Okay, so is that pretty much the meat and potatoes of of what we're talking about is you went in to go shopping and you didn't find any good deals and then you left and that was it? >> Basically, yeah. >> Okay. I think I think you and I both know that there's a it's a little bit more than that. >> Do you Do you want to start over? You want to start over and >> [clears throat] >> tell Detective English why you're here or do you want to continue going this >> No, I'm just stupid >> stupid route? >> No, I don't want to be a stupid route. >> Okay. So, why don't you start over and tell Detective English why you know you're here today. >> Okay, well >> He came in voluntarily. He drove himself. Everything they are about to show him was collected before he arrived. >> You went back and you did it again. Um And I have a whole 'nother list of witnesses that saw that. In fact, that's how we found out who you were after that point. Because there was a an employee who watched you and followed you throughout the store and watched you and got in after you left and got in your truck. We got your plate. We ran your picture by everybody in these two incidences so far and everybody without hesitation picked you out in this photo lineup as the man who did these things. So, it's not the only time you've done it. Not only that, I ran a criminal history on you. You've been arrested for it before, correct? >> Well, yeah. >> He denies the strongest word in every question and concedes the weaker one. So, they stop asking about the store. >> What do you prefer sexually? >> I I prefer females my own age. Not older, not younger, my age. >> Okay. So, then why why are clothing section for the little girls? >> Well, I'm not really sure about that. That That kind of thing doesn't do anything for me. >> Tell me about this fascination. I mean, how old are we talking? What's the youngest? >> [clears throat] >> What do you mean? >> What's the youngest you've ever fantasized about? What's the youngest age of girl that you've ever fantasized about? >> I don't know. Six, seven. >> The question was about one afternoon. His answer reaches back further than anyone asked. >> Okay, too many times or how many times in the last 30 years that you have fantasized about little girls from the ages of 6 years old on up. How many times? >> Oh, 30, 40 times. >> And And I The point I'm getting to is this kind of stuff, it doesn't just happen. You got to work your way up to something like this. You know what I mean? Like, it starts somewhere and it starts small. I know it. Okay? And then it gets bigger. You get bolder. You didn't just start touching yourself on that day in front of people. You worked your way up to it. And I'll bet you to say that you probably been doing it for a while and you only got caught this time. >> I just You know, I get so damn disgusted with myself over that. Uh >> So, you know it's wrong, but you still do it. Is that correct? >> He is not under arrest. He drove himself here from another city, and the only thing he has been told is that there are two sides to every story. >> I'm Detective Bagwell. This is Detective Garcia. >> Hello. >> How was your trip? >> Not a problem. >> Did you bring a identification with you, Michael? >> Yes. >> You came down on your own, correct, Michael? Came You came down here on your own. Yes. Correct. Okay. Um and you know why you're here today? What we're here to discuss? Okay. Um The reason why you're here is because there are two sides to every story. Okay. And uh just so I'm clear, why why are we here talking? So [clears throat] I know that you know what we're talking about. >> Oh, because the the incident there at uh believe Walmart. >> Okay. Can you explain a little further what incident? >> [clears throat] >> The rights are read before a single question about the store. Everything he says from this point forward was said after he was told he could stop. >> Well, before we go any further into into this line of questioning, and because you can't get out without having a special key card that they assigned to us, I'm going to read you your Miranda rights, okay? Um doesn't necessarily mean that you're under arrest, okay? Just that you're not free to leave without us being able to let you go. And because you're being here and held and asked questions, I'm just going to read you your Miranda, okay? Uh so you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to a presence of an attorney to assist you prior to any questioning, and to be with you during any questioning if you so desire. If you can't afford an attorney, you have the right to have an attorney appointed to you prior to any questioning. You understand those rights so far? Okay. And are you willing to answer any my questions here today? Okay. >> For 4 minutes, he is a retired man being polite to strangers. Nothing in his voice separates these answers from the ones that come an hour later. >> Do you live alone or who do you live with? >> know. By myself. >> Married, single, divorced, widowed? >> I'm divorced. [clears throat] And uh I've been living in Oregon for the last 43 years. And my mother and uh her husband are in their upper 80s. And their health is kind of failing, so I decided to get a little closer. >> And where did they live? >> They live in Riverside, California. >> Okay. So, if they live in Riverside, why like Havasu? >> Well, that was as close as I could get without going to California. Cuz I I didn't want to try to buy into California. >> There is a Walmart in the city where he lives. The detectives already know that, and they already know how many minutes he spent inside the one he drove to. >> See, he came to Walmart to buy some clothes. They don't sell clothes down at the Walmart in Havasu? >> Oh, well, yeah, they do. Yeah, yeah, you know, I go straight to the uh discount aisles and and see what they've got to offer there. >> Mhm. >> And uh >> So, what happened at Walmart? >> Well, I I was shopping around and uh couldn't find anything in the clothing. Uh couldn't find anything else that I was interested in. >> They let the story finish before they touch it. The photograph comes out only after he has committed himself to bargains and disappointment. >> Is that your picture, Michael? >> Yes. >> And that's the same picture on your driver's license. >> That's right. >> Okay. Mr. Bailey, I'm going to um I'm going to give you some really good advice right now. I've been here at Bullhead PD for 20 years and I've been a detective for the last 6 years. And uh it's in your best interest to tell the truth. Uh to take responsibility for your actions and uh don't sit here and act like you don't know what's going on. You know, because we really don't invite people into Bullhead PD that come to our Walmart and leave without buying anything. We don't have those restrictions that if you come to one of our stores that you have to make a purchase. So, I know that that uh that's [ __ ] okay? So, if you want to help yourself, you can be honest with Detective English here, you know? If you want to dummy up, then >> No, I don't want to dummy up. I want to I want to get this thing uh straightened out >> Okay. What kind of What kind of vehicle do you drive? >> Well, I've got uh a Saturn >> Okay. >> station wagon and I've got a Chevy Colorado pickup. >> Okay, and what color is it? >> Yeah, it's a silver gray. >> Okay. I don't know how good your eyes are. Does that look like your vehicle? Do you have a utility box in the back of your truck? >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Who's that? >> That's me. >> That's you. >> The discs have been sitting in front of him since he sat down. Nobody has opened them. He is now told in a single sentence what is on them. >> He explained to me yesterday that uh that uh they said that I was uh following people around and uh and he says that I was exposing myself. Well, I've never in my life exposed myself. I mean >> Really? >> maybe >> Really? >> clothing I had on was revealing. But as far as bare skin >> I can see that. Michael, listen. These discs right here are of you um exposing yourself and fondling yourself in the Walmart clothing section while you file followed a young girl around in that section. Okay? Is that an accurate statement? >> I yes, it would be. >> Okay. Um there was a lady who caught you, who saw you with your genitals exposed following her around No, I'm telling >> I've never had my genitals exposed. >> Okay. All right. >> That's [clears throat] a fact. I would never do that. >> Okay. But you were touching yourself. >> Well, that's true. And uh you know, the clothing I had on might have been a little revealing, but there was no exposure. >> The detective does not argue the point he has just won. He moves past it to the minutes on the store's clock and to what those minutes were for. >> Michael, cuz you were there for a total of about 15 to 17 minutes. So you weren't there shopping. Okay? You went there with one thing in mind. And maybe you didn't have it in mind. I don't know. Maybe it's just something that happened >> [clears throat] >> and you responded on it. But that's why you're here. You're here to explain that. So please tell me the truth. >> I had money with me and if I had have seen something that I would have bought >> You know what? I call [ __ ] I call [ __ ] You came to our Walmart in our city to do one thing. >> The license plate pulled a name and the name pulled a file. 1971, Eugene, Oregon. He has not been told they have it and he does not deny it. >> And back in 1971, you were arrested >> And and >> up in Oregon. >> Up in Oregon. >> Up in Eugene, right? >> In the In the Eugene area and it wasn't for it was a It was a uh a streaking back in the days when when that was kind of a popular thing to do and that's >> And so that makes it okay? That makes it okay now that you're walking around Walmart with your shorts pulled up to your [ __ ] neck so your junk hanging out? >> No, that's not right. >> Yeah. And then there was another occasion, right? In uh what was that other place in Oregon where you had another um incident with some uh indecency? Do you recall that? In Baker? >> A second Oregon county is named. The detective offers him all day, coffee and lunch, and then walks him back to the store he came from. >> You know what, Michael? We've got all day long. All day long to sit here to for you to jog your memory. So, I got coffee. I'll bring my lunch in if I need to. >> Just tell us what's going on. You went into the store on April 21st. This is the day of the pictures that I showed you. Let's start from when you showed up. You get out and you go into the store. Just tell me what happens. [music] Tell me about your day or that that moment in the uh store. >> I just uh wandering around, you know? I wasn't I don't know how to explain it. >> The question is about clothing. The answer is about desire, blood pressure, and 10 years without it. A defense he has not been asked to make yet. >> Do you wear underwear or do you go commando? >> Uh [clears throat] I wear underwear. >> You didn't wear them that that day though, did you? >> Okay. >> Okay. So, why didn't you Why when you left your home that day you didn't put underwear on? Because you knew what you intended to do. Am I right? Michael, all day long this is all I do is deal with people that commit sex crimes. And you know what? You can make this either easy on yourself or you can have me on your ass. And I'm going to tell you what, you don't want that. >> No. >> So, get your mind right here and start start talking the truth. >> [clears throat] >> You left your home that morning, you put on those blue gym shorts, and you didn't wear underwear. >> Yeah, I'll I'll tell you uh for the last 10 years my blood pressure's just been spiked like crazy. And so I've had almost no sexual desire for the last 10 years. And every once in a while I just get a little tingle of a feeling >> Mhm. >> sexually and uh even though it's like uh those two incidents were the only two times I came down here since I've been here. I've been here over a year. >> So what kind of situation gets that tingle going? Cuz the pattern that I'm seeing here is younger girls. >> Well >> [clears throat] >> I I'm in the market I'm looking for a for a woman my own age. >> Okay, but you weren't looking for a woman your own age that day. >> Well, if you know, I'm >> How old are you? >> 66. >> 66. I'm 54, so we're pretty close to the same age. You know what would not turn me on to see you walking down the dairy aisle with your junk hanging out. So, that's not how you get a woman. >> No, it's not. >> You might want to check match.com because I don't think that's one of their dating ideas. >> No. >> He is offered a chance to prove a negative and takes it twice without hesitation. It is the fastest, flattest answer he gives in the whole interview. >> Do you have a home computer? >> I I've got one, but I don't have an internet. >> When was the last time you had internet access? >> Never have. >> You've never had it? Then what's the purpose of having a computer? >> Well, I keep ready to get on it. >> What's the purpose of having a computer if you don't have internet access? >> I just I had a computer in Arizona. Uh I've had it for about 10 years and it's been kind of down for the last couple. I never did get it on. >> How much child pornography do you have in your home in Lake Havasu? >> That That's something I'm not into. >> Okay. Well, let's let's let's do this, then, Michael. If if we got a hold of the detectives in just to throw just to throw that all out to prove that you're you don't have that stuff on your computer, would you be willing if I called Detective Slack down in Havasu, the detective that went out and talked to you, would you be willing to forfeit your computer so that she can forensically search that computer? >> Absolutely. >> To make sure that you have nothing in there. >> Absolutely. >> So, you have no child pornography in your home. >> I do not and I'm not into that. >> But, you're into coming into Bullhead City, going to the Walmart, going to the little girl section. You didn't even go so far as to go into the to the teen section or the junior section or the women's section. You went straight over to where the little girl's size one to size six X. Michael, that's where you went. >> Four Walmarts get named and one of them is invented. The point is not geography. The point is that he passed the near store to reach the far one. >> The the the point is is that the Walmart in Havasu, the Walmart in Kingman, the Walmart in Timbuktu, the Walmart here are all the same. So, there really was no reason for you to have to come all the way up to Bullhead to shop for some kind of deals, okay? And it's not like you were out there shopping and then all of a sudden because you haven't had any sexual desire and you felt it come and you you felt the sexual desire come up and you had to react on that. That isn't the case. You came specifically to the Walmart in Bullhead City for a reason. Because you could have done all that stuff in Havasu. And you could have had all that stuff happen to you and all those feelings happen to you in Havasu, but you didn't go there. That shows me intention. You came here for a reason. Am I pretty close? >> [clears throat] >> Oh, let me have that pencil out of your pocket, please. Do you have any other sharp objects or anything? Got a knife or anything? Okay. What we're going to do right now is uh we're going to let you sit here and think about it because I want to come back in and have you start telling the truth rather than sitting here and bullshitting us. All right? I'm going to call a spade a spade. You're lying to us. Don't appreciate it. So, you take a moment. You take a You You're trying to be truthful. There's a difference between trying to be truthful and being truthful. I'm going to give you 5 minutes. When we come back, be truthful. Don't try, be. >> The pencil comes out of his pocket. 5 minutes. The door closes and the camera does not go with them. >> Oh, man, I'm screwed. crying. >> The interview restarts as far from the store as it can get. Retirement, heavy equipment, a move south. Then one sentence turns it back around. >> And you were retired? >> Yes, Michael. >> What What did you do for work when you were working? >> I worked in the construction. In the union, something like that? This is like heavy equipment or Okay. When did you retire? >> I think about 6 years ago. >> Okay. And were you still in the Oregon around that time? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you've been down here since you retired pretty much? >> Uh no, I just moved here a year ago February. >> Okay. And you've lived in that address on Alwilda Street ever since then? >> I moved in a year May 1st a year from last May. >> [snorts] >> So, you had some time to think about things. You've never done anything like this before. Of course you have. >> You know, for the last 10 years I've uh You know, with this high blood pressure and uh you know, I've been impotent now. My wife left me 10 years ago. Well, I was married to her 20 years. >> He answers the Oregon question with a ranch, an acreage, and a creek. The county he is actually being asked about takes four attempts to reach. >> Where's Haines, Oregon? Cuz you lived there for a while, didn't you? >> Oh, yeah. I lived there for 28 years. >> What'd you do in Haines? >> [clears throat] >> I had 15 acres up on Rock Creek. It's like where I had the little equestrian ranch up there. >> What'd you do to get in trouble up in Haines? When you got arrested? >> In Haines? >> Mhm. >> Oh, well. >> [clears throat] >> Baker City is just 10 miles away. >> Mhm. That's all in Is that in Union County, Baker City? >> No, that's Baker >> That's in Baker County. Okay, well, what did you do in Union County? >> In Oh, in Union County? That's with Grant. >> But you were living in Haines, right? When you got in trouble in Union County. >> Right. >> What would you do then? >> [clears throat] >> Let's see. I was uh walking through a clothing store. And uh There was a lady who was passing me. I I touched her on the backside. >> Mhm. >> And that I'll tell you, I don't touch people, but uh that time I touched her on the backside, and I didn't think I offended her, but I did. >> A clothing store, a woman walking past. He describes the contact himself, and then tells them in the same breath that he is not a man who touches people. They tell him plainly that nothing he is about to say is new to them. The file was read before he was ever invited in. >> See, Michael, we don't bring people in here and talk to them unless we've done our homework. So, we know about that. >> Okay. >> We know about your indecent exposure. We We know all of this stuff, Michael. So, you can't come in and [ __ ] us. >> Your domestic assault kidnapping charge that you got. That was >> When you wouldn't [clears throat] let your wife call the police? Remember that one? >> Yeah, I remember that one. And then, you know, I'll talk about it. There's another situation that uh it got kind of turned around. I mean, they called it kidnapping. Uh My wife uh said that she was going to take off and uh she was going to go down to a and spend the night at uh abuse woman >> Um shelter? >> Shelter. >> Mhm. >> And I never laid a hand on that woman and I you know, I mean, we weren't getting along real well, but uh that was her way of dealing with it and uh when she started to leave I jumped into the driveway and she and uh And I really don't know why I did that. I I did it cuz I wanted >> What I'm hearing is >> they wanted her to leave. >> What I'm hearing, Michael, is everything Everything is really been turned around and it's really not your fault and remember the advice I gave you when you first came in here is to take responsibility for your actions and things will go a lot easier because the more we do this little dance the more pissed off I'm getting. >> Okay. >> And I'm not going to be a very dance partner for you very much longer. All right? >> The kidnapping becomes a misunderstanding. The driveway becomes something he cannot explain. Every item in the record arrives already softened. He is wearing underwear now. The detective points at that and at the one morning he was not and calls it a decision rather than an accident. >> You told us that you're looking for a woman your own age, yet you're in the little girl section. Walking through Walmart, you leave home that morning, you put your blue gym shorts on and you don't wear any underwear. And you did that for a reason because I'd venture to say you have underwear on right now. Am I correct? >> Well, I always got underwear on. Yeah. >> Until you decide that you want to come and expose your genitals, that's when you don't wear underwear. Am I correct? Is that a fair statement or not? >> Like I say, I I just I haven't had any of those kind of desires at all. I've been uh >> Up until you decide to come to the Bullhead City Walmart, then you have those desires. Then you don't wear your underwear. Then you expose your genitalia. My good >> You paint a picture like it's something that happens to you on the at the spur of the moment. And your actions on that day are completely contrary to to exactly that. You know, you were not just shopping and you didn't feel a little tingle in your genitals and you didn't feel like you had to rub on them or anything because of that. You came all the way to this Walmart for a reason. Okay? Cuz you could have done all that stuff at the You could have been shopping over at the Walmart in Havasu. So, let's just cut the [ __ ] You know what I mean? >> The question is asked and then nothing happens for 26 seconds. The silence is his answer arriving. >> So, let's back up cuz we want to understand I want to understand. The courts are going to want to understand what drives a person to do something like that. And if maybe they have a little insight on what's going on in your head, it may help them when they make their decisions. May help you. I don't know. So, let's back up. Where does this start? How long has this been going on? >> Oh, well, I guess quite a while. I mean, it does you know it's like I was married for 20 years and you know, unfortunately, that didn't work out. Uh >> What's your sexual preference, Michael? >> What he offers instead is a marriage that ended. The detective does not take it and asks the question the marriage was there to cover. There is more video than he has been shown. The detective says so once, gives no specifics, and then stops talking about evidence altogether. >> Do you think I'm really blowing smoke up your ass and I'm telling you what I've seen in these videos. And that's not the only video. I got more. Okay? From the other times that you've gone in and done this. Okay? So, that that doesn't even that doesn't even make sense. It starts somewhere. There's a fascination. Okay? Am I wrong? Somewhere there's a fascination. It starts with the fascination, correct? So, let's be honest. Tell me about that. Help me understand. >> You know, for for the most part, I feel like I'm a normal human being. You know, I I mean it. I I do have a fascination. Uh uh uh >> Give me a little insight on that. What do you mean fascination? Tell me about the fascination. >> Well, I found a size uh different things and uh you know, it's not necessarily uh younger women. It's you know. >> You know, I can see the way girls look these days. You can't tell anymore how old they are. >> Yeah. >> But I completely understand it the physiological attraction to something that's good looking. You know? So, I'm not looking at you like you're a monster. I'm trying to understand what's going on. But in order for me to do that, you have to paint a picture for me. Now, I think we're getting close to the truth. I think there may be something going on with the younger girls. So, let's just be honest with that. We're here now. We're here now. Let's deal with this. It's not going away until we deal with it. So, >> Well, this is true. I do have a fascination with with younger girls, but that's as far as it goes. >> Okay. >> You know, I I would never uh rape anybody. >> [clears throat] >> And you know what? Let me just be Let me just explain something. We're not talking about rape. We're talking about a little uh indecent exposure. >> Right. >> claim. Okay, it's not the crime of the century, okay? But, we got to get to the root of of the situation so that we can figure this out. So, tell me about this fascination. I mean, how old are we talking? What's the youngest? >> [clears throat] >> What do you mean? >> What's the youngest >> He draws the line himself at a crime nobody has accused him of. And the detective moves it back to the one he is actually sitting here for. The hook carried the answer to the question being asked here. Six or seven. Four words. No pause. And nobody had to ask him twice. >> But I don't you know, I mean Over the last years I I I've uh You know, I'm getting away from all that. >> And how many years we talking? How long have you had How long can you think back that you've had these kind of feelings or >> Well, I guess we're about back, there he is. Okay. >> And would I would I have been pretty close by saying that it starts out small and it builds up to something like this. It's not like all of a sudden you went out and you started doing this kind of stuff. Where does it start? It starts from the fascination. We discussed that. And then where does it go from there? Pictures? >> No. No, never never have. Not into any kind of child porn or any of those kind of things. Cross to God's truth. >> So if I went and searched your house, I wouldn't find any uh child pornography or erotica or anything, pictures of little girls in underwear from the JCPenney catalog or anything like that. Okay. >> No. No. >> So this is a fascination you've had since you've had for about 30 years. >> Well, yeah. That'd be fair enough. >> When you went to Walmart Let me just start off. When you went when you went to Walmart on the on the 20th Okay. When you were wearing the blue shorts um in those pictures that I showed you and your truck was in the parking lot. Was that in your Was that your intention for coming to this Walmart here to act on those fantasies? >> Well, I was coming up to this area to go over to Izod's. That is what was my plan and buy some slacks, okay, which I did. And the last time I was here, I also went up there trying to buy the same kind of slacks. They're the Izod golfing And uh they didn't have my size. First time I went in there, I bought two pair. >> The detective asks for a total and offers him three doors. More than five, more than 10, too many to count. He walks through none of them. >> How many times have you exposed yourself or masturbated while watching a young female child in the last 30 years? More than five? More than 10? Too many to count? >> Um, no. >> Cuz you've never been caught, have you? This is the first time you've been caught, am I correct? Or have you been caught before? >> No. >> Okay, so this is your first time. >> Basically, yeah. >> And so, how many times would you say that you have fondled yourself or masturbated or exposed yourself in the last 30 years while you're fantasizing about girls from 6 years old on up? >> Well, it's been a few times. But those feelings have been going away. >> Okay, well, I'm glad that those feelings have been going away, but what's a few times? It sounds to me like if you're having to think that hard about it, it's it's too many times. Too many times, Michael? >> Yes. >> And did you do that in Oregon? I mean, because that's where you lived. How many times have you been to the Bullhead City Walmart and done this and not got caught until this time. >> Twice. >> Twice? Twice before you got caught? >> No. >> So, this was the first time? >> No, this is the first two times I've been there. >> Okay. What about the Walmart or any other clothing store in Lake Havasu City? No. And the reason for that is you thought that you could come up here and not get caught because you drive a vehicle that doesn't have Arizona license plates on it. >> I normally drive my Saturn. My Saturn's >> Well, two times up here though, you drove your pickup truck, right? >> Right. >> And that pickup truck does not have Arizona license plates on it, does it? So, you I think I think a reasonable person would say is that you thought you would never get caught because you're driving a vehicle that doesn't have Arizona license plates on it. >> my mind. >> Really? >> I I always drive my Saturn. >> No, you don't always drive your Saturn because on at least on two occasions you drove your truck. >> because my Saturn first the first time it was down with with plugged injectors. And then the second time I thought I had plugged injectors again because it behaved exactly the same way. And I didn't know exactly what I was going to do about it, so I parked it for 2 months. >> So, you drove your truck up here that has the Oregon plates on it. >> I drove my truck. It's the only vehicle that was running at the time. And >> I I'm not a doctor. I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to sit here and diagnose you. And you know what? I don't care about your childhood. I don't care about any of that. I want to know why you did what you did. And you know what? You're not manning up to it. You're saying you're blaming it on blood pressure and this and that. Your wife left you and blah blah blah. And so, you know what? While you're talking here, all I'm hearing is blah blah blah because I've got a 3-year-old girl that I just interviewed that said that she never wants to see the bad man again. A 3-year-old girl that doesn't want to see the [clears throat] bad man. And you know what she said? She said, "I hope the bad man goes to the hoosegow." You have changed that child's life. So, you've changed that child's life. 3 years old. 3 years old. >> What comes next is not addressed to the suspect at all. One detective is telling the other he is finished. Read the other way round, it is exactly backwards. >> Because you know what? I'm at a point now where I'm not going to use nice terms or anything because you didn't care what a 3-year-old child saw. And her mother who saw it. And then after that, you go over into the girls' section. You've got a problem. You've got a problem and those feelings aren't going away because a month ago, you came and did the same thing that you've done 30 or 40 times previous to this. So, I'm I'm discouraged that you won't take responsibility for your actions. Detective, I don't want to talk to him anymore. >> Okay. >> The word is progression and it is used as a prediction rather than an accusation. Then he is asked what should happen to a man who does this. >> I mean, anything else you want to say about this? I know we're safe for yourself. >> I'm just not not sure what to say. I mean, are you >> See, my concern is is that even with us sitting here and even with this going on today, that later on when you're out there, because remember I spoke about it a progression. You started out fantasizing. You don't want to talk about the in between. You say that there's no pictures. You say that you've never fantasized I I I can't say that I believe you. Okay? But you've definitely progressed. And you're skipping that point. >> Well, that's something I've never never been into. I don't you know I mean I >> But you have >> It's Jeremiah Alspaugh and you'll never find anything like that and I've never had anything >> and you may be right. You may be right. >> And you know >> But like I said my my concern is the progression. >> Yeah, well >> Okay, but after a while the fantasies don't become enough. So then you go out and you start going into the the stores and who knows what you've done between this and going out to the stores and doing what you do to yourself. And what's next? >> [clears throat] >> I mean you're making it you're making it obvious. >> In this last year those are the only two times in this whole last year. >> Well, let me ask you something. Do you think that that's okay? >> No. >> So put yourself in an average person you know a person that's not involved shoes that sees that kind of stuff. Take yourself out of your shoes and put yourself in someone else's shoes seeing you do what you do. What do you think should happen to a person like that? >> I don't know. >> Why not? >> He answered that question earlier by saying he is disgusted with himself. Here the same admission is handed back to him as a contradiction he cannot close. >> Like I said that's only twice in the in the last what 14 months since I've been here. >> Okay, but 30 three in the last what what did we say? >> 30 years. >> 30 years. Okay. But, you still kind of you didn't answer my question. Do you know that it's wrong? >> Oh, yes, I do. >> But, you've done it 30 times since. So, you know it's wrong, but you continue to do it. It's deviant behavior. What's so exciting about doing something like that? Is there a level of excitement? >> No, it's it's >> What do you get out of it? >> That's why I don't understand why why I do it because you know, I don't there's no satisfaction in it. >> Okay. So, what I I guess what I'm getting out of it is it's something that you're telling me that you can't help. >> Uh well, I think I probably can. It's just uh you know, I feel like I'm not you know, that episode with with the with the shorts hiked up. Now, that was wrong. That was bad. >> So, were any of the 38 times right? Any of those 30 times that you did something like that? >> you know, it just >> It's bad because why? Because you got caught? >> No, it's because uh you know, I don't I feel like I've uh you know, I mean, I'm covered up most all the time. It's it's just those blue shorts episodes. That That was That was uh crazy and and wrong. >> And it wasn't an accident. So, don't try to paint that picture. You know it wasn't. >> He knows it is wrong. He says so plainly. Then, within the same breath, he returns to the count that makes it smaller, only twice, only 14 months. Asked where this ends, he describes a social club and people his own age. It is the only forward-looking answer he gives all day. >> That's how intense your in my mind your fantasy is at this point. Okay? So, I guess my question is what happens next? What's the next step from here? And I'm not talking about from here, I mean for you in your fantasy. Give me a minute, okay? >> I know I I just you know this last month I I joined uh uh the uh Desert Singles Social Club. And there's no children there, not that I They're my age. >> Mhm. >> And these are the people I want to be around. And I want you know I'm I have trouble meeting people and uh you know this is this is this is what's uh what my plan is next, you know, is is to be more active. You know, I don't do bars. I don't you know do any of those kind of things. >> All right, well give me a second I'll be I'll be back in a sec. >> [groaning] >> The charges stated, he asks about his car. From this point the recording stops being an interview and becomes a booking. >> [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] >> Okay, we're going to take a break. But so that you know Michael, you're going to be charged with the indecent exposure. Um I'm going to set you in a cell for a little bit and then uh I got some things that I have to do involving this cuz you're not allowed to leave cuz now you're under arrest. You understand that? Okay? And then um I'll come back and get you in a in a little bit, okay? >> Okay. Now, what uh what's going to become of my car and >> Where is that? >> It's parked out in the lot. >> Okay, which one did you drive? >> The Saturn. >> The Saturn? Thought it had bad plugs. >> I'm sorry? >> Thought it had bad uh valves or whatever. >> that uh I thought it had uh injectors were bad and it turned out to be a bad plug wire. >> Well we'll worry about that when we get there. Uh at the very worst, do you have somebody to come get it? >> No. >> Okay. The very worst, it would be towed to a a yard. Max? >> Yeah. >> Can you come get a gentleman for me, please, and set him in a cell? >> Okay. >> Uh he's under arrest um but he does need his belt and whatever contents he has in his pockets. >> Okay. >> You go with uh booking officer Harding, would you, please? >> to bond out? >> Um you'll have to see a judge first, but go with Max right now and then uh >> And when will I be able to see a judge? >> Um well, the sooner we get this done, maybe the sooner we can get you to see a judge, but at the very latest, tomorrow. But uh like I said, I got some stuff I got to do. This is a >> black box on the floor down there? Go ahead to that. Does it got a name or anything? >> Yeah, Michael Bailey. >> Michael Bailey? >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Okay. Can you stand on the black box for me? >> He should you his ID on him? >> A second visit, a month after the first. This time the watching was not police. A store employee recognized him at the door and followed him the length of the aisles. >> Michael? >> Yes. >> We touched base on at least one event that that you admitted to. >> You remember your rights. Is that right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> We talked about when you went in, I showed you the pictures for May 21st. Uh when you went in when you were wearing the blue shorts, the pictures that I showed you. We talked about that. Um there was a second incident that we kind of touched on. You went in later. It was uh believe it was >> I think it was May 12th, 2014. >> You went in on the May 12th. And this is the incident uh You may not have been aware of it, but um you were being watched by uh loss prevention. >> What is that? >> Loss prevention is like their security. Uh for like shoplifting and all that stuff. Do you know what I'm talking about? >> [clears throat] >> Um And that's what I want to discuss with you. I want to It sounds pretty much the same thing. You came to Walmart from Havasu. Um you went into the store about at about 1:00. And there was a woman with a small girl in a cart. Do you recall that? >> I think so. >> All right. Let's talk about that. Tell me about what you did that day. >> That day? >> Yeah. When you got to Walmart. Were you walking around, looking around like you said you were in the first incident? >> around. Basically. >> Okay. So, when do you see this lady and this and this little girl? >> Pretty much when I were first walked in, I I noticed those guys there. There was some kind of a a display. I don't know what the event was or what uh season was. It was seasonable items. >> Okay. So, were they the only that lady and that little girl or were they the only couple that were the that were in that area at the time or were there more? >> I think there was other people coming in. It was right pretty much right at the entry of the of the store. >> So, what grabbed your attention about them? >> Uh >> [clears throat] >> I'm not real sure. >> Okay. >> You know, I just uh was just hanging out in that area and uh >> [snorts] >> Another little girl that was between 5 and 10 in a shopping cart. >> Well, she was and uh you know, I >> [clears throat] >> she didn't even know I was there. >> The beach towels are set out loud and the memory returns immediately. Two words do what 4 minutes of open questions could not. >> And I >> You were by the beach towels, right? >> I'm sorry? >> You were by the beach towels. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. Remembering now? >> Yeah, I do remember that. >> Okay. >> The beach towels. And um what was uh what is that? Security? Business where are you guys? >> What's this? >> Are Do they think I shoplifted or something? >> No, no, no, no. >> Oh, okay. >> They recognized you from the first time that you came in. >> Oh, I see. >> And uh did what you did when you touched yourself in front of that little girl. Um and then grandma saw you in the wheelchair. >> Okay. >> They recognized you from that incident. >> Oh. >> So, when you came in this time, they saw you and they watched you. >> Oh, I see. >> Okay. And um So, you're standing and they watched you and they said they saw you get standing by the towels watching this little girl and her mom. And what were you doing? >> Oh, I was just walking around. I wasn't just standing there. >> Okay. Well, were you doing anything to yourself while you were watching this? >> No, I was right there. >> Michael. >> No, I wouldn't touch myself thinking that there was anybody around watch watching. >> Michael, we already went over the first incident. You were clearly doing that on on film. You saw people doing it or you People saw you doing it the first time. >> I'll be damned. >> Now you're saying you didn't do it? >> I'm I I'm saying that I I got probably did, but I I just you know, if there's somebody just standing there, I'm not going to be fondling myself. >> You got to be kidding me. I I just got done talking to you in the in uh in our last interview where you were following this little girl around touching yourself. And you were so focused in on her, you couldn't even see the grandmother who was watching you do it. You remember that part of the conversation? >> I guess I do the conversation. I don't remember the incident. I mean, I just don't remember it. >> Is it fair to say that you get tunnel vision when when this stuff is going on? >> I imagine. >> Cuz you didn't see anybody around watching you, but you also weren't aware that they have video surveillance inside of the mall. >> Well, yes, I am. And I guess I do Well, I'll tell you what, I I I just That was a little >> Just get tunnel vision. >> They know about his daughter before he mentions her. She is 42. She has nothing to do with this case, and they have already spoken to his ex-wife. >> You see one thing and one thing only, and you forget about everything else that's going on. >> you know, cuz that was a pretty stupid thing to do right in front of the video cameras. >> Do you have children, Michael? Got a daughter, don't you? >> How did you know that? >> I told you, Michael, we don't uh we don't talk to anybody without doing our homework. >> Uh-huh. >> You got a daughter that's about what, 42, isn't she? >> That That could be right. >> Mhm. It is. >> [clears throat] >> I It's just that she's just going to make uh us you know, things miserable for me. >> You haven't been married to her for 10 years. How could she make things miserable for you? >> Well, I you know, I mean, that's all she needs is something to hear something like this and and uh you know, that's not going to make my life go too well, for sure. >> What do you think she would tell us? >> Oh, I don't think she'd tell me anything. I can't imagine because uh uh we had a good relationship, a healthy relationship, basically. >> Why did it end? >> Huh? >> Why did it end? >> Well, she uh claimed that uh I was a workaholic and that I didn't know how to have fun. And she became a born-again Christian. And she just carried it uh to an extreme. And uh so eventually, uh you know, she had to go her way and I had to go mine. >> By his own account, his daughter does not know he exists. He says it in the same register he used for the car and the shorts. >> Did you ever share that uh those fantasies with your wife? >> No. [clears throat] No. >> Did you ever share any of that with your daughter? >> No. >> [clears throat] >> No, my daughter and I uh don't know each other. Never have. And uh as far as my daughter knows, I don't even exist. [music] She thinks her father is uh somebody else. >> The counselor read out his pairs: a woman and her child, a woman and her three-year-old, an elderly woman and her granddaughter, then the employee who watched it happen. >> And >> How many times have you gone to the Walmart in Lake Havasu and done the same thing? >> No. No. >> No? >> No. >> Okay. So, you just pick on our fair city. Why here? Why Bullhead? >> I was just uh you know, get get out of town for a while and it's nice roll up here and uh you know, I go over to Laughlin. Do that uh to the outlet center. >> You ever do any of this any of those clothing stores over there? I know they got a kid clothing store over there. Just Walmart here? Or is there any other place? >> uh I I behave 99% of the time. >> Well, it's that other 1% that's going to put you in prison. >> In prison? >> Go ahead and share with him, Detective. >> Looking at uh seven felony counts of sexual indecency in public, public sexual indecency. >> Seven? >> Count for everybody that uh that can be identified throughout the time [clears throat] that you were doing this stuff. We got plenty of names. Plenty of people who saw you, plenty of people who chose you from pick you out of uh lineups. >> The woman and her child that were in the seasonal item that you were standing there near the beach towels fondling yourself. Those are two victims. The woman and her 3-year-old child in the dairy aisle. Those are two more victims. >> The old lady and her granddaughter. Those are two more victims. And then there's the loss prevention clerk who actually saw you with his own eyes and then later on video saw the whole act. >> So, this means I'm going to public like prison, huh? >> He answers the arithmetic with a question about himself, and it is the first time all day that he sounds frightened. The second detective takes the last stretch. He states his goal in plain terms, prison and registration, and credits the case to his colleague while he does it. >> Have you ever done anything >> I'll I'll do anything I can do to put you in prison. I'll tell you that right now because you have a something that's not right with you. For a grown man to sit and say that he fantasizes about 6-year-olds, 6 to 10-year-olds, that's um sexually deviant behavior. And after we interviewed the 11-year-old victim again this morning, another interview with her, and she told me and Detective English that she is afraid of you, that she has nightmares about you, and she was afraid that you were going to grab her and do God knows what to her. >> Oh, no. >> Um you know what? My heart goes out to these victims. And unfortunately, and maybe I'm calloused, but my heart does not go out to you because when I have a 3-year-old child telling me about the bad man, 3-year-old child shouldn't know about bad men right now. And uh you obviously put yourself in this position, and so it's uh it's my goal, even though this is Detective English's case, it it's my goal to to make sure that you do go to prison and and to hopefully make you register as a sex offender because I think that we grabbed you at the tip of the iceberg. You were >> Working your way up to doing what you were doing before. >> away from touching a child. >> No, I would >> He is told his own figure has been halved in the telling. He does not dispute the figure. He disputes the 11 months instead. >> When you sit and fantasize about 6-year-old >> No, I would >> female children, that is >> I don't sit and >> sexually deviant behavior. You told us 30 to 40 times you've done this. And I know that >> my whole life. >> For 30 years is how long you said you've been fantasizing. And so I can tell you >> that. >> like 30 or 40 times, you've minimized it at least half. So, Michael, I you know what? I I try and have compassion for people that have problems. I I really do. You know what? I can understand somebody that murders somebody else. I can't understand a grown 65-year-old man fantasizing about a 6-year-old child. That just does not register with me. I I don't understand it. I can't understand it. And uh >> You said it wasn't the end of the the end of the world. >> Well, Michael >> end of the world for me. >> Well, Michael, listen, you know, it's not just the fact that you're fantasizing about this stuff. I mean, that part's bad in itself, but it's the fact that, you know, I've discussed with you the progression of this whole thing. You've progressed to the point where you've been acting on it for the last 30 years. You have. You admittedly say you have. >> It's getting less and less and less and less and less. >> So, we should >> For the last 11 months, I've I had two two days. >> So, do you think a guy who does what you do should be able to just wander around in society, walk around in Walmart? >> I think I you know, I it's got to stop. It's got to stop. It's got to stop. I know. >> Do you have any tattoos or anything on your arms or upper body? >> No. >> Why do you always wear a long-sleeved shirt? >> Skin cancer. >> You don't worry about skin cancer on your legs? >> Uh no. >> 13 months in the state, 2 days on camera, seven felonies. He puts those three numbers beside each other out loud and hears them for the first time. >> You know, don't uh >> A- A- And the the the thing that gets me about this, Michael, is is you know it's wrong, but yet you continue to do it. And even though you say in your mind, and all you've been doing with us this whole time is minimizing everything. You've been trying to make everything so small when you know it's not. >> Well, the deal is is I've been here 13 months and I had 2 days that you witnessed and that happened. >> And in 2 days you racked up seven felony counts. >> Oh, my god. >> So, you know what? You can't minimize this and put it on everybody else because I'm going to tell you what, a 6-year-old girl or a 3-year-old girl does not flaunt themselves in front of you. >> He is trespassed from the store and told he is not wanted in the city. Neither of those is a sentence any court is going to hand down. >> This 11-year-old girl that you followed around, that you were within 8 ft of picking out clothes when she turned around and looked at you. And she saw you fondling your penis on multiple occasions in one short trip to Walmart for her. >> Here. >> And you know what? She doesn't want to go back. She doesn't want to go back. And you told him that he's not welcome back, right? >> No, yeah, but I'm sure he he knows by now you're not to You're going to get trespassed from Walmart and that probably means every Walmart on the face of this planet cuz that's usually how it works. >> And you know what? Honestly, we don't even want you back in Bullhead City. >> The last things he asks about are a lawyer, a ride, and a car in a parking lot. The tape ends before any of the three is answered. >> You know what? Stay in Lake Havasu. If If you got to go show your penis to people, then then you know what? Do it at home. Don't bring that kind of activity here to our city. We pride ourselves in keeping this city a safe city. And you know what? You're bringing badness to our city. >> Okay. >> Because a 3-year-old told us >> I'm sorry. >> that a bad man was here. So. All right, Michael. >> So, seven counts >> Seven class five felonies. >> Seven class five And what how how long in prison would that be? >> That is uh I couldn't tell you off the off the top of my head. >> Are they going to let me go home before uh >> Um I don't know. That's up to the judge. You'll see you'll go over to the jail. You'll be booked in the Kingman jail, county jail. And you'll be held um until at least the morning. You'll see a judge. >> Oh, you mean I'm I'm not going to stay here tonight? >> No, this isn't a holding This is only a temporary holding facility. It's a processing facility. >> Well, how am I going to get my car? >> You'll go back up to Well, you can either leave it locked up in the uh in the uh parking lot, which I don't know when you're going to get out. And if it sits there for so long, eventually it's going to be towed. So, um either that or you can find somebody who can come and get it for you. >> Uh what about getting a I feel like if I'm going to have any kind of chance of of life at at all, I'm going to have to have a lawyer. >> If you want a lawyer, there's phones in there. There's phone books. You can call an attorney. It's been your option this whole time. So, you know, uh they will provide free counsel for you. Um if you can't afford it, I mean that was explained to you in your Miranda rights. But, that's where we're at. I mean >> I can't believe that. >> You just got to keep it in your pants, Michael. That's all. You got to control yourself. >> Yeah, and said it was the end of the world, and it is. >> Well, I mean believe it or not, there's even worse out there. You know, take that and give that to Maxine. Max. >> Michael Dean Bailey was ultimately convicted for his actions and sentenced to prison, bringing the disturbing case to a close. Cases like this show how interrogation footage can reveal the truth behind a suspect's words and behavior. If you found this interrogation compelling, subscribe to Evidence Lab Interrogation. Like and share your thoughts in the comments. This is Evidence Lab Interrogation, where the evidence speaks for itself.