All right, mic check, mic check. Okay. So, we are starting on day two of trying to get my fingers day two of the trial with Latasha Daniels and it's they're calling it he broke my heart or you broke my heart murder trial. And let's see. Trying to get my Okay, cool, cool, cool. All right, so we're going to start this will be in parts because this one's 5 hours and some minutes long. I know I can't stay for the 5 hours, so this will be broken up in parts, but we'll see how far we get today. I do talk I don't think I talk as much as I do on body cams because it is a trial watch and I don't have to be so careful about ad commentary but I just want you to know if you're here it's cuz we're watching this together and I do talk. So, that's your warning. All right, so here we go. I think I have a speech problem. Next seat. Good morning. Good morning. Could you state and spell your name for the record? Uh Samuel Edward Draper. S A M U E L D R A P E Okay. And where are you employed? Carver's Fire Department. And what's your position? Uh Captain of the Uniform Patrol. How long have you been in that in that position? >> Uh coming up on a year. Okay. And how long have you been with the Carver Police Department? >> Uh Department for 13 years. Okay. So, I'm going to take you back to April 4th, 2019. Do you recall responding to an apartment complex that day? Yes, ma'am. Um on that day, I believe it was roughly around 22:26, um responding to a weapons complaint of shots fired at what is 6181 South Elstone Place East. Um myself and a couple other CPD officers and SROs pulled up on scene. Pulled up to the entrance point of the Meridian Apartments and the gate was already open by I uh I believe another occupant of the complex. He was saying hey the shots were coming out from this apartment complex. Me and one of my partners, um Officer uh Officer McClain, we rallied about Carver Complex. I believe it was 204 to 205 of building eight. Um and then when we were coming up stairwell, one of the tenants from the apartment complex said that the shots were coming from the top right apartment. So, myself and Officer McClain went up the stairwell, made a right, um observed a male subject um down on the ground in the front entryway of the apartment in a pool of blood. Saw a female victim um sitting or braced against the wall to the male victim and I observed uh the suspect a little ways behind him. There was an island kitchen island in that apartment complex. She was standing to the right at one of the weapons. Okay. And at any time did she put down the weapon once you arrived? No, ma'am. Okay. Could you tell us what happened with that? So, once we got there, I observed her with a weapon myself and um on scene officers we tried to communicate with her to put down the weapon. I don't recall how long or how much time elapsed, but after some time, um we requested a less lethal um being that uh we called up and that's when Officer Jenkins deployed that and she immediately fell to the ground and that's when we went into the apartment complex secure it and secure the weapon. >> [clears throat] >> Could you describe to the jury what exactly is a less lethal firearm? >> Um a less lethal um weapon system is uh typically it's a 12 gauge shotgun that's been converted to a less lethal means. Um it's deployed by a super sock which is a small, approximately 4 in uh Kevlar type of cloth that's uh inside that Kevlar cloth is uh number eight black pellets and it's a means for us to deploy it during violent situations. It can still be lethal, but it's a less lethal means to try to incapacitate the uh subject in order to get uh them under custody. Okay, before they continue, I didn't offer any background on this live, so let me just say in case this is your first time watching this or if you just need a memory refresh, uh Latasha Daniels was in a love affair with the pastor that she killed. Um he liked to participate in what he called consensual non-monogamy, but it doesn't seem like his wife said, "Yeah, I'm good with that, too." So, technically it was not consensual, but that's what he called it like being able to polyamory it up and stuff like that. He called it non-consensual I mean, consensual non-monogamy. He was trying to get his wife to uh read a book about it and stuff like that. She said she never read the book, she never said she wanted to be a part of something like that, but he had this whole I forgot what the app was called, but he had this whole app where he had a little group chat. It looked like he only had a group chat. I I won't say only, but he had a group chat with the defendant that's on trial, Latasha, and then two other women from what I could tell. So, and he would talk about, "Oh, I talked to my wife about this and she was saying just don't don't be with anyone in our same city and let me know if you find somebody new." It I think he was lying, but I think she has suspicions though, the wife. I think the wife has suspicions. And then from what her defense attorney says, it doesn't seem like it was even a love thing because the Latasha Daniels the the defendant on trial could she said could only show up in a hotel room with no clothes. So, the purpose was obviously just sex, so um and then it seemed like she paid her way when they went on the church travel, you know, little missions and stuff. She had to pay her way. Uh so, there was no financial there was no um softness emotion emotional stuff for her to receive from that and she did she committed this crime in 2019. The person that's on the stand right now uh looks like he's a officer that responded to the scene when Latasha shot and killed the pastor and also shot but did not kill the pastor's wife. And the trial only lasted four total days. We're on day two right now. The jury I believe reached their verdict and came back on day four as well. Um let's see. Anything else? She I If you haven't seen day one, go back and watch the pastor's videos that he would leave in his little group chat. It was something else. And that's about it so far. I think I think that's enough background to get you caught up. And I don't recall if you stated it before, but which officer employed the less lethal? That was Officer Kelly Jean. Okay. And you stated that you saw the suspect hit the ground? Correct. Okay. Do you see that same suspect in the courtroom today? Yes, ma'am. She's right sitting in front of me. Could you describe what she's wearing? Uh white jacket, blue shirt, glasses. I want to have the record reflect that Captain Draper has identified the defendant. Let the record reflect that the defendant has been identified. Okay. And if you recall, how many times was the suspect hit with the less lethal? One time. Okay. And after she was hit, do you recall who secured the scene or who cleared the weapon? I believe that was Officer McClain um cuz myself and the other officers we kind of we we didn't know who else was in the apartment and we went to the left. Um and that's when Officer McClain secured the weapon and I believe put it on the the island of the apartment complex. And do you recall any other weapons being recovered from the scene? No, ma'am. Okay. So, neither neither of the two people that were on the ground had weapons. >> Yes, ma'am. Okay. And did you do anything else pertaining to this investigation? No, ma'am. And this apartment complex that you responded to, you said it was on Elstone Place? Yes, the Meridian Apartments off of Sherrod. Okay. Is that in Shelby County? Yes, ma'am. I'll pass the witness, John. All right, cross-examination. >> Thank you, Anna. Good morning, Captain Draper. Good morning. I just have a couple questions for you, okay? Uh on April 4th, you responded to a shots fired call, right? >> Yes, ma'am. Um and you had information that there were two people down. Um what I recall there was a shots fired and there was screaming. Okay. Um how many officers arrived at the scene? Initially, I want to say it was myself, Officer Dunlap, and Officer McClain, but there was additional officers that showed up uh shortly after. Do you recall how many officers total responded? No, ma'am. Do you recall how long you were there prior to the firing of the less lethal? No, ma'am. >> [clears throat] >> Uh now, when you arrived on the scene, you had your sidearm. I had my rifle. Okay. I thought you had both. Well, yes, but I had my rifle in conjunction to my sidearm. So, you had It's a Glock that you carry? Uh yes, ma'am. And a Bushmaster rifle. Yes, ma'am. And when you went up the stairs, you had your Bushmaster rifle Yes, ma'am. in your hands. Yes, ma'am. And when you went up to where that apartment is, when you came to the doorway where you could see in, and you saw that Ms. Daniels was standing there with a weapon, you raised your gun, right? Yes, ma'am. Because you had a person inside with a weapon. Yes, ma'am. Now, you are trained in dealing with that kind of situation, right? Yes, ma'am. Y'all get training in what's called the use of force continuum. Right? >> Um and that goes from no force at all to deadly force. Yes, ma'am. Um and less lethal is below the deadly force. Yes, ma'am. Less lethal can include the um the super sock that you were talking about or um the rubber pellets, things like that. Yes, ma'am. Uh but the the deadly force would involve typically your sidearm. Uh in that case there, it was you typically less lethals are used for, you know, it's another tool for us to address a situation and for us, even though deadly force would have been authorized in that circumstance, we decided to try to use another means um to resolve the situation peacefully in the best we could. Absolutely. And y'all are trained to to go as far down on the continuum as you can, right? Depending on the situation, yes, ma'am. You don't want to jump to the most extreme if you don't have to. Yes, ma'am. And so, when you encountered Ms. Daniels, um did you see her Did you see her? Could you use the You had a good visual? Do you remember how far apart you were? Um I can't recall the exact footage, but it was a a ways distance. It was I was at the top of the stairwell. You had the apartment with both parties in the entryway to the apartment and then she was a little further back, uh closer in the um interior portion of the apartment. When you were speaking with her, were you still back at the stairwell or were you closer up to the apartment? Still back where I was. Okay. You could see her in the apartment? >> Yes, ma'am. Okay. Uh but you did talk to her. Attempted to. I did not get a response. Uh she was very visibly upset. I I did not see any emotion that I would recall. She would not communicate back to me. Okay. So, you were talking to her and she did not talk back to you at all? Correct. We were telling her to put down the firearm, um something to that extent, but we weren't getting a response from that. Were you seeing her at that point behaving in a threatening way to the two people on the ground? Our priority at that point was to try to detain and secure the situation because we had injured parties. Right, but my question was, did you see her at that point in time threatening the two people on the ground? No, ma'am. Did you see her at any point and that's the you know, this obviously is going to depend on where you were standing. Did you see her at any point putting the gun to her own head, to her own chest, into her own mouth? If I recall correctly, at some point in our attempts to communicate um with her, she did point the firearm towards herself, but I don't recall exactly what if it was the head or the chest area. Okay. Uh and during that whole period of time, you're trying to talk to her and she's she's not even There's no response. At one point, I do recall talking um with Ms. Perry um asking her what the name of the subject was to try to convince her to put down the firearm, but it it did not work. So, at some point you y'all determined the best course of action was to utilize that less lethal. Yes, ma'am. And once you did that, she was taken into custody. Yes, ma'am. Um and paramedics then came to take care of Tabitha Burrous. Yes, ma'am. Uh at any point did Latasha point the gun at any of the officers? No, ma'am. Did you ever see her point the gun at Tabitha Burrous? Burrous? How do I say that Burrous again? No, ma'am. Do you recall um the initial attempt to deploy the less lethal not being successful? That the first gun jammed? Uh I do believe that there was a malfunction with the first one and that's when we had to uh call it for a second one. Somebody had to run down to their car, come back up and Somebody I I don't recall exactly who it was, but cuz I was me and the other officers there had to we stayed where we were because we don't want to lose sight. And somebody brought up the less lethal, gave it to Jenkins, and Jenkins is the one who deployed the less lethal. >> Correct. That's all I have. Thank you, Captain. Thank you, ma'am. I'm going to redirect here. I'm going to redirect here on the I may step down, sir. Thank you, ma'am. You may call your next witness. State calls Officer McClain. All right, may I have a seat, sir? You may, sir. Good morning. Good morning. Could you state and spell your name for the record, please? Yes, ma'am. It is Richard Austin McClain, R I C H A R D M C C L A I N. Where are you >> [clears throat] >> employed? Right now, I'm employed with Shelby County Sheriff's Office. Have you always been employed with them? No, ma'am. Where were you previously? From 2016 to 19, I was employed by the Carville Police Department. And how long were you there? 3 years. And what was the last position you held while there? Uh patrolman. So, while you were at the Carville Police Department, do you recall I'm going to take you back to April 4th, 2019. Do you recall responding to an apartment complex that day? Yes. Okay. And was that apartment complex on Oak Stone Place? Yes. And was it in Shelby County? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And why did you respond there? Shots fired call. Okay. And who was Who else was with you on that day? Um like officer-wise, I'm guessing? Correct. Uh you had Dunlap, Draper, uh Jenkins, the Baldo, and myself. Okay. And what happened when you got to that scene? Myself, Officer Dunlap, and Officer Draper were the first three on scene, I believe, or right around the same time. We all started clearing the bottom floor, at which point we came into contact with a tenant who advised us that the shots were coming from an upstairs apartment. Okay. And did you ever go upstairs to that upstairs apartment? Yes, ma'am. Okay. What All right, before prosecution asks their next question, another thing I remembered is that and Rose, thank you cuz you're the one that asked the question. Uh Rose said was the defendant at the house of the pastor and their wife? She was. And what her defense attorney says is that she threatened that pastor saying, "I'm going to tell your wife about us cuz I don't think she knows." And she the defense says that he was like, "Go ahead. I don't care. Go to my house right now." I don't believe that part happened. But she did go to their house. He wasn't there yet. And she basically sat there and talked to the wife about tennis cuz they would play tennis and stuff together. Um I don't think the pastor's wife considered them friends, but I feel like the defense framed it as they were kind of friends. But she just sat there calmly talking to the pastor's wife until the pastor showed up. And um according to his wife, he kind of looked like, "I wasn't expecting a girl to be there." Um but she had known about the girl because of she was some kind of living life leader or something at the church. And so, she knew about her and plus like they said they got they played tennis or something together. And so, when he came in, he offered the Well, he offered both of them alcohol. The wife said, "I've already had some. I I don't want any." And I'm just saying it cuz they said it. I don't know for sure if that's important or not. And at some point, I think it was because either she wasn't being acknowledged by him or something, her motivation was that he cut off their affair at an earlier time and she was upset about it. And so, now she is coming to supposedly tell the wife. And then she waited for him to get there before she pulled out her gun, apparently. Or she went back to her car and got her gun. Yeah, she went back and got that gun. Y'all let me know if you already watched this that that's what they said. And so, she started shooting at the pastor. The wife at one point tried to cover her husband's head. And so, therefore she got shot in the shoulder, which she's still having medical issues with now, but she survived. The wife survived. And um the woman the defendant shot until she killed the pastor. The the wife was able to get out to run to a neighbor to say, "Call the police. Call the police." And just want to give that context of where it happened and what led up to it. What happened once you got there? As we made our approach upstairs, uh officers Dunlap and Draper were in the hallway and I was on the stairs and we could see a male black and a female black within the doorway on the floor. They were on the floor? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And so, you said you were on the stairwell. Yes. What did What happened and what did you see when you were on the stairwell? Um, I saw officer Dunlap and Draper and myself we started giving verbal commands to drop the weapon at which point it did not happen. I called for a less lethal. At which point the less lethal was brought up. It did misfire twice. I asked for another one, went and got it, at which point that less lethal did work and was successful. At which point we did move in to the apartment. So, you said that there were verbal commands that happened, correct? >> Yes, ma'am. Okay. At what point did you see a suspect? I might have peeked in just to see what was going on and radioed to our dispatch and responding officers so everybody knew what was going on. And to your knowledge was the less lethal employed? As in Did they shoot it? Yes. Okay. Um, did you see it when it was shot? Uh, yes. I heard less lethal, less lethal and then of course the Before she asked the next question, I do believe this is prosecution right now, but I was sitting there listening to the defense cross-examine the previous officer and she kept asking about the less lethal option. I believe that the defense's angle is that she wasn't a threat to anyone else but him because she also said, I think she could she the defendant said he was abusive and stuff, too. And she also like just was hurt and all this other stuff. So, he was her only target. So, she was never she was never planning on being a threat to the wife, to the cops and stuff like that. I feel like that's why the defense is harping on that. The prosecution-wise, I'm waiting to see their angle about about this. So, at that point did you stay in the stairwell or did you go up to the apartment? I made entry into the apartment. >> And what happened once you got in? Uh, observed the two victims were on the floor and our suspect was laying on the floor inside the kitchen. At which point officer Draper secured the gun from the suspect's hand with his foot and I made the gun safe. I cleared the gun. Okay. So, you had the gun in your hand. Yes. Okay. And what did you see when you had the gun in your hand? There were several rounds in the magazine and not one in the chamber. So, in your experience when you're looking at these guns, if there is not one chambered but there's a magazine in the gun, what could that mean? It could possibly mean >> What was the What was the question? I asked in his experience what would it mean if there was one chambered and if there was a magazine in the gun? He's testifying to his experience. Yeah, I think he can if he's familiar enough with guns, that foundation could be laid that he could say if you pulled the trigger what would happen. But, I don't think that he can speculate about why something would be that way. Just my proper foundation. If there was nothing chambered in the gun and there was a magazine in the gun and if it was fired, what would happen? It would go boom and a round would go somewhere. Even though there was not one chambered? >> Oh, I'm I'm sorry. I didn't hear the question correctly. If there was not one chambered, the gun would basically click and there would be no explosion or round going through that gun. Okay. All right. For my people that watched this with me or you watched it by yourself and you've already watched ahead, remind me but I think they the wife testified possibly that she reloaded that gun. So, she shot, emptied the clip and then reloaded that gun. I feel like that's what the wife testified to. Let me know if y'all remember that or not. I'll pass it to Mr. All right, cross-examination. Good morning, Officer McSwain. How are you doing? How are you? Doing good, sir. You might want to fix your collar. On your jacket. Oh. Appreciate it. Okay. Okay. Um, so taking you back to April 4th, 2019, um, you get a uh shots fired call. Were you in your vehicle solo or were you riding with a partner? I was solo. Okay. Um, and you get this call and and you arrive at the scene at the Meridian Apartments, correct? >> Yes, sir. And when you get there, um, who's there with you? Officer Dunlap and Draper. Okay. When I first arrived. All right. Did you grab your 12-gauge or did you go straight to the apartment with just your standard Glock issue? Standard Glock issue, pistol. Did the other officers go with their standard weapons or did they go uh Uh, Officer Draper had his SWAT issued rifle and I'm not sure about Officer Dunlap. Okay. Was Officer McSwain at that point? Was who? I mean off not Officer McSwain. Was Officer Jenkins there at that point? She arrived within a few seconds to a minute right behind if I'm recalling correctly. Okay. And you go up the stairs to this apartment. And when you first walk into the apartment, you see um, a female subject on the ground, correct? >> I did not walk into the apartment. I was in the stairwell. Okay. In the stairwell, could you see the female Yes, sir. >> on the ground? Yes, sir. Could you see Miss Daniels? No, sir. Okay. Um, at any point could you see Miss Daniels? As I said earlier, I might have peeked in so that I could radio to our dispatch and other officers what was going on. Okay. So, when you peeked in, did you see Miss Daniels? For maybe a brief second. >> Okay. And when you observed Miss Daniels, uh she never raised a gun at you or any of the other officers. As as far as I can recall, I never saw that. Okay. I just I can say I saw that she had a gun in her hand. Okay. Um, did you see her point the gun at herself? I cannot testify to that. I did not see that. So, you you never saw her point the gun at her mouth, her chest or her head. No, sir. I cannot testify to that. Did not see it. At some point Oh, is okay. Okay. Okay. Possibly with prosecution because remember they the defense also said she wanted to take her own life and they said she bought that gun the same day she showed up at that pastor's apartment. Um, she bought it cuz she was going to take her own life, the defendant was. So, now the prosecution's asking okay, is she trying to go like either suicide or, you know, death by police and and so he's just the prosecution's trying to find out did she ever point it at herself because the defense is saying she bought that gun to use it on herself. I remember that. So, yeah, I think they're trying to get a frame of did she ever look like she actually want to take her own life versus she just shot up and killed that pastor. I'm guessing. That's just my guess. Wait. Well, let me stop you. You all are trained in um, the use of deadly force, correct? Correct. You've been with the Calera Police Department and now you're with the Shelby County Sheriff's Office. Yes, sir. Correct. And it and it's called the deadly force use of deadly force continuum. Mhm. Correct. And it's So, so the two extremes is the less lethal. Mhm. Correct. All the way over to deadly force. And you were the one that made the decision to use the less lethal means to try to take Miss Daniels down, correct? We all decided that. But, it is a tool to use other than deadly force. Okay. >> an option to have. Okay. And it was an option and you guys uh you called for it. I think you testified earlier, correct? >> And were you the one who made the first attempt? At firing the less lethal? No, sir. I was not trained to fire a less lethal. Who Who was the first person to make that attempt? Officer Jenkins. Okay. And she tried that twice. Yes, sir. And it jammed. It uh it misfired. >> Misfired. Yes, sir. Okay. And then at some point did you run down to get another uh 12-gauge Yes, sir. to do the less lethal? Yes, sir. And you came back upstairs and you did it. No, sir. I gave it to Officer Jenkins. And Officer Jenkins did it. Yes, sir. I was not trained He just said he wasn't trained to shoot the gun so he or the less lethal weapon so he didn't do it the first or second time. He just said that. the less lethal. Okay. But, Officer Jenkins was. Yes, sir. Uh, how much time elapsed between the first attempt and the second attempt? As in when we had to change out less lethal? Correct. Um 5 seconds maybe. Okay. And from the time that you got there until the time the less lethal the second less lethal means was employed how much time passed? Can't recall to exactly that. Okay. 5 minutes. Prob- possibly >> less than that. Okay. And it Also, they had to remember their notes. I'm sure they had to reread over their notes, too, but they had to try to remember all this from happening in 2019. About 6 years ago. So, I can't even remember what happened yesterday half the time. So, when they're hesitating, I always give them grace on that because, you know, that's a long time ago to try to remember details of that night. And I'm sure they had to reread their case notes and stuff, but that's a lot. And when Officer Jenkins did it the second time, she hit Ms. Daniels. Correct. Yes. She fell to the floor. Yes. Um did you clear the weapon or did someone else clear the weapon? I cleared the weapon. Explain to the jury what clearing the weapon is. Yes, sir. So, basically, it means clearing the firearm, which makes it safe. You remove the mag, you pull the slide back, slide lock, and you check to make sure there's no round in the chamber or anything like that. Okay. And earlier you asked a question about having a bullet in the chamber versus having them in the in the magazine. >> Yes, sir. On that particular weapon, you would have to clear the slide to get the bullet into the chamber, correct? Yes, sir. Okay. You were able to take down Ms. Daniels and she was taken into custody after she was after you cleared the weapon, correct? She was already down once I cleared the weapon. Okay. And she was taken into custody. Yes, sir. Okay. If I can have a minute, your I'll pass the witness. All right. Read everything. You can read everything. I need to ask the defense. All right. Thanks, ma'am. State your name and contact information. Please pause. Detective Chris Roberts. Yeah, we approached briefly before he's called in the same. Yes. All right. Good. Okay. Seems like they're there for a while. Detective Chris Roberts. >> [clears throat] >> I'm all set, sir. Stand here. Take the oath. Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth? I do. All right. You may have a seat, sir. Thank you, ma'am. Would you stand and spell your name, please? My name is Chris, c h r i s. Last name Roberts, r o b e r t s. And what is your occupation? I'm a lieutenant with the Carville Police Department. How long have you been at the Carville Police Department? Uh approximately 27 years. Um as a lieutenant, can you tell me what your duties are? I'm a patrol lieutenant. That means I supervise the the right now I'm supervising the midnight shift patrol division. We have a approximately 14 patrol officers on our shift and I'm one of the supervisors over that shift. Do you have training firearms? Yes, sir. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Uh I like I said, I've been a police officer I've been a police officer over 31 years. During that time, I was a SWAT operator for almost 5 years. I've had training in the use of rifles, shotgun, handguns, less lethal weapons. Those weapons that police officers use. Uh do you have to qualify every year with a handgun? Twice a year. Twice a year with a handgun? Yes, sir. I want to talk to you a little bit about uh semi-automatic handguns. Yes, sir. Can you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what what that is? A semi-automatic handgun is a magazine fed handgun that according to what kind of caliber bullet that you put inside of it that you insert the number of rounds that you want inside of the magazine, insert the magazine into the handgun, you rack the slide back, and when the slide goes forward, a round is chambered into the gun and it's ready to fire. And then uh how do you fire that when it's ready to fire? Uh some handguns have safety, some do not. If the handgun does not have a safety, you just pull the trigger. If the handgun does have a safety, you have to take it off safety and put it into the firing mode and just pull the trigger. And so, every time you pull the trigger, what happens? Another round goes off until the magazine is empty. And what happens when the magazine is empty? The slide will lock back showing that there's no more rounds to be fed into the chamber, so nothing else can be fired. So, if you run out of bullets or fire it till you run out of bullets, there's not a round in the chamber at that point. No, sir. The the slide locks back automatically and it cannot be fired again. If the slide is then forward and you insert a magazine full of ammunition into that weapon, will there be one in the chamber? Yes, sir, there will be. Okay, I think you misunderstood my question. If the slide is forward, Oh, I'm sorry. I I I mis- I misunderstood the question. Yes, the slide has to be racked back and you insert the magazine, then uh you release the slide, the slide goes forward, and that chambers a round into the So, if you If if you insert a magazine without racking the slide, basically, will there be a round in the chamber? No, there won't. I want to talk to you a little bit about April 4th of 2019. You already testified you were with the Carville Police Department. What was your What were your duties at that time? I was at the rank of detective during that time. And did you um respond to the call on Elkstone Place in Carville on that day? Yes, sir. I was the on-call detective that night. And so, you called about what time you got the call, what time you got there? It was around 11:00 or so. I I don't reme- It was late that night. And when you get there, what what Tell Tell ladies and gentlemen of the jury what you observed and kind of what you did to start. Uh since we got there, myself and Lieutenant Lieutenant Young and two other detectives made the scene. We secured the scene. Uh went over the crime scene seeing what we were dealing with, and including where shell casings were, where uh also weapon that was used was located, where there was any blood splattering. Um we talked to the officers that first made the scene there. We talked to um the firemen that were there to see what happened with them. It was just uh seeing what the scene was about and then start our investigation. So, one of the things I think you just said was you kind of take over the scene when you get there. Yes, they did. The patrol officers release the scene to the detectives and then it becomes our scene. Um do you Is one of the things you do is you start identifying and collecting evidence from that scene? Yes, sir. And did you do that at that scene on Elkstone? Yes, sir. And you Excuse me. Take the rounds. If you would speak up, sir. I apologize. She was recording things. Okay. You can speak up, sir. Can I touch this? Yes, absolutely. If you can open that up and look at it and and just want to ask you if you can identify what's in there and how you can identify what it is. This is the handgun that we collected at that apartment that night. Uh I recognize it from the serial number and the model. Uh is there anything else in that box? There's a magazine with several rounds of ammunition. How many rounds are in it? Uh appears to be five. And you collected all that from the scene on Elkstone? Uh all the all the detectives that night. We all worked together to collect it. When after it's collected, is what what happens to it then? Uh we take it back to the police department and seal it in bags and seal it with evidence tape and then place it into the evidence. So, and that was done with with everything in that box. Correct. Judge, I would ask that that be marked as uh two? Three. Three. Any objection? No, your honor. No, your honor. You can show the gun and the same rounds as exhibit three. I'm just going to seal this bag. >> I'm going to hand you a a picture and ask you if you can identify it. This is a picture of the handgun that we located at the apartment that night. I judge I would ask that be marked as exhibit four, please. Any objection? No objection. And may I publish that? Yes. I don't know uh exhibit number four. Yes, you may publish. And specifically what is that photo, what was the purpose of taking that photo? It showed the model, it's a Ruger handgun and it shows the serial number that is associated with that handgun. So what is the serial number on there? It is 45551219. And is that number unique to that handgun? Each handgun has a unique serial number. >> So no other handgun in the world has that serial number. It should not. I'm going to hand you this. I'm going to ask you to I don't know if you want gloves, it doesn't matter to me and I'm just don't know if you have anything to open that up, but I want to ask you to open that up and identify what's inside of that. Thank you. May I open it now, sir? Yes. Thank you. Do you recognize those items? Yes, sir, I do. And can you tell, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what they are? Uh these are the shell casings and a spent round that we located right inside the apartment. Can you tell us, count shell casings and spent rounds, what what does that mean? A shell casing is what's left over uh when a bullet goes out the the chamber. Uh it's the the contains the gunpowder uh and it's ejected from the gun when the the gun is fired. And then the spent bullet is actually the metal that actually goes out the end of the barrel. What whatever you're shooting at, that's where they'll hit. So what you're describing to me is something that starts as one piece. Correct. It's a casing with a bullet on the end, the casing contains gunpowder. Correct. You put the entire uh You put that into the gun. You put it into the magazine. Into the magazine. Yes, sir. And then what happens when you pull the trigger? The fire firing pin on the on the weapon hits the primer on the shell, which ignites the gunpowder inside of the shell, which explodes and shoots the bullet out through the barrel. So then it separates. Correct. And the bullet goes out through the barrel. Correct. What happens to the casing that's left in the weapon? In this type of weapon, it's ejected from the weapon. When you say ejected, like is it shot out like the bullet or is it something different? No, the bullet goes straight out, the shell casing goes out to the side. Um and so when when And how far approximately? I mean, does it go a mile, does it go feet, um The shell casing or the bullet? Uh the shell casing Maybe 10 feet, not not far. So if someone fires uh a weapon in a room seven times, would you anticipate you would recover seven shell casings from there if they were using a semi-automatic handgun? Yes, sir. Did you recover shell casings from that residence on Elkstone? Yes, sir, we did. How many? Seven. And is that that's those? Correct. Plus I believe there is a bullet one spent copper bullet also. Okay, tell tell me like how that would happen. Um Uh whenever the bullet if it goes into a body or and it exits the body, the the bullet will be left at the scene. So it would lose most of its velocity at that point. Correct. And you and you might not find that. Correct. Uh would it be unusual not to find all of the bullets that were fired? Correct. The the bullet could be left in the victim, the bullet could be in a wall that we can never recover. Uh the bullet could fly if it hit a window going outside the residence that we may never find again. So if it went out the door, the door was open and went out the door, very unlikely we would ever find that again. Okay. If I'm just going to ask you to put those back in there. I'm going to ask that be marked as exhibit six. Any objection? Uh no objection. Okay. We shall be shell casings and spent rounds found at this apartment as exhibit five. Going to ask you if you can identify this. Yes, sir, I can. And what is that? This is the evidence that was collected by the ME from Mr. Perry's body. So the medical examiner. Correct. During the autopsy. Correct. Uh so when some when they perform an autopsy and collect evidence, um the doctor, what does the doctor do with it? They they collect it for us, seal it up and then turn it over to the police department. And who went to the medical examiner's office to pick up the evidence that they collected? I did. And it can you tell by those markings if that's what you picked up after they performed an autopsy on Rose Perry? Yes, sir. There was uh looks like hair, nail, there's a a few other things here besides the bullets to me. Okay. Judge, I'm going to ask that be marked next exhibit, please. Any objection? Your honor, will that just be a a cumulative evidence from the ME? That's what I'm going to ask that it be marked as, yeah. Any objection? No, your honor. All right. All right, we'll show this evidence uh collected by the medical examiner from the victim's body as exhibit six. As part of the work you did on this case, detective district attorney, lieutenant, I'm sorry. Did you uh submit any items to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigations? Yes, sir, I did. And what items did you um send there? Uh the items from the ME, I submitted the gun, I submitted the spent shell casings also. Did you submit the bullet that was recovered as well from the crime scene? Yes, sir. So seven spent shell casings and the bullet from the crime scene, five bullets from the ME and the Ruger. Correct. Uh all of those were submitted to the TBI. Correct. >> And what did you request that the Tennessee Bureau of Investigations do with those items? Uh I wanted them to see if the bullet matched the weapon that we retrieved from the scene. I wanted to make sure that the shell casings that we retrieved came from the weapon that we retrieved from the scene. Okay. And after they finished their Did they do the examination? Yes, sir. And after they finished their examination, who gets it What happens to them? Do you go pick the evidence back up or Uh it can either stay with the TBI till court or we can go pick it up and put it back into our evidence. And the items that have previously been marked, those are all the items that you sent to the TBI to be analyzed. As I recall. Yes, sir. Did you uh try to determine uh where and when the the Ruger that's been introduced into evidence was purchased in New Bern? Yes, sir, I did. And were you able to do that? Yes, sir, I was. And tell tell us what you found out. Uh what we did was we submitted the the make, model, and serial number to ATF, Tobacco and Firearms, for them to run a trace on the on the weapon to see when it was purchased and who purchased it. Uh and who purchased it? Uh it showed it was purchased by the defendant. Is uh the defendant in the courtroom? Yes, she is. Can you point her out for me? Uh she's over here in the white coat and the glasses and the blue shirt. Judge, for the record, he's indicating Ms. Daniels. Where did uh she purchase that? It was purchased at a sporting goods store in Sherwood, Arkansas. And um were you able to uh obtain from that store a receipt that where she purchased it? Yes, sir, I did. And can you get this? Ask you if you can identify that. Yes, sir. Yes, sir, I did. What is that? This is a receipt showing that the defendant purchased a Ruger EC9 9-mm handgun and a box 9-mm ultra target range ammo and a box of 9-mm JHP elite V-Crown um ammo. Okay, so the part I'm clear on obviously it makes sense because they even talked about it in their opening statements is that she purchased that gun on the same day she killed the pastor. And she can't deny it because she they had her credit card on file with her name on it. Um they saw the receipt and they saw her on video purchasing the gun. So I I know their thing is obviously going to be premeditated. Prosecution's thing will be premeditated. Versus I don't know what if the defense is going for crime of passion. I don't know what the the defense is going for yet with that, how they're going to try to explain away the fact that she purchased that gun on the same day she ended up showing up to his house and um shooting shooting the pastor. I know they keep saying that she was suicidal. They do keep saying it. And maybe she was, I don't know. But what I'm trying to figure out is what is the importance of the fact that not how many bullets she shot, I get that. I get that. But the part about there was when they got there the when she was holding the gun there was a new magazine in there and no bullets were chambered. I'm trying to figure out what's prosecution's point of pointing that out. So that's I'm just listening cuz the technical stuff they'll usually line it up so you hear from the experts, you hear from the people that was on scene, and then they'll kind of lead the jury or us, you know, into why that technical part was important. And I'm just waiting for them to show me why was that part important about the bullet not being in the chamber and the magazine being full in the gun. And that's got a mark at the top. Is that a mark you got when you that you made on it when you um obtained that? Correct. That shows the file number to the my case. Uh does it show when she made that purchase? Yes, sir. Actually, what day did she make that purchase? Uh April 4th, 2019 at 4:37 p.m. Does it show the last four of the credit card that she made that purchase with? Yes, sir, it does. And what are the last four of that credit card? 7571 to a Visa. Judge, I would ask that be made next to Google, please. Any objection? Uh no, Your Honor. We'll show the one purchase receipt as exhibit 7. May I publish that to the jury? Yes. So is that what you just identified? Yes, sir, it is. And at the top Fort Thompson, is that the name of the sporting goods store? Yes, sir, it is. And that's in Sherwood, Arkansas. Correct. Did you go to that store? Yes, sir, I did. How long did it take you to get there? Uh it's about a 3-hour drive. From Collier? Yes, sir. And uh right under the word receipt uh where it says 4/4/19 4:37 and 07 seconds, uh that's the the date and the time that she purchased that. Correct. It's got her I also just want to point out this is one of the rare times that the defendant will also testify during this trial because most of them that I watch like, you know, Young Thug did not testify. Uh Jarvis Butts did not take the stand. Most times I don't see them take the stand themselves, but on this one Latasha Daniels will eventually take the stand and testify. The name down there Latasha Daniels with an address in Little Rock, Arkansas, is that correct? >> Correct. And then right under there is RUG EC9S what 9-mm, what does that mean? That is a Ruger EC9 9-mm handgun. And under the 22990 is a serial number? Uh yes, 45551219. Yes, sir. [clears throat] And is that the same serial number as the Ruger that was previously entered into this evidence? Yes, sir, it is. The uh Was Ms. Daniels' car found at the the scene at uh Elkstone? Yes, it was. Did you get a search warrant for that car? Yes, sir, I did. And did you search it? Yes, sir, I did. Want to hand you something. Can you identify that? Yes, sir, this is the credit card that I located inside the vehicle when I I executed the search warrant. And what are the last four on that credit card? 7571. And is that the same last four of the credit card that was used to purchase the handgun that day in uh Sherwood, Arkansas? Yes, it is. Judge, I would ask that be made next to Google, please. Any objection? Uh no, Your Honor. All right, we'll show the credit card marked as exhibit 8. Uh when you went to uh Thompson Sporting Goods in Sherwood uh did you uh inquire from the owner as to whether they had a a video surveillance system in that store? Yes, sir, I I did. The day before if I may um I contacted the uh the the uh sporting goods store and told them what I would what I was needing and they they sent me four still shots from a video of the defendant going in the store and purchasing it. And then several days later I went to the store and actually got a thumb drive from the store of that video. I want to play a video for you and ask you if you can uh identify. And I I will say before I play this that in the uh in attempt to be more efficient with the court and the jury's time, I've shortened the video and sped it up at certain points. Okay. And you even put a little writing in there. I think you'll see but I I basically want you to tell me is this at least portions of the video that you recovered from Thompson Sporting Goods in Sherwood? Yes. Your Honor, I just made a note for the record. Although this may not be the appropriate witness for some of this evidence, in the spirit of judicial economy we are not objecting to any of this being entered through this witness. All right, thank you. No. >> I know you can't literally tell what's in someone's head, even though we know what's going to happen on this day, but I'm still finding myself trying to look at her expression, her posture, like even the clothes she had on. Like I'm just looking like I don't know. I can't tell that way, but I'm just sitting here just cuz I you know what's going to happen and you just like it's like a hindsight thing just watching it go down. And if you came in later, right now we're at the store, the sporting goods store, where the defendant bought the gun on the same day she killed the pastor or killed the victim. Oops, sorry. Detective Roberts, is that the video that you recovered from the sporting goods store? Yes, sir, it was. The owner is going to be here tomorrow, but I I'm moving now. I've put the entire video and then the kind of sped up clip both on the thumb drive and I would ask that they be entered into evidence. And again with the same uh admonishment that we don't have an issue with it going in through this witness for judicial economy. Okay. All right. Can you see the man in the show the video on the purchase of the gun? All right, I actually now this is from years ago, but I actually have somebody I can ask to double-check me on this, but background checks I guess they don't take as long as they used to because it used to be that if someone was purchasing a gun, you'd have to call a certain number, give their information out. And maybe and maybe that still did take a long time cuz I mean she was in there for a little bit. It wasn't like they just scanned it, give us your credit card, here you go. So maybe they were running a background check in those few minutes. Um but yeah, it can happen while you're still there and they either say yay or nay. Like whoever they're calling, hold on one second, let me ask my my expert. Hold on. I'm getting the acronym right now, but I'll keep hitting play. Sorry, I didn't mean to pause it. Do you have any of those pictures? Can you identify that person? Yes, sir, I can. And what is that? This is the still shot that I received from the sporting goods store that emailed me the day after I received the the ATF uh filing information about the handgun. Okay, so used to be when it was over the phone, they were calling a place called NICS and they would the store owner has a certain code that's special to that store they would give, then they would give the person's social security number, and they would come back with yes, they're cleared to do it or no, they're not. Um but yeah, that's how it used to be done. So Ace Moonshot said it's now it's all online, so definitely it's going to happen even quicker. Is that taken off the video? Yes, it is. Judge, I would ask that they mark that as exhibit 2. No objection. We'll show the still shot of the defendant walking in the store at 15. May I publish that to the jury? Yes. And is that what you just identified? Yes, sir, it is. And do you do you recognize that individual? That's the defendant. So you recognize that as being Latosha Daniels? Yes, I do. That's all the questions I have. Cross-examination. Thank you. You may not cross-examine this witness. Yes. >> [clears throat] >> Is it Detective Roberts? I'm a lieutenant now. Lieutenant Roberts. Yes, sir. Good afternoon, Lieutenant Roberts. My name is Arthur Boyd. I represent Ms. Daniels and I just um probably have more than I probably have more than a few questions. I I understand. You you were the lead investigator in this case. Correct. And with that comes a few responsibilities. Yes, sir. Correct. Um when you're a lead investigator in a case, particularly a case like this, um you have a an array of duties. Correct. Um and and the first thing that you do is you get a call and when you come to a crime scene, you have to secure that scene. Yeah, usually the patrol officers have already secured the scene. Uh and once that scene has been secured, you make sure that it's been secured properly. Correct. Correct. Um then you do you canvas the area to to talk to witnesses, to see if anybody saw anything? Uh we do our best, yes. Okay. In this particular case, did you canvas um the area or the apartment complex to see if there were any witnesses? I I do not recall if I did. Uh there were there were two other detectives with me that assisted me with this case, but I I do not remember if I particularly uh going door-to-door. There was only one other apartment on next to Mrs. Perry's apartment there. Okay. So you the scene you arrived has been secured by the other officers, correct? Correct. Um was was Ms. Perry or or Mr. Perry's body still there? Had they been taken to the hospital? No, they'd already been taken by the ambulance. And Ms. Daniels had been taken away as well. Correct. The Perrys went to the Med or now Regional One and the defendant went to Cardinal Baptist. And so now your job is to secure the scene and collect evidence. Correct. And earlier when Mr. McCauphin was talking to you, he you started talking about that some of the evidence that you gathered. Correct. Um in a case like this, um once you started gathering evidence, you start kind of putting together the pieces to a puzzle. Yes, sir. Is that a fair assessment? Yes, it is. And in this case, um, you didn't know Ms. Daniels. Correct. No. You didn't know Mr. Perry. No. You didn't know Ms. Perry. No. You didn't know anything about who they were or their prior relationships. I know nothing about this case. Okay. So, you come to the scene and you secure it. Correct. You start gathering and collecting evidence. And that's important because you have to secure that evidence so that it makes it to this courtroom uh, for trials. Correct. Um, and so, you did that. Correct. All right, before the the defense keeps asking their questions. So, Wakao says some states do have mandatory waiting periods even after background check. Now, see, that's why I try I try to say most, not all. I I try. I don't think I said it on this one, but yes, I always always it seems to vary by state on a lot of rules. So, I'm not surprised. Looks like Arkansas possibly same day. And then another state I lived in was same day, same hour. Same half hour, really. But, yeah, I'm not surprised that some of them you still have to wait. Um, part of your responsibilities and duties as the lead investigator is, um, you secure the scene, we've talked about that. You collect evidence. Mr. Ca- Calvin, going through what you secured, and you make sure that it gets to the appropriate parties. Correct. In this particular case, you sent the shell casings to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. Correct. And you made sure that, um, they got that, and received it. Correct. So, that they could test it. Correct. And make sure that it was fired from that weapon. Correct. Early on in in your investigation, it was pretty obvious to you that this was, uh, uh, Ms. Daniels that shot Mr. Perry. Is that correct? That's what we we understood. Okay. And, um, once you went to the sporting goods store in Arkansas, you saw where she had purchased that weapon. Correct. >> Correct? Um, if I can show you what's already been marked as I think the exhibit number 10. I might be a little challenged. I see it here. Off topic, but I feel like when older men wear their hair this way, older men of color, they were menace in their younger days. I just can't get that out of my head. Including my own grandfather. >> [laughter] >> Um, the sporting goods store, um, Thompson's Sporting Goods Store, correct? Correct. And she's only, uh, carrying her purse. As far as I can tell. Yes, sir. >> She's not carrying a purse. I don't see a purse. Um, and at some point later on in the video, you see her purchase the weapon. Correct. And you said that happened at, um, according to the receipt, at 4:00 um, 37. According to the receipt, yes, sir. Okay. And she leaves the sporting goods store. Correct. Uh, and Yes, sir. And at some point, based on your investigation, um, she comes to Memphis. Yes, she does. And, um, goes downtown. How How far is it from uh, Sherwood to downtown? Uh, 2 and 1/2 3 hours. Okay. She Cuz earlier you testified it was 3 hours to Cardi's deal. Yes, sir. So, about 2 and 1/2 hours would be That's my best guess to me, yes, sir. And then another 30 minutes from downtown Memphis to Cardi's deal. Yes, sir. Um, and this all happened She the the purchase was at 4:37. Correct. Correct? According to the business. And what was the time that you responded? Uh, it I said it was late. It was like 11:00 or so. 11:00 11:37 >> It could have could have been that, yes, sir. Okay. And, um, earlier, let's talk about you testified that you went out to Ms. Daniels' car, and you retrieved a credit card. No, that was several days later. Okay. Okay. Several days later, you went to her car and you retrieved the credit card. Yeah, we uh, we towed her car to our secure lot. Okay. And secured it, and then obtained a search warrant to search it. Okay. And when you got that search warrant, you obtained the credit card. Yes, sir. Correct. There was no purse in the car, correct? No, sir. And there was no purse in the still video Yes, sir. when she was at, um, the sporting So, she was just free-balling her card in the car? A loose credit card in the car? I would I could never. I could never. Okay. I just want to see uh There's a reason they ask these questions. I'm waiting for defense to um, I don't know. Bring up their argument on why they're asking how he obtained her credit card or the location of the credit card and when. I I I don't recall if there was a There was a lot of stuff inside that car, but I I don't recall a purse. Now, getting back to your investigation, um, as this investigation kind of went on, you started to, um, put the pieces to this puzzle together, and information came in. Yes, sir. Uh, one of the things that came to you, you got a call from a Chrishelle Marshall. Yes. And Ms. Marshall told you about some videos that she was privy to on, um, is it Was it an app called Marco Polo? A social Social, uh, media app called Marco Polo. Correct. And she after you and her conversed for a while, um, she told you she knew Broderick Perry. Correct. Correct. And that they had met through this app. Yes, they I don't believe she ever physically met him. I believe it was just through the app only. Okay. And at some point, she sent you some videos. Correct. And you secured those videos. Correct. You watched them. Correct. And you turned those over to, the state of Tennessee. I I put them on CD, and then I submitted them to the DA. I am nosy. I hope we get to see those videos. And thank Yes, they reminded me. The name of the app he was recording his stuff on, acting like he was a I don't know. He just seemed like a podcast bro. It's the best I can put it. Was on that Marco Polo app. Which he told his wife was a book club. That's he was in a group chat for a book club. I'm going to hand you a thumb drive. >> Thank you. Um, you recognize that? Uh, this is a thumb drive that y'all showed me earlier. Okay. And on that thumb drive were those videos or some of the videos from Marco Polo. Yeah, uh, there were quite a few that I viewed. And you all of those weren't played in court, but there were about 30 videos on Marco Polo that were provided to you. Uh, yes, sir. I plus or minus. I don't remember exactly how many, but there were quite a few. Okay. And you reviewed all of it. Yes, sir, as I recall. At some point, you, um, also, let's talk about Tabitha Perry. You also, um, interviewed Tabitha Perry. Is that correct? Myself and Detective Sharkey did. Yes. You You didn't talk to her the night of the incident. Correct? >> No, I didn't. No, she went straight to the men. Okay. She came in and saw you the next day. Correct. I believe I talked to her on the telephone first, and then she came in. Okay. And she came in Was she alone, or was she with them? No, she was with family members. Okay. Did she have, uh, two other people with her, past pastors? It It could have been. I know she had other, uh, support staff with her, or support people with her. Okay. Was Pastor Pointer one of the people? It could have been. I'm sorry, I do not recall who all was with her. Okay. And at some point, you talked to her. Correct. And she didn't know, uh, at this time, you didn't have any information about these Marco Polo videos. At that time, no, we did Pastor Pointer was like the cover-up guy for the victim. He at one point told the the victim at one point told the defendant, "If I have an emergency, a life emergency while I'm with you, do not call 911, call Pointer." So, that gives you a little bit of an idea of the relationship. But, she was very surprised or didn't know anything about a relationship between Ms. Daniels or Mr. Perry. Correct. Okay. You interviewed her about um how she invited um Ms. Daniels over, I mean, invited her into the apartment. Correct. She talked to you about how they caught up. Correct. And then at some point how a Mr. Mr. Perry arrived. Correct. They talked for a while. Yes. And then at some point I can't recall. I don't know if I'm not getting what was talked about. What? I can't recall the problem. Yeah, they're the they're the worst kind of predators. Nothing is worse than silence. Uh I I can't I don't know if any leadership at that church was good. That That's some church predators. Um let me see. Ace Moonshot said there's a lot of chain of custody questions, too. That's right. I believe it was good games. Interrogation from the side. You know what I mean? I appreciate that. Do you um Do you remember if you taped it or not? Now again, Mr. Roberts, what I'm asking you were things that you learned through your investigation. Yes, sir. I do. Um and you learned that that at some point Mr. Perry came. Correct. And that um at some point a shooting occurred. Correct. >> Correct. You didn't know any of the history or background between Mr. Perry and Ms. Daniels. Correct? Not until later in my investigation. >> Okay. But it when you were talking to Ms. Perry interviewing her, you didn't know any of that information. >> No, I did not. And so um and that was very early on in your investigation. It was like the next day or so. >> How long after you talked to uh Ms. Perry did you uh get a call from Ms. Marshall and get those Marco Polo videos? Do you remember? Within a week. Okay. Would those those Would those have been helpful had you had those prior to your interview? Yes, it would have been nice to know. Okay. If I can have a minute of your time. you with Now earlier I was asking you about your interview with uh Tabitha. Correct? >> Correct. And you said that you and was Officer Sharkey Detective Sharkey. Detective Sharkey were present. Correct. And you couldn't remember who was in the interview room with Tabitha Perry. No, I do not recall. Now I am not asking you who is Yes. I'm going to show you a transcript of that. You want to just take a minute. Sure. Don't read it out loud. Just Okay. read it. Okay. This is Tabitha. Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you. I would be a horrible expert witness just witness for the defense. I'd be horrible cuz I'd be sitting there reading that paper like he is trying to read that transcript. As soon as I look up, they're going to be like, "Okay, did you have time to read it?" I'm going to say, "Yes." And they're going to be like, "Okay, so what did such and such say?" I forgot, man. I have to see how the paper back. Like I I can't do this. It's too much nerves and my memory goes when I start getting nervous for sure. So so just a little bit ago I asked you about um who was present during that interview and you said you couldn't recall. >> That's right. Uh after reviewing the transcript uh was there a Pastor Turner there from New Hope Boulevard? Yes, sir. And a pastor appointed from St. Mark's. Yes, sir. Okay. During the course of your investigation, you it also led you to go to Little Rock. Is that correct? I did that all the same day. I went to the gun store and to Little um Little Rock also. Okay. Post office there. Tell the jury where you went to to in Little Rock. Uh there is a cigar store in Little Rock and there's also a hotel in Little Rock that I went to in in part of my investigation. Okay. And when you went to the Do you remember the name of the cigar bar you went to? Uh Sons uh something and Sons. I I think it's Mr. Effing Effelins' cigar store. It was Effing. David Effing. That's Yes, sir. And Gregory. You talked to both of them. Yes, sir. I did. And they own a cigar bar in in Little Rock. Correct? Correct. And that was the place that uh Pastor Perry Broaddus Perry frequented. Yes, sir. And he also had a locker there. Correct. And you went and you uh opened that locker. Uh yeah, I had the staff open it for me. Okay. And you retrieved the weapon from that locker. Yes, sir. I did. Okay. Now um going back to your uh earlier investigation, I'm going to flip back to um when you got to the crime scene and it would have been secured and you started gathering and collecting evidence. Um one of the things that you did is you got Mr. Perry's um cell phone. Correct. Correct. And at some point you tried to open it or get into the cell phone. I believe we obtained search warrants, but I do not recall us ever getting information out. I don't recall if we got information from the phone. Correct. You were never able to get any information out of his cell phone. That's right. His wife didn't have the code to it. I don't recall that. I I I just know I don't remember getting information from his phone or from the defendant's phone. Okay. Now also when you were shown um or you were asked a series of questions by Mr. McCalpin about this weapon. Correct. The revolver? Yeah. >> Yes, sir. And you were asked questions about um how to load how how to load bullets. [clears throat] How you put the bullets into the gun. Correct? >> Correct. How you use the slide. Correct. >> Correct. And one of the questions he asked you was in order to get the bullet in the chamber, you have to pull the slide back. Correct? Correct. And then release it. Okay. And when you retrieved that gun, there were bullets in the chamber there, but there wasn't one in the slide. Correct. Okay. Do you remember whether the slide was open or closed? As I recall, it was it was made safe so the slide would have If I was I recall it, the slide was back. Okay. But you weren't at the crime you weren't at the scene of any of this. And you couldn't tell the jury how that gun was at the time of the shooting or shortly thereafter. No, sir. It was sitting on I believe it was a coffee table or a table right in inside the kitchen area there. Okay. It was rendered safe. Now part of what you did when you secured the crime scene is you started talking to the other officers that were there. Correct. Correct. And um at some point you found out that Ms. Daniels had been shot with a non-lethal or non-lethal force had been used. Correct. Okay. You also found out that she had made attempts to or pointed a gun at her chest, head, or mouth. Correct? >> That was information given to me. Okay. And in your training, you all are trained as officers to um you have a continuum of deadly force training. Correct? We have a force continuum. Force continuum. And from on one extreme is less lethal force. Correct. All the way to the other extreme of deadly force. Correct. And it's it's based on the situation, the officers are are trained to use their instinct their observation as to what type of force is to be used. Correct? Correct. And in this case, you found out or you came to know that the least lethal force had been used. Correct. That at some point they attempted least less lethal force. That the gun had misfired. Uh I I that they had one shotgun round that misfired twice. Another rifle was obtained. >> Another shotgun >> And they were another shot was taken. Yes, sir. Okay. Going back to your interview with um Ms. Perry at the time. Okay. Okay. Yes. Um you also um uh uh uh You also found out that she had been shot. Correct. And you also found out that she didn't believe Ms. Daniels had tried to shoot her. I I don't recall that. Uh I recall Mrs. Perry telling me that she tried to cover her husband to protect him. And that Ms. uh that the defendant shot her. I I don't recall her saying that she didn't think that Ms. Daniels had shot her. If I can have a minute, ma'am. I don't recall that. Your Honor, may I have some water? Thank you, ma'am. While she locates that for me, um are you going to take a minute? No, no. I'm I'm fine. I'm Um You also learned that that during this exchange um between Ms. Daniels at the end, right before the shooting or shortly after the shooting, that she made the statement, "He broke my heart. He broke my heart." Yes, sir. That was put in my affidavit. Yes, sir. If I can approach the witness. Yes. I have no questions. Okay. May I sit down? Thank you. I know this has been considered a wild one since you 6 years. Yeah. You had a chance uh Lieutenant Robinson to refresh your rec- recollection. >> Um and then so I'll ask the question again. Um when you were questioning Ms. Perry, you found out that she didn't believe Ms. Daniels was trying to shoot her, correct? I believe she was trying to shoot her husband again. Okay. And not her. Correct. Correct. If I can have a minute. Okay. We Are we going to look at one more witness and then I'll stop there for this one and then we'll do a part two. But um Ace Moonshot said her being suicidal or failing to unalive herself isn't going to help, I don't think. It just adds to guilt more than it mitigates as far as I can tell. I So I agree with you, but I will say maybe it helped to lessen her um charges that she was found guilty on. That's the only thing I think it may have helped. Like they they may have been like, "Well, there's a possibility he could have been like this and possibly" So they they downgraded some of her charges, but that's about as far as it went. I'll pass the witness. We don't have any questions. I have no questions. Okay. May I sit down? Thank you. Good morning. Good morning. Could you state and spell your name for Yes, this is Detective Jonathan J O N A T H A N Watts W A T T S. I was about to guess what he did and I thought he was for some reason going to be like the medical examiner or something. I did not think he was going to say detective. Where are you employed? With the Cartersville Police Department. And how long have you been with the Cartersville Police Department? Uh just over 20 years. And what positions have you held? Uh started as a patrol officer and now as a detective as a detective in the criminal investigations division. As a part of your duties, do you take pictures of crime scenes? Yes, I do. I'm going to take you back to April 4th of 2019. Do you recall taking pictures of a crime scene on that day? Yes, ma'am. And was that crime scene on Elkstone Place in Cartersville? Yes, ma'am. It was. Is that an apartment complex? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So what happened when you responded there? I was asked to come help process the crime scene uh in regards to uh a shooting scene where two individuals had been shot. When you say process, what does that all entail? So for me at that day it was photographing the crime scene. Um usually processing will be photographing, collecting evidence, things of that nature. Okay. And where did you take pictures of? I took pictures as we entered the apartment complex, uh the apartment where the incident occurred and where the suspect's vehicle was in the parking lot. Okay. I'm going to pass you these pictures, Detective Watts. Could you just take a look at these? Yes, ma'am. And after you look at them, if you could tell us if you recognize those pictures. Yes, ma'am. And do those pictures accurately depict the scene at the time you responded? Yes, ma'am. It does. And are those the pictures that Uh can you speak up? Yes. Thank you. So do those pictures accurately depict the scene when you responded? Yes, ma'am. If they end up being able to show the pictures, just know this is where possibly you're going to see blood and things like that. So just be forewarned. I don't know. I did not watch this ahead of time, but it is about a murder. He took pictures of the scene. Possibly you see blood and I don't know what else. So that's that's your warning. And are those the pictures that you took of the scene? Yes, ma'am. They are. Your Honor, if we could have these photos of the crime scene entered as an collective exhibit in evidence. Uh no objection. All right. We'll show the photos of the crime scene, collective exhibit 12. And Your Honor, once they are numbered, may I have them published to the jury? Yes. Detective Watts, could you tell us what is in this photo? So that is the uh identifying the two apartments that are upstairs in that apartment complex as you approach the uh building itself. And what about this photo? That would be the stairwell leading up to the two apartments upstairs. Okay. So when you arrived at the apartment, at which which apartment complex did you respond to? Was it the one on the right or the left? So when you go upstairs, it's to the right. Would you recall what's in this photograph? Yes, ma'am. Those are photographs of the less lethal um ammunition. Okay. They're 12 gauges? Yes. Okay. And what do we see right here? That would be the ends of those um less lethal ammunitions. Okay. So same evidence, just photographed from a different angle. Correct. Yes, ma'am. And what do we see in this photo? That would be the entrance to the apartment number 205 where the incident occurred as it was seen on my arrival. Okay. And do you see this area on the wall? Yes, ma'am. Do you know what that is? That's blood. Okay. And this picture right here? Yes, ma'am. That's from the doorway entering into the apartment complex. Okay. So, just a close-up of the last picture we just saw. Yes, ma'am. And do you see this area behind the door? Uh yes, ma'am. What's on the wall right there? >> There's blood there. And this area that's kind of next to the rug on the right-hand side, do you know what's all in this area? Uh yes, ma'am. There was uh some like a shoe and some clothing and a lot of blood as well. And what is this a photo of? Uh photo of the handgun where it was laying. Do you recall what brand of firearm that was? I believe it was a Ruger. Okay. I believe this photo has already been admitted to evidence. But did you take this photo as well? Uh yes, ma'am. Okay. And is this the same firearm that was found on the coffee table? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And could you read that serial number for us really quick? Yes, it's 455-51219. And what is this a picture of? Uh it's a picture of the magazine with a with ammunition in it. And was that also on the coffee table next to the Ruger? Yes, ma'am. Okay. And what's shown next to plaque number one? At this point, I just need the camera person to pick. Are you going to let us see the pictures? Are you going to keep it on the defendant? Because we we're not really getting to see the pictures by the time they pan back up, they've changed the picture. Yes, this crime happened in 2019, April of 2019. The trial just happened a month ago. Anitra, yep. No, it's okay. Um some don't take that long, some do, and I don't you know, there's certain delays and stuff. I don't know what caused this one to take 6 years before she finally went on trial. But yeah, this this just the trial just concluded last month, I believe, according to like the how long it's been up on YouTube. But yeah, 2019 was when the actual crime was committed. That is a spent shell casing. Okay. And was that the area that you previously described next to the shoe on the ground? That was the as soon as you enter into the apartment. It was right there. Yes, ma'am. And what's next to plaque number two? It is another spent shell casing. Okay. And where is this area? Is this near a wall? But that was I believe behind the door um the open door. If you were to close it, it was behind the door. Oh, behind the front door? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Plaque number three. Could you tell us what's shown in this? That is a mangled round that had been fired. Do you know what area of the home this was found in? I believe that was right in front of the doors on the right there where that heavy amount of blood was. Plaque number five. That's a spent shell casing or a spent Excuse me, a spent round. Okay. And is that a door frame that it's next to? Uh yes, ma'am. Okay. Is that near the entrance of the home? Yes, ma'am. And I also want to say cuz Anitra said, "Please forgive me. I don't know how these trials work." Ask your questions. Talking to everybody that comes across the video, ask your questions. It's not that I'll always know the answer. I'm mostly guessing as well, but a lot of times people in the chat have already followed this and they're just coming in to watch it with other people or they just may know like they may have more knowledge or something. So, don't don't be afraid of asking questions. Plaque number six. What's shown here? It is a another spent shell casing. And this is inside the home? Yes, ma'am. And what does this photograph show? The suspect vehicle. And if you could describe to us what kind of vehicle this is. I believe a Toyota um silver in color as you or sedan. And what about this? That is also of the vehicle just from the different angle. Okay. Did you execute a search warrant on this vehicle or did you just take pictures? I just took pictures of it. Okay. And so, once you took the photographs at the crime scene and the suspect vehicle, what did you do with them? With the photos? Yes. I submitted them into evidence. So, did you do anything else pertaining to this investigation? Uh the evidence that was brought back, we photograph I photographed that in the lab uh and then all the pictures were submitted. I'll pass it over to Mr. Cross examination. Uh yes, sir. Good morning, Mr. Foreman. Uh I just have a few questions. It may take me a minute. I'm a little challenged with this uh technology. But you were you were uh called to the scene after um it had been secured. Correct. Yes, sir. And your job was solely to take pictures. Yes, sir. You didn't talk to any witnesses. No, sir. You didn't um see anything the night of the the shooting. As far as what occurred in the No, sir. You weren't there when officers first arrived. No, sir. You didn't interview any witnesses. No, sir. You strictly just took photographs. Yes, sir. You would just give an um an exhibit with all of the photographs that you had taken. Correct? >> That was um many of the photographs, not all. And you took photographs of the entire apartment. Correct? Correct. I think I got it this time. Here it comes. Can y'all see that? Yes, sir. That was actually one of the bedrooms. Correct. >> Correct. Was that the guest bedroom? I'm not sure if it's a guest bedroom. It's another It's a bedroom inside the residence. Yes. >> Okay. That was one of the photographs you took. Correct. Yes, sir. That was the uh sort of living room area in that apartment. Correct? Correct. Yes, sir. And right here on the table was the gun that had been cleared. Correct. Yes, sir. You photographed it after it had been cleared, but you didn't photograph it after the initial shooting. Correct. So, you wouldn't have known whether the slide was pulled back or or not pulled back. No, sir. It's photographed in the way it was found when I arrived. Would that have helped you in any way in your job to know that? As far as if it was cleared or if it was >> had been pulled back or anything. I mean, with them telling us it was cleared, it it's going to be pulled back and locked out. Okay. You also um photographed another weapon. Is that correct? Yes, sir. And as far as you knew, that was the weapon of the homeowners. Uh yes, sir. It was uh it was in the the other bedroom under the uh nightstand. Okay. And that was the weapon you photographed. Correct. Yes, sir. This was also um another view of that living area. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. And you took a photograph of that. Yes, sir. This is a This is the doorway. Is that where you came where they came in? Yes, sir. Okay. And you took a photograph of that and the doorway entered right into the kitchen area. Is that correct? Correct. There's kind of a small hallway straight into the kitchen. Okay. >> This would have been another photograph that you took of the living area from just a different angle. Correct. Yes, sir. Now, earlier when you testified about the the weapon, um is this where it was found? Yes, sir. That Yes, sir. That other one in the box. Mhm. And then again, when you all um photographed the weapons, you um a lot of times try to get the serial number, correct? Correct. Yes, sir. Okay. And in this in this particular case, you just photographed it as a Glock 42. That's just on that side. The serial number would have been uh either underneath or on the other side. And then again, these were just the vehicles uh in the parking lot outside that apartment. Correct. So, again, just so we're clear, um your job in this particular case was to do nothing other than photograph, take photographs. Yes, sir. Nothing else was done. You didn't interview any witnesses. You didn't talk to any witnesses. You didn't uh you weren't there that night. Correct. >> And all you can add other than today is that you took the photographs. Yes, sir. If I can have them there. If you could review those. Oh, excuse me. If I could have you review those. I guess you've reviewed them now, so I can move those in evidence. Give me a prediction. There's not. I I do want to take a look at them. One of them. That's for the report. Have you seen them? Okay. I'm wondering okay, cuz I still want to know what is the importance of the weapon being cleared versus it being slid forward to put a bullet in there. Because at that point, that was her reload, not her initial one where she already had shot the the pastor, all that stuff. So, I wonder if prosecution was going to say she also did intend on finishing off the wife. And the defense is trying to make it like she wasn't trying to also shoot the wife. But why did she reload, too? That's what I want to know. Why did you need a reload after you got It was a few bullets, I think, in the pastor at that point. So, I'm wondering about that. But I wonder why does the defense care that the second time when the gun got reloaded, there was not a bullet in the chamber? Because if they say her defense part of her defense is that she's suicidal, I could see another bullet being in there cuz she was going to take herself out. Or I don't know. Like what is I want to know why do they keep asking about where the slide was. No further questions. I don't know which set of these photos I'm going to speak to you. Um I've got photos of the crime scene and the crime scene um second set of pictures. Those are from the second set there. of crime scene photos. of state. I just have a couple of more questions. Yes. So, Detective Watson, I'm going to go back to this photograph that you took of the other firearm. And you said that it was found underneath the nightstand. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And as depicted here, it's in a box. Correct. Yes, ma'am. Okay. Excuse me. Before they keep going, okay, cuz Auntie Nettie said the defense is implying she's trying to off herself. I agree. While Cal said it would have been for herself, herself being the defendant. I agree. So, do you think the defense wants to prove that a bullet was in the gun? But the cops are trying to say there never was a bullet in the gun on the reload? Do you think that's what it is? Cuz are they arguing that it actually wasn't empty in the chamber? It was a bullet in the chamber? That's what I want to know. What What the defense rather there would have been a bullet in the chamber versus the cops saying the chamber was empty? And then we just cleared the gun, but there was no bullet already in the chamber on that on that on when they obtained the weapon. Um this week, if you could speak of Yes. Yeah. I can try to be specific. I'll repeat my question. So, the firearm that you previously talked about that was in the bedroom, it was underneath the nightstand, correct? >> Correct. Okay. And it was in a box, correct? >> Cor- correct. Okay. And is this the same firearm that was in that box underneath the nightstand? Yes, ma'am. Okay. From your view of it, is it loaded? At that point, I can't tell. Okay. What are the two items on the right side of the firearm? Magazines. Okay. So, they are not in the gun. They are not in the gun. No further questions, Ronald. All right. Re-cross? Okay. Um the reason I'm bringing up that we know she or at least the defense wants us to know she was suicidal is because in the defense's opening statement, they said in a prior relationship, she tried to kill herself. Then they're bringing up how she was I guess feeling that way again when she killed the victim. So, just in case uh anybody comes in and they didn't see day one, I'm not assuming that the defense has said. They focused on her being suicidal and stuff like that. Like she eventually was just going to take herself out, all this other stuff. Okay. And Auntie Nettie said exactly, Trini. So, they the defense seems to want a bullet to have been in the chamber. Okay. All right. And I don't think there's going to be any re-cross, but I'll hit play just to make sure. Uh just just briefly, Ronald. She just showed you a picture of that weapon with the clips on the side. Yes, sir. Uh when you got to the scene, you weren't you weren't sure whether they Well, you they could have been cleared, correct? The gun on the table? Yes. Yes, sir. And and the gun under the nightstand? Had not been cleared. >> It had not been cleared. No, sir. Okay. Um the other thing I wanted to show you was Does that recollect your refresh your recollection as to the bedroom? Yes, sir. And was that where that that weapon was found under the nightstand in the bedroom? Yes, sir. Okay. Ronald, if I could have this picture moved into evidence. We have a photo of the bedroom and it's exhibit 14. All right. And no further questions, Ronald. All right. All right. I think my last question going out, just, you know, in the ether, my last question going out is why is the defense pointing out the extra gun that was in the apartment? Cuz I think the the extra gun was in a gun case. There were magazines in the apartment, not the one she brought, but they were already there. keep asking about that. So, I'm I want to know why they keep asking about the second weapon. Um sometimes we won't know until they get to their closing arguments, but this is just where my curiosity is leading me right now. >> [cough and clears throat] >> Okay. So, we're ending with that witness, but next time we watch, there will be I think that might be the owner of the sporting goods store. I'm not sure. It just It just says it's Ray. I just all I can see is this Ray right now. Oh, let me see. Hold on. Yeah, that's all I can see. So, it'll be Ray, whoever Ray is, when we start back up. But we're going to end it there. And thank y'all for watching. We'll, you know, do refreshers throughout because different people will catch it in different parts. But I definitely appreciate y'all watching this part with me, and we will do more, probably not till next weekend at the earliest, because I'm supposed to be studying. Always studying. So, all right, y'all. But I will see y'all tomorrow morning if you choose to come for the body cam videos. And y'all have a great rest of your Saturday. All right. Bye. >> Okay, mic check, mic check. All right. Let me see here. I got a new um version for y'all for this song. So, let's get started. First, things first, I will be talking. It is a reaction type of thing and it's kind of interactive because I also look at the chat and I'll read their stuff sometimes too, but I will be talking. This is your warning, but all videos I discuss are already linked in the description box. Leave me a like if you go watch one of those videos. That's all I ask if you don't mind. Okay. So, let's see. We're going to play our I got a new version of our song, You're Going to Jail, uh King Trapp, and then also I've got to have a hard cut