This is Agent Joe we're going over P Best of K summer 24-119174. Today is going to be February 11th, 2025 at approximately 11:21 hours. Again Agent Joe ID 9146 we're at District 16 Substation interview room one and I'm in the pleasure of speaking with Mark. And um can you raise your right hand? You swear that the testimony that you're going to give today is the truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, thank you. All right. Can you please tell me your role in reference your church? Okay. Yes. >> name and what Yeah, St. Luke's. Okay. On Catholic Church on uh Congress. Um my role is I'm a an officer that's part of our um Knights of Columbus church group. Okay. But then I also work as the program manager for a special project that we have which is to raise money for uh students at St. Luke Catholic Church to go to Cardinal Newman. And how do you know Evans? So I know Evans for many years. Um uh sometimes I go to the mass that he's at and um we're part of the collections. Um one of the things that the Knights does and um just he's you know, been just an acquaintance since I joined the joined the Knights. Okay. >> Probably four years now. Four years, okay. And um what was his role in your church? So um previously um his role as part of our church group um I'll just call it our church group. Um every year those roles change. So until this last year he really um I don't believe had a specific officer role but this last year he was um voted on to run our church group. And what was the date of that approximately? When do we do those? June. June. June, okay. >> All right. In June what was he appointed as or at the time what was he? >> The official title is Grand Knight but it's the person that runs our meetings, works as the conduit between the priest at the church for events and different goals that we want to do for the year. The Grand Knight, okay. >> Yeah. And what's the role of the Grand Knight for purposes of Yeah, so he's the point person, um works with the state organization, um is you know, manages all the different activities that we're doing as a group, all of which are fundraising. Um we raise a lot of money for the school. Um raise a lot of money that we then, you know, for example, we raise money, we give money to the Special Olympics every year. So he's pretty much the point guard in making sure that everything is happening and especially making sure that all the reporting is going to the state um and to national um as it as we're required to do as as a group. All right. And this role for Evans is he going to be compensated for No. No. No. So he's not supposed to be compensated for um No. So it's like a volunteer >> it's a volun complete volunteer group. >> position. Yeah. Okay. All right. Has he ever brought up or wanted to be compensated for his role in this No, not in my mind and and every Grand Knight, you know, every year it's a it's another person that's voted. Everybody knows that there's no compensation for anybody. Okay. All right. When did you first discover that there was an issue with uh Evans being in charge of being the Grand Knight for some time? So um I was not at the meeting. Um I was made aware of it after the meeting but at one of our um the meeting where the money was supposed to be turned over to um Robert Madasky who runs our little project. Um and uh and in that meeting um he was told that the checks had been written and given to [clears throat] Evans Paul um instead of Robert who they were supposed to be given to and the amount of the checks were not the 2500 which is what our commitment is to Cardinal Newman, they were for $10,000 which you know, as Robert called me he said I don't know where anybody got $10,000 from. Okay. So you're stating that the checks are supposed to be separate in increments of 2500 each not in a full amount of $10,000. Correct. And the checks are written to um Cardinal Newman [clears throat] but on but specific to a student. So students are awarded um the scholarship, we collect information, we review all the applicants and then those names are turned over to Cardinal Newman and then we make the payments to Cardinal Newman on their behalf to help with their tuition. >> tuition, okay. With a maximum of being 10,000. With a maximum of being 10,000 um as directed by Cardinal Newman is who we worked with and I said this is how we want you to do it. So maximum can be, you know, 10,000, 2500 um per year. Okay. And what time approximately was this meeting that occurred that you guys noticed that there was a issue with uh On your end we could I can't. Yeah, I don't remember. >> Uh July, August, September of last year? >> it was September. September, okay. At this point when it was discovered and you were made aware um where were you at this time? Like what was going on? Did you um advise to take any action, do this or do that? Like what what was after that? You you were advised So Robert um called me and I said I'm sorry, who's Robert? Robert Okay, and what what is what is who is he? >> So Robert is one of the other people that's in charge of this initiative to raise money for Cardinal Newman which we call the Cardinal Newman Education Scholarship Fund is the the formal name. Okay. And Robert called me after this meeting and said, "Hey, you know, something's wrong. Don't know what's going on. I'm hearing different things in the meeting. You know, Evans Paul said this and then afterwards in the parking lot he said this and and I said to Robert I said, "Well, don't you have access to the account that this money's in?" He said, "Yes, I do." I said, "Well, log in and see if anything cleared and if it did you can go in and you can, you know, look at the copy of the check and see what happened." Mhm. Um and so he did do that and that's when he realized that a $10,000 check had been deposited but it'd also been uh changed um who the check had been written out to um had been by um Ed um our person that who's in charge of our finances. Okay. Um uh Ed had written it out to um who it was supposed to be written to. It had been scratched out and Evans Paul's name had been put in there and he also endorsed the check on the back. So >> Okay. um So basically the check had been doctored and then he signed it and then deposited it. Okay. So in terms of how the the check is is written um the pay to the order of Cardinal Newman High School that's correct. Um typically Edward Mannick would sign the check. Okay. Um since he's our, you know, treasurer. Okay. Um the four is correct scholarship um and then Megan uh was one of the people that we awarded a scholarship to. Okay. So that information is correct. Now um above Cardinal Newman High School um in a different handwriting is written Evans that should not be there. Okay. And then [clears throat] Ed um name is um looks to to be like it had been scratched out >> Yes. and Evans name is written above it. If I look at the back um even though the check was originally written Cardinal Newman High School, it was not deposited or signed by Cardinal Newman, it was it was signed by Evans. Okay. and deposited. And does that look like his his handwriting? I wouldn't be able to tell you if that's his handwriting. I've never seen his handwriting >> so okay. But that is that is his name. >> Okay. Today is February 11th, 2025 at approximately 11:45 hours. My ID is 9146 and I'm in company with Robert. All right, Mr. Robert, can you please tell me what's your role in uh Um my role at the time of the event is I was when our council listed as one of the trustees and also the head of the Cardinal Newman Scholarship Education Fund, the fundraiser group that's in our council. Okay, council of what? Uh Knights of Columbus. Knights of Columbus at what church uh At St. Luke's. St. Luke's, okay. And can you please uh tell me how you know Evans Paul? Uh from church and as well as he's been a member of our council for several years and in years past I was the Grand Knight of the council as well and he'd been an officer in in past years. I don't remember which role whether it was chancellor or something along those lines but he did have a role at one point in time. And how long have you known him like approximately? >> Um probably I'd say at least more than five years. Long time, okay. Just either from church before he just see him at church over the years. It's probably more than that. You know, but he's been a parishioner for a long time at at the at the church and his kids didn't go to school at the school there as well. Okay. The Cardinal Newman Education Scholarship is um the fund I I started with in with Cardinal Newman. Myself, I was a graduate of Cardinal Newman. I do sit on the finance committee at Cardinal Newman and over the years I've heard people always say that, you know, we need to raise money to get kids into Catholic colleges and that's not the problem. The Catholic colleges have money if they want the students, they're going to get the student. Our problem is kids that go to Catholic grade schools of and people they families a lot of them can't continue their growth in Catholic education to get them into high school. So, over the years I've seen the fluctuation enrollment so I came up with the idea and talked with Brother Thomas who was the head of president of Cardinal Newman at the time and what we could do to help out and do So, we came up with the idea to start a scholarship fund that we would raise money for school students either from St. Luke to go to Cardinal Newman >> [snorts] >> and we'd have the scholarship fund going there and if someone and or if they were they possibly Sacred Heart as well. And in the order of the families and we set the fundraiser up and the goal when we started the first fundraiser which was a sporting clay event was we raised the money and in conjunction with the school with Brother Thomas said that the money from the first one would go to students of the 20 freshman of the 24 25 school year. The second year event would go from students of the freshman of the 25 26 school year and then this upcoming one would be from students of the 26 27 school year of the freshman class. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> And the original amounts of the scholarship amount basically depended on how much we accumulated, how many funds we did in the first event. Okay. So, we did not well enough that we were able to award two $2,500 scholarships over a four-year period. So, unlike other scholarships that's a one and done, we thought it was best to arrange one that the families would get help every single school year on as long as the kid maintained their grades and the other criteria that we set up with the school. Okay. With a maximum of how much? It was maximum of $10,000 over the four-year period. Over four-year period. Okay. And after he was appointed uh what would happen what what occurred free uh what discrepancy that you noticed that? In our getting ready for the school year in our August meeting it was everything was fine. We had some We were trying to get the money to set the kids who won the scholarship. We wanted to get that set up. In the September meeting which it was September 9th, I believe. Yeah, I think it was September 9th. Um during the meeting we had the passing out of the treasurer's report and the end of the report of the scholarship fund and I noticed that there was $20,000 gone. Uh-huh. And so I, you know, "Whoa, what's going on here, guys?" And the money and and previous to that I had talked requested the two $2,500 checks. So, when the September meeting came and like "What happened here? Where is this money?" And "Oh, checks were given to Evans and they were they was given to Cardinal Newman." Okay. And so in the meeting he said that he had already given the checks to Cardinal Newman. And when you say he, who's that? >> Evans Paul. He said he had the checks to Cardinal Newman. >> Okay. Um as the meeting went on other things were questioning some things and then I said, "Well, you know, I know the people at Cardinal Newman treasurer, I will go and ask them to refund us back the other money." And I was talking to Evans at the end of the meeting about this. I'll just go and get "Oh, no, no, don't go to Cardinal Newman. Don't go to Cardinal Newman." So, I kind of thought was funny, but you know, I said, "Well, I'll I'll check with Ed." And he was kept insisting I not go to Cardinal Newman and then as the people were ready to leave so cuz I still have the checks. And like, "What? You still have the checks?" And then several other people in the room said, "We had this whole big blow up in the room about the money and now you tell everybody you have the checks?" Uh-huh. That kind of So, everybody kind of got "Whoa." So, during that after the meeting I sent him a text and um basically just to confirm you do have the checks for the Cardinal Newman scholarship. And his reply was yes, thanks. I said, "Okay, thank you." So, talking to Mark and and and and um Ed during the week trying to track things down what was going on about getting it. I hadn't gotten any response. So, I had sent Evans some texts and um Sure. >> And um so um on the Thursday, September 12th Yeah, I sent him a text said, "Good morning. I I need to get those two checks from you." I didn't get a response. Um I had a finance meeting at at at St. Luke's. I sit on the on the head of that finance committee and I saw Evans in the parking lot. So, pulled over and said he was there to pick up by his wife and it was raining. And I asked him I you know, I said I I need to find out about getting the checks and then he didn't say anything. He drove off. So, you know, and he said I said to him I said I'm I'm not sure what you mean by you will find out about getting me the checks. So, it's this process we were checking on things and then I um talked to Mark. Ed Manning he was supposed to give that at that time to tell Mark that one of the checks had already cleared the bank. And when Mark Lambertson told me that I said, so I went online and checked and found the check had cleared the bank and then went, "Whoa, you know, Evans' name was written above Cardinal Newman." And what check was that? Uh it was one of the scholarship checks. Okay. And it was for $10,000. $10,000. So, >> [clears throat] >> And on the Friday the 13th I had texted him and you know, you know, I I said I spoke with the Friday you know, the finance department of Cardinal Newman I get need to get those checks from you today to get those situation straightened out and resolved. I said, "What time you want to meet at St. Luke's?" And his response was good morning, brother. Listen, you don't need to give $2,500 for each Nicholas family wants to save theirs for next year in order to pay 5,000. If you want to fix it, just get 2,500 for me and that's all you need. You don't need those checks. Those two checks are not in question anymore. I have already voided them, right? And I I said, "Thanks for responding. I don't understand your reluctance in getting the checks to me. That's fine if you voided checks. However, Ed is the one who should be voiding the checks. In order to get the new ones issued, I will need to get Ed those checks. He will need to keep them for bookkeeping purposes. The only other option is to put a stop payment on those checks and I I would like to avoid the cross of the council. In in regards to the Ramos family, I was already aware of the situation. What time today can we meet at St. Luke's to get the check? And I have to see him outside uh St. Luke's that afternoon and asked him about the checks and I was told I don't want to give them to you. I would give them to Ed. And at that point in time we were supposed to Yeah, I had the voided I found the voided checks. I went online, got the voided checks. We talked to Mark. We said we need to I called Father Andrew, set a meeting up with him. And the three of us talked and said we need to, you know, report this. This is, you know, money's these things have been altered. The check was altered and then the money hadn't gone. So, we uh set a meeting. We went to the Palm Springs Police Department on that that Saturday afternoon. Went to the Palm Springs Police Department, made the report. Um I've got the report number of the We did there. Um and reported it at that time. So, being involved with the Knights for a number of years, I knew that he did and we talked to the district he would what the steps he needed to do. So, he made put the thing in progress to remove him and then appointed me as the grand knight cuz I'd been the grand knight before. Okay. And so and then he informed Evans, you know, we thought after our conversation with the Palm Springs Police Department that they would actually be coming by the next day to do something and that was the what we were led to believe, but then everybody kind of got I don't know what happened. So, I guess they wanted more information. You know, we provided them with the canceled check uh a copy of the text messages between he was sent back and forth us and other information we had. And then we took now taking over the case. Okay. Uh this is Agent Jolene. I'm talking to Mr. Evans. Yes. All right? Yes. Um today is February 28th, 2025 at approximately uh 20:07 hours here at Palm Springs station district. Evans, what are we read your Miranda rights, okay? Make sure that you understand, okay? You have the right Um before you make any statement I'm going to read you your following rights. You have the right to remain silent and answer any questions. Do you understand? Yes. Okay. With you understanding your rights, are you willing to speak with me? Sure. Okay. Cool. All right. And do you swear and affirm that the statement that you're about to give is true? Yes. All right. And do you legally acknowledge that whomever knowingly provides a false statement under oath shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree. Sure. Yes. Good. All right. All right. That's okay. So, Mr. Okay. Um So, this is obviously has to do reference of >> Knights of Columbus. >> Knights of Columbus. Okay. So, you were Okay. Um what is your role in the Knights of Columbus? Like what what what you were appointed I mean, when that happened, I was a grand knight. You were a grand knight. Okay. You were appointed a grand knight. Okay. Yes. And when were you appointed that grand knight? Very true. >> What year? Last year. Last year. Okay. Do you remember the month? Yeah, it was like what? It was like April. Yeah, the election was happening in April. Yeah, I think so. April. Okay. Yeah. And when were you appointed? Uh >> [snorts] >> I think this was after Father Andrew came, but it was July or June. I don't really remember the month, but it's between like December. I remember after probably the end of July. I don't really remember the day. July or June last year. So, 2024. 2024. Yes. All right. Have you ever had a a job in the church that you've ever been compensated for? No. No. No. It's been all volunteer. I have been, yes. I have been volunteer there, yeah. And how long have you been at the church, attending the church for? It's been like since 1999. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. That's right. Like 25, 26 years. Okay. Yeah. And during the time around July of of last year when you became the grand knight, um uh there's an incident that occurred. Okay? Uh reference I guess they had a meeting. Yes. And there was a a discrepancy over funds. Yeah. Can you explain like what that discrepancy was? Yes. So, what happened is this was like uh after you know, when you get knight, the treasurer, everybody, when there's something, they need to talk to you. Okay. So, usually I used to pick up my wife. Okay. Because she always done at 6:00 after care. Okay. So, I went when I went there to pick up my wife, and then I went to see if there's a bulletin like family life, so I went to sit there. And then there's like some mission on Friday. We have mission prayers, so they know me. I've been just, you know, been sitting there talking to them. And then uh he Ed is the treasurer. Ed came in. He was like, "Evans, I really want to talk to you. They tell me you're here." I was like, "Okay, what happened? What's going on?" He was like, "They sold something I really want to talk to you about because now you're grand knight." I said, "What happened?" He was like, "Listen, uh we've been collecting money as a donation for scholarship. It's been 3 years. Like they make a picture with the people for the donation, but they never give the money. I mean, so he tell me that that's like click with my mind. If you're getting people donation for something, you should give that money out. Especially you stand up in the church. You make a picture with those people. Everybody sees like they're going to have scholarship. Yeah. And then they never received the money. I was like, "Okay, just tell me what happened." And then when he tells me they never give the money for 3 years. It's been past 3 years. So, as I'm I'm grand knight, so he needs my help. I was like, "What kind of help you need?" He was like, "We need to give the scholarship." I was like, "Do you have anybody?" And then he bring me like a bulletin with the person name and then everything. I was like, "Okay. Those two girls, I know them, so I can talk to them." I was like uh as the paper said, they have a scholarship for 4 years. So, that's been 2,500 each year, so there's going to be $10,000 back. So, it's going to be a total of 20,000. So, I tell him, "So, this is what we're going to do because my kids is over there to that school, Cardinal O'Hara High School." Okay. So, what we do, we pay him the tuition online. Like in the website called FACTS. I tell him like, "This is what we're going to do. I can't just get the money, and then I put the money in my account. I can go to FACTS. Just contact those parents, get the information, and then make the payment online." He was like, "Evans, as soon as you can do it, help me out. That would be fine." I said, "Okay." So, he went to his car. He went home. He was wrote the check, but he he wrote the check to back home. But I think he's going to come with the check. I can tell him like, "Just put my name on it because I already tell him I will just deposit the check that way I can make the payment online." So, what he said was like, "Okay. So, now you're grand knight. You don't have the money. You have time." So, he said, "You don't have time to go to the bank with me to put your name in the account. So, you're grand knight anyway, so just sign on the top." He give me the pen. He was like, "Sign on the top of my signing. Put your name that sign got me a problem." So, I take the check. I hold the check for 2 weeks because I need to find out like with the parents first, so how much money because you only get only one scholarship. The school give you scholarship and everything. So, I just want to see how much the difference if it's higher than 2,500 a year or if it's less. But myself, if it's less, I will give them the rest of the money. Because 2,500 is belonging to them every year. All right? So, okay. So, after I talked to the parents, one parent tell me, "Evans, I don't have no balance because we have a Spanish scholarship I got. So, can I use that money next year?" I said, "Yes, next year you can have 5,000 next year." But there's one of them when I do event like selling tickets and everything, she always help me out selling tickets for me and everything at the church. All right? So, I really need to give that ahead of money. And then she hold the school 2,000 300 something dollars. Okay. So, and then we have a scholarship for 2,500 dollars for her. Uh-huh. You know, her name is Kelly. So, I always promise her so we're going to get the money, going to get the money. So, after that, I went to my bank. I think it was two checks, $20,000 total. Yeah. I deposit one check, 14,000. Uh-huh. So, I tell him like, "This is a scholarship check from Knights of Columbus. So, I'm going to give to Cardinal O'Hara High School." So, the check deposit. So, they said the check the check's going I think I put in here. The first day was September 5th something like that. The check's going to But the girls keep asking me, "Evans, when you going to pay and everything?" We always text. I said, "The check is not clear yet. I'm waiting for the check to be clear that way I can pay it for you. All right?" So, after that, we have a meeting. So, I'm the one that they host the meeting and everything. If I have to ask questions, I can. So, by the time of the meeting, you need to give the book, right? The treasurer didn't show up. The guy that I'm dealing with in that problem, he didn't show up, but he said, "Evans, I will send the report, the paper what happened, and then you will talk about it." I said, "Okay." So, when the report come up, I read the report. There's like $20,000 check. Yeah. The but the money is not out yet from the account. But we see there's $20,000 check out for the scholarship. All right? And then there's a guy named Robert. He just stand up says like, "Oh, no, there's no money. We cannot give any scholarship without me and this and that." That pissed me off because I knew things he didn't know. Because I was like, "Listen, dude, it's been like 3 years. You keep making picture with people. You said you going to give scholarship. You never give it. So, now I'm the grand knight. So, I'm responsible to give those people the scholarship. Because because I know you want to use the money for your own gain because lately he came with few other guys from north that moving down here. They talking about to put that money in in like uh what we call a market. You know, they going to use it for like market, so to pick So, now you you guys want to use the money to send the market." All right? So, I always against that. And then after that, I was like after the meeting done, we always sit after the meeting. My wife always like give me food for everybody to eat. Just I call him. I said like, "Listen, uh Who did you call? Huh? Who did you call? Uh Robert. Robert. Okay. Yeah, he was the one that we discussed. I was like, "Listen, that's the way I am. Dude, I don't want to to take like a personal problem with you. So, I'm sorry if I say something that offend you. So, I'm sorry about it." And then we done. We start talking and everything. But by to tomorrow, I receive a text from him. "I need the checks." >> Yes. I didn't even answer. Believe me. I didn't answer. Yeah, I saw the text message. Yeah. Because I didn't like have any I didn't take any checks from you, so why you ask me for a check? So, at 3:00, I mean, at around 5:00 something, I went to pick up my wife. He knew I'll be there, so he was waiting in the parking lot. He came next to my car. He says like, "Evans, can you give me the checks?" I will tell him like, "Listen, dude, I don't have any checks for you. Did I get any checks from you? No. If I have to give checks, I will give it to the person that I give it to." All right? So, okay. And then like I told you, I already tell the bank, so I mean, the scholarship will cancel. I don't want to get involved anymore. So, can you send the money back to TD Bank that way, you know, I don't want to have anything to see with that. So, the bank teller tell me so the TD Bank need to request the money. So, what I did, I call Ed. He's the treasurer. I tell Ed like, "Can you meet with me at Wawa?" So, we meet at Wawa in Bellmawr because I'm living in Wawa, Palm Bay. Okay. So, I was with my daughter and then we went there, we talked about it and everything. And then he was like, "Okay, look like they call me Evans, but I don't call them back because I didn't know what they're talking about." I was like, "Yeah, they want you to go to TD Bank, request the money back and then we're done with it." So, it's been like time passed because I never talked to nobody. Even I don't even feel to go to the meeting anymore. But I called my assistant, it's Ali. So, Ali is my assistant. I call him, I explain to him the situation, what happened and everything. So, I was like, "I don't tell anybody. So, if you know, anyone come to tell you whatever, I mean, you will know what he tell you, right?" >> [clears throat] >> And then after that, so one Sunday I went to church and then Father Father Andrew, so we have a good relationship. He was like, "Evans, you know, I'm the one that doing usher at the church and 9:00 mass." He was like, "Evans, I want to talk to you after mass done." I was like, "Here, Father, in your office." He was like, "No, just wait." He went and then when I done, I said, "Father, I'm finished." So, we get to the we went to the back room on the left side. He was like, "Listen, uh uh they tell me something about the check and this and that. But when they tell me that, they said they already make a police report. But uh they we we have we have what we call a district deputy." And then they already tell the district deputy about it. They asked me to actually to step down. So, I was like, "That's all you want to say?" He says, "Yes, I'm finished." I said, "Okay." I didn't say nothing else. I said, "Okay." But since he says that, the reason why I pissed off because all of them, they always have you to see me, talk to me and everything. So, if something happened like [clears throat] this, so you guys already make a police report, so no one call me, talk to me about it. No one wants to know what I think. So, what why? Because black people always like they steal it? You know? So, I didn't say anything at all. I just like forget it. Okay. So, now what I did, I was waiting. But now I have to deal with the bank and the treasurer. So, I called the treasurer, I said like, "Listen, did you make the request for the money?" He said, "Yes, Evans, I did." I was like, "Okay, let me find out with me with the bank." When I called the bank, the bank said, "Evans, they already make me the request for the money, but there's something called investigation. They're making me like with the check, so we cannot release the money until the investigation done." I was like, "That's all I want to know." So, I'm waiting for the investigation to be done like I tell you guys, just send that money back. I want to I want to be finished with everything. That's it. How long was that? It was like uh it was back what? Came back in November or November or December. I don't really like remember the date. But is that normal practice though? Is that normal practice? >> Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. >> No, no, for somebody to take the the Knight of Columbus check and put it in their own bank account? If it's not the Is that normal? Like do do all the grand knights do that? Listen, let me tell you what happened. You know, when you just get knighted, nobody tells you anything. You need to listen to the treasurer only because the treasurer taking care of the money. He is the one that is responsible. Soon you get knighted, he's the one that's go to the bank with you and join him in the in the bank account. So, he was the one that like I tell you, give me the check, says, "Evans, you can sign it at the you can sign right here because you're a grand knight right now. So, like you said, you need $10,000 to pay the uh in this [clears throat] scholarship. So, yes, this is the way it is. What happens if Ed said that's not true, he told you to not put your name like that on the check? Who? Ed? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But Ed can say whatever he wants because like I tell you, yes, Ed was the one that give me the pen, says like sign right here. And said you could put it in your own >> That's correct. Just to do the payment online. Because I already clear with him. That's how we make payment. >> What payment online? It was like the scholarship payment for the for the parents. But why would it come from your bank account? That's where I'm kind of confused, isn't it? Because like to make the payment online, you you need to be the money it it was to come from my account because I'm the one that making the payment. Okay, but isn't it like you said this is isn't it $2,500? Is the first it's up to $10,000, but it's $2,500 increments, right? It's supposed to be like $10,000 for each. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it starts at $2,500 That's correct. So, when we control it like I said in the beginning, it's supposed to be like we take two check of two $10,000 for years. Yeah, but but don't they go normally in $2,500 increments first? Basically, what I'm saying is it's never $10,000 check written outright. It's 20 it goes up to 10,000, but it's $2,500 each. No, we discussed that in the This is the reason why I want to get myself out of it because when I had the problem with him in the meeting, that's how they want it. Yeah, that's right. They want like $2,500 like every year because in case the kid's not in the school anymore, they don't want to lose any money. Exactly. Yeah, they don't want to lose their money. So, I mean, I can see it makes sense. But like when I just learned I learned just $10,000 and then the paper says $10,000, you know? But at the meeting, that's the way they want it. Okay. But don't you think though that in your honest opinion, does that make sense to you that you would sign your name on the check to the deposit it in your account and you'd be paying for it? I mean, Be honest. Like I'm just trying to help you out, but let me tell you that. I mean, I was like at that time, you mean the way I was taking I didn't wasn't taking like it's not fair or whatever because I was taking about nothing different. If it's going to take the money on this, I just want to like I tell you, especially the girl like that helped me like selling the ticket for us for Knight of Columbus. We did a breakfast at the of Columbus. I mean, I was the one that make that much money that day. So, it's around 4,000 something selling tickets only from the church. So, she was the one only every Sunday come to sell the ticket. So, I just want I know she owed the school the money. I really want to help her out. I just want to do that on my head. So, still now they say no help her out. So, I'm the one that keep telling her, "Call Father, call the church, call everybody, call everybody." I even like email. I was the one that email the headquarter about the situation. They didn't say anything to the headquarter. As I get knighted, I email them. I'm the one that email the district deputy about it. So, they think that because they said $20,000, I have to tell explain to them I did $10,000 and everything, you know? But after you deposited the check, why did you not tell anybody that you put it in your account and then you'd be paying for it through online? Like anybody like who? I know you're the grand knight, but you got to tell you know, because you know you have meetings every quarter every month, you know? Don't you know they would see that money missing? Like how come you didn't let the people know before you I just No, no. Like I tell you, we we had no reason. Ed only he was the only one that know because when we did the meeting, the first meeting we did after the check, I mean, the check wasn't deposited yet. You remember I tell you that. I said like we did the meeting and then we talked about the check, the report. There is a two check that's right for $20,000 scholarship and then that's how we went to have the problem because he doesn't want $20,000 get out at once. But he wants to give $2,500 a year. So, that the most money that's supposed to get out is like $5,000. >> Yeah. So, right? So, that's it. But why would you do if you know that that's going to be a problem, why would you do $20,000? I didn't know it was going to be a problem. I didn't know that. You just said that they didn't want to Exactly. They want that I still like before the check was right before the meeting. But it's always been like that. I was talking to the other grand knights in the past including Mark. And he said Livingston and he said that it's always been $2,500 increments ever since they started and he created it because it was both Mark and Robert that created this this scholarship. So, uh So, what I'm saying is if you know it's always been like that, why would you do No, no, no. I I didn't know it was been like that. I know it's like $2,500 a year. Yes. Yes, I just tell you. But for 4 years, it's supposed to be four time $2,500. So, that's mean it's like $10,000, right? That's what I just said. So, for $10,000 for year, so when we had the meeting after that, so they said like it's supposed to be $2,500 in case the kids didn't stay in school, they don't want to lose any money. Yes. So, doesn't that make sense? Why would you do the whole $10,000 then? Because it's for 4 years. I understand that, but just like what you said, if the kid say he does no longer goes to school, skips school or the grades are not there, then you just lose that >> Yes, exactly. We discussed that in the meeting after. Okay. So, basically you basically decided upon yourself that you're going to take that money, deposit it and then pay them No, you was going to I mean, this is the reason why I deposited only one check because the other girl for this year, she didn't have any balance. It's only one girl that have balance $2,300. So, let me basically I mean, after I paid that $2,300, whatever that's left over to make it like $2,500. But I was not going to do that. I was going to give them like the total like, you know, pay the balance and then give you the total for 10,000 for the for the 4 years. But which is the one that But then you attempted to submit another check for 10,000, right? Submit what? You tried to get another check for 10,000, right? No, no, no. Those two checks was at the same time. The same time, the same minute. Okay, which is 20,000, correct? Exactly. I know, but why would you do another $10,000 check? Because it's for two people. Which you're not agreeing with me for then and then we're not going to go around in circles, all right? >> Yes. The fund is made for that $2,500. Yes. It's never taken in a lump sum of 10. All right, just hear me out. It's never taken in a lump sum of 10, okay? The reason for is because the $10,000 is the maximum they can get, right? Yeah, for 4 years. >> yes, okay, I understand that for 4 years. All right? So the reason for that is just like you said, if they left school or their grades are not kept up or what or any of that issue, then you're not out of all that money, you know, it's already taken out and it can stay in the account and maybe grows more money or whatever percent whatever is left in the account to continue growing or yielding or whatever what have you, okay? You took upon yourself, all right, as the uh the uh grand knight, to take that check and deposit it. Yes. Yes, all right? We can agree on that, okay? Then you proceeded, whether you like you said, which was stupid or not stupid or Ed said you could do this or not, wrote your name up top of Cardinal Newman and then uh scratched out Ed's name and wrote your name and then deposited the check. No, I'm sorry, no. I didn't scratch. Okay, come on. You didn't put a line out. I did copy. No, no, no. But if you see that line, that was Ed me. No, probably I don't know if you did copy. No, I didn't put a line. You actually wrote your name above his the same way. That's correct, yes. We went Ed, yes. And then you deposited the check. Yes. What I'm telling you is that doesn't make sense because it it's not supposed to be like that. You took that upon yourself. Exactly. >> You're not supposed to do that. My responsibility, yes. >> Okay. >> [clears throat] >> So what I'm telling you is why would you in your mind think that would make sense to you to do something like that? The reason why at that time when we were talking, all all had in mind all we were thinking about is just pay because that's it here. The money been sitting here and then everybody that has scholarship, they never get the scholarship. It was like Evans, let's do that. Ed was the one that came with the check already write for $10,000. I never tell him like when we check for $10,000, we can only it's going to be like $10,000 for 4 years. So after the meeting, those checks already been done >> [clears throat] >> and then 2 or 3 weeks after we had the meeting and then we come up like Okay, so we need to discuss there's a two checks of 10,000 get out, you know, the money wasn't get out, but there's two checks right of 10,000. At that time like we discuss about it's supposed to be 2,500 in case the kids leave the school and everything. What I'm saying is as of right now, unfortunately, I do believe that you did have maybe malice intent of basically stealing all that money, but what you did is wrong, period. Okay. >> understand that? Yes. Okay, you cannot write your name over a check and you cannot sign your name, okay? All right? So as of right now, what you're looking as as as being charged is grand theft Okay. >> of $10,000 and uh uttering a forged instrument, which is a check. Okay. >> Okay? Those are two felonies, okay? Um I tried to help you out. Um I'm not saying that, you know, I'm not saying that you did anything wrong or anything like that, but um you're you're not helping yourself. And you if you told me you had financial problems, this is why you did this, you weren't thinking and then you're later pay back this and that, whatever. But I can't force you to say anything. >> I don't want to I'm only looking I could only look at what I have as just to prove your verbal statements and looking at all the overdrawn fees and all the unpaid balances and certain things that you have here, your suspended license. And um you know, that's all I can go by, which is the actual evidence, you know, what I'm going to go by. >> I would never tell you yes. That's fine. That's all I have on my intention just to steal the money. That was it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, yeah. He was charged with grand theft, uttering a forged instrument, and fraudulent use of personal identification. He was sentenced to a 12-month pre-trial intervention program with 50 hours of community service, a theft abatement course, no contact with the victim, and $10,000 in restitution. Thanks for watching. Be sure to subscribe for more videos like this.