I don't have any idea which >> was found dead on the side of a road and I have the evidence that you're the one that's there. >> Oh, >> I have irrefutable evidence that you're there. >> The last night of 1984, 23-year-old Tanya Ethridge McKinley went out in Pensacola, Florida to see in the new year. She had a son who was 18 months old, and a night out was rare. She was last seen just after 1:30 in the morning at Daryl's Bar and Grill. She never got home. 4 hours later, a family driving their dog to an emergency vet found her body in an empty lot beside Peacock Drive near Scenic on Highway. She had been beaten about the head. She had been strangled. A blood soaked towel lay next to her. Investigators recovered a male DNA profile and spent 35 years failing to match it to anyone. Then in 2020, genetic genealogy traced that profile through a family tree to a 57-year-old Pensacola man named Daniel Leonard Wells. Detectives followed him for 2 weeks and recovered a cigarette he threw from his car. It matched. On the 18th of March, 2020, they pulled him over. This is the interrogation of Daniel Wells. Hey, could you have a seat right here? >> Hey, Chuck M. Wells. Nice to meet you. >> Hornet. >> How you doing? >> Good. >> Um, I'm >> sure you got your questions right now. >> Yeah, this is um >> Sorry to have to surprise you like that here. We But we have a lot of things going on. >> Yeah. Um, we have a lot of things that we'd like to talk to you about. >> Okay. >> But we got to start off with a bunch of different information first. We kind of go through the procedural stuff if you don't mind. >> Um, >> it's Daniel, right? You go by Dan. >> Yeah. >> Mind if I call you Daniel? >> That's fine. >> What's your middle name? >> Leonard. And your date of birth? It >> is August 12th, 1962. And the current address >> is 5206 Cernney Road. >> What's phone number, sir? >> Uh 816 560 4025 >> 816. [snorts] >> Yeah. Kansas City. >> Was it Kansas City? Okay. Nowadays, everybody >> Yeah. Too much working with family. I had my sister. She's back in Maryland. And you >> got a sister in Maryland. >> Yeah. >> How many sisters do you have? >> I have four. Four. Yeah. Um, like I said, officer, we got a bunch going. We got a lot of questions to ask you. Um, part of the procedures we need to go through is before we go any further, I need to read you your rights. Does not mean that you're under arrest. It does not mean that you don't walk out of here. It just means right now we need to talk about what's going on with this case. >> Understand that? >> Sure. >> No questions about it. Okay. So, I want to read each I want to read all these to you. >> Okay. >> If you don't understand anything, you have any questions, please feel free to stop me. Okay. Before we ask you any questions, you must understand your rights. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be against you in court. You have the right to talk to lawyer for advice before we ask you any questions. You have the right to stop to have a lawyer with you during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be important for you before questioning if you wish. If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering anytime. You understand all this right? >> Yes. Do you have any questions about them? >> No. Feel free to read over them if you haven't sign right there. >> Do you have four sisters? >> Yes. >> No brothers. >> Any of them still live here? >> Uh, one of them I believe so is her Quincy. I haven't seen her for a while. >> Okay. >> She still lives works for >> She lives on Mallerie Street, I believe. >> You not talked to your sister? >> I haven't talked to her since, you know, >> How about your other sisters? Nan I talked to, she's here, but she's back and forth in Maryland, but uh and uh then I've got a sister Peggy that I talked to and uh they just had a falling out with my my mother and it's one of those things. >> That's a shame though when especially when parents >> Yeah. >> You know, now both your parents are gone, right? >> All you'll have is each other, >> right? >> It seems like sometimes we should be able to put stuff aside. >> Yeah. I've only got one brother. Yeah. So, and he doesn't live here. He lives up in India. >> It's not my It's not my choice. It's their choice to do that. I'm I'm always a shame. >> I understand. I mean, like my parents are getting elderly, too. So, I got to start looking at that future. Um I'm wondering what that's going to look like. So, Milton High School can I um Tanya? >> No. No, I don't know her. >> You'd remember her if you knew her. I mean, like if it was somebody you dated in high school. >> Yeah. I know. >> You'd remember that, right? >> Tanya. I knew it was Tanya Lynn. I went to school with. >> Yeah. Or she probably would have been like a year ahead of you in school. >> I don't know. The name doesn't ring a bell. No. >> I mean, that's kind of who we were talking about. And then it's going to be kind of strange if you don't know her at all. >> No, I don't. I I don't know her at all. >> Um, back in 1985. Yeah. >> You said you were living over here at Nathan Lee. >> Mhm. No, that was earlier. I was living on uh uh 12th Avenue. >> I'm sorry. >> 12th. Oh, I thought night the lady was first and then it was 12th. >> That was that was like 82 83 84 and then I moved over there. >> Okay. >> I rent it from my brother brother-in-law's brother who owned that. >> So 85 you're living at 120. >> Yeah. What >> kind of car were you driving? >> I had a Jeep. >> Still a Jeep. I got one now. Yeah. a white one. >> Okay. So, you had a black Jeep? >> Mhm. >> Anything else? >> No. Do >> you have any roommates living with anybody? >> Uh, I had a girlfriend. Um, let's see. Susie, she was from Mississippi. She moved here. Met through a friend. >> Met her through a friend and she moved over here with you. How long y'all stayed? No, she I met her here. >> So, you met her here, right? >> Uh, probably a couple of years. >> Do you know what happened to her afterwards? >> She Yeah, she worked for Pensacola PreS and then what you need, >> right? I don't know. >> Any other relationships after her while you're still in school? >> Um, no. Just uh Susie I can really not think of. >> Ever looked up since you've been back? No. >> No. Keep up with her like on Facebook or anything like that? >> I don't do Facebook. I don't do any of that. >> Social media. old schools of that. >> I think if it wasn't for my kids, you know, I don't know that I have been on it either. >> Yeah. >> So, you know where Elmrest Drive is? >> You ever lived on Elmrest? Have >> I? Don't think so. No. Would it surprise you if in 1985 were you in Collier County and got arrested for driving a suspended driver's license down there by Naples? >> I was working. >> You're working out there >> and made Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. That's the only time I guess. The only time I got a ticket or anything as far as county that was that was Woodcraft I guess back then too, >> right? Yeah. >> Marco Island was doing some work. Yeah. Improper left turn. >> But on that arrest, you told them you lived on Elmrest. >> I don't remember. I don't know where Elmrest is. Well, I mean, why would you give them a different address? So, it's not on your driver's license, right? Because you never lived there and your parents didn't live there. >> No, >> I don't remember that. I mean, I don't I didn't I didn't have a license. >> You remember not having a license? You remember? >> Well, they they Yeah, they arrest me for, you know, he moved to Zelia Trace. >> Where he lived? >> He lived in Zelia Trace. >> Zel Trace. But that address wouldn't have been his address. >> Yeah. >> You list your dad's got nearest relative the 76 Outer Drive in Milton. >> Yeah. Yeah. To Milton before he moved to um to u Valley College. >> So none of this information is like our driver's license registration type thing. So you you had to give them all this information. You just don't remember why you was at >> El I don't know. I might have I'm just trying to think how I live if I stay I stayed with a couple of friends. >> But you still I mean like moved in with them for a little bit or >> I would just stay over their house and stuff because I was I was at my father. This is right before I moved because I wanted to I was going to go to Kansas City earlier. My grandfather >> was getting was not well and I wanted to be around him and he died in 80 88 or ' 89 and then I moved to Kansas City but I stayed with my dad for like about a year over >> I was going to start this at the beginning the recording thing and I just realized I had not. being recorded the whole time anyway. All right. Well, I think we're going to end up jogging your memory on a lot of things from back then as as we go through this and so it has been a long time. Um I I I was a junior in high school in '85. And so there's a lot of things that are vague memories that you know I think back and I kind of got an idea we did something or we were here but I I don't remember all the details um except for like the really important stuff you know and and so I totally take that in account. I understand it's been 35 years. Um, but hopefully as we talk more, you'll start remembering some of this stuff. It'll start coming back to you, right? So, this suspended DL is like financial responsibility, which basically means you probably didn't keep up with your insurance or you didn't pay for something. Um, so that's why they suspended your driver's license, right? >> Yeah, I would imagine. >> So, so that's pretty normal there. Um, no other troubles >> really. Um, anything with the Sham County Sheriff's Office? >> She arrested for like fighting like a battery. >> No, never had a battery. No. >> Or been involved in a report >> for maybe an arrest for a battery that later on was like, "Never mind, it's not it's not the way it seemed and they just dropped charges." >> Never. I don't think so. Sure. >> Um, anything to do with any prostitutions? >> Prostitute. >> You have to know if I'm asking a question like that. >> No. No. I'm just I'm thinking um >> I think you remember if you got arrested for soliciting prostitution. >> Yeah. I got pulled over one time in Brownsville, but I didn't get uh I wasn't I wasn't soliciting prostitute. I wonder what they they pulled me up for four and then they went through my vehicle. >> But you got you got a charge for solicitation. >> I don't remember. I don't think I did. >> We just we talked out there on the street and stuff and it was >> Didn't get a ticket a notice to appear. Didn't get taken to jail. >> I don't think so. I don't think so. Well, would you be surprised to say when I ran your criminal history, it showed both his charges >> that you arrested for battery? >> Trying to remember battery? >> Yeah. >> For the battery. >> Arrested for solicitation. >> Don't nothing at all. >> I Yeah, I remember talking. Yeah, but I didn't I mean I didn't get I don't think I think I got arrested. I don't know. >> So, here's the thing. So, I mean I mean you're you're like me. You're older. Your experience you had a lot of life experience and stuff. So, you know, we're not here because of today, >> right? There's been a lot of work leading up to today. Um, and I ask you questions because they're giving you opportunities to clear some things up. Um, and I'll ask you questions that I already know the answer to, but it's better if the answers come from you. And so it gives you that opportunity to explain it. So just kind of keep that in mind, okay? >> That there there's a whole lot of work going on, a whole lot of knowledge, and we are not here by accident. >> Right. >> I'm sorry to take my heart. You ask me something. >> Well, I mean, you don't remember ever being in handcuffs at all? >> Yeah. >> Can you tell us about those times when you have been like detained and arrested in handcuffs? I guess it was the time in Brown school. >> Okay. You guess it was. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then what happened to you when they put you in handcuffs? >> Uh just I guess we went downtown and um I can't remember. >> They take a picture, book you, fingerprint, that stuff. So they they did >> arrest. Yeah. >> So I mean arrest is one of those things to where there's certain things in your life that cause trouble. walk up on me. I was I was peeing off the side of the off the side of my truck on a dumpster or whatever. And uh that was in Blue Springs. I can't remember the name of the little town. Anyway, but she made a comment to me about it and I was had been drinking and stuff and I said something rude to her. So that went and escalated from that. >> What do you mean escalated? Because a little side type thing is you >> Well, she I was exposed >> but you were just >> right. No, I wasn't doing I wasn't masturbating or anything like that. I was just I was just >> Oh, so you were just peeing by a dumpster. >> Yeah, that that was that was the one in um It was a Lawson. It was outside of Liberty, Missouri. >> So, that one was those other incidents. What were these other incidents like? >> And the other incident was uh I uh exposed myself to a lady in a parking lot and after been drinking again. >> That one that wasn't >> that was Yeah, that was >> for your m that case. >> Yeah, I just exposed myself. >> Why would you do that? >> I don't know. I don't know. >> So, what about the other cases? >> That's the two in Missouri. >> Not just the two that you got arrested for because there's other cases. >> I don't But I mean, so, so here's the thing, though. I know you got arrested. Right. >> Right. And so when we're asking this question, it's not always just what you got caught for. >> Right. >> Right. Because when we contacted them and the report specifically state, you know, this sounds like the same suspect in these other cases, and there's like five. And now those victims chose as many do, not they didn't want to go through the court process and they didn't want have to go testify and stuff like that, but there's reports, >> right? >> Feed you stuff. You're like, "Oh yeah, okay. Now that you you're telling me you know about that, then I'll go ahead and tell you the truth, >> right? >> I mean, I know I know you know >> and that's >> it's embarrassing. >> Dan, there's nothing that you can say that's going to embarrass us." >> Well, it embarrasses me. >> I've been here, right? I say embarrassing, right? I've been doing this 30 years and somewhere around 27 years now doing this. A lot of our career has been spent up here in investigations. Um we we have investigated the worst of the worst crimes that Pensacola has has brought to us. So like he said, you're not going to surprise us with anything. Okay. I understand your point of view that it's embarrassing to say that, you know, I did these things. Um, but unfortunately, you're not in a spot right now where you're going to be hide behind that embarrassment, right? >> Okay. It's it's time for all that stuff to end. It's time to come clean and just be honest, okay? Because that's going to get you through all this, [music] right? >> Okay. It's just honesty. So, when you're talking about you're exposing yourself, right, you were in the parking lot. >> Mhm. >> Um, how did you get the girl to approach you? I just pulled up to where they she was. She was just in her getting her in her car. >> But you're uh what vehicle? >> I was in my truck. >> Okay. So, she's not going to be able to see you. >> No. >> Unless you stand up or something, >> right? When she walked up to the truck. >> Why would she walk up to the truck? >> I can't remember. I asked her something and she came over asked her for some directions or something. She walked up to She >> Right. Very good. >> So, that's basically and I'm going to put it in in law enforcement terms. Okay. I I know this may not jive with how you your point of view on it is from our point of view. What you did is you pulled up, you saw a lady probably pretty >> right and targeted her. >> I'd have been drinking. >> You've been drinking, right? >> That's the only That's the only time I ever did that. >> And then so you you said you asked for direction to lure her over to your truck, right? And then you committed the act of masturbating in front of her. >> Why would you do that? I understand you were drinking. I mean, is it >> I don't know. >> Is it out of frustration? Did you do you think that seeing her reaction or her embarrassment or something like that was something that you were looking for? >> No, I just think it was just for my own gratification. Just I I don't know. Just >> Do you think it helped you sexually? It helped around you that you were going to do this? just expose myself perhaps. >> Yeah. >> So there was a sexual aspect to doing it. It wasn't external. It wasn't like you were trying to hurt her. >> No. >> It was for yourself to help you with >> like an arousal you felt sexually about it. >> I would say that's >> Did you use that story every time or is it or did you use different stories? >> I was department store or something. I'm not I can't really remember if uh if I actually got her attention or not, but I know know there was cameras. I got caught for that. And then uh over in Independence at one time. It was just it was after I had separated from my girlfriend that I moved out there to be with and we just decided just to go our separate ways. So, you seem to have some life triggers that try to stop this behavior. As long as your life's settled, >> you're in a good relationship, you're working, everything's going smooth, you can suppress those urges. >> Well, yeah. I mean, I've been I have have ever since then, I've been suppressed. I mean, it's I mean, it's just been good cuz I mean I wanted to move back home and be, you know, close to the >> So, how many times in Kansas was there times that maybe you pulled up in a parking lot, you were masturbating, but you didn't get the attention of the girl. >> You're like watching a girl >> maybe half a dozen times. I didn't do it very often. Every time I did, I got caught. So >> even if you didn't try to get their attention, >> you're sitting in park watching them. You're kind of using them as a stimulus, >> which is like a basic fantasy, right? >> I mean, that's not that >> really. That's that's especially what we know. That's not that far all around. >> That that's I mean, >> but I do personal, >> right? I do go back to the prostitution arrest thing because not impossible by any means. >> Mhm. But in our experience, hardly anybody gets caught the first time. And it makes sense because it costs you a little bit of money. >> Yeah. >> But a prostitute will let you do whatever, you know, whatever little freaky thing you have going on. Most of them are like, "Hey, you get 10 bucks, 20 bucks." >> And that was that was the first that was the first time. >> The first time you ever tried to pick a prostitute and you got caught up in the police, >> I mean, it happened. I was That's what I'm saying. It It's hard to kind of remember it cuz I just remember driving down the road and all of a sudden there were cops everywhere and I was pulled over and they, you know, just started ransacking my truck. >> There was a girl on a truck with you. >> No. >> Did you just talk to one? >> I think I just talked to one down the street and then I was gone. I was by myself. >> You probably got caught up in the sting where they put out >> a police officer, but she looks like a hooker. And so once you make a statement, she'll tell you like, "Hey, go down around the corner. going home. I was going back to cuz I lived on Cervantes. I think that was about when that was. >> I was just driving cuz I I was over I can't remember the guy's name the house that I was at, but it was down off of Cheat Street and I just came back and I hit G Street, hit Serant. And >> by now, do you have a girlfriend or anybody? You're in a relationship with anybody? How long's it been since you've been in relationship? >> Uh it's been a while. It's probably been about >> since you've been back. >> Yeah. At least. Yeah. Jennifer was my last one. Yeah. My wife. >> You came back in ' 09. That was after your divorce. >> Uh Lee Street. >> Le Street and then 12th of Series. So we established back in 1985, you were there about 12th of Series, >> right? >> So on New Year's Eve going from 1984 to 1985. Remember what you're doing that night? >> Yeah. What would you normally have done on the New Year's Eve during that time frame? >> Um maybe go out to Kevin and Mlier or something like that on the beach or >> like to go out to the beach. >> Is that where you normally hang out at? What bars? I mean you work for Chance, >> right? >> But you you did a culinary. Would you ever go to the bars? >> Not very oft Davis. >> Not downtown. If you went out, you would go to >> use of the beach. That's where I'd be. >> When you stayed in town, where would you go? >> When I stay in town? >> Yeah. If you didn't go to the beach, was there a bar place on town you like to go to? >> Um, >> ever go to Chance? >> Um, what's that? >> Chance? >> Chance? >> Yeah. You ever go to there before? I say you work for him. Did you? That was at the Yeah, that was over on um at the uh the University Mall. >> Mhm. >> And um >> I was asking would you go there? >> Yeah. >> Well, we got to work. Yeah, we we go by and have a have an after work. >> There's Chans there. >> Chans and um and then um trying to think what that just was >> up there by University Mall. >> No. Are you talking about Odyssey or 2001 or >> 2001 that's what it was like on Fairfield >> that was country town of country class about it and usually I was out at the beach or >> there's there's like three bars around >> bar restaurant there was the was it there was the hotel and Daryl's >> can't there's one >> but they were all kind of on the back side of university mall back then there was three there >> you remember a third one back there? >> You remember Daryl's and Chance? >> I don't remember Daryl's. >> You don't remember Daryl's at the very back. >> Remember Benigan's? >> Benigans is the other place that's back there. Oh my god. And I'm talking now. It's like >> University Mall. That's all I >> think was Coconut. >> I was like Daryl's Benigans. Coconuts. >> I moved here [clears throat] 88. So I graduated 86. I was 88 when I moved here. And that's where we go. Benigans or or Daryls or Chans. So, what would you normally do like on a New Year's Eve night? What would you picture yourself back then doing as a a thing? >> Hanging out with friends, going to somebody's house, going out group of people. Yeah. I was never laugh. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, was any talking about, you know, old times and stuff that jog your memory about Elenrest? A house on Elenest? >> No. Unless I rented a place. I'm just trying to think. I don't know. Well, I don't know where Elm Press is because I stayed with John Vender Gast and his sister, but that was over on um by our parents house. >> May I stay with them? No. Yeah. Well, John and I were friends. And uh >> when you would go out around >> New Year's Eve because you're a young guy, >> would you be out like looking for for anybody like company or woman or anything like that? >> No. Usually [clears throat] I was with a group of friends >> or whatever. >> Ever get lucky? >> I get lucky. Oh man. Yeah. Back in those days you could Yeah. >> Yeah. But that's usually how I like ch you know that um I don't know what what I don't have any idea what you're talking about. >> All right, let's cut the chase. So that young lady I showed you a picture of >> right >> New Year's Eve 1984 going 1985 January 1st early morning 1985. Okay. >> Is found dead on the side of a road. And I have the evidence that you're the one that's there. >> Oh, >> I have irrefutable evidence that you're there. >> I am not doing all this on a guest. >> I don't I don't know. >> On a hutch. Dan. >> Yeah. >> Telling you you're there. >> I wasn't there. >> You watch TV some? >> Yeah. >> Watch any kind of crime shows or just news stories about crime or stuff like that? Cool case files, anything like that? >> No. >> You know DNA? >> Yeah. >> DNA is actually just as positive but more not more positive fingerprints. Right. >> So I can prove to literally one in 700 billion chances you were there. >> That's where we're at then. I'm not asking you. >> Right. >> Okay. We We're not asking you if you're there. Honestly, >> I don't I mean I It doesn't >> 35 years. It's been 35 years. This is the first time you've probably talked to the police about this. I'm sure of that. >> Yeah. >> Right. Have you noticed anything unusual for the last couple weeks? >> No. >> Nobody around you looked unusual. Seen a bunch of police cars for no reason? Nothing like that. >> Felt like somebody was following you? >> No. >> What would happen? >> The thing is is that your DNA is at this site right on this person. It is it is nobody else's except yours. There there's there's no other explanation, right? It can't be a possibility somebody else's DNA. Your DNA is at this scene. Dan, I get this is this is your life. This is probably freaking you out a little bit. I just Right. But but listen to me. There's there's a story here, right? And either you can choose to give that story about what happened, the chain of events that led to what ultimately happened as to why we're here, and you have a part to play in that. If you don't, it starts to look pretty bad as to why you're not explaining it. >> I don't understand. I mean, I would never I have never hurt anybody in my life. That's what's I mean it I I've had one night stands and stuff before, but it's it's like >> Have you had a one night stand with her before? >> No, I don't know her. I'm telling you, I do not cannot recognize her. I don't know the name. >> It's like you went back to to school days. I >> The only reason you're not telling us that you know who she is is because you're afraid that somehow we'll find out that you're responsible for her. >> There does not work. I can prove you were there. The the question, the unknown is how it happened. What precipitated it? What were all the dynamics going on that led to that end result? >> I I can't answer that. You not being there is not an acceptable answer because the evidence, the DNA proves you were there without a doubt. >> This this is going to make your world spin, right? >> I just it it just blows me away that I mean I don't >> I don't understand. I'm I'm really confused. Well, Well, >> I'm a little bit confused, too. Um, >> no, I mean, I don't know her >> and I mean I I've never heard anybody. >> I can believe you don't know her. Maybe you didn't know her beforehand. >> But I don't understand why unless >> you knew her that night. >> You knew her very well. I don't I don't know. That's what I'm saying. I don't I don't >> I'll paint a little bit of this picture for you here. Okay. >> I mean, I've been >> So, I've asked you about Elmrest, >> right? >> Right. >> Okay. >> And so, you're like, I I don't I don't know why >> the address is on >> I don't know why I said Elmrest. I don't I have no idea. I've got this totally there's a blank hole here, but I don't understand why in 1985 I would have told the police that I lived on Elmrest. I have no idea. That's what you're going to say. The problem is Elmrest is like a half a mile away from where this happened. I don't consider that a coincidence. So now you don't remember living half a mile away or giving an address a half a mile away from where this happened. >> And now even though I am telling you just like I told you you you told the police down there you you lived on Elmrest. And now I'm telling you the DNA proves that you were there and you're says I I don't remember. I I don't know. And that's really not going to work for you because this the scene, the evidence we have at the scene paints a very ugly picture. This was not gentle. This is not an accident. and and if you're going to let the evidence tell a story, it paints a very ugly picture. Your opportunity is to soften that because we understand there are other but I cannot be any more honest with you that you were there. I just don't understand. >> Do you [music] do you not believe me when I tell you that? >> I want to know how we know you were there. I told you we're following you because we need DNA, right? So, we have DNA from the scene week and a half, two weeks ago now on your way into work. You threw a cigarette butt out the window. There's a way you actually you're on your way up to a shop I believe on Palifox and you're driving from the shop up Pace and there may have been a police car behind you and then all a sudden that police car stops and blocks all traffic right behind you. Remember seeing that? >> Mhm. >> Do you know what you did just before that? You threw your cigarette butt out the window and I was in that police car. There's two affiliate agents right behind you. >> And we picked up that cigarette butt and we submitted and came back as a match. So, we [music] know that you were at the scene. That's That's not a debatable fact. >> I'm just >> Yeah, you're blown away. >> No, it's just I don't I know someone I had sex with or or what, but I just I I don't I have never heard anybody. That's what I'm saying. This just has blown me away. >> There's There's a couple different ways to look at it. And and the thing is this, this is why your input in this is critical, right? There's a way to look at this coupled with certain facts about your history. All right? And just follow me on this. >> There's going to be people that can conclude certain things about what happened if your input isn't shared. That's why we want your input. It's not difficult to come to a conclusion based upon what happened in Brownsville with the prostitution thing with what happened in St. Louis, specifically in St. Louis, >> Kansas City. >> Do you see? Do you understand what I'm laying out? How people can come to that conclusion >> like because you've already lured women >> for sexual gratification without knowing them. Strange women, >> right? >> For your gratification. And yet in this case this one gets taken. Now the circumstances of that you would have input with. >> Yeah. But I didn't take anybody. >> So on New Year's Eve 1984 to 1985. >> I don't. >> Explain to me then. Dan, explain to me how your DNA ends up with this girl. >> I have Unless Unless it was I had sex with her or something. I don't know a one night stand or something like that but but after that I don't you know have any rec recollection of anything not have I mean you lived in the area during this time right? I guess I did. I don't know. >> 1995. I mean, you were here, right? >> This was a pretty big deal back then. >> Heard a lot. It's on the news. >> I don't remember it. >> So, how >> I mean, I just I'm I'm just >> How can your DNA end up with her? >> Unless we had sex. That's the only reason I don't know. >> I'm not asking unless I'm not asking you to theorize. I'm asking you to tell me because you were there. How did your DNA end up with her? I was with her, I guess. >> I don't I was with her, >> I guess. And I don't I'm not trying to >> I don't remember her. I don't remember the name. The face means I don't remember her. >> Yeah. >> If you're in and out partying or something like that. I mean, it happened pretty regularly. So would you think like we talked about earlier that there's after 35 years there's lots of things that are kind of vague in memories except for those specific life events like in 1986 right 1985 excuse when the space shuttle blew up. I know exactly where I was standing when I heard it because that's a significant event in my life. Right? So, you got significant events in your life that you remember exactly where you were, >> right? >> What you were doing when they happened. >> Don't you think that if you had sex with a girl, you were out partying New Year's Eve, you met a girl, you picked her up, you're in the car, right? You had sex with her, and then the next morning on the news, you find out she's dead. Do you remember that? >> I would. Yeah. Yeah, I remember it. >> So that's the most >> I mean I don't know. It's like I don't know. >> That's the most innocent scenario I can give you, >> right? >> I don't I don't know. But it it very well could have happened. You know, it could have been whether had sex or something, but I was with several friends. We we would go out and stuff like that, you know. I mean, there'd be a group of us, >> but I mean, sometimes we get I mean, I can remember being at the beach and stuff and you just go in the parking lot and you'd have sex and then you go back in the bar and 2 or 3 hours later you'd go home or something, you know? >> Universal parking lot. A lot of people used to use that parking lot because it was a huge parking lot, lots of dark corners, >> right? >> You never use that place to have sex? No. Never had sex there. >> Not in the parking lot. No, >> I have to beat you. What? Uh, well, not actually in the parking lot, but on the beach. >> On the beach. >> Yeah. >> And picking up from around University of M. >> No. >> The Beach Hands or [music] and the other bars up there benance? >> Not that I can I can remember. >> I mean, seriously. I mean, I I don't I'm being totally honest with you. >> Yeah. Because you've always said back then you weren't doing the heavy heavy, you know, stupid drinking. >> No. >> Right. So that would that would not be affecting your memory. I remember what happened. You have a great memory. You said, >> right. >> Right. >> So you're not being honest because I have I can't believe that you had a night where you had sex with a girl who ended up dead and you don't remember it. I don't remember anybody being I don't even remember this the story about her that you told me. >> I'm telling you, you have to remember because you were there. Your DNA is there. There is no saying you weren't there. >> I've seen a bunch of >> So you were not only with her, but you were there too. I want to help you get through this Dan because there's there's there's no avoiding it anymore. 35 years it is here in front of you now, >> right? >> You gave it before you this day for 35 years. You have two options. Either you've been a straight to this day coming for 35 years. You're wondering when you're going to get that knock at your door. when all is caught up to you or you really don't care. >> And I don't I don't get that. You're not a caring person. >> I'm a very caring person. >> Back in 85, the things that you left there that belong to you, people weren't thinking of in the future they're going to be able to catch me because of this. Well, it happened, right? And people have known about it now for 25 years. DNA has caught hundreds and hundreds, thousands of people, and it's caught up to them just like it just caught up to you. These are facts that we're dealing with. You were not here accidentally. You have a choice as to how this impacts [music] you, right? You can share your story about the sequence of events that led to the ultimate end of this. If you don't choose to do that and you don't paint that picture, [music] you're leaving other people to do that for you. It's not flattering. somebody who may not be an angel, right? Who may have some involvement in the outcome of their demise, right? They can't say what happened, but [snorts] all they're going to see is this single mother of an 18-month-old son that was murdered, and they're going to see that you're responsible for it. Okay? how that happened and the chain events that led to that. You know the answers >> and >> no it doesn't look great. It's >> but you're trying to soften it and I understand that and we recognize that because we've done this for a very long time but this is not the time to do that. You know telling your wife while while you were late, you know that might be you out drinking with your buddies or something. That's the time to try to soften it up. Well, you know this and that. This is not the time to do that because those details are still very bright in your mind because this is one of those defining moments in your life. >> The guy that the circumstances happened to him, this guy over here, at some point he's got to stop lying. The monster keeps lying. >> He's going to throw [ __ ] out there. >> And you're going to try and throw [ __ ] I get that. That happens all the time. It has to stop. I don't care if you've told us something that's not true. It doesn't reflect on what we're doing. As long as we get to what actually happened, right? We've been through this hundreds of times with people. You've only been through this one time, right? You're at a disadvantage as far as that goes. We [music] know what you're doing and how you're thinking. We've seen it thousands of times, right? You have some ability to craft your outcome, but you've got to be honest about what took place, right? You want people to understand what happened if it's not if you're not that monster. You've got to explain your part in this. The thing is, like I've told you, we ask questions we know answers to. We have evidence. Not only your DNA, we have other evidence. Right? So, when you tell your story and we can counter it with evidence, it shows that you're not being honest, which reflects badly on you. >> Yeah. Don't worry, we're going to call you out on it. So, the best thing to do is just start at the beginning. Tell the truth exactly what happened. Every time you think, you say, "I guess I think it makes me it tells me that you're not being totally honest about that moment of the story." But there there's no escape now except for the truth, right? She I just I think I hit her in the head and and knocked her out and it it was a dramatic blow and it killed her. What happened that made it out of control? I don't know. I think we just got kind of an argument over something. I can't remember what it was. >> Was it about having sex? >> No. No. She was willing to >> but then Ralph and those guys they stopped by provolved and they they left and uh >> were you having sex with her before? Yeah. >> And she tried to withdraw it and that's what led to it. Did so like in the middle of it did she want to stop? No, we had we had [music] consensual sex and stuff and then I just didn't >> What happened to make things get out of hand though? >> I just wasn't something she said. >> I don't know. >> I mean, can we be real here? Did she like comment on your sexual performance or something? >> No, it wasn't. It was just it was Yeah, it was but it was >> Did you want to leave and you didn't want to leave yet? >> Something like that. I I don't I don't remember. >> And here we go again. We're trying to We're trying to get there. I >> I can't remember. I just know. >> But you're the one that was there. >> Say something simple. You said you hit her in the head. >> What' you hit in the head with? >> I think it was a cutting board. >> A cutting board? >> Yeah. Like a wooden lock. >> Wooden lock. Cutting board. >> Yeah. at your house. >> The one on Elcrest? I >> guess. Yeah. >> So, you were just staying up there with pentagrams and that's where this happened at. >> Was anyone else there? >> They I mean earlier there were guys there, but then >> it was later on in the evening, stuff like that. >> So, Bobby and Ralph came over there while you were there with her. >> Had you already had sex with her then? >> Yeah, once. >> Once. And then yeah, we're >> so then they came over, they hung out for a little bit with y'all, have some drinks. >> And then they left, >> right? >> And then we got kind of into a little bit of an argument or whatever and from drinking and stuff and it just kind of got out of hand. >> So thinking cutting board, you're in the kitchen arguing. I was standing in the kitchen and she was in the kitchen. Right. >> Right. >> Oh, yeah. >> And you said once. So, there was a second time. Was it after you hit her? >> Uh, yes, it was. >> So, you hit her. >> You said it was a fatal blow. She was unconscious at least, >> right? So then you had sex with her a second time while she was >> Well, not really sex, but I mean I didn't had sex. Then it was like I always couldn't believe what had happened and I couldn't get her to respond. >> So you stop. >> So what you do then? >> I think I just took her down the road. >> You think? >> I took her down the road. >> In what? >> In my in my vehicle and Which vehicle? >> I don't know what I was driving in. I think it was my fort. I think it was my truck. >> The same 150 that you got the ticket in South Florida. >> I don't know if I had that truck down there. That was a company truck. >> Okay. So, you think you had a pickup truck? >> Yeah. >> Where'd you put it? Uh, >> just on the side of the road. >> I mean, in the truck bed, >> passenger seat. Did she wake up? No. One day. >> I checked her bolts and all that stuff and I was just freaked out. >> Before or after you you left your body? >> Before. >> How did you eventually kill her? >> I think it's [music] strangulation and I don't know. We just get into it. We got a big fight. Okay. Where did you Where was she at when you strangled her? Was it on the place where you brought her to or was it at the house at the house? >> What you used? >> Now, you said that you had sex with her a second time after she was hurt. >> No, I didn't. >> I'm just trying to piece together the reason. >> We were We were going to have sex again. And we just we didn't and we kind of got into it a little bit. >> So it was over one and a half. >> She slapped me and I just and so I was just I don't know. I was just pissed and I hit her with it. >> There's indications that that the sex would happen after she's unconscious too. So did you have sex with her after you hit her? >> Uh you said yes. >> Yeah. Right. >> I guess. Yeah. >> So she wasn't a willing participant in that. But that's what the argument was about that led to that >> second time. But then you realized she really was unconscious, right? >> And it's like, oh my god. >> So you kind of lost interest at that point, >> which was kind of normal. >> Yeah. >> So I mean, it kind of made me think that maybe the argument was that you wanted sex again. She didn't [music] want to. >> That led to the argument that led to her slapping you. That led to you hitting her in the head and then you had sex with her again. Did the strangulation occur after that sex or before? before. >> Yeah. So, hit her in the head, she goes out, >> you strang, right? And then you have sex with her again, at least partially. >> You You try. >> You're trying to have sex again. You realize, oh [ __ ] >> she's really hurt. >> Yeah. I don't know. I have no idea. It was It was >> It could have been It could have been alcohol. Could have been cocaine, too. Those are cocaine. Those were cocaine days back in, you know. Yeah. for about a for about a year off and on and it was about that period a year maybe a couple years the guy that I rented the house from over on Cervantes at 12 he's and Susie Lisa that I lived with the one that got me and turned me on to it when I first started doing it I knew it was bad when I when I did it was just bad stuff and it alters your sex drive and everything, I guess. And it's like aggressive. >> Well, I was this is I was never aggressive about it. It's just one night and I just don't I I just don't understand it. >> I can believe you, right? >> It's the [music] truth. That is 100% truth. I I can believe that you are not normally an aggressive violent guy, >> but that's why I'm asking what happened that night that said it all. >> I couldn't I don't >> I'm trying to think of what she could have said or done except slap you. >> Yeah. >> That invoked that response from you. >> And then for you to do the things that you did afterwards. >> Well, yeah. I tried aggressively, you know, I I hit her and not just >> wanting to hurt her or anything, but but I hit her and I realized I I really I had hurt her bad. I knew she was it was she was trying to be over with and I realized, what have I done? >> Was it a particular type of sex that you wanted to have? She was >> It was It was straight sex. It was just that and cocaine and drinking. In the autopsy, they found indications of anal sex on top of vaginal sex. So, was it possible that >> I don't recall that? I don't. >> That's not something you would be into or No. >> So, what we're saying is you had sex with her was consensual. >> Afterwards, there's a fight. >> And so, I mean, was there a fight fight? Was there a struggle? And then at the end of it, she's got several injuries that don't indicate it's like a quick I'm arguing, I slap you, I get hit. We'll work on this some more. We're really good at memory recall stuff. So, at this moment, what do you remember for sure? >> I just remember having sex with her, doing a little more partying, and getting get to it a little bit. She was ready to go. And and uh I was going to give her a ride back over to Avalon or wherever she was from where she lived and she uh she wasn't responding quick enough or whatever. I remember but I remember she hit me and and it just I just retaliated. I was had that cutting board up in my hand and I just hit her on top of the head. And she went down on the ground. Yeah. Then you did trad You're not really sure how. >> No, I can't remember. I just was with my hands or something. I don't remember. >> And then is that when you brought her back into the bedroom or was she already there when you strangled her? >> Yeah, that's where I dragged her back in there. >> Then you tried to have sex with her again. So I strangled her realized I just wanted to wanted to be over your truck. Drove her around. >> Did she drop anything else out there with her? >> That's not going to remember. >> Is this where I might be able to fill in some blanks with you? But >> I don't listen. So I I don't want to put any words in your mouth. >> Okay. Okay. I'm going tell you some things that are known. >> Okay. >> All right. And and then see if that jogs your memory. >> Okay. So, next to her body there's a towel. >> Okay. >> Do you remember that? >> No. >> It's a bath towel. It's got her blood on it and it's got DNA from you on it. >> I don't I don't remember. They come from that house to being dropped out there with her. >> After you've hit her in the head and you're strangling her, you're going to have blood on me, right? >> Do you ever clean it up? >> I'm sure I wash my wash off. I don't know. >> So, I'm seeing is so you have this brief moment of rage, >> right? >> Right. >> Right. the drink in the dose of Coke. Um, you're not quite ready to go. You're having a haunting. She's getting mad at you. She slaps you. That kind of sets you off. Crack her in the head with a board. And then you realize it's something serious. So, you strangle her because you want it to be over with. And then because you're still in that rage mode, right, you start having sex with her again. But somewhere in there, you come back to reality, >> right? Instantly. Yeah. It was like, what? This is >> So, you start having sex with her, you come back to reality like, "Oh, what have I done?" Do you try to give her any aid then? >> Yeah. I I when I first when I hit her, I did it just it just knocked her right out and she just was not responsive at all. And I checked her for breathing and this and that and she just hit her hard. >> So then you strangled strangled her. >> So you had to know at some point after you hit [music] her with it that she's still alive. What happened to tell you that she was still alive? Did she come to >> She just No, she just >> Did she make noises? >> She just ced guard. >> But you knew it was bad, right? Yeah. >> Once you strangle her just to to go ahead and end it >> out of your in your rage. We're still talking this whole probably several minutes of you're basically out of your mind with rage, >> right? >> So you go from you hit her in the hair. Did he have any pets? Yeah, he had a yellow labor. >> Remember what color? >> Blonde. A golden lab. >> Golden lab. That's the only thing you had. >> Might have black lab, too. >> The black lab, too. >> Have you talked to any of these guys as you've come back? >> I haven't talked to them for 30 years. >> And none of these guys ever came back to you after this happened? the news like, "Hey, you were with that kid the other night." >> So only people that seen you with her that night are Bobby Hicks and Ralph James. >> Who else was that? >> If they even remembered >> if they would even remember. >> But they were there, >> right? So just just say they've got great memories. >> Yeah. >> They wouldn't they're the only other ones that know you were even with her that night. How about at the bar? You said there's a group of people >> with just people that I didn't know because there were so many people there. It was just packed. >> But I mean with you? >> Yeah. I was I went there alone. I went there alone and they were there. >> Bobby and Ralph were already there. >> Yeah. Several other people. >> And there's a bunch of other people. So you went there alone. You didn't know they were there. This >> wasn't there long. I wasn't even there long. >> Start talking to her. >> Yeah. >> She needs a ride. You go back to Pentagram's house where you're staying. >> Was she expecting you to bring her back to Pentagrass's house? >> She want to ride home to Avalon or whatever. >> What did she say when you took her to your >> She wanted to go to the house. >> She wanted to go by the house and a little bit then. >> Did you do any coke at the house? >> I think so. Yeah, I did. >> Did she bring it or did you have it? Was she excited about using cocaine? >> Does she use it with you? >> I think she did. Yeah. Sure. >> Did she? >> Well, no. No, she didn't. >> Does she drink very much? >> I don't think so. Not too terribly much. >> She drank a little bit. Any weed? >> I don't think it's peanut. >> Okay. So, you did some coke that you had. She drank a little bit. Y'all had consensual sex. Keep hanging out. Two guys come over. I'll come over for a little bit. How long do you think this take? >> No longer. Half an hour, 45 minutes. >> I believe she wants to go back home. >> Yeah. And then I left. It was early in the morning. I believe it was >> Where'd you go afterwards? You dropped right by the office. [music] >> Came back to Pentecost. Do you know which way you were going? Did you get up on like somewhere stuff was thrown out in a couple different places? >> I don't know. I don't remember where I went when I left. I just ended up coming back there. >> So, the towel kind of bothers me because I can see where you would have cleaned up your hands because you probably would have blood on them, right? You obviously cleaned up yourself because your semen's on the towel, right? But then when you take her and put her in trouble, why take the towel? >> I don't know. I don't know. I wasn't thinking what happened to me. I wasn't thinking. >> I wasn't It was >> When you hurt her when you hit her in the head, did you put anything over her head to keep her from bleeding? Cuz you're moving her into your room. No. >> Is your Was your mattress comfortable? >> She was standing right there. She was standing [music] by by the couch or something and and I just hit her. She just struck her and she fell down on the floor and I I took her into the bedroom and I didn't even think about I don't think I put anything over trying to help her or anything. >> Well, I mean you checked for pulse checked her breathing that was bad. So you realized it was that bad and you went ahead and finished her. um put it in your truck. Would you maybe take the towel to keep the blood from getting in your truck? >> I don't know. Okay. I don't >> I don't I took it. >> And if you're home, don't remember. >> I'm okay with that. >> I I promise you I don't remember. >> But it sounds like uh I think that's the only part now that kind of bothers me. >> Obviously, the towel came from there. It's got you on their DNA. It's got her blood on it. You're coming from the house. So, it also came from there. So, why did it leave the house and and then you drop it off with her? >> I don't know. That's stupid. Not I don't know. >> I mean, it's stupid if you're trying not to get caught, you know? But most time, even in those panic moments, people are doing things for a reason. And so, I'm trying to fit that into the story. What's the reason for I can't I can't. So when you dropped her off the side of the road, how'd you do that? >> I just pulled off to the side of the road and got out and >> kind of heard two different things. Um, and we went over a couple times. That's why we want to make sure we're clear on it. >> And if our understanding is wrong, correct us, >> right? >> That's all we're about. We want to get this right. >> Right. >> Okay. Um, whatever the truth is, that's where we want to be. >> But I I struck her and hit her with the cutting board. struck her and then Yeah. And then >> did you >> did you have sex with her after [clears throat] you struck her? >> Started. >> Okay. And then strangle her or was it strangled then had sex with her? >> It was after strangulation. >> So you didn't have after you hit her. It wasn't hit then. >> I knew that she was hurt and I just I I knew that it was it was it was bad. So I strangled her. >> Okay. Where were you at in relation to her when you were strangling her? Were you in front of her, behind her? >> I think I was on top of her. I think she was in front of me. I I really I know it sounds like I should remember, but I don't I can't I mean I know we were on the floor. I think I was probably on top of her. >> Were you clothed? >> Uh I think so. Or partially clothe. I I don't know. So that's why we're thinking two different things because I think you said it two different ways >> and that's why we want to make sure >> something I've tried not to remember. So I have done a good job not remembering it. Yeah. >> So if you hit her, you want to have sex, you're having an argument, >> right? >> You know, but she wants to leave. Then you get mad, she slaps you, mad, you hit her in the head, >> right? >> She goes down. >> So that's what we're trying to figure out. If at that point you're like, >> this is when we're going to now I'll knock you out. So we're going to start having sex. >> Yeah. >> Right. And then you realized during that >> it was that was worse. >> Yeah. It was I didn't realize it. >> So then you went ahead and finished her off by strangling her >> and that was it. I >> was done. That was Yeah. >> Or would be the think it forward like you you kind of just said it was you hit her then you strangle her and then you tried to have sex with her >> basically after she was dead. >> Yeah. >> So we're we're thought but I couldn't do it. I mean >> Well, I mean you tried but you did. >> Yeah. I think I think >> but when that happened >> I hit her in the head and I choked her. >> So where the Publix is >> Yeah. It's on the other side of three houses that were there's one on the corner. >> Bigger houses or >> it was it was just it was cut into like three apartments. >> Three apartments that the same same house. Was your other case one we were talking about earlier? >> Was that on 12? No, no, no, no. Don't cover that. >> I haven't been too close now. >> But I have been to the house. I didn't know which way he's talking about. >> So Susie and you break up 84ish and then you're still there for a little bit until the lease runs out >> or did you just move out right away? >> Yeah, I just moved out. >> Okay. Want to stay with John? He said John had a girlfriend at the time. >> I don't remember having a girlfriend >> or a sister. Was he living there with a sister? This that was over on a by heart off of >> Okay. So he was up here on Elmrest by himself. It's his house. >> Yeah. That was a brand. >> He he was a rental. You and you just stayed with him. >> He was at home that night at all. Not up like in his room asleep. >> There's two bedrooms. He had one. You had one. >> How long after this incident did you stay there? Maybe a month or two. I can't seem like very long. >> I mean, they're going to be a mess. >> Yeah. >> I mean, the head boot plates, there was a mess. >> Did you have a hard time cleaning it up or >> does it leave anything? I mean, is there anything He came back like, "What? What is this?" >> No. >> Never mentioned it. >> How did you resolve the mess though? >> Yes. I just cleaned it up with towels or whatever. Just wiped up what I saw. >> I think it's pretty much one one area. >> Where was that? >> Just right there in deliver by the by the door. Delivered and everything would be >> If you took her back if you took her back to your bedroom, >> right? >> She's still bleeding back there, right? So now we're talking maybe that floor the bed. Did you put her on the bed? Yeah. Now >> you just try to have sex with her on the floor. Is this carpeted? >> I believe so. Yes. >> So, there's going to be blood, you would think, on the carpet, but it didn't leave a stain. You were able to clean all that up. >> I don't know if I got it cleaned up or not. I I I tried to clean it. >> When you said it was when you hit her in the head, where was she? She was in the kitchen. >> It was in between the Yeah, the kitchen and the and the living room. >> The kitchen countertop. Any idea if you remember how you hit her? I know you said about the cutting board. >> Yeah. So the top of her head. >> So you hit with the wide part of it, not the end of it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Was she headed for the door? >> No, she was just she was just standing. She was just right there. >> Was she facing away from you or facing? >> She turned around. That's >> We had a little confrontation. She turned around. She hit me and I just I snapped. >> So she turned around and you hit her and I just I love that I hit her so hard. >> She went straight down. >> Yeah. >> When she hit you, what was it the catalyst that made her hit you? Did you grab her or say something or like what took place and let her strike you? Um, just the fact that, you know, we're >> I get that you wanted to go, >> you know, serious. You strangled her and you know, but you don't know she's dead yet, >> right? >> Until in in the process of having sex with her, you realize she she could be dead. >> Did you check her again then? >> Yeah. >> And you didn't with your knowledge at that time she was dead, right? after you strangled her is when she died. So like you've been strangling her, she's now dead. >> Okay. There's one thing that still doesn't completely match up that I need to get clarified. Um when someone dies, right? So obviously when this when she was found, she had an autopsy. We bring her to the medical examiner and we examine her body and we document all the injuries, right? Some of her injuries occurred after she died. Whether it be from from when you moved her or left her, some of those injuries occurred before she died. Like the head injury was before she died, right? >> The neck injury begins before she's died. >> And we can tell that it's like everything freezes. The way it bleeds is [music] different. Okay. um the way someone bleeds after their after their death when a heart's pumping [music] versus blood pulling an area because of broken vessels. Like a doctor could tell the difference with her. Also, she's got injuries that were before her death that were on her legs. Um specifically around where you probably would have been taking off her panty hose. So, it looks as though there are signs of a struggle like nail marks are going down her legs from pulling down the panty hose. Those happen before she just died. Okay? So that means someone's trying to pull her panty hose down forcibly before she's dead, which is before she was strangled. Does that make sense? Okay. And those injuries are different from the ones that happened after she died cuz she has those as well. Can you explain that? Cuz that would seem to indicate that you're trying to have sex with her before you actually strangled her against her will. >> Um, yeah. Force. Yeah, we had Yeah, that sounds right. Cuz I mean I hit her. Yeah, I hit her and then you know we went I wanted to have sex with her again. So I was trying to get her clothes off. >> Still fighting? >> Yeah. But I >> mean she may not be fighting a lot cuz she's hurt. >> Yeah. But I can tell you that the head injury wasn't enough to have >> to have killed her. Right. Okay. So with head injuries, they bleed a lot. They hurt. But so when someone goes like completely unconscious, what we expect to find is some sort of minor or major brain injury, right? The head in the head, that impact causes trauma to the brain. And some that's called a concussion. So we knock somebody off, they're probably going to have a concussion, right? we've hit that switch that caused that trauma. We see external trauma, but it doesn't transfer into her brain, right? So, it's very possible that she's into some degree of consciousness before she's strangled. But I know that those leg injuries when you're pulling out her panty hose, I know she's alive then. >> That makes sense that she was still strangling at some to some degree because if you're just pulling them off, she's not going to have those injuries on her that scrape. There's a large bruise on the inside of her forearm. Could have been during the struggle while you're trying to have sex with her that you >> might have been grabbed her or something or squeem or something and it's weird because it's got a straight line. I mean, >> did you close it into something or >> she's still wearing her dress during that, right? Because she got dressed again, right? >> You hit her in the head. Now you're trying to you you pulled up her dress. You're you're pulling down her panty hose trying to have sex with her. She's fighting as best she could with the head injury. Um so it could be that you were holding down an arm >> very well. Could be I don't dress as your dress sleeve. >> Did you use like her dress sleep as a handle or tighten it down or anything? >> She can't do anything that would have caused all that to her arm. No. Okay. So, one other thing that complicates us a little bit. All right. Remember he mentioned earlier a phone call, >> right? >> So, there was another young lady that was killed two months after >> three months after Tanya. Her body was left similarly on on the road on the west side of Pesco. Not too far from where you live right now. >> Mhm. No, I don't know anything about that. From Cernney Road to where I'm at now. >> It's not on Cernney, but it's not too far away from there. And And you didn't live over there at the time. >> No. >> But it's just coincidental that now you do live over that area. >> And it pairs your ability to explain that one if in fact that was you. >> I understand. >> I don't know the answer to that question yet, >> but that's going to come out here in the next couple of days. >> Okay. So, if you were involved in that, the worst thing I want to have happen is for you to say no to that one and it was you and then you're explaining this one and we understand the triggers because it kind of throws out some of our story as far as you not being that monster, right? I accept the humans heir. Sometimes they air in the same way. >> So, I just need you to understand that if if you are involved in anything else, it's not just going to be limited to that case. You're known though, >> right? >> Right. >> We I mean part of our job is now not only we talking going through our own cases, going through the sheriff's department cases, we're going to Missouri. >> Mhm. >> Right. We'll be contacting every areas that you lived. >> Mhm. >> There um >> nothing is clean. There's nothing there besides what I told you. It might just exposure >> and you're going to some national database now. >> Okay. >> Okay. so that you're being able to compare to unknowns from every case that's in that system. And and if there's going to be something else that pops up, your best bet to get ahead of the game now >> and start controlling that narrative now >> and and start narrowing that focus and and and saving some people some time this broad service they can they can focus down to where we need to go. >> Right. >> So if there's anything else Missouri or any other places you've lived or passed through, there's not So, a couple things are going to happen, right? Yeah. Unless you got something else, Sergeant or not? >> No. Okay. Um, so we also have a search warrant um for what's called a buckle swab. So, a crime scene supervisor would come in here. It's just Q-tips in your mouth, right? We have your DNA off a cigarette. This is a procedural [music] thing to get the the clean sample um on that. So, we have a search warrant signed by a judge that we'll read to you here in a minute. Um, [music] that authorizes us to take that DNA from your cheeks and then she's going to do roll your fingerprints. Okay? >> And she's going to get a major case, which means she's going to do all the fingerprints and all hands. That's also in the search warrant that we're allowed to collect that from you. It'll also be collected later on at the at the jail. After she's done with that, um, we'll we'll be taking you to Cameron County Jail where you'll be booked. Okay. Uh, your truck. We brought it here. Who would you like to give that to? >> Uh, my sister. >> Nan. >> Yes. >> She's here now. >> She's in Pensacola. Yeah. >> Does she live down the road from you? >> Yeah. She's got a house there and she's in Annapolis. I'd like for her to take that home to my house. >> Okay. >> What's the phone number for her? >> I'd have to look at my phone. >> I'm going to go back once you get booked. >> Once you get to the jail and once you get booked, there's when they allow you a phone call. I don't I have to remember the unless I have my cell phone. I don't know. I don't remember. >> Do you want us to get some phone numbers out for you? We can find it on a piece of paper because they're going to take your phone from me there. >> Yeah. Like to call. >> How you going to explain that to him? >> I don't know. >> Which everything I've told you tonight is true. Yeah. >> I I think having as much as a story as you can remember allows your son to process and deal with it. >> You know, he can't do that if you're you're lying and saying he don't know anything and we've got all this evidence showing it's you and he's going to look at it. He's a smart kid, I'm sure. Very smart. >> So, he's going to look and say, "Well, God, you did do it, but you're looking at me in the face and telling me you don't know anything." So, I think this >> What's your PIN number? >> Uh, what is it? >> Let's just have an applicant number. >> She would like to call her. My sister's name. Let me call her and just tell her what's what's going on with >> um >> it's just I mean she's good girl. She she calls me all the time every day she want >> that's fine. >> Just make sure you write write down her numbers too for yourself. >> I will call I'll have to be in touch with her >> cuz she'll call she can call. >> I will have to make arrangements for >> the truck. saw it on the phone 41 69 >> 3. >> Yeah. >> 8462. >> 8462. >> Is that phone number for her go to the 432? >> It's not there anymore. >> So just the the cell phone number. >> Yes, sir. >> You tell her that somebody from Police Department will be calling her to make arrangements for you. Okay, good truck. >> Thank you. Hey, Nan. Um, I need you to listen to me about this. I'm I did something 35 years ago. I'm down at the Pensacola Police Department and um I was I committed homicide and um I'm getting ready to go down to the county and and get booked in there, but they're going to contact you and you just come, you know, come in my truck down here and and my I guess my personal belongings. Just is she going to get my wallet and all that? if you wanted to have your wallet. >> I wanted her to have that and my cell phone and everything. I'll just leave leave it on. >> I'll just hand it with your >> in front of the the two detectives. They've been they they've been they got my DNA and they've just they've been they've been following me for a while, for a couple months, I guess. And I'm sorry to hear this happen, but but it's it's it's I've already told them. They know. I mean, it's it's it's something that happened a long time ago, 35 years ago. And it's I mean, it's I'm I'm accepting responsibility for it. I mean, it's it's it's only it's only fair. I should have come clean about this long time ago. But I need I need you. You have Morgan's phone number? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. Well, I'm so sorry because I mean just >> you just Thank you. Yes, sir. do that because I really appreciate you. >> I don't deserve it. >> I don't deserve it. I appreciate I >> think a lot of people would argue that, but you don't deserve it. But like we told you for the beginning that we don't judge. We're not judging. >> You're human and me. You're >> I feel like him. It's just finally got everything. >> You need anything? >> Okay. Will you give um >> Dan, here's my card. >> Yes, sir. >> If you decide that there's something you need to share with us, just let somebody anybody at the jail know. >> I will go. >> Hey, this is somebody I need to talk to and they'll reach out to us. >> I will. Okay, we'll come out again. Um I I I understand you. >> 1985. >> Yeah. >> So, >> well, if you happen to change your mind about anything or something comes back to you. >> Um this is my card. Okay. >> Okay. With the cold case and missing persons, uh >> did they explain to you the DNA system, how it works and all that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, in this case here, we did find DNA. I think I've already told you that once. Um, so it has been submitted. We're just waiting for everything to come back and start calling. So I'm go here. Take the water first. Drink this. >> Sure. >> I got one. stick it out. >> Yeah, I think it out. Lock these up so they don't tighten up on you. It's a It's only like a couple more rides. So, all right, we got everything. Need this stuff. I'll put this in your pocket. Thank you. I'll come back. Come back up. >> Daniel Leonard Wells was arrested on March 18th, 2020 and charged with homicide and sexual battery. He was held at the Escambia County Jail without bond. 15 days later on April 2nd, he was found dead in his cell. The Escambia County Sheriff's Office confirmed the death as an apparent suicide. Daniel Wells was never tried. There was no verdict and no sentence. But after 35 years, DNA had led investigators to him. And in that interrogation room, Wells gave detectives an account of Tanya's killing in his own words. Tanya McKinley was 23 years old. She was a daughter, a cousin, and a mother to a little boy, not yet two. She had gone out to welcome a new year. She should have come home. For 35 years, the people who loved her refused to let her case go quiet. Because of them, her name was still spoken when the answer came. Daniel Leonard Wells thought he got away with murder for 34 years. Then DNA exposed him. If you value real police interrogations, critical moments, and the investigative strategies that uncover the truth, subscribe to Evidence Lab Interrogation and turn on notifications so you don't miss the next interrogation. Until next time, stay observant because in the interrogation room, every word matters.