Can't stop, won't stop. What does it mean? It means I can't stop crime and I won't stop crime. I've made too much money from it. Even though I've done a lot of time in prison, it's tattooed on my body and my product of the system, I suppose you could say. So, if you see this face, run. So, police, open the door, please. Everybody involved in the criminal justice system knows how acute the crisis is. I don't think the public see prison officers as people who are really brave every day. It's a chance to cut this cycle of being released, no further address, drug use, crime, back in prison. I'm fighting against the system. I'm fighting for my life. [Music] Oh, thank you. Morning, Paul. Yeah, good, thank you. You? Yeah, thank you. Appreciate I think there was some real anxieties yesterday that were fed back to me. I absolutely get those anxieties. The one thing we can't do is then just keep locking up and locking up and locking up because we'll just create more difficulties. It was difficult, but it settled down. And the the less we give people, the poorer their behavior becomes. But we will not put people in a position where they're unsafe. I absolutely will not do that. For the 2 years I've been here, what I've been talking about is keeping it safe. So, I really, really, really just want people to go away >> I'd always worked in newish prisons and found it was easier to affect cultural change, it was easier to affect rehabilitation. >> I spoke to a member of staff who didn't feel able to bring that up on on Wednesday. I do think culturally we've got a long way to go. Stephanie Roberts Bibby has been the governor of Winchester prison for 2 years. Her biggest challenges are the dramatic increase in staff resignations, soaring levels of self-harm, drugs, and the rise in violence amongst the prisoners. People might say, you know, you've had a period of disorder, give them nothing. Give them nothing. Make, you know, that that's what they deserve. They're being vile. And some of the behavior that I know you have seen is vile. [Applause] However, keeping people locked up even more does not change behavior. It increases risk. Makes it more unsafe when you do have to unlock people, and you do have to unlock people. Yeah, we're all in in this together and managing the risks as best we can. Let's try to keep the regime normal, keep making sure we're meeting the needs. All right, I'm really grateful for people's hard work uh this week. So, I really, really, really just want people to go away feeling and being confident in what they're doing because the more confident you are, um the men will pick up on that. All right, super. Thank you very much, everyone. [Music] Having you here filming, I feel quite anxious about the reality of what people will see. But I'm hoping the nervousness will be offset by the bigger gains around the insight in what actually happens in our justice system. In December 2017, the prison service placed Winchester in special measures after it was described as understaffed and dilapidated. >> Look at the state of it, mate. It's disgusting. Cells are manky. There's food splattered all over the walls, splattered up the walls. You want to live in that? Do you want to live in that? Those moves need to then be dealt with. Got to go to I got it. Steph's task is to bring the prison up to the required standard for an upcoming visit from the Ministry of Justice. Despite staff shortages and limited resources, she must reduce the violent offenses and address the prison's prolific drug problem. Spice is just flowing through the jail. It's all chemicals, cockroach killer, anal wipe and acetone all mixed together. The whole lot's put on a bit of paper, and people smoke it and get off their nut. And it's it's becoming the norm around here, and it doesn't stop. No matter how they try, they can't stop it. We are seeing an increase in people who have uncontrollable violence, normally that's drug related. [Music] It's really difficult for us to stay on top of spice components changing the market each week. Trying to retrain your dogs to respond to that is difficult. Clearly men are under the influence of spice. We have had a number of instances where our staff have been affected. Some unusual behavior, being sick, and sort of palpitations. That's probably 90% of our problems. When spice first came out, we had people gouging their eyes out, we've had people jumping off off balconies, off off off the landings in onto the netting headfirst. And there's been a number of deaths around the establishment. The dogs here at night? Yeah, they're out front. Oh, are they? Tonight we've got eight regional dog handlers coming in, and we've picked about seven cells. They're intelligence-led searches, so we've got the analyst to look at who they think is supplying. All right, firstly, I want to thank everyone for coming in tonight. We've had a lot of intel and a lot of incidents just recently with a lot of these guys under the influence, so we've got to sort of make some sort of reaction, disrupt it as much as we can. A lot of the stuff we're looking for is uh the paper that comes in impregnated. So, I think if we go on mass onto C wing, C wing's been quite spicy, so I imagine we'll get we'll get a bit of grief when we open the doors. Let's be robust. Any sudden movements, they're trying to plug anything, then we take the appropriate action. I'll then tell you guys, but I'm happy for that. That needs to That needs to happen. They need to know that we're going in there and we mean business. [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] Just wait there. All right, fella, do as you're told, all right? I'm telling you now. Just get in there, mate. Hey, don't touch me. Just get in there. [Music] He's non-compliant, so he's on a restraint cuff. Okay. Is that It's stuffed down the toilet. Oh, was it? Anything so? Yeah, he's got um spice with tobacco on top here. Where was that? Links roll-on bottle. Who's that? Stuffed in his mouth. That is where he's been hiding stuff, so. I picked up the biscuits and I opened it up. It's got a hole right in the middle, which he's obviously really been stashing them in before. Now, you try as hard as you can, and you'll be back in 2 weeks later doing the same guys, taking the same stuff out, so. It's a constant game. So, there was something up his backside. Are you impressed with how quick they can plug something? Yeah. They practice, I'd imagine. People come in packed up with drugs, visits, throw-overs, drones. We're swimming against the tide all the time. They could never stop the weed, you get me? Obviously, you're going to find a way around the system, innit? Three wraps, smoking para, unknown green substance. If that is spice, then there's a hell of a lot in there. We're just trying to make a living. So, by locking people up, yeah? You're not doing anything. You've got a person that's saying, "All right, you've got a job when you get out. You're going into this house in this town." You know, it's a recurring cycle. But when you go outside, they don't give a [ __ ] about you. You see what I'm saying? Why have we got the highest rate of reoffending in all of Europe, man? 60% of prisoners are all here with licenses revoked. One in two going to come back to jail. It's just a [ __ ] up system, and it's always going to be like that because them politicians and them are a bunch of wankers. [Music] There, there, there, there. >> You can see here where the liquid has actually damaged the paper. Everyone wants it to be 100%. That's what we aim for. The issue is as soon as we put a counter measure in the guys who are trying to get the stuff in will work their way around our existing systems. H Hi, Spike. Good afternoon, my man. Today I received and this is allspice paper. How do you know it's spice? >> It's got all the colors on it. So, I know that's spice. I know that one's spice with a green. I know that one's spice because of of its emblem. So, I've just received 1 2 3 4 sheets of paper of allspice. How much is that potentially worth? This now? £2,000 just there. Just on that is £2,000. To some people, it can make you go absolutely nuts. It make you make you go scatty. Make you want to kill people. Make you want to fight the world. With me, it's got the complete opposite effect. It just chills me out. Mellows me. It's like I've smoked a joint. If If you have sleeping, this is how I see it. If I was sleeping 9 hours every day and I'm off my head for 9 hours every day. You're only doing >> I'm only realistically doing what, 6 hours in prison? That's it. So, this is a vape pen. So, I take that tiny bit of paper inside that. I think we have that smell there. And that? And that's spice. That's decent. [Music] There's just no way with the resources that we can stop all of it. We're not naive as to think that. I'd like more officers to search. I'd like more officers to go through the mail. That would help, but you know, it wouldn't solve everything. We're stretched. We're fully stretched. Keep your head down. I was here in 2010 when all the cuts came in, right? And the change was unbelievable. The prison officers can't run the prisons properly now. Do you know what I mean? They can't have any kind of authority. It's just a joke. This whole place is a joke now. Everybody knows this government is undertaking a program of spending cuts. But do we have to cut now and by this much? Is there another way? I wish there was another way. [Applause] Following the financial crash of 2008 Britain entered an era of austerity. To eliminate the deficit requires a further £25 billion of permanent public expenditure savings. The prison service was hit hard. Since 2011, £410 million has been taken out of the system. This meant the loss of over 7,000 prison officers. People genuinely don't care about prisons. The voting public, if they have to make a decision about where their money goes straight away they're not going to think, actually, I'm going to put I think we should put money into prisons. There are a quarter fewer prison officers. Those cuts were a mistake, weren't they? You're right that there are serious problems, which is why we've brought in 2,500 extra prison officers. [Music] You can't lose 7 and 1/2 thousand prison officers with a lot of experience and then try and replace them with 2 and 1/2 thousand straight out of the training school. We're going to start opening both wings. Both wings, yeah. All right. For food, yeah. Same food, yeah, mate. How long have you been doing this job for? 4 weeks. I did 10 weeks training. 2 weeks of shadowing. Go on to that. [Applause] Is it all right? Is it all right? No staff went All right. So, they said just hold fire. [Applause] Shouldn't have went. Shouldn't shouldn't run. Um Alarm bell went off on A wing. What is going on? What's happening on A? No idea. I said no idea. It's just normal. It's a normal day. I believe I'm the youngest officer at the moment. I'm 21. They're now realizing they need more staff, so they've just hired loads in. There's quite a few young officers around. A lot of inexperienced officers around. I find myself on wings often with officers with less than a year's experience. We have got a high number of newer, younger staff. Probably 90% are under 25. Which is a challenge. You know, this is a challenging job. Stressful and there are times where I go home and I'm talking to my mom and dad and I just want to cry. And it should and actually this is God's honest truth. My mom and dad can see that and it's a little bit They're They're worried and um [Applause] A lot of the young staff, probably 2 months ago were stacking shelves in Asda. And then they come from that into this, you know? And when I go home, when you tell your wife all the things that you've witnessed, some people wouldn't witness that in their whole lifetime. Last year in England and Wales, there was an assault on a prison officer every hour of every day. What was it? What was it about? Do you know? I enjoy my job. I just got a good rapport with some of the people. Please put some shoes on. I'm up front with them. I don't tell them lies. If I say I'm going to do something, then I'm going to do it. You know the problem, I know the problem. I need you to go behind your door when we call all the way. That's That's That's my end of the deal. Do you know what? For you, Molly, I'll go behind my door, all right. All right. Thank you very much. I know what they like. I know what they don't like. I know when their mental health is deteriorating. I can talk to anyone. I can talk to any of these people and well, I can try and sort out some of these problems. Once you've done the search, I'll make sure that it's sorted out, all right? Thank you very much. Thank you. Since I've been here in the 2 years I must have seen 50 or 60% of all the screws in here have left and then been changed over, then left again. So, then in the end, you've got new screws teaching new screws. Do you know what I mean? No one knows what they're doing. The left hand don't know what the right hand's doing. I think we had more of an impact on reoffending and victims when we could offer better services. Certainly for me, the prisons felt more stable. The loss of experience I think was quite significant. Simultaneous to that, changes to community services, the creation of a new national probation service, very different way of working in terms of offender management. I think for the system was very, very challenging. When do I come back for the other one? Next one, come down at 4:00. All right. Tom Eaton is an emergency care practitioner at Winchester. Okay, mate. I can't give you this morning cuz it's time specific. He's been at the prison for 2 years. But I still can't legally give it to you. Get down. What the [ __ ] going on there? Can you start getting people away, miss, please? Gents, come on. You know the drill. [Applause] What's going on? Uh so, one of the patients has been found hanging in his cell. And so, we're just going to bring him down into the health care treatment room where it's a bit quieter uh for him cuz he's struggling struggling with all the noises he's hearing at the week. So, we're just going to go down. Hey. [Music] You wanted a radio? You went to this length for that? All right, well, we can have a look at that. Yeah. I can't have you smashing up any more cells. Just give me a radio and I'll shut the [ __ ] up. Tom is one of two medics and five nurses serving 690 offenders. How many hangings have you seen? Ooh. How many I've seen and been involved with? Um 50s, 60. But actual hangings where the patient is deceased, probably a good 15, 20. I've got the floor permission to leave the What can I do? Police and prosecution. Okay. What was he? When I first started this job, I had no idea whatsoever what went on behind these four walls. Every day I'm seeing things that I never even imagined would happen. I'll tell you what. Come on in. The name's Mr. Bowen. It's definitely opened my eyes up and it is like a whole different world when I come in here. If you work in A&E and you save people's lives on a daily basis, you are a hero. If you cut a man down here, who who celebrates it? People aren't really interested in prison officers. [Music] Oh, you bastard. Yeah. He's potted a member of staff as assistance has gone. There's obviously pee and poo flying everywhere. Prisoners often attack by doing what is known as potting. An act where feces and urine are thrown at the victim. That's another potting from him there. 1 2 3 4 That's four this month. He'd done two in one day. On one of them, he hit 10 officers. Yeah. Go on then. Take some quick pictures of your face. [Music] Okay, mate. So first of all, you got one of your face cuz you got red eyes here, buddy. Yeah. Considering I've not been here long enough to cause a problem, I don't understand it. Did he hit your face? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of prisoners on the main are violent individuals and just talking to them is a stressful thing and trying to begin rehabilitating them is not going to happen. It's too hard. All right. Now we have some on your back as well there and you've got some stuff there as well, okay? We need to get to a stage where discipline is paramount. I've been in the job 27 years. The last 2 years are probably the worst I've ever seen. Public have got no idea of what our staff go through every day. You can't get paid enough for that, can you? You know, what price do you put on being assaulted and having [ __ ] and piss thrown over you every day. Yeah. See you later, mate. I'm worried. I honestly don't know what to do with myself. I'm going to blame my job. Let's crack him up. After the assault on officer Dan Bailey, the prison have decided to move the offender on. Prison should be about rehabilitation, but first and foremost it's what to be safe. If a member of staff is being assaulted, we may move someone, but that is only if we thought we wouldn't be able to move and progress forward with the relationship with those individuals. [Music] When you come and do this job, you don't think I'm going to come in and get assaulted, punched in the face for £21,000 a year before tax. When I started, I wanted to work up the ranks and maybe become governor, but it's just got to the point where been a bit disheartened by all. Thanks for waiting. You were very early. I know. I like being early, you see. I know you do, Moll. Keeno Beano. So I didn't know you'd resigned. Yeah, I handed my notice in on the 19th. Yeah, till yesterday morning. Yes. So I'm really sad. Yes. If we were to put a whole sort of resilience package around you, would you reconsider? Cuz we need good people like you. We need rehabilitated people like you. We need people with your energy. Well, as as well and good, but it's come a bit too late for me. Um just because to one, our conversations that we had, the stress and and the fact that it is a challenging environment, it's hard. >> Yeah. And this new job has offered me a lot more money for what I am on now. Okay. It just ground me down to the point where I thought I need to leave for my own sanity and also for my colleagues because there's points where I have walked off the wing because it's got too much. And you can't have that in a job like this. I think it's best for me now to leave the prison service. It's been an absolute joy having you on the team. Thank you very much. Pleasure. Pleasure working with you, Moll. Good luck. Stay in touch, won't Yeah. Yeah. See you later. Molly, it's a real shame. I'll miss you. I think if you're not seeing people changing, the environment changing, it can feel soul-destroying. I understand why this prison isn't performing. And I know what we need to put it right. Experienced leadership, investment in the buildings, creating a community and one which is rehabilitative. It sometimes feels challenging to have that being heard. But we've really got to try and keep people like Mollie here because if we don't, we will never turn the ship. WHAT WE JUST WHAT WE JUST DONE? 99% of people in prison will come back into our communities and will be our next door neighbors. And will work with us, we would hope. So we've got to help people change their lives. Winchester prison has been in special measures since December 2017. Just want to come in for a minute. We clearly haven't got you any paint, have we? Are you happy You're happy to paint it if I get you paint? Fine. I promise you. Okay, but your inmate wants to paint it cuz I expect us all to live in and work in a clean environment and I do expect you to be involved in that. See you later. Take care. The governor is preparing for a visit from the executive director of prisons in the south. On Monday, she's really, really important visitor. Um it's I think the main the main focus is decency. So that's all around cleanliness and uh what we give to the men in terms of a decent regime. Room is really good. Super good. Thank you. Have you done this yourself? Yeah, yeah. Brilliant. Really good. What's your toilet like? Like lime scaly, isn't it? >> Yeah, but it's just a prison, isn't it? But if it was a brand new toilet, it'd be perfect. >> I know, but it's been there a long time. That's years of wear that. If I If I smashed it off and got a new one. >> You won't, yeah. No, I'll do that. You won't do that. I won't do that. Good. Brilliant. Mr. Chamberlain, while you're waiting for the phone and waiting to collect through, if you just start picking stuff up, that would be really helpful. Thank you. I'd be grateful. Thank you very much. She will ask people questions. What's it like here? What do you find that works? Um what's the best bit about working here and then what the challenges are. She's going to be with us from about 10:00 through till 3:00, so a reasonable stint of the day. Um we think we've got a bit of free rein about where she'll go. She'll definitely go on all the main wings. I think we'll take her down to the seg um and then in some of the activity areas. Um if there's anything anyone really wants to Michelle Dormann House is our executive director. So she's responsible for all the prisons in the south. She's visiting more frequently than I suspect she is other prisons because of our special measures status and want to make sure that we're continuing to make progress. We're not at the moment. We're probably just holding, if anything. Perhaps some areas may have regressed. But you can't constantly think this is terrible. You have to focus on the good. Hotel 6 from Hotel Steven. Because otherwise, you would destroy yourself. Catlin. Yeah, just come in to see him. Prison medic Tom is visiting regular self-harmer Steven Catlin. All right. Steven has been on the healthcare wing for nearly 2 months. All right. Let me have a look at your arm quick. What have you done that with? A knife. What's that? A knife, isn't it? Turn over. Turn around, mate. Any other one? Huh? Give me that. Oi. If you want me to [ __ ] help you, put it on there. I know you do. You want me to suck something up and blow up and spit in your mouth? Are you going to give it to me? Don't eat it. You know I can't [ __ ] come in there while you've got that. Quite often, Mr. Catlin, when he gets frustrated, he vents. Self-harming happens all the time. I can't stop him from doing it. I can try and prevent it, but if that's the way he relieves his stress, that's the way he relieves his stress. All right. Mr. Catlin's going to open the door for us in There you go. Go on. Sit down. We don't need any more of this [ __ ] Catlin, you get stressed over the the littlest of things. So, that's the first number one thing that we need to sort out, isn't it? What? When things [ __ ] you off, you need to deal with it differently than what you're doing now. It's not easy, mate. I wouldn't be a governor, would I? I know. I know I'm I'm not saying that it's easy. I will speak to whoever about what's going on with you, whether you can go to one of the workshops or whatever. It's stressing me out. I think I'm [ __ ] mental, mate. You shouldn't go like that. It's not good for changes. You want prick All right. See you in a bit. I started in 2010. I'm 8 years in. When I first started, I really thought that I would be able to make a career of this and I'd be able to stay for a long time, but the pressures and how much it's changing, I'm I'm starting to think, you know what, I don't think I can make this a long career. Definitely with a blade or something. Yeah. Especially if if the prison service continues how it is, where it's slowly declining and it's becoming more unsafe. Assaults on staff is through the roof. I don't want to be risking that. I want to go home. [Music] I would say another 10 years tops and that would be me. I'll be done. There are a couple of bits I just want to mention. Um firstly, everyone knows Michelle Jarman-Howe is in today. Um sent around over the weekend the timetable of where she's going to go. She will be particularly interested in decency and safety. So, we'll be asking you, um what do we do around those areas? What do we do to keep the rooms clean? But also, what do we do to make sure the men and yourselves are safe? We need to get some um It's all your metal work, isn't it? That looks You can see that on all the frames and stuff when you go around and stuff. It just makes it look um like a like yeah, like a ship that's sinking, frankly. Is that coming off there? That Yeah, that's That's water's got in onto the RSJ. It's blown the the plaster. Good lord, look at that. I tend to come into establishments, particularly those that are more challenging, so Winchester would count as one of those. But it's not necessarily come into the establishment and talk to staff, talk to prisoners, talk to the senior team really, that you get a sort of sense of it. How long have you worked here then? Just over a year. Yeah, how have you found your first year? Yeah? Busy. Busy? Yeah, a lot to learn. Have you felt safe in your first year? We do get some aggressive people, but you can normally manage it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, welcome to the service, ladies. Glad to have had a good first year and that we're looking after you. All right, thank you. So, um real potential. It's just the kind of lack of care, isn't it really, just in terms of kind of getting up to the standard that it could be. There's definitely a smell of something up here. Of what? You're not vaping on the spur, are you, mate? No. Good man, excellent, pleased to hear it. We're trying to work out where that strong smell of smoke and drugs is coming from. We can't quite nail it down. What's this we've got up in here then? What's up? Policy on soft porn being up there? Just been seeing the prisoners today, having a wander around, seeing how things are. Really? Why are things terrible? [Music] How are you finding on here at the moment? Yeah, all right. So, all right. Have you been a while? Yeah, 8 months. It's been repainted, hasn't it? Did you do that? No, we had to move out for a few days when they were painting. The decorators come So, we've got to have them somewhere. [Music] Hello there. Hi. How are you doing? You all right? Yeah, who are you? My name's Michelle from the prison service. I'm just having a wander around. Do you want me to tell you all about this place? You can if you want to. >> This place is a dive. Is it? Yeah. How long have you been down in the segregation? I've been down there 9 months. I've gone on here when That's what I'm On on Wednesday, let's have a plan to re-start to try to integrate you into some normal activity like the gym. It's a good starting point, isn't it? Yeah? It's a long time to spend down here. >> It is, that's why No, I know, but it's not good for you, mate. It's not good for you at all, is it? [Music] It is appalling. People living in the conditions, but not just the men living in conditions, but some of the staff living in conditions. I get there's not money for capital investments in prisons. It's not just about the money though. There are things we can do more. I mean, you can seriously imagine coming into prison and you're going there. There are so many things outside of my control that makes it sometimes feel like this feels a bit impossible. And I think I've started to question, am I making sufficient progress in this prison? Okay, how do people think Michelle's visit went? Mixed. Mixed, yeah. It was uncomfortable, wasn't it? >> It was. The real bit that I think she continues to have concerns about is the quality of the the environment for the men, you know, and she described, you know, sleeping in some of those rooms would break her heart, is how she described it. We've got to get on top of that. You know, that's not difficult stuff. I I just think people might feel more invigorated if the environment was better. If it was cleaner, cuz certainly our staff are reflecting when they come to site, they're horrified. Now, I very clearly specified my expectations of a room. I'm not and this isn't a blame. I'm not sure how far that's been cascaded. If you see something's not right, then do something about it. And it's about how do we then push that to our staff who might not know. So, so, was interesting. Not in a good way. The chap who was there and he'd had this sign on his door. Dangerous animal. So, I said to the officer, who we should never have working down there, cuz he's new and um not the right person, "Can you take that off, please?" He took it off. "I'll give it to you later when the governor's gone." That's what he said out loud? So, but that officer thought that was absolutely the right thing to say. So, there's this bit about leadership uh with particularly with our new people who might not know any different. And Michelle's point around setting the tone of what is rehabilitation is really, really important. So, I do want people to be realistic about when they're going to get stuff done, but we have got to get stuff done. I am disappointed with progress. I'm working on making it safer. And I'm working on making sure that, you know, we've got strong, capable, confident leadership. [Music] I can't do more than what I'm doing. If I can be perfectly frank, I think what what is happening is people aren't thinking about anything because, you know, I just had all the team in. You have? Yeah. What they said is they weren't clear what you said. So, I checked my >> So, did I talk in Chinese, Colin? I mean, tell me if I'm talking another language. Not particularly Chinese. Um You know, like I don't want to look like I I don't understand how hard people work in. Everyone is working hard, but people have got to take my direction on the things to work on. It's a busy period. It's challenging period. But we can't keep using time as a reason for not making progress. I think we are making progress. Yeah. So, I think it's not as quick as you like. You're very high-paced. I know I'm high-paced. >> cuz of your pace and your And it might be better if I'm not here. It might be that, you know, I'm not quite the right governor for Winchester. That's fine. It won't break break my heart. I'm just frustrated that I'm I kind of come to do a job and I don't feel like I've done it. You didn't think No, I That frustrates me. I know it's much more rehabilitative than 2 years ago, you know. People actually don't even staff have now started calling each other by their first names rather than their surnames. I mean, it's I got I found that very odd when I got here, you know. It's been done many miles from that. Yeah. Okay. All right. Right, let's get to it. See you in a bit. [Music] I've had 2 weeks off. [Music] I've been talking to the governors. They've been very supportive. They're going to slowly reintegrate me into the prison. I want to come back. I just to prove to myself that I can. So, that I'm not in constant fear of this place. I want to know that I can stop thinking about it. [Applause] The only thing to say good luck. You know exactly where we are. We know exactly what needs to be done. The plan is there. Yeah. People have been, you know, clear on their responsibilities. It's about getting people to continue to drive that delivery and that visible leadership that supports the staff to help them to to help people be here just to change, grow and learn and keep it safe. And all the best in your new role. >> Thank you very much. Yes, exciting. >> of a hard earned rest before you go into your next role. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. After 2 years in charge of Winchester Prison, Stephanie has decided to step down. I genuinely think it's 5 years. So, part of me is feeling um really guilty about departing at the 2-year point when I think actually the prison needs 5 years of consistent leadership. I'm still quite emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Happy camera. I got got to get out without crying. I think I probably feel happier leaving if I didn't feel I've been crap here. If that makes sense. But, yeah. [Applause] [Music] When I first started in the prison service, it was quite normal for an officer to be in for a 15 20 years. Now, 20 30 staff, they've probably got about 20 30 years between them. Seems to me that the prisoners are running it than the prison's running it. That's a big big problem. It comes from a higher up level. I don't know whether they're just trying to kid themselves. Saying that yeah, we're we're doing all right, but we're not doing all right. So, I I decided that it was time to end and my health care time. [Music] Okay, we good to go. Yeah. [Music] Still negotiating. Who's walking up? I can't see everyone. Okay. Thank you everyone for making such an effort. This is a place where staff are valued, recognized, and supported. It's not yet clean and comfortable, but it's cleaner and it's more comfortable. And staff are starting to be much more confident than they have been before. And that's the things we need to do to keep this prison a safe environment and where our men can go out and live in a community, our communities. It's been an absolute honor being the governor here. I will be proud of what you continue to achieve. So, thank you. [Applause] How do you sum up your time at Winchester when you look back? I think I would say it's been challenging. Governing is lonely, actually, particularly when your people are under real pressure. We pray for the governor, giving thanks for the leadership represented all the way through this community. And as she walks out of this prison, we pray for leadership in the future. You can always do something better. You can always help someone. There's always something you can do. So, I think that even though it's been painful, I think I've done something here. Um otherwise, it was a waste of life. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]