of it. >> But it sounds like you guys just only care about his side of the story. >> No, um that's not true. That's why we wanted to talk to you and I think I have a better a a much better more clear understanding of everything that happened. >> [clears throat] >> And in the end with these type of with with these things, it's not even it's not up to us. These type of things go before a grand jury, they make the decisions. All we do is collect the information and then we write it up and we send it over. So now I can better describe your perspective on what happened. I can better describe um to the prosecutor, the grand jury why what happened and why it happened. We have a better more clear understanding now and then they make the decision in the end. >> [snorts] >> Yeah, before all we had was, you know, so this happened, so that happened, but now it's a two-sided story which obviously every story is. >> So. Um we're going to step out for a second, Payton. Do you want You want a drink or anything before we before we leave the room? >> [laughter] >> All right. You can take this. >> So, is nobody going to give a [ __ ] about what happened to me? Nobody's going to care about me. No one's going to care about my trauma. >> No, all this information is going straight to the top. >> So, you're going to put me in a cage again? >> Payton, our hands are really tied here, okay? We don't have any choice in the matter. >> I mean, you have to understand that going over there also had a gun. >> [laughter] >> You know, I mean >> To kill myself? I would never hurt anyone else. >> But, that's not what how she felt, you know? I mean, you had SWAT officers out there for hours. >> There's a There's a process this is going to go through, and it's going to I'm not I'm not going to lie to you. This is going to suck for a while, okay? But, this is not the end of the world, and this is not the end of >> It's easy for you to say because you don't have to think about a little kid touching your body. >> That's true. I am not I was not in your position, and I don't know >> [clears throat] >> Would you be okay if a little kid touched your body? Would you be okay if they PULLED YOUR PANTS DOWN AND TOLD YOU WHAT TO DO? >> And I do feel horrible about everything that happened to you. I don't Like, if you think we don't care, that is 100% not true. But, like he said, like legally we can't just be like, "All right. I mean, you've been through like a [ __ ] ton of horrible things." >> They told me to kick it out. >> I don't know why they told you that. We want you to get help, and we want you to be safe. We don't want you to >> me up like a dog when I have PTSD from this [ __ ] kid who's helping me? >> [laughter] >> I can't SLEEP AT NIGHT CUZ ALL I PICTURE IS WHAT HE DID AND WHAT HE SAID TO ME EVERY [ __ ] NIGHT. AND NOW I HAVE TO BE LOCKED UP LIKE A [ __ ] DOG, LIKE I'M AN ANIMAL AND TREATED LIKE [ __ ] WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO LIVE LIKE THAT? WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO LIVE AFTER THAT HAPPENED? AND THEN PEOPLE WANT TO WONDER WHY I WANT TO KILL MYSELF. >> I mean, you just have to think it's not going to be forever. And you have so much to live for. Obviously, I don't need to tell you you have your son. And yeah, it's going to suck, but you need to just get through it. If not for yourself, for him, right? And for your parents. [laughter] >> with this anymore. I DON'T WANT TO THINK about it anymore. >> [laughter] >> You guys just made me relive EVERYTHING ALL OVER AGAIN. I'VE ALREADY BEEN RELIVING IT EVERY [ __ ] DAY. YOU GUYS DON'T EVEN KNOW THE WHOLE PICTURE. >> [clears throat] >> You got that? You grab the door. >> Oh, yeah. I got it. Let's lock this. See you. >> Get this rolled up. >> The interview ran 2 hours and 24 minutes. The detectives walked out a little after midnight. Peyton Shires was booked into the Franklin County Jail on the 27th of October, 2023. She never got out again. She was still in custody 272 days later when she was sentenced. In November, the boy and his mother sued her. They also sued the agency that had put her in his life. The lawsuit alleged the agency had been told about her a month before the arrest and had not removed her. The agency admitted employing her and denied responsibility. In January 2024, a judge found her competent to stand trial. On the 28th of May, she pleaded guilty. Four counts of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, two counts of intimidating a victim or witness, one count of inducing panic with a firearm specification. There was no trial. The boy never had to take the stand. In that room, she had spent two and a half hours telling two detectives that a 13-year-old boy manipulated her. In court, that argument was never made. On the 27th of June 2024, Payton Shires stood in front of Franklin County Common Pleas Judge Mark Serrott. She faced a maximum of 28 and a half years. She told the court she had been extremely suicidal the night she went to the house. That her lack of boundaries had caused severe mistakes to be made. That the mother calling the police had saved her life. Her lawyer told the court the lines got blurred. The boy's mother did not accept that. Her statement to the court said he was manipulated, groomed, and sexually abused by Ms. Shires, and that she regretted ever letting her in the house. Then Judge Serrott answered the argument Shires had made to detectives eight months earlier. "He was a child," the judge said. "He was trying to get the help he needed. You're the adult. You're trained professionally to avoid situations like this." He sentenced her to 4 years and 9 months with 272 days already served. She was ordered to register as a sex offender every 180 days for 25 years. In July, she surrendered her social work license. On the 17th of July, she was committed to the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction. That was the sentence. It is not where this ended. The judge had built in a chance at early release after 18 months. Payton Shires took it. Ohio's Corrections record now lists her status as released on judicial release. The exact date is not in the public record we can verify, so we are not going to give you one. What the record does say is that she is no longer in prison. This was a Stay Alert Interrogation Production. 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