All right, mic check, mic check. Looking good. Let's see here. Oh, let me adjust the lighting. There we go. All right. Okay, and you know, letting YouTube connect and do its thing as always. >> [clears throat] >> All right, if you don't like commentary, I'm not offended. There will be commentary, so there's your warning. All right. So, quick intro of what's happening, cuz not everyone heard about this. I have heard murmurings about it because sometimes I'll be on Dawson Speaks channel, and I feel like he was how I heard about this first. I didn't realize Okay, let me give y'all a couple things. This happened in 2019. So, and the trial didn't happen until The crime happened in 2019. The trial didn't happen until 2025, November 2025. And the And it only lasted 4 days. So, LaTasha Daniels is accused of shooting and killing the pastor she was having an affair with, and she shot his wife, but the wife survived. Um and apparently she said uh How did she say? Oh, you broke my heart when she shot him. Uh let's see. The wife is testifying today so, this took place They wanted the trial to place on November 4th, 2025. Let me see here. So, even Oh, on the fourth day, the jury already reached its verdict everything. So, then uh the sentencing happened a a few months later after that in February. So, Oh, and because we already know this, this is already happened, I'm going to let you know. She was sentenced to 20 years for second-degree murder and 11 months and 29 days to run concurrently for reckless endangerment. Okay. So, we'll go ahead and start. Roderick Perry was uh a pastor of a church. He was a husband. And he was a man who enjoyed life. He was 36 years old at the time of his death. He wasn't perfect. He had flaws, much like a lot of people have flaws. In the fall of 2016, he was one of the pastors at a church in Little Rock. He um knew the defendant through his role at that church. She was a member of the church. And I believe she was a leader of a life group in that church. She was going through a divorce or had recently divorced. They talked about that. Um a sexual relationship between the two of them began sometime around February of 2017. And you'll hear that that relationship went on until sometime at the end of 2018 or maybe even going into 2019. It went on for several years. Toward the end of 2018, I believe it was around October, Mr. Perry and uh his wife took a job or Mr. Perry took a job, and his wife moved here, moved to Collierville, in Shelby County, because he took a job at Mississippi Boulevard Church here, uh away from each other. I don't know I don't know the reasons that he decided that, but he did when they moved back here. On April the 4th of 2019, the defendant left Little Rock. She stopped at a gun store in Sherwood, Arkansas, where she purchased a Ruger 9 mm handgun. And she purchased ammunition. And she drove the 2 and 1/2 or 3 hours from there to Collierville, Tennessee, where she showed up somewhere 9:00 and 10:00 that night at Mr. and Mrs. Perry's residence. Mr. Perry wasn't there, but Mrs. Perry let her in. And they sat and talked for a while till Mr. Perry came in. Mrs. Perry knew the defendant from when they were in the church together in Little Rock. In fact, the two of them played tennis once a week. Um Mrs. Perry considered herself to be friends with the defendant. And so, when she showed up at the door, she let her in and they talked. The defendant waited there until Roderick Perry got home. They talked for a few minutes more, and she said, "Well, I'm going to leave. I don't want to bother y'all anymore." Mr. and Mrs. Perry were about to walk her out the door when the defendant pulled the 9 mm handgun that she had purchased 3 or 4 hours earlier. And she shot Mr. Perry multiple times. The medical examiner will testify they pulled five bullets out of his body. She also shot Mrs. Perry. And she was kneeling beside her husband trying to get him to quit, to trying to help him and trying to get the defendant to quit shooting. She was still on the scene with the gun when the police department arrived. You will hear that the bullets that the medical examiner re- covered from Mr. Perry's body matched the Ruger 9 mm that she purchased from the gun store in Sherwood, Arkansas. TBI, Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, found analyzed those, and those matched. You'll hear that the shell casings, seven, I believe, recovered from the apartment were fired from the Ruger that she purchased from the gun store in Sherwood, Arkansas. There was the bullet recovered from the scene at the apartment that also was fired from the gun that she bought from the uh sporting goods store in Sherwood, Arkansas. You'll see video from the sporting goods store in Sherwood, Arkansas, that shows the defendant going into the store, purchasing the ammunition and the gun, and leaving. You'll see the credit card that she purchased it with, and the receipts with the last four of the credit card match, showing the date and the time that she purchased the handgun. She had all kinds of time to think about what she was doing. At the end of the proof, we're going to ask you to find her guilty as indicted in counts one, two, and three of the indictment. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was a very short opening statement because I'm looking at the timeline, and the defense has a much longer opening statement than that, so. All right, y'all. Definitely premeditated, definitely. All right. Um we're about to hear Let's see. Yep, defense defense's opening statement next. LaTasha Daniels is a woman who has spent her life surrounded by men who hurt them. Not all of those were physical abuse. Some were emotional abuse. But from a very young age, LaTasha listened at night. She was her two little sisters, she saw her father beat her mother. Her father was a minister in the church, well-respected in the community. Being his daughter meant something in her town. She knew she could never tell anyone the truth about what happened behind closed doors. When Latasha was 17 years old in high school, she got pregnant. And her father mandated that she marry. So, at 17 years old, she married a man named Rodney. She and Rodney were married for a while, and then he um eventually strayed in the relationship. She caught him cheating. And she was pregnant. And that was the first time that Latasha tried to commit suicide. She felt like she had failed her marriage, kids, her father, her family. And that they would all be better off without her. She tried to take her life. The ongoing struggle with mental health would continue throughout Latasha's life. Her next marriage was to a man named Brian. Brian was not physically abusive. But very shortly after Latasha and Brian got married, he completely shut her out emotionally. When she would come home, she would sit in the parking lot or the driveway and cry. I'm sorry. I'm taking notes and trying to make sure I'm paying attention to the tape. So, she was She got married at 17. Um to a guy named Rodney. I got that. Rodney, she caught him cheating. Then she had self-deletion thoughts. Got that. Did she Didn't they Then say she married somebody named Brian? Is that what she just said now? Like the the second husband was named Brian? Let me know. She knew that she walked into that house, a house that is supposed to be a home filled with love and filled with comfort and acceptance, she would get And then he would sit on the couch and watch TV and fall asleep on it. And that went on for 8 years. And at this certain point, Latasha found herself so starved for love and for attention that she sought out counseling. She tried to get her husband to go with her to marriage counseling. It didn't work. So, Latasha decided that she needed spiritual guidance. She needed to know that if she was going to be getting divorced, that she could find that amends with God for another marriage failure. Now, Broaddus Perry was an assistant pastor at St. Mark's Baptist Church in Little Rock, one of the biggest Baptist churches in Little Rock. He was one of the pastors that selected, among the thousands of church members, selected about 40 people to be life group leaders. Latasha was one of those people selected. And the group that she was in was one of about seven or eight people that Broaddus Perry was directly over. And they had a very close, tight-knit group. Broaddus Perry took very particular interest in his group. Okay. Let's Let's start with the odds, first of all. She said out of thousands, she he selected 40 to be life group members. If you grew up in a church, you already know, first of all, the people kind of put themselves forward, so the thousands didn't put themselves forward to be a life group leader in the first place. So, it's not out of thousands of choices. It's the people that kind of put themselves forward. They may do something in other ways uh and catch the attention, so that might be some uh pastors are good for saying uh God told me. And depending on where you are in your spiritual life, you might listen to them and they don't mean it. They just want you to do something. So, you know, just depends. So, let's not say as if by some magical thing he already had her his eye on her and all this other stuff. No, she, as long with the other 40, I'm sure, you know, they either showed something, did something. You catch the attention of the pastor in some kind of way. You're doing another type of service in the church. You You know, you're just one of those people that's greeting everybody. It's something though. So, okay, but the defense I see what they're doing, but I'm just like we can't let that pass like it was just fate. No. And while Latasha was struggling, seeking this spiritual covering, she reached out to Pastor Perry. Because she trusted him. She felt like she could be safe talking to him. She did not seek him out for a relationship. They met, had a counseling session, where Latasha poured her heart out to him for almost 2 hours in tears, talking about the complete emotional neglect, the lack of love, the lack of attention, and how it made her feel in the marriage that she was going through with him. And Pastor Perry listened, but seemed distracted to Latasha. Several weeks had passed and she was still struggling with these feelings, and so she reached out for a second session. And when she talked to Pastor Perry at the beginning, she said, "I appreciate you meeting with me, but I don't understand why when we met, you had your hands shoved in your jacket the whole time I was talking to you." Pastor Perry told her that he was doing that so that he could maintain his professionalism. I don't plan on having this many pauses. I really don't because I don't need them for trial watching. But are you telling me I know all this can happen, but are you telling me that it was out of place that he had his hands in his jacket pocket? And it made It was enough for her to make a comment on it? I'mma say this, two adults went in doing things and they made mistakes. It shouldn't have been a fatal mistake is what I'm looking at. Just That's just where I'm coming from. Um and then to be out there becoming friends with the wife, playing tennis with her, like all right now. Um And both of them were dirty for that. Him for knowing his wife is playing with his and the mistress for being all up in the wife's face and all that stuff. Uh they were wrong for that. And then he obviously put his wife in danger because the wife got shot, too. But you can't tell me that his How did he have his hands shoved in his pocket? Cuz you'd have to have it in a odd way for me to actually comment on your hands being in your pockets like that? That's weird. As she was pouring her heart out to him, all he could do was think about sleeping with her. And when this counseling session started, within minutes, he grabbed her chair, pulled her to him, and began kissing her. And this woman who had been so starved for love and affection, is finally receiving that. She did not seek it out. Okay, she did not seek it out. When people go through trauma, they definitely go to the church. I get that and it sucks when you go to a church with the predatory pastors and preachers because then that they'll just take advantage of that. They'll use you up for your services you provide to the church and then some are actually predatory for, you know, relationship-wise. So, he was wrong for that and she wasn't wrong on the first time because she If the story's true to how the defense is telling it, she didn't expect that to happen, but it happened and then, you know, that's when you're like, "Oh, mhm, this is not This is not what I came for. I came for prayer." But I agree with y'all, she needed therapy. That's what she really needed. Uh yeah. Yeah, no discipline cost him his life. It It did. He was 75. It It really did. As she was receiving in that session that was supposed to be counseling her through her divorce became the first time that Latasha Daniels and Broaddus Perry had sex. Immediately after that, Broaddus Perry and Latasha started a relationship. But there were rules to be in a relationship with Broaddus Perry. She immediately had to download the Confide app. Confide is similar to Snapchat, where you open the message, you read it, and it disappears, and it's gone forever. That was the only means of communication that she was allowed to have with him, through that app. Broaddus Perry traveled with the church. Pastors sometimes had their trips. Church groups had their trips. Latasha was to go on those trips. She had to pay her own way. He could not have his credit card tied to her plans. He's a trifling cheater is what I'm hearing, or was. So sorry, rest in peace. But um Yeah, I didn't catch that. So when he kissed her, that was in the church, so they ended up having sex in the church? Because I see who said that. Jacqueline said, in the church they got busy. You're right, cuz I was like, where was the setting again? And then um you know what time it is if the person you're with says I can only communicate you to you with an app for disappearing messages. There's no pretense there. Like it is what it is. Also, he couldn't he couldn't withdraw cash from the ATM and pay her way? Just cuz he couldn't use his card? There's other ways to access funds, so that just tells where he placed her and I'm okay. He was predatory. I do not take that away. I'm just listening. I'm sorry. I just have commentary, that's all I'm saying. She was expected to be there. And while they were on trips, they would stay together in a hotel room. If Latasha was inside the hotel room, she was required to be naked, no matter what. If she was inside the hotel room. And if she had the audacity to put on clothing inside a hotel room, he would get angry with her. I'm going to say this right now. I'm sorry. I do not mean to interrupt this much, but I have so much to say. I want to tell you right now. This sound like some fools, and I know they're going to talk about her mental state and stuff, and maybe I'll change my mind, but right now I can see what kind of time I'm on, and I am like, this is ridiculous. This is so ridiculous. There's like there's no playing around of what he thought she was for. There's no wining and dining, there's no nothing. Like you have a purpose, only talk to me through this app. So how do you how do you get to the point you fall in love with someone that's already treating you like you might as well be transactional. You might as well be do this for a living. It this feels impersonal. Um I know maybe he'll change and they'll get to that, but if you can't stand someone not being sympathetic to what this woman is talking about, I am not sympathetic right now, so I'm not for you, cuz I'm not feeling this at all. He went so far as to say, if we are ever together and I am suffering from a medical emergency, do not call 911. You call Pastor Pointer. He can get the help. You don't do it. You get as far away from me as you need to get from the other because I don't know. By the end of their relationship, one of the rules was that Latasha was required to answer him with either yes, sir, or no, sir. Broaddus had a lot of rules. And Latasha had fallen so deeply in love with him after being so starved in her past relationship, that she was willing to follow him. She was willing to do whatever he wanted her to do. Yes, he loved her. She loved him. There was a lot of guilt and a lot of shame around this relationship, though, because she knew that he was married. Now, she was in the process of a divorce, but she knew Tabitha. Broaddus was interested in a unique lifestyle. Something called ethical non-monogamy. Basically, what ethical non-monogamy teaches is that as long as everyone in the relationship is informed and honest, that even from a marriage, you can have extramarital relationships. Broaddus told Latasha this is a lifestyle that he wanted, and that Tabitha would allow him to have it. She was willing to let I need common sense to kick in, because there's no way that he said I love you and tell her and she could only be naked in the room. There was no let's get to know each other, no talking, no no intimacy. It was just the thing. And then he said, if I'm dying if I'm dying, call Pastor Pointer. So Pastor Pointer dirty too. So if if he married, I hope the wife looked at him sideways when this came out, because Pastor Pointer he doing some things. Um What was I going to say? Oh, the ethical non-monogamy. That doesn't make sense. He can't say he's in that type of relationship, aka open relationship, if he if he you can't even call 911 if he's dying. Come on. been engaged in this ethical non-monogamy. And Broaddus told Latasha, we'll all be you and Tabitha will be sister wives. You will live with us. We will have a life together. I just had to told him, but I will. But I will. And so despite the shame and the guilt from this relationship, Latasha proceeded. Thank you, ma'am. As part of this ethical non-monogamy, Broaddus had a chat group. And it all started around this book that is kind of the guide book for ethical non-monogamy. The book is called The Ethical [ __ ] Broaddus made Tabitha, I'm sorry, made Latasha read that book, because it outlined what he was allowed to do. In the big group chats about this book, Broaddus developed this kind of side chat that was with him and two other women, where they discussed their ethical non-monogamy. Hours and hours and hours, Broaddus talked to them via video about how Tabitha was on board with his ethical non-monogamy. So much that when he said, "Okay, I want to do this," Tabitha said, "You should do it with Latasha. She's your person. Let me talk to her. I'll break the ice." Tabitha selected Latasha. It's what Broaddus was telling the other women in this group, and that Tabitha was completely on board because he was being so honest and so open and so truthful with her, that he was so honest that not only could he have Latasha, he could have another woman, too. He talked about these conversations that Tabitha would have with Latasha, the role that she played in their relationship. I have some things. I have some I have a couple things. The first thing is and I I actually want to know the answer to this. Why do so many men think they can have sister wives when they can barely afford the wife they have? Like you aren't What's the benefit of the women being sister wives? Like you cuz it They always try to point to other countries that have polygamy, right? But those that have polygamy, the the wives are good. They're taken care of. You get over here to America, they done took out all the parties and I just can have a lot of women, and that's just what it is. Like no, you are supposed to be very well off, and they are supposed to be living in lap of luxury. Like it's not So, okay. Um this group chat. So, he's basically rotating women out like hot cakes. It just doesn't sound to me where this could be misunderstood. Because I know, okay, let's say he did lie about Tabitha was okay with it. I'm still going to ask every time. If Tabitha is okay with it, why didn't y'all talk about it while y'all were together sometime? Maybe they'll say they did. Maybe the defense will say they did have conversations. Why can you not call Tabitha, who's probably his emergency contact, and 911 on his behalf? Why does Pastor Pointer have to be a middleman if it's all love and sisterwives? Tabitha had no idea that her husband was in this relationship for 2 years. Despite the fact that he was telling these women that she was completely on board and involved. And despite the fact that he was telling Latasha that she was on board with this lifestyle and that it would be okay. They would all be able to do this together. And so these the relationship goes on. They take trips. Latasha buys him lavish gifts. They are happy. They're seeing each other almost every day. They start drinking bourbon together. They start going to cigar lounges together. They start biking together. They join a biking group. They would run together. relationship that Latasha thought Tabitha had Thank you. You want to show me And towards the end of 2018 Brutus Perry got offered a position at Mississippi Boulevard Baptist Church here in Memphis. It's a big church here in Memphis. It's a prestigious church to be a pastor at here in Memphis. And Brutus talked to Latasha about whether he should accept this offer and she said, "Yes, this is a huge opportunity. Absolutely." She organized the going away party for him and Tabitha. After Brutus moved in October of 2018, he would come back to Little Rock. He still had his orthodontist in Little Rock, so he'd come back to get his braces tightened. And when he would come in town he and Latasha would pick up one another. But things did start to change in the way Brutus was treating And around March the 15th Brutus came in town and texted Latasha I'm here at the hotel. Come in. And she went. And on this day she had the audacity to be wearing clothes when he walked in. He got very angry with her. And she apologized. And they proceeded to have sex. This was not the day that they made love. This is a day that he had sex with her. He was demanding and degrading. Oral and anal requested with her. Which is something that he had never done before. Pulling her hair. Shoving himself in her mouth. Hurting her. Slapping her. Now, I do hate it if at any time she was forced to have non-consensual sex. I hate that. That's That's not You know, it took a long time for some laws to catch up that just cuz you're in a relationship doesn't mean that uh the the man has the right to your body at any time. Like, you still should be consenting each time y'all do. Like, it shouldn't be all just because you're my wife or whatever. Like, or we were dating, so there can't be any uh like rape or whatever, but it can. The laws are catching up to that. So, I hate that cuz I don't want anybody to go through that no matter what. Um There are people with kinks, so I just I don't know if this is to bolster her defense, but there are people with kinks about slapping, spanking. I'm trying not to go too explicit, but even rough oral sex, people are into that stuff. So, I don't know if now it's being turned into this because at this point you're on trial for murder, so or if he was always or he just did this and that's not how it normally was with them. Nothing that she had ever experienced with him before. She felt so used and humiliated and broken by that experience with him. This man that she loved so much and had put so much of her life into for him to treat her like a piece of trash. with a gun. And that became the second time that she attempted to commit suicide. The next day she came back to the hotel room with the gun. And she told him, "You hurt me so bad. I want you to hurt like I hurt." And she wanted to kill herself in front of him so that he knew what it felt like to break. To break because of somebody that you say that you love. He took the gun away from her. And they talked. Brutus always knew what to say to Latasha to get her to do what he wanted. And he did on this day. Latasha did not kill herself. But she was still with him. They took some time apart. Still talking on the phone, but not seeing each other in person. And on April the 4th Latasha of 2019 Latasha opened her computer and saw a message from Brutus. It said something to the effect of our time has come to an end. And he disappeared. He ended the 2-year relationship that was supposed to be a life with a disappearing And Latasha said I was right to get a gun. And she found herself so deep down in that dark hole that God could not reach her. And she didn't think that she deserved for God to reach her. She didn't have a gun anymore because Brutus had taken it from her. Around 3:00 that afternoon she wrote a letter to her family. And left it in the hotel room. And she told him goodbye. She told him that she was sorry. She knows that he he doesn't love her. Her life would end. And he didn't love her anymore. Around 4:00 that afternoon she didn't even take her purse with her. She got in her car. She took her license and the debit She went and walked with the gun to the end of the hike. She had chosen a place that was of significance to her to go and commit suicide. It was in Jacksonville, Arkansas. Jackson Park. And as she was driving down the interstate she just kept thinking if I could just see him. If I could just talk to him, he would understand. We can be okay together. This doesn't have to happen. I just I need to see him one more time. Even if this is where this goes, I just need to see him one more time. And she looked up and saw the exit in the floor. She found herself in downtown Memphis, which is a place that she is not accustomed to. And she knew because they were such regular communicators, she knew that on Thursday nights Broaddus would be at the cigar lounge. So, she went to the cigar lounge. As she was walking up, Broaddus walked out. She knows her rules. You do not approach him. She's not allowed to approach him because she didn't know if he was with somebody. He had to approach her so that she knew that she could talk to him in public. So, she sees him and walks directly past him and waited for him to say, "Latasha." When he did that, she came back and talked to him. And they talked for a while. She was telling him how heartbroken she was. And he said, "It doesn't make any sense that my wife is okay with me having other women, but my girlfriend isn't." And she said, "I'll I'll be okay with it. You can do it. If that will fix it, I will do that. I'll give you that." And just like she had so many times in this relationship with him pressuring her to get a watcher or to have a threesome or to engage in this ethical non-monogamy, she gave in. Because she loved him so much that she was willing to do whatever she had to do to keep him. And he said, "You haven't been willing to do that so far." She said, "Well, you haven't even told Tabitha about this. You know, how can I think that you're going to be honest with me when you haven't even told her?" And so, Broaddus said, "Fine. You want to tell her? Well, go tell her. Go to my apartment. Talk to her about tennis. Tell her you're in town for a convention. I've got to run an errand to Pastor Turner's house. I'll be there soon. You go tell her." And Latasha said, "No, you need to be the one to tell her. I'll be there. I'll go there. But, we need to tell her together." And so, Latasha went to their apartment where she had never been before. He gave her the address. That seems like a total lie on that part about him saying, "You go tell her." And she her saying, "No, you should tell her." He The The defense attorney is actually, to me, weakening the defense every time she's talked Every time she says one sentence, she weakens the former sentence or the latter sentence. Because how did anything in his profile that they have described how does that how does that align with he would say, "You go tell her. I'll come by later." That doesn't make any sense. She The defense attorney just said, "If uh Latasha saw him out in public, she would have to wait for him to acknowledge her in case he was with somebody." I'm going to keep repeating this. She couldn't call 911 on his behalf. She had to call Pastor Pointer. It's She has to use the What was it? The Confide app with disappearing messages. So, that doesn't align with him saying, "Yeah, just go tell Tabitha." I think it's exactly what prosecution said. She went on the same day to buy that 9 mm. And she went to the apartment either thinking he was already there or being prepared to wait on him to come there and do what she did, which was shoot him multiple times. He'd actually given it to her before they even moved out of Little Rock. And so, Latasha arrives at this apartment complex that she's never been to at night. She doesn't She's not from here. She doesn't frequent Memphis. She doesn't know the difference between downtown Memphis and Cordova. She just knows it's dark outside. And she had to walk from her car to the apartment. And as she's sitting in her car, she starts having second thoughts. And she calls Broaddus and says, "Are you sure you should do this? I'm scared. But, she had so much hope at this point. She thought that things were finally falling into place. That they were finally going to tell Tabitha. They would finally be able to be openly and honestly together. And Broaddus said, "No." So, Latasha went to the apartment. Knocks on the door. Tabitha was inside and she heard something, but ignored it. So, a couple seconds later, a little bit louder. So, Tabitha gets up and goes to investigate. See who's at her door. She looks through the peephole and doesn't see anything. And talking through the door, she says, "You know I'm not going to open this door unless I can see you, right?" And at that point, Latasha kind of put herself into the frame of the peephole. And Tabitha says, "Latasha, is that you?" She opens the door. Yes, Tasha hugs and lets her in. And they talk about tennis and they talk about her being in town for a conference. And they sit in the living room and chat. Broaddus comes home a little while later. Walks in and Tabitha texted him while she and Latasha were talking, "I've got a surprise for you." And so, he walked in and he just said, "That wasn't the surprise I was expecting." And he seemed very distant. He sits, kind of makes some awkward conversation with Latasha, small talk. But, he won't look at her. He will not acknowledge the elephant that Latasha knows is in the room. He offers her some bourbon. She says, "Sure." Tabitha said no because she had been drinking all day, so she didn't want any more. And Broaddus poured himself some. And they chatted for a few more minutes, but Broaddus really started completely ignoring Latasha there. And she saw the writing on the wall that this wasn't going to happen. He wasn't going to tell her. And so, she said, "You know what? Um I'm not going to keep you." But, she wanted to talk to him. She wanted to find out why. She said, "Broaddus, [ __ ] in my car. Southern hospitality, you're the man. You know, will you walk me to my car?" He said, "No, Tabitha will walk you out." She said, "No. Be a gentleman. Walk me to my car." And he said, "No, Tab will do it." And Tab got up, started walking out. She did not even understand the enormity of that moment behind her. When he wouldn't even walk outside and take a moment to talk to her. She broke. But, he was never like that. He's Everything the defense attorney revealed, he was being consistent. He was never like that. If you say that a uh that he said the only way when she's supposed to be in a hotel is naked. Don't talk to me unless I acknowledge you first. All this other stuff. Keeps you in a group chat with the other women he's with. Again, disappearing app disappearing message app. Why would he walk her to the car? And I I don't I don't know if she asked him to walk her to the car. I think she when she came to the apartment with that 9 mm, she was just waiting on him to come home and do what she had to do. That's what I feel like. We shall see. But, um that that's inconsistent. And the defense attorney is giving me all the inconsistent statements cuz prosecution I I don't know. Like, this is like her own defense is hurting her defense. And then okay. And she felt the gun was in there. She was reaching for her car keys. She was not going to shoot him. That was not what was going to happen. She was going to leave. This was not what she came there to do. In that moment, she broke. And she did shoot Broaddus there. While screaming, "He broke my heart. And Tabitha ran to shield him. And jumped in front of him. >> [snorts] >> And that is when she got struck in the shoulder. Tabitha said to her, "Natasha, you shot me." And Natasha said, "No, I didn't." She said, "Yes, you did. You shot me." And Natasha said, "I didn't mean to shoot you." And Tabitha said, "Just go. Go. Leave. The police are on their way. Just go." Because Tabitha, when all this started, was already outside. She ran to the neighbor's house, knocked on the door, and said, "Call 911." And then ran back in. Natasha had never threatened her, never tried to shoot her, nothing. This was a moment that broke between Natasha and Brodus. But it was not a moment of cool, calm judgment. It was not what that night was supposed to be. That night was supposed to be a start. Nothing happened that that night. She froze. And she froze at everything she And it wasn't fair. She felt ashamed about what happened. She didn't know what to do. She froze. She froze. This was not judgment of Natasha. This was a panic. She froze. She froze. And when the police came, their guns drawn, yelling at her to put down the gun, she didn't even register them. The police found her. Tabitha said that she was bringing the gun to her head, towards her mouth. Not even acknowledging the police. And in assessing the situation, police determined that they should use a non-lethal round. And they shot Natasha in the chest with that non-lethal round. She just threw on the ground. And did not The police did not choose to use their firearms. They chose to use a non-lethal round. They actually tried to use a non-lethal round first, and the gun jammed. They ran down to their car and ran back up with another non-lethal round. No other shots were fired in that entire time. Okay, kudos to the police officers. What they got What does this have to do with Natasha's actions, though? Yeah, thank thank goodness. She's a lucky one that they went non-lethal twice, even when one jammed. With With her holding a weapon. That is great. But what does that have to do with Natasha? This was not what this night was supposed to be. She froze. >> [clears throat] >> Statement. All right, that's the end of the defense's opening statements. We're moving on to the wife's testimony. Um they took a short break, so I guess I'll I'll put it on mute real fast, get my little last thoughts about this opening statement. They are leaning heavily, cuz the prosecution's already proved you bought a 9 mm on the same day you murdered this man. Um You bought that, you brought it to the apartment. You intended to shoot him. That's prosecution. And we have you on video purchasing the gun. So her defense to me is leaning heavily on she was planning on taking her own life, not anybody else's. It's one of two things for me. Either she planned on taking both their lives or just his, but he she That man was never going to not be shot, in my opinion. All right, I'm going to skip on to this uh the wife takes the stand, but you're not going to see the wife. It's just audio. So, here you go. What is your name? Tabitha Archie. And can you spell that for the court reporter? T A B I T H A A R C H I E. And uh Miss Archie, did you know Brodus Perry? And can you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury how you knew him? He was my And was he your husband? >> Can I get you to speak up? Explain why you trying to reach the back door. I keep forgetting to say my name before I make sure you get everything I say. What were y'all name? Um 2014. That's the And were you married to him in April of 2019 when he died? Yes. Um How old was he at that time? 38. I'm going to pass you something and ask you if you can identify Can you identify that? Yeah, that's Brodus Perry. Let the record reflect that he's identified State's Exhibit 1, please. No objection. All right, we'll show uh the photo of Brodus Perry as Exhibit 1. May I publish that for the jury? Yes. Is that the photo you said it Yes. When's the last time you talked to him? Um April 4th? April 4th, 2019. 2019. And uh that's the day he died. Correct. Were you there when that happened? Yes. Where were y'all living at the time? Collierville, Tennessee. How long had y'all been in Shelby County? Approximately 6 months. Where were you before that? Little Rock, Arkansas. And what did Mr. Perry do as his occupation? He was a pastor. And is that what he did in in Little Rock, as well? Yes. Where was he at Little Rock? Where was he a pastor at? St. Mark Baptist Church. And do you know Is that a big church? Yes, it's a big church. Uh do they have a lot of pastors? Yes. What was What was his role as a pastor there? He was a pastor of assimilation. So, his responsibility was basically new members, as well as small groups. Uh did he do any counseling or anything at that church? No. Um I want to take you specifically to April 4th of 2019. Uh On that night, 9:00 or 10:00 at night, um where were you? I was home. And was uh Brodus there with you? Yes, he was at home. Did you uh have a vis- visitor? I did. Was it an expected visitor or an unexpected visitor? Unexpected. Can you tell me how that went? Um I had heard a knock at the door. So me and the dog went to the door. Um I didn't see anyone, but the people were covered. And so I thought it was Brodus just playing around. So I'm like I said something like, "You know I'm not going to open the door if I can't see anyone." So, I went and sat back down. Then I heard a knock again, so I went back to the door. And I peeked out the door, and I saw like a lock like swinging. And I was like, "Natasha, is that you?" And she, you know, nodded yes. So, I was like, "Okay, let me put the dog up." I went and put the dog up, and then I came back and opened the door. Okay. So, you knew uh Natasha Adams. Yes. Is she in the courtroom today? Yes. Can you Can you point her out for us, please? Right there. Uh what color shirt she wearing? Blue. Light blue or dark blue? Light blue. For the record, Judge, she's identified the uh defendant. Let the record reflect that the defendant has been identified. How How would you describe your relationship with the defendant? Friendly. Okay. You knew her You may have said this. Where did you know her from? I knew her from church. In Memphis or Little Rock? >> Little Rock. Did y'all do other things together outside of church? I would say from maybe July to October we played tennis together like once a month. Um I went to a couple dance classes. I think she had a a former client who taught dance, so I went to a couple dance classes. My life group would go with her life group to a couple dance classes. So, it was somebody you knew from church, somebody you knew from some events at church, somebody you played tennis with occasionally. So, you you knew her fairly well. Would you say that? Yeah. Um I mean, what did you think when she just showed up? Did you have any idea she knew where you lived or I I knew that it was odd. I felt like it was odd, but I guess it was one of those things where, you know, it's like, this is weird, but okay. You know, I knew that before we left Little Rock, we gave a lot of people our address, you know, a lot of people were, you know, keep in contact, you know, give me your forwarding address, that type of thing. So, I really didn't allow myself to really think past that. I just figured, oh, he must have given her our address. So, it wouldn't have been unusual for somebody from the church in Little Rock to know where you were in Memphis. Wouldn't be unusual, no. Um did you ask her what she was doing there? Yeah, I asked her what she was doing there, and she said that she was in town for a conference. Um So, what did y'all do after she you welcomed her in, and what happened then? >> just kind of caught up. You know, how are you? What's going on? How are the kids? You know, have you been playing tennis? Stuff like that. Just really small talk. Did you um notify Mr. Perry that she was there? I texted him, and um I just, you know, gave like the big eyeballs, and I was like, I just said weird or strange or something like that. Um but I didn't go into detail to tell him what was going on and that she was there. Did you ask him to come home if he was available to come home? No, because I knew he was already on the way home. Okay. So, you had I guess had a conversation with him by phone, text, or something, and so you you had an idea he was coming home anyway. How long do you think that uh she was there prior to Mr. Perry getting home? Approximately, I mean, it's not 5 minutes, 30 minutes, I don't know. If I had to guess, I would say maybe 10 minutes. Okay. I don't know. Okay. Just kind of describe what happened when Mr. Perry came in the door. He came in, um and he's like, I thought there was a surprise here for me. This isn't a surprise. This is an unexpected guest. Be, you know, real agitated. Did he so, did he seem to know that she would be there? No, he didn't he didn't give away to me that he thought she would be there. Um so, he said that, and then he was, you know, telling me about he had brought me some aminos or something, and just regular small talk, and then he sat down and started basically grilling her about why she was there. Okay. And how long did did y'all continue to have conversation after that? Um did anybody drink anything like that? >> Um I think they may have had bourbon. I didn't have any. I think that I'm pretty sure he offered bourbon. Okay. Um yeah. How long would she would you say that she stayed? After he got there, um maybe another 10 minutes. Okay. And what happened? Uh she's, you know, she said, well, I'm not going to keep you guys. I'm going to, you know, head out or whatever. So, we all got up to walk to the door, and I led, and she was behind me, and he was behind her, and I walked to the door, and I'm just giving this little spiel about not speeding in the area, you know, just making small talk as we go to the door. I opened the door, and I go out. We're on the second floor, and I'm like right at the steps when I turn back, and I'm like, okay, no one's behind me, and then I see her pull out her gun, start shooting. Was she inside of the apartment or out? >> No, she was outside of the apartment, and he was like standing in the doorway, like in the threshold. Um had she ever, since she got there, and you let her in, had she left the apartment to go back to her car or anything? No. So, she had brought the gun in with her when she came into the apartment. Yes. Uh So, once she pulled the gun out, what happened then? She started shooting. He hit the ground, and I started running toward him, and she told me like basically back off. So, I stopped, and I ran to the neighbor's door, and I banged on the door, you know, call 911. Um she went back into the apartment, so I went back into the apartment, because I'm just trying to figure out what is going on. Like, why is this happening? So, I'm, you know, screaming naturally, you know, why is this happening? What's hap you know, why are you doing this? Okay. So, did do you think your neighbor called 911 at that point? One of them did. Somebody called. When you got back into the apartment, um did the defendant still have the gun in her hand? Yes. And what was going on then? I guess at that point, I'm basically pleading like, what's happening? Why are you doing this? Please leave. You know, um and she's, you know, kind of pacing a little bit, you know, with the gun. Um at some point, the gun was reloaded. Um So, she she fired until she ran out of uh bullets? Mhm. Were you ever shot? I was shot. Tell me about that. When did that happen? Where were you? Well, I Before she says where she was shot. So, when the defense attorney gave her opening statement, she said, um Latasha, you know, was blank and shocked, standing still. Police used non-lethal, and then that's when she finally went to the ground. All this other stuff. But she had the presence of mind to bring the gun with her to the apartment. Buy the gun the same day. Bring the gun with her to the apartment. Empty the clip, and reload. The reloading really really, I feel like, hurts her on this one, too, cuz that whole crime of passion, they'll try to, you know, say all that. You reloaded. I don't I don't know about that one. At some point, I got on the ground, and I don't I can't remember if I got on the ground immediately, but I was on the ground, and I was kind of hovering over him, you know, kind of in my mind, I'm like, let me cover his head, you know, so he doesn't get shot anymore. And, you know, she was yelling at me to move, and I wouldn't move. So, I got shot. Where did you get shot? In the shoulder. Tell me about those injuries. How how where and how were you treated? What have you had to deal with since being shot? Um so, it went into the shoulder, broke this bone, and um So, at the emergency room, they decided that they wouldn't remove the bullet because Sorry. No, no. Take Take your time. >> They felt like it wasn't going to move, so they just didn't remove it. Uh but when I got to Jacksonville, I know that's home, Florida. I'm went back home, and they noticed that the bullet had started moving, so the first doctor I went to was like, this bullet is too close to your lungs, so, you know, it's going to have to go. And I went to a first I went to the orthopedic doctor, then I went to another doctor, um and they decided to just remove it. And by the time it was removed, it was coming out of my back. So, the bullet was had punctured the skin, and was poking out of my back, so I had to have it uh surgically removed. So, did that cause you a lot of pain the night you were shot? A lot of pain uh between being shot and having the bullet removed? A lot of pain. And then the surgery was also not comfortable, I'm guessing, as well. >> Right. And then the and then the shoulder is still broke on top of that. The bone here is, you know, it was it was still broke the whole time, so there was the bone healing on top of the surgery and everything else. Uh does it still cause you pain even today? Sometimes, depending on what I'm doing, I'll get like a sharp pain. >> [snorts] >> There is uh I mean, we we've talked about this sentence. Um but and I don't know, do you dispute the fact that Mr. Perry and the defendant were involved in a extramarital affair at the time this happened? I don't know, no. Um prior to Mr. Perry's death, did you have any idea that the defendant and Mr. Perry were involved in any kind of inappropriate relationship? No. Did Mr. Perry at any time have any conversation with you about he would like to have a relationship with Latasha Daniels? No. Did he at any time have a conversation with you about he wanted to have a relationship with anyone other than you, a sexual relationship with anyone other than you? One time, he told me about a book that he wanted me to read. Right. That was about the extent of it. Is that is a marriage where you would agree to allow your spouse to have a sexual relationship with somebody else, anything that you would ever agree to. No. And by saying that, does that mean you never agreed to that with Mr. Perry? I did not. And you had no idea anything like that was going on? I did not. When you were trying to when you were on the ground trying to protect Mr. Perry, and I think you testified to this, I just want to make sure I heard you correctly. Did you say that the defendant was telling you to move? Yes. And you refused to move? Yes. And that's when you were shot. Correct. That's all. Cross-examination? Yes, ma'am. May I have just a moment to get Thank you. And if the wife lived. Thank you. I'm skipping ahead till they start talking again. Please, I apologize if I defer to Perry because that was just what I known you as. Please feel free to correct me, okay? Um I want to talk to you about some things regarding this case, okay? Um first I want to talk about ethical non-monogamy, Mhm. okay? When you were on direct, you told uh Mr. Calvin that there was a book he wanted you to read. That book was called The Ethical [ __ ] I guess. I don't think I ever considered it enough to know the name, but I guess. Um and that was something that he was interested in and brought to your attention. Right. He thought he he told me about this book. I had read this book. I think you should read it. Did he tell you what it was about? I I think I've gathered what it was about, yeah. What did you gather it was about? I gathered that it was about um people who are in open marriages. Um and is that something that you were interested in? No. Now, there was an ethical non-monogamy group that Broaddus was in, right? His His book club? Right. Apparently so. Um and did you know about the chat group that he had with two other women regarding that book? No, at the time. This is something I learned about maybe 2 years after his death. I knew that he was in a book club. I didn't know what kind of book club it was. Um to know Broaddus to know is that he's very very much a nerd. Um I would say he after he died, I probably gave away a thousand books. So, to say I'm in a book club didn't seem out of the ordinary to me. So, did you know that he was on this And this was on the Marco Polo app that he was talking to these women, right? >> Mhm. Did you know that he was talking to people on that app? I I did know because I asked him, "Why are you always on this app?" And he said, "Well, you know I'm in that book club, and instead of constantly typing back and forth, we just get on the video and chat about the books that we're reading." And you saw him on there a lot. >> Like, you know, when when you log on, you can see who else is on. So, I'm like, "Why are you always Yeah, why are you always on that app?" Um did Broaddus ever talk to you about bringing a watcher into your relationship? >> No. Did he ever talk to you about Miss Daniels being a watcher in your relationship? >> No. Did he ever talk to you about wanting to have a girlfriend outside of having you as his wife? No. Did you select Miss Daniels for Broaddus to have a relationship? No. I'd like to show you some videos, okay? Um and it will be clips mostly. Um and then I'm going to ask you some questions about this place, okay? Just quick since they did turn to the past the past his I'm going to say Well, I don't know if I I can't say ex-wife, but when they Okay, the fact they're showing her hand, I wonder if she remarried. That was my whole point to to point out. I wonder if she remarried cuz it's been 6 years. I said over 5 years, but it has been 6 years since uh Latasha Daniels shot um her and her husband up until this trial finally started. Can you all hear me? If you would please just have the decision made during the test. Thank you. >> [snorts] >> You know, I'm at a place now where I you know, I want to explain this ethical non-monogamy, and I just want you to know that your opinion matters to me. Um because we are in this relationship, [music] but at the same time, you know, like I told I said before, I have said I want to be respectful, but I also want to let you know that, you know, your opinion matters. But at the same time, I don't want you to put me in a in a box, right? Because while we talked about it in theory, this is now the practice part. And with us having perfectly fine with you know, the situation because how I've handled and been honest and transparent with her with regard to this kind of relationship, me expanding in this is not an issue for me. Basically, she told me, "How you tell We can talk about it when you think it's time to talk about it." But the way that you handled this, I'm trying with I do not trust you that because you haven't given me a reason not to. Um And he just sitting up there lying, lying, lying. She just said she didn't know about this till 2 years later. He's up here got a group chat with women. And I know he told those women probably the same thing he told Latasha. Only message me either through this Marco Polo app or video, whatever, and confide. Don't probably contact me unless I contact you first. All the things he probably told Latasha. He did with the other women. There's no way you can do all that and say your wife knows. Nah. Yes, he'll 75. He's trash. Unethical, immoral, especially again, role as a pastor. I do believe that she Latasha did come in seeking honest-to-God spiritual guidance. I believe that part. He's predatory. She needs therapy like y'all said, and she needs better judgment, too. But she's taking it to the part where it's kind of too late cuz um I Few prisons have anything to actually help you with mental health. Right. So, this clip is him talking about Latasha not being okay with the ethical non-monogamy, and you being perfectly on board with that. Was that true? No. Did you believe that Broaddus was being open and transparent and honest with you about his relationship with Latasha? What relationship? He He wasn't being open with you about his relationship with Latasha. Right. That there was a relationship at all. No. He was not transparent about that. There was no There was nothing. To my knowledge, there was no relationship. Um and you never said because he was so open and honest and transparent with you with his relationship with Latasha that you were okay with him then adding another girlfriend. No. That didn't ever happen. >> No. And for those aren't an issue with um >> Ask a couple questions real quick. Mary said her husband was mental. He just He out here just making up He want to be a podcast That's what this gives me. podcast men that shouldn't have >> [laughter] >> That's what he gives me. He's lying on his poor wife just lying on her. Oh my gosh, so the only real thing it seems like he did do he actually brought up to her was he recommended a book but she didn't even take it seriously enough to remember the name of the book. and kind of not what it's about but I do feel like I would remember the name of that book if if it was brought to me even if I ain't read it. I know the name of that book cuz that's a crazy name for a book. crazy especially when she trying to ask me But yeah, he's he's just delusional well he was delusional he was making up stuff. Oh and talking about he basically trying to expand his radius out to find more women more sister wives. Did you ever have that conversation that he talks about with Latasha? Did you ever have that conversation that he talks about with him? Did you ever give him the XYZ that he was talking about? Did you ever give him a pass for Latasha? Did he ever talk to you about further expanding ethical non-monogamy in your relationship? No. or what got to move for us right because you know girlfriend and Latasha that's easy that's been two years that's been that's been it for the most part outside of me going outside of going to baby but it's kind of been easy in that regard so we're trying to figure out what does that look like? So I'm just kind of really thinking through where I am with that right? You know where I am in terms of the goals and so so so there's a lot of newness and I said that just to say that there's still a lot of newness even in this ethical non-monogamy and that's what this and it's fun right? It's fun it's interesting it's causing us to communicate and chat and really talk again about different things that we've kind of in a real sense have been settled to some degree but realizing that in this ethical non-monogamy we got to keep things in pencil and not in pen you know some things aren't in pencil and pen right? There's some hard lines and I got to answer some of that and what that looks like so that that's why I may use my being sprung and giddy and all that stuff I think because that those flutters of those emotions right of those initial thoughts are all kind of new and very much new because this person is brand new like I don't know Latasha right? I knew Latasha that was different that was some level of familiarity and that's typically how I've always engaged with her right? With some level of familiarity I I cannot whether being in the same class together through college or something like that I would never kind of quote unquote cold call anyone you know if that makes sense cuz I just I'm not I don't think I'm that guy so Okay um BRB said ethical non-monogamy is like calling stealing compassionate sharing. [laughter] Uh Jacqueline said who had this video? I'm assuming I I really got the impression this came from the Marco Polo app so if they access the app and he didn't delete the videos they just were able to pull some of his stuff he would talk about on there cuz that's the group I got the impression this is the group chat app for the sister wives that were in the group chat including Latasha. And so they just pulled videos that they had in the app that's what I think though I won't say it like I'm for sure but I that's what I was assuming. Did he ever have that conversation with you about when he needed to tell you if if he was wanting to banter with someone or when it would go past banter with someone? That never happened? Did he ever did you hear him reference going out of town on his birthday? I thought I heard that uh Did he ever tell you about a threesome out of town on his birthday? Did you hear him mention the name Sheree? I did hear that. Do you know who Sheree is? I don't believe so. Did y'all ever talk about how ethical non-monogamy could make your relationship better? No. None of No. My nosey behind, I want to know is she remarried? And is her new husband still in ministry? Or a whole different career field? Because I would not get a second husband that was in ministry. There's no way. PTSD all day. I'm going to be there and brother advice at this point and I know they are here you on here. Michelle probably doing something else. But so, I want to talk to you talk to you about uh my little friend, right? The one who I kicked everybody sticker on. So, she hit me today with a boss moves boss moves ass that I want to hook up next week. After she gets back from being out of town that threw me the [ __ ] off, like wow. Like so, my only So, she gets back on Friday. She's like, "Okay, we got Friday and Saturday." My only concern is that she is waiting a callback for an interview for a process. And she said maybe next Saturday, right? And I know that she would leave of course for that interview. And if I'm going to Atlanta, she's about 100 miles away. She would she would ditch me, right? Like I wouldn't force her. I'd say, "Go and ditch me, right?" But I just don't know if I want to put myself in a situation where potentially we may not be hanging out in that regard because she got this other stuff that she's worried about. But I am like high key shocked and like super like blushed about it cuz like it just kind of came out of nowhere. Like we were talking about other stuff. And it was like, "Hey, what about?" Like, "Ooh, okay. I'm I'm I'm with you. Wasn't expecting to see that while I was in my speech contest." I was just counting so don't worry about what I went through that. But I don't know I don't know what to do. I think a couple of things, right? So, I I live in this also this other teaching. So, that means furthering the conversation, right? With the wife. Which she's in a good place about that, I think. I talked to you about it the other day about it. Updated Michelle about it. Just in terms of girlfriends not taking it as well, I guess. But at the end of the day I told her it's, you know, we got to recognize it's about me, not about you. And that makes sense for my wife to laugh at me being open with my girlfriend having an issue, like So, she's kind of chewing on it cuz I think in theory we've talked about this this day coming, right? But it's never been a reality, right? So, I think that she's wrestling with the reality. I think that your ideas uh your thoughts uh the other day yesterday was so like it hit me like a ton of bricks cuz I never thought about it like that. But that made so much sense. And it's not that I want to be disrespectful. It's not that I don't want to be ethical. But I do wrestle with that. And I I you know, I was just kind of talking to your your perspective about what you saw. But I was like, I think that could be what this is in terms of treating this like an infidelity kind of relationship on purpose with permission versus an additional partner scenario. So, I I feel that. But with y'all when she asked me to hook up, but uh Do y'all remember that movie Wanted with Morgan Freeman, Angelina Jolie, and the guy that now plays the young Professor X? The bullet would curve. Do y'all remember that movie? Just in case you never watched the movie. There's a line in there Morgan Freeman says, "Shoot this MFer." And that's all I can hear every time they play another video that I think is from this Marco Polo app. I can see how he's not here. That's that's what I can say. I can see how he is no longer on this earth right now. Uh I Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Do you all think the wife knew? Mary, thank you. That was the other thing. I want I I feel like some people are going to say the wife did agree to an open relationship but doesn't want to maybe admit that now in public. Because she didn't do anything to him. She actually tried to protect him from getting shot. So, she didn't do anything to him. So, she's not like a possible, you know, accomplice or anything. But I knew I know some people are going to wonder if the wife knew any of this or if he talked to her more about open open marriages than she's letting on now. I believe her on this end, but I also could see how she would not want to go into detail on that on the other end. Oh, okay. Hill75 said, "Yeah, she knew something." Demetrius said, "Yep." Okay. Okay. Did Bertis ever talk to you about engaging with a woman in Atlanta? Was he open and honest and transparent [clears throat] about that? No. Um Did he or did you uh tell him that you were open to him doing that? No. Had y'all been talking about that day coming where he would further expand to another girlfriend? No. All right. Now he real comfortable. So, it seems like there's two to three people in this group because every time he says this, he'll be like he's either talking to someone named D and mentioning uh I think he said Share or something like that. Like, "Oh, Share's not in here so I'll just tell you, D." And then of course we knew Latasha was in there at one point. So, I feel like there was three people in here at this time besides him. But they just, you know, And see that's weird because with Marco Polo, okay, you're on it while you're live apparently cuz he's actively seeing whoever's in there. It's weird to talk I don't know. Like you're just talking to one person like you are having a TED Talk or something. Like I don't know. This is all weird. Uh Jacqueline said she might have known what her husband was into but wanted no part of it. Okay. And then Hill75 said women's intuition. I definitely think she knew something was up. And in if he did give her that book, yeah, she knew something was up. I I don't think she agreed to it though. But like she's not going to be participating in it. But yeah, she probably did know something was up. We're close. We're we're close. We're we're in Little Rock. She lives in Little Rock. So, we're in Memphis. I'm in Memphis. I'm only 2 hours away. But I'm so sorry. I got to point this out. This is pre-braces. This is pre-braces because he don't have the braces aren't shining right now. And yeah. So, timeline-wise, he hasn't gotten to the point of braces yet. Yes, we were in Little Rock. So, we were literally that because that was at that point. And my wife was like, "Yeah, nobody at home. Like this is an exception cuz I kind of threw you that." But no, you ain't dealing with nobody at home. Oh, wait. Now I see it. I saw the bottom and a little of the top. So, maybe this is early braces instead of no braces. That was Jacksonville. So, our our hard no's and no Jacksonville, which is our hometown for us. No exes and no no place in your current city. That's those are the hard those are the hard no's, right? She got an exception because it was there that she realized, "Yeah, I don't think I want to him to be dealing with all these people all these women. And no doubt these women would be in the church cuz that's all we do is hang around. Or in the community or close enough. So, it was kind of one of those things. Was Latasha Gainous an exception to your rules? No. Did you create rules about Jacksonville? No. Did you create rules about exes? No. Did you create rules about the city that you live in? No. Were those hard no's for you? Yeah. No. Was any extramarital affair a hard no for you? They were all They were all hard no's for me. >> Before I can say a word, she hits me with I'm sorry. Are we not going to breeze past the women showing up at the bottom of the profile? I I need to know. I'm going back a little bit y'all cuz I just want to see they panned up. Hold on. So that must be maybe D. I'm air quoting D cuz I think I heard somebody named D and Sher- Share or Cheryl. Before I can say a word, she hits me with I'm sorry. I'm not sorry for what? So then she goes into the whole I apologize breaching your trust breaching telling me I apologize for what I did before. about the situation. Her reasoning was that she felt like if like you all said if he could appeal to my quote unquote greater senses that I would realize the mistake that I would be making by losing such a wonderful woman. She also apologized. I said that she apologized to Tabitha. When Tabitha talked she told me that Tabitha told her that their conversation was their conversation until she revealed it. So she was not going to talk about the contents of which what they discussed. She basically said I feel like I know what you're going to tell me. And at this Who is P? Uh he is our friend and former pastor. Is that Philip Pointer? >> [clears throat] >> And he was also a pastor at St. Mark's. Correct. Did you know that Pastor Pointer knew about the relationship with LaTasha? No. Did LaTasha reach out and apologize to you after she threatened to commit suicide? No. Did you ever have a conversation with her about that? No. Throughout all of those videos it's very convincing talking about this stuff. Do you agree? I would agree. And none of it was true? No. I want to talk to you about your relationship with Brutus, okay? Okay. Um you all Y'all were married then? Uh for about 5 years. How long had you dated before you got married? About a year. You were his second wife. Correct. Um and at no point during your relationship did you at least hear that he discussed this Watchers or non-monogamy? No. I want to hear from the second or the first wife as a character witness. I want to know what did she experience? Why did they get divorced? Brutus was a pastor. Correct. In Little Rock that was at St. Mark's. So that's a big church. Yes. Um Did he take trips with the church? Yes. Often? When you say trips like international trips or Both international and local. Israel only? Yeah, often. A lot of other Um Did he take those with the other pastors? Sometimes. And he also took them sometimes with other church members. Um With the church groups. I can recall one time maybe a time or two where there was like a a training conference or something like that. And they did the whole church group was for Israel, right? Correct. Okay. Um And when he got the job at Mississippi Boulevard, that's a big deal to be a pastor there, right? It is. That's a It's a big church here. It's a big church. Um And Now I'm direct I I thought you had said that he didn't ever do counseling for St. Mark's. At St. Mark's, but I thought you told the police that he sometimes did. You just didn't know that he counselled LaTasha. I've never known him to do counseling. Did he ever tell you that he counselled LaTasha? No. But you knew that she ended up getting divorced. I did know that. Okay. Now I want to talk to you about LaTasha, okay? Okay. Um you knew her from church. Correct. Um and that was St. Mark's in Little Rock. Correct. She was a life group leader. Yes. What's a life group leader? Um it's a person that leads a group of people that get together and do Bible study. And that was a group that Brutus was over, right? Correct. Um and before his relationship with LaTasha started, this was a tight-knit group, right? >> Yes. He was very involved with that group. Yes. And it was about seven or eight people? In that group there were probably six or seven groups. But in that particular The group that LaTasha was in there? Couple of people. And those groups were selected from the whole church membership, right? Based on who showed interest. It wasn't like you want you you know, people came and showed interest. Yeah. There are thousands of church members at St. Mark's. And that's what I said at the beginning. We're not going to act like he just Tell me tell me, Lord, who who out of these thousands should I pick for life group? It was the people in his face. Of course. Like who Stop playing. And I don't know how I don't know what kind of church background the defense attorney has, but no, ma'am. He didn't pick them out of thousands. Sure. And I think what about 40 or 50 people were selected to be life group leaders? I guess. I don't know for sure. And that's okay if you don't know. Um and you and LaTasha were fairly friendly. Yeah. Uh you played tennis once a month for a couple months. Mhm. And then um at some point after Brutus got the job at Mississippi Boulevard, y'all moved from Little Rock to Memphis. Correct. Um and at no point were you aware of their relationship? No. Were you aware of any issues that Brutus had had at St. Mark's? No. Y'all moved in October. Correct. And that was to Cordova. Correct. Before y'all left, you gave your friends, church members, your new address. >> Yes. Um and there was a party that was thrown for y'all, right? I think so, yeah. Did you know that LaTasha organized that party? It wouldn't surprise me to know that. After you left Little Rock and moved to Memphis, you didn't see LaTasha again until April the 4th, right? Right. And as far as you knew, neither did Brutus. Right. But Brutus would come back to Memphis for his braces. Right. Now why would he come back to Little Rock from Memphis to get his braces done? Because the braces were paid for. But the work wasn't done in his mouth. So it just made sense to continue seeing that orthodontist. And so Brutus would go to Little Rock, but you would stay in Memphis. Now I want to talk to you specifically about April the 4th, okay? Um Now you were at home that night, right? You were watching TV. Right. You and your dog Anakin. Yes. Um and around 9:00 or 9:30 you heard a noise, a faint knock. Correct. Ignored it. Yeah. And then a couple of seconds minutes later you heard another slightly louder knock. Yeah. And you and Anakin, the dog, got up to go see what was going on. Right. A third knock or after you said, you know, I'm not going to open this door if I don't see who it is Yeah. you saw LaTasha through the peephole. Yes. Recognized it was her. Invited her in. Yeah. Um She wasn't threatening you. No. She did not have her gun out pointing it at you. No. You sat You brought her in the house, right? And y'all sat in the living room. Right. Talked. Right? Yes. Talked about tennis. Yes. Talked about um a work conference. Right? Yes. And just chatted. Yes. She seemed happy to be there. Yes. She seemed happy to be talking to you. Yes. Um At no point while y'all were sitting alone in the apartment, was she threatening to you? No. She never tried to harm you. No. Um And she was seated, if I'm not mistaken on a couch, right? Actually. You are a man for sure, man. How about that you recognize that? Yes. What is that? That's my apartment in Holly Hill. Uh you're on our affidavit to be made the next number exhibit. Exhibit two. It's the living room. Exhibit for the state. No, don't you know? All right, we'll show the photo of of the living room as exhibit two. Your honor, can I have that published to the jury? Yes. How about this this a picture of the living room at your apartment? Yes. Where were you seated speaking to Latasha? I would I would have been seated on the left end of the sofa. So I was there. I think we can work on the screen so they can So like here? Yes. Okay. And where was Latasha? On the opposite end. About here? Right. >> Next to these other chairs. >> Yes. Broaddus was not home yet, right? Right. Uh he had gone to Pastor Poyner's No, he got off of Pastor Turner. Right. Well, he he got off work. He went to the cigar bar. And then from the cigar bar, he told me he had to go drop something off at Jason's house. So, he went and dropped something off and then he came home. He likes cigars. Yes. And that Thursday nights he'd go to the cigar bar, right? More than Thursday nights, but yeah. >> But that was one of his nights, right? >> Okay. Um so you texted him when Latasha was there. Didn't tell him that she was there, but texted him and just said this is strange. >> Yeah. Uh and you said that it seemed a little odd that she was happy to be there, happy to be talking to you. Yes. Up to this point on April the 4th of 2019 Broaddus had never told you that he'd been cheating outside of your marriage, right? No. And you had never sanctioned No. He never told you that he'd been involved in a 2-year relationship with Latasha. No. He never told you that y'all would be sister wives. No. He never told you that he promised Latasha that he'd tell you. No. Did he tell you that he saw Latasha earlier that night before she came to your apartment? He did not. Did he tell you after he got there that he had seen Latasha earlier that night? At the cigar lounge. No. He acted like he had no idea she was even in town when he walked in that door, right? Correct. And if he had seen her at that cigar lounge earlier that night that would not have been true. Right? Correct. I want to talk to you about while you and Latasha were talking, okay? Mhm. She never threatened you. No. Was never cross with you. No. Um I think she engaged with you cordially. Yes. Seemed genuinely happy to be there. Yes. Now I want to talk to you about when Broaddus arrived home, okay? Can you describe his demeanor when he walked in? Um agitated. Did he immediately come in and and offer the bourbon? No, not immediately. Okay. When did that happen? I would say once he kind of settled in, he he had bags, he had things with him, so he set those down, told me he had brought me these aminos. Um you know, he made the statement about this is an uninvited guest. And then I think that's when he started saying, you know, what are you doing here, where are you staying, that whole bit. And at some point around there is when he offered um does anybody want a drink? After he made the drinks, he also sat down, right? Yes. And when we're looking at exhibit two Broaddus sat in this chair? I can't remember which chair he sat in to be honest. >> That's okay. >> One of those chairs. And while he was seated in one of these chairs, Latasha was still seated here? Yes. Were you still seated over here? Yes. Broaddus made himself a drink. Yes. And he made Latasha a drink. Right. Uh and you didn't want a drink. Right. You had some champagne earlier in the night and you were you were done. Fine, yes. Um when Broaddus was talking to Latasha about you know, why she was here, what she was doing he was kind of making small talk with her, right? It was I guess you can call it that. It was like um badgering almost. Yeah. He still seemed agitated. Yeah. At some point did you notice that he kind of stopped talking to Latasha and only started engaging with you? I didn't. Your honor, may I approach the witness? Yes. Uh your honor, I have a transcript of her statement. I previously provided a copy to the state, but I have a bound copy. I'll provide that for ease of reference. Could you look at page eight for me? Lines eight through 17. Okay. And just read those for me so we know. Which What line is 18? I'm sorry. It's not numbered. >> May I approach? Yes. It should be It's just hard to see. Oh, okay. I don't know why you're so tense. Yeah, I'm sorry. Here. Okay. And then just down a couple lines. Okay. So, it says Oh, you don't have to read it. Just read it to yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Okay. Do you remember telling the police that he kind of stopped talking to her and started engaging only with you? I don't, but if it's here you don't dispute that that's I know I won't dispute it. Okay. You can just put that Okay. Was that normal behavior for him with a guest? I would say that it was normal for behavior for him with his life group leaders. Um it was not unusual for him to talk kind of rough to them and just I would often say I don't know how y'all put up with him. Um but it was usually just that's just him that's just him, you know, kind of a good fun kind of way of roughhousing, so to speak. Um so I always found it kind of cringey, but it was not unusual. Okay. I want to talk to you now about when Latasha said that she was going to go ahead and go, okay? Okay. Um she basically said I'm not going to keep you guys, right? And everybody stood up. And you led the way to the door. Right. Latasha was behind you. Correct. And Broaddus was behind her. Yes. And you got all the way outside, right? I mean, to the stairs of the apartment complex. >> Right. And Latasha and Broaddus were still back towards the apartment. Right. Latasha right outside the door, Broaddus in the door. Right. Did you hear her ask him to walk her to her car? No. Uh >> [clears throat] >> when they were over there and you were at the stairs they were kind of had had their own thing going on over there while you were trying to walk on out, right? I don't know because my back was turned, so Right. you know, it wasn't until I turned around that I realized they weren't right you know, behind me. Um and you were I mean, you were telling her just don't speed, be careful, and if he had something to drink. Right. Right? You had no idea what was going on behind you. No. So then I want to talk to you about when you turned around and saw Latasha, okay? Okay. Um she was still at the door of your apartment. Well, she was out from the door, yeah. Um and that's your door is right next to your neighbor's door, right? >> Yeah, it's across the hall. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um so she is standing right outside the door, Bertis is standing in the door frame. Mhm. So she was closer to Bertis than you were. Yes. Do you remember how far away you were? So from our front door to the stairs might be from here to the beginning of this green partition. So it's not We're not very far from the stairs. Yeah, so if this is the front door, those are the stairs. Okay, so you >> So if I'm there, Bertis is here, she's maybe here. So it's like, you know, equal space between all three of us. Um it's not a lot of space. >> 12 ft? I don't know. I don't know. I'm I'm not good at guessing either. Somewhere 10 to 12 ft, maybe? 10 to 15 ft? Does that look like a good guess to you? This looks good to me. So you don't know. I don't I don't think so. I can move on here. How was Latasha? Uh Latasha was facing Bertis. Yeah, I would say yeah. And you saw her reach into her pocket, right? Yes. And this was as y'all were walking out to her car. This is still upstairs. Right, but that that was the direction that Correct. Okay. And when you saw her reach into her pocket, you saw her pull out a gun. Yes. Now prior to that moment, had you ever seen a gun? No. Prior to that moment, had she seemed to be a threat to you? No. Prior to that moment, did you think you were in harm's way being with her? No. She started firing the gun. Yes. Towards Bertis. Correct. You were in the opposite direction, right? I was behind them, yes. Uh and you ran to your apartment or your neighbor's apartment. Right. Right? Right. Um so you were you weren't even in the apartment when the shots started. No, I was still outside the apartment. When y'all were in the apartment, the three of you, was the door closed? After the shots were fired? Before. >> Oh, before. Yeah, the door was closed before. Could anyone see into your apartment? No. With the door closed? No. It was cracked. Right. No one else other than the three of you was in the apartment. Correct. Um after the door gets opened, you go outside, you're visible to everyone else in the apartment complex, right? They could see where y'all were, right? You became visible outside of your apartment. Not really, no. So if your neighbor had opened the door >> If yeah, if my neighbor across the hall had opened the door, sure. They could see Latasha standing. Mhm. They could see Bertis standing in the door. Mhm. Nothing happened until after that was already out in more public area than y'all had been before, right? Right. You at some point lunged for Bertis, right? Yes. And tried to shield him. Well, this was after after the shooting had occurred, yeah. Once he we were back in the apartment by then. Um prior to that point, prior to you trying to shield him, she had not fired any shots at you, right? No. Um and when you got shot, did you realize it? Yes. Did you grab your shoulder? I yeah, the bullet, you know, the bullet moved me. The the shot threw me. Uh yeah. And you were right against Bertis at that point, too, right? Until I got shot, right. And then you said, "Tasha, you shot me." Mhm. What did she say back to you? Something to the effect of, "I didn't mean to." And then you told her basically to go, leave. Yeah, just get out of here. Just get out of here. I won't tell them it was you, just go. Mhm. Correct. She didn't move. No. And at some point you could hear the sirens coming. Yes. And Latasha still didn't move. Right. She never put down the gun. No. And when the police came up, they had their guns drawn. Correct. And she still didn't put down the gun. Correct. And in fact, she pointed the gun at her own self. Yes. Towards her mouth. Yes. Towards her head. Yes. Against her chest. Yes. And the police were trying to talk to her to get her to put the gun down. Right. And she wasn't really interacting with them. She was talking back. You know. Why did you die? >> hear that right? Probably, I don't remember. Do you remember her saying, "What have I done?" No. Ma'am, Latasha. Yes. If you could just read right here. Right here? Right here, this paragraph. You don't have to read it out loud, just to yourself. Oh, okay. Did you tell the police that she said, "Oh, what have I done?" Yeah, it appears that I did. And this was taken the day that that next morning after this happened, right? Correct. Just want to give cuz I know people stream in and out, just want to give the timeline that Well, first of all, this is the wife on the stand. She was a victim of being shot as well as her husband was shot and killed. Her husband was the pastor that was having an affair with the defendant that's on trial. It is It has been 6 years since the actual crime was committed. The The crime was committed April 4th, 2019. They started their trial November November 4th, 2025. I think so. I think it was November 4th, 2025. So it's been 6 years. So with the ring on her hand, I've been wondering, did she get remarried? Um and also I hope her husband isn't in any ministry. And I also feel like that's why she doesn't sound as traumatized because and how she's not going to remember before she re-reads her statement some things that she might have known in detail when it actually happened. 6 years is a long time. Then you're grieving, then you're trying to come to terms with the stuff that's coming up about your husband that you may not have known, but maybe had a gut feeling about, but didn't know know. Um playing tennis with this woman and then find out, you know, she's messing with your husband and stuff. So it's a lot going on, but yeah. All right. One of the main things that you've heard Latasha saying during this was that he broke all the 10 Commandments. Right. And that was the main thing that she said to you? Yeah. The gunshot wound that you suffered, you had to go to the hospital. Yes. Uh you were there for a couple hours, right? Yes. And you got released. Yes. You left the hospital. Yes. A couple hours later you got a call. Right? From? To come back to the hospital. No. No, the surgeon and the chaplain didn't call you to come back? No, I was still there when they told me that he died. Okay. So you left and came back? I did I never left. I never left. I was there all night. Ma'am, Bertis. Yes. If you could just read right there. Start here, just the bottom of the page. Oh no, this is the detective saying this is when he left. Keep reading though. Okay. I'm going to have to go back a little bit. Yeah, that was wrong. That's him cuz I didn't leave the hospital when I was there. Okay. So that's just Yeah, that's just wrong. And this was a stressful night, right? A very traumatic event. Yeah. Um and you had no idea why any of this happening. Right. But eventually you were told that Brodes had passed away. Correct. You went and gave a statement that next day with Carl and Aubrey. Right. Pastor Pointer and Pastor Turner came with you. Right. Did you ask them to come with you? They're the only people that could have come because I did not know a soul in Memphis. So when everything happened uh I did I didn't know anybody's phone number. So they called Pastor Turner. Um they went through hoops to get in touch with him. He and his wife showed up. He called Pastor Pointer that morning. He drove over from Little Rock. So there was really nobody else that could have come. And they actually came into the interview room with you, right? And while you were talking to police the police were saying, "Do you know why this happened?" Right? And you have to say yes or no for the recording. Um and the you and the police both talked about why. Right. Nobody understands why. Right. Did Pastor Pointer ever say, "Actually, I know that they were in a relationship"? No. Did he ever tell you that before you went in? I object. That's That's hearsay. I don't know what the purpose of it is. I don't know. It's not being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. It's being offered to show whether or not he provided that information. You probably All right. They have a little sidebar. They have it for a little bit, too. Let's see from Okay, 5 6 minutes. Okay, we're going back. Oh, they had a break. And then we have going back to the judge. I need to swear in uh Also can Do you swear or affirm Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will take charge of this jury, that you will keep them separate and apart from all persons, that you will not allow them to communicate in any manner with anyone or anyone with them and as it concerns the matter on trial, nor with you, nor you with them, and that you will deliver them safely into court, so help you God? I do. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Um If Was she swearing in the uh foreman? Is that what they call the the foreman on the jury? If she was I would not take that charge. I'd be like, "I can't control grown people. Y'all need to pick somebody else." I'm going to call the jury back in and um give them some admonitions and then we'll start back in the morning at 9:30. Yes. Well, I And so I'm just And we've talked a little bit about this. I've got been asked three witnesses or Caruthersville PD officers, which are easy Right. to get back and forth. But the three after that, particularly the two after that one's coming from Arkansas. Based on our progress thus far, I'm not confident we will get to the fourth witness tomorrow. And I hate for him to have to come from Arkansas 2 and 1/2 hours, go back to Arkansas 2 and 1/2 hours, and come back the next morning. Um and I sure don't think we'll get to five, but sure as I say that, we'll be sitting here 2:00 and we'll be out of proof. Um So I guess what I'm asking the court is would you be okay if I have the three Caruthersville officers here and the guy from Arkansas. If it looks like we're going to run out of time, I'll take the guy from Arkansas out of order. But I'm not going to ask TBI from Nashville to come tomorrow. If we get through those four, we'll be down to two Thursday morning for me that I think are pretty short. And if we run out of time, it's on me, but I didn't want to run out of time. I didn't If we finish earlier, it's on me, but I didn't want you to look at me like "Why are you not having your witnesses here?" That is fine. Okay. We have no objection to taking that witness out of order. Oh, that is fine. That is fine. Okay. All right. Um I'm going to call the jury in and I'm going to give them some admonitions and then we'll reconvene for tomorrow, so you can get the jury in. I know she didn't mean to, but that was a crazy pun to use just now. You're going to give them some ammunition. Crazy pun right now. The jury can be excused at this time. Okay, it looks like they're going to talk about a few more things, but they needed the jury to leave first. You may be seated. All right. Well, we are at a good stopping point um for the day. Um I want to give you some instructions again. There are several rules concerning your conduct during the jury selection process, the trial, and during recess that you should keep in mind. First, you should not conduct your own private investigation to this case. For example, do [clears throat] not visit the scene of the alleged incident, try to read any textbooks or articles concerning any issue in this case, or consult any other source of information. If you were to do that, you would be getting information that is not evidence in this case. You must decide this case only on the evidence and law presented to you during the trial. Any juror who sees any information about this case other than what was said in the trial must notify the court immediately. Second, you cannot discuss the case either among yourselves or with anyone else during the trial. You must keep an open mind until you have heard all the evidence, my final instructions, and the attorneys' closing arguments. Any discussions before you retire to deliberate would be premature and improper. Third, you cannot allow any other person to discuss the case with you or in your presence. If anyone does attempt to do so, report this fact to the court immediately without discussing the incident with any of the other jurors. Fourth, do not try to speak to any of the attorneys, parties, or witnesses in this case, even for the limited purpose of saying good morning. They are also instructed not to talk to you, and you must report any contact with you. In no other way can all the parties feel assured of your absolute impartiality. So again, we're still not ready to discuss the case. All right. Go to dinner, have a good night's sleep, and we'll be ready to be back to work in the morning around 9:30, okay? So I'm going to excuse you for the day. Remember, do [clears throat] not discuss the case, okay? Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Be safe. You can leave your note pads under your seats. Jurors, you can pass through this turn and follow me. Okay. That's it. They said outside the it's titled outside jury's present, but the jury was still in there. Okay, so that's the end of this one. The next The day two of trial, when we do go over it, it's going to be in parts because this day one was only 2 hours and 20 minutes. The other day, the next day I already saw, I think it's like 8 hours, so that's going to be at least be two parts, minimum two parts. I'm also going to clip out the wife's testimony. So if y'all see a repeat for those that were in here, I am taking that part out and posting it as its own separate thing. Um if you don't know me other than seeing this live we also watch body cams in on Friday and Saturday I'm Saturday and Sunday mornings pretty regularly. Um thank you if this is your first impression of me. If you stay, thank you. And I think that's it. That's it. Oh, let me give you the summary one more time just for the people that came in later just so y'all kind of get the same information as the ones that were here already. All right. So timeline-wise, April 4th, 2019, Latasha Daniels shot Pastor Brodes Perry and wounded his wife Tabitha Perry um when she was when she came to their apartment. No Now, 6 years later, November 4th, 2025, they're finally having day one of trial, which we just watched. Um the trial only lasted for 4 days, and the jury reached a verdict on the fourth day. And then the sentencing occurred on February 24th, 2026. And just so y'all know, I mean, spoiler alert, she was found guilty, but she was found guilty of lesser charges cuz they first had first-degree murder on there, but the jury said second-degree murder. So, she got 20 years for that and then 11 months and 29 days for reckless endangerment. That But it was concurrent, so Um let's see what else. They chose to acquit her on employing firearm during felony. They didn't They didn't charge Oh, they didn't keep the They didn't find her guilty on that. They acquitted her on that. Um let's see. I think that I think that's it for now. I think that's pretty good. Um so Oh, someone asked in the chat how old was how old is LaTasha? And it said as of February, she's 46 years old. So, yeah, I think that's good. Let's see. She didn't have a real friend to tell her to leave him alone. She did not, Randy. I totally agree with that. Hey, Crystal Gale. Happy Easter. >> [laughter] >> Um all right. Okay. I think that's it for now. So, I will see some of you soon. If not, if you're in here for this trial, we will get back together. Just got to find a time and we'll be watching day two. All right. Talk to y'all later. Bye.