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who do you work for
i work for department homeland security
dhs
what does that stand for enforcement
removal operations
what is your position or your title uh
deportation officer
since 1988 may 98
yeah this is my last year is it yeah
that's not the way i wanted it
so you're going out uh uh with hector or
winter
we're gonna in december 17th are you
gonna do the whole year
yeah yeah i'm gonna do the whole year
yeah okay well yeah that's the plan
all right uh what's that do you know why
you're here uh yes but this is
okay that happened on uh
the fourth of february yes this year um
so what can you tell me about that what
was your involvement
okay so that morning
um myself
matt rodriguez and
tom belcher
we were at the uh at the office
and uh we were gonna do surveillance
so matt and tom got in the surveillance
van
they were gonna go set up south i
believe of the target's house
and i was gonna be a little bit north of
there
to follow any vehicles just to kind of
get you know see where they're going
um he called out a vehicle i followed it
i lost it came back
and then he calls out another vehicle i
follow it i lose it because i was by
myself
okay a little while later uh israel
signs
he's with lunatania so he gets on the
radio and says hey
um i'm available what's going on so we
tell them hey trying to follow these
vehicles
we do a group text and send out pictures
so we know what to look for
um he finds it the
vehicle so he would say i've got a good
spot i'm going to set up on it
so i parked at the hospital um
matt and tom are still at the house
watching it
and then uh so they go there is he
or yeah israel pogba's there and then uh
at some point he says hey i see him
and he goes i saw a gun i saw him hand
up a nurse i saw some
a gun so we're like okay we know now who
said that
israel okay he like said he had eyes on
that on the house itself
um so we sit there wait
and we're just kind of doing a group
text talking on radio
um then uh
uh joshua and lotter he's another
specialist he comes on there and says
hey
uh where do i need to go or so
he set up east of town at the holiday
and i believe
and then a little while later um dominic
magellani
the other especially he said hey i'm
available too
so they both set up on the east side of
town
at some point josh said hey i have to
cut out so don took a point
there on the east side of town
and um so we just sat there basically he
said hey let's just not spook him guys
let's just
understand i believe
it was israel that called out said hey
that white truck is leaving
okay um i don't recall if he said he was
in it or not but
you know he goes well let's just see
where it goes a few minutes later
dom calls out the truck he says hey the
truck's getting on the road it's headed
east on i-10
okay so i break off
where i'm at and i get on my tent start
heading
to back him up matt
calls me on the radio says hey dude just
step back
and park at the holiday in case he's not
in the vehicle
and you know it's somebody else it's all
right
so i pull off i wait on there for a
couple minutes
so
eddie pacheco my group supervisor he
calls me on the phone
and he says hey uh about a case that i
had
and i started talking to him and then i
hear dom
just yell out officer down
i don't know if i heard it once or twice
but
i told eddie with paycheck i said hey
dude did you hear that
you lost it don't just yell the officer
down
i threw my phone and got on i-10
um i was calling out the mile markers
87 you know just to let them know
at this point i didn't know all right
heard was
mom or i think he said one or two
somebody said one or two um i didn't
know what was going on
i just i hugged ass um i never heard dom
again
i think he might have at one point said
something i can't catch up to him
so i'm calling out the mile markers
um i think eddie or somebody
said something i said hey i'll be i'm
going to be there in like 10 seconds
um i get to mile marker
i see that rio grande rio grande
something transport
medical transport so i i had no
i saw the unit and i so i didn't know
what to do so i stopped
and then i think i said hey on scene
i get out and i see the driver of that
van
off on the side and as soon as i look to
my right i see the officer
and the two guys you know working on an
officer so
i run up there
i think i yelled at hsi because we were
i wasn't playing clothes and
just you know the way everything was
going and they looked up at me
and i said hey man what's going on well
i mean like
grab some clothes and i started helping
with cpr
bagging them and uh israel signs was
on the access road on the shoulder road
and
he was just i think he told me at one
point he goes look
i didn't go because i didn't know this
guy's to turn around
so i just provided cover for these guys
so he stayed off on the side
we're doing cpr they said they already
called 911
at some point eddie and chris show up
i just look up and i see them still
doing you know
underneath ems shows up
and then they take over um
the native arabs where their helicopter
arrives
and by then people started showing up
and i just turned over you know the
paramedics and
everybody was there so i just that's
when i walked away
and i just stood up to the side
you know
i just need to get it out
um when did you guys start putting this
operation together
it was the uh actually the day before
we stayed out late to see if we could
catch them coming in from arizona
so we were out that night um
and that's when the way i understood is
that everything was going to happen
either
at the lows i guess i didn't know about
the teenager later on
okay so
our thing was basically since we were
kind of a skeleton crew was like look
just
follow him shadow him and make sure that
he he makes it
you know two cruises or wherever let vic
did you see do his thing
and then we would just back off okay
um so yeah i
when i heard he was stopped
i wasn't sure what to think because matt
was handling everything we were just
basically
the support um
you know so i i don't that i have no
idea
how you know officer bear was there
um i don't know that
i can't give an answer to that okay
um
were you did you have knowledge about
the briefing the following morning
i know they were going to brief in las
cruces
and so to keep some of us back
we didn't we had no uh we
yeah as far as the briefing for us we
didn't have that i couldn't you know it
was just basically that night
and where they waited and finally and i
said hey dude i guess you made it into
town
so let's just quite knock off and then
you know all started in the morning
and that was that was about it until
like i said the following morning we
came in
and it was just us three so i texted
eddie i said hey man we're going out
we're gonna
sit on the house and wait for let's see
what happens in the two four
so the following morning you were just
sitting on the house doing all that uh
yeah
surveillance and all that's trying to
follow
um how much information was provided to
him about the suspect
and uh our target um you know i mean we
saw his
you know his picture stuff and we knew
that he was a night fella
um that he did some time in prison okay
um when we did the first bywalk
i heard somebody said that he had told
either one or vic
you know because they saw the gun and
they're sending pictures just to know
hey
because the whole fit knocked things out
you guys you know they can't let that
walk
so at that point we're like okay we're
going to get ready just in case
and then after the fact after we come
back you know he
gets the fentanyl um
somebody said that said hey you know he
had mentioned i'm not going back
so we're okay well then he's you know
serious business um
so that's what we knew about him and you
know that's why
we're just going to let srt do the
takedown
so we just couldn't do the support so
that's the way you you anticipated or
you're provided the the
ops plan was to take down increases that
was the
that's it so to your knowledge were you
guys anticipating the traffic stop
being conducted
i don't know if about that i just know
that um i guess
wherever they're going to meet that's
when they're going to take it down i
believe but
you know if they actually did do the me
srt was going to hit the car or a truck
or whatever it was in
okay the traffic stop i'm not too sure
on that i don't know that's you know
because
matt was handling all that we were just
kind of the support
to basically you tell vehicles that
would leave
at least whatever he needed so he
wouldn't move from his surveillance
position
yeah because they were sitting there and
we didn't know what you know he had
already switched up vehicles i guess
from
from what they're saying is that he came
in that white truck as opposed to that
silver suv or whatever that he used to
drive so
at that point we're like okay well let's
see what he needs in
you know
[Music]
joe did you have any contact with any
state police officers or anything like
that
so um trey reed
i call him big country yeah you know
um when we're following him around i had
texted him and i said hey bc good
morning what's going on
and then he replies tara grande what's
up
i say you can help us with this op and
he said
i don't know what you're talking about
and
like i don't know you know
we've been friends for a long time and i
said hey dude come on you're white
you're tall
you know what's going on you know he
goes no no dude seriously what's going
on
and then i didn't reply to him again
because we started following him
when i got when we're at the scene he
pulls up and he looks at me
and i'm like just you know it's like
he's like oh
i guess it dawned on him okay this is
what i was talking about when i texted
him
earlier in the morning but i never
talked about just
you know i just figured hey are you are
you are you in on this op then
he's like i know what you're talking
about okay so
other than trey reed uh did you speak to
anybody else
oh no yeah
okay
and he didn't know anything about what's
going on i mean he just really i don't
what are you talking about
yeah and then i i didn't reply to him
again because we you know
okay from the trucker
how are you what was your means of
communication when you guys were out
there in in dinner
so in demi we're on our radio little car
so you guys are using the radio the
radio edtex
just because they were set so they could
put stuff out you know
and then hey i'm over here i think i saw
him go by walmart or
i'll sit here and wait so text and radio
do you know if that communication was
being relayed anything being happening
and then
was it being related to the cruises if
tom
and matt were doing it i i wasn't aware
because
our thing was just to try to follow them
yeah
okay so we didn't so the text thread
that you guys had was just for you guys
that day was just it was just a story
and i picked in israel
and i think dom and those guys
eventually got
included in the group text
now over the radio can you hear uh like
the local agencies
no because i mean it's just us we're
just on fight bravo and it's just
just to avoid any other chatter and
people walking around so it was just it
was just us doing more
talking so over that radio you wouldn't
hear the stop being made or anything
oh no no that that was no okay
yeah um
is there anything else you can think
about that day
no i mean
like i said i we at least i
was under the impression that everything
would have been very crucial
that's christmas you know i mean we were
told they just stayed back and
let them do their thing um would you
support
because we weren't marked or anything
just just to not hink the guy up
yeah and that was
and what were you driving that thing my
uh it's that traverse that
it's a silver traverse okay
no lights nothing on it it does and i
had my lights on but i've been said no
more it's a uc vehicle
so
so who was our case student uh matt
rodriguez and his kind of person in
charge
um hector with them okay
do you know if any other agencies that
were going to be assisting with you guys
at all
other than obviously the esl yeah um
it was just us our hsi
state police that was it
if anything else was needed that's what
we were that's some information
yeah just gonna state police was gonna
do the stop or it was going to go down
at the um whatever happened
at the meet you know was there a
specific mile marker that you
know that they said that stakeholders
was going to do the stop or
no no like you said it was it was fluid
you know just okay because
we just they didn't know what this guy
was rolling with the ball yeah
they were gonna go you know just just go
with it
what happens it happens okay
yeah you said it's uh
did you know that it was supposed to be
two cars or just one state police
officers that was that no
i don't know it wasn't like a dress or
anything no
i mean if it was addressed in cruces at
the briefing
like i said we were you were all
yesterday
making sure okay
and you mentioned that you said uh
israel saw him with a gun
i believe he saw yeah when uh
i don't know if it was the target or the
other his associated herself
but he mentioned hey i saw a gun okay
you know and his waist pants or
something
okay and that's when he was doing
surveillance or yeah is he is he
vehicle right he found yeah the two the
truck in the red
car and then eventually the white truck
they all met at a house
there in town
okay joe um i don't have any other
questions if
we went over hopefully the questions we
had do you think can you think of
anything
but for sure you guys weren't provided a
copy of like any other powerpoint
show that they had during the the ops
meeting you know
no i mean the first time we saw the ops
plan the initial buy walk and then that
was it but
um i think mark uh
he did he he said he meant he did a
powerpoint thing we never saw that
because
obviously we stayed back we didn't email
it to you guys or anything like that no
no that just it's going to be probably
just our timing we're
you know those guys are going to do the
hit
so based on your knowledge how many how
many people like
from your agencies were involved in this
our our whole office your whole office
the rack office and then i don't know
how many they pull from here from las
cruces
okay because i understand they have
people from possible coming also
well that was srt i mean if they had
other agents
i okay well i don't know
does it remember you could estimate
about 100 people from nature oh
it's a word nine
fourteen that should be wrong yeah okay
so um
joel uh thank you for coming uh i'm
gonna say i don't have any other
questions super
there's good good information for us um
better understanding as to what happened
i'm sorry you have to go through what
you
don't know um so i i think you were
there
on scene um we talked to
john kennedy
did he give you a statement
yeah i i interviewed him there that day
and then i also got the statement from
you
so he came in yesterday peer support
came out to talk to us
and uh i said hey man come on down
and you know you need to talk because he
was he
saw more than we did yes um and he asked
me he goes hey dude am i gonna are they
gonna reach out to me again
state police they said you know what
that i don't know i said i know
that's why i had to put your number and
i don't know so i don't know if you guys
are yeah i think we might reach out to
him again just to
clarify some things as we get more
information and
what we learned about the stop maybe he
might have seen something else
that he didn't recall that day but yeah
we
probably will reach out to him again um
but yeah i do have this number and
everything so
i just you know i mean
this sucks man you know
i can still see him
i guess well we'll get some closures
friday but
there's still six balls man you know
well man we just it's like like you said
i was there i saw him too
and like that you saw him
like yeah earlier than me and he saw him
closer to my history
yeah i was i was a paramedic
so when i got there i mean even seeing
the womb
it's like we don't give up man yeah
you know and then
you must get there the helicopter and
finally one of the guys said look i
think you need to call it
that was hard to hear you know
but now we'll get to it another just
if you need to talk right here we're
here for you okay
the guys that went through it the ones
that were the best ones to talk to
because
they understand more than anybody else
you know
yeah um like i said i talked to one
yesterday
i was that was also proud for patrolling
people
just you know
you know they're reaching out to me so
you know
slowly you know and at least it's
comforting knowing that
you've got people yeah
i don't know your family but yeah
get your mind clear it helps i mean it's
very little but
it's something that will give you you
did everything you possibly could and
there's nothing you could have done more
that you know there's nothing else you
could have done and you did everything
you possibly could so
just leave with that satisfaction that
you did everything you possibly could in
your
power i appreciate that yeah
could use your family as a yeah
we've been some talking and because they
live in el paso you know
um i'll be there this weekend so it's
like okay we'll see
whatever we can do it's just crap you
know have a little cookout or something
just nothing going on here
the most important is the number one
right there
but i hope that helps with this whole
thing
yeah it's very fine or fill in the
blanks i don't know
it did help a lot thank you for coming
in
like say if you need anything from us
let us know just reach out
okay um so with this guy john
this this is i guess a side note uh
we were talking to him yesterday he had
to take the day off because it's silver
and from how he made his son his uh
his agency i guess
i don't want to speculate or so but it
didn't sound like he has a lot of
support
so he had to take the day off so um
he got an email and i guess lcpd is
providing
some services correct and we told him
about that uh give him the contact
number
come down here tell me to come down here
it's a little ways out but you know what
uh we have good support down here we got
good people
that he can you know talk to yes and
that have been in similar situations
maybe not exactly
right but still emotional and stressful
and that can definitely share
information on how they
they dealt with their incident yeah he
said he smelt
a gunfire yeah potter and then
whatever he told you he said a little
bit yesterday was like
yeah he i remember him because he he
couldn't drive because
he stayed there for a while just yeah he
was shaking up and
they told him you know stay here as long
as you need and i want you to get an
accident or anything so
just stay here and yeah
if he's not getting support i mean he
will personally need to get support
too because i mean he saw he saw what he
saw
i i could tell what he saw because from
one of the videos i could see but
at the same time he was passing what he
saw always okay
so yeah i could just imagine what what
went through his head and
out of all those other cars that passed
at the same time he was the only one
that turned her out and
came back he said you know because he
was
like he said look you can't imagine
and um and i both are like looking
and we can meet you somebody else want
to just say
i'm out of here man let's that you
turned and you heard you saw you smelled
you
you know anybody else would have and
people i couldn't do more
but don't just don't try to figure that
puzzle out because it's
man happened
that action that he did he did a lot but
i told him being a witness was
more than you can imagine you know
but yeah so i don't know if he told me
reach out i mean i said if you have to
like this
your first one on the spot
well he doesn't need any comments let me
know i sure will like i said uh thank
you for coming home
hopefully you didn't have to drive far
nothing then uh that's okay i mean
you know we have a say in the government
never too far in the government car
there you go especially you have spotify
or
podcasts yeah i know i i'll put on
something here
you can like i said carlos if you guys
know carlos
no or jose yeah i do i know carlos i
dealt with them uh um we had a case
up in hachita too okay you know he was
there forever
that michael said so if that takes
almost hey
i got an interview but afterwards she
doesn't