Did you immediately take it out to the car or was there some time lapse while you were cleaning? >> Um, I probably cleaned and then took it out. >> Okay. >> I I don't I don't remember how what >> I understand it's been 26 years, you know, and >> I don't even remember what year it was born. >> You It You'd be safe to say, you know, it was some time between when the kids would have left for school and when they returned from school. Yes. >> When did you marry your husband? >> 94. >> So it was prior to that, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. When did you move into the house that you currently >> September of 93? >> Okay. And was it prior to that? >> Gala County, Ohio. 1993. A newborn's body was found in a garbage bag dragged toward the roadside by wild animals. For 26 years, the baby remained unidentified. Then DNA genealogy led detectives to Gail Eastwood Richie, just 22 when the baby was born. She wasn't under arrest. She was free to leave, but she stayed. And identifying the mother was only the beginning. >> Um, as we indicated, Gil um at the house, our our intention is at this point not to arrest you. You're not under arrest. Okay. And uh we would like to get your side of the story, though. Um we just didn't want to do it there in your house. Have a kid come in or anything. That's just not a good situation. obviously with the topic at hand, but I do need to um you know, because we brought you back here, um you know, I want to go over a couple things. You know, again, at this point, you're not under arrest. Okay? You are free to leave. Okay? So, I'm going to just read your rights real quick. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can will be used against you in the court of law. You have the right to an attorney. We'll provide one free before any questioning if you desire. you could stop answering questions anytime. Do you understand that? >> Yes, I do. >> And with that being said, we do appreciate your your cooperation. Um, you know, obviously you had indicated that your parents had had told you that we had been out. So, I'm sure that you had kind of knew that this day was coming, uh, that we were going to be coming out to talk to you and, you know, that we we got their DNA, which is, you know, what ultimately led us to you. And what we would like to do is we're not here to judge you. We don't know what was going on in your life at the time. We know that, you know, there probably weren't as many options for for people at the time, you know, and uh but but that being said, we'd like to, you know, get your side of what happened. So at that time my husband and I were dating. [clears throat] >> Mhm. >> We were sexually active. >> Mhm. >> They did use contraceptives, but apparently one didn't work. [clears throat] >> I did not know I was pregnant at the time. I still had my menstrual cycles [clears throat] >> and then my menstrual cycles tend to stopping. >> Okay. >> I don't know how long they were. That you need to know that. I I don't know. >> But at some point during the pregnancy they stopped. >> Yes, it stopped. Do >> you know about when that would have been? >> They don't >> in relation I mean was it winter time or was it I mean is there anything you could kind of put to it that would tell you as to about when those menstrual cycles stopped? >> Um I want to say about 3 months before the baby was actually born. Yeah. >> Um, I honestly do not remember the date or the day when the baby was born. I do know. Um, I was at work. I was a nanny for a family in Shaker Heights. Um, I was waiting for them to come home from school. I hadn't been feeling well at all that day. The next thing I knew, I was giving birth to a baby in the toilet. I didn't know what to do. Kids haven't gotten home from school yet. The only thing I can think of baby I have no idea what the sex was. I never looked at it. I took it out to my car. [snorts] I placed it in the trunk. I cleaned up the bathroom. This is Gail Eastwood Richie's interrogation. 26 years after the baby was found, detectives are finally sitting across from the woman linked to the case. Now they need to find out what really happened that night. >> Was the baby still in a bag at that time or did you put it in something else? bag. >> Like a garbage bag. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Then I went home. >> Where were you living at the time? >> My parents. [clears throat] I was still there. >> Yes. Okay. I wasn't sure what to do. No one knew. Then we had [snorts] and I don't know the time frame from when to when but um camps that were associated with Quinia out here. I came out with our youth group for a weekend. I I didn't I got in my car. I left the camp for a while. I got in my car >> from Camp Coia. >> Yeah. >> I have trouble sitting there. >> Yeah. Um I got in my car and just drove. I don't know where I ended up. And I just ended up stopping on a road. I don't know which road. [gasps] And I took the bag out of the trunk and I laid it in the woods. I didn't know what to do. >> About how far from the camp were you remember? >> I I have no idea. I I really don't know. I I don't [clears throat] >> other than driving to the camp. I really don't. >> You couldn't too [clears throat] far cuz you didn't know the road. So, how would you get back, right? >> I I guess. >> Was anybody with you in the car? >> No. No. >> No. I was by myself. about how far off the road do you do you remember you went like with with the bag like how far from the roadway you would have went or was there anything specific by there? >> Nothing specific. No. Um not >> that. No. I just I remember stopping on the road. There was a lot of snow. I I do remember a lot of snow. and I walked in as far as I could and I left the back. >> Did you ever follow or read any stories or anything, you know, in the news or see any news clipping, you know, stories or anything like that about anything? >> I did not. No, >> I I did not know the baby was found. >> Okay. At what point do do you know that the baby was found? >> Gail says she didn't know she was pregnant at first, but she remembers her periods eventually stopping. Detectives want to know what she knew before the baby was born and whether she had any idea what was happening. >> I mean, was there was it recently? Was it a long time ago or >> No, you were at my parents and never said that you had known that the baby was found >> cuz that a baby was found. [clears throat] >> Now, getting back to uh you said you were at this this family's house in Shaker Heights >> when the baby was born, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you remember their name or where they lived at? >> They do. >> Okay. What was their name? >> I'd rather not. And why you do that? >> Just so I >> Well, I you can understand we need to kind of verify some things. And I'm not trying to give a hard time, but you know, obviously what you've told us, but we need to go back and try to verify some of those things. Um, it's been a long time. So, um, you know, and you said it was during the week, correct? Because the kids weren't home from school yet. >> That is correct. And so you were kind of a nanny in the afternoon. >> I was a nanny all day. >> All day. Okay. But he said some some of the kids weren't went to school. >> There were two children. >> There was two children. And they would go off to school. >> Yes. >> And then what time would they come home from school? >> Um maybe 3:30. >> And you would stay till about what time? >> 6. Usually 6. >> 6:00. And then you would go and that's when you went home from there. >> Yep. >> Okay. Um, so do you remember what day it was? Was it Thursday maybe or Friday? >> I honestly don't remember the day or the month. >> But you said you went to a weekend camp that that weekend, right? >> And I don't know if it was that weekend. It may have been a whole week. >> Okay. >> Um before. I I don't remember. So, you don't remember if the if the baby was in your tongue for like a week or just a couple days? >> It could have been. >> It could have been as long as a week >> possibly. Yeah. >> And you said that you were in the in the bathroom of the home. >> Yes. >> When the baby was born, but but nobody else was home at the time. >> No. >> No. You were by yourself? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um obviously there would have been, you know, [clears throat] the afterbirth and the umbilical cord. How were you able to um you know cut the umbilical cord and >> I didn't. >> You didn't cut the umbilical cord. >> No. >> No. >> Okay. >> You did not. >> So you left just basically everything attached to the baby. >> I did. >> The the after birth everything >> was was still attached to the baby. Um, and obviously um [clears throat] you know that the the baby was born alive. >> I I no don't remember. I don't recall it ever crying. >> Okay. But it's not like it was still born or anything. I mean the coroner's report shows that it it actually was breathing. >> Okay. So, um, at some point you I mean there had to be some something kind of that you heard or saw and the baby had to be moving or >> it it's possible. I I don't I don't remember. >> I I remember picking it up and placing it in the bag. >> Did it actually fall into the toilet when you when you gave birth? >> Yes. >> So, everything just kind of fell into the toilet? >> Yes. >> Okay. And not onto the floor or anything like that? >> No. >> Okay. So, the baby was actually in the toilet. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then where did you get the bag from and all that kind of stuff? >> Um, believe it was under the kitchen sink. >> Under the kitchen sink. So, just a normal trash bag. >> Yeah. >> Do you remember what color it was or anything? >> I'd say it could be clear, white, black. >> I believe it was black. >> Like a dark colored trash bag. Yes. >> And everything was still attached to the baby when you when you >> Yes. >> And when you put it into the bag, was it still moving or anything? >> I I don't recall it moving. >> You don't recall? >> No. >> Okay. You said you were able to to clean the bathroom up prior to the kids you were nanning returning home? >> Yes. >> Okay. And did you after after you put the baby into that bag, did you immediately take it out to the car or was there some time lapse while you were cleaning? >> Um, I probably cleaned and then took it out. >> Okay. >> I I don't I don't remember what. >> I understand it's been 26 years, you know, and >> I don't even remember what year it was born. But we you it you'd be safe to say you know it was sometime between when the kids would have left for school and when they returned from school. >> Yes. >> When did you marry your husband? >> 94. >> So it was prior to that correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. When did you move into the house that you currently >> September of 93. >> Okay. And was it prior to that? I mean, were you gonna I mean, that at least for some period of time, you know, you're pregnant and you're gonna you're gonna keep this baby or you're gonna tell Mark at some point? >> Um, >> or you're just going to get rid of it and act like it never happened? >> I'm I'm not sure. Um, I've never been never been good at confrontation. >> Mhm. >> Um, so I think I always tend to keep things to myself to avoid confrontation. Um, so I'm I'm not sure what I don't know if I ever had a plan or what I was going to do or I don't I don't remember. >> What do you think Mark would have said if you would have told him at the time? >> I'm not sure. >> Had you thought about that? like what you're going to tell Mark or when the baby came. >> I I don't even know if I thought about it. >> Um I I don't know. I don't know if I was going to tell him or Did you think there was going to be confrontation with him when you told him? Um, not in a in a bad way, but I've I've always had trouble um dealing with things that situations >> [clears throat] >> Um, >> I I I don't know. >> How long had you and Mark been dating when this happened? When When did you meet Mark? >> Um, we went to church together, so I'd known him most of high school. Um, and then um what does it say? >> Listen to how she describes the drive. She remembers leaving the camp, getting in her car, and stopping somewhere along the road, but she struggles to identify the exact spot. After more than 25 years, a memory can fade. Still, investigators need details that can be checked against the actual location. I'm going to say I liked him when I was 16. Do you remember that? Um and then we separated for a while and then I want to say when I was 17, we kind of hooked back up again. >> You guys have been dating ever since. Pretty much dating or married since 17. And when were you born? >> 1970. >> Right. >> So 87ish you guys met. You still in high school, right? >> I was. Yes. >> And he was out of high school. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So he had been dating for a couple years. >> Yeah. >> At that point. >> Yes. >> And obviously later that year you you moved in together and found year you got married. >> 93. You moved in together and then you got married in 94. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, how do you think he would have taken it at the time? What do you think he would have said? Were you afraid that he was going to leave you? What What was your concern with telling Mark? >> Um, >> I can understand you said your dad didn't want you to have kids out of his life. I it was probably Yes. I was probably afraid that that he would he would leave and want nothing to do with us. >> What makes you think that about March? You obviously known him for quite some time. >> That is true. Um, I think was afraid also for what his family would think. Um, so I always go to the worst scenario and not the best scenario. >> And what was the worst scenario in your mind? >> Him leaving me. >> Him leaving me. That was the worst scenario. And you didn't want him to leave you? So your in your mind the way to keep him is to not have this baby because you wanted to keep him around, right? So that's why you hadn't told him and that's why you hadn't told your parents. And I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. So, it seems like this was kind of your plan whether or not it happened that day or another day, but this is what what you had anticipated happening or the outcome being. [clears throat] You weren't going to tell anybody. You weren't going to let anybody know that this was happening. And whether it happened that day or another day, this was your intentions because you didn't want to lose Mark and you didn't want to upset your families. >> [clears throat] [cough] >> I don't want to put my Was that your intention? >> It would appear that way. >> Cuz in your mind, if you tell Mark, he's going to leave you. If you tell your parents, you're going to be ashamed. And if his family finds out, you don't know what they're going to say. And we're not here to judge you, but if that was your intention, I don't think it was lion. >> Had you seen a doctor at all? >> No. >> No. Had you been to a doctor prior to that? >> No. >> No. You didn't go to a regular doctor? You didn't have like a family doctor that you saw if you got sick or anything like that? >> Mhm. >> Regardless of whether she chose to give the baby up for adoption or leave it in the woods. Eastwood Richie would not want to go to a doctor and have the pregnancy on her medical record. >> No. Once we were older, the pediatrician um we didn't my parents didn't, you know, make us go to a doctor. >> You didn't have like an annual physical or anything like that? Did you play any sports in high school? >> No. >> No. You didn't do any kind of extracurriculars where you were required to? >> No. >> When's the last time you saw a doctor prior to the baby being born? What' you say? Oh, I was maybe 15 or 16. >> You're 15 or 16 was the last time you went to the doctor? >> Yeah. >> So, what would happen if you got sick? Like a cold or you got the flu? Where would you go? >> You didn't go anywhere. >> Didn't go anywhere. or if you need antibiotics or anything like that. Strep throat, ear infections. >> No, I don't recall going. >> Did you Did your family have healthcare insurance? >> I don't know. >> You don't remember? >> No, I I don't even know if my mother had healthcare now. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> Um I I don't know if we had healthcare then. So, you hadn't been to the doctor. Even when you found out that you were pregnant, you had never been to a doctor or anything like that. >> Did you think about seeing a doctor? >> No. >> Was it something that came up in your mind? >> The question is, what happened after the baby was born? How much time passed before Gail left the baby in the woods and what was going through her mind during that time? Detectives need to understand those moments to make sense of her account. >> Something that came up in your mind like maybe I should see a doctor. Obviously for a couple months you knew you were pregnant, >> right? Um I I didn't [clears throat] >> No, I didn't I didn't know who to go see or who to contact. [clears throat] >> So for basically the last 26 years, you've just kind of kept this bottled up inside. >> Yeah. to anybody that you've confided in or knew that you were pregnant or I >> have not. >> Nobody knew that you were pregnant. >> Nobody knew I was pregnant. >> You've never told anybody about it? >> Never told anyone about it. >> How about Mark? How How do you think he's going to deal with finding out what happened? >> I'm not sure. >> What do you think he's going to say about it? Not sure. >> How do you think he should go about finding out? >> Hoping that I can tell him. >> Okay. [clears throat] And what would you say to him? >> Think I would just go through what we just went through. Then tell him. >> And you're not sure how he's going to take that? >> Sure. He'll be upset. >> Do you think he deserved any any decision back then or any right to know and be a part of that decision that he made for the two? Back then I didn't I didn't know what to do. Today it's a whole different >> interesting that you may have made a different choice knowing what you know now, but do you think that it doesn't really answer the question? Do you think that he deserved a right to have a choice in that decision that you made for the two of you? >> Yeah. >> What do you think his choice would have been back then if if he would have known You have been accepting of it. [clears throat] Wasn't really given that opportunity, >> you know. Is it because he would have wanted you to keep it? >> No. >> Yeah. >> So you would do you think he would have wanted you to keep it? probably. [clears throat] >> So, is that why you didn't tell him? Cuz you didn't want to cuz you weren't sure what to do and you didn't want him to have you keep it cuz you weren't ready. >> Um, that kind of makes sense why you wouldn't. I don't [snorts] think it makes a whole lot of sense that he wouldn't that he wouldn't stick with you because he married you, you bought a house together, you had kids together. So, I think his intentions were that, but I don't think you were ready for a child at that time. And he was obviously a little bit older, so maybe >> he was more scared um about being a mom. >> No, no, I worked with children. And I I was okay having children and I think I was more concerned of his loving me. It's always been in the back of my mind. So, do you think he would have loved the job better or more his attention? >> No. No. No. I >> um It's really the only man that ever loves me. And I wasn't sure if we'd get married. Um, I was always afraid of of losing him. So, I didn't want to lose them. And I think back then my thought must have been that I would lose him cuz I didn't feel any better. >> This is where the medical evidence becomes crucial. Investigators explained that the baby had taken breaths, then ask whether she remembers any movement or sound. She says she doesn't. That answer doesn't tell us everything about what she experienced, but it leaves detectives with a very specific question they still need to resolve [clears throat] when we find out that we were at your parents house two weeks ago. Um, so my dad called me. So I was at home and I just went through whole anxiety and couldn't breathe. kind of been like that for the last two weeks off and on. >> Anxiety attacks. >> I wouldn't call them attacks, just hypertension, I guess. thinking about what was going to happen. >> Did you tell your dad when you spoke with him? >> Did they tell him what >> did Did he know? Did you express to him that that it was your child? >> I did not. >> Do you think he was able to determine that while he was on the phone with you when you when you had your anxiety strike? >> I don't think so. I was short cuz I was getting ready to leave for work. So then his memory of the details weren't the best. So, >> he's older. He's a little bit older and he was >> he is >> confused a little bit. >> Yes. He had a massive heart attack three years ago. And this is um so I just kind of let him ramble on like he does. He told him that I had to go because I had to leave for work. >> [snorts] >> So, right now, the only people that you've ever talked to about this are the two of us sitting here in this room. >> There's [clears throat] no one outside of this room you've ever spoken to about this or that would know about this. >> I have not. >> You said you can't recall if it was in the trunk for a week, if it was a week had gone by prior to when you went to the the youth retreat or just a few days. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Don't remember the time frame at all. >> Would anyone else have driven that vehicle? >> No. >> That was your your car. You owned that car. Okay. >> What kind of car was it? Do you remember? >> Um that time I had a Ford Tourist. >> What color was it? >> A tan. >> A tan Ford Taurus. >> Mhm. >> Was it Did you purchase the car or was it something your parents bought and it was just you were the only one who drove it? No, I'm pretty sure it was in my name. >> It was in your name. >> Yeah. >> So, this was 93. So, what year were that car then? Was it newer, older? >> It was older. It was a used car. >> I don't remember what year it was. >> Do you remember how long you had it for? Um, you still have it when your twins were born? >> Oh, no. >> No, >> no, no. Um, I don't even think I don't even know if I can remember if I had it when we were married. It wasn't a very good car. >> It was older. >> It was. >> What year did you get married? >> 94. October 1st. >> October of 94. You said you moved in what? September. >> September 93. >> And that's to the house that you currently live in now. >> Yeah. [snorts] During during your pregnancy, Mark never knew that you were pregnant. He he could never tell. Did you remain active with him during that time frame? >> I believe so. >> Yeah. And he could never tell that you're pregnant. It never came up like um >> he never said anything. I never >> keep her. We have a child together and it's it's kind of a way to but I I don't understand how how that would make you afraid to lose. You guys have had a relationship for several years. You're you're in a relationship. >> We we Yes. Yes. We We're in a relationship. Um, okay. It just I I was afraid I my father finding out um it's all I can think of. I was afraid of losing him. I was never ever ever. Gail points to her fear of telling her parents, especially her father, as part of what was happening in her life. That helps explain the pressure she describes, but it doesn't by itself explain what happened to the baby. The detectives are trying to understand both the fear she remembers and the choices she made. >> Felt certain that he loves me. I can understand. >> Never the prettiest girl. I wasn't skinny. I wasn't the smartest girl. I never thought highly of myself. >> Was there a concern? It could be somebody else's. [clears throat] No, [clears throat] >> I could see that if you're worried that, you know, maybe it was somebody else's and you're afraid to tell me. >> Not at all. >> I just really struggle with that seeing that, you know, just just in a few months you guys were moving in and getting married. >> Well, we weren't even looking at houses. >> I understand that. But but again it had to be coming up a conversation, you know, even if it's just occasionally. So it's you guys are building a relationship and been together. Yeah. But I took me a long time to feel truly loved by >> since we maybe you think we should know about Not really. No. >> No. What's kind of taken a little while is um we also had a search warrant for your husband's DNA too. Okay. Cuz we believe that he was the father as well. We had kind of connected some family members on his side of the family as well. Not not as um extensive as we had on your side of the family. We've actually been working your side of the family for quite some time. We have probably 13,400 people in a family tree that we amassed um you know working the the DNA back until we recently obviously made contact with your parents but we believe that he was you know related to the baby as well. So we made contact with him. He [snorts] had made some statements that were a little contradictory to what you had told us. Um had you ever been pregnant prior to this pregnancy? >> No. No, [clears throat] there's besides your three children that you have in this baby that we're talking about today, is there any other pregnancies or children or anything besides those four? >> No. >> Throughout throughout your whole, you know, life up to this moment, >> even prior to 93? >> No. because your husband indicated that he was aware that you were pregnant at some point and that you told him that you were going to a doctor and that you had told him that you were pregnant. We have other investigators that were out with us today and they're actually speaking with your husband right now and have been for quite some time. never told him I was pregnant that I was going to a doctor. >> He he's pretty adamant that he did know that he wasn't sure the time frame. He said it could have been around 92 93. It might have been a little bit, you know, a couple years prior, but he wasn't sure. But he was in fact aware. And you were telling him you were going to a doctor's office on a regular basis and seeing a doctor and he knew that you two were having a child. Is there any other pregnancy or any way that he knew about this? Maybe just don't remember. >> You were talking about a long time ago. >> If he knew, he never told me he knew. >> He said that you guys had talked about it and you had told him that you were going to see a doctor. Were you pregnant again prior to this baby we're talking about today and you never told him? >> No. >> So you for sure only been pregnant three times in your life? >> I had a miscarriage before the twins we were married then. >> Okay. [clears throat] When do you think that was? Oh. Um, I wanted I think it was 95. >> Okay. And he was obviously aware of that pregnancy or No. >> Yeah. >> Do you recall about how long you were pregnant? >> Um, pretty sure we heard I heard the heartbeat. >> Do you know what trimester that would have been? um since 95. Um I know I lost the baby in September. >> So 95 you think? >> Yes. >> Okay. Which doctor were you seeing at that time? >> Uh his name was Dr. Herman. >> Herman. And where was Mich's office is located >> at Hillrest. >> At Hillrest Hospital, >> I think he was across the street in those medical building. >> Okay. How many times did you come to see Dr. Herman >> for that pregnancy? And then um for the twins. >> Okay. But how many times did you seen him for that pregnancy specifically? >> The the first one? Mhm. [clears throat] >> The one that you had a that you lost? >> The miscarriage. >> Yes. Um, >> here's the tension in her explanation. She says she was afraid of losing Mark. Yet, the detectives point out that they had talked about marriage and having children. Those two things don't automatically cancel each other out. But they do leave an important question. What specifically made telling him feel impossible to her at the time? >> Two or three. >> Two or three appointments you had with him? >> Yeah. And was he aware that he had the miscarriage? >> Yes. The doctor. >> Yes. That was a health press when he had the miscarriage. >> You were in the hospital when it happened. Yeah. >> So that one is documented. I >> believe so. Yeah. >> Well, if you're in the hospital, it should be. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And that was 95ish. You said September of 95. >> Yeah. >> But you weren't sure how long you were, how far along you were? Um maybe two months two two and a half to three. >> So most likely still in the first trimester. >> Yeah. >> Was there ever a time prior to the incident we're talking about today that you ever thought you could have been pregnant? You said that you uh [clears throat] you and your husband did you liked him when you were 16? Did you guys date a little bit when you were 16? >> We did. >> What uh what caused you guys to separate? You said you separated as well. >> Didn't didn't ask me out anymore. >> Okay. So, you went on like a couple dates or were you guys kind of, >> you know, exclusively seeing each other? >> Oh, yeah. No, just a couple dates. >> On a couple dates. Mhm. >> Okay. >> You guys have like an argument or a disagreement over something specific? >> He was never called to ask me out again and then I reached out to him >> after a period of time. >> And how long was that period of time? >> Oh, I I don't know. I I was 17. Right. >> What made you What made you reach out to him? >> Well, I liked him. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> I was curious if he'd go back out with me again. >> You said obviously during the time around this event and before that you were you were sexually active with with your husband now, your boyfriend at the time. When when were you guys first active? Um, not until maybe 18. >> When you were 18? >> Yeah, I think so. Yeah. >> So, was it the second time that you guys had started dating again? >> Yes. >> Okay. [clears throat] Did they tell you what what caused you to have a miscarriage? Was there anything like were you having some type of a medical issue or >> No, I just started bleeding during the night. >> Okay. And you got taken to a hospital. Then they took >> Mark took me to a hospital. >> Mark took you to a hospital and got crushed. >> Did you disclose during that pregnancy that you had been pregnant prior? >> No. >> No. Did they ask you that? >> No. >> No. They never asked you if you had previous pregnancy any kind of doctor's paperwork. Normally when you go to a doctor and you said you hadn't been to a doctor previously, right, >> for many years. So normally they make you fill out some, you know, kind of intake paperwork. I probably filled out paperwork. >> So I I would think that that was on there. You know, any previous pregnancies, especially when you go to see a, you know, a gynecologist or >> something along those lines that, you know, they would ask you. >> Yes. >> You know, if you had previous pregnancies, previous you know, times that you lost babies. Um, so I would think that was on there, but you don't it was or it wasn't or you don't recall? >> I I don't recall. it. Um, it could have been. I I don't >> But you don't remember if you would have thought it out accurately or if you would have lied about that about the previous pregnancy that you had. >> Well, if it was on there, I probably didn't mention it. >> So, you probably would have lied. Correct. Is that fair to say if it was on there? >> Yes. >> Okay. Have you ever gone back to the the area where you dropped the the bag with the baby in it? >> I have not. >> Have you ever tried to find the area again? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. But you've been out at camp since then, right? Cuz your kids went there, I think. >> Um and I think Do your kids work there, Richie? >> Yes, I have two that are working there this summer. >> What are they doing there? My son is doing maintenance. And when Courtney is done with her first round of internship at a daycare um in Geneva, then she'll go out and um she's kind of um program manager, I guess, is a good way to explain it. You've been out to the camp since since this incident, correct? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. How does that make you feel when you go out to it? >> Does it bother you? >> I just go to camp. [clears throat] >> But obviously, you know that you left left your child, you know, just in a in a very close proximity to that camp. >> I I don't remember where, >> but obviously you were at the camp and you drove from there, so it was somewhere close by. That doesn't >> Yeah. Kindle those those memories or >> It hadn't. No. >> No. It's something you just not gone to that camp at all. >> Well, it hadn't. >> Did you ever wonder what happened or think about I wonder what happened or >> I think I did for a while after. >> Um but then I never heard anything. So, I think it just had three kids that I was raising and [clears throat] involved with. You you said you were obviously still with your husband during during the pregnancy. You stayed together and you said he was not aware of it. What measures did you take to hide that pregnancy? You said you were still intimately involved with him. How were you able to keep him from knowing you were pregnant? >> Well, like I said, I I was always heavy set. Um, so I don't recall really showing or like other than do um >> did you get a lot of weight? Do you remember? >> No, I don't think so. >> Yeah, >> I I don't I think I probably stayed about the same as I always was. Always over 200, 230 [clears throat] >> in weight. >> You know, every woman's different in different pregnancies. Sometimes you gain weight, sometimes you don't. >> Yeah. So every time it could be different. Did you take any other steps to try to hide it from Mark? >> No. >> No. Cuz obviously you don't want him to know, >> right? >> But you didn't have to do anything else to keep it from him. He just >> I don't think so. >> [clears throat] >> Since this has all been kindled up in the last two weeks, what what's going on with you? >> So far, detectives have been trying to piece together what happened in 1993. Now, they're comparing Gail's account with what her husband has told them and what they've learned from the DNA investigation. They're looking at the bigger picture, trying to see if her story matches everything they've uncovered. >> What? What is this? What are you feeling right now? Um ashamed, embarrassed. Um >> I thought about taking a bunch of pills today. >> When did you think about that today? when when you saw us or earlier before that? >> No, all day. >> All day. >> I woke up with that feeling. >> Are you still thinking about that now? >> Um, so when I was got myself to go to work, still had it in the back of my mind that I would do that. >> And what would the goal of that behavior be? To end your life? >> Yes. >> Okay. As we told you earlier, Gail, we don't want to see that. We're not here to judge you. >> No, there's a lot of other people judging you right now. And >> like who? Who is judging you right now? >> Well, myself. >> Yeah. God that my husband knows. Oh, that is our concern at this point is your safety not only from yourself but from other people. Do you how do you think Mark will react to this? I mean, are you concerned that he has he ever been violent with you? >> No, never. >> No. He's been a wonderful husband and father. Couldn't have asked for a better person in my life. And that's why I struggled so much with trying to tell him or [snorts] >> what about his family? Are they >> Oh [clears throat] god. Can we imagine? >> We have a wonderful family. >> But how do you think they're going to react? Would you be concerned for your safety from their family? >> Not my safety. No. [clears throat] >> No. I just think I'll be spoken to again. >> Where do you think the safest place for you would be right now? We're not so sure it'll be back with Mark. We're not saying it it's not safe, but you know, we're not sure how he's going to deal with that. This is something obviously you've known this and battled with it for 26 years. This is something that has been literally dropped in his lap today out of nowhere. And I I don't know how he's going to react to that. We are concerned for him and for you. >> We have no intentions of running out of here telling anybody what what the crux of our conversation was today. However, you have to understand over the last 26 years, this was a very big case. And and and in that regard, I don't know how you didn't know about it. There's been news stories, newspaper article, a news story that some of the original investigators uh did on the news. It was probably a 12, 15 minute um article that they did on the news. So, this is something that, you know, was and is something today very big in the community here in Jarvis County. There's people that, like we said, you know, donated clothes, they donated to burial expenses. >> There's a headstone. >> Yeah, there's a headstone in a memorial. They they they did a ceremony and and did a headstone memorial and uh your child is is referred to as Job's baby because so many members of the community donated different things for your child [clears throat] and that and they maintain that that grave stuff. So um this is something that is very big in the community and with that being said um you know we are concerned for your welfare and you know what is the best place for you. So where do you think the best place would it be with your sister maybe? >> Probably not. >> No. Why why do you think that? >> We have not told her. We did have a search warrant for her DNA as well, but we did not execute that today. So, we have not made contact with her. We've only made contact with you and your husband today. >> Where do you think you'd be saved? Are you still having thoughts or or considerations of ending your life or harming yourself? >> I guess now that it's all out on the table, I guess probably not. >> Do you feel better that it's all out on the table? >> In some there's got to be some burden left off you, you know, something that you've kept in for 26 years. It's only been something that I've known. I mean, sometimes a lot of burdens. >> What other burdens have you dealt with? >> Growing up wasn't easy in my house. >> What is that? >> My father was an alcoholic for 16 years of my life. >> Is that easy to deal with? >> No. He is verbally abusive. So when I said I never thought highly of myself, that's where that comes from [clears throat] >> from dealing with alcohol. And speaking to a lot of your family, I understand even though your dad was adopted, that was something that was, you know, his parents were were not known to be great parents. >> I didn't know that [clears throat] >> cuz you know your father and his siblings um when your grandmother passed, they were given up for adoption. Your father was only 18 months old, I believe, and he was given up from the option. Is there a place that that you can be safe tonight or that you would feel safe? >> I don't know. >> Am I allowed to see Mark? Um, I don't know how it's going to have to check on that. >> Yeah, I'm not going to tell you yes or no. That's again, we don't know how Mark is taking this >> because we we haven't seen him yet. He's not here right now. And and obviously, if he's highly agitated, I don't want to expose you to any type of risk of harm. >> Our concern and our responsibility is your safety at this point. And where is the safest place to be? not only from other people but from yourself. In in talking to you, you've already had thoughts of harming yourself. >> Today, I'm going to venture to guess was not the first time that you consider taking those pills. >> It was >> It was the first time. Did you Did you consider harming yourself any days prior to today? >> No. >> What What triggered that today? Um, just thoughts in my head. >> What were those thoughts? >> Trying to spare family embarrassment, shame, and Don't want my kids to see me. >> Your kids still love you, Gail. >> It's not going to change your life for you. >> You're still their mother. >> Notice what the detective is comparing. Gail's explanation that she feared telling Mark and the relationship she describes as moving toward marriage and a family. He's not treating that contrast as proof on its own. He's trying to see if her explanation fits the facts or if there's something important she still hasn't explained. >> What was it specifically about today that changed though? Cuz you've kind of known for probably close to two weeks that this day had to be coming, >> right? I knew that what you just said here and I don't know. I just going over in my head what what to do, how to tell Mark. >> Did you tried to tell him in the last couple weeks? Um, I've tried in my head to think how to tell him. Yes. Like I said, never been good with confrontation. I've gotten better over the years. But ultimately didn't want to do it just because I don't want my kids coming home and finding me. You need to think about your kids cuz it's going to harm them even worse. What's done is done and the mistakes you made. But to do something like that is only going to hurt them even worse. Have you ever see seek any other mental health professionals or seen counselors or anything? Alanon, AA, anything like that to deal with some of the issues from your father? >> No. in previous >> was to be spoken of. >> It was just >> Have you ever previously had thoughts of harming yourself? >> Yeah. >> No, it's never been an issue. >> What is it about your sisters that you don't think will be safe? >> Supposed to be safe, but her husband's a police officer. >> Some I don't. I mean, do you get along with him? >> Yes, I get along with them fine. >> Do you think he's gonna I mean, is there a concern with him or I mean, he's still your brother-in-law? >> I know, but I don't want to >> take this into their hands. >> And you don't think your baby safe at your parents house? Well, they probably would, but they don't know yet. >> We haven't told them. I don't know if they've put it together. I don't think that they have. Is there anywhere that you could think of that you would be safe? >> Guess I don't want to take my mess into anyone else's house. Well, as we told you earlier, our intent was not to put you in jail tonight, >> but we do have a duty for your safety as well, >> Gail, if we if we had to talk to to a mental health professional, would you be willing to do that? Would you speak with someone if we were able to find someone to talk with you? Sure. >> Let's see if we can get something set up. Yeah. We We have genuine concerns for your safety at this point. >> You may not think so, but we do. So, we need to see if we can get something worked out for you. So, if there's anything you could think of, I understand that you don't want to bring your issues into somebody else's house, and I respect that, but we also don't know. I mean, your kids don't know. Your husband just found out. We don't know how it's going to go. >> [clears throat] >> Okay. When was the last time you ate today? >> So, half an hour before. >> We'll see if we can. You want me You want me to see if I can hand you something to eat? >> Well, we'll see if we can get you something and then it's your choice if you want to do it. Okay. >> They need to then detectives ask Gail if something similar had happened before. She admits there was another pregnancy and describes giving birth again, then leaving the baby in a garbage bag. Now, detectives are looking into a second incident, trying to find out what happened and how it connects to the case that brought them to Gail in the first place. >> Give us a little bit of time to to find someone that we know is going to be able to ensure your safety. Okay. Okay. Um, the last thing that we we we feel like we we need to talk about with you is the fact that obviously you know now we had a search warrant for your DNA. All right. And we have your DNA and that is not only going to be compared into the the the child but also into the database. And there are many unfortunately other cases out there and your your DNA is going to be in the system that's going to be compared to all those cases and now is the time if there is anything else that you need to get it out there. You've come, you know, uh clean with this what's happened here. You've told us what hap what's happened. um if there is anything else that your DNA is going to link you to um because unfortunately there are other baby cases that happened and those are still open and then there's other homicide cases here in Jaga County and in Asheville County Lake and now that we have your DNA it's going to be compared to all those cases it's going to be in that system. So, if there is any other issues out there that we need to talk about, now is the time to do it because I'm not getting warm and fuzzy that this isn't the only time that there may be some more times and it's going to be compared to all those other cases, Gail. you know, last thing you want to do is say that you came in here and be honest with us because, you know, part of what happens is, you know, truth and sentencing and showing genuine remorse and coming clean. And if there are other issues, now's the time that we need to talk about. And I truly believe that you know that there is other issues and we're here to listen. We're not here to judge you. We're not yelling and screaming. But you know, and I know this isn't the only time that there's more times that this has happened. And now is the time that you need to tell us about those feel. How many other times has this happened? >> One other time. >> One other time. And when was that? Was it before or after this child? >> Before. >> Before. Is that what Mark was talking about that 1991? Cuz he he had told our investigators in 1991 that there was another pregnancy that he was aware of. >> I didn't tell him. >> Okay. >> I was pregnant. [clears throat] >> So, may have known. >> Eastwood Richie is still unwilling to admit she told Mark about either of the pregnancies, but he clearly knew more than what she has told the detectives. >> When was his previous pregnancy? >> Probably about that time. >> About the 90 1999 time. How How old were you at the time? Would you remember that? Would it be easy to remember? >> Oh, 20 21. >> Okay. >> 20. They explain that situation to us. >> Tell us what happened. Is there Mar's child as well? >> They did. Okay. >> And tell us what happened on that on that situation. Um, pretty much the same situation other than um >> or that child. Do you know you don't know if it's a boy or girl? >> I don't. >> You know, >> I did not. >> Did you ever think about any names for these children? >> No. >> No. >> You didn't want to? because you have one. >> Yes, mom. [clears throat] >> Okay. So, that's two. So, again, your DNA is not going to be I mean, it's going to tell us. So, >> I understand. >> Um, and it's going to, like you said, unable mark as it did in our case. Um, what other ones are there? >> There are no others. >> There are none others. You're positive with that? >> Yes. Okay. Any other issues that think you think are going to come up when your DNA hits the system here in the next few days? >> Any other crimes or criminal acts or >> No. >> No. It goes into a big database. >> After 26 years, DNA evidence helped investigators identify Jouga's child. But during Gail Eastwood Richie's interrogation, they learned about another baby and began asking more questions. What began with one child's identity led detectives to a second case. >> It goes into a big database just like fingerprints, you know. So, it's called COS. Um, and that's where your DNA will go and uh um it will, you know, be checked against any other, you know, crime victims, crime, you know, evidence that was collected, suspect stuff. Nothing to anyone else. No, >> just these two children. All right, hang on one second. Let me see what he's doing here on the aerials and we're going to figure out how to get you over there and get you checked out. >> So, are these the medical buildings? >> Yeah, if you would have I mean you can see where Brush Breaks off of Richmond and these are orthopedic and pediatric buildings and >> um those are the buildings. So, okay. >> Mhm. [clears throat] >> And I understand this may have looked different, you know, in 1990 911. [snorts] >> You said as you came up Rush from Richmond, the building on the left, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, that would be >> because this is the drive that I'm >> Okay. um trying to get this. >> So when you you went to the right side of the drive as you would be entering off the right hand sides were you? >> Mhm. >> So like in this area here is where >> Okay. Can you just initial by that dot for me? >> Okay. I'll be right back. Okay. Yeah. [clears throat] bunch of people who like to eat it. You obviously don't have to, but there's some some food for you. >> Thank you. Sorry, it's been a little while. We're going to take you over to the hospital and have you talk to a mental health official or professional. Is there anywhere else you can think of that you that you would be safe from? There anywhere you think you would be safe? Sure, there's plenty of places, but I don't want [clears throat] >> Well, we're going to take you over there and have them check you out and make sure you're okay. And uh uh you're you're willing to go talk to mental health, right? >> Okay. Why don't you grab yourself really happened here? Listen closely to his answers. Is there something in his story that doesn't quite add up or was it genuinely an accident? I want to hear your take. Drop your theory in the comments. And for more real interrogation footage, hidden details, and psychological breakdowns, like the video and subscribe to Verdict Interrogation.