foreign
good morning this is Daniel here with
cops and cons TV I just want to welcome
everyone to our live show now we do this
live show every Friday around 11 o'clock
mountain time so I appreciate you
joining us so one of the things that we
do on this show is we're going to break
down the most important issues in
policing and we have some really
interesting cases this week
um I also want to mention that you know
we did change the name to this channel
so it was cop watch or cops and cons TV
and the most important thing about that
is that we have the same great content
so the content of the channel hasn't
changed we still are going to have the
most raw and best live interactions
between police officers and citizens
however the the name cops and cons
really just captures more of what this
channel actually is so just wanted to
explain that as we come out and the most
important thing is it is the same great
content hasn't changed at all we're
going to put out body cam video from
police officers interacting with
citizens that is the most interesting
stuff that you can find out there and
then we're going to have these live
shows and breakdowns on Friday so we're
going to have up something for everyone
but in this live show part of what we
really like to do is to have people
comment and people comment and ask
questions so as I'm going through a case
if you think I got something right or if
you think I got something wrong maybe
you see this case a little bit
differently than I do and put your
comment in there I'll definitely try to
read them and get through them as we're
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that would make it so I would definitely
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but we're just gonna get right into the
cases today
let's see I was going to we have a we
have a comment already name change is
Good from ment media well thank you so
much we we uh appreciate that um we like
the name change as well so thank you so
much all right so um
almost every week there's one big case
that pretty much takes over a news cycle
and this happened a couple so this
really hit the news a couple days ago
but the case happened back on June 10th
of 2022 and maybe people know which case
that I'm going to talk about and
definitely put your comments in there so
we're also going to put a link to the
body cam video so definitely watch that
link later on and you know even if you
want to comment later about your
thoughts on this case but this is a
really important case and it didn't get
a whole lot of traction uh attraction
right away it was a local story and it
wasn't a national story but the family
of the individual his name is Christian
glass the family of the individual who
was killed by by police officers hired
an attorney and it was really the
attorney for the family that made this a
national story so a shout out to the
attorney for the family who did a great
job because they were really trying to
keep this as a local story and it just
broke through to the National level in
the last couple days so all right so
this case happened in Clear Creek County
Colorado on June 10th 2022 and let me
set this up a little bit so here's the
facts there's a lot of things that are
disputed in this case but a lot of the
facts aren't so Christian glass is a 22
year old man he does have some mental
health issues
um and prior to this he had smoked some
marijuana and he was taking ADHD pills
that was all he had in his system
um he was driving and he was a student
he considered himself a geologist and he
did go to school for that so what
happened is as Christian was driving
around Clear Creek Clear Creek County
Colorado
Clear Creek County Colorado he crashed
his car now once he crashed his car
Christian called police he called 9-1-1
because he wanted some help so he didn't
just call so a lot of times if people
commit a crime or if it's a stolen car
that they crash or you know maybe if
it's a if it's a drunk driver typically
people who have committed crimes or who
have really bad intent don't call police
on themselves so I think that's
important to note here that he called
9-1-1 now while he was on the phone with
9-1-1 it wasn't the typical interaction
that he had with the 911 operator so he
let the 911 operator know a couple
things that were a little a little off
that would be important for police
officers to know prior to going on scene
so Christian let this batch in 9-1-1
know that he was paranoid that he
thought that people were following him
he also told despetta he did have a
couple weapons in his car specifically a
rock hammer and a knife and but that
these were tools that he used for
geology
Christian even offered to to dispatch
over the phone without them asking he
said you know because I'm being followed
as soon as the police officers get here
I'm willing to throw these out of the
car I'm willing to throw the weapons out
of the window I don't want anyone to be
afraid so you can imagine so police
officers do have this information as
they get on scene so once officers get
unseen you never know what you're
dealing with as a police officer so we
can only imagine that the police
officers are probably thinking well this
is It's one of really only a couple
things either someone crashed and they
just need some help getting their car
towed and maybe getting a ride home or
it's a drunk driver who crashed so if
that's the case maybe this would be a
criminal investigation or this is
someone that's having a mental health
episode and police officers might think
that just because of some of the you
know more strange comments that were
given to dispatch by Christian so police
officers get there and they make contact
with with Christian and it seems like
almost immediately they are kind of
treating this like a drunk driving
investigation which is wait which which
is reasonable when someone crashes their
car
Christian refuses to get out of the
vehicle the police officers tried to get
him out of the car they asked him to get
out of the car they don't almost
immediately the police officers once
Christian refuses to exit the vehicle
almost immediately police officers say
things such as you know if you don't get
out of the car we're going to force you
out of the car also at this point one of
the officers put spike strips behind the
car's rear tires basically what this is
it's it's a strip of spikes just like it
sounds and if the car backs up or tries
to leave those spikes would go into the
tires so if someone tried to flee if the
vehicle tried to flee the spikes would
go into the tires and you know the the
idea is that the tires would deflate and
this would prevent you know a long
vehicle pursuit or police chase so it
seems like At first that's what police
officers thought that maybe this was a
drunk driving investigation so they put
the spike strips in case Christian tried
to leave however Christian refused to
exit the vehicle he wasn't getting out
of the vehicle
and he um he was making strange
statements but at one point Christian
did have a conversation with the police
officers about the weapons he had so the
rock knife and the and the rock hammer
he did have a conversation with them and
you know he's still in the car he's in
the driver's seat and he basically told
the the officers he's like I'm willing
to throw them out now I'm willing to
throw these out of the car now and for
some reason we're going to talk about
why the police officers told him not to
they said don't touch those things don't
don't throw those things don't even
touch them so you know even though he
offered to throw these weapons out of
the car the police officers told him not
to so this goes on for a long time this
isn't just a few minute interaction it
goes on for over an hour at some point
police officers call in the two police
officers on scene they call an
additional resources a different
different police officers they contact
Colorado State Police at some point
police officers who are more in plain
clothes
um not not full uniformed officer so
it's unknown if they are like Crisis
Intervention officers or if they are uh
in investigators of of some sort but
multiple police officers get unseen at
one point so this is the Clear Creek
County Sheriff's Office who was the ones
who were dealing with this and at some
point they do have contact with Colorado
State Police and the Colorado State
Police they make some reasonable
statements to the the to the county
sheriff's office that the county
sheriff's office just didn't listen to
so at this point you know they've been
out with Christian for about an hour
um and it's clear that there is some
type of a mental health episode and it
seems by this point after an hour that
the idea of this being like a drunk
driver like that pretty much has passed
this this situation has turned into a
mental health case a mental health
incident so the Clear Creek County
Sheriff's Office was told by Colorado
State Police a couple things they said
well you know if he hasn't committed a
crime and he's not a danger to anyone
else which he wasn't because he was in
the car by himself and he's refusing to
get out of the car why force the issue
like why are we forcing if this is a
person who hasn't committed a crime why
are we going to use Force against him if
he hasn't done anything like we should
just leave so it was at that point that
the Colorado State Police left and they
didn't want any part of this and you
know with the conversation that was
recorded this is the advice that they
gave to the County Sheriff's Office and
this actually was pretty good advice So
eventually I think over 70 minutes have
passed now in the Clear Creek Sheriff's
office said they made the decision okay
so we're going to stop negotiating with
Christian and we're going to make the
decision to physically get him out of
the car and and and they they tell them
that they say if you don't get out of
the car you know we are going to get you
out of the car so that they do a couple
things
um they use a baton and they break out
the front drivers the front passenger
side window so they have uh so there's a
clear opening because Christian's in the
driver's seat from that position
um and from that position an officer
who's on the passenger side they you
they utilize less lethal Force options
against him they use a bean bag shotgun
and a taser also while this is going on
and if someone has ex someone has
experience with this definitely put it
in the comments but this is something
that I've never seen before so what one
officer did is an officer jumped on the
hood of the car and was pointing a gun
at Christian through the windshield
while all this was going on now I get
you have to have lethal coverage
especially if someone is armed with a
knife and especially if there's another
officer who was using less lethal such
as the bean bag shotkin or a taser so
yes you have to have a lethal option
there but the idea of an officer
standing on the hood for for one the
Optics of that are just terrible I mean
it looks absolutely insane also I'm not
sure where that was ever taught and then
let's talk about this from like a
reasonable Common Sense standpoint so it
wasn't that long ago in this case that
police officers were so afraid that
Christian was going to leave the scene
you know that the vehicle is mobile that
they were putting spike strips behind
the rear tires of the car so now at one
point we're afraid he's going to leave
we're putting spike strips behind the
car and now we're jumping on the Hoda
the car well if you think the vehicle is
operable or can move jumping on the hood
of the car makes absolutely zero sense
so we have a couple things going on so
we have the one officer who has smashed
out the front passenger side window
he's using a taser and a bean bag
shotgun coming from that side we have an
officer on the hood standing on the hood
pointing a gun at Christian through the
winched front and windshield of the car
and then we have another officer on the
driver's side so that they try to tase
him and it isn't it isn't he is tased
and it seems like it's working but I
mean imagine situation so so typically
what you want a taser to do is you want
to taser to incapacitate someone so they
can't fight back or resist for at least
a five second cycle and during that five
seconds you can gain control of them you
can get them in handcuffs and you could
end the situation peacefully but the
Christian was in so a taser isn't pain
compliance you don't use a Taser on
someone as pain compliance because
you're trying to get them to do
something like a taser has a goal okay
we're going to incapacitate this person
and once they're under control under
power of the taser we're going to get
them in handcuffs and this is going to
be over but Christian is sitting inside
of a car so if you're sitting inside of
a car and you're holding a knife there's
nowhere to fall to there's really no
place for the police officers to go so
the idea of using a taser and that
situation didn't make a whole lot of
sense a lot of things didn't make a
whole lot of sense but that's one of
them so while that while Christian is
being tased a police officer comes to
the front driver side door of the
vehicle and the window is is partly
rolled down the window's almost all the
way down well you know obviously so
Christian is having a mental health
episode he's you know being tased by
police officers he does have the knife
in his right hand and from his right
hand he kind of reaches across his body
and he starts swinging the knife so from
the body cam video possible it's hard to
see if he's just swinging in the knife
if the knife actually breaks the plane
of where of where the driver's side
window is it might but it might not
maybe he's just swinging near so it's
really difficult to tell but worst case
scenario let's say he's swinging the
knife near where the police officer is
because there was an officer by the
driver's side door and it was at that
point that he is shot by the police
officer who is standing on the hood and
he's shot five times and he dies and
this is we have to break this down and
look at what tactics did police officers
use for this to happen so I think we
have some reasonable questions we should
all have questions about this case Okay
so if we just back so those are the
basic facts that everyone kind of agrees
with now let's get a little bit deeper
because this is a big case an important
case and when we talk about cases like
this it's not that we want to just call
out bad police officers because we think
it's fun or it's not like we want to
just have like a reflex where we
automatically just support the police
officers it's neither we want to look at
this case in the middle and see exactly
what are the important questions that we
have to ask because listen if the police
officers messed up and it absolutely
seems like they did we want to call that
out and we want to say this is where
they messed up this is how they messed
up and then how can we get better how
can police officers get better and how
can we form Citizen Police
councils in order to and to get best
practice out there so this the idea is
to avoid this from happening again okay
so the first question I want to ask is
why were the police officers there so
were the police officers there for a
drunk driver or were they there for a
mental health call so if police officers
are there for a drunk driver that's a
criminal investigation that's a
reasonable lawful objective so if that's
the case then yeah they need to get
Christian out of the car now Christian
has a knife in his hand so it's one of
those things where yeah they couldn't
just extract him from the car because he
had a knife but but I just want to talk
about because there are some people
saying well the police officer shouldn't
have gone there at all well Christian
called so they had to go if at that
point they do suspect that there's
there's a crime that took place like
driving while intoxicated most police
department policies don't allow police
officers to say okay this drunk driver
he's too much of a pain in the ass so
we're just gonna leave so most police
department policies aren't going to
allow police officers to do that however
this did evolve into more of a mental
health case so now once this is a mental
health case which it seems like it was
or it seemed like the priority of
Christians mental health and the state
that he was in was superseded any DWI
driving while intoxicated investigation
so that's probably where it should have
gone and the fact that they called in
other resources it seems like that's
where the police officers were thinking
and that's good but Christian was armed
with a knife so let's think about it
this way there's no one else in the car
with Christian so he can't hurt anybody
else so the best friend of a police
officer especially if they're afraid of
the knife and police officers should be
afraid of knives you should not get
close to a knife if you're a police
officer but the best thing police
officers could do can do to make
themselves safe is time distance and
cover there's no shot clock there there
is no we have to get this done by the
end of shift no police officers work 24
7. so the idea that this has to get
wrapped up in a certain amount of time
doesn't make any sense so the the
decision from the police officers that
okay now is the time that we're going to
extract him we're not going to wait for
any other Mental Health professionals
we're not going to just back up and
we're not going to just back up and take
cover and try to try to get him on the
phone try to call Pa see if he has a
counselor so those are things that they
should have done but they they they
rushed it and that and that was a
mistake so let's also talk about the
idea that Christian
offered to throw the knife and the
hammer out of the car and the police
officers told him not so let's play both
sides of this so from 2020 hindsight
looking at this case most people are
going to be like yeah let him throw the
knife out of the car he's got these
dangerous weapons let him throw the
knife out of the car so from 2020
hindsight yes that's what they should
have done unfortunately police officers
in the moment don't have the benefit of
2020 hindsight so if we what if we think
about it this way what if Christian did
ask for police officers hey I'm going to
throw and Christian didn't have the
knife in his hand at this point okay so
Christian asked police officers you know
I want to throw my knife in my hammer
outside of the car well what if police
officers said yes so then essentially
they're giving Christian permission to
grab those weapons what if Christians
that are throwing them out of the car
what if he steps out of the car and then
he was planning on throwing them so you
can and then there's an officer involved
shooting so I guess what I'm saying is
you can imagine a situation where if
police officers give Christian any
permission to or or any kind of idea
that they want him to grab those weapons
and then something goes bad you can
imagine the criticism that police
officers would get then however if we
look at you know balancing balancing
this issue it just seems like in the
moment since Christian is in the car
he's not running around the street with
knives in his hand it just seems like
they could have given him clear
instructions like Christian you know
knives are dangerous the hammer is
dangerous can you please throw it out of
the passenger side window and it just
and if police officers I don't know that
just again it's I don't want to
criticize police officers with 20 20
hindsight but it just seems like that
would have been a reasonable thing to do
in the moment though the idea of police
officers giving him permission to handle
the knives at all I I get why police
officers might be apprehensive about
that but having Christian throw it out
it seems like that would have been a
reasonable thing if they gave clear and
concise instructions on what they wanted
him to do
um also um so we also talked about the
use of the taser so the the taser in
this situation it didn't really seem
that effective because he was in the car
he was contained wasn't like he was
going to go on the ground and be in in
incapacitated and also both probes of
the taser have to hit in order for it to
work so trying to shoot a taser through
a window it's going to be really hard to
get a good connection anyway so that
didn't make a whole lot of sense I think
we've talked about the officer standing
on the hood that doesn't make any sense
either I'm not sure where that's trained
again if police officers were afraid of
the knife which they absolutely should
be afraid of the knife why put yourself
in a that wasn't the only position where
there could have been lethal coverage
there they could have stood behind the
car they just like they would on a
traffic stop you know if a police
officer is afraid on a traffic stop you
never see them run to the front of the
car and jump on the hood and point a gun
through the windshield so that didn't
make any sense and again like I said
before especially if you think that the
car might be mobile so now if the car is
mobile as soon as Christian starts to
reverse or go forward or do any or even
start the engine you can imagine that
that would probably initiate an officer
involved shooting because the officer
would say well I'm on the hood of the
car you know I don't want to him to
drive away with me on it that could be
dangerous well yeah it could be
dangerous it's also officer-induced
Jeopardy if that happens so again that
does I'm not sure where they got that
training from if there is some training
that I've missed somewhere or some new
best practice put it in the chat because
it doesn't make this doesn't make any
sense
um also the biggest problem with this
case
they made a lot of mistakes but to me
the biggest problem with this case is
the officer who is by the driver's side
door listen if you are afraid of someone
with a knife which is reasonable which
you should be
since he's inside the car all you have
to do is stand three four five feet away
from the car and he can't get you with
that knife unless he throws it which he
didn't in this case so an officer
putting themselves in a position that
close to the knife is insane this
doesn't make any sense this is
absolutely officer-induced Jeopardy now
I should say you have to think about it
this way so the officer so that was the
in my opinion that was the big of all
the mistakes they made and there were a
lot the biggest mistake was the officer
by the driver's side door getting so
close to Christian while Christian was
holding a knife
but that isn't the officer who shot the
officer who shot was standing on the
hood so now let's look at it from the
perspective of that officer so these
officers they're not they're not in
tandem they're not communicating they're
not they're not they're not one person
the officer who's on the hood can't
control what the other officer does so
now we have a situation where the
officer is on the hood and he has a gun
poignant Christian in the moment we see
Christian with a knife swinging it at
the officer and the officer standing too
close and in that moment the police
officer fired a shot I'm not justifying
what the officer did I don't think that
this is a good situation I don't but it
doesn't seem like this is within any
policy but I at least want to put the
perspective out there that the officer
who made the biggest mistake in my
opinion standing too close is not the
officer who fired the shot so we have to
think about it that way so will there be
criminal charges filed against the
officer I don't know um this is for sure
a massive failure at least on a on a
civil level I went through all of the
mistakes that that I saw and I'm sure
that there's more that I missed all of
the mistakes that the police officers
made but in the moment was that shooting
so what they're going to look at about
to determine whether or not this
shooting was legal or not and I'll be
honest I don't have enough information
on this case we have the body cam video
I've listened to the family attorney
talk but I want to hear what the what
the statements from the officers are
before before I say yes I think this was
legal this was not I can say that it
looks bad I can say I'm sure this was
against Department policy but you know
whether or not criminal charges should
be filed against the officer that's a
pretty serious thing and there's a lot
to this case and I think that
complicated cases should be given a lot
of thought before someone says that
there should be criminal charges filed
so
what they're going to look at is they're
going to say okay in the Graham versus
Conor in the moment at the exact moment
that the police officer pulled the
trigger was the shooting objectively
reasonable would a different police
officer in a similar set of
circumstances have acted that same way
that's what they are going to look at so
let's see what kind of comments we get
on this case at all
um let's see
what are people's thoughts on this case
uh let's see so someone said they take
the job hoping to kill someone no police
officers do not take a job hoping to
kill someone if an officer is involved
in a shooting not only do police
officers not want to take any life they
risk their own Freedom they risk going
to jail so no police officer signs up to
be a police officer making not much
money and said you know what I want to
do I want to kill someone an innocent
person for no reason and end up in
prison for 20 years if you think that's
what the police are and be and I'm gonna
film it I'm going to record it all if
you think that's the thinking of police
officers then you'd never talk to a
police officer uh let's see gs38 says a
knife never jams or runs out of ammo God
that's such a such a good comment I
really appreciate that that is in that
is an excellent comment
um that's true so if Christian had
exited the vehicle and advanced on or
charged towards police officers and we
have a lot of cases like that that's all
in my mind that's always going to be a
Justified officer involved shooting
every single time if you approach
Advance attack threaten a police officer
with a knife and if it's a reasonable
fear that you a police officer could be
stabbed 100 percent that is a good a
good shooting but if you look at this
Christian is in the car he's by himself
he hasn't exited the car the officers
should have used time distance and cover
there was literally no shot clock there
was no reason for the police officers to
push the issue uh let's see interview
room says bad shoot yeah I think that's
I think that's that's probably the case
so so when you say bad shoot no is it
does that mean it's against policy that
means against the law does it just mean
just a common sense does this look bad
does it look problematic 100 it
absolutely does uh let's see
uh let's see if we have any any other
comments
let's see uh William Morgan Smith I
think they have good intentions but it's
the training or trainers of where they
are yeah I think that's uh that's a
really good comment
um because yeah so what was this was
this a breakdown in training was this a
breakdown in leadership it seems like at
least people from the Colorado State
Police said Hey listen like you know
think about some of the things he hasn't
committed a crime he's not a danger to
anyone else are we really going to force
this issue so it's never a good look for
a police officer to utilize Force no
matter what level against someone who
hasn't committed a crime remember that
that is and that is an important that is
an important theme uh Mark bechette said
zero de-escalation yeah so I think that
that thank you Mark so I think that they
used some de-escalation but was it
optimal no it absolutely wasn't because
um almost immediately it went from it
went from asking him to get out of the
car to threats I'm not saying that there
was unreasonable threats but you know it
base it wasn't they weren't taking this
case with the thought of just we have to
use Crisis Intervention training and
de-escalate this situation I think they
may be at the end or in the middle at
some point they did that but certainly
at first it was hey you need to get out
of the car if you don't get out of the
car we are going to get you out of the
car so um
uh yeah so I think that is uh
let's see any other comments here yeah
so I think that's reasonable that the
de-escalation wasn't great and that
seems like a training issue right um
okay so the next case that so that I
said that is a big case
um and this happened in June and no one
was talking about it until the the
family attorneys really did a good job
of getting this case out there in the
spotlight so any other comments
um uh you have definitely put it in
there and let's see
next is going to talk about is Brandon
Combs so this actually happened a while
ago um this was in Concord North
Carolina on February 13 2022.
um we are going to put a link to the
body camera video in the chat so
definitely go check that out now or
later and let us know what you think so
this is an interesting officer involved
shooting also with someone in a vehicle
so that that's that's kind of a theme
today and I want to know what people's
thoughts are on this so this was a case
going back to February 13th 2022 it
happened at a Nissan dealership so the
officer his name is Tim Larson and
essentially there was a call for service
at a Nissan dealership at night when a
Nissan dealership is closed officer
Larson he's by himself he gets to the
call for service and he finds Brandon
Combs who is a 29 year old man inside of
a vehicle at the at inside of a vehicle
at the at the Nissan dealership and you
know you know officer Larson gets out of
his car and he starts to approach the
guy inside the car and at this point you
can tell the police officer isn't sure
like is this an employee who's working
late is this a maintenance person is
this a manager
um that you know he's he's not really
sure because in most situations so it
breaking into a car that's considered a
felony so most of the time not all the
time but most the time when a police
officer arrives on scene and there's a
felony in progress that call for backup
they try to set up a perimeter so these
are the things that they try to do a
felony stop most of the time police
officers don't just approach people by
themselves without calling out for
backup when people are in commission of
a felony right so that's something that
typically doesn't happen but that's what
the officer did so that's what leads me
to believe that he really wasn't sure
what was going on one of the also thing
one of the other things is as officer
Larson was approaching Mr Combs in the
car he wasn't yelling at him or giving
him commands like get out of the car get
get your hands get your hands up so he
wasn't approaching him like that so
that's why it makes him that he wasn't
sure as officer Larson was approaching
Brandon Combs Brandon said something
strange he said something to the officer
to the effect of drop your web weapon
and that was confusing you know most
people that's something police officers
say right most citizens when they're
being approached by police officers
don't say drop your weapon I mean it's a
again it's a strange thing to say and
the police officer officer Larson he
kind of goes like what like what what
are you talking about it caught him off
guard because it was an odd thing to say
so police um officer Larson who goes up
to the vehicle in the parking lot that
Mr Combs in he's in the driver's seat
you know the officer knocks on the
window and at that point he realized
okay this guy's an offender he's trying
to steal this car he broke into this car
here at the dealership he gives him
commands to get out of the car he kind
of knocks on the window and Mr Combs
isn't listening he is not getting out of
this car so at this point the police
officer does the right thing he backs up
he Retreats and kind of what the officer
should have done the last time and he
goes behind another vehicle behind cover
because at this point he doesn't know
now he knows that Mr Combs is is you
know in offender in the commission of a
felony he doesn't know if he has any
weapons so you know he goes back behind
a vehicle he calls out for backup and he
gets some cover so he creates distance
um he distanced from Mr Combs which is
good time meaning if Mr Combs ran out
and you know tried to attack him like
he's giving himself some time he called
out for backup and he's behind cover
he's he stood behind a van these are all
good things well once he got back there
he was still giving Mr Combs commands
which again is appropriate because you
want you don't ever want people to say
well you know we weren't sure what the
police officer wanted us to do no he was
giving him commands to get out of the
car which is appropriate however this is
where things take a kind of a strange
turn so Brandon Combs gets out of the
car and he runs towards the police
vehicle so the way the police officer
stopped he didn't stop behind the Nissan
vehicle he stopped in front of it so
that's another reason to think that you
know he really didn't know what was
going on at first because you know you
really don't stop in front of a car and
approach someone from the front that
doesn't make sense if it's a felony in
progress but that's what the officer did
so as the officer is standing behind
cover Brandon Combs jumps out of the
vehicle and he runs towards the police
car the police car was unlocked he jumps
into the police car and as soon as that
happens the police officer runs after
him he gets on the radio and he he yells
out you know he's getting into my in
into my car once Brandon Combs gets in
the driver's seat of the car he revs the
engine doesn't doesn't and the car is
running at this point he doesn't move
forward but you can tell he steps on the
gas or he revs the engine and at that
point through the front windshield of
the car officer Larson shoots him four
times Mr Combs ends up dying so there's
a lot to this case and there's a lot of
problems the most most people have the
same question
why did you leave the car unlocked what
is going on there and so let's talk
about this so a lot of and I'm not
saying this was the case for officer
Larson in in Concord but a lot of police
departments the police car is there is a
way for a police vehicle to stay running
but for a police officer to take out the
key and to hit a button like a called a
kill switch hit a button to where the
car is still running so all the
computers and stuff stay going and stuff
like that but in order to actually start
the car to have it move you have to have
possession of the key I'm not saying
that was the case then so you know so if
that's what the officer did that's
reasonable but maybe he just left the
keys in the car I'm not I'm not sure
um I'm not in in a case like that it's
when uh when you have these kill
switches when the brake is pressed
that's when the that's when the car
shuts off so I'm not sure exactly what
type of vehicle he had but
um the D.A looked at the looked at the
case and just recently the reason why
this case was kind of Hit the media on a
national level now is the D.A just came
out and said that they are not going to
file charges against the police officer
and a lot of people are upset about this
and the D.A mentioned two reasons so the
D.A said that you know it's a reasonable
lawful Justified officer-involved
shooting if the police officer is in
reasonable fear of an immediate danger
so that's what the D.A said and the D.A
listed two reasons and they said and he
said the D.A said the police officer
there were two different reasons why the
police officer had a reasonable fear
that his life was in danger the first
reason is that
there are weapons in the car that there
was a rifle in the car you know police a
beanbag that there were police weapons
in the car and that of this individual
who had just committed a felony has
access to those weapons that would not
only be a danger to the police officer
but also to the public so then that gets
into more questions where are the
weapons locked or in some police you
know and sometimes you know you don't
have to have a key once you're in the
police car you you can hit a button
again and get access to any weapons that
are in there so you know what was that
security system there that was the first
reason the access to the weapons the
second reason that the D.A gave is that
since Brandon Combs was in the driver's
seat of the car that car is a weapon and
because the officer Larson was standing
in front of the car Mr Combs could have
used the car to RAM and run into the
officer
those were the two reasons given so when
I look at those reasons the first reason
is is pretty compelling like I get it
okay so you don't want an individual to
have access to police rifles and that's
what makes this a deadly force incident
I can kind of walk down that path and
that at least makes sense
um but the and I could see an argument
there for that the idea that
the officer was going to be struck by
his own car I don't buy that that isn't
that convincing here's why because the
police officer stood in front of the of
the car so it would have been very easy
for the police officer to stand on the
side of the car or behind the car so you
know you can't a police officer cannot
put themselves in front of a in front of
a car and say I'm afraid that you're
going to hit me and then use deadly
force so most police departments have
policies specifically prohibiting that
and that's typically called
officer-induced Jeopardy so the D.A did
list both of those reasons as to why
that the officer was not being charged
or why this officer-involved shooting
was reasonable and lawful but I really
think that the first reason is far more
compelling and then there's a third
reason that the D.A really didn't get
into that I I think this third reason is
more compelling than the officer maybe
being hit if an individual has access to
a police car not only do they have
access to the weapons but what kind of
damage what kind of Terror can they
Reign upon the community if you're in a
police car you have police lights you
have Sirens you you can listen to the
police radio and I know dispatch can
probably shut it off and like press the
master switch fine but you can imagine a
situation you know run Running Red
Lights maybe he would conduct traffic
stops on people so the idea that you
don't want someone who just committed a
felony driving around the city in a
police car I I get that makes sense to
want to stop that now is that a deadly
force situation I think that's a stretch
so I think that the best reason if this
is Justified and according to the
district attorney this this is a
Justified shooting it has to be that
first reason that by getting into the
police car he had immediate access to
weapons so there is a lot of a lot of
outrage a lot of outrage
um about that about that case and let's
see what people's comments are uh let's
see
Shane says just because you have an
accent doesn't mean you need to meet
your maker that was from the previous
case no we know you are correct um I
think that's an absolute accurate
statement let's see uh the da Vinci what
are your thoughts on the Clear Creek
shooting of the man and Mental Health
crisis Da Vinci that was the first case
we covered so go go back and watch this
later we probably did 15 to 20 minutes
on it because that is the most important
case of the week but we we did cover
that case already today let's see if we
have any other comments about what do
people think let's see William Morgan
Smith while my dad's truck I took the
keys I made it one block out of the key
range yeah yeah exactly so if that's not
the case should that be a case
um so you know in order for police
officers to not have their police car
stolen or anything like that you know
should there be some type of shut off
that maybe they could do at the police
station or through uh dispatch or
something like that is there a way to
like a master shut up for these police
cars because no one should be again I
have no sympathy for people who are
stealing police cars you have to know
that something bad is going to happen to
you but should that be a death sentence
no of course not that shouldn't be a
death sentence so you know is there
something that the police can do that
the government can do on a policy level
or on a practical level like hey if this
happens we do have a kill switch for all
of these cars somehow we can shut it off
I know that they can shut off Police
radios so maybe there is some technology
there in order to save lives for when
this happens because if you steal a
police car you have the punishment for
that that's a felony I don't know how
many years in prison should probably be
a lot but it shouldn't be death um so I
think that I think we all think that's
that's reasonable uh let's see uh let's
see Adam Golson uh I know my department
isn't shelling out for that sort of tech
Adam are you sure Adam is a real smart
guy
um I'm not yeah they're probably not
going to sell for that kind of tech all
right um so the third case that I want
to talk about is and I'm only it's an
older case but the reason that I'm
mentioning it is because it is so
similar to the case that we just talked
about in Concord um this happened in
Phoenix there Arizona back in March of
22. when this happened in March of 22 I
I covered it and I talked about how
problematic that I thought it was and I
honestly think that this case is more
problematic than the one that we just
did so this was
Phoenix Arizona March 12 2022 the
individual's name is Adam vespoli he was
killed by he was killed by a Phoenix
police officer Adam was 39 years old so
what happened in this case is there was
a call for service about two individuals
sleeping on a bus the bus driver called
because apparently it's against some
city ordinance or something that
oh Tilly and Taylor you know what I
missed a part of that last case so I'm
going to backtrack for a second talleen
Taylor thank you so much talene says my
question is why the officer now want to
answer questions after the shooting
thank you so much so I I forgot to
mention this part of this last case of
the of the case in Concord so so the the
shooting was ruled Justified however the
officer was fired so all the information
that we have is that the officer was not
truthful or gave untruthful statements
to investigators during the
investigation of this officer involved
shooting so typically when there's an
officer involved shooting there's two
different investigations there's a
criminal investigation by the DA's
office and and by other law enforcement
agencies that are separate from where
the the officers own agency and then
there's an administrative
review of the case to see if there were
any police department policies so this
though a lot of people say oh police are
just investigating themselves there's
nothing that's going to happen well well
here's a perfect example of this is that
is that the D.A looked at the case and
did not charge the officer but on its
own the police department fired the
officer for untruthful statements about
the case I'm not saying that the officer
made untruthful statements I don't even
know what they're saying was untruthful
but that is the reason that the officer
was terminated it was for making
untruthful statements that's the
allegation from the police department so
my guess is there is going to be uh
litigation there
um on on behalf of the of the police
officer who officer Larson who was
terminated but yeah so exactly why he
didn't want to answer questions or
um you know what what he said was
untruthful I don't know tilling Taylor
but thank you so much for reminding me
about that but yeah again that's a
perfect example of when people say oh
they're going to investigate themselves
and find they did nothing wrong well
this is actually the absolute opposite
the independent D.A said that the
officers actions were fine but the
internal review administrative review by
the police department that's what got
the officer terminated okay so now on to
the similar case Adam vespoli if Phoenix
Arizona Zona from March 12th Adam
vespoli another individual were sleeping
on a bus in Phoenix apparently that's
some violation of city ordinance or law
some misdemeanor crime police officers
were called There's No One On The Bus
except these two individuals who were
sleeping this is on day shift it's in
the middle of the day police officer
Parks his car behind the bus he enters
the bus on the on the to the front
entrance the closest to the driver he
contacts the driver and the driver says
hey you know these guys are sleeping so
so you know the police officer basically
just yells them hey you guys can't sleep
here you have to go wasn't rude what
didn't say I'm gonna cite you I need
your IDs I'm going to run you for
warrants so and again that would be
within the right of the police officer
but the officer didn't do that he said
did you guys need to go he didn't even
walk towards them didn't try to search
them he just kind of yelled at them from
the front and what didn't swear wasn't
rude again just said hey you guys can't
sleep here you have to go
he's by the front of the bus the two
individuals including Adam vespoli exit
the bus from the rear of the bus so the
back entrance of the bus so the officer
is still standing kind of by where the
bus driver is the two individuals leave
as the individual leads the back of the
bus you know where this is going because
of the last case Adam vespoli goes to
the police car and he gets into the
driver's seat so the police car was
unlocked it was running and the keys
were in the ignition the police officer
can see this from the front of the bus
so he runs out and as he runs out he
approaches the driver's side he takes
out his gun so as he's running he pulls
out his handgun the driver's side window
is about halfway down maybe
a third or fourth of the way down but
maybe close to halfway down let's say so
as the police officer and we are going
to put the body cam video for in the
chat as well for this but so as the
police officer is running towards his
own car this is an SUV so it has a
running board the officer as he's coming
up to the car with his gun in his hand
he puts one foot on the running board of
the car and almost immediately as soon
as he puts his foot on the running board
the car takes off at a high rate of
speed while the officer's foot is on the
running board almost simultaneously as
the vehicle starts take off the police
officer puts his gun through the open
window and shoots Mr Mr vespoli two
times Mr vespoli crashed and he and he
died
there was a lot of outrage about this
case for almost the same reasons of the
case that we had before such as why are
police officers leaving the car unlocked
if the car is unlocked why are they why
is the why is the why are the keys in
the ignition like how this is Phoenix
Arizona it's high crime time how in the
world can a police officer make a
mistake like this and then the question
is well okay a police officer did make
this mistake and someone committed the
crime which is a serious crime I don't
know how many years in jail you should
do for it but it should be something for
stealing a police car is that deadly
force you know is that a deadly force
situation so we have to ask ourselves as
a community as a society because we as
Citizens We're the ones who elect people
who make the policies for police
departments so we have to ask ourselves
if someone steals a police car and I
already went over here's all the bad
things that could happen if someone
steals a police car they could use the
police lights they could do traffic
stops and who knows what kind of Havoc
they could wreck on on on on on the
community if they have that power not to
mention any weapons that are inside the
vehicle so knowing that if someone makes
that decision to steal a police car as a
community as a society how do we want
police officers to react now I know
ideally police officers don't get your
[ __ ] car stolen I know I get it but
if that happens what do we want police
officers to do do we want police
officers to utilize deadly force in a
situation like that I don't know I I
lean towards no we don't we can use
spike strips we can there's a lot of
things that we can do before deadly
force if it's just someone stealing a
police car so that's my opinion on it is
that that shouldn't happen
so
um the D.A is looking at this case um
one of the things that happened in
Maricopa County is that the D.A was
either I think the D.A resigned after
this case happened so there is a new D.A
there and I think there's 50 or so
serious use of force cases by police
officers that the DA's office is trying
to get their way through so there is no
charging decision yet on the police
officer but the family of Adam vespoli
is is trying to is trying to get charges
filed um you know his family has said
kind of reasonable things that you would
expect a family to say and they're
saying you know like um Adam had a drug
problem that's why he was sleeping on
the bus he was actually trying to get to
our house we were trying to get him some
help but he just didn't have his life
together the family says I don't know
why he stole a police car I I can't I
can't the family said I can't justify
that like it doesn't make any sense but
it shouldn't be a death sentence it
shouldn't be a death sentence and it
seems like on the side of the that's
what the family said the sign the police
like how do you leave your vehicle
unlocked you made a mistake you left
your vehicle unlocked yes Adam did
something wrong he shouldn't have taken
it but really it was your fault this
happened and now he lost his life so um
I I could see that that perspective uh
let's see uh Adam it's an interesting
comparison between using deadly force
stop the person from taking the police
vehicle versus the dangers of initiating
a vehicle pursuit to stop yeah no I
think that's a that's a really good
thing because we want to avoid police
Pursuits right like worst case worst
case scenario is he's in a police car
and he it's it's a high speed chase it's
the middle of the day and he's doing 80
miles an hour through intersections
putting everyone else in danger yeah I
know you can't have a situation like
that so you don't again you don't want
it to get there but can you just shoot
someone through the through through the
driver's side window before that's a
difficult question to ask because I lean
on the side of no but um that the
decision we're going to have to make um
so we don't have a charging decision on
that one in Arizona it'll be interesting
to see if this officer is charged and
because the other officer is not being
charged with criminal charges in Concord
so it'll be it'll be interesting to see
let's see uh d mauld maldill uh
something to consider is even though
they had a strip that doesn't make him
stop from driving posing a dangerous uh
reckless driving yeah okay so I think
that makes sense even if officers had a
spike strip like yeah that might not
work you know maybe only one of the
tires catch you can still drive if you
know one of your tires is kicked out you
can still hit another car you could kill
a pedestrians so yeah that isn't a A
catch-all or that isn't an absolute
savior uh let's see uh Ozzy tanks uh
what if the cop didn't do that the guy
drove off in the SUV and bled through a
stop sign and killed a bunch of kids
then what oh you should have shot that
I'm not sure what that says but I I
think what the I think so Aussie things
I'm not sure what you're saying but but
let's put this let's say there was an
officer involved shooting and there was
in this case and he did drive off Adam
vespoli stood because he was shot as he
was driving off any crash so you know
what if he was shot by the police
officer and he was dying the car's out
of control and that's why someone an
innocent pedestrian was killed well
obviously that would be even a or
situation than we have now uh William
Morgan Smith let him run out of gas and
uh and then he used the GPS yeah I think
that's I think that's reasonable okay so
William Morgan Smith that's a great
thing so maybe when this happens maybe
police officers shouldn't just Chase
they should follow him by the helicopter
or by whatever or whatever technology
GPS that they have and that's a better
way to do it because like I said you
don't want a high speed chase 80 miles
an hour in the middle of Phoenix in the
middle of the day you can't have that so
okay uh let's see why can't they just
shoot the tires uh good question Ruby
thank you for asking that so they can't
shoot well you can shoot the tires it's
not it's not a great idea so so here's
why so it's dip tires are small objects
they're moving and a lot the basic I can
say is they're difficult to hit so
um and any person a police officer a
non-police officer if you are in a
stressful situation which this would be
trying to hit a small moving Target is
almost impossible so if you're not going
to hit the tires then what are you
hitting those rounds are going somewhere
so it's almost never a good idea for
police officers to shoot the tires of a
vehicle
um because again those rounds are going
somewhere and they're probably not going
into the tires uh let's see uh
uh Aussie tanks oh my goodness Ozzy uh
let's see okay so um the other case that
I want to talk about and this was an
interesting one I think we have a short
video um so this was taken from uh this
was taken for from a cell phone video of
someone in a vehicle but this is a
really interesting case so you know they
always talk about like Florida man well
like listen I've never been to Arkansas
but if I have a picture like just a a 10
second snapshot of what I think Arkansas
is like this is it this is this case I
apologize kind after anyone who's from
Arkansas so this was this happened on
September 6th um and it's an off-duty
police officer uh who's named Travis
Adams he's uh an Adair County uh Sheriff
he's off duty and he lives on some
property his wife and his kids are there
he also doesn't have a shirt on
um an individual and you know it's part
of his job as a police officer Travis
used to work in the county jail so at
one point I think during his training he
did a phase at the county jail
um I guess that's what they do in this
particular
um uh Sheriff's Department so while he
was while he was there an individual
named Justin Heller h-e-l-l-y-e-r Justin
Heller came to his residence now the
off-duty police officer he rents this
house he's rented this property from a
long time um the individual Justin
Heller who came to his house he is the
landlord's stepson so he's not the
landowner he's not the property owner
he's not the landlord but he's related
to the landlord and he used to be an
inmate at the jail so at this point it
there is some history between these two
but it's unknown if they if they know
each other from that you know uh the
officer being working at the jail and
then Justin being an inmate at the
justice so it's unknown if that's where
how they know each other but definitely
through the fact that Justin's family
owns the property that is being rented
by the off-duty police officer so all we
have is cell phone body camera so the
off-duty police officer who's standing
without a shirt on I only keep saying
that because when you watch the video
without any context it's really
difficult to tell well who's the
off-duty police officer and who's the
person who used to be an inmate it's
really difficult to tell
um unless you unless you kind of know
who's wearing what so that's why I keep
mentioning that so so the off duty
police officer doesn't have a shirt on
and he has a gun in his right hand
um and he's going back and forth with
um Justin who's there Justin's trying to
get on the property he wants to inspect
the property and the off duty police
officer is saying you have to leave you
have to leave my property he tells them
multiple times to get out at some point
and again a police officer is holding a
handgun in his right hand during all
this not hiding it he's not concealed
he's holding a handgun at some point
during this you know maybe 30 or 40
seconds into the video
um Justin takes his right hand and he
puts it on the throat of the officer and
he's not you know not both hands but one
hand and he's his hand is wrapped around
the officer's neck and he kind of pushes
him back a couple steps at that point
the officer just raises his right hand
and shoots him twice in the abdomen uh
who's ever taken the cell phone video it
seems like it's the family of just
question of them no he wasn't killed
okay he's just injured so it seemed like
it was the wife or girlfriend or some
female family member or friend of the
individual who was shot because she says
I got that on tape I can't believe you
did that and the police officer yells
and responds like yeah he was grabbing
my throat so um there's an investigation
the police officer has been put on leave
but I'm curious to see what does anyone
think um so this could be a really good
case for stand your ground law which
they have in Arkansas so is this a stand
your ground law so I don't know what
that exact law is but most of the time
what it says is that if you are in fear
of of of death or great bodily injury or
some serious injury and you are in a
place that you were supposed to be or
can be you do not have to retreat you
can defend yourself so if we break that
down a little bit he's at his own home
he absolutely has a right to be there
someone grabbing your throat is that a
deadly for is that uh let's see uh so
the okay so let's talk about the Arizona
law so
um the errors are I'm sorry the Arkansas
law for stand your ground uh this bill
eliminated the duty to Retreats prior to
the use of physical Force even lethal
force in an act of alleged self-defense
yeah so I had that about right so
is that
a situation where the off-duty police
officer feels like he's in danger well
someone's hand is around your neck if
they know what they're doing or if they
can make you pass out or choke you you
have a gun in your hand so if you pass
out or lose control of the gun now the
other person has the gun so I think this
is probably
um going to fall within the stand your
ground and especially because the
officer told him he didn't bait him to
come on the property he didn't trick him
to come on the property he was telling
him to leave his wife and his kids were
there he wanted this guy to leave this
guy wouldn't leave his property and then
put his hand around the off-duty police
officer's neck at that point there was a
shooting to me that seems like it's
reasonable I doubt that there are going
to be any criminal charges for this
particular case but it was one that just
hit the news and the video just came out
interesting so I think we did put the
link to the video in there it's short
it's like a minute watch it and check it
out for sure so the last
big case that I wanted to talk about
today was something that's that's that
happened
um it's an only Fan's case so there's a
Detroit police officer whose name is
Janelle zelinski she was a a Detroit
police officer and she only had on a
couple years well apparently she had an
only Fan's account and because of her
only fans accounts she was invested
put on leave and she was suspended from
her job as a police officer it seemed
like the police department was going
down the route of firing her however she
resigned before that so I think we are
going to put up a link to her page
because she lost her cop job and looking
at it it looks like she has 1100
subscribers or followers or whatever it
is there at 15 a month now I'm not great
at math but I think that's a that's
around sixteen thousand dollars a month
my guess is sixteen thousand dollars a
month it's way more than she was making
as a police officer in in Detroit
Michigan so it's kind of a funny case
because you know police officer having
and only fans accounted I mean that's an
interesting the funny case I think it
was covered by the police Tribune and
some other places but it really brings
about a more serious issue and that's I
kind of like to look at these cases that
are interesting and think what are the
bigger picture issues so the bigger
picture issue in this case is off-duty
conduct of police officers so you think
so well okay so she eat on her own so
let's break this down so on her only
fans account she never said that she was
a police officer nothing with the
Detroit police it was all done off duty
so if you're doing and it's not illegal
okay this isn't a crime it's not illegal
it's a completely legal thing for her to
do so she is doing something legal off
duty and not mentioning that she is a
and not mentioning that she is a police
officer I think that she was like a
professional bodybuilder so you know she
kind of you know that so using it was
the it was the bodybuilding stuff is the
way that you know she started us and
kind of marketed it um is what is what
we're getting from from the new stories
she's off duty and it's 100 legal to do
how does her employer the government the
police department have anything to say
about what she does off duty that's the
interesting issue and that's where
there's always a gray area so a lot of
police departments will say probably
most police departments have some type
of clause that have like a morals um uh
have a moral a moral
part of their policy you have to follow
certain morals you have to hold yourself
to a higher standard even off duty and
when police officers almost always get
in trouble is when there's any link to
the off-duty conduct and the police job
if there's any kind of a link that's
when police officers get in trouble and
here's the link in this case so even
though her only fans account did not
have even though her only fans account
did not have anything about being a
police officer she had a link to her
only fans account
in her Instagram
and on her and it was only fans it's
behind a paywall so you can't see unless
you unless you pay but there was a link
to that only fans account
in her Instagram and on her Instagram
she had stuff about being a Detroit
police officer and stuff about her in
uniform so there's the link right there
now because she's she resigned instead
of was fired this probably won't go to
court um as like a wrongful termination
case so if it did if she was terminated
then she could sue the department for
wrongful termination and these are the
kinds of case I think are interesting
because I'm always curious to see what
would a judge say
um so but because she resigned you
really can't unless she claims that
there was you know harassment or some
other some other discrimination against
her why she had to resign
um so I mean there could obviously there
could be legal action that way but you
know a typical wrongful termination case
we're not going to get that here in this
case just because of because if she
resigned but I thought that was I
thought that was interesting
um and yeah I think Detroit police
officers make somewhere between 36 000
to 53 000 a year so um yeah she's gonna
make that money in the next three months
so yeah uh let's see and this isn't the
first time uh this isn't the first time
that this has happened before
um with with with with uh female police
officers
um I I remember from years ago there
were other police officers who had done
other types of videos who they found out
later on who were fired and those police
officers weren't there was stuff in the
past they weren't actively promoting it
at the time so um and those officers
were fired I know it was years ago so
this that she was ABS I think it was an
officer recently in El Paso who had a
similar situation but she was actively
promoting it at the time so we wish her
the best and um yeah we'll see if there
is some type of a discrimination claim
where she felt that she had to resign
because of this this or this so
um yes uh it'll be it'll be interesting
uh let's see so those were the main
cases that I that I wanted to I wanted
to uh talk about today
um so I just want to put it out there
that you know for some reason you don't
want to subscribe to her only fans
account just make sure that you do
subscribe to Cops and cons TV that's
really the important one for you okay
because we'll go ahead and fill you in
and all this stuff so those were the
main cases today that we wanted to go
through I really appreciate the
involvement from everyone we got some
really good questions and comments um
again definitely subscribe to our
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everyone has a great weekend be safe