All right. If you don't like commentary, I'm not offended. There will be commentary, so there's your warning. >> [laughter] >> What did you say to the defendant? And can you spell that for the court reporter? T A T A T H A A R C H A E And uh Ms. Archie, did you know Brodus Perry? And can you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury how you knew him? He was my And was he your husband Can I get you to speak up? Explain like you're trying to reach the back door. Okay. She's reporting your pain, so we want to make sure you get your pain inside. When were y'all married? Uh 2014, February 2014. And were you married to him in April of 2019 when he died? Yes. Uh How old was he at that time? 38 I'm going to pass you something and ask you if you can identify Can you identify that? Yeah, that's Brodus Perry. Let that Let that be marked State's Exhibit 1, please. No objection. Okay. All right. We'll show uh the photo of Brodus Perry as Exhibit 1. May I publish that for the jury? Yes. Is that the photo you used to identify? Yes. When was the last time you talked to him? Um April 4th? April 4th when he died. Okay. And that's the day he died. Correct. Were you there when that happened? Yes. Where were y'all living at the time? Collierville, Tennessee. How long had y'all been in Shelby County? Approximately 6 months. Where were you before that? Little Rock, Arkansas. And what did Mr. Perry do as his occupation? He was a pastor. And is that what he did in in Little Rock as well? >> Yes. Where was he at Little Rock? Where was he a pastor at? St. Mark Baptist Church. And do you know is that a big church? Yes, it's a big church. Uh do they have a lot of pastors? Yes. What was What was his role as a pastor there? He was a pastor of assimilation. So, his responsibility was basically new members as well as small groups. Uh did he do any counseling or anything at that church? No. Um I want to take you specifically to April 4th of 2019. Uh And that night, 9:00 or 10:00 at night, uh where were you? I was home. And was Brodus there with you? No, he was not. Did you have a vis- visitor? I did. Was it an expected visitor or an unexpected visitor? Unexpected. Can you tell me how that went? Um I had I heard a knock at the door. So, me and the dog went to the door. Um I didn't see anyone through the peephole cover. And I thought it was Brodus just playing around, so I'm like I said something like, "You know, I'm not going to open the door. I can't see anyone." So, I went and sat back down. And I heard a knock again, so I went back to the door and I peeked out the door and I saw like a lock like swinging and I was like, "Tasha, is that you?" And she, you know, nodded, yeah. So, I was like, "Okay, let me put the dog up." I went and put the dog up and then I came back. I opened the door. Okay. So, you knew uh Latasha Vance. Yes. Is she in the courtroom today? Yes. Can you Can you point her out for us, please? Right there. Uh what color shirt she wearing? Blue. Light blue or dark blue? Light blue. For the record, Judge, she's identified the uh defendant. For the record, let the defendant be identified. How How would you describe your relationship with the defendant? Friendly. Okay. You knew her You may have said this. Where did you know her from? I knew her from church. In Memphis or Little Rock? >> In Little Rock. Did y'all do other things together outside of church? I would say from maybe July to October we played tennis together like once a month. Um I went to a couple dance classes. I think she had a a former client who taught dance, so I went to a couple dance classes. My life group would go with her life group to a couple dance classes. So, it was somebody you knew from church, somebody you knew from some events at church, somebody you played tennis with occasionally. So, you you knew her fairly well. Would you say that? Yeah. Um I mean, what did you think when she just showed up? Did you have any idea she knew where you lived or I I knew that it was odd. I felt like it was odd, but I guess it was one of those things where, you know, it's like, this is weird, but okay. You know, I knew that before we left Little Rock we gave a lot of people our address, you know, a lot of people are, you know, keep in contact, you know, give me your forwarding address, that type of thing. So, I really didn't allow myself to really think past that. I just figured, "Oh, we must have given her our address." So, it wouldn't have been unusual for somebody from the church in Little Rock to know where you were in Memphis. Wouldn't be unusual, no. Um did you ask her what she was doing there? Yeah, I asked her what she was doing there and she said that she was in town for a conference. Um So, what did y'all do after she you I invited wel- welcomed her in and what happened then? I invited her in. We just sat on the couch and just kind of caught up. You know, how are you? What's going on? How are the kids? You know, have you been playing tennis? Stuff like that. Just really small talk. Did you um notify Mr. Perry that she was there? I text him and I just, you know, gave like the big eyeballs and I was like I just said weird or strange or something like that. Um but I didn't go into detail to tell him what was going on or that she was there. Did you ask him to come home if he was available to come home? >> No, because I knew he was already on the way home. Okay. So, you had I guess had a conversation with him by phone, text, or something and so you you had an idea he was coming home then. >> Yes. How long do you think that uh she was there prior to Mr. Perry getting home? Approximately, I mean, it's not 5 minutes, 30 minutes, I don't know. If I had to guess, I would say maybe 10 minutes. Okay. I don't know. And can you kind of describe what happened when Mr. Perry came in the door? He came in and he's like, "I thought there was a surprise here for me. This isn't a surprise. This is an unexpected guest." Be you know, real agitated. Did he So, did he seem to know that she would be there? No, he didn't He didn't give away to me that he thought she would be there. Um so, he said that and then he was, you know, telling me about he had brought me some aminos or something and just regular small talk and then he sat down and started basically grilling her about why she was there. Okay. And how long did did y'all continue to have conversation after that? Um Yeah, but it was Did you drink anything like that? Um I think they may have had bourbon. I didn't have any. I think that I'm pretty sure he offered bourbon. Um yeah. How long would she Would you say that she stayed? After he got there, um maybe another 10 minutes. And what happened? Uh she You know, she said, "Well, I'm not going to keep you guys. I'm going to, you know, head out or whatever." So, we all got up to walk to the door and I led and she was behind me and he was behind her and I walked to the door and I'm just giving this little spiel about not speeding in the area, you know, just making small talk as we go to the door. I open the door and I go out. We're on the second floor and I'm like right at the steps when I turn back and I'm like, "Okay, no one's behind me." And did I see her pull out her gun and start shooting? Was she inside of the apartment or house? No, she was outside of the apartment and he was like standing in the doorway like in the threshold. Um had she ever since she got there and you let her in, had she left the apartment to go back to her car or anything? No. So, she had brought the gun in with her when she came into the apartment. Yes. Uh So, when she pulled the gun out, what happened then? She started shooting. He hit the ground. And I started running toward him and she told me like basically back off. So, I stopped and I ran to the neighbor's door and I banged on the door, you know, call 911. Uh she went back into the apartment, so I went back into the apartment because I'm just trying to figure out what is going on. Like, why is this happening? So, I'm, you know, screaming naturally, you know, why is this happening? What's happening? You know, why are you doing this? So, did you do you think your neighbor called 911 at that point? One of them did. Somebody called. When you got back into the apartment, um did the defendant still have the gun in her hand? Yes. And what was going on then? I guess at that point, I'm basically pleading like what's happening? Why are you doing this? Please leave. You know, um and she's, you know, kind of pacing a little bit, you know, with the gun. Um at some point, the gun was reloaded. Um So, she she fired until she ran out of uh bullets? Mhm. Were you ever shot? I was shot. Tell me about that. When did that happen? And where were you? What Before she says where she was shot. So, when the defense attorney gave her opening statement, she said, um Latasha, you know, was blank and shocked, standing still. Police used non-lethal, and then that's when she finally went to the ground. All this other stuff. But, she had the presence of mind to bring the gun with her to the apartment. Buy the gun the same day. Bring the gun with her to the apartment. Empty the clip and reload. The reloading really really, I feel like, hurts her on this one, too. Cuz that whole crime of passion, they'll try to, you know, say all that. You reloaded. I don't I don't know about that one. At some point, I got on the ground, and I don't I can't remember if I got on the ground immediately, but I was on the ground, and I was kind of hovering over him. You know, kind of in my mind, I'm like, let me cover his head, you know, so he doesn't get shot anymore. And, you know, she was yelling at me to move, and I wouldn't move. So, I got shot. Where did you get shot? In the shoulder. Tell me about those injuries. How How Where and how were you treated? What have you had to deal with since being shot? Um so, it went into the shoulder, broke this bone. And, um So, at the emergency room, they decided that they wouldn't remove the bullet because Sorry. Don't know. Take Take your time. They felt like it wasn't going to move, so they just didn't remove it. Uh but, when I got to Jacksonville, I know that's home, Florida. I went back home, and they noticed that the bullet had started moving, so the first doctor I went to was like, this bullet is too close to your lungs, so, you know, it's going to have to go. And I went to a first I went to the orthopedic doctor, then I went to another doctor. Um and they decided to just remove it. And by the time it was removed, it was coming out of my back. So, the bullet was had punctured the skin and was poking out of my back, so I had to have it surgically removed. So, did that cause you a a lot of pain the night you were shot? Yes. A lot of pain uh between being shot and having the bullet removed? A lot of pain. And then the surgery was also not comfortable, I'm guessing, as well. >> Right. And then the And then the shoulder is still broke on top of that. The bone here is, you know, it was it was still broke the whole time. So, there was the bone healing on top of the surgery and everything else. Uh does it still cause you pain even today? Sometimes, depending on what I'm doing, I'll get like a sharp pain. There is um I mean, we we've talked about this sentence. Mhm. Um but And I don't know, do you dispute the fact that Mr. Perry and the defendant were involved in a extramarital affair at the time? >> I don't now, no. Um prior to Mr. Perry's death, did you have any idea that the defendant and Mr. Perry were involved in any kind of an inappropriate relationship? No. Did Mr. Perry at any time have any conversation with you about he would like to have a relationship with Latasha Daniels? No. Did he at any time have a conversation with you about he wanted to have a relationship with anyone other than you, a sexual relationship with anyone other than you? One time, he told me about a book that he wanted me to read. Right. That was about the extent of it. Is that is a marriage where you would agree to allow your spouse to have a sexual relationship with somebody else, anything that you would ever agree to? No. And by saying that, does that mean you never agreed to that with Mr. Perry? I did not. And you had no idea anything like that was going on? I did not. When you were trying to when you were on the ground trying to protect Mr. Perry, and I think you testified to this, I just want to make sure I heard you correctly. Did you say that the defendant was telling you to move? Yes. And you refused to move. Yes. And that's when you were shot. Correct. That's all. Cross-examination? Yes, Charlotte. May I have just a moment to get Thank you, Mr. wife killer. Thank you. I'm skipping ahead till they start talking again. because that was I have Please. I apologize if I refer to Perry, because that was just what I knew you as. Please feel free to correct me, okay? Um I want to talk to you about some things regarding this, okay? Um first, I want to talk about ethical non-monogamy. Mhm. When you were on direct, you told uh Mr. Calvin that there was a book he wanted you to read. Mhm. That book was called The Ethical [ __ ] I guess. I don't think I ever considered it enough to know the name, but I guess. Um and that was something that he was interested in and brought to your attention. Right. He thought he he told me about this book. I had read this book. I think you should read it. Did he tell you what it was about? I I think I've gathered what it was about, yeah. What did you gather it was about? I gathered that it was about um people who are in open marriages. Um and is that something that you were interested in? No. Now, there was an ethical non-monogamy group that Broaddus was in, right? His His book club. Right. Apparently so. Um and did you know about the chat group that he had with [snorts] two other women regarding that book? No, at the time. This is something I learned about maybe 2 years after his death. I knew that he was in a book club. know what kind of book club it was. Um to know Broaddus is to know that he's very very much a nerd. Um I would say he After he died, I probably gave away a thousand books. So, to say I'm in a book club didn't seem out of the ordinary to me. So, did you know that he was on this And this was on the Marco Polo app that he was talking to these women, right? >> Mhm. Did you know that he was talking to people on that app? I I did know, because I asked him, why are you always on this app? And he said, well, you know, I'm in that book club, and instead of constantly typing back and forth, we just get on the video and chat about the books that we're reading. And you saw him on there a lot. >> Like, you know, when when you log on, you can see who else is on. So, I'm like, why are you always Yeah, why are you always on that app? Um did Broaddus ever talk to you about bringing a watcher into your relationship? >> No. Did he ever talk to you about Ms. Daniels being a watcher in your relationship? No. Did he ever talk to you about wanting to have a girlfriend outside of having you as his wife? No. Did you select Ms. Daniels for Broaddus to have a relationship? No. I'd like to show you some videos, okay? Um and it will be clips, mostly. Um and then I'm going to ask you some questions about those clips, okay? Just quick, since they did turn to the past the past his I'mma say well, know the I can't say ex-wife, but when they Okay, the fact that she's showing her hand, I wonder if she remarried. That was my whole point to to point out. I wonder if she remarried cuz it's been 6 years. I said over 5 years, but it has been 6 years since uh Latasha Daniels shot um her and her husband up until this trial finally started. Can you ask her if he would please allow her to sit with me during the next session? Thank you. You know, I'm at a place now where I you know, I want to expand this ethical non-monogamy and I'm just not in it. Your opinion matters to me because we were in this relationship, but at the same time, you know, like I told her before in the house, I don't want to be respectful, but I also want to let you know that you know, your opinion matters, but at the same time, I don't want you to put me in a in a box, right? Because while we talked about it in theory, this is now the practice part. And with us tapping perfectly fine with you know, the situation because how I've handled and been honest and transparent with her regarding this kind of relationship, me expanding it is not an issue for me. Basically, she told me, "Hey, you tell me we can talk about it when you think it's worth talking about, but the way that you handled this, I'm fine with non-monogamy. I trust you definitely because you haven't given me a reason not to." Um And he's just sitting up there lying, lying, lying. She just said she didn't know about this till 2 years later. And he's up here got a group chat with women. And I know he told those women probably the same thing he told Latasha. Only message me either through this Marco Polo app or video, whatever, and confide. Don't probably contact me unless I contact you first. All the things he probably told Latasha. He did with other women. There's no way you can do all that and say your wife knows. Nah. Yes, he's 75. He's trash. Unethical, immoral, especially again, role as a pastor. I do believe that she Latasha did come in seeking honest to God spiritual guidance. I believe that part. He's predatory. She needs therapy like y'all said, and she needs better judgment, too. But she's taking it to the part where it's kind of too late cuz um I Few prisons have anything to actually help you with mental health. So, this clip is him talking about Latasha not being okay with the ethical non-monogamy and you being perfectly on board with it. Was that true? No. Did you believe that Broaddus was being open and transparent and honest with you about his relationship with Latasha? What relationship? He He wasn't being open with you about his relationship with Latasha, right? That there was a relationship at all? No. He was not transparent about that. There was no There was nothing. To my knowledge, there was no relationship. Beth, and you never said because he was so open and honest and transparent with you with his relationship with Latasha that you were okay with him then adding another partner. No. That didn't ever happen. >> No. And those aren't an issue. But I get it. They aren't an issue. I have been, though. So, you were talking this week so they can get a little more serious with me. You know, for me, our agreements have been simple, right? No exes. Nobody from Jacksonville from where she's from for us. And nobody in the city city that she currently living in, which means you might have exes. Uh that was the case, of course, in Little Rock outside of girlfriend because girlfriend is is in Little Rock. The way that kind of happened is, short version, when she decided to open up the marriage and allow allow me to be open with her. Um girlfriend is a therapist, right? And she didn't go there for therapy, but she asked us some questions. And based on this therapy session she had with this these other this other lady. And she was asked her some questions. It's after she had just said, "Broaddus, this is what I'm going to let you do. Blah blah blah, you know, it is what it is." And from there, she asked us some questions. And so, she was like, "I have a couple of questions for you." And you know, they would go play tennis together. She was one of my life leaders. And so, we we had rapport. Like we all like we had rapport. And she asked a question and it was like, "Yeah, blah blah blah, I'm thinking about this. And what do you think about this? Or what do you think X Y think of potential non-monogamy?" Um And so, I would look and see who was in this cigar lounge cuz this is not where I really feel comfortable. So, yeah, I'm kind of careful about potential things in here cuz I don't want to be asked about that. You know, I really want to go in and go shield in the back, but what I remember, but yeah, I'm trying to leave before I get caught up in here. But anyway, so the next thing that she shared with her was, "You know, you know my husband like you, right? What do you think he'll try?" And she was like, "Well, I don't know." And he was like, "Yeah, I I know what he likes. And what do you think he'll try?" Not that he's been rude or anything like that. We've had conversations. Well, you know, we did cuz like one day one time I was We were sitting around having a watcher. And she asked me, I was like, "What do you got to get her?" I ain't going to get her. I'm going to cross this off. This creepy guy trying to spice things up. Um And in that regard, even though that was even somewhat limited with the idea of somebody watching a mate, that's That's literally, you know, that. But when the question came, Just to pause it for a minute. In your relationship with Broaddus, did you outline Did you make those rules up? No. That was not true. That's true. Um did you Were you the one who initiated the conversation about Latasha? No. Did you ever reach out to Latasha about Broaddus engaging with her? No. Um Did he ever talk to you about wanting a watcher as he described here? No. But did you ever agree to having a watcher as he described here? No. And what he was talking about is she she asked, "Who Who would you want?" "Who would you want?" And that was the first thing when I said it. She was like, "I didn't like her. I I didn't know about her." So, anyway, so she said he like you, you know, blah blah blah. And she said, "But if you were interested, just know I'm not saying that you are, but I will also say that I've given him this X Y Z and he may come your way." Um and she did. And she was like, "Okay, cool." So, we had a conversation. And after that, that's when the whole nobody in the city that came in was more like, "I'll give you a pass with her because I essentially gave you the alley." Um but nobody You know, nobody. So, I'm I'm trying to figure this So, fast forward through a whole lot of [ __ ] I'm trying to figure it out. So, I had been thinking about you know, the past couple weeks in terms of expanding, you know, my ethical non-monogamy. This kind of So, my wife You know, her and me were chatting the other day. I was like, "Baby, I got a couple of questions. I'm curious, you know." She knows about the non-monogamy. So, I was like, "When do you want to Just to ask a couple questions real quick. Mary say her husband was mental. He just He out here just making up conversations. He want to be a podcast bro so bad. That's what this gives me. Podcast men that shouldn't have mics in podcasts. That's what he gives me. Uh he's just lying on his poor wife. Just lying on her. Oh my gosh. So, the only real thing it seems like he did do, he actually brought up to her, was he recommended a book, but she didn't even take it seriously enough to remember the name of the book. And kind of not what it's about, but I do feel like I would remember the name of that book if if it was brought to me. Even if I didn't read it. I know the name of that book cuz that's a crazy name for a book. Crazy. Especially what you're trying to ask me. But yeah, he's he's just delusional. Well, he was delusional. He was making up stuff. Oh, and talking about he basically trying to expand his radius out to find more women, more sister wives. Did you ever have that conversation that he talks about with LaTasha? No. Did you ever have that conversation that he talks about with him? No. Did you ever give him the XYZ that he was talking about? >> No. Did you ever give him a pass for LaTasha? No. Did he ever talk to you about further expanding ethical non-monogamy in your relationship? >> No. No. You know, like when do you want to know that there's someone who has my interest, or someone who I would like to pursue? Do you want to know the moment that I feel like it's more than just banter? Uh do you want me to do you want me to do you want to know at the moment that I would like to begin to banter? Um Do you want to know what time I feel like it might be a thing beyond banter? Um or what, you know, because this is kind of new for us, right? Because you know, girlfriend, LaTasha, that's easy. That's been two years. That's been That's been it for the most part. Outside of we going outside of number eight. Um but >> [clears throat] >> it's kind of been easy in that regard. So, we're trying to figure out what does that look like? So, we're just kind of really thinking through where I am right? Where I am in terms of the love and So, so so there's a lot of newness. And I say that just to say that there's still a lot of newness even in this ethical non-monogamy and that's newness. And it's it's fun, right? It's fun, it's interesting, it's causing us to communicate and chat and really talk again about different things that we've kind of in a real sense have been settled to some degree. But we're realizing that in this ethical non-monogamy we got to keep saying in principle and that kind of thing. You know, some things aren't going to come easy, right? There's some hard lessons. But I got to got to be comfortable with how that would look. So, that's why that's why they use the word being sprung and giddy and all that stuff. I think because that those flutters or those emotions, right? Or those initial thoughts are all kind of new and very much new because this person is brand new. Like I don't know Sheree, right? I don't know you. LaTasha, I was giving her some level of familiarity there. And that's typically how I've always engaged right? With some level of familiarity. I I cannot whether being in the same class together in college or something like that. I've never kind of quote unquote cold called anyone. You know if that makes sense cuz I just I'm not I ain't I don't think I'm that guy. So, yeah. Okay. BRB said ethical monogamy is like calling stealing compassionate sharing. >> [laughter] >> Uh Jacqueline said who had this video? I'm assuming I I really got the impression this came from the Marco Polo app. So, if they access the app and he didn't delete the video they just were able to pull some of his stuff he would talk about on there cuz that's the group I got the impression this is the group chat app for the sister wives that were in the group chat including LaTasha. And so, they just pulled videos that they had in the app. That's what I think though. I won't say it like I'm for sure, but I that's what I was assuming. Thanks for coming to my TikTok. Now, I mean how far would we be going downtown? Cuz I'm like there's a lot of [ __ ] hell going on. How close is that room? Like [ __ ] I just need to do better with smoking the house in 5 hours. Did he ever have that conversation with you about when he needed to tell you if if you were wanting to banter with someone or when it would go past banter with someone? No. That never happened? No. Did he ever Did you hear him reference going out of town on his birthday? I thought I heard that. I Did he ever tell you about a recent out of town on his birthday? No. Did you hear him mention the name Sheree? I did hear that. Do you know who Sheree is? I don't believe so. Uh Did y'all ever talk about how ethical non-monogamy could make your relationship better? No. None of that ever happened? No. My nosey behind, I want to know is she remarried? And is her new husband still in ministry? Or a whole different career field? Because I would not get a second husband that was in ministry. There's no way. PTSD all day. Um I'm over here and brother advice at this point and I know Daya, you're on here. Uh Michelle probably doing something else. But so, I wanted to ask talk to y'all about our my new friend, right? The one that keeps getting back to her phone. >> [snorts] >> So, she hit me in today with a boss move boss move in ass that I wanted to hook up next week. After she gets back from being out of town, that threw me the [ __ ] off. Like wow. Like so, my only So, she gets back on Friday. She's like you and me got Friday and Saturday. My only concern is that she is waiting a callback for an interview for a process. And she said it may be next Saturday, right? And I know that she would leave, of course, for that. And even if I'm going to Atlanta, she's about 100 miles away. She would She would ditch me, right? Like I would force her. Thank god. And ditch me, right? But I just don't know if I want to put myself in a situation where potentially we may not be able to hang out in that regard because she got this other stuff that she's worried about. But I am like high-key shocked and like super like flushed about it cuz like it just kind of came out of nowhere. Like we were talking about other stuff and it was like, "Hey, what about?" Like, "Oh, okay. I'm I'm I'm with you." I wouldn't expect to see that while I was in my speech contest. I was just counting stuff up. I'm like I wouldn't do that, but I don't know I don't know what to do. I think a couple of things, right? So, I live in this also this other tension. So, that means furthering the conversation, right? With the wife. Um which she's in a good place about that, I think. I talked to you about it, Daya. I haven't really updated Michelle about it. Just in terms of girlfriends not taking it as well, I guess. But at the end of the day, I told her it's, you know, you got to recognize it's about me, it's not about you. And if that makes sense for my wife to allow me to be open with my girlfriend, has an issue like So, she's kind of chewing on it cuz I think in theory we talked about this this day coming, right? But it's never been a reality, right? So, I think that she's wrestling with the reality. I think that your idea is like your thoughts, uh Daya, yesterday was so like it hit me like a ton of bricks cuz I never thought about it like that. But that makes so much sense. And it's not that I want to be disrespectful, it's not that I don't want to be ethical, but I do wrestle with that. And I I you know, I was just kind of talking to your your perspective about what you saw. I was like, I think that could be what this is in terms of treating this like an infidelity kind of relationship on purpose with permission versus an additional partner scenario. So, I I feel that, but but y'all she asked me to hook up, but uh Um Do y'all remember that movie Wanted with Morgan Freeman, Angelina Jolie, and the guy that now plays the young Professor X, the bullet with curve? Do y'all remember that movie? Just in case you never watched the movie. There's a line in there Morgan Freeman said, "Shoot this MFer." And that's all I can hear every time they play another video that I think it's from this Marco Polo app. I can see how he's not here. That's that's what I can say. I can see how he is no longer on this earth right now. Uh I Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Do y'all think the wife knew? Mary, thank you. That was the other thing. I want I I feel like some people are going to say the wife did agree to a open relationship but doesn't want to maybe admit that now in public. But she didn't do anything to him. She actually tried to protect him from getting shot. So she didn't do anything to him. So she's not like a possible, you know, accomplice or anything. But I knew I know some people are going to wonder if the wife knew any of this or if he talked to her more about open open marriages than she's letting on now. I believe her on this end, but I also could see how she would not want to go into detail on that on the other end. >> [laughter] >> Oh, okay. Hill 75 said, "Yeah, she knew something." Demeter Joe said, "Yep." Okay. Okay. Did Bertice ever talk to you about engaging with a woman in Atlanta? Was he open and honest and transparent [clears throat] about that? No. Um did he or did you uh tell him that you were open to him doing that? No. Had y'all been talking about that day coming where he would further expand to another girlfriend? No. All right. Now he real comfortable. So it seems like there's two to three people in this group because every time he says this, he'll be like he's either talking to someone named D and mentioning uh I think he said Share or something like that. Like, "Oh, Share's not in here, so I'll just tell you, D." And then of course we knew Latasha was in there at one point. So I feel like there was three people in here at this time besides him, but they just, you know, And see that's weird because of Marco Polo, okay, you're on it while you're live apparently cuz he's actively seeing whoever's in there. It's weird to talk I don't know. Like you're just talking to one person like you are having a TED Talk or something. Like I don't know. This is all weird. Uh Jacqueline said she might have known what her husband was into, but wanted no part of it. Okay. And then Hill 75 said, "Women's intuition." I definitely think she knew something was up. And And if he did give her that book, yeah, she knew something was up. I I don't think she agreed to it though. But like she's not going to be participating in it, but yeah, she probably didn't know something was up. Told me we were close. We were We were in Little Rock. She lives in Little Rock. So we ain't that close. I mean, it's only 2 hours away, but I'm so sorry. I got to point this out. This is pre-braces. This is pre-braces because he don't have the braces aren't shining right now and yeah. So timeline-wise, he hasn't gotten to the point of braces yet. Yes, we were in Little Rock. So we were literally that because that was that that point. Um you know, my wife was like, "Yeah, nobody at home. Like this is an exception because that kind of threw you that." But nah, you ain't dealing with nobody at home. Oh, wait. Now I see it. I saw the bottom and a little of the top. So maybe this is early braces instead of no braces. That was Jacksonville. So our our hard no's in no Jacksonville, which is a hometown for us. No exes and no no place in your current city. That's those are the hard those are the hard no's, right? She got an exception because it was there that she realized, "Yeah, I don't think I want to hear who you're dealing with." all these people or these women. And no doubt these women would be in the church cuz that's all we do is hang around or in the community or close enough. So it was kind of one of those things. Was Latasha Daniels an exception to your rules? No. Did you create rules about Jacksonville? No. Did you create rules about exes? No. Did you create rules about the city that you live in? No. Were those hard no's for you? Yeah. No. Uh was any extramarital affair a hard no for you? They were all They were all hard no's for me. And before I could say a word, she hits me with, "I'm sorry." And I'm like, Oh, we're not going to breeze past the women showing up at the bottom of the profile. I I need to know. I'm going back a little bit, y'all, cuz I just want to see they panned up. Hold on. So that must be maybe D. I'm air quoting D cuz I think I heard somebody named D and Share Share or Cheryl. And before I could say a word, she hits me with, "I'm sorry." And I'm like, "Sorry for what?" So then she goes into the whole, "I apologize for betraying your trust, betraying your confidence, and telling you P my balls my balls before about the situation." Her reasoning was that she felt like, "If like you all said, if he could appeal to my quote unquote greater senses, then I would realize the mistake that I would be making by losing such a wonderful woman." She also apologized I said that she apologized to Tabitha. When Tabitha talked, she told me that Tabitha told her that their conversation was their conversation until she revealed it. So she was not going to talk about the contents of which what they discussed. She basically said, "I feel like I know what you're going to tell me." And at this [clears throat] Who is P? Uh he is our friend and former pastor. Is that Philip Pointer? And he was also a pastor at St. Mark's. Correct. Did you know that Pastor Pointer knew about the relationship with Latasha? No. Did Latasha reach out and apologize to you after she threatened to commit suicide? No. Did you ever have a conversation with her about that? No. Throughout all of those videos, very convincing talking about this. Would you agree? I would agree. And none of it was true. No. I want to talk to you about your relationship with Bertice, okay? Okay. Uh you all Y'all were married then uh for about 5 years. How long had you dated people you didn't know? About a year. You were his second wife. Correct. Um and at no point during your relationship with you at least, did he discuss this watchers or dominos? I want to hear from the second uh the first wife as a character witness. I want to know what did she experience. Why did they get divorced? Bertice was a pastor. Correct. In Little Rock, that was at St. Mark's. So that's a big church. Yes. Um did he take trips with the church? Yes. Often? When you say trips, like international trips or Both. International and local. Israel often. Orlando. Uh did he take those with the other pastors? Sometimes. And he also took them sometimes with other church members. Um Like the church groups. I can recall one time maybe a time or two where there was like a a training conference or something like that. And they did the whole church group was for Israel, right? Correct. Okay. Um and when he got the job at Mississippi Boulevard, that's a big deal to be a pastor there, right? I guess. That's a it's a big church here. It's a big church. Um [clears throat] and now I'm direct I I thought you had said that he didn't ever do counseling for St. Mark's. At St. Mark's, but I thought you told the police that he sometimes did. You just didn't know that he counseled Latasha. I've never known him to do counsel. Did he ever tell you that he counseled Latasha? No. But you knew that she ended up getting divorced. >> I did know that. Now, I want to talk to you about Latasha, okay? Okay. Uh you knew her from church, right? Um and that was St. Mark's in Little Rock. Correct. She was a life group leader. Yes. What's a life group leader? Um it's a person that leads a group of people that get together and do Bible study. And that was a group that Broaddus was over, right? >> Correct. Um and before his relationship with Latasha started, this was a tight-knit group, right? >> Yes. He was very involved with that group. Yes. And it was about seven or eight people In that group, there were probably six or seven groups. But in that particular the group that Latasha was in, yeah. Couple of people. And those groups were selected from the whole church membership, right? Based on who showed interest. It wasn't like you want you, you know, people came and showed interest. Yeah. There is thousands of church members at St. Mark's. And that's what I said at the beginning. We're not going to act like he just Tell me tell me, Lord, who who out of these thousands should I pick for life group? It was the people in his face. Uh of course. Like who Stop playing. And I don't know how I don't know what kind of church background the defense attorney has, but no, ma'am. He didn't pick them out of thousands. Sure. And I think what about 40 or 50 people were selected to be life group leaders? I guess. I don't know for sure. And that's okay if you don't know. Uh And you and Latasha were fairly friendly. Yeah. Uh you played tennis once a month for a couple months. Mhm. And then um at some point after Broaddus got the job at Mississippi Boulevard, y'all moved from Little Rock to Memphis. Correct. Um and at no point were you aware of their relationship. No. Were you aware of any issues that Broaddus had had at St. Mark's? No. Y'all moved in October. Correct. And that was April 4th. Correct. Before y'all left, you gave your friends, church members, your new address. >> Yes. Um and there was a party that was thrown for y'all, right? I think so, yeah. Did you know that Latasha organized that party? It wouldn't surprise me to know that. >> [clears throat] >> After you left Little Rock and moved to Memphis, you didn't see Latasha again until April 4th, right? Right. And as far as you knew, neither did Broaddus. Correct. But Broaddus would come back to Memphis for his braces. Right. Why would he come back to Little Rock from Memphis to get his braces done? Because the braces were paid for. But the work wasn't done in his mouth. So just made sense to continue seeing that orthodontist. And so Broaddus would go to Little Rock, but you would stay in Memphis. Now, I want to talk to you specifically about April the 4th, okay? Uh now you were at home that night, you were watching TV. Right. You and your dog, Anakin. >> Yes. Um and around 9:00 or 9:30, you heard a noise, a faint knock. Correct. Ignored it. >> Yeah. And then a couple seconds, minutes later, you heard another slightly louder knock. Yeah. And you and Anakin, the dog, got up to go see what was going on. Right. A third knock or after you said, you know, I'm not going to open this door if I don't see who it is, you saw Latasha through the peephole. >> Yes. Recognized it was her. Yes. Invited her in. Yes. Um she wasn't threatening you. No. She did not have her gun out. >> you? No. You sat or you brought her into the house, right? And y'all sat in the living room. Right. Talked. Right? Yes. Talked about tennis. Yes. Talked about um a work conference. Right? Yes. And just chatted. Yes. She seemed happy to be there. Yeah. She seemed happy to be talking to you. Yes. Um at no point while y'all were sitting alone in the apartment were she threatening to you. No. She never tried to harm you. No. Um and she was seated, if I'm not mistaken, on a couch, right? >> Right. Um Actually Here in Memphis, Little Rock. Yes. How about that you recognize that? Yes. What is that? That's my apartment in Little Rock. Uh your honor, I'd ask that you make the next number exhibit. Any objection? It's the living room. Any objection from the state? No, there isn't, your honor. All right, we'll show the photo of the living room as exhibit two. Yes. How about this this picture of the living room at your apartment? >> Yes. Where were you seated speaking to Latasha? I would I would have been seated um on the left end of the sofa. So Oh, I got you. I think we'll work with the screen something. So like here? Yes. Okay. And where was Latasha? On the opposite end. About here? Right. >> Next to these other chairs. Yes. Broaddus was not home yet, right? Right. Uh he had gone to Pastor Poyner's to run an errand. No, when he got off >> Pastor Turner. Right. Well, he he got off work, he went to the cigar bar. And then from the cigar bar, he told me he had to go drop something off at Jason's house, so he went and dropped something off and then he came home. He likes to go first. Yes. And that Thursday nights, he'd go to the cigar bar, right? More than Thursday nights, but yeah. >> But that was one of his nights, right? >> Okay. Um so you texted him when Latasha was there, didn't tell him that she was there, but texted him and just said, this is strange. >> Yeah. Uh and you said that it seemed a little odd, but she was happy to be there, happy to be talking to you. Yes. Up to this point on April the 4th of 2019, Broaddus had never told you that he'd been cheating outside of your marriage, cheating on you. No. And you had never sanctioned that. No. He never told you that he'd been involved in a two-year relationship with Latasha. No. He never told you that y'all would be sister wives. No. He never told you that he promised Latasha that he would tell you. No. Did he tell you that he [snorts] saw Latasha earlier that night before she came to your apartment? He did not. Did he tell you after he got there that he had seen Latasha earlier that night at the cigar lounge? No. He acted like he had no idea she was even in town when he walked in that door, right? Correct. And if he had seen her at that cigar lounge earlier that night, that would not have been truthful. Right? Correct. I want to talk to you about while you and Latasha were talking, okay? Mhm. She never threatened you. Right. No. Was never cross with you. No. Um and she engaged with you cordially. Yes. Seemed genuinely happy to be there. Yes. Now, I want to talk to you about when Broaddus arrived home, okay? Can you describe his demeanor when he walked in? Um Agitated. Did he immediately come in and and offer the bourbon? No, not immediately. Okay. What When did that happen? I would say once he kind of settled in, he he had bags, he had things with him, so he set those down, told me he had brought me these aminos. Um you know, he made the statement about this is an uninvited guest. And then I think that's when he started saying, you know, what are you doing here, where are you staying, that whole bit. And at some point around there is when he offered um does anybody want to drink? After he made the drinks he also sat down, right? Yes. And when we're looking at exhibit two Broaddus sat in this chair? I can't remember which chair he sat in to be honest. >> That's okay. One of those chairs. And while he was seated in one of these chairs Latasha was still seated here? Yes. Were you still seated over here? Yes. Broaddus made himself a drink. Yes. And he made Latasha a drink. Right? Um and you didn't want a drink. Right. You had some champagne earlier in the night and you were you were done. Right, yes. Um When Broaddus was talking to Latasha about, you know, why she was here, what she was doing He was kind of making small talk with her, right? It was I guess you can call it that. It was like um badgering almost. Yeah. He still seemed agitated? Yeah. At some point did you notice that he kind of stopped talking to Latasha when he started engaging with you? I didn't. Your honor, may I approach the witness? Yes. Uh your honor, I have a transcript of her statement. I previously provided a copy to the state, but I have a bound copy. And I'll provide it for ease of reference. Could you look at page eight for me? Lines eight through 17. Okay. And just read those for me and let me know. Which what line is 18? I'm sorry. It's not numbered. >> May I approach Yes. It should be it's just hard to see. Oh, okay. Okay, I'm going to highlight here. Sorry. Okay, I'm sorry. Here. Okay. And then >> [cough] [clears throat] >> just down a couple lines. Okay, so it says oh, you don't have to read it. Just read it to yourself. >> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Okay. Do you remember telling the police that he kind of stopped talking to her and started engaging only with you? I don't, but if it's here You don't dispute that that's >> I know, I won't dispute it. Okay. You can just read that to yourself. Okay. Thank you. Was that normal behavior for him as a guest? I would say that it was normal for behavior for him with his life group leaders. Um it was not unusual for him to talk kind of rough to them and just I would often say I don't know why y'all put up with him. Um but it was usually just that's just him that's just him, you know, kind of a good fun kind of way of roughhousing so to speak. Um so I always found it kind of cringey, but it was not unusual. Okay. I want to talk to you now about when Latasha said that she was going to go ahead and go. Okay. Um she basically said I'm not going to keep you guys, right? And everybody stood up. And you led the way to the door. Right. Latasha was behind you. Correct. And Broaddus was behind her. Yes. And you got all the way outside, right? I mean to the stairs of the apartment complex. >> Right. And Latasha and Broaddus were still back towards the apartment. Right. Latasha right outside the door, Broaddus in the door. Right. Did you hear her ask him to walk her to her car? No. Uh when they were over there and you were at the stairs they were kind of had had their own thing going on over there while you were trying to walk on out, right? I don't know because my back was turned, so Right. you know, it wasn't until I turned around I realized they weren't right, you know, behind me. Um and you I mean you were telling her just don't speed, be careful, you know, if you had something to drink. Right. Right. You had no idea what was going on behind you. No. So then I want to talk to you about when you turned around and saw Latasha, okay? Mhm. Um she was still at the door of your apartment. Well, she was out from the door, yeah. Um and that's your door is right next to your neighbor's door, right? >> No, it's across the hall. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Um so she is standing right outside the door, Broaddus is standing in the door frame. Mhm. So she was closer to Broaddus than you were. Yes. Do you remember how far away you were? So from our front door to the stairs might be from here to the beginning of this green partition. So it's not we're not very far from >> Here to stairs, yes. So if this is the front door, those are the stairs. Okay, so >> So if I'm there Broaddus is here, she's maybe here. So it's like, you know, equal space between all three of us. It's not a lot of space. >> 12 ft? I don't know. >> [snorts] >> I don't know. I'm not good at guessing either. Somewhere 10 to 12 ft maybe, 10 to 15 ft? Does that look like a good guess to you? This looks good to me. So you don't know. That's fine. That's fine. I can move on. I will sustain the objection. Uh Latasha was facing Broaddus. Yeah. I'm I'm good. >> Yeah. And you saw her reach into her pocket. Right? Yes. And this was as y'all were walking out to her car. This is still upstairs. Right, but that that was the direction that Correct. Okay. And when you saw her reach into her pocket you saw her pull out a gun. >> Now prior to that moment had you ever seen a gun? No. Prior to that moment had she seemed to be a threat No. Prior to that moment did you think you were in harm's way being with her? No. She started firing Yes. towards Broaddus. Correct. You were in the opposite direction. Right? I was behind them, yes. Uh and you ran to your apartment or your neighbor's apartment. Right. Right. Right. Um so you were you weren't even in the apartment when the shots stopped. No, I was still outside the apartment. When y'all were in the apartment, the three of you, was the door closed? After the shots were fired? Before. >> Oh, before. Yeah, the door was closed before. Could anyone see into your apartment? No. With the door closed. No. It was cracked. Right. No one else other than the three of you was in the apartment. Correct. Uh after the door gets open you go outside you're visible to everyone else in the apartment complex who could see where y'all were, right? You became visible outside of your apartment. Not really, no. So if your neighbor had opened the door >> Yeah, if my neighbor across the hall had opened the door, sure. They could see Latasha standing. Mhm. They could see Broaddus standing in the door. Mhm. Nothing happened until after that was already out in more public area than y'all had been before, right? Right. You at some point lunged for Broaddus, right? Yes. And tried to shield him. Well, this was af- after the shooting had occurred, yeah. Once you we were back in the apartment by then. Um prior to that point, prior to you trying to shield him, she had not fired any shots at you, right? No. Um and when you got shot, did you realize it? Yes. Did you grab your shoulder? Uh yeah, the bullet, you know, the bullet moved me. The the shot threw me. Yeah. And you were right against Broaddus at that point, too, right? Until I got shot, right. And then you said Tasha, you shot me. Mhm. What did she say back to you? Something to the effect of I didn't mean to. And then you told her basically to go, leave. Yeah, just get out of here. >> Just get out of here. I won't tell them it was you, just go. Mhm. Correct. She didn't move. No. And at some point you could hear the sirens coming. Yes. And Latasha still had the gun. Right. She never put down the gun. No. And when the police came up they had their guns drawn. Correct. And she still didn't put down the gun. Correct. And in fact, she pointed the gun at her own son. Yes. Towards her mouth. Yes. Towards her head. Yes. Against her chest. Yes. And the police were trying to talk to her to to get her to put the gun down. Right. And she wasn't really interacting with She was talking back. You know. Like no. >> at that point? Probably. I don't remember. Do you remember her saying what have I done? No. Ma'am, approach the bench. Yes. If you could just read right here. Right here? Right here, this paragraph. You don't have to read it out loud, just give yourself a minute. Oh, okay. Did you tell the police that she said oh, what have I done? Yeah, it appears that I did. And this was taken the day that that next morning after this happened, right? Correct. Just want to give cuz I know people stream in and out. Just want to give the timeline that Well, first of all, this is the wife on the stand. She was a victim of being shot as well as her husband was shot and killed. Her husband was the pastor that was having an affair with the defendant that's on trial. It is It has been 6 years since the actual crime was committed. The The crime was committed April 4th, 2019. They started their trial November November 4th, 2025. I think so. I think it's November 4th, 2025. So, it's been 6 years. So, with the ring on her hand, I've been wondering, did she get remarried? Um and also I hope her husband isn't in any ministry. And I also feel like that's why she doesn't sound as traumatized because and how she's not going to remember before she rereads her statement some things that she might have known in detail when it actually happened. 6 years is a long time. Then you're grieving. Then you're trying to come to terms with the stuff that's coming up about your husband that you may not have known. But maybe you had a gut feeling about but didn't know know. Um playing tennis with this woman and then find out, you know, she's messing with your husband and stuff. So, it's a lot going on, but yeah. All right. One of the main things that you heard LaTasha saying during this was that he broke all the Ten Commandments. Right. And that was the main thing that she said to you. Yeah. The gunshot wound that you suffered Mhm. you went to the hospital. Yes. Um you were there for a couple hours, right? Yes. And you got released. Yes. You left the hospital. Yes. A couple hours later you got a phone call. Right? From to come back to the hospital. No. No, the surgeon and the chaplain didn't call you to come back. No. I was still there when they told me that he died. Okay. So, you left and came back. I didn't I never left. I never left. I was there all night. Ma'am, approach the Yes. If you could just read right there. Start here, just the bottom of the page. Oh, no, this isn't the detective saying. This is when he left. Keep reading then. Okay. I'll go I'll go back a little bit. Yeah, that's wrong. That's wrong cuz I didn't the phone was open when I was at the hospital. Okay. So, that's just Yeah, that's just wrong. And this was a stressful night, right? A very traumatic event. Yeah. Um and you had no idea why any of this happened. Right. But eventually you were told that the person was a pastor, right? Correct. You went and gave a statement that next day with Carver police. Right. Pastor Pointer and Pastor Turner came with you. Right. Did you ask them to come with you? They're the only people that could have come because I did not know a soul in Memphis. So, when everything happened uh I didn't I didn't know anybody's phone number. So, they called Pastor Turner. Um they went through hoops to get in touch with him. He and his wife showed up. He called Pastor Pointer that morning. He drove over from Little Rock. So, there was really nobody else that could have come. >> And they actually came into the interview room with you, right? >> Yeah. And while you were talking to police the police were saying, do you know why this happened? Mhm. Right? Mhm. And you have to say yes or no for the recording. Um and the you and the police both talked about why. Right. Nobody understands why. Right. Did Pastor Pointer ever say, actually I know that they were in a relationship? No. Did he ever tell you that before you went in? Objection. That's hearsay. I don't know what the purpose of it is. Your Honor, it's not being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. It's being offered to show whether or not he provided that information. What's your approach? All right, they had a little sidebar. They had it for a little bit, too. Let's see from Okay, 5 6 minutes. Okay, we're going back. Oh, they had a break. And then we have going back to the judge. I need to swear in uh I'll swear her in. Do you swear or affirm Do you solemnly swear or affirm that you will take charge of this jury, that you will keep them separate and apart from all persons, that you will not allow them to communicate in any manner with anyone or anyone with them, and if it concerns the man on trial nor with you nor you with them, and that you will deliver them safely into court, so help you God? I do. Okay. Thank you. All right. Um If Was she swearing in the uh foreman? Is that what they call the uh foreman on the jury? If she was, I would not take that charge. I'd be like, I can't control grown people. Y'all need to pick somebody [laughter] else. I'm going to call the jury back in and give them some admonitions and then we'll start back in the morning at 9:30. Yes. Well, and so I'm just and we've talked a little bit about this. I've got the next three witnesses are Carver police officers, which are easy to to get back and forth. But the three after that, particularly the two after that, one's coming from Arkansas. Based on our progress thus far, I'm not confident we will get to the fourth witness tomorrow. And I hate for him to have to come from Arkansas 2 and 1/2 hours, go back to Arkansas 2 and 1/2 hours, and come back the next morning. Um and I sure don't think we'll get to five. But sure as I say that, we'll be sitting here 2:00 and we'll be out of proof. Um So, I guess what I'm asking the court is would you be okay if I have the three Carver police officers here and the guy from Arkansas. If it looks like we're going to run out of time, I'll take the guy from Arkansas out of order. But I'm not going to ask TV out from Nashville to come tomorrow. If we get through those four, we'll be down to two Thursday morning for me that I think are pretty short. And if we run out of time, it's on me that I didn't want to run out of time. I didn't If we finish earlier, it's on me that I didn't want you to look at me like why are you not having your witnesses here? Okay, that's fine. Okay. We have no objection to taking that witness out of order. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. Okay. All right. Um I'm going to call the jury in and I'm going to give them some uh admonitions and then we'll reconvene for tomorrow. So, if you could get the jury in. >> Yes, ma'am. I know she didn't mean to, but that was a crazy pun to use just now. You're going to give them some ammunition. Crazy pun right now.