Is that a lawful order, sir? >> Yes, it's a lawful order. >> Being detained. >> Can you stop talking, sir? >> I'm asking you a question, sir. Am I being detained? >> So, I guess that's a no. >> Yes, you're being detained and you have no legitimate reason to be here. >> What is I don't need a legitimate reason to be in public places. You need to learn the law, sir. >> Cops are supposed to lead with confidence and uphold the law. But they're still human after all. Sometimes their judgment slips or power goes to their head. When this happens, someone higher up needs to step in and call them out. But how do they really react when they're exposed to a higher authority? >> You do not have the right to film in this building. >> I do. This is a public building. >> You trying to walk past you to leave cuz you're obviously you're going to need some complaints. Don't touch my phone. >> Turn it off. >> Please get me a supervisor. >> This is the town hall side. Come with me to the police department side. We'll get supervisor. >> Don't touch me ever again. Please. Excuse me. Get out of my way. >> Thank you. >> Here are several instances when cops have been embarrassed by a higher authority. Starting off with a case of an attorney who didn't back down when a rogue cop showed up at his home trying to trample her client's daughter's rights and carry out an illegal search. >> So, we got a call about a road rage incident. They gave description of the vehicle, license plate number, description of the occupants. They said somebody waved a gun at him. Is that we're going to do a protective sweep of the residents. We can do that without a warrant. Okay. We're going to make sure there's nobody in there with a loaded gun waiting to shoot us out the windows. >> No, it is his private property. So unless you have a search warrant, um you don't have a right to enter his home. >> In August 2024, an officer with the York County Regional Police Department was dispatched to a residential neighborhood after reports of a teen brandishing a weapon during a road rage incident, but thinking he could trample all over the teen's rights, assuming they didn't know any better. The officer was blindsided when the teen's father stepped in as he wasn't about to let him get away with it. >> Why aren't y'all recording? >> No, you get pulled over. Pull your cameras out and record them and get name and badge numbers. >> You know you're blocking traffic, right? You know that bus had to go in the grass to get around you, right? Which is illegal. >> Get around it. >> Sir, you're welcome to banter, record, bate me. It's not going to change what I'm doing out here. >> [ __ ] what you're doing. You're black in traffic. >> I couldn't get around you and the bus couldn't get around you. Do you give them permission to search your car? >> No, they're not. They don't have a picture in my car. I did nothing wrong. >> They didn't see a gun. >> Anybody can ride down the street and say they saw a gun. >> You can be his little bodyguard all you want. Just stay out of my camera. >> Who's Who's the uh >> name and badge number? >> That's Sergeant Good number 14. Um who's the Are you the homeowner here? >> Why does that matter? Well, because I'm going to talk to the homeowner, see if either one and get search warrant. >> They're not here. >> Okay. Who does some Anybody here live here? >> There's a couple people that live here. >> Okay. Any adults? >> Yeah, there's a few adults that live here. >> I talked to one of them. >> You're talking to one. >> Okay. So, you live here, sir. I'm not your enemy. Okay. I understand you're apprehensive. You got a whole bunch of cops here and everything else. I understand that. I'm not here to bust your chops. I'm not accusing you of anything. >> I what you're doing? >> We got a call and they are explained to you or No. >> No. The officers did. No. >> Okay. All right. So, we got a call about a road rage incident. They gave description of the vehicle, license plate number, description of the occupants. They said somebody waved a gun at him. Okay. So, it is he said, she said at this point, okay, but we also have to look at the motivation behind that call. Does that happen every day that just somebody randomly just picks out some random vehicle and says, "Hey, they did whatever." Does it happen? >> It can happen, but does it happen all the time? >> So, go get a warrant. >> Okay. Well, then that's what we'll do. >> You have to get a warrant. >> Okay. All right. >> We're not searching anything on this property without a warrant. >> What we're going to do, though, in the meantime, because there is a firearm involved, alleged to be involved, is that we're going to do a protective sweep of the residence. We can do that without a warrant. Okay. We're going to make sure there's nobody in there with a loaded gun waiting to shoot us out the windows. Okay. >> There isn't. >> Well, I can't take your word for it. >> You can't search that. You're not searching the house. At this point, the officer was scrambling to come up with a shaky, unlawful excuse to justify his push for a home search. And that was when the father made a decisive move. >> This is attorney. I see you requested support for a traffic stop today. Is that correct? >> Yeah, my daughter was pulled over and now they want to search the house. >> Um, that's >> Hi. Um, >> I'm Sergeant Good with the New York County Regional Police Department. Are you Are you his representing attorney? >> Yes, I am. Okay. So, what we have is we had a road rage incident where somebody described a uh pistol with extended magazine was pointed at them from a vehicle that's here in the driveway. The people are here in the driveway. The police officers got here and saw them go into the house and we want to try to confirm whether there's somebody in the house with an extended magazine pistol that was waving at people or not. I explained to your client that one, we could get his permission to look for that specific style weapon. Uh, or we could apply for a search warrant and but first, we would probably do a protective sweep of the home to make sure there's nobody in there pointing a gun at us right now. But that's where we're at. >> Yes, sir. So, Mr. Ward, you understand that they don't have a right to search your home without a warrant. Correct? >> I I I told them they cannot enter the house without a warrant. Well, there's a difference between entering the house and doing a protective sweep to make sure there's not somebody in there pointing a gun at me right now. We wouldn't be searching the house. We' be first doing a protective sweep, making sure there's no other people in the house that would do us harm. Then after that, we would apply for a search warrant to search the house for evidence. >> Yes, sir. But you understand that he doesn't have to give you permission to enter his home unless you have a warrant. >> Correct. for searching it. The protective suite, I believe there's plenty of case law saying that we can make sure there's nobody armed and dangerous in there wanting to hurt us. Again, not to search the house, but to enter for a protective sweep. >> Um, you know, it is his private property, so unless you have a search warrant, um, you don't have a right to enter his home. >> Okay. We might agree to disagree on that point uh for entry, but uh anyway, we'll we'll apply for a search warrant and as long as these people all stay out here, maybe we don't need to do a protective sweep and we'll just apply for the search warrant. So, all right. Very good. Thank you. >> No worries. You have a great day, sir. Um, do you want you want to talk to her about um, so I understand his, you know, animosity towards us being here and everything else like that, but we are trying to solve a crime. Uh, I don't know if you want to talk >> that >> they have no witnesses here saying that it happened, >> right? We don't we normally don't have the witnesses. >> They just took a 911 phone call. So, I'm I'm trying to look for cooperation, look for a specific weapon. If it's not there, great. Don't touch me again. >> If uh if uh you know, if you want to talk to him, see if if there's anything that he wants to do with us, great. If not, we'll just uh secure the way we're at now. But we're not going to let anybody go back in the residence until we have a search warrant because very well could be weapons inside. He's actually admitted there's other weapons inside. In a desperate attempt to intimidate the father into allowing the search, the officer resorted to a petty tactic, claiming that no one would be allowed into the house for several hours. It was clearly a move to pressure the dad, hoping the inconvenience would rattle him just enough to make him cave. >> So, we're going to be sitting out here for several hours waiting for the search. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. I just, you know, I have to protect my client's constitutional rights. >> No, no, I get it. I Yeah. No, I totally understand. Yep. Yep. No, I get it. I just I just didn't know what all conversation you had before I got here on you know whether whether you know and then obviously too I mean you know one we're if if somebody has this weapon and they're willing to escort us to it and get it great you know there is no weapon they're talking about in this >> no weapon if there is no weapon then I understand that also but we can't just say you know somebody says somebody did the same thing to So, anybody can call and say, "Hey, this guy has a gun." >> And you're going and and but they're not here, so they can't say anything. They took a 911 phone call. >> No, no, we talked to the person. We talked to the person anyway. All right. Good enough. >> All right. >> They don't have permission to search anything. >> The search I have a lawyer on the phone. They're looking for a gun and there is a bomb in the trunk of the car. >> Okay. That means they're going to get a warrant to search for uh a gun. So, anything outside of the gun is nothing, right? >> They can take it, right? That's all. >> Um unfortunately, if they get a warrant to search the car, um I I believe they can press charges for something else being found in the vehicle. Um >> what if we just let them search it and all they find is a bone. It's going to be up to their discretion on whether >> I will smash it and smash it right now. And what can they do? >> Thank you, Charie. All right. Go away. >> Okay. >> Um, so yeah, if you do give them permission to search like and they find something like that, like just know that they it is up to their discretion whether or not they want to press charges. I gota >> um and sometimes you know when you are cooperative they might let something like that slide but there's no guarantee so up your rights um in that instance >> the charges I gota >> um and say no like just because they're going to apply for a warrant doesn't mean that they're going to be successful in getting one >> given the extenduating circumstances The father agreed to let the officers search only the car, nothing else, hoping it would be enough to prove that the 911 caller had fabricated the story and that no one had entered the house to hide anything. >> Here I parked up there, kept an eye on it. It wasn't until >> whoever was parked down there seen us the whole time. We're outside. >> Yeah, we kind of see him once we start I saw him get get the stuff out of the car. That was for No, I never >> this. >> So, nobody carried something in the >> Um, we're again, we're just looking for a large pistol with the extended magazine. So, that's it. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. >> You have a card? >> Uh, in my in my car. >> I'll grab it for you then. >> You ain't got a card? >> He's brand new. He don't have a card. >> Yes. I can't wait to tell him about this interaction. It's crazy. show you guys the car. Really no gun in it. Um, so yeah, I mean >> I don't know why the caller's adamant that she saw sawing them cuz they had a bat. Like they were literally waving the bat out the window like >> over a bat. >> Yeah, >> like a baseball. >> A baseball bat. >> In the end, no arrests were made. Following up is the case of a couple of officers who attempted to violate a journalist's first amendment rights only to be publicly humiliated when their lack of legal knowledge was exposed in real time. >> I'm sorry. You're in my building. Who are you? >> I'm in your building. >> This is the town of Orangetown's building. >> This is yours. >> I'm going to have you dismiss me like I'm some peeon. >> Okay, >> ma'am. You've been treating me bad. You've grabbed my camera. You guys have no right to try and grab my phone. You have no right. In 2022, a freelance journalist walked into the town hall in Orangetown, New York, intending to conduct a First Amendment audit. But things quickly took a turn when a public servant from the town supervisor's office tried to block him, attempting to trample on his rights as a journalist. >> Hi. Are you filming? >> Hi, ma'am. How are you? >> Good. How are you? Are you filming? >> Um, who are you first? >> Who are you first? >> No, no, no. H, who are you? >> I'm sorry. You're in my building. Who are you? >> I'm in your building. >> This is the town of Orangetown's building. This is yours. >> This is the town of Orangetown's building. I work here. Oh, >> okay. This is not your building. You don't own it, right? >> I'm sorry. Are you filming here? >> Do you you don't own the building. The people own the building, ma'am. This is a public building. >> And you need to have Do you have a permit to film here? >> Do I have a permit? >> Yeah. >> I do not have a permit. No. >> Okay. So, in order to form film in this building, you need a permit. >> That's not true. That's not true. Who Who are you? Yeah. Really? Who are you? >> So, I know who I spoke with. I want to know how come you think you don't need a permit. >> Is your name on your shirt? I can't really see. >> You work for the supervisor's office. >> Because you're not allowed to film here without a permit. >> Ma'am, why are you becoming so hostile? >> Can I help you? >> How you doing, sir? >> Officer Kay Farms Police Department. >> How you doing? >> What's going on today? >> Nothing. Just filming. >> Okay. >> Doesn't have a permit. >> I don't I don't need a permit. >> I'm going to ask you to leave. >> I'd like that shut off so I don't want anything. >> This way. You can turn it off or I can take it from you. Don't touch me if if you are you ordering me to leave. >> I'm ordering you to leave. >> I want that film and whatever's on here shut off. >> I'm walking out. Turn it off. >> This is not against the law. This is a constitutionally protected activity. I'm trying to You're trying >> off the phone. >> I am trying to walk past you to leave. >> I want to make it clear. I'm trying to walk past you to leave cuz you're obviously you're going to need some complaints. Don't touch my phone. >> Turn it off. >> Don't have a body camera on too. Don't touch my phone. >> What are you guys doing? >> This is against the law. >> Give me your license. >> This is against the law. license. >> This is against the law, sir. >> On your ID. >> This is What crime have I committed? >> I can ask you for your ID. You're in a government. >> You can you can ask me for my ID and I can decline. >> Where your ID? >> I'm going to decline to give you my ID. It's my right. >> Oh, you are? >> You government facility? >> Um, do you have reasonable, articulable suspicion that I've committed a crime, sir? >> You don't have permit. >> That's not a crime facility. That doesn't mean this is a public this is a public building. Go get your supervisor, please. I'm asking for your supervisor. >> I'm going to wait right here. I'm sure your policy states that if I ask for your supervisor, you have to get me one. So, I'm Can you get me a supervisor because you're going to make a big mistake here. >> What's my mistake? >> Your mistake is you're violating my rights and I'm going to hold you accountable. >> You are in a government building. >> You just grab That doesn't matter. This is a public building. >> Yes, I am. This is a public building. I'm a journalist. I have freedom of I have freedom of press. >> Do you want You want our supervisor? >> Yes, I want your supervisor. >> Go down to the police department side and we'll bring our >> Great. Tell him not to touch me. Don't touch me again. You touched my You touched my camera. You need to turn it off. >> No, I don't. >> You need a permit to film in this? >> No, I do not. >> Yes, you do. >> No, I do not. >> Yes, you do. >> It's Is that a law? >> No, it's town ordinance. >> It's not a law. >> It's not a law. Where's the code? >> I'm going to go get the town attorney. >> Go get him. I'm sure he'll I'm sure he'll educate you, ma'am. If he's If he's good at his job, I'm sure he'll educate you. >> Insult me. >> I'm not trying to insult you. >> Yeah, because you obviously don't know freedom of press. >> Permits. I issue the permits in this building and the town of Orange. >> You obviously don't understand. I have a right to freedom of press, ma'am. You do not have the right to film in this building. >> I do. This is a public building. >> $5,000 until I do a park. >> You're talking about for commercial film again. You need education. Go get the town attorney, please. You're talking about commercial filming. >> I'm not going to have you dismiss me like I'm some peon. >> Okay. >> Ma'am, you've been treating me bad. You've grabbed my camera. Please get me a supervisor, sir. >> So, come with me to this side and we'll get supervisor. The >> town hall side. Come on me to the police department side. We'll get supervisor. >> Don't touch me ever again. Please. Excuse me. Get out of my way. >> Thank you. Excuse me, sir. Sorry about that. Come >> on. Come on. >> No, I don't trust this guy behind me. He's a loose cannon. >> Walk in front of us then. >> He can walk in front. >> Loose cannon. Uneducated. >> At this point, the first officer, clearly out of his depth and visibly embarrassed by his poor grasp of the law, had no choice but to walk away in silence, leaving his partner scrambling to come up with feeble excuses to save face. >> What are you in training, man? Like, I don't understand. What's wrong with you? >> Why are you in training? indication he's >> because he he doesn't understand that I have the right to film. Number one. Number two, he puts his hands on my equipment, which he cannot do. >> But you don't have the right to film inside for no legitimate reason, which is what he was trying to explain to you. That's trying to figure out >> exactly. I'm an independent journalist gathering content for a story. I'm working on a story at city hall. I have to go see the town clerk, >> right, >> to do a Freedom of Information Act request. >> But you don't do that at the town clerk, though. That goes to the records department. No, I'm I'm talking about I'm not talking about for the police department >> coming in. >> I'm not talk I'm not talking about for the police department, sir. I'm talking about >> for the town. >> Okay. >> For the town. So that's why I need to see the town clerk. >> Okay. >> But escalating the situation like that, that's not cool. Grabbing my camera, you know, ordering me to leave a public building. You have no authority to order me to leave a public building. I'm conducting business, constitutionally protected business, and I'm getting public services here. Just because I have a camera in my hand doesn't mean anything. I have the freedom of press. I'm an independent journalist. And if somebody would to talk to me instead of trying to grab my phone and order me to leave a building, they would know all these things. That's why deescalation is so important. >> I'm sitting here talking to you. >> Yeah. And that's why I appreciate you for doing that. Can I get your name and badge number? >> Yeah. Mara 218. >> Mara. >> Mhm. >> 218. Thank you. You guys have no right to try and grab my phone. You have no right. I have the right to record. >> Wasn't there so It's on It's on It's on body camera. I want to speak on that cuz I >> It's on body camera, >> right? >> And it's on this camera. >> You tried to grab my phone. Not you. >> Mhm. >> When I say you, I meant general >> the police, >> right? >> I don't even remember his name at the moment. But >> he tried to take my phone from me. >> What authority does he have to do that? >> Well, that's what I said. I wasn't there. I don't know. So, I'd rather not speak up. >> Well, that's why we're going to get a supervisor, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. He went to get him now. >> You requested to speak to a supervisor? >> Correct, sir. >> Okay. Yeah. What do you want to talk to me about? >> Um, Officer Caleb. >> Okay. completely unhinged and out of control. Okay. >> Completely. >> All right. >> Grabbed attempted to take my phone from me. >> Like when I say attempted, grabbed my phone and I had to wrestle it out of his hands. >> Okay. >> Um ordered me to leave a public building while I'm conducting lawful business. >> Okay. >> And um just completely unprofessional and and and unaware of the freedom of spe. I told him, you know, no deescalation um technique whatsoever to try and figure out who I was, what I was doing here. Just allowed uh an employee from the supervisor's office to put a battery in his back. And like I said, immediately, I'm ordering you to leave this building right now. Didn't even ask who I was, what I was doing. No type of um you know, prerequisite questions as to figure out what my purpose is. This is our building. This is the town building. You need a permit to film. Again, all things that a police officer, I don't know if he's new. I don't know, you know, if he's been here for 20 years. I don't know. But the point is is that a police officer should know. They should be properly trained not to put your hands on on law- abiding citizens. Let me see your ID. Give me your ID. Give me your ID. I said, "Sir, do you have reasonable, articulable suspicion that I've committed a crime or I'm going to commit a crime? I don't need that." You know, these things concern me, sir. These these these behaviors by law enforcement who took an oath to uphold the Constitution really concern me and I want to file a formal complaint against this officer. >> Okay. Do you want to provide me with your ID? >> I can give you my name. Sure. >> Given the troubling encounter with Officer Kyler and his blatant disregard for the journalist's constitutional rights, the journalist decided he couldn't let it slide. He filed a formal complaint not just to hold Kyla accountable, but to make sure that no other citizen would be subjected to the same kind of intimidation and abuse of power. >> All right. So, right now you're telling me you want to file a formal complaint. >> Correct. >> Okay. I'll get the paperwork for you. Um, at this point, do you want to tell me why you came to the building today? >> Well, sure. I mean, it's not a secret. You know, I'm an independent journalist, just like I told anybody else who who took the time to ask me. I'm an independent journalist gathering content for a story, doing some freedom of information I can request with the town clerk. >> Okay, >> that's it. And and documenting my experience to disseminate to the public. That's all. Peacefully. >> No, no issues. This is a public building. These are public areas of the building. >> All right. >> So, independent journalists, right? >> Correct. >> And you gathering information. >> Correct. as far as the layout of the building, you know, public records requests. >> One of the most important components of the opening program are angels. Angels, >> honestly, it shouldn't matter. It's just a public building, you know, but I I understand you just want information. >> Sure. Okay. I'll be back shortly. >> All right. >> Okay. What I have I have a couple forms for you here. >> Okay. >> Civilian complaint against the police employee. So, I'm going to give you a pen here. here. Do you have a pen on you or no? >> Um, no. You know what? Can I I'm going to fill this out. Could you give me your email or internal affairs email and I can email it over >> and and I'll definitely follow back up on it. >> Would you be able to bring this original back here? Could you fill it out and bring it back to the police station? >> Sure. Yeah, that's not a problem. Will you notoriize it and then uh give it back to me? Like give me a copy so I have a you know what I mean? Like I have a signed copy that you received it. >> I'll look into that whether or not I get can give you an actual copy of it. But what's going to happen is you'll fill it out when you come back here. Um, I'll sign the bottom >> confirming it. >> Okay. But we want to keep the original. >> No. Yeah, but I would just need a copy. That's all. >> And I'll check on that at the time that you come back with it. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Great. >> So, I'll fill it out. >> Hold on to these forms here. Any other questions for me today? >> Nope. That's it. >> Okay. >> And I asked to speak with Sergeant Voisa. >> Voices. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Have a good day. >> You, too. >> In the end, no disciplinary action was taken against the officer. Up next is the case of a small town sheriff who completely disregarded the law and tried to intimidate an independent journalist on public property only to realize too late that he was messing with someone who knew their rights better than he did. >> Being detained. >> Can you stop talking? >> I'm asking you a question, sir. Am I being detained? >> So, I guess that's a no. >> Yes, you're being detained. You have no legitimate reason to be here. >> What is I don't need a legitimate reason to be in public places. You need to learn the law, sir. >> You're going to get a complaint, sir. >> Add to the lesson. On January 2024, an independent journalist showed up at a local Air Force base in Westampton, New York, hoping to get clearance to film a military helicopter. But what began as a simple request quickly turned into a tense standoff that exposed just how far some officials would go to shut down a camera. >> Air Force Base Francis Sabreski. >> Hey sir, how you doing? >> Yeah, I actually wanted Can I ask you a quick question? So, I know it says that uh video and cameras aren't permitted. Is that a law? And I just wanted to get a picture of the helicopter. >> Yeah. >> Okay. For what? >> Just to make sure everything's going to go cool. That's it. I just want a picture of the helicopter. >> To get a picture of the helicopter. >> That's it. >> That's it. >> I don't want to give it. I'm just here for the picture of the helicopter. That's it. You come out of that truck? >> No. Oh, no I did not. >> No, you're not with that. >> No, no, sir. I'm not >> by yourself. >> Yes, sir. >> Just walk over here. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, did you get the picture? >> No, I didn't I didn't want to I didn't want to do it without without uh talking to you guys first. >> Well, that's something you can have to call somebody for >> Okay. What? >> Yeah. Hold on. >> Ask your name or something. I'm ready. I'm ready. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. How you doing, sir? >> How you doing, sir? I was talking to the Is you same guy I was talking to? Are you the same guy I was talking to? >> I was talking to the other guy. I wanted to know if I can get a picture of the uh helicopter over there. >> No, no photographs. >> Is that a Is that a law? >> Huh? >> Is that a law? No photographs on >> Is that a law though? >> I'm in I'm in public, right? >> Yeah, but I'm not I don't want to go inside. I want to see if I can take I want to see if I can take it from the outside. >> All right, thanks guys. Have a good day. After that brief exchange and the journalist's request to film was denied, it wasn't long before a local sheriff's deputy showed up. >> What's going on, my man? >> Hey, what's going on? >> Hey, how you doing? What do you think? The air guard base over there was just curious what was going on. >> No, I went over there. What's your name and badge's number? >> Okay, okay, okay, no problem. >> Something I couldn't hear you. >> No, no, no, no. Um, I was just over there. Uh, saw the uh helicopter. >> Oh, and I wanted to take a picture of the helicopter and I went up to the guard booth first >> to ask them if I could take a picture of it. >> They said they said no photos or videos allowed. I see the I see the signs, but >> I'm on public property. >> Yeah. Know trying to go in and out just because it's the >> air. No, but I understand that. But what what I'm saying is I'm on public property, right? Yes, you are. So, I was trying to be courteous by asking them cuz I don't want to get I saw the signs. No photos. >> Fair enough. >> But it's not a law, right? >> Well, if you were to go inside past that gate, >> if I would go past Yeah. I would never do that. >> You're on public property right now. >> Never do that. >> You are. >> So, I can grab picture of that. >> Of what? You want to take a picture of >> of the of the of the helicopter? Yeah. >> The helicopter. Technically, a helicopter you can take a picture of. >> Okay. So, I'm going to go take a picture of the helicopter. I promise you. >> If they tell you to stay behind some sort of perimeter, I promise you I'll take it from public. >> I'll come with you. That way I I'll let you know cuz we're on county property right now. My >> jurisdiction. So I'll let you know if it's good or not. >> Okay, cool. >> Over here, this is federal. >> No, no, no. I don't want to go in there any That's why I went over there and ask them before I did it. I didn't want them to think that I was doing something crazy. >> You know what it is? It has to do with uh like security clearance >> stuff. You know, think about it this way. You had 9/11 terrorists, you know, going on the Twin Towers. >> I get it 100%. >> That's That's why. >> But I just I'm just want to take a picture of the helicopter. I thought it was pretty cool. >> All right. No d It is. It is actually pretty cool. >> All right. As a matter of fact, they have like the uh people like coming down in the paratrooper things down in there. >> Yeah. >> Like we just want my supervisor down here. We got him come down here and then Yeah. You're on public property. If you want you can have you can take a picture of me picture. It's no problem. >> Yeah. I No disrespect to you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Please. Seriously. >> I just record all the time. That's just me. I just want to make sure again, you know, everything we have to be safe. But yeah, sure. I don't say the wrong thing to you not just do first picture. >> Yeah. No, that's why I asked you if it was against the law and that's why I asked you first. I didn't just go take pictures yet. I was just filming randomly though. >> That's all. >> No, no problem. >> All right. So, you doing like a documentary or something? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to get a picture. I never been over here. So, I wanted to get a I got a picture of the sign >> and then I wanted to get a All from public. I know. You know what I mean? I don't want >> Listen, I don't want to break the law, man. >> I get it. Look, I get it. >> I don't want to break the law. >> You got to eat from their perspective. >> No, 100%. I get it. Especially too there's a heightened security thing going on right now with everything that happened in the capital building. >> Yeah. No heightened alert. >> No no I mean no harm to you sir. I appreciate your service. Really? Thank you. >> We just wanted to uh we wanted to take a picture of the helicopter. >> How you doing sir? What was your name and badge number 584? >> Okay. Thank you. >> What's going on? >> What's your name badge number sir? >> Helicopter. He just wanted to take a picture of the helicopter helic. I went to go talk to I went to go talk to the those guys in there at the gate and I want to ask them permission cuz I saw no I saw no uh photographs. They have multiple signs. No photographs or videos allowed. But that's why I wanted to ask them cuz I knew if I'm on a public easement and I could see inside and see the helicopter, I could take a picture of it. Right. >> Dad, I don't know. >> Well, I I do know. >> Obviously, you do see the signs everywhere that say no videography. It is a military installation. So, there's a reason why they have their signs there. Yeah, but ID on you. >> No, I don't. The First Amendment The First Amendment allows me to take pictures and video from a public place. I don't want to I don't want to go past their barrier at all. I'm staying on public and I want to take pictures. That's it. It's a It's a First Amendment >> protected activity. >> I understand. >> Okay. >> While the first deputy was respectful, everything changed when the second deputy arrived. Drunk on power, he acted like his word was the law. >> Hey, what's up? How you doing, sir? What's your name and badge number? >> What's your name and badge number, sir? >> Picture of the chopper and he came for what? He's saying he was coming closer to >> I didn't take a picture of the chopper yet, but I'm going to go and take pictures of something and they have to make >> Hey, sir. What's your name and badge number? >> You're being very unprofessional, sir. >> Very unprofessional. >> Stop. Stay away from here. Stay over there. >> Is that a lawful Is that >> walking towards us and stay over there? >> Is that a lawful order, sir? Yes, it's a lawful order. Until we complete our investigation, you aren't the Muslim. >> Am I What? What? What crime am I being suspected of committing, sir? >> Sir, >> preliminary investigation. >> What crime am I being suspected of committing? >> I can't talk over you. I will answer your question. >> I'm asking you a question. Am I being detained? >> You're still talking over me. >> Am I being detained? >> Can you stop talking? >> I'm asking you a question, sir. Am I being detained? >> So, I guess that's a no. >> Yes, you're being detained. >> I'm being detained. This is an illegal entertainment. I'm starting the clock. Illegal detainment. I'm starting the clock. Illegal detainment. >> Yeah, just hang out with me. You can you can take a picture of me all you want. >> Just hang out over here. They got to call. They call your supervisor. >> Yeah, I'm being illegally detained right now at uh 1:19 p.m. >> by a guy who wouldn't identify himself. What was your name again? >> Deputy Halfest. Detained for the record. You're just being interviewed right now because there was a 911. Can Can you tell me if he's a supervisor? >> Uh, well that we're talking to me right now. It doesn't matter if it's supervisor. Well, we're getting the supervisor. Um, we were called with a 911 call because all this is all we got. >> So what? So what? >> There was a suspicious person. That's all we got. Suspicious person in front of the uh the press department. >> Okay. >> The the military installation. So because of what I just told you before what happened at the capital building the federal because this is county jurisdiction. And now wait. So we're just trying to figure out what's going on. >> No, no, I understand that. You saying you have no ID on you? >> You're very You're very unprofessional, sir. >> You have any identification on you? >> What is your name, sir? >> Do you have an identification on you? >> I'm asking for your name, sir. >> I cannot talk to you until you provide the identification of me. >> You told me I was detained. Am I detained? >> You do not have identification. >> He told me I wasn't ID. >> No, that's not true. >> Don't. You're going to ruin your career for nothing. For nothing. Really? For it's a first all day long. Let me listen. Let listen. Just listen. Just listen to me. Okay, I'm going to explain it to you. Ready? >> I'm doing a first amendment. These men right here, they swore they swore an oath to the constitution >> to the first amendment. >> I'm doing a first amendment protected activity and you swore that same oath. >> So am I legal obligation to answer to answer? >> No, I do not. >> No, I do not. Fifth Amendment, sir. Don't you love it? >> Listen. >> No, it's not. You could do whatever you want to do, but I mean, at the end of the day, >> and you're not telling us your name. >> I don't consent to any searches or seizures. >> You have >> I'm I'm doing a first amendment protected activity, sir. I'm on public I'm on public property. >> I understand that you may have a law degree that's even better. That's even great. Then you would >> I just know the law. Maybe you don't learn it. >> Maybe you don't learn it. >> Listen, we're going to arrest you if you can't do that cuz I cannot let you walk away from me. You'll be making a very big a suspicious act of videotaping military installations. What is the crime? >> And you have no legitimate reason to be here. >> What is I don't need a legitimate reason to be in public places. You need to learn the law, sir. >> Your crime is obstructing government administration misdemeanor. >> You're going to get fired. >> You cannot put if you cannot. You're going to get fired, sir. >> It doesn't matter. What are you going to do with you giving me identification? >> Your obligation, your moral obligation is your obligation is to uphold the constitution, sir. >> So, you told me I wasn't detained, sir. Cuz I want to get out of here being stopped. You're not detained right now. So, I can walk away. Not right now. We got a question. >> But that means if I'm not free to go, that means I'm being detained. >> Sir, if I'm not free to go, I mean, this way. Just think about it this way. Play devil's ass. >> He told Wait, wait, wait one second. He told me I'm detained. You told me I'm not detained. And then I asked you. Wait, can I finish? And then I asked you if I'm free to go. >> I didn't say yes, you were free to go. >> Call Rock. He's not. >> I did not say you were free to go. >> Don't lose your job today. >> Given the deputy's awful attitude, the journalist had no choice but to demand a supervisor, hoping someone higher up would actually respect the law before things got further out of hand. >> You're going to get a complaint, sir. >> That's a list. You're gonna get a complaint. Add to the list. Huh? I'm sure I'm sure you've had >> I'm sure you've had a lot. >> Supervisor responding. >> Oh, he's got he's in he's in route. Okay. Hey, listen. Can I ask you a question? What's your name and badge number? >> Sure. My badge number is uh 499. >> 499. And your name and your name? >> My name is uh Deputy McCrave. >> Deputy McCrave. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. 499. >> Deputy McCrae. Uh let me ask you a question. >> Yeah. This officer, this uh deputy said I was being detained and then this deputy said I wasn't free to leave. >> So you'll be free to leave. >> So I was being detained, right? >> Actually, I was even coming out to talk to you to see if you were good enough and just see if you >> What's your name? Just to tell you don't even have a badge on, do you? >> I'm the captain. We come loose. 339 is my shield number. K is my last name. You are free to go, sir. If you want to wait for a supervisor, that's on you. >> Okay, great. Hey, how you doing, sir? >> What's going on? >> Are you supervisor? >> I am. Yes, sir. What's your name and badge number? >> Sergeant Toesco S104. Happy to help you. >> I just wanted to talk to you because I was out here on a public easement filming um doing a first amendment protected activity. >> Okay. >> And uh this officer came up to me and he was very cordial with me and you know he understood my rights and everything was okay. The only thing I didn't like is that he backed up the other guy who was his name was Court. I don't know. He said see he he spelled his name out to me. >> Okay. >> He came over here very aggressive. I tried to talk to him, get his badge number. He wouldn't give it to me at first. >> Okay. >> Told me I went, he was talking to the other guy over there. I went to go walk closer to him. He said, "Step back from me." I asked him if it was a lawful order. He said it was a lawful order. He said, "You're being detained." I said, "For what crime are you detaining me for, sir?" He said, "You're being detained. You can't leave." So, I asked this officer if I can leave. He said that I'm not free to leave. Okay. >> That they both said, he didn't say anything, but the the these two guys, they said, "I'm free to leave." I mean, I'm not free to leave. >> Okay. >> And I would like to make a complaint. >> Okay. Well, at that moment, right then and there, they were responding to a 911 call. All right. And so, they were in the middle of an investigation. Okay. >> But in order in order to detain somebody, so you have to have reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has been committed, is being committed. >> Exactly. However, they were in the middle of an investigation. That's what they were trying to >> They can't detain. They can't detain free citizens in investigation. That's that's they would they were doing an investigation. Absolutely. >> So So Sergeant, you're saying you're saying while they're doing an investigation, I just want to make this clear. While they're doing an investigation, they can detain a nonlawbreaking citizen. >> Well, they didn't know at that point. They didn't know if you were breaking the law breaking the law. >> Yeah, but that's not how the law works. I would like to file a complaint. >> Well, I'll take care of that. I'll speak to the deputy and I'll I'll take care of that. >> You can also give you the a phone number. to call internal affairs. If you'd like to talk to internal affairs and take it through them, you're more than welcome to do that. >> I would like to make a complaint with you. >> I would like to make a complaint with you and I'd like to phone number for internal affairs. >> Okay. I have your license uh or >> I want to make I want to make an I want to make an anonymous complaint, sir. >> You want to make an anonymous complaint? >> That is correct. I'll follow back up on a person >> then that's fine. Okay. So, you don't want to give any identifying information to us right now? Okay. So, what else can I do for you today? >> Take the complaint down. Do you do you do the complaint, sir? You're a supervisor, right? >> I'll write up a complaint. Yes. But I have nothing to go by. I don't know who you are. I don't know. I don't have any way to reach you. Anybody >> I'll give you I'll give you my I'll give you my phone number. I have video to cooperate it if you'd like to see it. >> I I don't really need that. I'm going off your word. >> If you'd like to make a complaint, I'll take that complaint. >> No, but what I'm saying is that I can show you video where I was being illegally detained. Sir, >> sir, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish right now. If you'd like to give us information, I will write their information down. I will give you I will give you my phone number. I will submit a formal complaint and we can go from there. >> I'll give you my phone number. You can reach me there. Follow up. >> Gentlemen, please take down whatever information he'd like to give us. Absolutely. >> In the end, no action was taken against the deputy. Up next is a case of several officers who tried to get physical with an independent journalist. All because he had a camera rolling in a probation department building. >> Report on DLC property. You have to step outside. >> Can you stay you could just take a step back, please? I'm in my building. I'm asking you. >> Well, you're in our building. >> Building now. It's closed. >> You're closing the building. >> I'm closing the building. Go. >> Okay, that's fine. You can You can leave now. You can leave now. >> Relax, >> sir. No. In 2023, an independent journalist was filming on public property inside the probation department in Newcastle, Delaware, when a group of rogue officers tried to shut him down, blatantly disregarding his First Amendment rights. >> You can't report on property. You got to step outside. >> Excuse me, sir. >> You cannot report on DLC property. You have to step outside. >> Who are you, sir? Officer Pal. >> Officer Pal and ask you to step outside. >> And what law would that be? >> It's the DOC private property. You cannot record. >> This is private property. >> Who owns property? >> Who owns the property, sir? >> Sir, you have to leave. >> This isn't private property, sir. >> Sir, you have to leave. >> This is public property, sir. >> So, you have to leave. >> So, this is public property. >> Record on state property, DOC property. That's the >> What law is that? >> It's not a law. It's a policy. You cannot record. >> It's a policy. >> Yes, sir. You can step outside and report. You just cannot report inside the building. >> Well, this is still a public building, public property. It's publicly accessible. >> It's a correctional institution, which is a secure facility. >> There's nothing secure about it. We just I just walked right in. >> No, no, >> there's secure areas in this building. Of course. Sure. And I don't plan on going into any of those secure areas, sir. >> You cannot record in the buildings. >> But that's not a law, sir. Respectfully, that's not a law. That's just a policy, sir. >> Oh, my name is Sean, sir. >> Sean what? >> Just Sean. >> Just Sean. >> Just Sean. >> Fair enough, Sean. >> Yep. No problem. Hey, how are you? How are you guys doing? >> I'm good. What's up? >> You mind if I get your name? >> My name's Supervisor McCarron. >> And my name is Sean, sir. And your name, sir? >> Supervisor Dalling. >> Supervisor Dling. >> Mhm. >> Nice to meet you guys. >> And what's your business here today? >> Oh, I'm just taking some pictures and video. I'm an independent journalist. I'm working on a story on the Department of Corrections here. >> Gotcha. Do you have any kind of paperwork saying you can do the property for doing that? >> Do I have any paperwork? >> Yep. >> Other than the United States Constitution, >> that doesn't apply here for this. We have our policy here. So, I would like you to >> The United States Constitution doesn't apply here. >> No. What you're trying to do does not apply to this. You cannot record here. We have a policy that says you cannot record in our building. >> And that policy trumps the United States Constitution of freedom of press. >> Anything. Our policy for this building. You are not allowed to be here in this building recording. You said you can't. So, I'm going to ask you to remove yourself from the building. Please, >> sir. I'm engaged in a constitutional protected activity. I'm not breaking any laws. I'm not You know, you're talking about your policy. I'm not breaking any laws. If you'd like, you can call law enforcement. >> Policy. It's our policy. >> If you'd like, you can call law enforcement so they can explain to you the laws. >> You can remove yourself. >> But that's not against the law. >> You're the same guy that was at the atm, right? >> Where? >> The women's prison. >> Oh, no. I never went there before. No, never. This is the first time I've been to a Delaware correctional facility here. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. No, I wasn't there. >> I didn't videotape. You have no business. >> Well, yeah. I want to do a Freedom of Information Act request, but I'm just taking some picture and video right now. But I'll get to the Freedom of Information Act request when I get to it. I'm just taking some pictures and video of the signage here. Again, this is not a secure area I'm in or anything like that. >> It is state property. >> Well, I understand that it's state property definitely funded by taxpayers. I understand that. I get it. It's just I'm not in any secure or restricted areas and your policy your policy doesn't apply to me. I'm not I don't work here. Respectfully, I don't work here. I'm not bound by your policies. I'm bound by the law and the United States Constitution, which you said doesn't apply here for some reason. >> You're a mistaken word, but >> but you said, >> we're not going to go back and forth. >> I don't want to either. >> Right. Okay. So, here's the thing. You have no other business other than being in the building. So, if I decide to remove from the building, then what? At this point, the officers scrambled to come up with flimsy excuses to justify why they were trying to interfere with the journalist's rights, exposing just how little they understood the law. >> Well, if you physically put your hands on me and remove me from the building, that would be a crime. Show me what crime is. >> Well, you cannot put your hands on people that aren't >> what crime, please. >> Yeah, that would be the crime of assault. And that would be assault you from the building out from the building if we have a right to say you leave our building. No, you cannot assault people that haven't broken the law. >> Say you can move our building. Do we have the right to say you can leave? >> No, because this is a public building. Is it closed to the public right now? >> State. I'm sorry. I like to if you're taking >> Yeah, I'll take whatever. >> Sure. >> All right. >> What do you got up there that says what? >> The bridge clinic. >> Where's inside the lobby? >> Oh, you can go >> inside the lobby where I where I'm not. >> No, it said no loitering. >> Yeah, I'm not loitering. I have a purp. Loitering is loitering is when you don't have a purpose, >> right? Loitering is when you don't have a purpose. You're just standing around not doing anything. >> No, no, no. I'm I'm told you engaging in a constitution protected activity of freedom of press. I'm in journalist working on a story. >> Your credentials, but a journalist. >> Oh, I I'm sure I could produce some credentials for you. >> Credentials right now, sir. >> Yeah. No, I don't have to give them to you though. >> No, you do. >> I don't. You ask me for credentials. >> Can you take Can you just take a step back, please? >> I'm in my building. I'm asking you in our building, but I'm asking you for your credentials. I'm asking >> I'm going to take a step back. I'm going to deescalate. >> Take a step back. I'm asking for your credentials. >> Hey, sir. How are you? >> Where's your credentials, sir? >> Sir, can I see your credentials? >> Your credentials is what? >> As a as an officer, this is my credentials. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, where's an officer with the Department of Correction? >> Where's your credentials, sir? >> Sir, I don't show credentials unless I am I am I'm forced to. >> You're a publicist. You >> I am. No, I'm a journalist. Right. >> Journalist. You can't see your credentials as a journalist, please. >> No, you can't. >> I can't. >> No, sir. You cannot. >> Okay. You cannot see my drone. You cannot see my credentials. You cannot see, you know, I don't need credentials. And you can't see my license. I'm not going to give you my ID. I haven't broken any laws. >> Again, look at the sign right next to you. Authorized visitors only. >> Right. Well, >> I'm currently not authorized to be in here because you have no business with any officer. >> Well, I do. I just told you I'm doing a foyer request and I'm working on a story here on the Department of Corrections. What do you guys have to hide in a public lobby? No, but but my question is did you get the proper information and credentials to do this? Did you contact the proper authorities in our building for the state to do this in the state building? >> No, because I don't I would if I needed to, but I don't need to. >> You said you're doing that. So, we're asking the same thing says here. You're not once again authorized to be in the building. >> Well, I am. You don't make that. You can't make that determination. >> We just made the determinations right here. It seems like you want to follow policies that apply that you want. >> I don't want to follow any policy. >> Okay. But you're saying what you want to do. >> I don't need to. I follow the law, sir. And but it's the law. >> That is not the law. That >> that is our building that we're responsible for for our building. >> No, that's not the law, sir. >> But it's our building. >> You can make a sign that says no >> black people allowed in a building. No white people allowed. >> Is that what you're saying? >> No. I said you could you said about being black people. You're being racist. >> I'm saying I said black and white. >> No, no, you didn't say white. You said I said black. If you let me finish. >> But you're being racist. If you let me Sir being racist, I would like you to leave the building. >> I'm not being racist at all, sir. I'm giving you an example that if you had a sign that said >> poor example >> why it doesn't matter. It does matter. It does. Once again, you're applying things that you want to imply that you know >> if you had a sign that said no yellow people, no white people, no black people, no whatever kind of people here. >> You're not cleaning up your actions. No, I'm not. I really do appreciate that. You're really a good worm. >> But see, I see >> if you you interrupted me before I could finish, you said you're being racist. >> No, because you were. But >> you're playing a race card. I don't know why, >> sir. But you are. So, I have rights, too. What you did? You defended my rights. You stepped over my rights. >> No, I didn't. >> Yes, you did, sir. >> No, I didn't. Not at all. You're being very disingenuous. >> Sir, you are because we're trying to tell you to remove >> I'm trying to give you an example of why policies. >> No, it's not. It's a It's It's a perfectly blind example. The fact that a law enforcement officer resorted to playing the race card to justify his unlawful actions revealed just how far these officers were willing to go and how little regard they had for the law that they were sworn to uphold. >> What I would like you to do at this point, we're going back to words and we do not feel comfortable with you in our building. We're asking you to leave the building. >> Right. And I have business to conduct here. I told you that. >> What business do you have to conduct? >> An open records request for the Department of Corrections is part of my story. That sir, >> fill it. >> How do you go about doing >> Why don't you tell me since I'm here? >> No, no, no, sir. You must know more than I do. So, how do you go about doing that, please? In our >> you go to the agency where you want to collect the public information and you request >> agency down in do that has all the records. So, you're in the wrong building with the information. >> You could submit the records form anywhere. >> No, you have to send a request a form to do so. So, until you have that form of request, you do not belong here. >> Of course, I do. I can write the request. >> Then write the request >> and go to do and get that and they'll provide all the information. So, in this building, you were in the wrong building to do that. >> No, sir. I'm not sir. >> I'm right where I knew where I was going when I walked in the door. >> Sir, you did not. You went to a building. If you want the records, our records are held down in Dover. So any request that goes through that must go through do sir. >> Did you know that? >> Obviously, it could go to any agency. >> No, no, no. The agency >> I'm very familiar with open records, >> but the agencies in that holds the record, sir. >> But you could but they could forward it. It's Listen, that's not how it work. >> Send a request. Did you send a request? >> Did you send a request? >> They put request in writing, sir. >> Did you send a request, sir? relax and deescalate. >> Did you send a request? >> Sir, deescalate, please. >> Sir, did you send a request? >> Facebook. >> Hi, ma'am. How are you? Nice to meet you. >> Who are you, ma'am? >> Uh, my name is Lori, but you can't be in here with a phone. So, sign right out. >> Why wouldn't I be able to be out here with in here with a phone? >> There's no cell phones in this building. You need to be out there. >> So, there's people that come in here that don't get checked for phones. How many people are in there >> check for phones? How would you know? >> How? Because I just saw a bunch of people walk in and you didn't check them for phones, ma'am. And I'm sure that way and they get checked for phones. >> I've seen people walk in this door, ma'am, without being checked for phones. >> There's no more arguments. I don't want to argue. You can call the police, ma'am. They're going to educate you on public photography and our constitutional rights. Ma'am, >> go ahead. Do what you need to do. Again, you're making things up. Now, phones aren't allowed in this building. >> We have a metal detector in fact that collects all the phone. We go back there and you go through. >> Sir, multiple people have walked through this door >> and they go through the metal detector over there, sir. >> Okay. That means that means wherever they go through the metal detector, that's where you don't allow phones, sir. >> You're making up our rules of our business. >> It's not your business. This is the people's business. That's what you're not understanding. >> You're not understanding. But I appreciate this, sir. This is a really good answer. I love it. So, we're going to continue doing this. I >> I mean, you could do whatever you'd like, sir. You could do whatever you'd like, >> sir. I can see you like to do the things your way, but I appreciate >> I like to do the things lawfully, >> sir. You do not >> I like to I like to exercise my rights peacefully. >> I'm not raising my voice. I'm not haven't done anything wrong to you. >> request and I told you the proper way to get a request which you refuse to do. So, >> right. And and I'm here also to document the public building. So, >> which you refuse to do so I'm also here to >> you're not following any type of rule or any type of only the ones you want to set. >> No, I follow the law. The law, sir. >> You just said the law and I gave you the example of where you have to go get their request. Right. No, but I just told you I am taking pictures in public. I'm working on a story on the Department of Corrections. What's your story? >> I've received many tips that the Department of Corrections has tyrant officers just like you who treat people in a way that you're treating me. I I could only I could only imagine how you if you're treating a member of the public and a journalist like this this way. I could only imagine how you would treat an inmate or someone on parole or probation. >> You're making assumptions, sir. You >> I I'm saying that's why I said I can only imagine how you would treat them. >> But here's the thing. You can always look up my name. You can ask any offender who knows me. So your assumption is totally wrong. So if you >> I wouldn't know that until I conduct my investigation, sir. >> You can create the narrative the way you >> I will conduct my investigation into you and I will figure that out and if it is true that you are >> that you are cordial with people. But your actions here don't display that today. >> At this point, what made the situation even more disturbing was how far these officers were willing to go, grasping at any excuse they could find to suppress a journalist's constitutional rights. >> Display this way. >> Excuse me. Please stick your hand out your pocket. Sir, there's nothing in my pocket. This is >> I don't know what's in your pocket. >> Okay. There's nothing. There's no >> Didn't take your hands out. >> There's nothing There's no weapons in my pocket. You just saw. I just showed you. >> No, I don't know what's in the bottom of it because >> Sir, you're you're being a tyrant. >> No, I am not being a tyrant. >> You are being a tyrant. You have no right to subject to search. >> That's why he can't do his nerative. >> Subject to search over there where you're subject to search. >> Oh, in this building. You are in this building. You are subject to search. >> Where does it say that? They asking you to take your hand out of your pocket. >> Sir, I just showed you there's nothing in my pocket other than a cell phone. >> It's a cell phone. You're not You shouldn't be scared. You both You You guys are armed. Why are you scared for it? >> Sir, >> you are scared. You tell I can't put my hand in my pocket cuz you're scared. >> I'm showing you what the sign says. You asked that. We showed you what the sign says, >> right? I'm not in a restricted area. This is a publicly accessible area. >> Nothing says restricted. >> I know that. >> It says any person or vehicle on property subject to search. >> This Okay. So, so violate my rights and search me then. If you think that sign makes you makes you uh have the authority to violate my rights, my fourth amendment right of unreasonable searches and seizures, search me. >> Unreasonable. >> It is unreasonable because there's nothing you could see there's nothing on me. >> Provide any ID. >> I don't what what about my ID would make me make you feel safe. >> You're scared obviously. So, what about my ID or credentials would make you feel safe? I mean, you're acting scared by saying get your hands out of your pocket. That's acting scared, sir. >> That's actually being >> I'm not scared. You guys have weapons. I'm not scared. What do I be scared? What would I be scared for? You guys have weapons. I don't. All I have is a camera. That's all I have. >> Great thing about this whole thing is you are creating a narrative, which I like. >> You're creating a narrative to fit your We step away from their window cuz that that's something totally different. So, you step away from they're conducting business at their window. >> I mean, if somebody comes up, I'll move out of the way. >> Once again, I ask you something polite. You're going to >> Did I not just move out of the way? >> No, but you're tell what you're going to do. If somebody comes up, do what? >> I will move out of their way. now out of the way. >> No, but they're not in the I'm not in anybody's way. Again, you're just you're just trying to feed me directives because that's what you're used to doing. You're used to people following your directives without question. >> Are you finished speaking? >> They're used to following your directives without question. No, I'm not finished speaking, sir. You're used to people following your direction without question and without because if not, you will violate their parole. You will do this, you'll do that. I am I am free to stand where I want, sir. I'm not blocking anybody. If somebody comes up to the window, I know how to move out of people's way, sir. You don't need to tell me to do that. I am finished, sir. Yeah. Go ahead. >> But it has nothing to do about directive. It's having a conversation >> this way. I don't want you to be in front of their window. >> Sure. When I when I asked you to step back from me, you said, "This is my building. I'm not going to step away from you." >> And then I didn't move back, did I? >> You didn't. I moved away because I was going to deescalate the situation. >> But either way, I'm asking you to either move away from their window. I'm not blocking anybody. As you can see, there's no one else in here. I'm not. And if somebody came up, I'm an adult. I know how to move out of people's way. Sir, >> has nothing to do about being an adult. It's simply that it seems like you have a problem even following or listening to people or even making >> But why would I need to listen to you, sir? >> Some amends, right? >> But why would I need to live? What authority do you have over me that I need to listen >> or make some amends? >> Amen. >> Amen. Do you know what amends means? >> Okay. >> Amends means that you are making amends for something you did wrong. I haven't did anything wrong. All right. >> In your mind, in >> in in anybody's mind, what if I if I've broken the law, you should arrest me. >> You're loyering. >> I'm not loitering. Loitering is when you have no purpose. >> You have no purpose. >> I do have a purpose here. I've explained that to you multiple times. Just because you don't like my purpose. That's different. You might not like the purpose I'm here for. >> For this building, >> that might be your prerogative on this is not your building. You don't own it. You don't command the building. >> I didn't say it was my building. I said this building. >> Right. As you just said, this is a whole different agency here that's inside of this building. So, obviously, you're not the end all be all for inside this building, correct? >> The officers clearly hadn't expected anyone to push back. The moment their authority was questioned, their confidence unraveled, revealing just how unprepared they were to justify their actions. >> You're not even the only agency in this building, so how can you just make the rules and say, "You have no business here." You could say that to anybody. >> If I had a Fox 35 news jacket on and and a big camera crew with me, you wouldn't say that. You'd be like, "Oh, you know, we're not doing anything wrong here." >> Be a little more respectful. We ask them to kind of move a different way. I think they would still try to show credentials, >> right? >> Oh, they would show credentials, right? They probably would because that's their policy. My policy in my company is I don't show credentials or my identification. I I don't need to explain to you what my company is. So, you you will know what my company I No, I'm exercising my right. You are you said you you identified yourself to me as law enforcement. I have a fifth amendment right to remain silent and not give you any information. That is my right. Why is it that exercising rights becomes a problem, sir? I'm exercising the right as well. >> And you refuse to do it. That's fine. >> That's fine. >> What right are you exercising, sir? >> Danny Becker for Miss Bronner. >> Thank you. >> Hey, how are you? Is that a personal or work for one? Sir, >> don't ask that question. Thank you. Oh, >> I just wanted to know so I can request the footage. You're >> not requesting any footage. Thank you. >> It's He's recording something that >> you're recording something. >> I Yeah, I'm not a government official. >> I'm not a government official. >> You're creating public record by recording with the cell phone. >> No, I'm not. I'm not a government official, sir. >> He is a government He can record. Is anybody stopping him from recording? No. But he is a government official. He's a public servant. That means while he's recording, while he's on duty receiving taxpayer money, he's creating a public record. And if you if you if you destroy that record, that would be destroying public records. Okay. >> He's on lunch. He's off duty. How do you know that? >> So, he's just recording for his own benefit. That's great. >> He's exercising his his First Amendment rights. Fantastic. I love it. Great. I love it. >> Fine. It doesn't matter. >> I know it doesn't matter. Really doesn't. Why do law enforcement officers get so scared when people have their hands in their pockets? Like, do you think everybody's out to hurt you? Is that what it is? Cuz you're the one that that Do you think everybody's trying to hurt you, officer? >> No, you don't have to comment. You left the conversation. >> I mean, he said, "Take your hands out of your pockets. Why? A lot of officers I see say that." Why? Why can't a free man or woman have their hands in their pockets? >> Speed, so keep speaking, please. >> I mean, you've been talking more than me. >> No, I don't think so. I think your perception is a little off there, but that's okay. >> All right. >> It's okay. >> All right. >> I noticed that the people coming in and out have not given you any kind of permission for you to post any of this video. >> Oh, I don't need their permission. >> Yes, you do. >> I don't. >> Yes, you did. >> You guys are just You guys, all you're doing, all you're doing right now is is just demonstrating to the people. >> Yeah, we don't know anything. >> You're that you that you don't know what you're talking about. >> Yes, I do. You're demon. >> I think all of us don't know what we're talking about. >> You're demonstrating to the people who are going to watch the video. >> It's okay. >> That you don't know what you're talking about. >> It's okay. >> There is no expectation of privacy in public. >> It's okay. >> That is the same type of logic that allows you to have cameras in public areas. Did you ask me for my permission to record me? >> Nope. >> It's okay. >> All right. >> Excuse me, sir. >> I know. I'm I'm okay. You're okay. >> You're just asking. You're just walking and I know but you're not going to go any further near my officer. So I'm making sure you stay pretty far away from officer. >> I know just it could be considered and you know >> it could be but I'm ask you to stay close. >> Disorderly conduct walking in front of people. >> It's okay. >> A little close. >> I understand sir. It's okay. >> I'm going to try walking away from you. >> I understand. But you're not able to go into the lobby. But you're okay. >> It's a secure lobby. Why would I go in? >> No. Doesn't matter sir. Just making sure everything's okay. >> Everything's fine. >> I understand. that you're not going to be in these conversations. No need for you to be there. It's something that has nothing to do with you. >> I think he's getting educated. I think going on. >> Eventually, a police officer arrived briefly easing the tension as there was hope he might deescalate the situation. Perhaps because he actually understood the law. >> Hello. >> Hey, sir. How are you? >> Doing well. How are you, sir? >> I'm doing well. You mind if I get your name in bad number, sir? >> Yes. Please. >> Nice to meet you, sir. >> So, what can we do today? What are we doing? Let's see. >> Oh, I'm I'm an independent journalist. My name is Sean. I'm just working on a story here on the Department of um corrections here >> and uh just staying in the publicly accessible areas. I'm not going to any restricted areas, any enclosed areas. Just getting some pictures, some B-roll footage, and that's it. >> Okay. Sounds good to me. Can you just wait here for a second while I talk to these gentlemen here? >> Oh, sure. You can go ahead and talk to them. That's fine. Go ahead. >> All right. So, can I just talk to you outside? See what's going on? >> Yeah, I mean, we can talk right here, sir. That's fine. >> All right. So, what business do you have here? >> Like I said, I'm engaged in a constitutionally protected activity. I'm just taking some getting some B-roll footage in the publicly accessible areas here. >> Um, that's my business here, sir. >> Do you have all the footage that you need? >> Oh, no, not yet. No. >> Okay. So, what else do you need? >> I need some more B-roll footage of There's a lot of different public notices signs here that I'm investigating and plus I just have the right to be in public. There is no law against being in public and recording. >> Here's the issue we have here. So, this is parole probation, >> right? We have people who are reporting to the POS here, you know, dealing with sensitive information, you know, stuff that's not private to the public and up front, >> right? That would that would be why it's behind the window. >> This is still a correctional facility. So, yeah, you are are technically in a common area, but this itself is a private property. So, I understand you're a journalist trying to do some work. Great. But outside of that scope, you really can't be out here doing what you're doing now, unless you actually have you're doing your business. So, >> right. Do you mind if I speak to a supervisor? >> Yeah, absolutely. We we'll get to there right right now. So, obviously, I'm trying to get as much information as I can right now so I can relate to my supervisor who will come here. Can you start right for a second and he'll he's going to explain to you the same thing I'm explaining to you. >> I hope not cuz this is a public area. This being a correctional facility doesn't >> common area. It's not public here up front. This is state property. So unless you have official >> state property, public property, it's the same thing. >> Unless you have official business here, >> you do what you do what you like here. You can submit whatever paperwork you like for your investigative, you know, journalism. Cool. Great. But speaking to these two gentlemen here, you you haven't provided any sort of credentials or paperwork for you to obtain that information, >> right? I don't I don't need to provide credentials to anybody. I don't need to provide my ID. This is United States of America. We are free to enter into publicly accessible areas and record law enforcement. It's it's a first amendment protected activity, sir. >> So, right now you're trespassing onto state government property. >> I'm not If you read the trespass statute, that is not what this trespass statute says. >> Okay. But there's a sign out front that says >> doesn't say no trespassing. >> No trespassing, no loitering. If you see right there, >> this is not loitering. Loitering. The definition of loitering is standing around not doing anything. I am in I'm not doing I'm doing something. But again, like I said, this is >> there's been other people that have come inside of this building. They're just they're mad because I have a camera and that's that's why they're upset. But there's been other people that have come inside of this building and just stood right there for 30 minutes and they didn't say, "Hey, what are you doing inside of this building again?" And that's what it comes to when it goes to court. If this goes to court, if it needs to go that route, I I've unfortunately been arrested nine times and I've had all charges dismissed because everything I do is within the law. Um, I've I'm in the Second Circuit right now, uh, filing federal lawsuits. So, okay, I just want to make it clear. I do trainings with law enforcement officers about First Amendment training across the country. >> I understand our position here that these two gentlemen here are have gone out of the way to try to accommodate you as best as they can. >> Well, you don't know that cuz you weren't here, >> right? So, that's what I'm saying. Have you gotten everything you needed? >> No, I I'm I'm not finished with my business here, sir. >> So, let's do this. go ahead and finish your business here and you're you're going to have to leave cuz right now you're not conducting any sort of business that's appropriate to this facility. Are you checking in with the probation officer or >> No, I'm not on probation or parole. No >> parole. Exactly. So, >> no, but this is not just a probation officer. This is this is not just a probation office. You have the administrative >> Right. It's that is not >> that is not a law, sir. And there is more offices in here besides >> That is not a law. But here's the thing. There is official business being conducted here. You have people coming in who probably don't want to be seen on a video reporting to their >> That doesn't matter. There's no reasonable You're recording people, right? You're recording right now, sir. >> Again, this you don't get their permission. >> It came as no surprise when the officers quickly took their colleagues side, revealing just how far they were willing to go to shield one of their own. >> I don't think we're sir, I don't think we're going to agree. >> But I'm I'm letting you know, >> right? No, I don't think we're going to agree. I would just like to speak to a supervisor and if the supervisor if the supervisor says cuz if the supervisor says that I'm not authorized to be here and he'll arrest me then that gives me what's called that's let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me just finish the same damn >> All right. And that's fine. And then I will have standing in federal court to to handle in federal court like I've done in the past. That's fine. And we can all move on. Take it. No, that's fine. No, it's fine. You have no official business. >> I do have official business here, sir. >> All right. So, go ahead and go and finish your official business here. Right now, you have no business being here cuz again, this is private property. It's not private property. >> You're not authorized. You guys are checking in with probation. >> It is not a private and there is not this is not just a probation building. >> This is not just a probation building, sir. >> This is not just Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. >> Realize this is probation building. >> They are here with us >> and they're currently closed. >> And they're currently closed. So therefore, we control the building. >> Yeah. Right. So what you're >> Well, you don't you don't but at the end of the day and you'll see in the federal law. Okay, that's fine. >> Until you show we're going back and forth. There's people. Thank you. I appreciate that. They're victims. Okay. Like you, right? Like you. >> There are people here are victims. People here like you, right? >> Like you also at this point. Who else is in the lobby at this point? >> So you're the only victim here apparently according to you >> because of the color. >> Because of the color of your skin. >> Two people. >> There's two. Yeah. >> Okay. So I have the authority at this point to Here. I'm back. >> We're closing the building. Building is closed. >> Building now. It's closed. >> You're closing the building. >> I'm closing the building. Go. >> Okay, that's fine. You can close. >> You can leave now. You can leave now. >> Relax, sir. No, >> I'm leaving. If it's closed, >> it's closed. >> So, no one else is going to come in here. >> Sir, it's closed. >> I just want to make sure the building is closed. >> It's closed officially right now. >> You're You have the authority to close the building. >> I have the authority to close the building. >> That's not a problem. The building is closed officially. So, if anybody else comes in here, I'm going to come. Look, this guy's coming in here right now. It's not closed. He's coming in. >> We're closed. >> Thank you for taking care of that. >> You can officially leave now. >> All right. Hey, listen. Listen. I appreciate if if you're there's nothing else to discuss. >> I'll finish my state. I'll save my state. >> Can you please leave our building now? >> If you're closed, that's fine. Can you Can you leave our building? >> I'll be back. I'll be back when you're open. >> I appreciate. Thank you. When we open up again, but right now, please leave your building. >> Okay, no problem. >> If it's closed, it's closed. >> How you guys doing? How are you? >> It's closed, trooper. >> In the end, no arrests were made.