Sometimes an interrogation doesn't break a suspect with one question. It breaks the story one contradiction at a time. >> Well, it's not that. >> Everybody wants to lie now. Wow. >> Well, you started out lying. [sighs] >> All right. But I I end up telling the truth, though. >> Well, maybe they'll end up telling me the truth. >> All right. Why? >> I just uh if you didn't if you weren't okay with this, why you would just let Nikki just stab on this girl? >> Because after the first couple times and I was like, what are you trying to do? Like you really trying to kill her? And like I said, I was drinking that night and I got discombobulated and I was like, you know what? I'm not about to be a part of this. So that's like I said, that's when I went out the window. On March 13, 2020, 23-year-old Maria Inz Best was brutally murdered inside her own apartment in Columbus, Ohio. She was stabbed 44 times. Her throat was slit. And investigators said the attack continued for several hours. But what made this case even more disturbing was what happened afterward. The killer tried to erase the evidence, throwing rubber, gloves, and the knife handle into separate trash bins. It didn't work. Investigators recovered DNA from the gloves, the knife, and the knife handle. When detectives finally brought William Elliot into the interrogation room, he didn't confess. Instead, he gave them a story about catching a number 10 bus out west. There was just one problem. The cameras, body cam footage, and witnesses told a completely different story. And as detectives began tearing apart his timeline, Elliot did something even more revealing, he started pointing the finger at someone else. But the more he talked, the deeper he placed himself inside the crime. >> You just go take a walk. So she's sitting up there holding her head and she's crying and everything. We're like, so I that's when I noticed the hole in the wall and I was like, damn. I said, now we got to fix that or she going to get kicked out. >> Mhm. So, um, after that was said and done, Michael left for a minute. He came back and then her and Nikki got into it. Maria and Nikki got into it. And Nikki was like, "Uh," she was like, "You keep it on, bitch." And I I'mma end up killing your ass or some [ __ ] like, "Why don't you just go take a walk?" So, she's sitting up there holding her head and she's crying and everything. We're like, so I that's when I noticed the hole in the wall and I was like, "Damn." I said, "Now we got to fix that or she going to get kicked out." >> Mhm. >> So um after that was said and done, Michael left for a minute. He came back. And then her and Nikki got into it. Maria and Nikki got into it. And Nikki was like, "Uh" she was like, "You keep it on, bitch." And I I'mma end up killing your ass or some [ __ ] like that. >> This is William Elliot. He said he had nothing to do with the murder, but detectives already knew he was lying. >> Sit back and let's start. >> William, how you doing? I'm Detective W. >> Sleepy. >> So, they tell you why you're down here? No. Okay. They didn't tell you. You didn't ask. >> Yeah. They said, "We'll talk about it when we get downtown." >> They just told you you had a warrant. >> Yeah. >> They tell you what it's for. >> No. >> Murder. >> Murder. >> Yeah. >> You have any reason why you have a murder warrant on you? >> No. Okay. [groaning] >> Where are you staying at now? >> Same address. 57 South Road. [snorts] >> 57 what? South Grub. >> I say what? >> 57 South Grub. >> Grub. >> Yeah. G R U B. >> And who you staying here with? >> By myself. >> Oh, you working anywhere? >> No. >> Well, I'd like to talk to you about this. This is involves a female by the name of Maria Best. to ramp up. >> So, I'm sure you know what this and I'd like to obviously get your side of story or with regards to her, but I'm going to read your rights first. Have you had your rights read to you before? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> You can speak English, correct? >> Yeah. >> What's the last grade you completed in school? >> I love it. >> You reading, right? >> Yeah. >> You have any hearing problems? >> No. >> You need glasses or contacts to read? >> Yeah. >> Can you read this right here? Can you see this? >> Yeah. Can you see this? >> Yeah, barely. >> Okay. Well, I'm going to read it out loud to you so that way if you got any questions. [snorts] >> Have you taken any alcohol in the last 12 24 hours? >> Yeah. >> How much would you say? >> A couple cans. >> How long ago? >> About an hour ago. >> So, you had a couple cans about an hour ago? >> Okay. How many drugs? Prescription or illegal? >> Take prescription drugs. >> Do they alter you in any way? And can you understand me? For the first time in this interrogation, William's story is no longer being questioned. It's being dismantled. Until now, he has been presenting a timeline that gives him distance from Maria's death. But the detective suddenly reveals something William can't explain away. Surveillance footage, police body cameras, and statements from people who were there. And then comes the pressure point. The detective tells him directly that he knows William never took the bus when he claimed he did. Notice what happens psychologically. William does immediately replace the entire story. Instead, he tries to adjust the details. That's as important because once a person realizes the investigator knows more than expected, maintaining the original story becomes increasingly difficult. The detective also tells him that Michael and Crystal have already spoken. Now William isn't just defending himself against one investigator. He has to worry about whether his story matches everyone else's. And that's when the interrogation changes. The detective isn't trying to convince William that he's lying anymore. He's showing him that the evidence already knows he is. [snorts] >> Do they alter you in any way? And can you understand me fine? Okay. Wow. Wow. All right, I'm reading this part to you out loud. We go over it. If you got any questions, before we ask you any questions, you must understand your rights. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before asking any questions. You have the right to have a lawyer with you during questioning. If you are unable to pay a lawyer, a lawyer will be appointed for you prior to any questioning if so desire. If you wish to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering at any time. You also have the right stop answering at any time until you talk to a lawyer. Is there any part of that that you don't understand? You have any questions about it? >> Okay. Would you like [snorts] to talk to me about this incident? >> I just like I said, it's news to me. So, I mean, y'all get me for murder if I'm not understand how I'm getting charged for murder. >> Well, well, that's what I'm saying. We can have a conversation about it. Is that something you want to do? >> I mean, I'll ask much as I can, but yeah. >> Okay. [clears throat] So, I just need your signature right here that you understand your rights as they were read to you. Okay. So tell me what was your relationship with Maria best? >> She was uh the girlfriend of my friend Michael. >> Michael who? >> Like so. >> Okay. How long you known her? >> Uh long time. Like six, seven, maybe eight years. >> When was the last time you saw her? the night that we stayed with her and the police got called and they she kicked us off the apartment. >> Why'd she kick you guys out? >> Because she wanted to be with Michael and Michael didn't want to be with her. >> So she made you all leave? >> Yeah. >> Did you guys have any other issues before that? >> The night before. >> What? >> We went to the laundromat and she uh her and Michael got into it again. And after that, the police got called to the laundromat. And then she pressed charges on me. She dropped charges. And then after that, um, >> she pressed charges on you. >> Yeah. >> For what? >> Uh, I think she put for assault or something like that. I don't know. I left the laundry mat. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> So, you think she filed some kind of assault charge you with regards to the laundry mat issue? >> Yeah, that was the night before. And then when we left again that night, I don't know what happened after that because when I left, I went somewhere else. >> You left, you went somewhere else. >> You never went back to her apartment after that. >> No, we went next door to her apartment and dropped our stuff off and my girlfriend and Michael stayed there and I left. >> Okay. Where [snorts] did you go? >> Out west. >> Well, where out west? >> Just hanging out. But just pick me up from >> Is there anybody that we can talk to that says that you are out west? couple people. >> Do you want to tell me who those are? >> Uh, well, I don't know their real names. I know they shorten their nicknames. >> Where did you meet them at out west last? >> Right there at the Shell gas station. Right there on Broad and Rogers. >> Okay. So, the night before you guys got kicked out, there was a incident that happened at the laundromat. Do you know which laundromat? >> Right there on Maine and I don't know that side street right across from Walmart. William now begins explaining what happened after he supposedly left the area. But something interesting slips into his explanation. Instead of simply talking about Maria's death, he starts talking about why the police might blame him. That's a subtle psychological shift. The conversation is supposed to be about what happened to Maria. Yet William's attention is already moving toward his own exposure. He knows Maria had previously made allegations against him and he immediately connects that history to the possibility that investigators could suspect him. The detective doesn't need to accuse him directly. William is already thinking about the accusation himself. This is one of those moments where the wording matters more than the emotion. He's trying to establish distance from the crime while simultaneously explaining why he might become a suspect. And that contradiction gives investigators another threat to >> clean right or whatever you call him. [snorts] >> Ted Royal. >> Yeah. >> Okay. [sighs] >> What sparked this incident at the laundromat? >> Because we all went to laundry mat. We asked her to fold the clothes. She said she didn't want to fold the clothes. So me and her got into argument. So I walked off. Then her and Michael got into it. Michael told her to fold the clothes. And like we was like, "Well, you're not getting the car and going home, but us then if you're not gonna fold the clothes." So somebody else >> Whose clothes were these that needed folding? >> Her Michael's. >> Okay. So she didn't want to fold these clothes. You guys are going to just leave her there. Is that what you mean? >> But we was just saying that just to mess with her. >> Oh, you didn't plan on leaving. >> Who was driving that day? >> Uh the neighbor Jeremy something. I don't know his last name. >> What' you say? >> Jeremy. >> Jeremy. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, Jeremy's driving and uh Yeah. This thing. So, did you guys end up leaving together or what happened? >> Yeah, we end up going home after that after the incident after police got called and then we end up >> Were you there when the police showed up? >> No, I had already been out the street. >> Okay. So, you left? >> Yeah. >> Then you came back or they come pick you up? >> Well, no. Yeah, they came pick me up. Yeah. >> Okay. And you thought that night she filed assault charges on you? >> She did. >> But then I guess she turned around Germany and Michael told me that she ended up dropping them. [sighs] >> Okay. So she dropped them. So and then you just you ended up going back to her apartment that night. >> Yeah. >> So did this get brought up again after that? No. Well, the next night we got into it again because her and Michael wanted to be together. Michael was like, "I'm about to leave." And then she pulled a knife out and threatened to cut herself. And uh the police came. Well, I'm sitting at the table, uh Crystal sitting right here, Michael sitting right there. But when the police walk in, they grab a knife in front of me and throw it in the sink. And I'm like, "Well, we I'm Cuz we didn't want to call the police. We told her that she was trying to We didn't." What you mean we? >> Me, Crystal, and Michael. >> So, you all got on the phone and called? >> Well, I mean, I'm saying I called, but I'm saying like >> So, who actually called? >> I called. >> Okay. >> And I told him, I said, "My sister's trying to commit suicide." And they came out. We took the knife from her. We set the knife on the table. And the police came in. First thing he does is grab it and throw it in the sink. And we're like, "Why would you touch it? Like, we're telling you that she's trying to commit suicide." And so, they was like, "Well, you're all not on the lease. You all got to go." And we're like, "Well, so you all just going to leave her by herself so she can commit suicide?" And that's when the cop was like, "Well, y'all got to go." So I left. >> Mhm. >> And then Crystal and Michael called me and it was like, "Well, we got to put all our stuff next door at Jeremy's house." I'm like, "All right, well, I'm going to stay around the corner until everything calms down." >> So you left and went just around the corner. >> I just walked around. >> Okay. [snorts] And then did you come back at all that night? >> Uh, German came picked me up. I grabbed a couple pair of pants and I left and got on the bus and I went out west. >> So, what time did you get on the bus? >> Oh, I don't know. It was probably like 11, 12, maybe cuz buses start running at 12:00. So, it's probably like 10 or 11 somewhere around there. >> So, at 10 or 11 you got on the bus. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And then you rode out west. Do you remember which bus it was you got on? >> Number 10. >> Okay. >> So, did you talk to anybody the rest of that night? >> I talked to Crystal. >> What Crystal said? >> Nothing. She was upset. She asked me why I left and I told her I didn't want to be bothered with the situation. So, I told her I'll probably see her tomorrow. >> Okay. And but Crystal stayed there. >> Yeah. At Germany's. Okay. her and Michael. >> Was there anybody else there? >> Uh Nikki. >> Who's Nikki? >> Uh she's a close friend >> of you or Michael? >> All of us. >> How long you known her? >> Long time. >> Where'd she go? >> I don't know. So, was Nikki there when the police showed up? >> Yeah. >> How long is she staying there, too? >> No, she just got a visit. >> Okay. >> And she's not like a girlfriend of yours or something? >> No. >> So, when everybody got kicked out, Nikki left, too? Vicki left and went over, I guess, with uh Michael and Crystal and Jeremy. >> And then you don't know if she stayed there or did she leave? >> No, cuz like I said, I was mad, so I just did. >> Okay. [clears throat] Now, when you went after the police left and you went back to Jeremy's to get your pants before you got on the bus, did uh how long were you inside the apartment? Maybe 20, 30 minutes. Long [snorts] enough to tell Crystal I love her. Gave her a kiss and she gave me a couple dollars and I left. >> How long have you two been together? >> About 2 years. Now, why you wearing how well do you know Jeremy? You guys good friends or? >> We just met him like a couple days before that. >> Oh, so you don't really know him that well. >> Yeah. >> So why would he let you guys keep his your stuff over there? >> I don't know. Cuz I guess he's seen the pressure increases. He didn't like doing something difficult interrogations. >> He always told responsibility away from himself. >> Michael had been violent. >> Nikki had threatened Maria. And William begins presenting both of them as possible sources of the violence. At first, this sounds like cooperation. He's giving the detective names, motives, and details. But there's another side to it. Every time William points towards someone else, he's also creating a version of events that investigators can test, the detective doesn't have to argue with him. He can simply listen. Because the more details William provides, the more opportunities there are for contradictions to appear later. And that's exactly what begins happening. William is trying to build a story where he is surrounded by dangerous people but somehow always remains on the outside of the violence. like he just basically was like uh it was what a couple weeks ago he was like uh something about Crystal's purse came up and we kind of went back and forth and I told him I said well cuz he kept telling me he wasn't allowed back in his apartment until they had an investigation and then finally I guess when his apartment got released um he got in touch with Crystal and told her she can come get her stuff and everything, whatever. >> Well, our stuff. And >> um when she said she went to go over, her purse was missing. >> Okay. >> So, it was another individual involved, too. Her name was Jess, I think her name was. And Jess had called me and she said, well, she text me and she was like, um, she was like, "Yeah, I did see Jeremy with her purse. It was sitting on the side of her car and this and that." So, we kind of like went back and forth. And I asked him, I was like, "Well, all it needs you to do is return her purse cuz her ID, birth certific, and everything in there." So, we kind of went back and forth a little bit, and I was like, "Man, if you don't return her purse, we're going to have some problems." And after that, I haven't talked to him since. >> So, you trying to get Crystal's purse back? >> Yeah. >> What did her purse look like? >> It was like a brown like snakes skin looking purse, but you know the ones they go over their shoulders. Yeah. [snorts] Cuz the last time I talked to her, she said she was going to press charges on him because he tried to say that the detectives and the police took her purse, which I don't understand why would they take her purse for her. But then when I talked to the Jessica, Jessica was like, "Yeah, I seen it sitting beside him in his car, I guess, on a Saturday when he went to go pick her up or whatever." But she said she thought it was a new purse that he was going to give to his girlfriend. >> Oh, she thought he was going to steal and give it to his girlfriend, >> right? [snorts] But see, Crystal has this app thing, an alert on her phone that somebody just recently tried to use her chime card at Speedway on 161 in Cleveland. They just tried to use it recently, so we know now. >> Did she call the police about that? >> Well, she was supposed to go down there and file a report, but I haven't talked to her since that. >> Okay. What card was it that you try to use? >> A chime card. >> What's a chime card? >> No, you're not hooked to a chime card. It's a white and green card. Chime. You don't never see the commercials for Chime. >> Yeah. >> I don't watch commercials. >> Oh. >> So, it's called a Chime card. >> Yeah. >> And it was Crystals. >> Yeah. >> And somebody tried to use it where? >> At Speedway on 161 in Cleveland. >> Well, actually two Speedways. The other Speedway down the road, but I don't know what road that is. They try to buy a pack of cigarettes or something. Okay. So, is there anything else about that night you might think I want to know? to be honest with me, to be with you, I think that if somebody did kill her, and I just I don't like I don't know. I don't like really talking to the police or nothing, but honestly, I think if somebody did kill her, it would probably have to be either Nikki or Michael >> because that night that night that Nikki came over, her and Maria got into it and >> well actually her and Michael got into it first >> and she ran her head through the wall and we heard this loud noise so we went in the bedroom. It was >> who put whose head through the wall? >> Michael put Maria's head through the wall. >> Ah, okay. There's a hole in the wall by the when you go into the bathroom. And we So we ran in the bedroom, me, Crystal, and Nikki. And he's like, "What's going on?" And he was like, "I'm tired of this [ __ ] with with W." And I'm like, "What happened?" He was like, "She won't let me leave. She won't let me stay." And I'm like, "Well, why don't you just go take a walk?" So she's sitting up there holding her head and she's crying and everything. We're like, So I That's when I noticed the hole in the wall. And I was like, "Damn." I said, "Now we got to fix that or she going to get kicked out." >> Mhm. So, um, after that was said and done, Michael left for a minute. He came back and then her and Nikki got into it. Marie and Nikki got into it and Nikki was like, "Uh," she was like, "You keep it on, bitch." And I may end up killing your ass or some [ __ ] like that. That was before the police. >> This was Yeah. >> So, Michael put her hand through the wall. >> Yeah. And Nikki threatened her. >> Yeah. >> What? And why was Nikki threatened her? >> Because she was telling her, "But she don't need to be with Michael. Michael can do better." And just >> Why did she want to be with Michael? >> I think so. >> Did they have something going on? They used to try to like date back in the day, but I guess in Nikki would end up with somebody else and Michael would never leave Marie alone. So, okay. So, Nikki's right there. So, were Michael and Nikki currently messing around? >> Well, the night that Maria put us out, Nikki and M I did overhear Nikki and Michael talking about trying to hook up. She was like, "Well, now that you're not with that [ __ ] no more, we can do our thing. This is before I left. Won't be next door to Germans. We can do our thing. This is before I left when we was next door to Germany's. >> That was before. >> Yeah. >> Is that when you came back to get pants? >> Yeah. >> So, when you come back to get pants, you didn't even really talk >> Well, I grabbed an outfit. I didn't just grab >> Well, I mean clothes. Let me just say clothes. >> So, when you came back to get clothes, you didn't really talk to the guy that lives there that Jeremy. You didn't really talk. >> No, he was in the bedroom. Crystal was sitting on the couch and Michael and uh Nikki was sitting on the floor by the front door. >> Other than getting your clothes, did you get anything else? >> Well, my hygiene bag. That was it. >> Okay. [snorts] So, and then when you left after you got your clothes, all three of them were in the apartment with Jeremy. >> Mhm. And they didn't mention about going anywhere or doing anything else? >> Not that I know of. >> Do you remember at all going to a Turkey Hill the bar or the gas station? Turkey Hill gas station. I >> think that was early that night. I think we went to go get cigarettes or something. >> Who did that? Who went? >> Me, Crystal, Jeremy. I think Michael was with us. >> Did you go outside the Turkey? I >> think so. I was drinking a little bit that night, so I can't like a little It was a little bit blurry that night. So, >> would you drink it when the police got there? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, you know how DNA works? >> This is where the detective turns William's own timeline against him. Instead of asking another open-ended question, he starts introducing facts. Cameras were recording. Officers had body cameras. The hospital across the street had surveillance and the detective had already spoken with other people. Williams original escape story depended on one thing, the investigator believing his version of the timeline. But now that timeline has an external reference. The detective doesn't need William to admit that he lied. He simply needs William to understand that the story cannot survive the evidence. That's why this moment is so important psychologically. When a suspect realizes the investigator can independently verify the details, the safest strategy becomes telling the truth or at least changing the story before the evidence changes it for them. And William begins doing exactly that. Okay. >> Um, I got a search warrant signed by a judge so I can get your DNA. Now, when uh we look at your DNA, do you think we're gonna find anything matching anything at Mary's apartment? >> Like what? I mean, you talking about fingerprints all over apartment? Cuz I mean, we did stay there. >> Mhm. >> I mean, that's the only thing you're going to find. Yeah, I admit to that. You probably going to find fingerprints there cuz we stayed there. >> Well, let's do this. How about I tell you like I know you didn't get on the bus at 10 or 11:00 at night. Okay. I know you were back in Maria's apartment several times throughout the night after you guys had gotten kicked out. I mean, I know that you had to have seen that there's a police station right across the street. >> Yeah, I know. >> And that there's an OSU hospital right across the street. >> Every one of those has surveillance cameras everywhere, >> right? >> Come watch you guys leaving Jeremy's apartment and going to Maria's apartment and back and forth. I also talked to Crystal. I also talked to Michael. They did not do you any favors. So if you want to go alone on this, that's entirely up to you. >> They didn't do me no favors. >> They didn't do you any favors. They're not their story, their statement about you and the things that occurred that night are nothing compared to what you just said. Don't look confused cuz obviously you know I did not file a murder warrant on you just on a hunch or because some assault thing. There's a reason I filed a murder war on you. Cuz I have evidence to show that you weren't there when that girl got killed. >> When Maria got killed? >> Yes. Got killed. I know you weren't. You've already lied to me a dozen times. You didn't get on no bus. The police didn't even show up till 12:30 at night. >> 12:30 at night. >> Yeah. They didn't show up till 12:30 to kick you guys out. They all have body cams on. Everything's documented. What time? So, okay. So, you tell me. >> So, you didn't get on a bus? >> It was It had been before 12:30. No, >> I'm not lying to you. I know what time it was. >> Everything's on video. And when police showed up, you showed your ass telling them they couldn't come in the apartment and then you stormed off. >> Yeah. >> Right. That was not at 9 10:00. You didn't catch no bus that night. You didn't go out west. The video camera from OSU Hospital shows everything. It's right at Jeremy and Maria's front door. It could not be a better picture. So, is that the story you want to stick with? >> So, you're telling me that when the police >> No, I'm not telling you. >> You're saying the police didn't show up to 12:30, 1:00? >> Yeah, the police did not show up to 12:30. I can show you. >> We called the police and told her that she was trying to commit suicide. >> Yes, the police showed up at 12:30. It was at 12:38. It didn't even seem like it was that late. >> Yeah. Well, there was no buses running, so the whole bus story is a lie. But that's beside the point. The fact is everything's on video. The video from OSU Hospital shoots right at her apartment building. I can tell every time her door is opened. I can tell every time somebody walks in. Now, I know that you weren't in there by yourself. So, if you want to tell me exactly what happened that night, I know I Okay, listen. I I You don't need to lie to me. If you don't want to talk to me, say you don't want to talk. But if you're going to lie to me, don't waste your time. >> But you're trying to say you putting a murder case on me, saying that I didn't that I went in there and I did something to that girl. >> Mhm. >> That's exactly what I'm saying. >> No, cuz I would have never hurt that girl ever. >> Okay. I mean, if you want to keep it real with each other. No, I didn't go in there and do nothing to her. >> So, you weren't there when it happened? >> I left before it [clears throat] happened. >> Before what happened? >> Before she got stabbed. >> Who stabbed her? >> Nikki. >> How do you know? >> Cuz she was the only one left in there. >> Nikki was the only one left in there. >> Yeah, >> cuz Crystal said when she went back over there, Nikki came and got her. When she went back over there, you were sitting in there. You were Nikki. You guys were all threatening her. Nikki kicked her in the face. Crystal freaked out and left. You were still in there. >> Yeah, that's true. But I left after. >> So you're lying. You already met. So now you want to try and tell the actual story of what actually happened? >> Before that happened. Yes. Nikki did kick her in the head. I left. I >> Who was beating her up before that? >> Michael did the first time. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I ain't going to lie about that. >> Then you were just sitting there. You didn't have anything to do with it. >> No, I didn't tell. Now the interrogation moves into completely different territory. William starts describing what he says happened inside Maria's apartment. His strategy is clear. Acknowledge that violence occurred, but place the actual killing in Nikki's hands. He presents himself as someone who witnessed what happened rather than participated in it. But detectives aren't only interested in who held the knife. They're interested in where William was, what he saw, and what he did afterward. That distinction matters because even if his account of Nikki's actions were accepted, William still has to explain his own presence, his movements, and eventually the physical evidence connecting him to the scene. The story is becoming more detailed, but with every new detail, William is giving investigators more information that can be compared against the evidence. His problem is no longer simply proving that he wasn't the killer. His problem is explaining why he was there at all. >> When she went back over there, you were sitting in there. You were Nikki. You guys were all threatening her. Nikki kicked her in the face. Crystal freaked out and left. And you were still in there. >> Yeah, that's true. But I left after. >> So you're lying. You already met. So now you want to try and tell the actual story of what actually happened >> before that happened? Yes. Nikki did kick her in the head. I left. I >> Who was beating her up before that? >> Michael did the first time. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I ain't lie about that. >> Then you were just sitting there. You didn't have anything to do with it. >> No, I didn't touch her at all. That's God's honest truth. >> No point. Did you ever touch her? >> No. >> Okay. >> Why is your DNA all over the rubber gloves you guys used? >> Now, that I don't have no problem with because I didn't touch nothing in there at all. All I know is that when I went in there, Nikki was like, "I'mma kill this bitch." >> Why is your DNA on the rubber gloves that were used? >> What's rubber gloves? I didn't touch no rubber gloves. >> Well, your DNA is on the rubber gloves that we found in the trash can along with the knife that we found along with the other rubber gloves we found. You can't argue your DNA. You know how it works. >> You're saying that I've had them rubber. >> Why do you think you haven't worn them? The DNA matched you? How? There's no way. >> Cuz you put on rubber gloves when you guys tried to clean up the apartment. >> Wow. I didn't have no rubber gloves on at all. >> I mean, you can go by yourself or you can tell me exactly what happened and we can charge the other people involved in this. It doesn't matter to me. >> I didn't kill that girl. >> Okay. Is that this is that the story you want to stick with? >> I didn't kill her. I didn't say yours was the only DNA on rubber gloves, but your DNA was on rubber gloves. So, if you want to tell me exactly what happened in there, you can tell me. I know it's rough, man. I know you don't want to talk to the police. I know you don't want to get yourself in the jackpot, but you're in the big jackpot right now. So, Like I told you, we got video watching guys going in and out of the apartment all night long. >> So you just tell me who did what? Nikki stabbed her. >> How many times she stabbed her? >> I don't know, like six or seven. After 71, I left and went out the window. >> She was trying to see her get done. >> She stabbed a lot more than six or seven. >> I after 6 or seven, I went out the back window. I was like, I'm not about to be a part of this. >> You went out the back window. >> Really? >> Because Michael and them said that you ran out the back window when the police showed up. >> No, I went out the back window when we was at Maria's apartment cuz I wouldn't be trying to be a part of it. [snorts] >> So, [clears throat] you weren't there when the police showed up? >> But yesterday, the next day, >> then in the morning when the police got called about her. >> No, because I I went out the window probably like right after Jeremy left. to go out the front door, wherever he went at. I was way gone before then. >> Nikki go with you? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you and Nikki went out the back window of Jeremy's apartment. >> Yeah. Well, the night that Maria got stabbed, I went out Maria's back window. >> So, you guys after it was all said and done, you went back over to Jeremy's and then when he left, you guys bolted out his window, >> right? >> Because you thought what? I thought the reason why I left is because I wasn't trying to get that put on me like that. >> Okay. Did you assume that Jeremy was going to go call the police? >> Pretty much. Yeah. >> Okay. So, I don't want to put words in your mouth. I want you to >> No, no, you're you're absolutely right. >> Okay. >> But I'm not the one that killed her. I'm not the one that stabbed. >> All right. Well, let's go back to the beginning of the night. So, please show up. You guys get kicked out. No, the police did show up. I think it was 12:38. Please show up. Kick you guys out. You get all pissing and storm off. >> Mhm. >> Where did you go? >> I just walked around the corner. >> Okay. Well, how long before you came back? >> That I couldn't tell you because I was so pissed. And then Jeremy them was like, "Uh, we got all your stuff out. It's in my apartment." Then they all begged me like, "We're going to come pick you up." And I was like, "I don't want to be nowhere near her apartment." Whatever. And they was like, "Well, the police can't say nothing about us staying in Germany." So, they came and picked me up. And well before they kept picking me up, they was like, "Maria pressed salt charges on you again." And I was like, "What? Two nights in a row?" Like, "Wow, really?" Like, "What did I do to her?" Like, Michael was the one that put her head through the wall, so why she's pressing salt charges on me? >> Mhm. >> So, they came pick me up. We went back to the apartment. And >> do you remember where exactly was? They picked you up at >> Mount Vernon, I think it was. >> Okay. >> So, they picked you up somewhere on Mount Vernon. Yeah. I was by that little drive-thru. >> All right. So, and then you guys go back to the apartment. >> Mhm. >> Then what happens? >> Then we was sitting there and Michael was like, "Uh, oh, you know, I made a key. We can get back in." And I was like, "Okay." He was like, I said, "What do y'all want to do?" And Nick Nikki was like, "Well, I want to go over and beat her ass." So that's when we went back over there. >> Okay. So, who all went back over that time? me, Michael, and Nikki. >> Okay. And that was the first time you guys went back over after the police had kicked you out. >> Yeah. >> And where was Crystal at? >> Uh, I think she was >> William now begins reconstructing the events inside Maria's apartment step by step. Michael allegedly uses a key to get them inside. Nikki attacks Maria. Maria is already injured and William continues insisting that he didn't participate. This is where the detective's questioning becomes particularly important. Instead of staying at the level of did you hurt her, the questions force William to reconstruct the sequence, who entered, who was there, what happened first, what happened next, and what did you personally do? These details create psychological pressure because a story becomes much harder to maintain when it has to remain consistent across an entire timeline. William keeps placing himself in the role of an observer. But the closer he gets to the actual attack, the harder it becomes to explain why he stayed there while the violence continued. >> Was she awake? Was she asleep? >> She was still awake, I think. >> So she knew you guys were going back over? >> She No, because she was in the bathroom when we went back over there. So, you didn't tell It's your girlfriend, right? >> Yeah. >> You didn't tell her you're leaving or heading out? >> We just stormed back over there. >> Okay. So, how'd you get in? >> Michael used the key, open the door. >> Okay. Michael used the key >> to open the door and then what? >> We went in. She was by the door. So, Nikki pushed the door and Maria fell down and she started beating her up and then uh she was screaming for me and Michael. And Michael um no she had a knife in her hand and Michael gra did >> and Michael grabbed a knife and threw it like across the floor. >> Okay. >> And then um I was just sitting in the chair smoking a cigarette and she was yelling for us. She was like make her stop. Make me stop. And then like me and Michael was like uh what did I say? I said something in the line like why would you make us go through this summer like this? Why would you get us kicked out? You know what I'm saying? Like we had everything made or something like that. So Nikki's just steady kicking her or whatever. And I was like you know what? Let's go y'all. Like it's cool. Like so that's when we went back next door and uh Nikki was like I'm not done. So >> So how was she when you left that time? laying on the floor, had a big knot on her face. >> Was she unconscious? Was she awake? What? >> Kind of in and out. >> Was when you left, were you concerned that she was going to get up and call the police? >> Not really, cuz I didn't do nothing to her. >> Okay. So, Nikki beats her up. You don't know whether she's unconscious or not, you know? >> No, cuz we go back next door. >> So, you go back over to Jeremy's and [snorts] then what? And like Crystal was like, "What's going on?" And I was like, "Nikki just beat the [ __ ] out of Maria." And she just started shaking her head. Like, so I was like, "Well, I'm about to go take me a walk." And then that's when me and Michael went over to check on her and Nikki come back over and she was like, "If y'all ain't want to be a part of this, I'm about to do her in." And I'm like, "What do you mean you about to do her in?" So the knife that Michael took from Ria and threw across the the floor. Nikki picks it up and [snorts] she's stabbing in her shoulder and she stabbed her in her chest or something like that. So I look at Michael, Michael starts having a seizure. So I help Mike out a seizure. Then he goes, "No, Crystal came over and she was like, "What's going on?" When she see that, she was like, "Oh, I'm not trying to be a part of this." So her and Michael go back next door to Germanies. >> Mhm. And like I think I said like it was like six or seven times after Nikki stabbed her and I seen that blood was coming out her chest and stuff. I went out the back window and went back over to Jeremy's. >> Why'd you go out the back window? >> Cuz I wasn't trying to be a part of that. I didn't want no no neighbors or nobody to see me going out the front door. >> So you go back over to Maria's. Uh Nikki starts stabbing her. What's Michael doing? >> Michael's already back over at Germany's cuz like I said, he had a seizure while Nikki was stabbing. >> But did Michael see any of the stabbings before he had a seizure? >> Yeah, that's what made him go into a seizure. >> That's what I mean. So, you go back over to Maria. It's you, Nikki, and Michael. >> Mhm. >> Uh, she then gets the knife and starts stabbing Maria. Michael starts having a seizure. >> I get him out of a seizure. How do you get him out of a seizure? >> Well, I talk to him. He don't He has like the grandma seizures. >> So, you get him out of a seizure >> and then Crystal comes over. >> Mhm. And at that is that the point that Crystal saw >> I don't think she seen Nikki stab her. >> She see her kick her in the head. >> Yeah, she did say she seen blood though. I remember her saying that. So she said sees that she's all bloody and then she sees Nikki kick her in the head. >> I don't think she seen Nikki kick. I'm not for sure. >> She said she saw Nikki kick her in the head. >> Oh, she probably did. I don't know. Like everything. >> So was Nikki kicking her and stabbing her? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So she says she saw Nikki kick her in the head, but by that time Maria had already been stabbed a few times. >> Yeah. Like up in here. >> Up in the chest area. Yeah. >> And [snorts] was Nikki still or was Maria still dressed at that point? dressed. Yeah, she had on clothes. >> Yeah, she's fully clothed. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, and then uh Maria don't want to be involved, so she leaves. >> Maria, >> I'm sorry. Crystal don't want to be involved, so she leaves >> cuz she said Michael come on. And that's when her and >> so she takes Michael with her. >> Oh, okay. [snorts] This is the moment the account becomes much darker. William says Nikki returned with the knife and began stabbing Maria. He describes seeing blood. Michael reacts and eventually William says he escaped through the back window. Notice the language he's using. He doesn't describe himself as an active participant. He describes himself as someone who became overwhelmed and decided to leave. That distinction appears repeatedly throughout his story. Whenever the violence becomes more serious, William moves himself toward the edge of the scene. But the detectives questions keep pulling him back toward the center because leaving after witnessing the attack doesn't erase the fact that he was there. And it certainly doesn't explain the evidence investigators say connects him to the >> I'm sorry. Crystal don't want to be involved. So she >> cuz she said Michael come on and that's where her >> So she takes Michael with her. >> Oh, okay. [snorts] So, it's just you and Nikki and Maria's apartment now, >> right? >> And then what happens? >> Then, like I said, she stabbed her a few more times. And >> And what did you say? >> I was like, "Sis, I said, "You really trying to kill her?" And she was like, she's like, "Yeah, [ __ ] this bitch." And I was like, "Well, I'm out of here." >> Why was she so angry? >> I don't know. >> But you did see her stab her a few more times before you left. And when you left that time, that's when you went out the window. >> Mhm. >> [snorts] >> So, and then you go out the window and you go back where? Back over to Jeremy's. >> Back over to Jeremy. Okay. And then what do you do? I lay down with Crystal and go to sleep. And then what happens? Then like I heard Jeremy get up and he was getting ready to leave. We was like, "Where are you going?" He said, "Something about taking his brother to court." And I was like, "No, that don't sound right." So, I got up, brushed my teeth, and I was like, "Well, I'm out of here." And then I went out the window, and then like Crystal calls me and she was like, "The police are here." I'm like, "Polies are where?" >> Wait, wait, you said Nikki went with you? >> Yeah, Nikki went out the window with me. Yeah. >> So, did you guys talk? So, we're getting out of here. What? >> No, I went out first. I started walking down the street and then when I looked back, Nikki was following me and I'm like, "Where are you going?" >> What' she say? >> And she was like, "I'm getting up out of here." And I'm like, "Why? What happened?" And then that's when I asked her. I was like, "Did you kill her?" And she was like, "We'll talk about it later." And I'm like, "Well, I'm not about to be around you." So, I went my way and she went her way. >> But I tell you, you guys are pretty close. You just >> I mean, we we're close, but we're not that close. Like, I've been known her for a long time on and off. I didn't think it would ever come to that. I didn't think that she would go that far. I mean I mean I know her and Maria had problems before and she threatened to be rubbing whatever, but I didn't think it'd go that far. >> Did you try to help clean up? >> No. >> Sure. >> Positive. >> Like I said, after I seen her stab her a couple more times, I went out the window and I was like, "No, I'm done. I'm cold. >> [gasps] >> Now, I told you that u there's video. >> Yeah, I know. >> You can see how many times people go in and out of each part. >> Yeah, I know. >> And obviously you're the biggest dude out of all of them. We can tell when you go in and tell when you come out. Now, did you go back in and try and help clean up your apartment? >> No, I did not. That's an old lie. >> What point did you put on the rubber gloves? Probably when I climbed out the window and I was like, I'm not trying to be a part of this cuz I didn't want my fingerprints to be on the window. >> Where'd you get them? >> They was already in apartment cuz we used them for cleaning up like you know when we mopped and swept and everything. [snorts] >> They were in Maria's apartment. >> Mhm. >> Now I You can't be lying to me. >> I know >> cuz those gloves belong to Jeremy. Those were his rubber gloves that he used to put in catheterss. You asked Jeremy if he had rubber gloves. >> No. Nikki asked him if he had rubber gloves. >> No, you asked Jeremy if he had rubber gloves. >> No, he's No, >> and Michael got the rubber gloves. >> He's lying because Nikki I remember Nikki asked she had rubber gloves and he gave them to her and she was like, "Here's >> you lied. They were not in Maria's apartment." >> No, listen. There was some already in there on her table because early that day he had gave her some. I remember the blue one sitting on the table. But before we left out of Jeremy's to go back into Maria's, Maria or Nikki asked Jeremy and said, "Can we get some gloves?" And I was looking like, "Why do we need gloves for her?" And she was like, "So we don't leave no fingerprints." So Jeremy did give Mickey some gloves. I'm not going to lie about that. But there was some already in Maria's apartment when we got in. >> Jeremy say didn't give anybody gloves. said that Michael came and got the box of gloves and you guys put gloves on >> and your DNA is on the gloves. >> It probably is. Like I said, I put them on when I went out the window. I do remember that now. >> So, you put on gloves to go out a window. >> Yeah. >> But you didn't put on gloves for anything else that was going on. >> Even though you >> Why would you do that? Why would you put on gloves to leave? >> Because after I seen her, >> you already been in there when they were stabbing. >> Right. But I'm saying after she started stabbing her, I was like, I'm not about to be a part of this. So, I put them on. That's when I climbed out the window. I bet you them gloves I had on probably ain't got none of her blood on her. >> So, when Michael and Jeremy or Michael and Nikki come in here and they're going to say that you helped clean up. >> Clean up what? >> Clean up the her apartment, it's obvious that somebody tried to clean up the apartment. >> Well, it wasn't me. >> Okay. >> Then, investigators introduce one of the most damaging pieces of the conversation, the rubber gloves. William first tries to explain where they came from, but the detective introduces another person's account. Suddenly, the gloves aren't just an object, they're a problem. William eventually admits that he did wear them, but he gives a very specific explanation. He says he put them on only because he was leaving through the window. And that's where the detective sees the weakness. Why would someone who had just witnessed a stabbing suddenly put on rubber gloves simply to climb out of a window? The question isn't complicated, but it's psychologically powerful because William has to explain the reason behind his behavior, not just admit that the behavior happened. And when the reason doesn't naturally fit the circumstances, suspicion increases. William is no longer fighting one accusation. He's trying to make several suspicious details make sense at the same time. Just don't understand why Nikki would take out so much anger on this girl that she could obviously overpower and beat up. I mean, what was the point of stabbing her and death? What I understand is I know I wasn't the only one that heard her at night saying that she wanted to kill her. I know Crystal and Michael and if Jeremy was there I think he heard her too say that. So, >> but why kill her? For what reason? >> I don't know. >> You just be that pissed off because she kicked you out of the apartment that wasn't >> She's on She's on drugs. Like >> did you see her doing any drugs that night? >> Yeah. She shot up some heroin. >> Was that her drug of choice? >> Mhm. >> Or whatever she has. tattoo crystal meth. >> All right, I just need you to tilt your head back a little bit. Just relax your mouth and get inside your cheek, >> crystal meth. >> Mhm. So evidently when y'all put this warn out on for me, y'all didn't even put one out for her either. >> Didn't give you the first chance. >> Yeah. She was standing right there when they arrested me. >> Should have said something. >> Oh yeah. Like there's Nikki Nicole right there. Pick her up. I was just sitting there kicking with my cousin then. And it was like I just didn't understand how they just walked up to the whole crowd and just pick me out like you got to work for the rest. Like it didn't make sense to me. Well, it doesn't make sense now. >> Yeah. I know it does. See, if you would have said something right then, see, you're at this point in this situation where it's going to be every man for himself. Cuz ain't nobody going to be sticking up for nobody else. They're all going to be trying to save their own ass. Well, and the first one you get, you're the first one to get the gas. You get to make a decision. >> You know how it works. So, if there's anything else you think you might want to talk to me about before Nikki and Michael get their opportunities, I would suggest you do it quickly. I'm not that hard to get hold of. There's anything else you think you can remember right now? Cuz my guess would be when Nikki comes in here, she going to put it on you. I >> already know. >> But that that trick no good though cuz she ain't going to be able to because [clears throat] I if you asked Crystal what time I came and laid down with her cuz she woke up. As soon as I lay down, she was like, "Where you been?" I was like, "I just left Maria." I said, "Nikki still over there." So whatever time it was that I woke Crystal up, she can tell you exactly that Nikki didn't come back with me. I guarantee that's what Krist will tell you. And no, Michael was still up cuz Michael was on his phone. [snorts] >> Okay. Anything else? You want to tell me? >> Nothing I can think of right now. Like I said, all I remember is going out the window, going to lay down with her, and then like when I woke up, Nikki was back and she was laying on the floor with Michael and that's when Jeremy was going to leave and I went out the window. Yeah, that's all I can think of right now. >> Okay. [snorts] >> When was the last time you talks or texts Crystal? about 3 or 4 days ago, I think. >> Then investigators introduce one of the most damaging pieces of the conversation, the rubber gloves. William first tries to explain where they came from, but the detective introduces another person's account. Suddenly, the gloves aren't just an object, they're a problem. William eventually admits that he did wear them, but he gives a very specific explanation. He says he put them on only because he was leaving through the window. And that's where the detective sees the weakness. Why would someone who had just witnessed a stabbing suddenly put on rubber gloves simply to climb out of a window? The question isn't complicated, but it's psychologically powerful because William has to explain the reason behind his behavior, not just admit that the behavior happened. And when the reason doesn't naturally fit the circumstances, suspicion increases. William is no longer fighting one accusation. He's trying to make several suspicious details make sense at the same