we've got case of a law student and off-duty lawyer just keep recording Sean don't let him intimidate you Chief Donovan knows you Chief Donovan knows who I am are you googling the laws right now cuz that's really what she should be doing right now there's two guys right here with Glocks and scared of a scared of a 19-year-old the phone bro well I'm not scared of a 19-year-old with the phone I have come on man don't do that one chilly evening at a University campus officer pertle was dispatched to investigate a report of underage drinking in one of the dormitories as the officer approached the room he met the student at the door oh sorry I can help you is there anyone else in here uh no it's just me okay you mind just opening the door that way I can see uh you trying to what you trying to look for I just want to make sure there's no one else in there to start and then I'll talk to you no there's no one in there right now okay come out here and talk to me then yeah so I'm going to be honest with you so we got to report that um you were seen walking into your dorm with alcohol is there alcohol in there I don't answer questions what's your name and your badge number officer fle NMSU police title your name rather security officer oh security officer okay okay do you have an ID with you uh I do okay can I see it uh you suspect me of a crime I do okay what crime and how can you articulate it minor imposition of alcohol we got a report that you were walked in so it's like here that they say they said thing okay it's a yeah right it's like they said that he has and that that's how you going articulated it so we don't have to go down this route if you want to if you want to go down this route we can well I really don't but like you're I'm studying right now I'm doing homework get knocked on my door I'm out here I want to know what's on you say that they they said that there's alcohol in this room oh that they saw me going into this room and that there's alcohol in there how can you articulate it though okay so that's why I'm here talking to you yeah okay so I still need and I ID you uh no and then we need to go from there you have to you have to suspect me of a crime I I do you you you realize that uh cops in New Mexico don't have qualified immunity right I do that I do okay so from from here and on just let's just be careful in what you about to do right now you're saying that you want my ID but right now you're not you or yourself can articulate a crime I've have committed okay so so I already explained to you why I I'm here why I I know what you're here but okay is my D going to tell you if there's alcohol in that room no but I still need to identify you my name is Joel Joel what Joel I need your first last name and your date of birth no you don't I do if you don't want to provide that you don't want to call officer Donovan or one of your supervisors here yeah I can get a sergeant over then calling on because right now this is not what you want to do right now cuz this is a violation of my fourth amendment okay all right let me let me get a sergeant over here okay yeah 202 212 s oh I'm yeah that's my room okay you want to just hang out out here then is he detained no it's fine I just don't want anyone going in the room you could go in then if you're if he's not detained he's free to go yeah he's free to go but he can't go in the room he can't no not at this time all right just just let it be bro just they someone called and said that they saw us or me walk in there with the case of beer but that's all they have so so it's an instigation I'm talking to him he doesn't want to identify himself so until we get this figured out there's a sergeant on the way that's going to talk to him until this gets figured out I don't want anyone to go in the room you're free to go anywhere else that's fine you're not detained or anything but that's what all right is anything going to happen if I don't identify myself you can be arrested for concealing identity yes so okay so you that's what you I want you to say if you don't ID to me right now if I don't give you my ID that you're going to arrest me I want you to give me that ultimatum so just hold on you want to wait you said you wanted to wait to speak to a supervisor so let's just do that all okay then okay thank you and keep your hands out of your pockets for me the suspect a 19-year-old law student was seen allegedly carrying alcohol into his dorm room officer Perle explained that there had been a report of the student walking into the dorm with alcohol which could be a violation if true given his age officer Perle attempted to clarify that he needed to verify the student's identity to proceed with the investigation however the student was adamant about not revealing his identification without a concrete accusation of a crime realizing the complexity of the situation officer Perle decided to call for a supervisor hoping that a higher authority might smooth things over Sergeant John arrived soon after introducing himself and trying to mediate the situation he reiterated the need for the students ID as part of the investigation process hi hi name and bat number please Sergeant John love my badge number is 212 212 all right thank you uh officer said here that if I don't ID I will be subject to arrest is that true possible yes possible yes or no I need I need that ultimatum or else I won't get my ID okay so technically right now yes you could be arrest could I need a yes or no like I need you to tell me if you don't give me your ID right now I'm going to arrest why why would I say that to you because I need that ultimatum cuz right now you're asking yes and I have the right to say no cuz you're asking you're not it's not a lawful order I need you to make it a order being detained for suspicion of minor um in possession of alcohol mhm we need to see your ID okay and if not and if not you could be considered coning identity cuz New Mexico statute says that concealing of identity is a secondary charge I would have to have been arrested or suspected of a crime right now you hear just hear arrested or suspected you're being suspected of a having possession on on walk grounds okay so do you have any alcohol in your possession I don't answer questions on walk grounds okay so you don't have any alcohol in your on W grounds I don't answer questions on ground yeah that's her room bro n they start they're trying to go in bro they're trying to ID me but nah okay so who are you talking to I'm recording you you're recording you're okay that's fine uh so here's the deal by say could what we are trying to do is we're trying to be cooperative with you and have you be cooperative with us and help us clear this matter up okay I gave him my name Joel what's your last name you don't need my last name and you do not need my date of birth unless you want to run me for unless you want to run my name through your system are you trying to run my name through the system you have warrants for your arrest is I don't answer questions I don't answer questions I'm asking questions I don't it's my fifth amendment is it or is it not okay so the question is is that like the officer told you you're being suspected of having possession of alcohol underage so in that case the easiest way to prevent this is for you to let us know either you have you got somebody saw you carry a case of beer you have case of beer in your possession I don't answer questions okay all right um so the other the next the next step in this process would be would you give us consent to check your room n to make sure that you have no alcohol in your possession I do not consent to any surges nor seizures okay okay very good all right um this is completely up to you how you want to play this you can get a warrant or you could so or you have probable cost go ahead right now we do have reasonable suspicion that possibly a crime had been committed we're trying to investigate that mhm you're certainly welcome to refuse if you wish I know but we need to ID you or and if we do not if you do not present your identification you can face it a non-traffic citation you're saying could I need you to say you will I'm giving you the opportunity to no I need that ultimatum I will give you my idea if you say that I'm going to go get arrested if I don't give it to you so you'll give us if we say that if you say that yes sir cuz that's already grounds for me to set up litigation against you so you're threatening to sue us I ain't threat nothing brother that's what you just said it's not a threat it gives you grounds it's not a threat it gives me grounds does it or does it not I don't answer questions okay so the easiest and simp solution to this is for you to tell us your name date of birth Joel Joel what Joel okay by just saying Joel there's a th Joels I need a last name date of birth for what you're going to run conf for the report I need to have your name and I didn't even have to give you my first name for that report you could literally put the citizen or the or the guy or the suspect yes you can work like that yes it does I'm a law student here you're not going to come over here and try to violate my rights so I'm not trying to violate your rights I'm trying to be cooperative with you and you be cooperative with us cooperate with me and accept that I'm not going to give my Ida unless I'm going to I'm going to get arrested say it and I'll give you my ID just say if you don't give me your ID I'm going to arrest you so you want us to threaten yes I want you to give me that ultimatum if you really want the ID threaten you that's not how this is why because you know you can't you know you don't have that ultimatum you know you can because you know that opens up for litigation am I and to make this clear I'm detained right now right corre thank you have to stay over oh no I can't I'm in your view I'm telling you you need to stay over here just keep recording Sean don't let him intimidate you he knew exactly what to say and do get ready to hear how knowing your rights can make a big difference throughout the interaction the Student Records The Exchange on his phone ensuring that there is an account of the conversation throughout the ordeal the student never lost his composure using his understanding of the law to navigate the interrogation tactfully however he challenges the officers seeking a direct statement from them about the consequences of not providing his IID his main argument is that if he is not legally required to show his ID without the prospect of arrest he should not be forced to do so as the conversation intensifies the officers explain that failing to provide identification when asked by law enforcement can indeed lead to an arrest for concealing identity oh let me take my hand out my pocket thank you there's two guys right here with Glocks and scared of a scared of a 19-year-old with the phone bro well I'm not scared of a 19-year-old with the phone I have come on man don't do that okay seriously that's just do you see something in my pocket well we would like for you to do that for us just to be cooperative okay be cooperative like just like for you to say what you want me to do are you googling the LW right now cuz that's really what she should be doing right now all you okay with that yeah continue are you sure you're okay with that yeah I give you a permission oh thank you very much yeah it's okay I appreciate it for me right now okay so sure have a class at the end okay so here's why we need your name and date of birth I'm going to read you the law because you are a law student okay according to New Mexico it's all being recorded yeah know my body camera is running so I'm I'm going use my my own so concealing identity consists of concealing one's true name or Identity or disguising oneself with the intent to obstruct the due execution of the law am I obstructing or yes technically you are with the intent to intimidate hinder or interrupt any public officer or any person in illegal performance of his duties or exercise of his rights under the law of the United States okay so your investigation is investigating that I'm in possession of alcohol right that's exactly if I don't give you if I give you my IDs I going to tell you if I do or do not have alcohol in that room or is it just a way me with something no the ID is so that we can identify who we are talking to if you wish to deny us access to that room that is totally within your rights but you refusing to identify yourself To Us by name and date of birth full name mhm date of birth that is concealing identity yeah okay okay so just tell me that if I don't give you the ID you're going to arrest me just see it show us your ID we need to see your ID or you will be arrested thank you following this clarification the student reluctantly provides his ID this action leads to a verification of his identity and age allowing the officers to detect determine whether any further legal action is needed regarding the underge drinking suspicions yall got that right yeah yeah you got that for real why do you use that term cuz why the are you searching my like we're not searching that's of my identification is it or is it not it's not a seizure it's a seizure of my identification yes or no we just need to see who you are in order to investigation told you my name your legal name your first name what is my Joel not the legal name or what Joel what he has my ID go look at it perfect that's all we needed thank you that's all we needed mhm let's go down here real quick please I able to go in my room no not yet just hold up for just a minute please guys okay so he's denying us for consent to sege that's but we have M so we're going to take make sure we take a report yep and then um so basically we got called some who suspected him of having alcohol in his DM room carrying a case of beer him okay he's 19 years old um we will take a case report on it okay um there will be a case number drawn pretty much basically he's pushing the issue on the consilion identity but now that we've now that we've negated that we don't have to do anymore uh we will take a report just to document the thank you okay any questions uh just the report yeah we'll get that we'll get that here in just all right thank you appreciate it Jo we're done okay have a good night you guys can go to your room now thank you if we really wanted to push the issue we could stop and lock the room down and get it get a search warrant um but we have an anonymous complaint yeah so it's really kind of really kind of one of those things that's up in the we don't want to we don't want to do that he I appreciate you though you're a professional thanks a lot for that thanks however the officers try to calm the situation the student gets angrier and uses strong words to show his frustration he feels targeted by the ID check and once the officers to leave hey right here just listening to you're listening mm all right anything else I can help you guys with you just going to stand around and get P yeah sure just going to stand around and get brother yeah yeah like I think we just Pro I'm get complaints on both of your and she is going to know about cuz he knows who I am chief Donovan knows you Chief Donovan knows who I am okay very all right app it f for real have a nice day yeah and did you find anything with that ID brother did you find out if there's alcohol in here or not with that ID consent so that's fine I didn't exactly so we're not going to we're not going to argue you have well this is actually a common area so we're allowed to go work I pay you for something out of here yes I pay you for out of here cuz you got my ID for no reason brother okay out of here have a nice day sir and that wraps up our case of a tense encounter between law student and campus police this situation shows just how important it is to know your rights and the laws that protect you whether you're a student or not understanding the basics can really make a difference in how you handle such interactions if you have any thoughts or similar experience SES of them in the comments below thanks for watching see you in the next video