I ask you for ID when a law enforcement officer asks you for ID it's not I don't have to provide it it's here it is Sir because by law you [ __ ] got to give it when you are asked for it okay we're gonna try and experiment here this is one of my cases from West Virginia it's already over it's been litigated through the federal courts all the way to a published fourth circuit opinion now this is the experiment without cheating without looking this case up without even skipping towards the end I want you to watch the footage first and then without watching the analysis at the end I want you to comment about your thoughts on your legal analysis here what whether you think rights were violated and if so which rights comment first and then watch the analysis foreign Buddies just to set the scene here this is my client great guy Michael Walker suffered from epilepsy and was unable to obtain a driver's license or drive to go coyote hunting but that's where he was going he was going coyote hunting and he had his hunting equipment including a AR-15 style rifle safely strapped on his back he's walking down the side of a public road to meet his friend and then go hunting of course somebody calls the police and police arrive back up that's my day got some ID on you have I broken any laws I'm asking you if you got any idea have I broken any laws I'm asking you one time one time only if you got any idea yes can I have it please I have can you tell me what crime I've committed because I'm asking you for ID I have the right absolute right to ask anybody who they are and if they have any ID unless you do not have to break a law for me to ask you who you are right or wrong wrong unless I have committed a crime no sir yes sir no sir you want to do this or not sir I'm just trying to get up to my destination listen to me where's your destination you don't need to know that well you need to give me some ID what's your name Donahoe what's yours Paulie thank you Mr Walker 21 is better now why'd y'all stop me people are calling saying that you're walking down the road with a gun okay so I guess is that against the law everybody in the world is going to call you know as well as I have been walking up and down this road for years carrying a firearm I have done nothing wrong I am just simply walking up the road okay I understand that and understand it's everybody right see here you go I understand that okay then why am I getting stopped huh then why am I getting stopped again I can stop and talk to anybody that I want to right unless I have committed a crime am I patting you down no okay but you are are you are you detaining it at this point I'm talking to you okay are you detaining me that's up to you yeah if it's up to me I'm gonna be on my way so at this point you can be on your way when I tell you you can walk off okay okay so I'm being detained because at this point I have the absolute right to see whether you're legal to carry that gun or not am I am I expected of not being legal to carry a firearm listen to me have you ever committed any crime that would come that would keep you from carrying a firearm no okay but do you have a suspicion that I have committed a crime to keep me from having a firearm everybody in the world I have no idea everybody I come across man yes past criminal history okay everybody in the world that I deal with that has a gun I check and see whether they have committed a crime that would keep them to carry possess the gun okay don't want to take a minute so if you have not you're kicked down the road you can go do whatever you want to do okay ask for taking that in any store if you plan on going to any store I would highly advise against it I have done it several times I'm talking it's my only Transportation it's fine I've walked into many stores with this fire why do you need to carry an AR-15 with you I don't answer questions it's about Depot is that correct I don't answer questions but you got a cult I don't answer questions don't touch me or my property don't touch me or my property you know what I understand the whole Sovereign citizen [ __ ] okay and I have it up to here with this I don't have to answer any questions or whatnot you make it more difficult for anybody to do the damn job out here by the way when this Deputy was placed under oath and I took his deposition I asked him whether or not he had any indication or information indicating that my client was a sovereign citizen he testified that he did not I'm just wondering what you have I'm not going to take it from you at this point it doesn't matter what I have I'm not breaking any laws I'm not committing any crime I like guns too I'm just kind of curious what you like to carry I'm making small talk okay you can do this [ __ ] all you want and I [ __ ] can't stand suckers that do this kind of [ __ ] that make it more difficult I don't have to answer questions you know what that's all I hear all goddamn day that's not my fault sir it is your fault no it's not because you suckers store it I ask you for ID when a law enforcement officer asks you for ID it's not I don't have to provide it it's here it is Sir because by law you [ __ ] got to give it when you are asked for it and if you think you don't press the issue we'll find out I'll hook you book you damn you in the jail then you can answer to a Goddamn judge unless I have committed a crime I can check anybody in the world if I see you have a gun I can run your name check you and see whether you can possess it or not don't tell me that I can't either because I do it every day and I rest people every day for it unless I have committed a crime or broken the law or I'm suspect of committing a crime or breaking the law you are not allowed to stop me here you go you're wrong take off if that's the way you feel okay so West Virginia is and was an open carry state at the time that this happened it still is now and established four-circuit case law at that time is uh U.S versus black that if you see somebody who's open carrying in an open carry state unless you have some information that that individual is in fact a prohibited person from possessing firearms or some other reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred you can't just stop and detain that individual run their background check just to see because you're curious as a police officer whether or not that person is a prohibited person and when I took this officer's deposition it was clear that that was the only reason that he stopped Michael and Did You observe Mr Walker committing any crimes or anything illegal at that time at that time I didn't know who he was other than just walking down the road no I don't know whether he can possess a gun or anything like that at that point right but you didn't have any information that he could not possess a gun right correct what was your intention at that point when you when you first encountered Mr Walker to find out who it was was that to find out whether or not he was a prohibited person yes sir okay and what were you investigating to see whether he was a person that could possess a firearm okay but you didn't have any information at that point to believe that he wasn't correct correct I didn't know who he was until he finally gave me uh told me who he was I told him when I was done with my investigation then he was free to leave okay and in your mind that meant getting his ID and running his background check to see if he was a prohibited person correct sir it took just a couple of minutes so the deposition testimony established that at the time that this police officer arrived on the scene other than the caring call that there's a guy walking down the side of the road with a gun not alleging that any crime had occurred because of course it is legal in West Virginia the deposition testimony was is that at the time he arrived the possession no prior knowledge of who Mr Walker was whether or not he might be a prohibited person all he knew is what he saw that he saw somebody walking down the side of the road with a gun he didn't even know who called 9-1-1 or specifically what the person had stated at that time all he observed was somebody who had a rifle strapped across their back and he didn't observe him acting inappropriate with the rifle or acting uh in a threatening manner in any way it was just the presence of a rifle and in particular in AR-15 style rifle that that caused the trial court in this case to say that yeah um that was something more a sort of a scary rifle a scary looking rifle that even though you're allowed to have a gun that's not reasonable suspicion in and of itself to justify someone being detained because it was sort of scary looking that is just something more that provides reasonable Reasonable Suspicion and that's unbelievably what happened at the trial court level and believe it or not we appealed it to the fourth circuit we had oral arguments it was just an unbelievable decision the Court held that since it was sort of after the Parkland shooting had occurred and there was a school in the direction that he was walking that just objectively that's something more given that it was an AR style rifle that justified the officer to stop and detain him here it flies in the face of Prior case law in the fourth circuit and after watching the footage you just don't think that the courts would pan out out that way and just get it so wrong this is an important lesson in the area of civil rights law when guns are involved or second amendment issues are involved it's a Bermuda Triangle of civil rights because people who otherwise would support individual liberties support the Bill of Rights support the Fourth Amendment all of a sudden they don't because they also have this desire for gun control and this opposition to the Second Amendment so this is the Walker case for all the people that have been watching I'll post all the links in the description all the time I get asked well what happened with that case well that's what happened we end up losing the case sadly but there it is thanks for watching and I'll see you next time and this is one of the cases that establishes why freedom is scary and why Karen must deal with it