companies
hey man you can stay in your car you can
stay in the car man you can have a seat
what have a seat so I'm stopping you for
going 50 miles an hour to 25. what are
you talking about here yeah
you're okay I'm not messing with you why
are you grabbing me I want to talk to
somebody okay have a seat have a seat
have a seat now have a seat have a seat
okay okay sit down sit down sit down sit
down sit down sit down
he's trying to grab my gun he's trying
to grab my gun
get off my gun get off my gun get off my
gun get up
good afternoon this is Daniel here with
cops and cons TV and what you just saw
the body camera footage that was a case
recently from Richmond Virginia as you
saw this was a traffic stop as the
officer approached the driver the driver
got out there was a struggle at the door
and the individual the driver he went
after the police officer's gun and this
is controversial for a couple reasons
and this is what people are talking
about with this particular case is what
should the officer do in this particular
situation I want you to put in the chat
because I'm really curious to see what
people think and I'll be honest I can
make an argument either way so when in
that specific instance should the
officer should their main focus be
weapon retention meaning keeping at
least one hand on their gun and just
trying to retain the weapon to make sure
it doesn't come out or should the
officer try to create distance and maybe
get into an officer-involved shooting so
I'm curious what people think about that
so while you're typing it in I just want
to welcome everyone into the show I'm
Daniel here with cops and cons TV thank
you much for so much for joining us for
our live show today so what we're going
to be doing is going over you know a few
of the most important and interesting
cases that happen in policing this week
and a couple updates from some older
cases and obviously like most weeks
there is a lot going on so curiously
where everybody's from and again what
are your thoughts on that initial body
cam video that we just showed you uh
someone said hello Daniel great uh all
right nice to see you too uh yeah we
have police patches on the wall uh again
welcome welcome everybody in uh
criminals need to get some self-respect
and just comply all right so again my
name is Dion you can go ahead and follow
me over at policelaw News YouTube Tick
Tock just about everywhere but let's
talk about this body camera video that
we just showed so it's my thoughts on
this case are that you know if you're in
a situation that if you're a police
officer if when an individual goes for
your gun the idea of doing weapon
retention and that being the main thing
that you're focused on I think that
makes sense and that should be the goal
until the Gun starts to come out if the
offender if the bad guy is successful
and the second that gun starts to come
out of the holster that is a completely
different thing and that is when an
officer involved shooting is absolutely
appropriate so it's good that the
officer was able to get this individual
into custody without the individual
being shot or the officer being shot but
that's not going to be the case in every
single time that this happened so but
I'm okay with the weapon retention being
the main strategic thing instead of just
immediately trying to go for an officer
involved shooting because it's a deadly
threat so curious what people think
about that uh let's see Breezy Breezy
says yes just comply that makes sense we
have someone from Colorado that's my
favorite state so good to see people
from Colorado here let's see uh
definitely de-escalate and retain uh
butt [ __ ] around and find out uh that's
yeah that's that makes sense um yeah
definitely de-escalate and retain the
officer was trying to de-escalize so I
put this video up on my Tick Tock
Channel um I believe either yesterday or
earlier this morning and about half the
people were saying you know it's
interesting to see criticism from both
sides because about half of the
criticism people were saying well the
individual got out of the car so the
officer never should have approached in
the first place until he was back in the
car and that wasn't safe and then the
other half of the people are saying see
officers can resolve these situations
without getting into an officer involved
shooting and killing people well I think
the officer was lucky in this case that
he was able to
um resolve this situation peacefully
because that isn't going to happen a lot
of the time okay so I just want to show
you that body camera video because just
saw that in the last couple days and
thought that it was interesting and
there is a lot of uh controversy around
about what the police officer should
have done okay so the first case that
we're going to talk about is and this is
a terrible case so there's actually been
19 police officers who've been shot and
killed in the last 11 days I mean it's
just it's it's crazy how much this is
happening it's been a really violent
year for police officers so far this
year we're not going to talk about every
single one however the one that we are
going to talk about and discuss was
Adida fayaz he was an NYPD officer he
was I'm sure you heard about this case
but he was 26 years old um he only had a
couple years on the department he was a
father of two and he had a goal of being
a sergeant he wanted to run his own
units and here's how this
officer-involved shooting went down it
essentially happened off duty so what he
wanted to do was what a lot of people do
he wanted to buy a new vehicle so
someone posted a vehicle on Facebook
Marketplace it was a Honda Pilot listed
at twenty four thousand dollars so he
met the individual he actually took his
brother-in-law with him so he met the
individual who was selling the car at a
predetermined area and when we got to
when they got there this is what some of
the the information from the
brother-in-law that the individual his
name is Randy Jones is the individual
who ended up shooting this officer but
Randy Jones said jokingly to the two
individuals not knowing that that uh Mr
fayez was a NY PD officer he asked if
they were armed but he asked it in a way
that was kind of like joking and
friendly and they said and they answered
that they weren't it was at that point
that Randy Jones put um adid fayez and a
headlock he pulled out a gun he put the
gun to the officer's head and he
demanded money there was a struggle and
officer fayez he was able to escape upon
escaping that's when Randy Jones pulled
out a gun and he shot the off-duty
police officer in the head initially the
off-duty police officer Hadid fayez he
was in critical condition he was
transported to the hospital he was there
for a few days but he did sadly die this
past week
um Randy Jones the offender he was
caught he was hiding like a coward in in
in a hotel it turns out that the owner
of the vehicle ended up being Mr Jones's
mother though she isn't she isn't
implicated at all it seems like he did
this he did this on his own it should
not be surprising to anyone that Randy
Jones has a criminal history so at the
time this incident he did have a warrant
uh just for minor traffic offenses on
his record he also was wanted in out of
Virginia for a statutory rape case so
again it's been a really violent year
for police officers so far this year
this is one case that I want to talk
about and highlight because it was
especially sad let's see what some of
the comments are about this uh I
couldn't be a cop because I wouldn't be
the one who loses their cool just being
honest uh yeah I mean that that makes
sense a lot of people wouldn't be able
to do this job let's see uh but who in
their right mind goes for an officer's
gun uh Daryl Smith says who who in the
right mind goes for an officer's gun I
would question the guys of mental
capacity yeah so so would I so you know
you have to think about it this way or I
think you should think about it this way
is that when someone goes for a police
officer's gun that the response from the
police officer should be predictable
that the officer believes you're trying
to get that gun in order to shoot and
kill them so an officer would want to
obviously preserve their own life and
likely use deadly force so a lot of
times situations like this are suicide
by cop meaning that the fault of
whatever happens at the end shouldn't be
the police officer it should be
individual who started this incident by
going after the cops gun and a lot of
times we hear about officer involved
shooting and we talk about people are
unarmed well in the the majority of
these cases where people are supposedly
unarmed an officer involved shootings at
situations like this where they are
trying to become armed by taking the
police officer's gun uh Breezy Breezy uh
I give cops a lot of credit respect but
I'm not a fan okay all right uh let's
see
um have any other comments here let's
see drugs cause people to not use good
judgment that is a hundred percent
correct yeah it's unknown if this
individual was on was on drugs or not in
that particular case so the next case I
want to talk about is Anthony Lowe so we
covered this case last week
remember
um we covered this case again last week
if you remember Anthony he's the
individual he was the double amputee
essentially he had an amputation above
the knee that's called the trans femoral
amputation and you know the officers had
an officer about shooting with him he
was uh this was in Huntington California
and he was armed with a giant 12-inch
butcher knife so last week at the time
we had some video of this case if you
remember last week we had video
essentially it was from a cell phone
video or surveillance video but it
wasn't great and it showed what happened
right before the officer involved
shooting unfortunately when the shooting
occurred the way that the camera was
positioned there were a couple Vehicles
this happened near a busy street there
were a couple vehicles that pulled in
front and you weren't able to see the
exact officer involved shooting but the
police officers and the the chief of
police said that he has seen all the
different video of this case and that
you know right before the officer
involved shooting that Mr Lowe turned
towards police officers and threatened
them with the knife and I said at the
time well if that's the case this is
absolutely 100 a gel awful reasonable
Justified officer are involved shooting
so well what happened since in the last
couple days we do have all the video all
the video that is available has been put
out in the public and we don't just have
video of the officer involved shooting
which I'll get to in a second but we
also have a video a surveillance video
of what happened before so the reason
why police were called to this case in
the first place is because Anthony Lowe
was uh walking near well he was in his
wheelchair he hopped off his wheelchair
and he he's still he's a quick little
guy he ran over to a random individual
who he had no no prior beef with no
arguments he ran up to a random
individual from behind without warning
took that 12-inch butcher knife and
stabbed the guy in the armpits
um he punctured the guy's lung at first
the guy didn't interview the victim
didn't interview and at first he said he
thought that he was just punched that he
didn't realize what had happened and
then he saw the blood starting to rush
out so the victim had a punctured lung
he almost died luckily there were a
bunch of people there who were able to
put pressure on the room the wound and
call for Rescue and got rescue there
pretty quick and did save his life but
he almost died from this injury so it
was at that point that the police
officers were able to make contact with
him and what the video shows the
different surveillance video shows is
that the police officers were following
behind Anthony Lowe even though he was a
double amputee he was still able to move
pretty quick you know as I said last
week I know a lot of cops who couldn't
move as fast as Anthony Lowe was moving
and he was moving with a knife going
away from Cops the police officers were
giving him commands they were giving him
orders but because he was armed with a
large knife that he had just used it's
reasonable that they didn't try to go
Hands-On with him so they tried to use a
Taser they tried to use a Taser two
different times and the tasers didn't
work and as I said last week tasers fail
approximately 40 percent of the time so
it really isn't that surprising that you
know the tasers didn't work at that
point Anthony Lowe and the video clearly
shows this the Anthony load stopped from
running away from police officers so
running away from police officers is
different than acting than actively
attacking police officers so he stopped
from running away from police officers
he turned towards police officers and he
raised the knife as if he were going to
throw it it's at that point that police
officers utilize deadly force and
there's there's a lot of controversy
about this and there's protests but to
me this is lawful and this is completely
reasonable and the reason why this is a
lawful shooting and it actually didn't
become a lawful shooting until Anthony
Lowe faced towards police officers and
held the knife up like he was going to
throw it that is a deadly threat that
has to be perceived as a deadly threat
and we hear people say well why were the
police officers so close what do you
mean why were they so close he just
stabbed somebody so they weren't two
feet from him but they were within a
reasonable distance because you have to
be in order to utilize a taser you have
to be within 20 feet if you're going to
use utilize a taser which I think people
wanted the police officers to do but you
know if they had to be somewhat close
they can't let him get 100 200 feet
ahead because what if he stabs somebody
else he just I mean the idea that the
police officers are going to be a
completely perfect perfect and be able
to look at all of these things like
psychics with 2020 hindsight just isn't
reasonable so the police officers were
at a reasonable distance but again if
someone throws a 12 inch knife at you
there's a chance that knife could hit
you and kill you it's reasonable they
would use deadly force in order to uh
prevent that all right let's see if we
got some comments on this uh let's see
comments here uh James wigton
self-preservation killer be killed and
not complicated agree 100 uh Bulldogs
house uh you're telling me I have no
respect for the San Jose police
department by the way guys trying to get
an attorney okay I'm not sure what that
is uh anyone remember the episode of
cops lady had a butcher knife uh the cop
tackled her and she ended up stabbing
herself in the chest uh those days are
over yeah absolutely oh let's see
um officer blue gun uh best game of
where's the knife ever uh okay
um
yeah so it's I again I think it's a
reasonable officer involved shooting now
here's what some of the controversy is
and I this should be so some things that
I think should be self-evident should be
honest just a lot of people don't know
and you know on I was on Twitter
talking about this case and I was
actually tagged and tagged in this case
on Twitter a couple a couple different
times um over at police law news and
people were asking the same question
they said well you know it looks like he
was shot in the back that the police
officer shot him in the back and you
know how is it Justified how is it
possible that's Justified and they fired
11 rounds multiple police officers shot
him 11 rounds how is that possibly
Justified well here's why it's Justified
because reaction is always going to be
slower than action here's what I mean by
this so once Anthony Lowe raised up the
knife it's at that point in the police
officers Minds that they decided that
they were going to shoot him that they
perceived a deadly threat so the brain
perceives a deadly threat and that has
to go to the body for Action well that
doesn't happen instantly that could be a
quarter second or a half second before
that happened so you you see a threat
then then you make the decision that
you're going to use deadly force which
is reasonable when someone is
threatening to throw a knife at you but
by the time you actually get the gun out
and pull the trigger and fire yes could
it is it possible that in that half
second or three quarters of a second
that the individual goes from here to
kind of turning around but you've
already made the the decision in your
brain to shoot so you know you
physically can't stop yes that's how
Human Performance works that's that's
very reasonable about why this happens
now when it comes to the reactionary Gap
that all humans have like this is this
isn't this isn't you know controversial
stuff all psychologists and science
scientists know this that you know when
you're doing something it takes a second
for the brain to perceive what's
happening in order for a human being to
change direction so what I mean by that
so I'm not saying that police officers
should be able to shoot for well here's
what I wouldn't expect in a situation
like this I would not expect or think
it's Justified for police officers to
shoot an additional 10 seconds it
doesn't take the body that long to
realize the situation has changed but
could it be a second and a half could it
be a second and three quarters
absolutely I think that's about how long
it takes for the body to see something
for you to actually change what you're
doing a little over a second that's
possible so yes some of the bullets may
have Ended as he was turning around but
that doesn't mean that they shot him in
the back it's incredibly dishonest to
say that they shot him in the back now
if Anthony Lowe was running away before
he turned around and the police officer
shot him at that point yes we can all
sit here and say he was running away and
the cop shot him in the back but that
clearly isn't what happened here he
turned around he held the knife up like
he was going to throw it police officers
fired and yes it could take the body a
second second and a quarter second and a
half to actually stop shooting once he's
once he's down but that's a completely
reasonable thing and most people
understand that right please know that
cops aren't robots that can just stop um
in less than half a second no matter
what you're doing all right let's see if
we got any questions uh
um he's got copies of the footage okay
great
um the incident happened uh talking
about I think you guys are talking about
different case uh
um let's see okay no other comments on
this case but um yeah so I think this is
important um so also on this Twitter
feed I got uh someone um tagged me and
also Peter moskows um asking these
questions and Peter and I kind of went
back and forth a little bit with some of
these individuals asking these questions
Peter moscows is a professor over uh
professor of criminology over at John
Jay University uh in New York and he
wrote a really great book called
um uh uh cop in the hood so um it was
interesting to be on a be on a Twitter
thread with him he's uh he's pretty well
known in this in this space
um next case that I want to talk about
so this so when I first saw this case I
thought it happened in Wyoming which you
don't really hear about too many police
incidents that happen in Wyoming so it
was a little strange but it was actually
Wyoming Ohio so Wyoming Ohio uh that
happens to be a suburb of since
Cincinnati but I think when I first
posted about this case on one of my
pages I put that it happened in Wyoming
didn't realize that there's a little
city called Wyoming in Ohio uh of
Cincinnati so with this I want to talk
about
um this is an incident that happened and
you know what happened it was a police
an officer involved shooting and this
occurred
um and this occurred on um on January
30th of 23. so what's interesting and
why this case is really just a Playbook
of how dishonest people come on the
scene when it comes to officer-involved
shootings in order to try to put a
narrative out there so I'm going to put
a tweet up we just did of Ben Crump so
everyone knows Ben Crump is is famous
for coming onto these scenes and um you
know really giving a lot of times
information to the media that isn't true
before objective evidence can come out
so what happened in this case is that
there was an officer involved shooting
pretty much almost immediately even
before the police officer and
investigators were were able to clear
the scene Ben Crump put up this tweet
and this tweet you can read it right
there on the screen it is absolutely
crazy basically the Tweet has all of the
everything that happened in this case in
the light most favorable to the
individual Joe Frazier who was shot by
police and literally none of the
realistic true information or relevant
information so you know essentially Ben
Crump said that there was an individual
who was shot by police he was just
trying to clean out his grand grand
mother's apartment he wasn't committing
a crime well Ben Crump you know
conveniently left out a couple things so
let's talk about a couple of things that
Ben Crump left out of his tweet first
this happened in the middle of the night
so this happened at 12 30 at night and
the police officers just didn't roll up
there because they were bored and they
had nothing to do police officers there
was a call to 9-1-1 from a neighbor that
there was a break-in in progress so
there was a burglary in progress so
police officers responded as they're
supposed to do imagine if someone calls
at 12 30 in the morning and says there's
a burglary in progress and police don't
come of course the police have to go go
so police officers get there and they
it's 12 30 at night and they do see two
or three people who are rummaging
through this apartment so obviously the
police officers they have to figure out
what's going on yes they basically have
to stop the individuals from what
they're doing and you know detain them
to see what's going on because they do
have reasonable suspicion at that time
that a crime has been committed so one
of the individual stops and complies the
under other individual Joe Frazier he
doesn't comply he decides that yeah he's
not going to follow the law he's not
going to comply with police officers
what he does is he jumps in his truck
and he starts driving towards the police
officers as he's driving towards the
police officers there's an officer
involved shooting as the car is coming
towards a police officer so essentially
if you watch the video he's driving
towards the police one officer and
that's when the officer involved
shooting occurs um the reason he did
this is that Mr Frazier had an
outstanding warrant um and he was
fleeing police to avoid arrest now the
information that I just gave does this
additional information make this officer
involve shooting automatically lawful
well not necessarily of course not I
mean we def anyone who's on its own
objective is going to need far more
information about this case before they
render any kind of an opinion however
leaving out this information it's
intentional it's dishonest and it's it's
done with purpose in order to try to
muddy the waters on this case and you
know because there was a shooting from a
police vehicle and I'm curious what you
guys think about this so that definitely
puts your definitely put your comments
in the chat so when it comes to police
officers who shoot at moving Vehicles
I've got some strong feelings on this
and I'm not alone in having strong
feelings about this is because most
police departments actually have
policies that that dictate and that
instruct officers when they can and when
they can't shoot at Motor Vehicles so I
typically
put these cases where cops shooted cars
in a couple different categories the
first category is officer-induced
jeopardy and the second category is
unavoidable so let's talk about
officer-induced Jeopardy what that would
mean is let's say there's a car that's
fleeing the car is fleeing it's on a
roadway and it's trying to leave a scene
a police officer then jumps out in front
of the car and then as the car is
barreling towards him or her he starts
shooting at the driver and then says
well the car was coming at me yeah okay
fine but you were in a position of
safety you left that safety to jump in
front of a moving car what did you think
was gonna happen so no that likely
wouldn't be a Justified officer-involved
shooting so that's one category the
other other category is unavoidable
where you're not purposely putting
yourself in the path where a police
officer is standing in a place that's
reasonable to stand and then through no
fault of their own a vehicle starts
coming towards them well in a situation
like that even most police departments
who don't like this kind of stuff which
you know typically there's policies they
even say that if it's unavoidable a
situation like that that yes it is
reasonable and proper for a police
officer to utilize deadly force against
the driver so the question is what was
this case which category does it fall in
so well my opinion after watching the
body camera video and then looking at a
lot of a lot of the information about
this case it seems like that it goes
into that second category the
unavoidable category and here's why so
here's what happens in the body camera
video so Mr Frazier after multiple you
know commands from police officers to
stop to don't do that to get on the
ground to knock it in your car all of
the commands you think police officers
should issue they did and they were just
disregarded by Mr Frazier so he got into
the car and the car was stopped right it
was it was stopped and from a dead stop
he started towards one of the officers
well that officer because you know when
a car just starts moving it isn't that
fast so that officer actually was able
to move out of the way and it came close
to hitting him but the officer was able
to move out of the way and there was no
officer involved shooting at that point
because the officer was able to get out
of the way because the car wasn't moving
very fast then there's a driveway right
so the the officer or the vehicle
doesn't go down the driveway the vehicle
actually drives over the lawn drives
over grass where there's another police
officer that's just standing there also
yelling commands this whole time so that
police officer who isn't in a roadway
he's standing on the grass again not a
place that you would expect a vehicle to
drive it's not like this officer jumped
out in front of in front of the car he
was already standing there it's at that
point the vehicle drives across the lawn
towards the police officer that he fires
and shoots and injures uh severely
injures the driver so to me that seems
like it's a reasonable and Justified and
lawful officer involved shooting because
again if Mr Frazier had was driving down
a driveway a designated place to anyone
would expect a car to go not complying
and an officer jumps into that driveway
and puts themselves in danger like I get
that argument okay I don't want police
officers to do that either but if a
police officer is standing on grass a
reasonable place to stand where you are
not where no person should expect a car
to drive over over a lawn and that that
car is coming towards them yeah that to
me that seems like a reasonable lawful
Justified officer-involved shooting and
what I have to say about this is that um
they actually did this really quick so
this happened on January 30th by
February 4th the the district attorney
um in the in the area her last name is
uh the prosecutor's last name is Powers
she um did a statement she basically
said that there are no charges that are
going to be filed against the police
officers that um that this was a clear
case of self-defense and they're not
going to file charge against the police
officers I think it's good when it's
obvious now let's say you don't know
like in the Alec Baldwin case where you
have to send stuff to the FBI and then
the D.A you know you really you have to
look at the law really carefully to see
if there's Charges going to be filed I'm
good with District Attorneys taking
their time and being careful I'm never
going to fall to district attorney for
you know really looking over evidence
and being thoughtful but in a case like
this where the district attorney has the
information she hasn't she knows what
the officer said she knows the statement
she has the body camera video and she
could look at it and render render a
decision that that it's reasonable
there's no reason to wait so she was
able to make that decision within five
days which I think is not only good for
the police officers but it's also good
for the community for everyone to kind
of move on to know hey we've looked at
this case this is a lawful reasonable
Justified officer involved shooting all
right so let's see uh let's see a day
Sean crew thanks for the live input
about police group type brutality well
yeah so sometimes we talk about uh well
DeSean if that's uh if that's your
opinion you're gonna like the next story
we do because you know I talk about
stories here and I'm objective if I
think that an officer involves shooting
is lawful I'll say so if I think it's
not lawful I will say so as well which
is going to be the next case so you may
want to stick around for that big guy uh
let's see officer blue gun remember when
people follow the lawful commands of
police those were the good times yeah
you know what I always say about officer
blue gun to excellent common what I
always say about that is if you follow
the commands of the police officers you
don't run you don't fight there is
virtually a zero percent chance that
you're going to be hurt are killed by
police officers now there's not no
chance because the Memphis five crazy
cops they're always going to be out
there right but you know if we look at
it statistically in the Thousand or so
officer involved shootings that end up
in death every single year how many of
those cases was someone just sitting
there minding their own business going
about their day taking their kids to the
store and the police officers show up
and just shoot him in the head for no
reason how often does that happen
statistically what do you think that is
um you know one out of maybe a hundred
thousand I mean it almost never happens
so yes officer blue gun that's correct
if statistically and if we're going to
trust the science it's weird to say
trust the science about other things but
not about this if you follow the
commands of police officers don't run
don't fight the chances uh that you are
going to get hurt or injured by police
are are way less than one tenth of one
percent all right so let's see um
okay so DeSean is uh let's see they can
continue to Pursuit whenever possible
um yeah you're not making any sense okay
let's see um out of curiosity is there a
large enough space say 40 50 yards is it
still lawful if the police officer could
hypothetically move out of the way
Garrett Mason that's a really good
question yeah that's why these cases are
so fact specific like you have to look
at the facts of the individual cases so
yeah so you know what in this one
um and and like I said the first officer
because the car was moving slowly he was
able to move out of the way pretty
quickly
um so he didn't fire his gun you know
because he didn't need to because he was
able to get out of the way the second
one where again you're standing in the
grass not expecting cars to come towards
you a car starts barreling towards you
at kind of a high rate of speed there
really isn't anywhere for you to go um
so in a case like that I think it's
reasonable but yeah I think what people
how police departments Internal Affairs
and also investigators from the DA's
office and prosecutors what they look at
is they say okay was this was the
officer was is there an immediate deadly
threat if the answer is yes then the
officer involved shooting is lawful if
the answer is no let the officer put
themselves in front of a moving car like
well it really wasn't an immediate
threat until you did something against
policy that was on purpose so um that's
why these cases are so facts specific
but yes if it's reasonable that a police
officer can move out of the way safely
then more times than not they're going
to say that is not that is not a lawful
officer involved shooting but again it
just depends so um you know in this case
I think the police officers showed great
restraint meaning that there were two
other and there was an officer in the
middle who I didn't talk about who was
also almost struck by the vehicle and he
didn't fire either because he was able
to move out of the way so um you know
it's one of those things where
um it's you know they really no officer
shot until there wasn't there wasn't an
option to otherwise the police officers
just went a shot as soon as he started
the car which absolutely is not what
happened in this case all right let's
see um
uh Ray Baker Cherokee North Carolina any
comments on the completely unjustified
shooting uh I'll just have to look into
that one Ray I'm sorry uh let's see uh
Vigilant voice it doesn't matter at
times can police can be 100 justified in
the shooting and you're still going to
have the folks saying it isn't Justified
Vigilant voice thank you so much for
saying that and that's why I wanted to
talk about this case because because if
this is why this is this is the Playbook
that they use they essentially um this
because again it's the factors that Ben
Crump didn't say so just his tweet about
this case that could have started so
many riots and protests and before the
and you know the city can't always put
the body camera footage out there
immediately so they're able to get out
in front of these things there's a
reason why hands up don't shoot in the
Michael Brown case was proved to not
have happened there was no hands up
don't shoot not only did every
investigator every agency who looked at
the case say that that never happened
but Barack Obama's doj who isn't very
police friendly they also said that
hands up don't shoot and Michael Brown
case never happened so but how is it
that six years later in 2020 during the
NBA season NBA players were wearing
hands up don't shoot on the back of
their Jersey so so these lies that are
put there in the media they're they're
it's really difficult once you start
something and Ben Crump knows this once
you get some information out there it's
really difficult even if there's
objective evidence because people people
who are anti-police Maniacs they don't
want to be honest about this they want
they're clinging to any reason to say
that the police did something wrong
another example is the Brianna Taylor
case so so even so even though we know
what happened even Joe Biden's doj said
that shooting was 100 reasonable and
lawful there were no charges against the
officers who shot
um but there are still people who say
that they burst in the door without
warning and they shot Brianna Taylor
while she was sleeping in her bed even
though every investigator including the
DIA Biden's doj said that didn't happen
and it was a lawful shooting that the
officers fight tired once they were once
they were shot at last one is the Kyle
Rittenhouse case so Kyle Rittenhouse
there are still a lot of people who
think that Kyle Rittenhouse shot three
people for no reason because he's a
white supremacist I'm not crazy about
Kyle Rittenhouse or anyone being at a
protest or a riot but the only three
people Kyle Rittenhouse shot were white
people who were awful who were who were
attacking him but you know it's you get
the narrative out there that he's a
white supremacist and that he was out
hunting people and it's it's pretty it's
it's really difficult to undo those
narratives so that's why I want to talk
about this case because so quickly Ben
Crump went out there in a tweet and just
put so much uh danger into the community
by saying something that isn't true and
the thing is maybe he didn't have all
the information so that's my thing if
you don't have the information you can
ask that as questions well did the
police officers do this but why make
specific statements and then how about
this when we have objective evidence
when we have the body camera footage we
have a D.A who says that it's a lawful
Justified reasonable officer involved
shooting do you think Ben Crump goes
back back and retracts that tweet do you
think he corrects his statement at all
no that tweet that's why we were able to
pull it up today it lives there on its
own without any correction because being
honest just isn't what's valuable to
people who are like this um let's see um
officer blue gun uh that's uh that's
what happens when you make arguments
from an emotional perspective rather
than calm and logical it absolutely is
uh Ray Baker I know you're mad at me
right I'm sorry I I apologize um I need
to get to that case and um I forgot I'm
gonna be honest about it okay I'm not
like Ben Crump I forgot to look into the
case
um but I will Cherokee North Carolina I
I will uh let's see uh the human dancer
those incidents don't tend to get
traction that is uh absolutely correct
uh let's see Garrett Mason it's a bummer
that we entered the age of information
uh 30 some odd years ago it feels like
we're struggling in the age of
disinformation uh yeah I think we just
asked you if you have a date of when it
happened but I promised Ray Baker that I
will I will absolutely get to that case
um all right so and you know I I
this is the worst case and we talked
we've talked about it before I think we
really went into it last week so I'm
knocking into all the facts but the
Tyree Nichols case so you know really
the longer this case goes on and the
further we are away from it the worse it
looks
um there's been more firings of police
officers who were I think six more
officers were fired not criminally
charged but I think that they were there
on scene and you know didn't render Aid
or other different department of uh
policy violations also the one police
officer uh his last name is Hemphill big
guy
um he was he was fired um so the
Department's saying that he lied that's
one of the things he did and I've got a
couple questions about that so officer
Hemphill so he was there during the
initial traffic stop and he was the one
who tried to utilize the taser as Tyree
Nichols was running away so the police
department the reason that they said
they fired him is mainly because he lied
now let me just be very clear about this
if he lied to investigators to Internal
Affairs he should be fired no question
and the thing is all police officers
actually every police officer you talk
to will say the same thing that if an
officer lies they should be fired no
question about it we have unlike
attorneys we have zero tolerance for
that but here's my question I would
really be interested in seeing some of
the internal documents on what officer
Hemphill said because did he actually
lie or did he just give his perspective
that maybe wasn't correct but that was
his perspective so a couple of things
that officer Hemphill said he said that
um at the reason for the traffic stop
was reckless driving well officer
Hemphill he's not the one who stopped
him so he didn't observe the driving so
did he say I saw Tyler Nichols or Tyree
Nichols driving in a reckless manner or
did he say yeah the other officers told
me that it was reckless driving but you
know I I wasn't there I have no way to
verify it so it's difficult to see that
that was a lie if that's what the other
officers told him at least that was his
perspective at the time is that yes this
is a stop for reckless driving also he
said that um that uh Tyree Nichols was
uh trying to reach for one of the
officers guns now it doesn't look like
that happened but one of the officers
said that so one of the Memphis five of
the officers who were involved in the
beating one of those officers said
during that initial interaction he's
going for my gun he's going for my gun
so any officer who's there on scene you
know it's maybe you don't imagine a
situation where there's a lot of
officers around and you may not have
like a picture-perfect movie quality
view of exactly what's happening
especially if you're kind of on the
outside edge like this officer was so
yes could it be your perspective or your
your opinion that he probably was
grabbing at the officer's gun because
there was a struggle and that's what one
of the officers yelled well sure does
that mean he's lying no I don't think
that means he's lying um but you know
they fired him for untruthfulness
amongst other things so again I'm really
curious to see if he actually lied or if
he just gave his perspective based on
bad information which you know depending
on where you are in any situation humans
are going to have a different
perspective on what happens but again
for about the fourth time if officer
Hemphill lied about any part of this he
absolutely 100 should be terminated no
question about that uh let's see uh yes
uh officer blue Cam talking about the
raw footage yes
um let's see Daryl Smith uh Columbus
Body camera uploaded a video five hours
ago officer involved shooting you should
watch it I think I will Daryl Smith I
will watch it um let's see dude answers
the door for a SWAT making call outs uh
yes I'll have to watch that one for sure
uh let's see Steve Ladner or me and
Steve talk on comments all the time good
afternoon Steve I have no trust and
respect for police uh but Derek Chauvin
should not go to jail yes so me and
Steve we we go back and forth uh we go
back and forth pretty often and I'm
always interested to see what he says
because
um you know he's so ID he just said he
doesn't have respect for police and
that's and that's fine so he doesn't
really like police and it questions a
lot of officer-involved shootings but he
doesn't think Derek Chauvin should go to
jail so it's just kind of weird because
you know I do have respect for police
and I do trust police most of the time
but I think Derek Chauvin should be in
jail he's exactly where he belongs so
it's funny that someone who's you know
more anti-police is supporting Derek
Chauvin and someone I'm pro-police but
I'm Pro being honest about police and I
think Derek Chauvin is absolutely 100
where he needs to be
um and the one of the reasons why I
brought up Tyree Nichols again is
because you know people who are
pro-police when I say that that Pro
police to me just means that you believe
in the institution of policing you
believe that police 100 percent are that
Thin Blue Line that separates order from
chaos and that there would be more death
destruction Carnage if there were no
police so if you believe that and I
think most people do because we know
what happens when they're on police so
again trust the science all the studies
are out there so if you believe that
then you have to be honest about stuff
and what I always say is if you are pro
police and have this belief that police
actually make things safer and you know
save people's lives that people in that
camp which I'm in we only have the moral
High Ground when we're honest and
objective about these cases meaning we
can't say what happened to Tyree Nichols
case or the George Floyd case that that
was lawful reasonable you know we can't
make arguments like that because they're
not true and it really just devalues the
arguments we make for officers who were
involved in lawful shootings like a
Garrett Rolf in Atlanta or officer
Christopher Sher in Grand Rapids
Michigan so we can't both if we're not
honest about the cases where it's
obviously an unlawful officer involved
shooting it really takes away from the
important cases where police officers do
follow their training and the law and
they're being railroaded and being
prosecuted like Ben Darby and officer
sure for absolutely no legitimate reason
so I just wanted to put that out there
uh uh officer blue gun I hope that
Hemphill wasn't fired to appease the mob
him saying I hope they stomp his ass
didn't help though yeah so let's put
that out there officer blue gun thank
you so much so yeah so one of the things
that officer Hemphill said he's the big
white guy who was fired in Memphis case
one of the things that he said was on
his body camera he said I hope they
stomp his ass now does that make him
look good no does that put him in a good
light no of course not but I think we
have to be reasonable about this here's
what I mean by that there is a
difference and if you don't acknowledge
this difference then I don't think
you're being honest there is a
difference between language directed
towards a citizen language of Citizen
hears and then something that a police
officer says in their own car to
themselves where nobody else hears like
there's a difference I'm not saying it's
okay I'm not saying we want police
officers to say rude things to
themselves but there's a difference if
he would have said to Tyree Nichols
we're gonna stomp your ass or if he told
one of the other officers go and stomp
his ass I get it I'm with you I'll
follow you down that path but he says it
to himself muttering underneath his
breath so only he hears it it's kind of
like thinking out loud and you're going
to discipline an officer for that like
I'm not good with that we're going down
a road of thought crime um and I'm not
I'm not okay with that um like I said he
wasn't involved now now if he said that
and then later on he was involved in the
beating or told the officers well yes of
course that's different but if it's a
rude comment that you say to yourself
that nobody else can hear it's not good
but it's 100 different than saying it
directed at a citizen or even where a
citizen can hear that's my opinion on
that I'm curious to see what other
people think uh let's see
um okay so Daryl Smith said 100 I hope
that means that you agree with me all
right um and I did just mention the
officer showcase so um officer blue gun
uh he said it in front of one of the
Memphis five who then drove over there
and participated okay yeah so one of the
officers heard him say it um yeah so I
think that gets us from you're saying
it's to the public the public can hear
another officer here's
um so yeah so it's um yeah again it
doesn't put him in a good light
um and especially in this hyper
political area uh Arena officer blue gun
yeah it doesn't help okay I'm not saying
it helps I'm saying it's a bad look
um but I'm saying that if we're talking
if we're talking about firing someone
for something they say to me that has to
be pretty extreme and I get it he wasn't
fired just for that it was just one
brick in this wall of things that he did
wrong
um but and it is wrong he shouldn't say
it I'm not I'm not defending that but
again like if citizen doesn't hears it
hear it I really think it's pretty minor
in nature now if we're going to argue
that the only reason that these uh five
crazy cops be Tyree Nichols to death is
because officer Hemphill um told him to
do it uh I I don't know if I would agree
with that um but you know maybe that
would be that their defense that they're
uh they are deferring to Hemphill so
yeah okay all right um and I did just
mention officer sure so again I talk
about this case I like to give updates
and I promise this is probably the last
one for a while since officer
Christopher showcase and the Patrick
Loyola officer involved shooting in
Grand Rapids Michigan that happened in
April I think it's the most important
case that is currently going on right
now because I do not think that charges
are appropriate and officer sure is
facing is facing
um a second-degree murder charges so a
little bit of an update on this um so
what's strange that just came out this
week that the city the grand city of
Grand Rapids is actually backing officer
sure so there was a lawsuit filed
against the city and in the response
that lawsuit the city of Grand Rapids
Michigan said that this the this officer
involved shooting was objectively
reasonable so the city is backing
officer sure and again politically you
know that's not where the advantage is
for cities the the advantage for cities
is to fire all the officers try to get
them prosecuted and basically throw
themselves on the sword so that's what
cities typically do when there's a a bad
officer involved shooting I mean find me
find me an example of where an officer
had a loft had an unjustified shooting
and they're being defended by the city
it doesn't happen it often goes the
other way where the shooting's Justified
but politically is more convenient for
the city to throw the officer onto the
bus so that's what happens but in this
case the city is actually defending
officer sure which I'll be honest I was
surprised with but yeah they said the
officer involved shooting was
objectively reasonable and I wrote an
article about this case I'm over on my
sub stack police law newsletter it got
about 3 500 views which is my most
viewed article which is really cool
um but it's almost like the city of
Grand Rapids read my article and used
all of my arguments in their in their
response uh to this lawsuit because they
basically said that the officer involved
shooting is objectively reasonable they
talk about how it was Progressive Force
how you know officer sure didn't just
come out there shooting in the first
place that he tried verbal he went
Hands-On he went taser and it wasn't
until Patrick Loyola grabbed the taser
and wrestled it from officer sure that's
when there was a deadly threat that was
perceived and deadly force was utilized
so I think that was interesting also the
case was just continued it was supposed
to go to trial in March um it was just
continued Apparently one of the defense
attorneys some of their staff someone
passed away there was a death so the
judge did continue the case and also the
defense officers defense says they have
to go through about 30 000 documents
which is you know about right for a case
like this so um it was actually
continued until uh October 24th so a
little bit of a stay there um we won't
hear too much about this case until then
but um yeah so bet in October 24th is
when the case is scheduled to go to
trial so um it was pushed back about six
months from its initial date all right
let's see if we haven't any comments on
that um
humanoid it shows a my okay yeah this is
a good comment uh humanoid dancer it
shows a mindset within that unit officer
speaking to themselves yeah yeah
absolutely
um it does it shows a mindset and and
I'm gonna say it it puts him in a bad
light so I'm admitting it looks bad I'm
admitting it looks bad
um but the idea that you know you could
you should get fired or severe
discipline for something you say to
yourself
um I mean I'm not I'm not crazy about
that I'm just not crazy about that I'll
get back with that in a second uh
officer blue guy Grand Rapids should pay
you uh a consulting fee yeah you know I
I charge about a thousand dollars an
hour so um we can provide the address
for uh Grand Rapids to to send that to
um yeah yeah so um well I I um I
actually did a I actually did a couple
podcasts um it should be I know I keep
saying it they haven't come out yet I
think they'll come out this week uh I
did the law enforcement today radio show
and then um I did Travis Yates
courageous leadership
um if you follow those channels podcasts
both of those should should be out in
the next week or so and I do talk about
the Christopher Showcase in both of
those incidents um yeah so back to the
humanoid dancer and it shows the mindset
of the police officers in that unit it
does and I agree and it's not a good
mindset so um when I talk about the
Memphis case I talked about it last week
is that this is a systematic problem
that this isn't just a couple bad
officers no this is a systematic problem
and I went in great detail last week
about why the system is broken how it's
breaking down I gave some examples of
why the office there's a reason why the
officers felt like they were okay with
either doing this on on their own body
camera filming themselves either they
didn't know it was wrong or they knew it
was wrong and they just didn't think
anyone would catch them because no one's
watching body camera videos from use of
force cases so would that's a systematic
problem either way um so the human eye
dancer so I don't know if anybody
listens to failure to stop it's a pretty
interesting uh law enforcement police
podcast one of the hosts his name is
Eric tansy and tansy was a police
officer with Raleigh Police one of the
reasons he opened a Distillery that was
one of the reasons out of the county but
one of the reasons that tansy was fired
is because they started to audit his
body camera videos just randomly again I
say that jokingly none of this is random
they were targeting officer tansy right
so as they were targeting tansy they
found body camera footage where he was
on a call for service and he was
completely nice and reasonable with
everyone on scene there was no arrest
there was no complaint he gets into his
car and like a lot of officers he
forgets to turn off his body camera and
in between calls he calls his wife while
he's on the phone with his wife he makes
the comment I hate people and then he
went about his day no complaints no use
of force no issues well when they went
back you know months later they ended up
that being one of the reasons uh that'd
be one of the reasons that they fired
him is because he said I hate people
um during a phone call with his wife
while he was just trying to vent so
again like if you say if you say I hate
people and then you go out and you use
unlawful Force yeah that's extremely
problematic but I think we should
discipline the force um if so anyways
it's just one of those things all right
so I just want to talk about um it's uh
here in New Mexico we had a County
Deputy who was on body camera talking to
his side piece about sexual things so
yeah police officers say things on body
camera video that they shouldn't uh
let's see uh Canadian rights
transparency welcome uh police the
police always film the police yeah I
think that's I think that's uh
reasonable to do you should film police
that's completely fine that's and it's
uh completely legal so um Steve Ladner
I've had cops tell me a grand jury holds
them accountable do you think a grand
jury verdict means anything really good
question Steve thank you so much for
asking it
um no I uh I I don't I don't I don't
think a grand jury is a whole lot I
think it's very easy to indict anyone I
think police officers are indicted on
cases from a grand jury when they
shouldn't be
um you know also I think it has to do
with so the read so really quick so what
grand jury is basically the prosecutor
putting all of their evidence out there
in the light most favorable to them
without a defense so no one's able to
defend themselves
um there's no there's no real
questioning of the evidence it's hey in
the best light to us now they can't lie
right but they can say this is this is
the evidence as we believe it you know
is there enough probable cause to go
ahead to trial so that's why because
there's no opposition it's very easy to
get cases indicted
um so I don't have a lot of faith in the
grand jury system
um so a lot so yeah again it's something
it's not nothing
um but you know it's very easy to indict
I think it's more rare that a case goes
to a grand jury and if a grand jury says
no we're not gonna We're Not Gonna
indict I think that speaks more volumes
because the prosecutor is trying to get
charges prosecuted that's why they're
taking the case to a grand jury so so I
think that there's that there's I think
it says more when a case goes to Grand
Jury and then there's no indictment
there's there there is a there isn't a
true bill um I think that speaks more
than you know kind of just rubber
stamping cases to go through that's my
opinion on that Steve and um you know
Stephen when it comes to this I don't
think it's just the grand jury so that
holds cops accountable it's also
Internal Affairs it's the task force
that does the uh that investigates the
officer involved shooting which is never
which is never the same agency the
officer works for it's an outside agency
it's the feds it's the DA's office so
you know when you have internal affairs
looking at the policies when you have a
different agency looking at the officer
involved shooting when you have
sometimes the federal government looking
at it and then you have the DA's office
or a prosecutor looking at the case you
really have four different sets of eyes
on it so yeah so I do think police
officers are held accountable is grand
jury the best way to do it no probably
not but again there are checks and
balances which and this is beside the
trial there's also a trial if you think
that there's something against the
officer that they did something illegal
you can you can go ahead to trial so
um uh ghost of uh uh ghost of a gangsta
you can indict a ham sandwich exactly
what I was saying 100 that's that is
that is my uh opinion on that as well
and yeah officer blue guns better be
judged by 12 and carried by six yeah
that's a hundred percent correct
um yeah and when it come comes to body
cameras you know we need doctors nurses
senior home employees they should have
body cameras
um uh yeah it's um Pilots I'm for body
cameras for for all these people
um I think when we talked about the
redonda Vaught case the nurse at
Vanderbilt you know that you know we
should really have uh nurses wearing
body cams and we talked about doing a
show called a a nurse watch or something
like that anyways
um so that last case that I want to talk
about and you know it just wouldn't be a
week here on Cops and con TV if we
didn't talk about the LaVerne police
case so this case isn't going to die
because we're just not gonna [ __ ] Let
It Die okay so this week the chief of
police of La Verne Tennessee
um Burrell Burrell chip Davis he was
fired so they fired uh the fire the the
the the chief of police and um yeah it's
just real important for us to ride this
story out until it's finished
um the allegation against the chief of
police is that um he knew about the
sexcapades that were going on between
the officers and that he just didn't do
anything about it also the other
allegation is that he himself had
received racy photographs in reference
to this whole investigation with Megan
Hall that he didn't report that or
didn't disclose that in his interview
two investigators and two human
resources and you know I just want to
say we are not pulling out of this
investigation and allegations until
they're completely finished so the chief
of police was fired there's someone
who's a deputy chief of police who is
now going to be the interim Chief over
there at Laverne PD so
um yeah I think that's uh I think that's
pretty much our pretty much our favorite
case uh officer blue gun I heard she was
offered 10K to do shows at a strip club
uh who's going if she accepts uh not me
from the photos I've seen
um all right uh let's see uh cannibal
bacon uh body cameras are great they
almost make half my cases without
testimony
um yeah so candle bacon I don't know if
you're on the side of Defending police
officers or uh you are a defense
attorney either way I think that body
cameras are great I've said this 100
times the one and again we've covered
the case earlier today and I can't
remember if I said this or not so I'm
going to say it now in the Anthony low
case the the double double amputee
there's an option of shooting the police
officers there in Huntington California
they don't have body cameras so not
through any fault of the police officers
but the city hasn't outfitted them with
body cameras in my opinion I love Body
Canvas and not just because we have a
body camera channel here but I honestly
think it's important for transparency if
the government needs to be transparent
and I honestly think that body cameras
they they are they protect police more
than they hurt police and it's crazy to
me that cities aren't outfitting cops
with body cameras when you don't buy
body cameras when you don't give them to
police and you don't set a policy saying
that the police have to use them that's
really a disservice not to just those
officers but to the public so I'm 100
advocate of body cameras all of the
research and everything that I've seen
uh Mr cannibal bacon everything I've
seen is at approximately 80 percent of
police officers need United States have
body cameras I think that should be a
hundred percent of police officers
should have them we talked about it
before that they're expensive not the
cameras themselves but the data storage
is what's expensive but I think it's an
investment that cities and
municipalities should make
um so that's going to be the show today
don't have any other cases to talk about
um again I really want to thank
um I really want to thank everyone for
being here in here today and uh the
great questions
um it's really important so you know
we'll be back next week you know around
noon or so uh mountain time around
lunchtime we'll do another show um while
the week goes on if you think of other
cases or anything that we missed or any
other opinions definitely put those in
the definitely put those in the chat if
the chat is something uh the chat is
something that I uh kind of keep up with
all weekend I like to go back and forth
in and respond to people um and again
the Super Bowls this week uh this Sunday
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