y'all. Well, first of all, I'm trending at some point. Hey, I will be talking sometimes during these. If you saw the title and was like, I just want to see the video, it is linked in the description box because I don't take offense to that. That's fine. Um, for the the same person sent me two videos that had about the same title. So, I thought we were going to watch the video and then look at the update. But, it is two different women that have done this. So, we're going to start with the longer one first and then see how that goes. Then, we may watch the second video. Um, different woman doing about the same thing is what it looks like. But, I didn't watch these through. I just um skipped to the end on the second one thinking, "Oh, that's the sentencing for this woman." But no, there's two different women that did this crime. So, at different times, different years, everything. Trigger warning. I put you saw the title because the title is the trigger warning. It you know how in interrogation videos go. You know sometimes they'll show pictures. So if that happens, you've already been warned what the topic is. So I wouldn't be in here if that's not something you can handle. I I understand. Just want to make sure you're aware. And both of them are on EW Crime Story Time. Uh it's a great channel. I love the interrogation videos that they show. So, what we're watching is killer realizes she's been caught after cutting baby out of victim's stomach. So, here we go. >> That I was just one person. I had everybody just pick that up for me. No, >> you've been charged with the universal ping me. LET ME TELL you the Bible. You are a SORRY STOP. STOP. PLEASE. It's me. On April 13th, 2011, in a small town outside of Bowling Green, Kentucky, 33-year-old Kathy Koy found herself unexpectedly going into labor while driving and was forced to deliver her baby on the side of the road. She then rushed to her friend's house, Shelley Lindsay, where Shelley found Kathy dazed and covered in blood, clutching her newborn son. As Shelley rushed Kathy inside, a wave of panic washed over her. She was holding the newborn baby boy in her arms, but realized he was struggling to breathe. She wiped away the bubbles from his nose and mouth and called 911. >> 911 baby in her car here in my driveway. Come on, baby. Doing okay right now. She's shaking really bad. It's okay. They're coming. They're coming. They're coming. I need somebody now. >> Kathy had already decided to name her son Kaden. And soon she and the newborn were being raced to the hospital. However, once there, medical staff made a chilling and stomach turnurning discovery. Something was very, very wrong. Given baby Caden's shallow breathing and deteriorating state, medical staff had to deal with one emergency at a time and prioritize trying to save the infant's life. Kathy is promptly admitted into the labor and delivery unit while baby Kaden is rushed into intensive care where he's placed on oxygen. >> So, what was wrong with the baby? >> Um, he had respiratory problems. He was also very cold with an ice cube and that could make babies very sick. We call it cold stress. >> Cadence's doctor explains that his temperature was so low their equipment couldn't register it. But it's Kathy's examination that was most troubling. >> Her exam was totally normal. So normal that it appeared that she had not really had a baby. >> What the ultrasound show? >> Normal uterus. And the ultrasographer even came out and was quite upset cuz you know he's like this is not a grabbid uterus. She's not had a baby today. This was concerning, but the medical staff had discovered something even more horrific, prompting them to call the police. While in her hospital room, Kathy was texting updates to her husband, Shannon. However, the Kentucky State Police soon arrive and take her in for questioning. She is insistent that despite the gruesome discovery the medical staff made, she is Cadence's mother, and she even has an ultrasound to prove it. This ultrasound would come up later. Most of the following footage has never been seen before. Right away, the interview is off to a rocky start. Please note that Kathy is partially deaf. >> Please don't. >> I won't. >> Okay, if you're just coming in on the preview, they showed her screaming a lot, so you'll have to kind of guard your ears along the way cuz I again, it's my first time watching this, but Oh my god. >> Oh my goodness. That's why I got defensive. >> All right. Can we make a deal right now? Make a deal. >> Wait a minute. You're not going to threaten my kids no more. >> No. No more. Come here. Make a deal. Listen to me. But you can't be raising your voice either. Okay. >> Okay. But I want to hear too. >> Do Do you Let me just say this, Kathy. Do you understand? >> There's a lot of munches going on here. Okay. >> Yes, I do. And now now Jamie [ __ ] missing and I'm being blamed. Prior to walking into the interview, police executed a search warrant at Cathy's home. There, her other two children seem unusually eager to help as they comb through her belongings. Cathy's husband, Shannon, was not their biological father, but they thought of him as their father. Without understanding the implications, Cathy's children make a comment that unsettles the investigators. According to them, their mother had spent the day with a friend who also happened to be pregnant. While the name of the friend escapes them, they know with certainty it began with the letter J. As luck would have it, the kids have a way to find the name. Through their access to Cathy's Facebook account there, police find the name of 21-year-old Jamie Stice. When they reach out to Jaime, they can't get in contact with her. >> Because she was pregnant, she was dead at that house with Mike. In order to find Jaime and ensure that they aren't jumping to any horrible conclusions, police track down Jaime's mother, Jeanie. >> Have you talked to anybody that has seen your daughter since 9:30 this morning? >> Um, happy to. >> The fact that Jaime was heavily pregnant and now missing was a serious concern on its own. But given what the medical staff found, police knew that things could be dire. >> Let's start over cuz we're going to figure this out together. All right. >> Okay. And we got to start from the very beginning. When you woke up this morning, what time did you wake up? >> Kathy walks the detective through her day. She woke up early that morning and saw her husband Shannon off to work around 4:30 a.m. According to Kathy, close to 10:00 a.m. She left to meet up with Jeanie, Jaime's mother. She then claimed her plans were interrupted when she felt contractions. Before she knew it, she was in full-blown labor. Kathy tells authorities she then delivered Caden in an empty restaurant parking lot before rushing to her friend Shel's house for help. Shelley also spoke to police and she would turn out to be an important witness for the day's events. Okay, I was waiting cuz you know we don't know people's names yet. We're still getting into this. So I was like who was on the phone with 911 saying their friend was having a baby? So that was Shelly and Kathy's the one acting like she went in labor on the side of the road. Went to Shel's house pretending to go in labor and have that baby. So Shelly might not know that Kathy wasn't really uh having a baby possibly. We'll see cuz was was Kathy showing along the way since this is her friend, you know. And then um on some movie type Lifetime stuff, you know, they'll usually show like a woman that never could have kids and they go crazy. They take somebody's baby, which this woman Kathy has two kids. Or um what was the other one? If people are planning on taking a baby, they do the whole fake baby bump thing up until the 9 months. So I just wonder, was she even acting like she was pregnant? What? I don't I don't I mean obviously this is a crime I'll never understand but I don't even understand. I just want to know more. So that's where I am right now. I'm just thinking. I'm listening. But I had to know who made the 911 phone call cuz I was like well who called screaming about Kathy. So Kathy's not a victim. Kathy's the the killer. >> So I ran out to the yard and I looked in the passenger seat and I seen her with the baby and everything lay here between her legs. She had no pants, no underwear, just a shirt on. I told her, I said, "Stay right there. Don't move." I ran in the house. I grabbed my phone. I ran straight to the bathroom to get a towel. And by the time I got back in here, she was already in my house >> with the placenta and everything. Was everything connected to the baby's tail? >> Yes. She said, "Help me." I had dropped him and he had grass and stuff on him. So, I took him from her, wrapped him up in the towel, laid him over here on the counter sink, laid him over on his side, you know, was, you know, rubbing him, no, trying to get him breathing. But Shel's story differs from Cathy's in one curious way. >> She was telling the nurses at the hospital that I found out when I got to the hospital that I helped deliver that baby. I said, "No, ma'am." I took her nurse out in the hallway and I said, "I want to set the story straight." I had nothing to do with this delivery of this baby. This baby was born the time she showed up at my house. >> The discrepancy would prove very important and beg the question, if Cathy's delivery was legitimate, why fudge the details? Authorities also check in with first responders to see if they noticed anything strange that might point to an explanation. Despite the chaotic scene upon their arrival, they tell detectives there wasn't a sign of anything suspicious, at least not at first. >> What was her demeanor? Did she stand up or what was her >> She was sitting down the entire time like in the floor hollering, "Take care of my baby. Take care of my baby." You know, picking the pats out. She was gagging. She was acting like she's going to throw up. And I think she actually did throw up once. Whenever I come back in with the stretcher, we pulled it up there and when I turned around, she was already standing up walking toward the stretcher and she's like, "I'm fine." Once she was in the ambulance, she's making comments or anything. >> Yeah. She said the the reason why my baby is covered in grass and stuff is cuz I dropped it, baby. >> You got a conscience, don't you? >> Because you know when I was talking about right from wrong earlier, there's some people that just don't care. And there are other people. >> But I do care. You sitting there saying Jamie listen remember. Okay. All right. Listen to me. >> That's my point. You do care. That's why it's been tearing your stomach up, right? >> So, you're going to help me work through this, right? >> Okay. Okay. >> The detective returns to the matter at hand. The last time Kathy claims she saw Jamie. Kathy is adamant that it was when she picked up Jeanie at her house in order to take her to the social security office and drop her off. She claims that she wasn't sure if Jaime was planning on joining them. >> You were asking if Jamie was coming with them or was coming out or what? >> If Jamie would then come out >> and and go where? Why? Why were you asking where Jamie was going? >> Because Jamie wasn't even where I left with her mama. She was asleep on the couch. >> Jeanie told police a very different story. >> Was Kathy supposed to come back and pick you up? So, she >> was supposed to come pick me back up. told me told me that when when I got through to text her and she would come back and get me. Well, in the meantime, while I was there, she got Jamie. Evidently, brought Jamie back home because she started having contractions and going into labor. She went to the uh medical center. She's at the medical center now. >> Did you ever go back? Did you ever go back? >> I never went back inside the house. >> And you never went Did you ever see? >> I was inside the house that morning. >> But you never saw Jamie again? >> No. She was laying on the couch asleep when me and her mama left. While Kathy says that Jaime was asleep and didn't join her and Jeanie at the Social Security office, Jeanie disputes this claim, saying that Jaime had been with them. And Kathy had even driven Jaime back home while Jeanie stayed at the office. >> You said that Kathy brought Jamie back. >> Yeah. >> How do you know that? >> Because of this. >> I asked her. >> Let me ask you this. >> Yeah, that's Jamie. >> All right. >> That's J. Mhm. And she was 30 something weeks pregnant. So you've known Jenny and Jamie for a few months. >> And they became your friend on Facebook, >> right? They were having a hard time. They were getting evicted and everything and her car was running down. >> Were you helping her out or what? >> Trying to. Yeah. >> I just met Kathy about two weeks ago. She's supposed to be getting us help with housing through some kind of bibs organization or something. Kathy has just been caught in a lie, one of many. While Kathy told police that she knew Jeanie for a few months, Jeanie claims that they'd only been in contact for a few weeks. Even if they hadn't known each other long, Jeanie and Kathy exchanged frequent messages on Facebook over that short period of time. The Facebook messages showed that Kathy had set herself up as a support for Jeanie. She told Jeanie that she could help connect them with social services and allegedly claimed she was a representative of a mysterious organization that helped I don't know if I still have the video saved, but there's another one. It's a young black mom. Um, uh, the killer was a young black woman and they met through like a Facebook group of expecting moms and then apparently the one of them miscarried and so she went to the houses that she was just visiting cuz they were friends and like uh I think she shot the girl and took her baby or babies cuz I think it was twins. Um, but I'm just thinking about that cuz this is again somebody meeting on Facebook and then they in your life and then they trying to literally steal your life. Infants of families in need. As their conversations continued, Kathy and Jeanie discussed Cathy's pregnancy. Kathy wrote in one message that Shannon is getting excited and annoying. He rubs my belly saying come on, come on, like every 2 minutes. She also attempted to explain why she hadn't given birth yet. In one message, Jeanie asked Kathy to clarify her bizarre claim, writing, "So, he's in your back. Is that why you're not dilating?" Kathy replied, "Yep." In a series of messages from just 3 days before Jaime went missing, Kathy eerily tells Jeanie that we were designed to be found. We found each other. To which Jeanie answered, "Evidently, I'm glad we did." As chilling as this message would turn out to be, Jeanie couldn't have known that while Kathy was claiming to want to help her, she had something truly twisted planned. The other thing is she was approximately 35 or 36 weeks pregnant. Right. >> Okay. Well, >> I have no clue how I hold on to it. I didn't know she Here's the problem we got, Kathy. The baby that you brought to the hospital is about the same age. >> Okay. I was told it was 40 weeks. >> It's about 35 36 weeks just like Jamie's baby. >> Okay. I was told it was >> Okay. Okay. Now listen. Here's the other problem we got. Okay. So, you saw her today and she's been missing since about 10:30 this morning. Her baby is missing. Her family is worried about her. Can you imagine? >> I don't blame. >> HEY, CAN YEAH, I can imagine. >> Can you imagine? I'll be out I'll be out on the back streets and everything searching everything. >> Could you imagine if those kids right there you didn't know where they were? What happened to them? >> I turned the world upside down. >> Exactly. And that's what we're going to do. >> Me and Jenny so much alike. That's why I don't want >> Okay, I understand. But we got to find what happened to Jamie, too. Yeah, cuz she was at the house when I >> Is that baby that you brought to the hospital going to be Jamie? >> I have no clue. That's what I'm trying to tell you. >> How do you have no clue? How would this happen that you have no clue if it was Jamie's baby? What's it? >> She was there when I was Jamie. >> Though they move on, investigators have surely taken note of Cathy's slip up about not knowing if the baby she was claiming to be hers was actually Jaime's. Was Shannon real excited about you having a baby? >> What did he have to say about what >> was he real excited about you having that baby? Put a lot of pressure on you, didn't it? >> Yeah. >> Put a lot of pressure. >> You've been depressed, too. >> And then you had the miscarriage. >> I was waiting on it. Okay. Missing puzzle piece is she was pregnant at some time and had a miscarriage. I was waiting to see cuz I'm like, what? How do you just go stealing baby expecting people to think that's your baby? Okay. She had a miscarriage. >> How long How long has this been weighing on you? >> Cuz you don't want to lose him. >> Would you do about anything to keep him and your family together? >> As the detective mentions, Kathy previously claimed to have been pregnant but had suffered a miscarriage. After allegedly suffering from miscarriages in the past, Kathy was apparently at her breaking point. She feared her relationship with her husband Shannon couldn't survive another loss. Investigators spoke to Shannon themselves, and he paints a very different picture of their relationship. >> Have you and her been having problems? >> No. More than any other married couple. >> I mean, were you thinking about leaving or >> Kathy decided that faking her pregnancy was the best choice? While Kathy confesses to deceiving her husband, she says that she had help maintaining her lies. >> I always stop by Shell's house after I'm supposed to go to the doctor's appointment. She calls Channing unknowingly. I don't know if she knew the truth or not, but she never questioned it or anything, but I would just go in and I would tell her, you know, well, we need to call Shannon, tell him um this far along, you know, this is what the doctor said. And she would say that she's a nurse from Dr. the name's office and such and such and such and such and she called from a private number. Then I would just go home. >> When detectives ask Shel to explain herself, she admits to calling Shannon. >> So she had you act like the nurse and say we've changed the appointment date. >> Yes, that was it. I remember that once or twice. >> Okay. Why did you do that? >> She said that Shannon would be upset because uh at this time I still thought she was pregnant. I thought I knew her but evidently I don't. According to Shelly, she had no >> what now? I'm trying to figure out why Shelley said she she went ahead and lied for her friend. I'm going back from Dr. Ne's office and such and such and such and such and she called from a private number. Then I would just go home. >> When detectives ask Shel to explain herself, she admits to calling Shannon. >> So she had you act like the nurse say we've changed the appointment date? Yes, that was it. That once or twice. >> Okay. Why did you do that? >> She said that Shannon would be upset because uh at this time I still thought she was pregnant. I thought I knew her, but evidently I >> That's not an answer. Then if you're the friend and you don't know your friend's miscarried, you don't even know that she's trying to say, "I don't want to upset my husband yet because I don't want him to know I miscarried." So what other reason are you pretending to be a nurse if she didn't if if at the time you still thought she was pregnant? You didn't have any clue she miscarried. So why wouldn't she just actually have the nurse that she would have been going to her appointments for call him about an appointment if she missed her appointments? Why would he be upset about that? Because you just have a rescheduled appointment. So I don't understand his friend Shelly and how she was like, "Oh, that makes sense. Let me pretend to be a nurse." I'm not saying Shel was in on anything hurting anybody. I'm just talking right now about Shel's common sense. That's all I'm saying. >> I don't. >> According to Shel, she had no knowledge of Kathy ever faking a pregnancy and thought she was helping a friend keep her mother-in-law off Cathy's back. Police also spoke with Shannon's mother, Diana, and she had her own suspicions about Cathy's motives. >> And she told me that she was always jealous of me because Shannon's affection for me was his mother. >> Oh, yeah. No, I still I don't care if it's the mother-in-law that she was she was saying, "Please, friend, help me. I don't want the mother-in-law fussing about me missing appointments or appointments being rescheduled." Her friend is too long in the tooth to think, "hm, fine, friend. I'll impersonate a health care provider for you." No. No. >> Despite her attempts to fake her pregnancy, it seems that not everyone was convinced. As it turns out, Cathy's pregnancy was a hotly debated subject in her inner circle. According to one friend, Kathy appeared to be showing late in 2010, but seemed to be shrinking in the months since. Another admitted to doubts after Kathy repeatedly rescheduled planned C-sections. Diana, Shannon's mother, also had her doubts. >> What was your feeling, Homer? Be honest with >> she wasn't pregnant. >> You knew it all along? >> Well, I figured it. I didn't know for sure. >> To sell her lie, Kathy got her hands on an ultrasound photo. The version she showed police was identical to the one she showed her husband, Shannon. He believed he was looking at a photo of his growing baby, not realizing that he was actually looking at a stolen ultrasound photo, one that Kathy casually swiped from a friend at a party in October 2010. >> Shannon thought she was pregnant. >> I'm just gullible. He he actually felt something move in her belly. >> She could have done that. I mean, >> the detective is right. Kathy brought home a fetal heart monitor. Somehow, she convincingly faked a baby's heartbeat for Shannon. She also had him place his hands on her belly while she moved it, mimicking a baby kicking. As police would soon learn, this was only the beginning of what Kathy was capable of. Kathy knew that at some point lies and phone calls wouldn't cut it. Eventually, she'd need an actual baby, but no one could have imagined the lengths she would go to in order to make this happen. As a precaution, police requested to look through Jeanie's house for any sign of her daughter. And when they did, they were surprised to find Jeanie's boyfriend, Mike, hiding from officers in an upstairs bedroom. >> We're looking for your daughter, and you're hiding your boyfriend upstairs. >> Do you know where Jamie's at? >> When's the last time you saw her? >> Listen, we're going to take a ride. Come on. Finding the whole thing suspicious, police immediately separate Mike and Jeanie, then grill them for answers. >> You're going to have to explain something for me. Just explain to me why you lied about it. And I hope it's a good reason. >> Cuz uh he's in drug court. >> You realize this is serious, right? Let me tell you something. This is real serious. This is about as serious as it gets. Okay. Your daughter is real pregnant >> and missing. Let me let you know some other news. Kathy's not pregnant. >> Kathy's not pregnant. No. Now, you going to help us find your daughter? >> Kathy Cor is not pregnant. >> No. >> Outside, Jeanie's boyfriend also struggles to come to terms with the news. >> Here's a deal. >> Okay, explain to me if I got this wrong, cuz I'm I was in the chat. Are they saying that Jeanie, the mother of the victim, Jamie, that is on the screen right now, chose to lie about where her daughter was because her daughter's boyfriend could be in trouble cuz he's in drug court? Because I still would need to know where my daughter is. I don't care about your boyfriend. Like, so she's hindering an the mom of the victim is hindering an investigation. Your pregnant daughter is missing. They're showing up to your house because something is suspected to be seriously wrong. What? Tell me if I got that wrong. Did I come up at the wrong time? And that's not what the mom of the victim did because that's what it sounded like when I when I started paying attention. >> Kathy did not have a baby. >> What? >> Kathy has got somebody else's baby. You tracking with me? >> She didn't have no baby with her today. >> You ain't listening to me. Kathy did not have a baby. >> Okay. Jamie is missing. >> Hey, she's pregnant. >> Kathy did not have a baby. >> Oh my god. >> Do you see where I'm coming from here? >> Yes, sir. >> So, what I mean, what are we supposed to do? Nothing. Sit and wait. All the you hear about on TV, people stealing uh babies and all that. >> Yeah, surely not. >> Was that girl going to be able to give that baby the kind of life that baby deserved? >> The interrogators leave Kathy alone in the room, and her behavior takes a very strange turn. But this is only the start of her bizarre antics because things will really go off the rails soon. >> Can't believe you're missing. You've got to talk to me. You've got to call him. You've got to do something. Totally. Totally getting blamed for everything. >> If you're listening and can't see your screen, Kathy is in the interrogation room looking at a photo of the victim, Jamie, talking to the photo saying, "You need to call your mom. I don't know what's going on. You know, they're worried about you. She's looking at a photo of Jamie, knowing what she did to Jamie. But just for context, in case you can't look at your phone, >> taking no fall from nothing. We know good damn well you're okay. Or you believe I hurt you. I'm not capable of hurting any damn. You better call your mom. You better help me out here. I can't go down for this. J I got I've got to go home, too. Two, baby. You pick today all day just please call your mom so I can go home. Please. >> Kathy is growing desperate and things are about to get even stranger. >> Talking to Jamie. >> Talking to Jamie. >> Yeah, I know you're talking to Jamie. Yeah, >> there's been some new things that have come up and I'm going to tell you something. Okay. >> Okay. >> The evidence clearly shows that that's Jamie's baby and also the evidence clearly shows that you're the one that took that baby from Jamie. Okay. >> I didn't take that baby. >> Just listen to me for a second. Okay. I'm not >> um protect your ears. At some point she yells. Just saying that for people that came in after I gave the other warning. Uh but she yells, so the volume is going to be crazy eventually. I don't know what minute mark, but it's going to be crazy. >> I yell at you. You don't yell at me. Okay, >> let us fill us up for you. >> We also know that Jamie was in the car with you today and you picked Jamie up at her house. >> Listen, we got eyewitnesses that saw Jamie get in the car with you. >> No. >> Yes. Listen to me. We already know that. We've already confirmed that. And we're going to confirm that that's Jamie's baby through DNA. That baby couldn't have made it alive from Plano Road to Reedville Road up there in Butler County. It could have made it a lie. It was just born. >> You got to start being honest with us. And we know the truth. And the truth is coming out. >> She was. She was. >> But she's You keep saying she was she was alive and kid, but she's not anymore. She's not anymore. Honey, it still had the airways blocked. They had to clear the airways. Okay. That means that baby was just born. >> There's a very disturbing reason investigators have come to this conclusion. How long do you think we've been doing this? >> Look, I know I'm going down for this. I don't go to jail. Okay. >> You lied to us. You You planned this. >> No. How do we play? I go. It goes back to >> you. >> Because let's No. No. You I want you to look at that. I want you to look. >> I'M NOT HAUNTED BY HER. I know she's missing, but I HAVEN'T DONE A DAMN THING to her. >> You took her baby. You took her baby, did you? Look at her. Look at her. I'm looking at Jamie. She's a beautiful damn young girl. >> She's not here anymore. Now, where is she? Tell us where she's at and we and we're done. Tell us where she's at and we're done. >> I don't know what she's >> Kathy eventually told the detective a bizarre story to explain where the baby at the hospital came from. She claims that after the doctor told her that her own pregnancy was no longer viable, she was outside the office when a woman named Ashley saw her in distress. Kathy then stated that Ashley offered to sell her a baby for $550. >> Young lady, there is no way you've been riding around here and all of a sudden poof, here comes Ashley and poof, here comes a baby that does not >> Okay, so Kathy doesn't understand that modern medicine and modern technology exists because Kathy thought no one's going to do a DNA test. No one knows what a baby looks like when it's just uh been delivered. No one knows what a woman's uterus looks like, if she actually has or has not delivered a baby. Um, I can't remember what else, but Kathy is living in her own world and it sucks because Kathy has taken two lives. It sounds like Jamie the victim and then the baby didn't make it. >> We know what happened. We got eyewitnesses. We got Jaime's baby. Okay. It didn't magically appear in your arm, sweetheart. >> You know what? You probably think that you paid for this baby. >> No, I've been given money. >> I know you've been given them money. So, in your mind, sure, you've paid for this baby. >> That's a good catch because they always tell little truth with the lies. So, although this woman that said, "Oh, I'll give if you give me $550, I'll give you a baby." Does not exist. She does feel like because she helped Jeanie and Jamie out that she paid for the baby. And you could give this baby a better life than she could, right? Because you know why? We give you a better life because it's the life you wanted and you were desperate. >> Y'all want me to tell you what game is? >> Yes. >> I don't know. >> See, there you go. >> You're trying to make me be a royal coldarted. >> Oh, no. No. Listen. Listen. There's no reason to get mad here because the only person been lying in this whole thing was you. Who did something wrong today? >> I bought a baby. I did something wrong. You didn't just buy baby. >> You didn't buy. You arranged for the baby to be taken from her. >> I did not. >> I'm a proinating liar. >> Huh? >> I'm a proinating liar. >> Is that it? >> So, I've been told a thousand times. >> You've been told that you're a liar. >> I'm a proin liar. >> Okay. So, now that we got that on the table, we need to know where she's at. Why do YOU KEEP MOVING? >> STOP pushing that towards me. >> Why? >> No. Ashley's starting to get pissed off. OKAY. IT STOP BOTHERING ME. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE THINKING? IT BOTHERS ME. SHE'S MISSING. >> I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE'S AT. >> While Kathy admits to being a liar, she'll soon take this sentiment to a truly bizarre and shocking place. >> Kathy's ex-stepfather, Ron, claims he was also a witness to some of Cathy's shocking behavior. >> I don't want that girl back in my house. Do I believe that Kathy was capable of killing somebody? Yes, >> you do believe. >> Definitely. >> My personal opinion, if she gets her way, she don't care who she hurts. I said, "One of these days, you're going to do something and you're gonna be in jail for life." >> Investigators uncovered even more about Cathy's troubling behavior. At one point, according to police reports, she was even accused of stalking a pregnant teacher from her son's elementary school. The teacher felt so uneasy around Kathy, she began keeping a journal of strange incidents, including a time when Kathy lingered in the doorway, watching her as she worked alone inside her classroom. Interestingly, Kathy also claimed to be pregnant at the same time as this particular teacher. And when the teacher suffered from a miscarriage, so did Kathy. Back in interrogation, Kathy is about to slip up and make a huge mistake. >> Y'all are trying to pin a murder on me. You're trying murder. Who said murder? >> Kathy, who said murder? >> You think J is saying she's dead? >> I don't know. >> THIS DAMN THING. YOU CAN'T erase it. She said she was You said she was still kicking. >> Yep. >> That was your exact word. She was >> when I got >> WHERE DID YOU LEAVE HER? >> NO. HUH? >> Where did you leave her? >> You're not paying the >> Where did you leave her? >> If you want me to keep talking and give you all back the up now. >> Calm down. Yeah. >> No. >> Relax. Listen to me. Listen to me. Shut the ass. Thank you, >> Kathy. Listen to me. >> Now I'm Who's you? Listen to me. >> Who's Is that the rage you use with Is that the Listen You want ME TO KEEP TALKING? >> IS THAT what you shut up? >> Okay. Are you going to talk? Are you going to talk? >> Y'all got her to shut up. >> One. >> Did you tell her to shut up? What are you going to do, honey? >> Three. Stay. I'll quit talking. >> Well, are you going to tell us the truth? >> Shut up. >> Are you going to tell us the truth? >> You're trying to piss a goddamn murder. You said that you hold on. >> Are you going to TELL US? >> I TOLD YOU. I SAID SHE WAS A LOT AIN'T KICKING WITHOUT THAT CO. >> Left her where? Where'd you leave her? >> I told you at the goddamn apartment, but she was with Ashley. >> No. Now see, now it's different now. >> I don't know what she >> The detectives jump on Cathy's slip up for one very good reason. The disturbing discovery the medical staff made at the hospital. The one that prompted them to call the police. Dr. Sarah Mangold explained one of several horrific things they uncovered when Kathy came to the hospital. >> I left the room and then um went and looked at the placenta and that's when I noticed that the placenta had a uterus tubes and ovaries attached to it. When people deliver only the placenta comes out. All the other stuff remains intact. So >> when you seen that, what did you think? >> Jesus Christ. I'm sorry. What? Oh my god. And I think, we'll see if they say it again, but I feel like this is the one cuz, you know, she's pretending to give labor. I think this is the one where they worded it that she stuffed the victim's, you know, inner things into herself. Oh, she is disgusting, deranged, and EW usually tells if they got time and if they were found guilty and stuff at the end, but this is wild. Uh, it had to come from somebody else. >> Dr. Mangold also noted cuts to the vital organs, which made them suspect the unthinkable. The baby had been cut from his mother's body along with her uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries. But something like this wouldn't only put a mother in danger. Whoever did it would need to work fast to make sure the baby could even survive. If the mother was deceased, how long do you think it would take before the baby would have suffered or been in trouble? >> If a mom codes and cardiac arrest and you do a C-section, you've got 5 minutes from the time of the cardiac arrest to get the baby out. >> According to Dr. Mangold, disruption of the mother's heartbeat would cause vital blood flow to the baby to cease, blocking its oxygen supply. >> How long would it take somebody untrained though to make that cut and get that out, would you say? >> Yeah. cutting across like that. I mean, she's mimicking a C-section. I would think it would be hard to get it out. >> As disturbing as this information was, it was only the beginning of the alarming reveals. >> Before they get to more alarming reveals than that, Lord. And this is what Okay, this is a woman that supposedly she miscarried. She befriended someone on Facebook to get close to them to eventually take the baby and she came, okay, none of this is right, but I'm just saying for someone that's supposed to be planning on lying this long, she came with a box cutter and she also didn't even research getting a baby out where the elite the baby will survive. And you know what I'm saying? Like it's just everybody's life is lost for no reason. Um cuz I I feel like at the beginning at least, unless the detectives just telling her that to see if she'll talk, he said the baby didn't make it either. Um but it's like just bad lying, bad planning, bad motive, obviously bad execution. How does she and and and so the two children she already has is not by her current husband. So I'm guessing she was desperate to give him a baby that they had together. But that doesn't make sense now because you're taking a baby that he didn't make. So, what what is the point of passing off another baby anyway? It's still not his DNA. It doesn't matter. Um, so many questions. And she she she has convinced herself of some things uh a little bit, I think. But obviously, I know she knows what she did was wrong, but I feel like she's repeated some lies to herself to get herself to believe certain things. Just like they say some women can convince themselves they're pregnant to the point that they actually have pregnancy symptoms and there's no baby at all ever that was in their body. So, I just think that there's a few things going on. >> Take me down for that goddamn chick. >> Take you down? What do you mean? What if we try to get you help? >> Like you keep screaming. What if we try TO GET YOU HELP? I'LL BOW down and I'll kick you back and Okay, because I know I need it. Okay, >> you do need it. So, let us help you now. >> NOW, LISTEN TO ME. I KNOW I NEED HELP. I DIDN'T BE A PSYCHIATRIC. I know that. >> Okay, then tell us crazy. I'm goddamn depressed. I have a tipper. >> Kathy makes sure to say that she knows she should be in a psychiatric ward, perhaps setting herself up for a story she's concocting. And as you'll soon see, things will take a shocking turn where this claim is concerned. >> I don't know where Jamie is. You're getting frustrated with me. I think Okay, you're getting frustrated with me. I know all the damn times. Okay, >> listen to me now. I'm worried. And I have a >> I want to get you help, but until you come completely clean with us, I can't get you help. >> It may not have been murder. Was it an accident? Did it accidentally happen? Did it accidentally go too far? >> Not my [ __ ] Yeah, I'm being just as evil as I can on this. Not my I will try to y'all try to take my kids from me. >> Nobody's talking about your kids anymore. Nobody is >> try to pur on me. wants me to be dead. >> Murder, you keep saying murder. >> Y'all keep saying she's dead. >> Y'all don't deny what y'all been telling me because I'm not denying what I told her. >> We're asking. We're asking. We don't know what happened to her. ALL WE KNOW. >> YOU SAYING I WAS ASKING with her. >> You were. >> Okay. That y'all can verify this. >> Mean you're going to have to verify you. I'm >> chucking your game head at me. >> You say that one more time to me and I promise you. I promise you. What? >> Things are going to change. You walk in the hospital up there with her baby in your arms and when you walk in there with a baby in her arms, she's got all the inside parts that belong to Jamie. Okay, they're there. I mean, there ain't no denying it. >> Now that she's been confronted, Kathy's story will take a turn for the truly bizarre and unbelievable. >> Okay, before they go on, that means it was a different woman that I saw that put another woman's insides inside of herself. Unfortunately, it has actually happened, but it's not this one. >> Y'all are paying me for stupid. You know what? I've been doing good. I've been acting so well that I had them fool. I had everybody fool that I was just one person, but that I had a temper pen. I had everybody fooled. >> Yeah, except for me. >> This appears to be Cathy's attempt to act as though she has another personality. Ashley. And the attempt is strange to say the least. >> Y'all keep asking me and I don't care. >> I know you don't care, but Kathy does. Tell us for Kathy. Kathy don't know what I want to know. >> No, I do. >> I know you do. >> But who's going there for? >> Both of you. >> Hell, I know where to go. >> Both of you. If you care about Kathy and you want to see her get some help. Listen, if you care about Kathy, >> he's the deaf one. >> About half. >> I DON'T CARE. HEY, >> I DIDN'T ask you if she cared, but Kathy does. >> Please >> tell us where Kathy putter. >> Isn't that how she knows? >> Kathy's Kathy's one going down. Ain't that what you said? >> Did you hate me? I don't give a >> I don't hate you. >> I I DON'T GIVE A SEE, the thing about me, I don't care who I picked off. Her damn little one is. Yeah, she need Okay, I'm talking. Thank you very very much. Let me ask you a question. >> Shut up. >> LET ME ASK YOU. NO, shut up. Shut up. Let me finish what I'm saying and then you can talk. Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Now, she cares what her husband thinks. She can't do without them. Okay. So, THEY FIGHT ALL THE DAMN TIME. OKAY. The kids are smart. >> Y. >> Yep. We're going to leave again. >> NO, I'M NOT DONE TALKING. I WAS ACTUALLY TRYING. Y'all still pissing me off. They said she started snacking 41 seconds after the detectives left the room. Not seconds. That's what the That's what the uploader put. They pointed that out. That this woman is crazy. I I hopefully she doesn't scream again. But that was the one they showed in the preview. I was like, "Guard your ears >> right now. You want somebody to talk to who do you want to talk to right now? It can't be your kids until you tell us the full truth." >> I'm telling them. >> Who? >> I'm telling you the truth. >> Who? Who? Yes, I am. >> All right, hang tight. I'll be right back with you. Okay. >> Cathy's own children would reveal a chilling story about what their mother was capable of. This incident took place just two weeks earlier when she was at a local market with her two children. Did you go with her to the flea market a couple weeks ago? >> Yes. She bought a stun gun from the flea market, saying she was going to play around and use my dad. >> According to the vendor who sold Kathy this stun gun, it was more than capable of incapacitating someone if it made direct contact with skin. Allegedly, while at the market, Kathy approached a former neighbor and wielding the stun gun, she lunged at the man jokingly. When he didn't move, she went for him again. this time pressing the stun gun into his leg and jolting him with electricity before laughing it off. This stun gun would come up again in the most disturbing way. When another officer comes in to speak with Kathy, she elaborates on her horrific plan to fake her pregnancy. when the baby was born in order to take the placenta and stuff out to where it would be attached to the umbilical cord where I could put it up in me to pass the the baby off as mom. So I just took Kaden and what I presume to be the placenda with me but honestly I did think something was wrong because that plac be small enough for me to fit back up inside me to play it off as a no. You might find a couple blood droplets from me in my seat because when I was parked at the barbecue joint, I did try to straight myself to make it look like I g. Okay. Hen was in my floorboard and my car and as I headed towards Cherry's house, I put the piece up, put my brushes down, that on that thing. >> You sat on all the >> not the baby the right the placenta. Kathy's violent tendencies left her own mother in fear of what she was capable of. >> I believe she's psychotic and right now I believe the girl possessed because no human being could do what she did. >> The officers bring in someone new and try a different approach. Not only does Kathy calm down for now, but she elaborates more on her claim to have multiple personalities. I DIED. I'M TELLING you the truth. >> All right, Kathy, you're the one I want to talk to. >> Why do y'all keep saying calling me Kathy? I keep trying to make [ __ ] >> No, I just wanted I come here and talk to you, man. If she already had multiple personality disorder, those personalities, cuz that is it is the thing. Those personalities would have shown up to her husband, her kids, her mama. like that don't just happen now that you're in interrogation room. So unless they talk about a history of like she literally disassociates and she literally has you know um where there's different I'm going to say people but you know what I mean like I don't well I'm going say personalities in her head that would have manifested well before she did this. See, she she does need uh some mental health care, but she is also just laying it on thicker. Like, she knows right from wrong. She knows right from wrong. She might have some urges apparently she can't control possibly, but I feel like I don't know what they're going to say at the end, but they she needs to be tried as a capable adult. Like um not where they not the one where they say you can't stand for trial. needs to be tried and then also be treated, but she needs the the sentencing of whatever happens when you do a crime like this. And she can also be treated because no, she knows. That's why it's all the lying and stuff, too. And all of a sudden, here comes the personality ain't named Kathy. All of a sudden, if her parents and her husband and her kids ain't said that she ever showed that, that's just lying. >> I've got your car out there. Okay. Got your Toyota out there. >> My Toyota. >> Yeah. And it's got Jamie's blood all in it. Okay. >> Hey, from the pretend there. >> Well, listen to me. I've got her bloody fingerprints on it. Also, >> at this point, bloody fingerprints are the least of Cathy's concerns. Detectives can't wait to see how Kathy will try to explain away all the damning evidence they've been holding on to. >> When you brought that little baby to Miss Lindsay's house, I >> It's okay. When you brought When you brought that little baby into Miss Lindsay's house, >> can I come? >> Yeah. >> Do you believe me if I told you? >> I'll try. >> Ashley's what? >> Ashley's not a person. No. Don't make me don't >> Don't what? >> Don't make me mad. >> Don't make you mad. I don't want to make you mad. >> You don't think I'm so crazy? >> Listen to me. I promise you I'm not going to make you mad. >> I belong in a second. I promise I do, but I don't belong in jail. >> How do you know that? >> You promise not? >> No. Just me and you. Ashley, what? >> Inside you. >> Ashley's inside you. >> She comes out. >> She comes out when you get mad. >> I think I did it. I didn't do it. Ashley did. >> How did she do it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. She's in you. It's in here. It's in here. >> I've been called by >> Okay. But my family, everybody notices that I have like >> This is what pisses me off too. For the people that actually suffer from uh being bipolar, having multiple personality disorder, um from being schizophrenic, they these people that be putting their crimes off on what they did and blaming it on the mental illness puts the stigma on people that actually have mental illnesses. And they're not violent like that. like it's that's not a norm. That's a rarity. And she's just increasing the stigma of if someone says they have this now you think that they're a violent person. They can't control their their violent tendencies. And that's not even how most of it ever is. Like so she's pissing me off with that too. >> When you have split personalities, you can remember, you can know what the other one knows. You cannot stop her. >> I can't. The right medication can stop her. Honey, >> when she do I I have feels almost like a blackout. I don't know. I can be driving that road and not remember how I got from one place to the other place. I would be sitting there talking to my kids and then all of a sudden they're gone. I'm like, "Well, why did you walk off my hand?" >> You know why? She's trying to keep you from telling them. >> We already know you killed her. We're just trying to figure out paid for it, right? >> Not necessarily. No. >> Sitting there trying to say that I know everything that I did this, I did that. I want to go home to my kids. >> I know you do. Though Kathy had lied to Shannon in her attempt to fake her pregnancy, investigators were disturbed to find out that she hadn't lied to everyone in her life. When speaking with police, Kathy's daughter revealed an alarming twist. >> Did she ever talk about being pregnant to you or about losing the baby >> about the miscarriage? >> She said she had lost the baby and that um she was thinking about having a baby. She asked me for help and I said definitely not. Then she said she was just playing around. She said she told me that because she said she trusted me and stuff and that not to tell my dad. >> What kind of help did she want you to do? >> Um I think she said kind of knock a person out and then kind of take a baby. >> And Kathy didn't only try to enlist the help of her daughter in her sick scheme. She also asked her son. >> She said just hypothetically if I was to need want to commit a crime would you help me? And I asked her, I said, "What kind of crime?" She said, "Theft. If I was to rob something, would you help me?" I said, "Probably not. That don't mean I'd turn you in. I probably would, but because you're my mother, I would hesitate." She said, "All right. Well, what about murder?" Now, I told her, I said, "Absolutely not. I would never help you with something like that." >> Put you put me in prison. >> Why would I put you in prison? Huh? >> Because what about Jane? >> If you thought this story was already shocking, what happens next is completely bizarre. She went the gas station >> around the gas station. It's okay. >> Hold on. Hold on. She's trying. >> It's coming. >> She's trying. >> She's trying because you're coming clean, sweet. >> Please don't. Please don't. Please don't. Please don't. >> If this woman is faking like she is now a psychic or someone channeling a person that passed away, a medium or whatever. She is trying everything in the book right now. She is She is literally just trying everything and thinking she about to fool somebody. >> Please don't back away. Back away. Back away. BACK AWAY. BACK AWAY. BACK AWAY. You can do this. You can do it, sweetie. Fight through it. You're stronger than she is. >> After several interviews, many people in Cathy's life say the same thing. She had no history of going by other names, nor did she show any signs of multiple personalities. However, one person close to her would eventually share a different opinion about this. You did it. You did it. You happy now? She's begging. She begging you. Don't wear me out. She >> Yeah. >> She know she's going down, but she's not going to tell me. >> There's nothing to go down for. >> Is this the other personality speaking again? Personality speaking again. Is that what this is? Cuz now she's speaking in third person. Oh, hey. >> Hello. Did you call? >> As bizarre as all of this is, Kathy is attempting to distract detectives from the heart of the matter. What happened to Jamie? The truth of what Kathy did is even more disturbing than her bizarre outbursts. >> Let me tell you something. I know how to kill. >> I know. >> Pick that up. >> Before you hurt yourself. >> No. >> Yes. >> Before you HURT YOURSELF. PICK THAT UP FOR ME. >> NO. Talk nice to me and I'll help you. Talk nice to me and I'll talk nice to you and I'll >> I'll throw it at you if I pick it up. >> Okay. >> You ever been charged with this? >> I might. >> How many detectives have they sent to talk to her in this one session? Cuz I see the c the shirts are changing. I feel like he might be unless he was in there before. I feel like he is number four cuz there was two in there before. way totally different personalities from how he's responded to her. And then there was the one that we just saw in the blue shirt and now him. >> There's one more charge. >> I don't give a >> I just think you're very smart to know who I am. >> I understand you. >> You're the first. >> No, everybody. Oh, has pumpk me listen. >> But you act like I give a >> I ain't saying give I'm listen I'm You're trying to talk about this, ain't you? And let me go pee. >> Tell me where she's at. I'm go pee. >> Nope. I have a pee and I don't piss on myself. I don't care. Pick it up. >> What did I get for picking it up? Talk to me about Jamie Sty right there. Tell me where she's at. Then we'll talk about whatever you want to. >> She could be here. She could be there. >> But where is she? You know. >> Yeah, I do know. >> You do know. >> Does it matter? >> Hm. >> Does it matter? It doesn't me. >> Are you gonna cry? >> Are you going to cry? >> No, but her mama's crying. >> You're right. You're way happy you figured it out, aren't you? >> You just one coffee. You're smart. I'll give you that. You're smart. >> I ain't that smart. >> If I don't tell you that, you can't do a damn thing to me. >> It's done done, baby. It's done done. >> You can't do anything. >> I don't need to find her. The only reason I want to find her is for her mama. >> Can you prove she's dead? >> Most definitely. No, you cannot. >> Most definitely. >> No, you cannot. >> Yeah, I can. >> No, you cannot. >> Do you think you can cut the whole inards out of somebody and then not die? I mean, think about it. You had her uterus, you had her ovaries, you had her fallopian tubes. Do you think somebody can survive with her abdomen split wide open with all that? >> And they said some of her vital organs were were a piece of them were attached to that as well because she, you know, she's not a surgeon. She just cutting stuff >> internal. Cut out. I mean, really? Or you? You're smarter than that. >> She did. >> You're smarter than for about 5 minutes. >> Yeah. >> For about 5 minutes. >> She lasted longer. >> How long she last? >> A little better. >> Maybe 10 minutes. But you know when they're just sitting there flopping like that, that ain't life. All that is is just nerves. That gasping prayer, that gurgling sound that you heard, that bubble she was blowing out of her nose and her mouth. >> She never blew any bubbles out of her nose. She never blew no bubbles out of her mouth. and all that blood that came. >> So, she just it Okay. I don't know if she meant to, but that sounded like you you did see her last moments to see what she did do before she passed away cuz she didn't deny her body was flopping around. You know what I mean? She But she denied she never had bubbles blowing bubbles and all that stuff. So she kind she's admitting I saw her in her last moments because why are you specifying that part about what he said that she could be doing when she dies? >> Came out. >> She didn't bleed a lot either. >> Oh yeah, there's a lot of blood in that car. >> Due to the precision of the cuts on the vital organs and Cathy's choice to keep the umbilical cord and placenta intact. The medical team agreed. This wasn't likely done without significant research and forethought. >> Did you cut her across or did you cut her up and down? She was in the little car when I did it. >> I know she wasn't. >> The the blood in the car >> is from the baby. >> I don't care what y'all know about personality. Guess what? I know how to block. >> I'm done with you. >> You don't cry. >> I ain't going to cry for you. I ain't going to cry for you in bed. >> No, I don't give a >> I know you don't. You got anything else? >> I don't care. >> You got anything else to say for me? >> What are you going to do? What are you going to do? You going to cry? You look like you were about to cry. >> You got anything else to say to me? >> You know who's going to go down? >> Ashley, you got anything else to say to me? >> Who? Who? >> Ashley, who >> you going to tell me? >> No. >> No. >> No. Okay. >> My opponent. >> Okay. Good question. Okay. So, who is this? Hold on. Ann said, "I just joined. Was the lady the victim Jamie drugged? How was she able to subdue her? This woman went and bought a stun gun from a flea market that she then used on her neighbor that happened to be there. She like jked him once, he didn't move. She did it again and actually stunned him in the leg. Um, but yeah, she bought a stun gun to uh incapacitate the victim. And as she gloats in the corner, authorities offer her one last chance to come clean. And despite all the self assuredness she has now, she really won't like what's coming next. >> You know how you said we can't do nothing? Probably can't do nothing without the body. This man right here is fixing to bring a citation in here for you for capital murder and kidnapping of this child and for this lady right here. >> Who's falling for it? Who's going there? >> You are. >> No, I'm not. So, in order for you to help yourself right now, Ashley, he's going to charge you one figure that you blame Kathy the whole time. She knows about everything. >> But you know what? He's going to be the one put you in prison. He's going to be the one charge you. >> You know what's funny about it? >> You chose me. You chose me. You chose me. >> Oh, you >> Oh, you're done. We can say bye-bye to your kids and everything else. Bye-bye to your kids and everything else. You're done. >> YEP. >> You want to cooperate with us? You want TO TELL US WHERE YOU WANT to tell us where Jamie's at? Please, PLEASE. I swear I will. >> You're done. You're done. Have a seat. >> Oh, Kathy thought it was sweet out here. So Kathy thought because they can't find a body, I'm going home today. And then also in Kathy's mind, y'all can't prove I did this. So I'm going home today. or you're supposed to take me to a psych war because I said this is my other personality Ashley talking to you right now. Girl, >> have a seat. Get her done with you. You're done. We're done playing Let me tell you the Let me Let me tell you the bottom line. Let me tell you the bottom line here. Give me a second. Let me tell you the bottom line. You are a SORRY PRISON. You're going TO PRISON. I DON'T GIVE A >> COME ON. ON ME. >> YOU'RE GOING TO BREAK MY I BROKE MY YOU BETTER NOT. >> This always gets me when someone hurts or kills somebody and then they just get roughed up a little bit to get handcuffs on them and it's out of my wrist. What do you think Jamie was thinking when you had stunned her with that stun gun and used a box cutter to cut her open to get her baby and her organs? Like, nobody cares about your wrist. >> You going to cop right now? >> IT'S STOP. STOP. PLEASE. PLEASE. It's me. It's please stop. >> It's over. >> It's over. It's noteworthy that Kathy appears to have no trouble reverting from her alter ego back to Kathy as soon as it's convenient. >> Yep. Come on, narrator. Come on. It's real convenient. Yeah, I agree. >> Tell you what, when we find Jamie, you'd better pray to God that she's alive. >> Upon Cathy's arrest, she finally agrees to direct police to the crime scene during a ride along. It's then that she finally reveals the horrible truth about what happened to Jamie Stice. >> They don't believe me, do they? You don't want to see what's out there. >> I've seen a lot worse, sweetie. I've done this for 20 years. I've seen a lot worse. >> She's dead. >> She She's dead. I figured she was. >> Later, police learned that while wearing a trench coat and a possible disguise, Kathy attempted to gain access to a local hospital nursery. She solicited hospital staff for the access code as she pretended to be visiting a friend. After this failed, she targeted Jaime. Given her history of stalking pregnant women, perhaps Kathy had plans like these with others. And by the time she reached Jaime, she'd simply had enough experience to perfectly hone her twisted scheme. >> What else is in the woods? >> You don't find a whole lot of blood. And she's been cut up really bad. >> Okay. >> There's a ta. >> They're what? A taser. >> A taser. >> Immobilized her. >> Oh, you had tased her. I see. Where did you taser at? >> On the neck. I don't want to know what what how bad it is back here. I don't want I don't want to go down there. Please, please, please, please. I'll tell you what you want. Everything. She been cut on the neck. >> What did you use to cut her with? >> Are you >> How did you learn how to cut the baby out? Did you look anything up on the internet on how to do this or anything like that? >> Yeah, one time on how to do a home >> home C-section. >> She's going to need to come out. You're getting too cold. Please don't. >> You know what's going to happen when she comes out, don't you? >> Please don't let her come out. >> It's up to you, huh? Please, I'll get hurt. Please don't let her come out. Please begging you. I'm begging you. I'm begging. I'm trying to fight. Please don't. >> Man, this is going to be bad. Hey, she said she's cut up real bad. >> Yeah, not just on her stomach either. >> How'd she feel? >> She tased her, dude. She tased her and then cut her neck. >> Not long after they arrive, police find Jaime's body near a wooded area. She's found face down, partially clothed, and disembowled with a massive laceration across her abdomen. Her throat and wrists were also cut. Her cause of death was ruled as multiple sharp force injuries, including those responsible for the removal of her uterus. But according to the doctor who treated the baby, the horrors only continue. Because the baby was still alive, it's unlikely that Jaime died from her injuries right away. >> She must have died when she was still alive, otherwise the baby wouldn't have made it. >> And why do you say that? >> Because if you kill the mom, then babies can't tolerate you inside. Like what we do is we call like a postmortem emergency section. I mean most of the babies don't make it. So even a few minutes with mom being dead, the babies don't make it. >> Kathy was charged with murder. Following this, Kathy's children were given handwritten notes from her full of halftruths about the incident and were later sent to foster care. Her husband Shannon has since remarried. Whether >> Wow. Okay. Okay. I knew she was going to get charged with murder. The other two kids are in foster care. She her mom is still alive. That's not his kids. And I guess I mean he wasn't obligated. I guess he didn't adopt them. Wow. >> Whether or not Kathy was ever pregnant in the first place remains a mystery. We spoke to Brianna, Cathy's daughter, in an EW exclusive interview. She'd been 11 at the time of the crime. She gave us some insight into how Kathy behaved the day she killed Jamie Stice. >> She acted completely normal before the incident, but her acting normal prior to what happened definitely did throw me off because when I found out what happened, I was shocked cuz she did not act like anything was up in what way whatsoever. Then we got told about what had happened and it was like everything broke loose. Um the first time in a long time that I saw my stepdad you know he was crying but not in that way of you know losing her but mostly that how could I have not seen what had happened that I noticed that it was fake tears. He was not really upset. Um, he looked like he was relieved from her in a way. >> Brianna also had some thoughts about her mother's claim to have multiple personalities. >> Well, I see. I'm definitely seeing how he he let them kids go to foster care. If he's crying from relief that he's finally he don't want no attachment to her. >> She's not an actress or an actor. Um, I do believe that she has a multiple personality disorder and I've seen that exact type of behavior throughout my entire childhood of where she does not refer herself as Kathy or my mom, she refers herself as somebody else. >> Notably, Brianna says that the name she referred to herself as wasn't Ashley. >> One moment, she would refer herself as Cat. Kathy Koy was convicted of murder as well as two count. >> Kathy would sometimes refer to herself as cat. Was there another name that she used? Because that's a nickname. >> Of kidnapping, one for an adult and one for a minor. In 2011, she was sentenced to life without the possibility of parole for her crimes. Against all odds, the infant Kathy mercilessly ripped from his mother survived. He was named Isaiah Reynolds with his middle name as Stice in honor of Jaime's last name. He now lives with his father and sees Jaime's family regularly. >> Okay. So, I'm sorry if I said it out loud before. I thought he's the Well, the detective said it. He again, he must have just said that to Kathy to get her to confess cuz he said the baby's not making any noises cuz it's dead. But he, you know, lying for interrogation reasons, you know, they can. So that's where I got that from. But I'm glad the baby did make it. I am I am very happy about that. This one that I thought was a followup is a separate one. So this is the last one. Similar title. I don't I didn't watch it, so I don't know. But it says, "Fake mom walks into hospital with baby ripped from victim's stomach." So, this is a a different one. Same trigger warning. >> Help. Help. Please. I'm downstairs. >> Okay. Who caught you? >> This girl. I was ready for gas. I'm pregnant. >> How far along are you? >> My stomach. >> Can you grab a towel or anything you can get in your hands and put it on your wound and press? >> I'm breathing out. On March 18th, 2015, two pregnant women meet in a Colorado apartment after connecting through a Craigslist ad for maternity clothes. But the encounter turns into a savage ambush, resulting in bloodshed and violence. >> Did you have a C-section today or? >> No, she just came out. >> Is there a probability that the baby won't match you? >> No, she's blind. >> The following is based on official police records, and most of the footage has never been seen before until now. At 2:30 p.m., Longmont 911 dispatchers receive a call from a woman struggling to remain conscious. >> Green, please. >> I can't I can't understand the street. >> Green, please. >> Green, please. Green like the color. >> Yeah. >> Tell me what happened. >> She cut me. >> Who cut you? >> Downstairs. I don't know. >> Okay, hold on. >> Who responded to you? >> Hang on. >> Hold on. >> Please, I'm downstairs. >> Okay. Who cut you? >> This girl I responded. She was ready for death. >> What did she cut you with? >> Nice. I'm pregnant. She got me in my stomach. >> I'm afraid >> she cut you in your stomach. >> I'm pregnant. >> What is the suspect's name? >> I don't remember. I'm bleeding out. >> I know. You need to stay on the phone with me. Okay. I'm getting everybody to you. Okay. >> With first responders on their way, the dispatcher tries desperately to keep her talking and collect vital information. >> I need you to get Can you grab a towel or anything you can get in your hands and put it on your wound and press? How far along are you? >> Seven months. >> 7 months. Okay. Are you alone in the house? >> I don't know. >> You stay with me. Don't go to sleep. You stay with me. You're downstairs in the basement. >> And are you alone? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Don't Don't you go to sleep. Okay. You stay on the phone with me. Can you tell me did she have any other weapons besid besides a knife? >> She broke a glass. >> She broke a glass. >> Did she stab you with the broken glass also? >> Yeah. >> You need to think real hard and tell me who it is that did best. Tell me the person's name. Think real hard. Okay. Don't go to sleep. Stay with me. Tell me who it is. >> I don't know. Help. Help. >> Everybody's on their way. Okay. >> Okay. >> Are they ringing the doorbell? She cannot get to it. >> Help. Help. >> Got everybody coming. Okay. You hang with me. Don't hang up. >> Are they in the house yet? >> She's downstairs. >> Yeah. Yeah, they're here. They're here. >> Okay, I'll let you go. >> A trail of blood and faint cries for help guide officers to the basement of an apartment where they discover the victim, 26-year-old Michelle Wilkins, lying on a bed and clutching her lower abdomen. Close by, a broken bottle and bloodstained knife hint at a violent encounter. But her asalent, who she knows only as D, is nowhere to be found. Michelle tells officers that she's pregnant, but to their horror, it appears the baby may have been cut from her womb. She also appears to have been stabbed in the neck. They race Michelle in critical condition to Longland Hospital, where moments earlier, another woman had just entered clutching a newborn baby girl, claiming she had just given birth at home. The woman, 34year-old Dell Lane, and her fianceé Dave, are tended to by hospital staff. But when officers at the crime scene realize they're standing inside Dell's apartment, investigators move in to question her story. >> I have my pants on. So, I mean, I I felt her coming out. >> And how many babies do have you had? Two. I heard you say daughters or >> I have two daughters. >> Okay. >> By this point, Dell's fianceé, Dave, had left the hospital to pick up Dell's two daughters from school and wasn't present in the room. So, you're not sure how far along you are? Um, >> can you give a guess? >> I, you know, honestly, I wish I could give you that answer. I mean, I think the first time I felt her move was in July or August. I mean, just little like flutter eyes. But, um, >> and what are the cuts on your hand? I >> You know what? I don't know. I I didn't even they when I came upstairs and she said that I cut my hand. >> Okay. >> Okay. Was anyone with you at your house today? >> No, I've been by myself all day. >> Okay. >> Darnell's hand has several cuts, including one deep gash between her thumb and index finger. >> Why don't you let them look at that and just You don't have to put the baby down. Just one hand at a time. Is that okay? >> Are you bleeding badly? I don't think so. >> And you said you're not sure how that happened. >> Yeah. I >> Okay. Looks like you're going to need some stitches and I'm not even a doctor. >> You need some stitches, sweetie. So, you don't know how. >> Sorry. So, she probably cut herself when she was trying to cut the woman cuz you can. A lot of people even with regular knives, they say a lot of people they'll get cuts on their own hand when they they stab somebody. Then the broken bottle. I'm sure she probably cut her hand on that. And then the victim was like, "I fought back or I attacked her back or something, so she might have something on her from that." I'm trying to figure out why do these women think that your body is not going to tell you didn't have this baby? Like, what is the plan here? And then you go to the same local hospital they're bringing the victim to and the victim's in your house. I what is the and I understand that you probably already aren't thinking the best because you're taking someone's life and stealing their baby. But I just I don't even understand the the the thought process that oh this could definitely work. >> You got these big cuffs? No, those are some pretty big cuts. >> Given Dell's claims she just gave birth, an obstitrician enters for a routine checkup. >> Can I feel your uterus? I just want to make sure. I'm one of the OB doctors, Dr. Nelson. I just want to make sure. >> I'm gonna put your head down. >> I just I just want to look if you're having any >> bleeding. Okay. >> I don't have to let her go. >> Sorry. What time did you have the baby? >> I'm sorry. I don't remember. >> Have you done any blood work yet? >> Not yet. She won't let us start an IV or something yet. >> Once she declines the exam, investigators waste no time confronting Dell with what they know. Okay, now I've got a problem. There was a young girl in the apartment and she was cut cuz we've got officers there right now at my house. >> Yes. >> Do you know how that happened? >> I don't. There wasn't anybody there when I left. It was just me and my husband when we left. >> Okay. Any chance that your girls were there? >> No, they've been at school all day. Okay. You don't know anything about the woman that was in your apartment? >> No, I don't. Okay. There wasn't anybody there. Police on scene locate Michelle's phone. The screen cracked and splattered with blood. Text messages exchanged between the two women suggest Michelle was planning to meet her to pick up clothes and arrived at her home around 11:51 a.m. >> Well, unfortunately, I'm trying to figure some things out. >> Okay. >> Um, and I'm going to need some help to do it. But I'm going to tell you right now, things just aren't adding up >> because the young woman in your apartment has been injured very badly. >> Okay. >> I asked if you had any visitors today >> because we got a call to your apartment. When we got to your apartment, we found a young lady who had been cut open. Okay. She had a baby. >> Okay. >> In her stomach >> that had been cut out. Okay. That woman was transferred here. >> Okay. and she arrived here probably a few minutes after you did by ambulance. >> Hospital staff met with Michelle's boyfriend, providing him with an update on her current condition. >> Okay. So, it sounds like um where they just finished up in the operating room and they're taking her to the ICU. Okay. >> Which means they got her, you know, they found a way to get the bleeding stopped. >> Okay. >> Okay. The surgeon will be able to tell you what all they did and what what they if they had what they had to fix and everything like that, but she made it through the surgery just fine. She likely will still have the breathing tube in that I put in and be breathing breathing for her. Okay. Just because she's so sick. Okay. She lost a lot of blood. >> You can kind of see her. Um I know they're going to get her she's going to go from the operating room through recovery to the ICU. So it's going to be a little bit to get her stabilized and all that. Um, but I think as soon as we can, they'll let you see her. >> What the happened? >> That's why they search for her. >> She just physically assaulted. >> She was also dead. >> Yeah. >> Was she sexually assaulted? >> Oh, that I don't know. >> By this point, the authorities were still piecing together the details themselves. However, the circumstances were enough to suspect the infant belonged to Michelle and the newborn girl was separated from Dell and kept under police watch. >> How are you? >> Well, we've been friends for like 8 years and all of the hotel was living in North Carolina at the time and we talked about getting together. Were you all advertising to sell anything online? >> No, we were looking for various furniture. Been a lot of decorating to do >> and she has been doing crisis stuff. >> With Michelle on a breathing tube and unable to answer questions, investigators turn to Dell for answers. Despite the growing evidence against her, Dell continues to claim that the baby she brought to the hospital is her own. Is there anything truthful right now you want to tell me now? >> I don't know what's going on, sir. I really wish I did. I'm just about as confused as you guys are. >> When were you due? What's your due date? >> We haven't been able to go to the doctor. It's been such a mess. >> Do you have an approximate time? Like what month? >> I wish I could tell you. >> Did you have a C-section today or just regular delivery? >> No, she came out. She >> came out. >> Vaginal. Yeah. >> Okay. But was it at your house? >> Felt like I mean it just I can't even explain it. It just that little >> pretty quick uh event. >> I mean I walked up the stairs. I think I was halfway up the top stairs when she came out. >> Was your husband home at the time or >> he was on his way home and he walked in the door? I don't know. Back at the apartment, Dave pulled up in a silver sedan only to find a strong police presence. Officers noted Dave had a large blood smear on the back of his right hand and spots of blood on his clothes. He told officers he arrived home at around 2:15 p.m. to take Dynell to a prenatal checkup. According to a statement, he explained he made it to the last basement step before Dael appeared covered in blood, stating she had just given birth. After finding the baby upstairs in the bathtub, he raced the two to the hospital, never knowing he was one step away from the horrors police would soon find in the basement. Back at the hospital, investigators discussed the situation out of Dell's earshot. >> I knew things didn't add up when she said she thought baby last July. >> She's got pictures on Facebook. The first she last March, like a year ago, March, right? Dynell's Facebook page, which lists her as an assistant manager at Once Upon a Child, contains several photos of Dell, who appears pregnant as early as March of 2014. Officers also found registries on the bump and pregnancy corner stating her due date in November. Based on this information, officers conclude she would have a four or fivemonth-old baby by now. >> So, you know that the blood tests are really going to confirm or deny exactly what's going on? >> Yeah, that's what she said. And if there is something like say there's something strange right now, now is the best time to admit to what may have happened uh before the tests come back because if that happens, it's probably going to look a little bad and a little more worse for you. You know, is there a probability that the DNA the baby won't match you? >> No, she's lying. >> However, Michelle is still unconscious and fitted with a breathing tube. What >> I'mma I'mma tell y'all now. I'm have to leave this video for like a few hours and I'm have to take it down because I'm not adding enough commentary. I know, but I'm sitting here trying to I just want to listen too. Like I'm trying to figure out what's going on. These people don't understand. DNA will always tell the truth. Well, not always. When when it's taken, right, it'll always tell the truth about your lies. Um, I don't I I keep repeating myself. I don't understand the plan. This doesn't make sense. You don't even have fake dates in your head on how this would make sense. Then you do it at your house. You leave the victim with a phone. So thankfully she can call for help. You know, I'm glad for the victim. Stupid on her part. Stupid on the um I don't know if she's attempted murderers at this time, but you know, like I don't get it. I don't understand why people You're just going to end up in prison. Just just skip all the other steps and just go to prison. Whether investigators will hear her side of the story depends entirely on her survival. The detective makes it clear to Dell where the investigation stands at this point. >> I just spoke with the nurse. You don't appear as if you just had a baby. You have a large cut on your hand that you can't explain. And we have a lot of stuff that went on over at your house that we can't explain. >> I don't believe that's your baby and I need to find that out. As a DNA test threatens to bring the truth to light, Dell braces to tell her story. However, what she reveals is nowhere near what anyone expected to hear. >> I put an ad on Craigslist for some maternity clothes that I had that don't fit because I I've gotten a lot bigger and they just didn't fit. >> The ad offered the items for free. Dell explained that Michelle was one of many who responded and that she came to the house this morning to pick them up. and we stood there and we talked and we talked about my kids and we talked about just anything. I mean, I don't know. I don't really get to talk to anybody during the day, so it was kind of nice to talk to somebody. Um, and then the doorbell rang. >> Dell explains that the mailman arrived with a package containing essential oils that she was planning to sell, which she opened with a knife. Afterward, she showed Michelle some baby clothes, but Michelle wasn't interested. I asked her, I said, "I have an extra baby bath thing." I said, "Do you need one?" And she said, "Let me look at it first." She said she didn't want it. And I was like, "Okay." Well, she's like, "Well, I need to go." I was like, "Okay." So, I turned around and before I knew it, she had I think it was a knife that that I had opened my box with that had been sitting on the counter. >> Mhm. Um, that's I think how I cut my hand, but she came at me and I I just kind of reacted and then we ended up in my daughter's room and she just kept like she kept trying to hit me and I asked her. I was like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "Stop." And I mean, defending myself. I, you know, I was grasping at her and she was grasping at me. And like I finally had gotten to the point where I had her down and I'm like just stop. And she was just flailing just but she wouldn't stop like and it just seemed like every time I would kind of get leverage. It would just she would come at me again. She kept trying to punch me and she was like trying to bite me. What happened next? I think I choked her. It wasn't until the following day that officers observed injuries to Michelle's neck, which had not been visible when she was first found. It appeared as though Michelle had been severely strangled. >> It was a struggle. It was a big struggle. And I I was yelling. I was trying to maybe get my neighbors to to hear me. And I just I was trying to grab for her phone, but she I think had a lock on it. I'm not sure. But she I was like I need to call 911 and I was I strangled her. She wouldn't stop. >> Okay. >> Was she saying anything to you? >> I don't remember. I don't think so. She just she was just she wouldn't stop. >> Do you have any other injuries on your person >> beside your hand? Yeah. Why do you think your hand uh is so swollen? Did you hit something or >> So she's basically fully pregnant. the victim who comes into your home, your territory, and attacks you, doesn't know you from anybody, attacks you for no reason, and somehow during the struggle, she's strangled. She is cut open. You have her baby and you come to the hospital talking about you gave lab you you were in labor and had the baby. She attacked you and you scared of this DNA test that's coming up that they already said they're going to need you to do and you're refusing medical care. I think I hit her back and I'm not sure if I hit her or the wall when I was laying on the bed and she was over me and she was trying to hit me but she wasn't hitting me. Like during the struggle I you know I think we kind of flipped over and I was on her. >> Dell goes on to reveal the horrifying decision that followed. >> After she stopped moving I got scared and I started thinking about the baby. I thought I killed her. I was like, I killed this woman. They always tell you not to do things by yourself on Craigslist, but I didn't. It was a pregnant woman. I didn't think anything of it. I thought I killed her. And I I I didn't want the baby to die, too. I'm not this kind of person. I don't I don't do stuff like this. Like, I didn't know what to do. >> We're not judging you, dumb. >> I know. I know. I >> Yeah. Boss lady Nikki said, "People who can lie like that scare me. They scare me too. They lying to themselves. They lying to others. They and and and they assume they're going to get away with it or they wouldn't do it. They scare me too. And so now we're on to my reason for cutting this woman open is when I had to strangle her from attacking me and I thought she died. I didn't want the baby to die. But at no point in my own home could I find a phone to call 911 to say I've been attacked. It's a pregnant lady. I don't know if she's dead. You thought, "Let me use the knife that I got to open my box of essential oils and take the baby out of the the lady's body that attacks you." What do you do in a situation like that? Like, I just I reacted. I I got the knife that she had the baby out. >> Okay. Is that the baby that's in the other room? That's her baby. >> Okay. >> She's not mine. She's not mine. >> Okay. >> Following the critical admission that the child was not in fact her own, she reveals what happened next. >> The girl was moaning and she was crying. No, she wasn't crying. She was she was just making like breathing sounds and I got scared. >> Okay. Where'd you put the baby when you took the baby upstairs? >> In the bathtub. Okay. It was empty. I just I just sat her in there. >> Okay. So, she was moaning and making some noise. >> I know I should have said something, but I didn't. I just got scared. I just left her there. >> Okay. And when your husband came in, what happened? >> The baby was in the bathtub. >> Whose baby did he think it was? >> Are you pregnant? Did he think you've been pregnant? I wanted to tell him so bad. >> Now hold on. Now hold on. Her husband, cuz you remember they went to face Facebook and did a timeline on her. They said if she had have carried her baby when she claimed to be pregnant, the baby right now would be four to five months old. So now I am wondering how did the husband think, oh no, my wife gave labor, she's 14, 15 months alone. Because that's what we're saying with this math. Maybe 16 months along. And oh gosh, yes, of course. There's a baby in the bathtub. It's my wife's baby that she g she gave birth to that should actually be four to five months already delivered. And I need to get her to the hospital because of course my wife just gave birth to this. Now I need to know I need to know about this husband and what because yes you can believe your wife's pregnant but still you know it's going to take about 9 months. That's that's just the common knowledge of pregnancy. So I am wondering how he didn't think oh my god where did this baby come from? Cuz I know my wife would have already given birth. I have questions is what I'm trying to say. >> I was pregnant. I was pregnant. When were you pregnant? >> April the 1st. Last year. Okay. >> But it was his first baby. I never thought I could have another one after I lost my son. >> Dell shares that her son passed away 12 years ago when he was just 18 months old. The details of which will later come to light. >> My girls have been through so much. I even just another lost baby. I felt like it was my fault. I didn't go to the doctor and I didn't tell him that I lost a baby. >> What was your plan? >> I don't know. I was going to tell him so many times and he'd ask me, you know, what was going on and everybody was confused. What were they confused about? Just why it was taken. >> Detectives began speaking with people close to Dell to get more information about her pregnancy and behavior leading up to the attack. One friend mentioned seeing her on the Fourth of July weekend 9 months before the attack. >> And did she look pregnant? >> Mhm. >> Oh, okay. >> Mhm. She had like the little belly. She had like just the little baby bump that was taken in June. >> Investigators also spoke with Dell's two teenage daughters who at this point knew very little about the unfolding situation. >> When was she due? She was due first in December and we moved into November and then she >> Could you tell that your mom was getting bigger and the baby was ready to celebrate? >> Not really. For being pregnant, boy named James. Dell's family hosted a baby shower for little James in September of 2014 when Dell would have been seven or eight months pregnant. The jungle themed party featured a cake reading, "Welcome, James." They had a baby shower where she only had a month or two left to go. And and not the kids. I'm not talking about her kids. I'm talking about the adults around Dell are like, "hm, this pregnancy is taking really, really long. I have so many questions." >> Is she pretty excited? Yeah. I was excited. This was his first time. His first time being a father, so he was really excited. >> But the excitement began to wne after Dell's due date came and went. Still, she kept up the facade, telling her friend, "Pregnancy has been such a nightmare," blaming doctors for incorrect due dates. In several messages to one woman, Dell claimed to have already had the baby, stating it was a natural birth. Several photos of a baby boy were found on her cell phone, but investigators traced the image to a public website. However, by March 2015, nearly 4 months after she was supposed to give birth, she still appeared pregnant to Dave. Um, she just wouldn't tell me anything and then she kept saying she set up appointments and stuff like that and we're ready to go and then something would happen and we wouldn't go. >> I was frustrated because I didn't know what was going on with the pregnancy. I thought there might have been something wrong with the baby or something wrong with her and she wasn't telling me and I was just I was so stressed out cuz I'd ask her every other day when you know where can we go? Let's go to the emergency room right now. Let's go check it out. Um, pretty much throughout this whole year he's been trying to get her to a doctor and when she's like every time it was like a time for her to go, something would happen. >> Dave describes one instance where he finally went with her to an appointment, but it didn't go as expected. >> Yeah. And she didn't even sign and didn't even do anything. We're just sitting in this waiting room like fools, >> you know, and people are looking at us like, you know, people going in, going out, and we're just sitting there. Did that happen a lot or? >> It happened quite a few times. It happened at the salute place up here at least three times. There was a milestone at the hospital. We went there and they were like, "We don't even know who you are. You're not our cause." >> I mean, once you're just sitting there, what? >> She would get upset. She'd be like, "Oh, we're not going to be seen. They don't want to help us." Well, then throw a fit and then we'd leave. She'd be like, "God, I'm done with this. Let's go." After they left the appointment, Dell returned the same night, but this time she went alone. >> And they came back and had showed me the wristband from the um from the emergency room so she could prove to me that she went >> and then she had a recording of a heartbeat on the phone and she was like, "This is our son's heartbeat." And told me it was 128 beats a minute. This is it. And I listened to that thing for days. But I'm like, >> what's going on? >> You know, one thing I'd like to know, you know, if she was ever pregnant at any point in the last year. >> The answer to Dave's question may remain unanswered. And a shocking revelation from one of her friends only deepens the mystery. >> Did you ever know her to have any other miscarriages? >> No. Like after all this has happened, like I feel like we put a lot on her. Like, and maybe it's just a friend feeling guilty, but like we made this baby to be like the miracle baby because she couldn't have the kids, you know what I mean? Like died. Like she wanted another one and she couldn't. Like she was fixed. >> You knew she had that she was fixed. >> Mhm. >> One of her two ex-husbands, Chris, also shared this claim with investigators. >> Uh, did you guys ever talk about having kids? >> Uh, no. Cuz right off the bat, she told me that her tubes were tied. So >> she told you right off the bat? >> Yeah. Like well couple weeks in or whatever. Yeah. I mean but >> after you were married or when you were >> uh just still dating. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. And she told me about her son that she lost with her her previous ex-husband and everything. >> Jason, her first ex-husband and the father of her two daughters shared what happened to their son and how the loss impacted Dell. >> He drowned in a pond. It was at uh their grandparents house and she just lost track of him and he wandered out into the back and >> who uh Dell lost track of him. Yeah. >> Or Okay. Okay. And it was >> she was there with them. I was out picking up the swing set with her dad. >> Okay. >> And she lost track of him and he wandered out into the backyard pond and and fell in there and she found him. Tried to do CPR. >> Okay. >> But we we ended up losing him. He was 10 months old. >> How' they take that? >> She took it hard. >> Took it hard. >> She took it hard. I tried to be as supportive as I could during that time, but you know, that's that's a mother losing a child. >> Yeah, totally. It's going to it's going to mess with >> Did you notice a real change in her? >> Um, be honest with you. Yeah. I mean, we ended up divorced. >> In her interview with investigators, Dell admitted to having the procedure. >> Girl sad made me get my tubes tight cuz he didn't want any more children. And it was a few months after that that my son died. >> The weirdest thing was she said it sucked that like her tutor type because we would have such a cute baby. Yeah. And that was about it. But after we broke up, I know she like told my one friend Selena that she had a a miscarriage while we were together. And I was like, how was that even possible? Like her twos are tied. So >> yeah. So how long did you know her before then? Before you got married? >> Uh maybe like 4 months. It was kind of a stupid just real quick. We thought we were in love. Yeah. >> Well, love was bad. >> Yeah. That was the best of us. I Hey, I'm glad it didn't work out. >> Jason explains he learned about what happened when his daughter posted about it on Facebook, leaving him concerned with how much the girls know regarding the situation with their mother. >> You know, I don't know how much they know now. I would guess they know a fair amount based on just all the media coverage. A lot of it's out in the press. Some of it, like I said, is not totally accurate. Some of it's more accurate. The general story, everyone knows the general story. She did show up in the hospital though. >> I know. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. She was contacted at the hospital. >> All right. And then the other story part of the story that I want to confirm is she actually did remove the fetus from the mother. >> That's what it looks like. >> During questioning, investigators didn't disclose what happened to either teenager. The oldest was understandably confused, having just returned from school to find police at her house. >> I want to know what's going on. It's not what you're expecting, right? Probably not. >> Since she has a baby, I know the house is washed up. It doesn't seem to go together. >> It's clear the experience left a deep mark as Darnell's oldest daughter struggled to hold back tears in the interview room. The youngest was left confused, writing in a statement, "This whole thing is pretty weird. I just wish I knew what is happening. I just want to go home and have a normal life again." In addition to speaking with family and friends, investigators attempted to get information from Dynell's co-workers at Once Upon a Child. But the manager confirmed she's never been employed with any of their stores. >> Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay. I feel bad for her children. I do wonder when women we've been watching like this, they fi how do they find it easier to take someone else's life and steal their child and risk going to prison and ruining whoever else is in your life, their life, and you you have children to take care of, but even if they don't, even if they have no children, how is that easier than telling someone that you had a miscarriage and maybe you still don't want tell them. But taking someone else's life is easier. Like that's what I'm sitting here thinking cuz that was the choices. I don't want to admit it. Instead, I'll I'll take somebody else out and take their baby because that is easier. That's crazy. >> Never had anything like this ever happen to me. I've never even in school, I never I never hit anyone. I never Why would somebody do that to you? I mean, I just don't understand. I'm like, I know it looks so much worse on my part because I had to defend myself. And then if I if I did something I did something really bad, I don't go to jail. I've always been that person. I thought about that for everybody else. And I never thought it would ever have to be me. But >> Well, what what should happen to the other lady? You think? >> I don't know. You just you >> do you think she's a guilty person for what happened or is she more of an innocent person? I don't know. Can I ask a question? You you described it one way. I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a minute. Okay. >> Could you have possibly felt the need to have a child and because of such you went after her? >> No, I didn't. Honestly, I've been wanting to tell my husband that I wasn't pregnant for quite a while. It was just kind of trying to find the words to tell him. >> So, why would you is your baby upstairs? and it was just kind of like a like a moment's reaction and I didn't know what to do. >> Dave would later reveal an important detail to police that may shed light on Dell's decision. For now, Dell finally asks about Michelle's condition. >> You know, after >> so I do know she's out of surgery, whether to be stitched up or I don't know how bad she was and things like that. >> Is she alive? >> Yes, she is alive. Well, last that I know. >> I'm just I'm glad she's okay. I hope she's okay. >> Against all odds, Michelle survived the brutal attack. Nearly 2 weeks later, still recovering from her injuries, she sat down with detectives to deliver an emotional account of the horrors she endured in that basement on March 18th. >> Can tell which rooms are for the suspects, which are seriously I want to be my suspects in this room. Really make them more comfortable. Yep, it worked. How are you feeling today? >> Um, I don't know. It's so unreal. Had a lot of vivid dreams and I just woke up a lot last night. It's like some nights I sleep all the way through and some wake up. Working through that. It's going to take time. It's not one of those things you get over right away. You'll probably never get over it. You'll get through it. I just I had, you know, like I had a panic attack afterwards and like really late at night and like scared the crap out of So, >> how's he doing? >> It's hard to say because, you know, like a lot of his energy is dedicated towards like helping me be. >> Mhm. >> In a lot of ways, you know, but it's like I really want to come to therapy because it's like both of us. This happened to both of us. >> Michelle begins by explaining what happened when she first arrived at Dell's apartment. So when I got there, I didn't really have anything to do. There was no rush. And she kind of she talked about how like kind of lonely she was because her daughters would get home from school and didn't want to hang out. And her husband would or she referred to him as husband a lot. >> Okay. Yeah. So her husband would like go to the gym right after he got homework really late. So she kind of like it sounded lonely and like every time I was kind of like, "Oh, well, you know, like I'm going to go do this." and she would just keep talking. So I was just like maybe she's just like that, you know, she's just lonely. >> When you're talking, did she say she was pregnant or >> Yeah, she said she said it was due any day now and she like had a belly. I thought she looked really small. Like when when I saw her, I thought she's skinny to be like over 9 months pregnant. said it was due like March 3rd and that was late so it was supposed to come in time. She was asking me like if I needed anything >> I said like that we pretty much had it you know all all we needed was a crab >> when you talked about having a girl. Do you remember what she said? >> I just remember her kind of like saying nice things about having girls. she said too and I think she started talking about her girls and how much like I think she said something like to the effect of like that she likes girls better you know that it was like yeah I just remember her saying positive things about girls but I don't remember like specifically what she said >> okay when you guys were talking were you down in the entryway were you upstairs like standing we had gone to the bathroom and she had put we had gone through the clothes and just like took out stuff she thought would be too big for me and then put it all in a plastic bag. >> Things took a dark turn when Michelle made the decision to leave. >> Eventually, I just started walking towards the door. >> Mhm. >> You know, and that's when she like the door was open. I just feel like such an idiot for not leaving them. >> Don't beat yourself up over it. >> Right there. We were right at the door. She actually closed it in front of me and said, "Oh, I think I have some stuff for you downstairs." She like reached over in front of me and closed the door and let me show you some stuff downstairs. I think I have some girl clothes. >> She followed Dell into the basement unaware that she would soon be fighting for her life. >> She actually like went looked like she was ravaging through some stuff to find stuff. Yeah. So that's when she was kind of like looking through stuff and I sort of just started backing out of that point was like no I really don't need anything and so I just started like walking out said but it's really nice room you know thanks for >> like letting me see your lovely house. >> This is when Michelle attempted to leave for a second time. >> So you went back toward the stairs and she was still behind you. >> Yeah. >> Do you remember where you were standing when she first hit you in the chest? >> She hit me from behind. She was behind. Okay. >> And I asked her, I thought it's like there was like a spider on me or something cuz she hit me like really hard with the flat of her palm as I was going up the stairs. >> Okay. >> And I'm glad she's I'm glad she's alive because I Okay, please please do not go in people's houses cuz they're selling something or giving something away for free. If you are a Craigslist person, offer up Facebook Marketplace. Meet them away from their territory. Number one, if you can, but definitely don't go inside their dwelling because you don't know people's intentions. Now, I would prefer to meet up in a police station or uh the near the fire department, something like that. I need or even even a a well like in the day broad daylight. is high noon where everybody can see me in the middle of a Walmart parking lot or something. I need to be in public. I need you to be scared cuz there's too many witnesses. Um and that's if I'm going to do it. One time when we were in Texas, Mr. Trending, um my mother-in-law, she had her peacemaker with her and we were in a parking lot. I feel like I hope it was daytime cuz he he be taking too many risks for me sometimes, but I feel like it was daytime. But my mother-in-law, you know, Texans, they going to have something on them. So, she had her peacemaker ready to go in case anything happened. I'm like, I don't I don't even want to be at the point where I feel like I need one though. Uh, but that's them, you know. But yeah, just no, don't go in people's houses. Um, Ashley Jay said, "I remember I used to be a huge Lifetime movie fan, and I swear when I was pregnant, all the movies with stuff like this kept coming on around my due date. I wasn't taking any chances, and no, you can't touch me. I'm with you. I'm with you. It It's not Uh-uh. It's not happening. It's already a risk being around people that already knew you while you were pregnant. No new friends while you're pregnant. About to have the No, none of that. I don't know you. No, we can't be friends. No, we can't get to know each other. Don't DM me. No. Mm- >> And that's when I was like, "Did I have spider on me?" And she said, "I think I got it." And she like pulled my sweater and like swung me around facing the other direction and like started lifting up my sweater like really roughly like and I was like, "What the hell is on my back?" You know, and I was just like turned around and was like, "Hey, you know, like what are you doing?" And she was like, "You hit me. Like, this is my house. Like, what are you doing?" And I was just like, "I thank you for the baby clothes. Like, I don't want to hurt you. Like, I just want to leave." And that's when she started like praying that she wanted to call the cops and trying to like shove me into the bathroom. >> And you didn't get into the bathroom at all. >> No. I was like, "That's when I kind of like resisted with my body and was like I mean, the whole situation was just bizarre." her like I didn't do anything, you know, I just wanted to leave. >> Michelle's story is corroborated by what she told dispatchers in her 911 call as she struggled to maintain consciousness following the attack. >> Were you having a fight? >> You were just trying to leave. >> While Michelle's recollection is fuzzy after that, evidence indicates she was strangled and bashed over the head with a glass lava lamp. During her first hospital interview, she recalled Dinell saying, "If you love me, you'll let me do this." before stabbing her in the neck with a broken edge of the lava lamp. Then Michelle lost consciousness. It was after this that Darnell took a knife and began performing a procedure known as a cecerian section. A doctor who examined Michelle's wound at the hospital told investigators it was well performed, and to achieve the level of accuracy, one would have to have researched the procedure. While no such research was found on her phone or laptop, it's worth mentioning that Dell was a former certified nursing assistant. Blood smeared on the washer and dryer, as well as glass shards found inside the washing machine indicated Dell attempted to clean up the crime scene before her fianceé Dave arrived home unexpectedly. According to his written statement, Dell called him to see if he'd left work yet and asked him to go run an errand at her daughter's school. She sounded out of breath, so he made the decision to go home and check on her, only to find her covered in blood, claiming to have just given birth at home. They left for the hospital, which provided Michelle the opportunity to call for help. >> Ready to be done? >> Okay, but it was hard to get over. It's like the one thing I kept asking like the whole time I was having it was just like why? >> Investigators learned that Dave's suspicions had reached a breaking point. Dave confided in a friend who shared his concerns with his wife Kimberly. She then posted the information to a Facebook group, stating that Dell's whole pregnancy has been sketchy, adding that she's several months overdue and refusing to go to the doctor. The post caught the attention of a bereavement doula named Elizabeth who stated this is a red flag, adding that if she's desperate, she may do the unmentionable and harm the mother and take the baby. Woo reached out to Elizabeth who told us she was kicked out of the Facebook group for suggesting this outcome was a possibility. One month following the Facebook post, Dell told a friend she wanted to meet her roommate who was pregnant. And >> see this some this this see look Ashley had just put in there be careful of those mom groups during and after pregnancy. Yep. Cuz if if it's fresh you happen you had a baby they taking your baby. Uh if it's if you're still pregnant obviously they don't they don't care. They're taking your baby. They kicked the one person out bereavement doula out of the group for saying hey be cautious. She could try to take someone's baby and that's who you kick out the mom group. Throw the whole group away. Yeah, I don't. Uh-uh. I don't trust this stuff. >> Stopped by their house. However, the roommate wasn't home. It's unclear if she'd been actively searching for a victim at the time. However, one thing was certain. Dell's time was running out. She messaged a friend on Facebook in late February, revealing that Dave was ready to call it quits. I gave her an ultimatum. I was like, "By the first of March, I want to go to a doctor's appointment with you." And if that doesn't happen, then I, you know, I don't know if I can do this anymore. >> Okay. Answer my question. We only got a couple minutes to go, but answer my question about the husband. Did you suspect something? What were you thinking? So, he was concerned enough to reach out to a friend um and also put his foot down, his ultimatum, because he just like something wasn't right. Okay, that's all I needed. I just need to know that he had to realize this is not normal and you can't Okay, so his stuff makes sense. So, we're just back on Danielle. >> In a series of text messages between Dave and a man named John, he writes, "She's been lying to me. She has an appointment and if I don't go to this one and find out what the hell is going on, she's gone. The appointment, which her daughter believed was to induce labor, was set for March 16th, but was missed and rescheduled for the afternoon of March 18th. That morning, Dinell lured Michelle to her home, viciously attacked her, and stole her baby. She then brought the premature baby girl to the hospital, but the infant did not survive. Michelle and her boyfriend were briefly reunited with their daughter, who weighed just over three lbs, and named her Aurora. 34year-old Dell Lane was charged with multiple counts, including first-degree attempted murder, two counts of first-degree assault with a deadly weapon causing serious bodily injury, two counts of seconddegree assault causing injury with a deadly weapon, and unlawful termination of pregnancy in the first degree. She entered a plea of not guilty, but was ultimately found guilty of all charges at her trial in February 2016 and sentenced to 100 years in prison. She's currently serving her sentence at the Denver Women's Correctional Facility in Colorado. If you'd like to Wow. Wow. So, this one, the baby did not make it. Mom made it. The first one we watched, Mom didn't make it. Baby made it. Oh, that's too much. I don't I don't know if that couple survived this, especially if he wasn't um willing to go to counseling with her cuz I mean it's not just losing the baby from the victim. It's like she was attacked and everything. Um both of these again were EWU. What's their channel name? Hold on. Ah, Crime Story Time. I do like their channel. I think they have more than one channel, but if I see EWU, I know it's going to be covered well. So, I definitely when I look at interrogation videos, I do like theirs. Um, there's some other ones I like, but they're one of them. There's another one called like it's it's close to the name of Netflix, but it's called something else instead of Netflix. Um, but yeah, thank you to the person that sent me both of these cuz again, I thought one was a followup. I didn't realize it was two different instances. Um, but yeah, that's that's all we have. I don't know if I'll be able to keep this one up. We'll see if I'll leave it. We'll see if EW is okay with it. if they're like, "Ah, no." I get it cuz I didn't have commentary every time sprinkled in like that. It was just so much to to take in. I didn't have a lot. So, we'll see. So, if it's if you don't see this video again, they probably were like, "Hey, that's not enough of your original content." I get it. It's okay. But, um, you know, they say it's for educational purposes and all that. And so, we watched it. I will see y'all later on this week. And yeah, uh, I hope you have a better I hope y'all have an okay night. You know, I don't know what to say after looking at something like this. It's too much. But be careful moms to be get counseling for um the ones that may have lost their child. Please get counseling. But yeah, just be careful overall. Even if you're just getting an item and it's nothing to do with you being pregnant, be careful. People are crazy out here and they just don't care. They don't they don't care. They just worry about themselves. All right, y'all. I will talk to y'all later. Bye.