No, I I'm a horrible person. Who could do that? Who could do that? Push my husband and make him fall out the window. [snorts] >> I wish I could just go back and know that if I pushed him, it was going to happen. >> Amber, quit saying you pushed him out the window. Did you intentionally? >> No, of course not. Okay, that's what they're going to take it as, baby. >> A window 25 floors above downtown Tulsa. A young husband who never made it home and a 19-year-old wife, 7 months pregnant, left in a police interview room with the camera running. She told police she couldn't make a statement, but what she said in that room would follow her into a courtroom. Was it a tragic accident or something more? >> But he was fixing the T. He was like messing with the TV right here and the windows right here. and I pushed him and he fell in the window. >> Um, yeah, I'd like to talk to you. Get get a statement as to what happened. >> I >> How long you guys been married? >> I can't make a statement. I don't want this to turn out bad. >> On Tuesday, June 7th, 2011, at around 4:00 in the afternoon, a man fell from a 25th floor apartment window at the University Club Tower in downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma. He landed on a parking garage below. A man outside called 911. He had just watched someone fall from the high-rise. His name was Joshua Hilberling. He was 23. Inside the apartment was his wife, Amber Hilberling. She was 19 and seven months pregnant with their son. The couple had been arguing that afternoon. Within hours, Amber was placed in a police interview room where a camera recorded everything. Detectives were still at the scene, so Amber waited with her grandmother beside her, and her grandmother had one instruction. Say nothing until a lawyer arrives. What follows comes from that recording in Amber's own words. >> [snorts] >> I shouldn't be here. [snorts] [snorts] Josh is dead and I'm here. I didn't just lose my husband. Judy and Patrick lost their son. Zach lost his brother. His grandma, this poor grandma's going to have a heart attack when she finds out that her little Josh is gone. All I kept seeing like I just held his broken body. [laughter and gasps] I just kept looking at looking at him. [snorts] I just can't even imagine this being real right now. [cough and clears throat] [snorts] Brian, are y'all on your way down here? Okay. Uh, at the apartment. >> Okay. Well, Amber is probably going to need an attorney. >> Okay. All right. All right. Bye. >> I'm down here with Amber. All right. Bye. Your mom and Nim's at the apartment. The police are talking to them. Amber, >> they can't. >> I'm not saying that you're guilty. Listen to me. The re what I'm saying is is that there's a lot of things at stake that people are going to be doing their jobs. Patrick and him, you know, they are going to come after you with everything they got. Okay? You know that. So, you've got to fight for that one and you got to fight for yourself. But who fights for John? >> He's in better. >> Listen to me. He's in God's >> Amber. Amber. Amber. He's in God's hands right now. >> He's not supposed to be. >> No, he's not supposed to be. But he's in God's hands. >> This isn't fair. >> Hello. [sighs] >> Yeah. >> [snorts] >> I've done I've done told her. Don't Don't say nothing. Don't say nothing. Yeah, I hear you. All right. All right. Bye. Listen to me for your safety. >> I'm going to go to jail. >> Listen to me. You have to listen to me. [music] Hello, >> babe. I love I'm in here in the room with her right now and I um uh Rhonda Nim's cops here at the apartment. I'm here with Amber and I we're I'm trying to get this done or she won't say anything till an attorney gets here. So, I'll call you whenever I can get out. All right. Love you. >> No, she's not. >> No. No, she's not. I mean, [snorts] physically, mental physically. Yeah, she's just no other than some cut. She's fine that away. All right. All right. Bye-bye. [snorts] when they come in and they asked you say, "I don't want to say nothing till my attorney gets here." Do you understand? The detectives at the scene still, okay? There'll be one clearing a little bit and they'll come down here and talk to you and all that. So, just hang tight. Okay. All right. >> Thank you. >> But doesn't that make me guilty? No, that makes the lawyer do his job because baby, they will bring everything in. >> But regardless, I'm going to jail. >> That doesn't mean we're just doing your rights. You just don't understand how things work. You just don't say nothing till your attorney gets here. Okay. So, we're going to be here for like hours. >> Yeah, it'll probably be a long night. >> But you don't say nothing until your attorney gets here. When they when they come in, just say, "I don't want to say nothing until my attorney gets here." Okay? Don't don't and don't slip any other way. You just have to stick to that because they are listen to me. They are going to poke you. >> I just want to be with Josh. I just want to die. >> No, you don't. >> Yes, I do. >> Amber, you got that baby there. >> This is Josh's baby. >> Just [laughter] Josh's baby. That's the only thing that Josh has got is that baby. >> He's supposed to be here. I'm such a bad person. >> Amber. No, I don't deserve to live. I don't deserve to be a mom. Josh deserves to be a dad. [gasps] And Josh isn't even a person anymore. You can't talk like that. I'm so sorry. And you can't talk like that in front of. You got to hold it together, baby. >> [snorts] >> I can't stop seeing Josh ball. I just want to be back in bed laying with him. That's never going to happen again. >> Yeah. >> Why did they have to die? I can't even. Like this is supposed to hurt so much more. I just want to see him smile again. [sighs] [snorts] This isn't fair. I just want to go back in time. I lost the person I love. The person I couldn't even imagine being separated from is dead. >> [laughter] >> Oh, George. [laughter] [sighs] [sighs] I just want to see him just one more time. [sighs] [snorts] I wonder if his parents know yet. >> I'm sure they did, but [snorts] >> they were right. They kept saying if we stay together I'm going to kill him. >> So you >> How did this happen? How did this happen? Why did he have to fall out the window? [laughter and gasps] Fall out a window? Why did mom put us in that apartment? >> Why are we there? Why were we there? [laughter] Why didn't I just leave? He was leaving. I kept just saying. And when he leaves, I'll go to my grandma's. Why didn't I just leave? He'd still be alive. >> Were y'all both struggling? >> What do you mean? And when you was >> I can't get the image of him go out of my head, him falling out the window. [snorts] [clears throat] I'm just trying to tell myself this isn't real and this is all going to be over soon. [snorts] Will you call Will you have mom bring me some different pants? >> Well, uh, right now ain't nobody going nowhere. [snorts] >> I can't. This isn't happening. Josh is dead. [snorts] His bones were sticking out all over his body. His soul body was broken. And I just held him and kissed his cheeks and screamed for him to wake up. This is going to turn into a nightmare. We just have to pray we'll get through it. I don't deserve to pray. Who am I praying to? Josh. Josh hates me. I'm not even going to be able to meet him any in heaven anymore because he just hates me. I killed him. >> Stop talking like that. >> What kind of person am I? You're a loving person that has been abused by Josh just as well. >> No, I I'm a horrible person. Who could do that? Who could do that? Push my husband and make him fall out the window. [snorts] >> I wish I could just go back and know that if I pushed him, it was going to happen. >> Amber, quit saying you pushed him out the window. >> [snorts] >> Did you intentionally? >> No, of course not. >> Okay. That's what they're going to take it as, baby. That's why I said [snorts] everything that you say, they're going to in a different matter cuz they're going to say, "Okay, Amber." >> Notice that no detective has asked Amber a single question. Everything we've heard, she has said to her grandmother, and her words pull in two directions at once. She calls herself a bad person. She says, "I killed him." She talks about wishing she could take back a push. Then her grandmother asked the question that would matter most. Whether she did it intentionally. Her answer is immediate. No, of course not. Whether that push was self-defense, an accident, or a crime is what a jury would later have to decide. >> I just don't understand this whole legal system. >> No, not that. I don't understand the whole pattern of events of the last year. Us getting married and going to Alaska, everything in Alaska, me being pregnant, coming back here, getting kicked out of mom's house, going to the apartment, and then all for it to just fall out of a high-rise building. [laughter] I wish y'all would have never went to the apartment. >> [snorts] >> I mean, what are the chance? How many times has that happened? All Josh's friends, his family, they're going to know he died because he fell out of a high-rise apartment. [snorts] And I just keep watching him fall over and over and over again in my head, watching him flail and think that he, you know, my last thought was, "Please catch yourself." And I just want to know what was going through his head. if he knew he was going to die, if he said a prayer, or if he cursed my name, or if he just thought that he could catch himself, too. And then just watching him hit the ground. Is there no balcony there from the living room? [snorts] >> No. [snorts] For the rest of my life, everyone's going to think I'm a murderer. My family, my whole family. >> Amber, we don't think that, baby. [snorts] All of Tulsa is going to know. I don't I want to be the one that's dead. I want to be dead. And I want Josh to be here. [gasps] What's >> What's back going to do? >> They could save him. >> [snorts] >> So, not only does he have to lose his daddy, he's got to lose his mama, too. I just have to I just want to go back, please. I just want to go back and just not not push him, just catch him. Something. This can't be real. >> [cough] [clears throat] >> I mean, I still have my whole life ahead of me, and I was supposed to spend it with Josh. [snorts] And now I'm going to go to prison. And Josh is dead. My baby's going to get taken away from me. >> [snorts] >> I can't believe this. I can't believe Josh fell. I wish I could just get it out of my head. >> I'm having a baby. >> I [snorts] just want to go to sleep. [snorts] just what am I going to >> that he had a handsome dad and that he he loved him and you will show his picture to him [snorts] and you will show him and tell him the good things about his dad. >> But I know what really happened. >> What really happened? You don't know what really happened. Y'all were in there. You were struggling. [sighs] >> I can't believe you fell out the window. Why did that happen? >> Cuz it's an apartment up there with a view. And >> why didn't I just leave? Why were we there? Why did he fall? Josh is dead. >> [laughter] >> That's what I'm saying. This is a nightmare that's just now getting started. [clears throat] I mean, as if Josh being dead, I can't even say it without believe. I can't believe it when I say it. [cough] [snorts] You have to remember what I told you. If you am Amber, if you don't do anything else, [snorts] you got to remember what I told you. I beg [snorts] about the attorney. What if it doesn't work? it or you let the attorney handle it and they're going to try to break you. Don't I'm just waiting for Josh to walk in the room. Tell me that he's sorry, that he loves me so much. >> [snorts] >> I just keep seeing him fall. I wish I could just get it out of my head. It's never going to go away. [snorts] Every time I close my eyes, I'm going to see it for the rest of my life. >> I feel so guilty for breathing, for not crying. You're in shock. [snorts] >> But I feel guilty for just being here. I just want him to be in the hospital. I just kept screaming his name, screaming, saying, "Wake up, please." And I just waited for him to wake up. [snorts] I just held him. His body broken to nothing. Every bone in his body was sticking out. And I just his eyes were open [laughter and gasps] and I just looked at him and I just kissed him and I said, "I'm so [ __ ] pleased. I love you. Wake up. Was [snorts] there anybody else around? [snorts] [snorts] [sighs] >> [snorts] >> God, [snorts] I just can't even close my eyes. [snorts] This isn't happening. He's going to have to grow up without death. All because of me. [snorts] Why did I do this? How How could I do this? I want to die. I just I want to be with Josh. [laughter] And Josh probably doesn't want to be with me. >> [snorts] >> This is such a bad nightmare. I just want Josh to hold me just one more time and then I'll say goodbye and I'll leave him alone. But at least he'll still be there. Bye. And his family. >> He's going to be there. He's going to look up though. Why did this happen? This is just This is the only stuff that happens in movies. [snorts] I killed him. [snorts] I mean, I know what I have to do. What is that? What do you have to do? >> You're going to have to quit saying that. >> Yeah, I know. You didn't say it. >> You didn't kill him, Amber. >> I know, but it was an accident that went wrong, but because of me, I mean, I know I can't say those things. I know what I have to do to keep me fight safe. [snorts] >> No. Um, [clears throat] the only thing that I'm telling you is just for you to talk to your attorney. You have to be open and honest with your attorney. >> Listen closely to who says what. It's her grandmother who raises the idea of a struggle. And she asks whether they were both struggling. And later she tells Amber, "You don't know what really happened. Y'all were in there. You were struggling." Amber's own words keep coming back to something else. The push and the image of Josh falling. At trial, her defense would argue self-defense that Josh had grabbed her by the shoulders. Prosecutors would argue there were no signs of a struggle at all. In everything we've heard so far, Amber doesn't describe one. >> I'm just saying that you your emotions right now, you're in shock. [snorts] >> What if I'm not? What if I'm just a horrible person who can't cry? Or >> you're human. You're in shock. You seen your husband that you love die? That's shock. >> Don't shock. >> 7 and 1/2 months pregnant. You're carrying a child. >> I don't feel like I'm in shock. I just don't feel anything. I just keep hoping it's all that Josh is just going to walk in here. [laughter] But he's not. [gasps and laughter] I just God, I can't take this. I can't take this. I can't do this. I can't. [sighs] I can't. Josh is dead. Not only is he dead, but the way he died, I just wish it would leave my head. Every time I close my eyes, I see it. [gasps and sighs] It's like torture. just a my subconscious just keeps playing it over and over and over again as if one time seeing it isn't bad enough. I have to see it over and over and over. I just want to save him. I want to save him. I just want it. At least if I can go back and take back the push, at least I can save him. >> The push the push. I pushed him against the wall and he Oh my god. At least I could catch him. I tried, but it was all so fast. [laughter] And I just want to know what his last thoughts were. What could you think? What could go through your head when you're falling to your death? >> Was he fixing to [snorts] Where was the candle things? >> There's like these big There's like these stand up candle things like this high. They're just like little wire things, but he was fixing the T. He was like messing with the TV right here and the windows right here. And I pushed him and he fell into the window and fell. Oh god. >> [cough and snorts] >> I'm never going to get over this. [snorts] I'm never going to understand it. I mean, I thought divorce was going to hurt. [snorts] He's not even here. I can't even talk to him. Every time I pick up my phone, I'm just going to want to text him. >> [snorts] >> Why is this happening? >> Sorry. I don't know what's taking him so long. [snorts] Let me get your Amber. Is that right? >> Yeah. >> What's your last name? Hillberling. >> I'm sorry. >> Hillberling. >> Hillberling. >> How do you spell that? >> A G R L I N. >> No. >> Oh. >> H I L [snorts] P E R >> P >> B >> B E R >> L I N G. >> Okay. Detective's here. I think he's talking to one of the witnesses now and he's got to talk to another one. Then they'll be in here. All right. >> [snorts] >> I can't I can't do this. [snorts] Josh is gone for forever. I'm only 19. >> [snorts] >> I have the next 60 years to think about this to let it torture me. I'm never going to find someone that I love more than Josh. I'm never going to find someone as perfect for me as he was. And I ran all of it. [laughter] God, why did I do that? [laughter] [snorts] God, I just want to go back. [laughter] What? The first time y'all got to fight? I killed him. He's dead. [sighs and gasps] I touched his bones all broken and sticking out of his body. Everything was bit backwards. I rolled him over [gasps] and just held him. I didn't care. I want this to be over. I love you. I can't believe this. What is [snorts] I'm going to have this baby and it's going to be just like Josh. And I'm scared because it's going to remind me of him every day. look like him. And I was supposed to enjoy it with Josh. And I stole that from Josh. I didn't. I stole his whole life away from him. [snorts and gasps] He's 23. He's supposed He's never going to watch. He's not gonna be there when he's born. He's not gonna watch him grow up. Watch him get married. See how Greek? Oh my god. It's okay, baby. No. Josh is gone. [laughter] I mean, what if you lost Papa before anything ever even got to happen? I'm so sorry. [laughter] What kind of person am I? [laughter] I don't deserve to be here. [laughter] How can this trash out the window? Why? Why? [laughter] I [snorts and clears throat] was not. I'm not looking forward to all the nights I'm going to spend crying and waking up screaming, dreaming about him. >> That's why we have therapist little head. >> Dreaming about what happened. Every time I I just see it. I can't get it out of my head now. [sighs] >> [snorts] >> I just can't imagine how his parents feel [snorts] or how his brother's going to feel. He's all the way in Afghanistan. Him and his brother have grown up protecting each other. [snorts] I'm such a bad person. [snorts] Josh was so special. >> He is so special. [snorts] >> What am I supposed to say to them when they come in here? >> Think about the thing to say. >> Hi. Are you Amber? Yes. >> Yeah. My name is Jeff. I'm very sorry. Very sorry. I'm sorry. You I'm her grandmother of that horse. >> Okay. Very sorry. We went through this. Um Yeah. I'd like to talk to you get get a statement as to what happened. Can I talk to talk to her in private? >> Yeah. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> Thanks. >> How old are you? 13. >> How long you guys been married? >> I can't make a statement. I don't want this to turn out bad. >> Okay. Okay. Well, >> my mom, I think, is calling an attorney. >> Okay. Is that what you want to do? >> And I'm not supposed to say anything till he gets here. >> Okay. Who is your attorney? >> I I don't know. >> Okay. What's your mom's name? >> Rhonda Whitlock. Rhonda Whit Lock. Okay. And um you know her phone number. Okay. Let me just get all your information then and we won't talk about the case at all. [snorts] Okay. Amber [laughter] >> and I'll let your grandma come back in here. Okay. What's What's uh >> I can't deal with this. >> Okay. Can Can you tell me your name and stuff? >> Amberling. Okay. Is it H I B? >> No. H I L. >> Okay. >> B E R L I N G. >> L I N G. Would you like to Is this your water? >> You want another water or pop or anything? Okay. I'll call your mom. Okay. >> You You want your grandma to come sit back in? >> Yes, please. >> Okay. This is where the recording turns. Minutes earlier. Amber gave her grandmother the most detailed account on the tape. The television, the window, the push. She says she pushed him and he fell. Then an officer walks in and asks for a statement. Amber says she can't make one and waits for a lawyer. That is her right. But the camera had been running the whole time and the words she had already spoken would later be played for a jury. Josh, baby, I will never ever forgive myself. I can't even begin [laughter] to accept this. I want you to be here. Just come back. Please. [laughter] Please. [snorts] I love you. I love you so much. [gasps and laughter] I hope I hope you are happy. I will spend the rest of my life paying for this. That was >> Oh my gosh. >> Don't push him. You'll get it. I just I look at this and I think of all this stuff on Josh. Everything was split open. You could see bones and blood and guts and [laughter] [sighs] [snorts] God. I just wish I had a time machine. I just watched him fall, not doing anything, standing safely in the apartment all night. The love of my life fell. And I just kept saying to myself, "Please catch yourself. Please catch yourself." Wondering why the whole time I was ever going to think that he could catch himself. [snorts] I was hoping maybe he'd just fall and break his leg or something. You was hoping he would fall? >> No. I mean, while he was falling, all these thoughts were running through my head like, "Please catch yourself. Just Okay. Why Why did you Was you fixing to go out the door? >> What do you mean? >> Was you fixed? Wasn't you fixing to come over my house?" >> Yeah, I was waiting for him to leave. I didn't even yell at him or anything. I don't know what happened. He was the one walking around yelling at me, being mean, and I was just cleaning up the glass. I didn't I didn't say anything mean to him. I didn't yell at him. I just sat in the bathroom crying so hard I was throwing up. and he came in there and said, he said, "We've I've got all these options." He said, "What do you" He said, "You want me?" He kept saying, "What do you want to do?" And I said, "Please make your own decisions." And he said, "Okay, I will." He said, "I want to work things out with you, but we need to be separated for a while." His He had already talked to his dad. He had done talked to you. >> Yeah, he had just got off the phone with him. His dad was at work, so his dad was going to pick him up after he got off of work. [snorts] >> That's why he was going with his friend. And he was on the phone with his friend and he just hung up with his I mean, I don't even know if he was on the phone. I don't know. I just >> Then you come out of the bathroom. Yeah, it came. I was getting He had dumped all my laundry out and I was putting it all back in there. I just don't understand why. I just wish I could go back and just have left. >> Well, you gathered your laundry up, wouldn't you go out the door? >> Yeah. And I I couldn't leave because the guy was in there measuring the window that Josh had broke. >> Was all this going home with the guy there? >> He was out on the balcony measuring the window from the outside on the balcony from the bedroom and we were in the living room. >> Oh. >> So it was somebody in the >> Yeah. So I couldn't leave cuz the guy was in there measuring the apartment. [snorts] Were y'all hollering and stuff? >> No, we weren't yelling or anything. Josh was yelling, but not while the guy was in there. [snorts] >> When there was a guy, had he left? >> No, he was there when Josh >> still there. He was still there. >> Yeah, he was out on the balcony and I he heard me start screaming. I was screaming. was screaming, running around, and I ran out the door to go down the elevator to go meet to go get Josh and he came out and he was like, "Oh my god, he fell." And I was like, "I know." I was like, "I have to go get him. >> [music] >> I just want to go to sleep color, but can't. Every time I close my eyes, I see it. Hello. Uh, she just went to the bathroom. >> She We're down here in the investigating room. She won't be able to talk to you. >> Well, Josh is dead. >> I He fell out of the window and she can't say anything down here right now. Ronda Nim's on her way down. I'm in here with her until um somebody gets here. Okay. >> I I mean, I'm sorry. When I get out and know a little more, I'll call you or one of us will. All right. All right. Love you. Bye. In just over an hour, Amber Hillberling never gave police a formal statement. And on this tape, she never says she meant for Josh to die. What she does say again and again is that she pushed him and that he fell. Her grandmother begged her to stop saying it. To prosecutors, those words recorded in a police room were evidence. To her family, they were the grief of a 19-year-old who had just watched her husband fall. The question was never whether there was a push. It was what that push meant. Less than 2 years later, a Tulsa jury would hear these words for themselves and decide. Amber was first booked on a first-degree murder complaint. Prosecutors later charged her with seconddegree murder and first-degree manslaughter. She turned down an offer to plead no contest. Her trial began in March 2013. Amber testified that Josh had grabbed her shoulders, that she feared for herself and her unborn son, and that she never meant for him to go through the window. Prosecutors told the jury there were no signs of a struggle. On Monday, March 18th, 2013, after about 3 hours of deliberation, the jury found her guilty of seconddegree murder and recommended 25 years. On April 23rd, Judge Kurt Glasco imposed that sentence. In August 2014, the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals rejected her appeal. On October 24th, 2016, Amber Hilberling, 25 years old, was found dead in her cell at Mabel Basset Correctional Center. The medical examiner ruled her death a suicide. Her family disputed that finding. Joshua Hilberling was 23 years old. He was a husband, a son, and a brother, and he was weeks away from becoming a father. His son was born after his death. He is remembered by the family who loved him. For more carefully examined police interrogations, original case analysis, and the evidence behind the headlines, subscribe to Stay Alert Interrogation.