good afternoon this is Daniel here with
cops and cons TV just want to welcome
everyone into our live feed today we're
going to be doing a live show really
just going over some of the most
important and interesting uh cases and
police incidents that have happened over
the last couple weeks so I haven't been
here in a couple weeks and I'll get to
that in a second so I definitely want to
welcome everyone back even though we did
take a couple weeks off um again my name
is Daniel you can go ahead and follow me
over everywhere at police law news and
more importantly if you haven't already
subscribed to the channel here over at
cops and con TV please go ahead and do
that and make sure you share it with
your friends and family just so everyone
knows when we are going to do these live
shows that you can get in um and just
like we do every single week that we do
these shows going to go over some of
these really interesting and just
important cases that pretty much I'm
sure you've heard about all of the cases
that we're going to talk about today and
I'm really interested to see what
people's opinions are now the one thing
that I can guarantee you about the cases
that we're going to go through today is
that there's definitely going to be some
disagreement on some of these cases the
third case I'm going to go over I did a
reel of it on Instagram and it's been
the most popular most watched one I've
done and there's controversy on both
sides so no one is happy be on either
side with a lot of these cases and so
we're going to get into them here in a
minute but again yeah I've been gone the
last couple weeks took off to to go to
go on vacation for the for the Fourth of
July and I know I've said it before but
my wife is from a small town in South
Dakota and we always go back to South
Dakota for the Fourth of July for a week
or so and the last two years in this
Tiny Town in South Dakota I always get
pulled over but and I know I've told
stories about that before but this is
the the first time last couple years
that I have not been stopped by police
officers in a in a small town so that
was that was nice I want to welcome
everyone in we've got Barilla from
Colorado uh Molina from Houston uh Steve
Ladner how's it going uh let's see uh
crying in uh I know I missed him here
and he's in Washington and of course
Sergeant George it is good to see you uh
Sergeant George says uh let's see along
with the case that we talk about must
have been really short yes that's good
to see Sergeant George as well from
California all right so this first case
that we're going to talk about in and I
just want everyone want to know so last
night I was on the the failure to stop
podcast it's the old show that Mike the
cop had he's since given it to a couple
other people who run it now but I was on
the failure to stop podcast last night
should be a per it's on their YouTube
channel now should go to podcast
tomorrow but this is the case that we
covered last night so I'm pretty
familiar with it and not only am I
familiar with the case but also all the
different arguments around it so this
has been a pretty big deal so what I'm
really interested in is some discussion
and debate around this case so if I'm
saying something and you disagree with
what I have to say put it in the chat
let's really get into this and see where
we disagree and really how we can just
make policing better so this case is
basically it's a mess for LA County and
this case happened on June 24th of 2023.
hey Shaquille O'Neal how's it going so
this happened in on June 24th 2023 this
is involving the LA County Sheriff's
office now the LA County Sheriff's
Office is the second largest law
enforcement agency in the entire country
in one of the areas that they Patrol
it's called like the Lancaster area or
the Lancaster District um and
essentially there actually is a consent
decree not of the entire sheriff's
department but essentially of this this
District so what I mean by that is the
the the the the the Department of
Justice the doj is involved in police
relations and have they have some kind
of agreement at least in this specific
area so and you know every now and then
there's a case there's a case that
anti-police activists just love where
they just glob onto it and they say this
is the case that we want sometimes they
take a case even if it isn't relevant to
all other police officers where these
anti-police activists want to say this
is the case that we're going to point to
and we are going to say we're going to
pretend we're going to lie that this is
how all eight hundred thousand police
officers behave in the United States and
this case pretty much has it all for
these anti-police activists because this
case involves young white cops older
black suspects a misdemeanor crime a
questionable use of force and a magic
catchphrase of I I can't breathe that
once you say it it's you know it's going
to go viral so again this happened on
June 24th 2023 over at a WinCo grocery
store now there was a call to police a
9-1-1 call two police officers from the
employees at the store now there's a
little bit of a dispute of exactly what
was said and the reason why we don't
know exactly what was said to the 9-1-1
is because we don't have a copy of that
tape yet we have tried to get it and we
just don't have a copy of the 911 tape
but what's been reported is that this
came out to police officers so the
information that police officers had is
that this was a robbery in progress now
a robbery is a pretty serious crime and
you know besides besides murder and
kidnapping and sexual assault you know
robbery that's one of the one of the few
felonies that police officers you know
Eve that will take seriously police
officers will get into different kinds
of chases and Pursuits in order to stop
suspects of this particular crime so it
did come out as a robbery in progress
now some of the other information that
that was given is the suspect the
description of the suspect so
essentially the suspects were described
as an older black couple a male and a
female and also that one of the things
that the individual stole during this
robbery was a cake so you know and again
police officers know especially if
you've been on a while that just because
that's what the dispatch says you know
you're reading your computer as you're
going to the call you're listening to
what the dispatcher says now just
because they say that doesn't mean it's
correct so that's one of the interesting
hard things and you know really fun
things about being a police officer on
patrol is that even though you're going
to a call you think you know what you're
gonna get it's always going to be a
little different sometimes it's way
different but this is one of those cases
so police officers get to that call and
as soon as they get to the call here's
what they see they they see two
individuals standing outside the store
who appear to be the suspects and one of
the individuals he's an older black man
probably about 60 years old and he's
holding a cake well these are the
suspects of the of the crime he's
holding a cake like this this makes
sense um the store employees point find
out that those are the individuals who
are the suspects now here's the thing
about robberies any police officer any
police officer knows that when you rob
some when you rob a store or you commit
a felony or you do something really bad
inside of a store most of the time those
offenders aren't standing around waiting
to talk to police officers in the
parking lot holding a cake so that
should be a first clue for arriving
police officers that okay yes this came
out as a robbery in progress but we have
the two suspects who could have fled
they could have left the scene but
they're not they're just standing there
kind of sitting on like these big like
decorative stones and one of them is
holding a cake not a typical vehicle
they're not in they're not you know in
custody they're not being they're not
being held by loss prevention they're
just standing there on their own so this
would be the first clue to arriving
police officers that okay maybe this
doesn't make complete sense exactly what
was said so police officer gets there on
scene and the first thing he does is he
does use some de-escalation tactics he
stands it by the front of his door so he
doesn't just run up to the male suspect
and you know go Hands-On and put them in
the handcuffs he basically stands by the
front of his door and he starts to give
commands he tells the individual to put
his hands on the car he tells the
individual to sit down and he lets the
individual know that he's being detained
so again now yes he was kind of just the
officer was just kind of shouting
commands at the mail but that is a form
of de-escalation because the police
officer again he could have just ran up
to the male suspect and immediately went
Hands-On instead of doing that he used
time he used distance and he did give
commands essentially telling the
individual what they wanted him to do
after 30 seconds or so in second police
officer arrived on scene it was at that
point that both police officers went
over to the male suspect and they placed
him in handcuffs now he was verbally
non-compliant meaning he was saying that
he didn't want to be arrested he was
saying that he didn't want to be in
handcuffs at one point while the
officers were placing handcuffs on the
mail he said I'm gonna bust loose but
the thing is he doesn't he doesn't
physically resist and he allows the
police officer to handcuff cuff also
during the handcuffing process the
police officers tell them hey you're not
being arrested you're just being
detained right now while we it happens
while they are placed in the mail in
handcuffs a female she's probably a 60
year old female she walks over to the
police officers and she probably gets
you know within 10 or 15 feet of the
police officers while they are
handcuffing the mail and she puts a
camera in their face which is fine
that's completely legal to do I see the
see the thing is about this is that not
only is she recording on her cell phone
the police officers are recording with
their body camera footage so the idea
that police officers are irritated that
she's filming makes absolutely no sense
because they are filming themselves so
so she walks over to the police officer
she starts filming now again there were
two suspects to this call there was
definitely Reasonable Suspicion for
police officers to detain both
individuals and they detained the mail
first so what happened is one of the
police officers he then walks over and
he approaches the female again who was
standing there pretty much with a camera
right in his face and he starts to to
get her into custody now this is where I
approaches the female suspect he pretty
much immediately goes Hands-On with the
female suspect what he does is he
doesn't say ma'am you're under arrest
ma'am you're being being uh detained for
this crime ma'am you are I need to put
your hands behind your back he doesn't
give her an advisement that she's under
arrest he doesn't tell her she's being
detained are are actually
required for police officers to do they
don't have to give a warning of force
they don't always have to tell someone
that they are being arrested but it's
one of those things where it is helpful
for police officers to do especially
police officers who work for a
department that is at any way involved
with the Department government of
justice so the officer he basically goes
Hands-On with the female and she starts
screaming and and I just want to say
whenever I see something like this it
kind of reminds me of that line in Fight
Club where it's like where he goes what
did you think was going to happen it
means okay so you know that the police
were called you know that you were
involved later on it's found out that
this woman is the one who actually
assaulted lost prevention employees
inside so you know that the police were
called they're handcuffing the mail you
know that you are with the male you're
walking up to the police officers
putting a camera about 10 feet from
their face the idea that you also aren't
going to be handcuffed doesn't make any
sense so again she seems all surprised
and she says and she says um and the
thing is it's like what did you think
was going to happen so um so it's um so
she he goes Hands-On and and essentially
when he goes hands on with uh when he
goes Hands-On with the the female she
resists arrest she actively resists she
ends up on the ground
um there was a there was a takedown on
the ground also um once on the ground
the officer does threaten to punch her
so he says something to the effect of
like if you don't comply I'm gonna punch
you in the face and she says um uh you
know she didn't seem to be that afraid
of being punched in the face because her
response to that was if you punch me in
the face I'm gonna sue you so you know
it's it's one of those things where you
know it was she what was she really
after in this case because she had to
know that she was going to be detained
as well um the officer while he's trying
to get into custody he does use pepper
spray um again pepper spray isn't my
thing that's my favorite Force option
but the police officer does utilize uh
pepper spray on this woman also then she
yells I can't breathe and uh get your
knee off my neck now the thing about
that is is as she yells that she is
laying down on her back because the
police officer was trying to roll her
over onto her stomach but she was
actively resisting so here she is she's
laying on her back the still frame from
the body camera footage when she says I
can't breathe you're on my neck the
police officer's hands feet Knees Toes
every part of the police officer's body
you can clearly see is nowhere near her
neck so we know that this woman is just
a liar she's just an absolute liar the
police officer does eventually get her
into handcuffs um so that's the case
there's been all kinds of protests about
it one of the things that happened is is
that black lives matter and other
protesters in the Lancaster area they
went to the WinCo store that's the
grocery store where all this happened
and they basically protested at the
grocery store 30 to 40 people with signs
and they were screaming and yelling they
basically went into the store took over
the entire store scared customers scared
staff
Uninvited obviously and they were
basically walking around protesting in
the store now again I'm not sure what
they are protesting because these two
individuals the what the the statement
is from loss prevention is that they did
try to steal a cake that it wasn't
actually a robbery it was more like a
theft and then when confronted by loss
prevention there was a battery on loss
prevention which wouldn't constitute a
robbery but it would constitute a couple
of pretty serious misdemeanors the
shoplifting and then the the battery or
assault on the loss prevention members
so you know what exactly what exactly
are what exactly are they trying to
trying to protest here that that
shoplifting should be allowed that if
you better sell that if you batter a
loss prevention person that they they
shouldn't call police officers like this
just doesn't make a whole lot of sense
but you know but if you notice if you
ever watch this video the WinCo store
they pretty much allow these protesters
to do whatever they want they don't
they don't uh they don't they don't um
they don't try to stop them they don't
call they don't call police um and yeah
I mean cakes are not felony cakes lives
matter
um but it's it's one of those things
where it's the the store pretty much has
to do this they have to get in given
they have to cower to these anti-police
Maniacs because if not you know the way
that this used to happen is it's no
longer is it the the mafia showing up at
a local business saying oh you know what
it would be a real shame if something
happened to your store it's not that
anymore what it is it's Ben Crump who
walks in in a shirt and a tie and a
smile and that's how this happens that
is how these businesses are shaken down
um so that that that's the case that is
that that's going on right now um in in
in in L.A County
um in the L.A County Sheriff's
department and again
the police officers did have Reasonable
Suspicion to detain
um now I'm not crazy about them having
the handcuffs let's talk about the
handcuffing so just because there's
Reasonable Suspicion to detain that
doesn't mean that police officers have
to handcuff and I know this is an issue
I've gone back and forth on Instagram
and Tick Tock and a couple other
platforms on this case that yes I'm not
saying that the police officers did
anything legally wrong when it comes to
handcuffing the two individuals okay so
let me just put that out there now that
all of this is under that umbrella
nothing legally wrong nothing against
law or policy when it comes to the
police officers placing the two
individuals in handcuffs because there
absolutely was reasonable Reasonable
Suspicion of a crime but my question is
do you have to put them in the handcuffs
and I know that it's different so maybe
it's just the the department that I
worked with or maybe it's not even the
department that that I worked with maybe
just my personal style that you know you
don't have to handcuff everybody and if
especially if you haven't conducted your
investigation here's what I mean by this
so you have two individuals yes I know
the call came out robbery in progress
but you get there it clearly that wasn't
100 correct because these two people
weren't actually acting like someone who
just committed a violent felony so you
have two individuals they're both 60
years old they're both there was no yes
they could have a weapon but there's no
report that they had a weapon so likely
two elderly people or older people they
were older people they were likely
unarmed they didn't use a weapon in a
crime and most importantly they waited
to talk to police they didn't they
didn't leave they didn't leave
um they didn't leave the scene they
waited to talk to police actually while
the police officers were placing the man
in handcuffs he even says like I waited
here to talk to you like I'm not trying
to go anywhere and here's how I see this
that if you're a police officer and you
get to a call like this and it's obvious
that there probably isn't any real
danger because again the two people are
are are are older who are standing there
they're waiting talk to police the man
is holding a cake that you know and he
wants to talk to the police officer so
you have someone you want the police
officer should be wanting to conduct and
the police officer should be wanting to
conduct an investigation and here you
have a guy who wants to tell a story
because he wants to talk to you before
you tell him he's detained you don't
have to read the uh Miranda warning like
he wants to tell you a story let him
tell a story let him talk to you that's
my personal opinion on this and like I
said I I'm not saying that it was wrong
for the police officers to handcuff they
absolutely can I just don't think that
it was the best idea to do my other
issue with this is that they did not
give any kind of a warning a force or
any kind of of an indication to tell the
woman that she was under arrest you know
really what you have to look at is the
question that we should be asking is
okay there are situations where police
officers immediately have to go Hands-On
with a suspect for their safety for the
safety of the police officer or the
safety of the public we can all think of
cases where that happens no doubt but so
the question we have to ask was it
feasible was it possible was it
reasonable for the police officer to
give a warning that force was going to
be utilized or that um to tell the
person they're under rest so I think
with this woman um especially because
this has become such a huge media thing
I honestly think that for this for for
this woman that the officer should have
at least said ma'am you're under arrest
ma'am you're being detained man put your
hands behind your back so give her the
commands tell her she's under arrest
give her the commands tell her what to
do then you don't have to sit there and
debate with her and go back and forth
for an hour but you can give her 30
seconds to comply that just seems like a
reasonable thing to do police officers
didn't have to do that here
um but this is the kind of thing that we
know is not going to look great let's
see what kind of comments we have on
this we have a lot of people who like
cake but that's great let's see Diane
Martin says uh Democrats are backing uh
them all the way yes they absolutely are
uh Dan K says felony uh different or
requirements for arrest yeah Dan yeah I
know definitely every crime has a has a
different uh has a different uh
different elements to it sixth sense
says uh not sure BLM rioters are simply
here for peaceful protest it's my
opinion but it's only excuse to do
something bad I think that can happen
Sergeant George says coming from someone
uh like me who loves cakes nothing about
this made any sense at all um yeah I'm
not sure how much I'm curious what
didn't make Sergeant Georgia about why
people are upset or why the police
officers acted the way that they did
again they did have Reasonable Suspicion
to detain um so that was a case out in
in La uh LA Sheriff's department now the
second case is also going to be about
the LA Sheriff's Department but this is
one that's going to be a little bit
different and I think it's important I
don't like to really talk Politics on
the show but this is going to be local
politics when it comes to La so I want
you to think about how the sheriff um
the the the the the new sheriff how he
handled this so the case that I just
talked about was a recent case so there
was just an election Sheriff Villanueva
he just he just lost the election so
there's a new sheriff can't remember his
name on top of my head but there's a
there's a there's a new sheriff um in
L.A County now so the case that he's
talking and when the sheriff went on TV
and talked about this case what he said
is that you know well we don't have all
the information
um you know we're gonna we're gonna pull
the officers from the street we don't
have all the information we're going to
do an investigation and he was to to the
Sheriff's credit he was very measured
about this very measured about to this
case and his name is Robert Luna is the
sheriff right now but very measured
about this case when he talked about it
but it happened under his watch so there
was another case that happened last year
so back in uh back in July 13th of 2022
there's a case that just came out and we
just got the body camera footage now the
difference is that at the time July of
22 there was a different Sheriff so I'm
just going to start this out by saying
that the sheriff the new sheriff didn't
did a I did a news conference about this
case and he called it completely
unacceptable is what he said the actions
from the sheriff's deputies now to me it
seems political because when I tell you
about this case that I'm sure the body
camera footage actually just came out
yesterday so if you haven't seen it
already I'm sure you're going to it's
going to be on every National it's going
to be on every national uh new site um
pretty much out there tonight and over
the weekend so it's a good thing you're
sticking around here and you could
definitely hear some of the things that
I promise you that the national media
isn't going to talk about when it comes
to this case so let's just get into it
so this was July 13 2022 and essentially
uh sheriff's deputies were driving
around at night and they conducted a
traffic stop on a vehicle that didn't
have any headlights now that is a
completely reasonable
um reason to conduct a traffic stop no
headlights at night that's a traffic
violation that's a reason to conduct a
traffic stop so that's exactly what
sheriff's deputies did they conducted a
legal valid traffic stop and they made
contact with the driver when they
contacted the driver they learned a
couple things like police officers do
during traffic stop they learned that
the driver did not have a valid driver's
license they also learned that he was
intoxicated that they felt that he was
driving while intoxicated so they were
going to conduct a DUI investigation Not
only was he uh there was suspicion of
drunk driving by the driver but let's
talk about who the passengers were there
were three passengers in the car well
actually there's six passengers in the
car but there were three adult
passengers in the car three young women
were in the back seat of the car and
they all had an infant child on their
laps three women three infant zero car
seats holding the kids
um holding the kids in their laps um
with their hands so now the police
officers not only do they have someone
who who wasn't driving with headlights
doesn't have a license maybe it's
intoxicated now you have something
totally different because so when
anybody is either when you're driving in
a car drunk and you have children not
only is that drunk driving but that's
also typically felony level child
endangerment now not only have felony
level offenses for the driver but you
also have felony offenses for the mother
because
um because the children are minors they
were all pretty much infants all three
of these kids were infants so and the
mothers are are the ones who decided to
get in the car with someone who is
intoxicated so
um so it's basically felony level child
endangerment for the mothers as well now
when something like this happens here's
going to be what the process is the
driver is going to go through a DUI
investigation and if they are proved to
be um impaired or at least probable
cause that they're impaired they're
going to be taken to jail for driving
while intoxicating and maybe charged
with the felony child endangerment as
well the the mothers the adults who were
in charge of these kids who put these
kids in this horribly dangerous
situation those individuals are going to
be arrested as well for child
endangerment now what happens to the
kiddo so so the police departments and
Sheriff's departments and state laws
they basically require police
departments to do different things most
of the time what happens with the kids
it really isn't up to the police
officers most of the time most of the
time there's a policy there's a plan
there's a law there's something in place
that tells the police officers what
they're supposed to do and I mean this
is good police officers absolutely
should have discretion but having some
type of a structured plan for kiddos
when their parents are arrested that's a
good and reasonable thing so what the
what the police officers decided to do
um again the law or policy is basically
because the parent the mothers were
going to be arrested for child
endangerments they were going to call um
Child Protective Services now once Child
Protective Services
um gets involved they can take custody
of the kiddos they can they can call
family members they can vet them and
they can do all of that stuff that
really is something that you want social
workers to do and not police I hope that
we can all at least agree on that so in
order to now when we get down to it like
so how does that work you have mothers
who are literally Clinging On to their
kids and police officers who have to
make a lawful arrest of the parents and
then take the kiddos and give the kiddos
to Child Protective Services well two of
the three mothers refuse to let go of
their children they were they were
essentially using their kids like like
pawns and holding on to them they
refused to let go and the police
officers enlisted all the body cam
footages out there I would encourage
everyone Sergeant George I agree the
children are the real victims and that's
what people need to realize so what you
have to think about what you have to
think about here is that police officers
in in this situation they they have to
somehow make all of this work what's the
best way to do it and I can tell you
there's about eight minutes of body
camera footage out there that I watched
this morning that is really interesting
I can tell you it's not like the police
officers ordered them out and
immediately snatched the kids like like
child snatchers like as soon as the as
soon as they exit the car no the police
officers actually talked to these women
for about eight minutes they used Crisis
Intervention techniques even though
these women were technically under
arrest and police officers could have
immediately just gone hands on instead
of doing that the police officers talk
to them and negotiated with them and
tried to de-escalate the situation for
eight minutes if you watch the body
camera footage you can tell that they're
really not getting anywhere not throw
any fault of the police officer but the
two women are just completely
unreasonable what I mean by that is one
woman as she's clinging under her child
again she's technically under arrest for
a felony she's Clinging On to her child
yelling at the police officers that
they're gonna have to shoot her again
not a reasonable person okay so you're
not dealing with reasonable you're not
dealing with reasonable people here So
eventually police officers do use force
on the women in order to get the
children out of their hands and one of
them has been a big deal but let me talk
about both of them so here's the one
that really people aren't talking a
whole lot about because the second one
is where people have the issue with and
what the sheriff called unacceptable so
the first one is the woman is sitting on
the ground and as she's sitting on the
ground she has a child in her lap the
police officer tells the woman and they
actually say this three different times
to her so again again I like I like it
when police officers give a warning of
force or tell people hey I need you to
do this if you don't this is going to
happen I like when police officers do
that because if possible I want police
officers to avoid you using force and
giving people a reasonable amount of
time in order to comply I think is a
good idea if possible that's what the
police officers did in this situation at
least with this first woman so they told
her multiple times hey here's what's
going to happen I'm going to take the
baby out of your arms and if you don't
comply or you don't cooperate these two
officers are going to hold your arms
while I do that but we would prefer if
you just cooperate and hand me the baby
for everybody's safety so again they
went through this with her three
different times um so of course
obviously everybody knows where this is
going is that the police of the female
police officer goes to grab grab the
child she starts holding on to the child
so two police officers do grab the
woman's arms and hold her and she starts
screaming like she's like she's you know
being being tortured um which is
absolutely ridiculous and the police
officers are able to safely take the
baby nothing happens she's put in
handcuffs she gets arrested just like
she should be arrested now the other one
is a little bit more controversial
um and then I'm gonna admit it's
absolutely more controversial here's
what happens the woman this is the woman
she's standing up so she's not sitting
down so you have to think about if the
baby falls from a seated position the
baby's gonna fall you don't want a baby
to fall at all but the baby's gonna fall
about a foot now if you're standing up
the baby could fall four to five feet
right so that's that's a more dangerous
situation that you're dealing with and
you're also dealing with a more
unreasonable mother what I mean by that
this is the woman who is clinging on to
her baby and the police officer trying
to talk to her and she's yelling you're
going to have to shoot me you're going
to have to shoot me well again if you're
trying to show police officers that
you're a reasonable person and that
you're a good mother probably yelling
that police officers are going to have
to shoot you not putting anything in
that bucket of evidence that you're a
reasonable normal human being who can
make good decisions with a child right
so police officers do the same thing
they tell her what's going to happen she
refuses she's saying the cops are going
to have to shoot her which obviously
they are not going to do so what the
police officers do is they did the same
things before they tell her what's going
to happen and they grab her arms and
they grab the baby but she is holding on
tight and she is not letting go so now
you have a real safety issue that
because she's holding on to the baby so
tight and it's at that point that a male
police officer punches the woman in the
face two different times now there is a
there is a deputy on scene who is does
have control of the baby nothing happens
to the baby but what this is what this
is being billed as as male police
officer hits woman in the face while
she's holding a baby well yes he does he
absolutely does so now we have to talk
about like was that reasonable was it
not reasonable well you know that's
that's something that we could
absolutely debate so what I would if you
say it's not reasonable I'm good with
that I'm 100 good with that but what
would you like the police officer to do
so what would you like the police
officer they already talked to her for
eight minutes again she's not reasonable
she's telling police officers screaming
at the top of her lungs that they're
gonna have to shoot her and kill her
okay so again what do you expect the
police officers to do you can't use mace
or pepper spray obviously because it's a
baby right there you can't use pepper
spray you can't you use you can't use a
a Dan K if you have any answers why
don't you put them in instead of just
trolling
um so you can't use you can't use pepper
spray you can't use a Taser you can't
use any of those intermediate weapons at
some point when you're grabbing the
woman's arms and she won't let you won't
let the police officer take the baby
um she won't let the police officer take
the baby at some point the police
officers have to do something so you
know a lot of the time what police
officers do get some of the custody they
do some kind of a takedown they do an
empty hand takedown well obviously you
can't do an empty hand takedown if a
woman or if someone is holding a baby
you can't do a takedown so again if you
say this wasn't a reasonable thing for
the police to do I'm good with that but
what I'm not good with is you saying the
police are bad the police shouldn't have
done this without giving me an option of
what they should do so tell me what you
want to the police officers to do now is
there something else they could they
could do I'm sure there is but tell me
what it is don't just give a blanket
that the police were bad so the police
officers arrested the woman that's
exactly what they should do now what
this story should be about this story
should be about deputies who basically
save children from a drunk driver and
from their abusive mothers that's what
this story should be about but it's not
there is going to be protests maybe even
riots over this case and the sheriff
unlike in the first case where the
sheriff said the the one that happened
under his watch where he says you know
we're still looking at all the evidence
we're going to have to see what happens
the investigation you know we're gonna
we're gonna do the uh uh we're gonna go
through the the investigation here
instead of doing that he's saying this
is unacceptable and he's basically said
that the case has gone to the district
attorney's office and he's basically in
the media trying to get the problem so
who was the actual problem the women
were the problem the drunk driver was
the problem thank God that those
deputies stopped that car before three
children may have died in a drunk
driving accident with horrible mothers
who were not uh where the kids weren't
in any kind of Safe child seats
um
so that's that case I'm curious to what
anybody says and we have a lot of
comments on here from a couple people
saying why are these why are you even
asking these questions
um but again but again
um Steve Ladner says punch a woman in
the face take the child yeah you gotta
listen to the whole case Steven again if
you don't think the cops should have
done that I'm good with it um just so
you know I'm in Albuquerque New Mexico
not all that long ago there were two
women who pled guilty
um of killing their kids in the same
type of case uh essentially uh there
were two children um who were in a car
with two mothers both mothers were drunk
out of their minds
um one of the mothers was was driving
and it was actually a single uh a single
car crash um and the thing about it was
it was actually streamed live one of the
drunk mothers was actually streaming
live right before the crash so um two
kids died and both mothers pled guilty
so the idea that you know kids driving
around unsecured in a car uh without
without drunk drivers um with it without
I mean with drunk drivers isn't isn't um
isn't a a dangerous or serious thing
that just isn't the case so thankfully
those police officers were able to stop
not only the criminal who is driving
drunk with kids in the car but also the
the criminal mothers who didn't care
about their kids enough to make sure
that they were uh with a safe driver in
a car seat which is absolutely a
disgusting thing to do but that case is
going to be everywhere so when you hear
about and you listen to it think about
what we talked about in this video
because I promise you they are not going
to tell you everything even the
politicians who run the sheriff's
department are not going to tell you
everything about this case and again I'm
good with it if you don't think that the
use of force was the best thing the
officer could have done in the situation
I'm good with it just tell me what you
want the cop to do tell me what you want
the cop to do and let's have a
discussion there because that's specific
criticism all right so this next case
that we're going to talk about is and
this is a case that
you know I I I said and after I'd go
over this case I'm going to tell you a
personal story about when I was bit by a
dog on duty but this case
is happened in Lorraine Ohio over the
Fourth of July weekend and uh with Dixie
the dog so Dixie the labrador dog now
I'm just gonna put it out there I'm a
dog lover I have two big uh Great
Pyrenees type dogs
um they're awesome dogs I I absolutely I
absolutely love dogs but I understand
that everyone doesn't but there are so
many people who like dogs so I do put up
content over on Tick Tock is my main
Channel I do put some up on Instagram as
well both of those you can follow me
over at police law news I'll be honest
the stuff I do on Tick Tock um gets so
much more traction than it does on
Instagram but I put a video a reel up on
this on Instagram uh the other day and
before I came on the show today had 182
000 views which again that that's by far
the most uh the most watched video I've
had on Instagram so that's it's nothing
that I'm doing different so I know this
is the case that people just really care
about so again this happened in Lorraine
Ohio over the Fourth of July weekend so
what happened was there's a woman named
Tammy Kearns and she has four dogs they
all look like Lab mixed type dogs maybe
golden retriever mixes but the four dogs
got loose so this is in a residential
area and at this point there was no
there was no um there was no call or to
police that anyone had been bit or or as
far as I know or anything like that but
this four dogs were loose and it wasn't
just Tammy who was trying to gain
control of her dogs but it was a bunch
of people who were in the neighborhood
who were trying to gain control of her
dogs as well and get them back to her um
what happened was there was a dog that
was running around uh and and a police
officer arrives on scene he pretty much
Parks you know almost directly across
the street in the residential
neighborhood from where Tammy is and you
can see her trying to get her dogs
um so she he the police officer steps
out of the car and a dog runs towards
him as a dog runs towards him now
there's no audio and let me get to that
in a second there's no audio on the body
camera video so I can't say what the
officer said so I'm just gonna say it
appears like the officer called the dog
over now maybe he didn't because we
don't have audio and I'll get to that in
a second like I said but um the officer
but you can send the body camera video
but he kind of waves the dog like this
so a dog does come by him runs up to him
he kind of he kind of waves it in
um then then the dog almost as soon as
the dog gets him it turns around runs
away then another dog who looks pretty
much the same as the first dog you know
maybe like a 70 pound 60 70 pound lab
type mix dog another dog named Dixie
then runs towards the towards the police
officer and you know a seemingly almost
the same manner as the first dog for
whatever reason the police officer
thought that this dog was a threat even
though again it was running towards him
in almost the same in almost the same
way and the police officer shoots the
dog right before it gets to him shoots
the dog before he gets to him the dog
started the dog obviously stops because
it's hit and starts to run away and the
police officer fires a couple more times
and the dog dies on scene Dixie the dog
dies right there um obviously obviously
the Tammy the owner is livid she is
absolutely out of her mind screaming and
yelling at the police officer which I
get not only is she upset but people
come out of houses other people were
helping trying to trying to Corral these
dogs and basically the whole
neighborhood descends on the police
officer screaming and yelling at the
police officer and this case didn't just
end there this case got so bad that
there was actually protests I'm in this
little town of Lorraine Ohio called
Justice for Dixie so they were shutting
down intersections and streets and
there's all kinds of all kinds of
protests and signs and all kinds of
stuff for Dixie the dog people want the
police officer fired now the officer has
been now the now the the the the police
officer has been um yeah and I just want
to say that you know this whole Justice
for Dixie thing where I I do not think
that the police officer was in the right
um but you know this really does have
the Vibes of a Parks and Rec uh rest in
peace little Sebastian
um so it does have that um Shaquille
oatmeal uh why did he shoot two extra
shots yeah that's a good question Shaq
we're gonna get to that here in a second
I I got the I've got the same question
on that um yeah so um everyone's
everyone's upset about this
um and it got so much traction in social
media so not just my Instagram account
with it with a with a reel that has 180
000 views but this got so much traction
in social media that the Lorraine Ohio
Police Department shut down their
Facebook page that's how much that
they were getting because of this case
um so now I've got a bunch of different
thoughts on this case but let me talk to
you first about the gut body camera
footage because uh obviously when you
have a video that that gets that many
views you get all kinds of comments but
multiple people commented multiple
people on my on my uh on my on my video
commented something like how come you
cut the audio how come the audio isn't
on there well it's because it's because
the video didn't have any audio let me
explain how some of these cameras work
so the camera that the officer was using
was an axon body camera it's made by the
taser company it's really one of the
absolute best body cameras that has
great storage it has it's expensive for
police departments but it's pretty much
top of the line when it comes to body
cameras the way that it works is when
it's on it the the uh it's pretty much
always the best way that I can explain
it not being a tech person the best way
that I can explain it is that it's
pretty much always running meaning the
video is always going but it's just not
recording so when a police officer hits
the button you hit the button twice and
the camera turns on once you hit the
button twice what shows up later on in
your video file is it everything from 30
seconds before you hit the video so
let's say I'm going to a call for
service I step out of my car as soon as
I step out of my car I hit the button
well what's going to show when I watch
my video later it's going to show 30
seconds before I hit my 30 seconds
before I turned it on is is what's going
to be on that video so essentially just
think of it this way you get 30 seconds
of extra video but no audio the audio
starts the second that you hit the
button so that's kind of how that works
so the officer in this case did not
start recording until after the shooting
so that's why when the first dog runs up
to him when Dixie runs up to him that's
why there's no audio for this particular
body camera footage because he didn't
turn the camera on until after so that's
the best way that that I can I can I can
explain why that happens and I'm really
curious to see who disagrees with me on
this now again when it comes to dogs and
listen working working as working as a
police officer thank you Daryl working
as a police officer on the street I was
in uniform for 15 years before I went
into a detective work but in my 15 years
of working on the street I've worked
with several different police officers
who were afraid of dogs they didn't like
dogs and you know what I'm gonna say
that's okay not everybody likes dogs not
everybody not every person likes put
likes dogs um sometimes police officers
are afraid of dogs and that's okay it's
okay for a couple reasons it's because
police officers have no training on how
to deal with dogs they also have no
equipment with how to deal with dogs so
here's my advice not only this isn't
some brilliant advice that I came up
with on my own no this is what I saw 15
years of working on the street in a
pretty big city this is how I saw police
officers who were kind of afraid of dogs
this is what they would do in situations
like this the first thing is to call
animal control because we most City
cities and counties again not all not
all cities not all counties but really
most places in the United States have
some type of animal control so call
Animal Control
um and let them handle the call now
while you're waiting for animal control
or even if Animal Control isn't coming
out what you should do as a police
officer is you're afraid of dogs is
don't get out of your car don't get out
of your car especially you are just
going to make things worse what you
should do as a police officer is you
should just try to do what you can to
keep your eye on the dog and maybe you
know try to communicate with the owners
the people who are trying to get the dog
trying to get the dog back and block
traffic basically you can block traffic
you can turn on your lights and Sirens
you can let other vehicles know like hey
there's a dog running in the street and
really especially if a dog is running
near a big street as a police officer
you're probably going to do more good
with that than getting out of the car
and being one of 15 people who are
trying to Corral a dog that's probably
the the best use of your resources
anyways because you have a car that has
lights and Sirens whereas regular people
don't have that kind of stuff so stay in
your car block traffic if you're afraid
of dogs also if the dog is actually
dangerous and you actually have to walk
up to a dog think about it just like
check kilo oatmeal just said mailmen and
male women they do this kind of stuff
all the time so if you do have to get
out of your car there are other
different Force options that you could
have to try to keep a dog away so let's
say and again if a dog is just running
loose here's my opinion tell me if you
guys think I'm wrong there is no
obligation for the police officer to
jump out of the car and to join in the
chase with the dog trying to get the dog
back into custody again no obligation
for a police officer that but if a dog
is dangerous if a dog actually has
bitten has bitten someone or dog is
vicious well and that wasn't the case
here but you can you can use pepper
spray you can use a Taser you can use
your baton there are definitely
different Force options
that if you absolutely have to get out
of your car there are definitely
different Force options that you can use
against a dog again pepper spray works
great now now if we're going to kind of
relate this if we're going to kind of
relate this back to the first case I I
far prefer using pepper spray on Dixie
the dog than the 60 year old black
female just to be completely honest
um but that's what would work here and
again there was just no reason for the
police officer to get out of his car um
the people didn't call police the dog
wasn't vicious and again being
especially if you're afraid so I'm just
trying to get into the mind of the
police officer here so obviously he's
afraid of dogs or he doesn't like dogs
for for some reason which again is okay
that's not a crime that's fine cops have
no training or equipment to deal with
dogs if you don't like dogs that's fine
but if you know that about yourself you
know that about yourself hey I'm not
crazy about dogs I don't really like
dogs all that much if one runs at me I'm
probably going to be afraid so why put
yourself in a position to where you are
going to react with deadly force at
least Stand by Your car like in the
doorway with the door halfway opened
where if the dog does rub run up on you
can just get back in and and uh close
and close the door so this doesn't make
a whole lot of sense
um I I don't I don't think that this was
a reasonable officer involved shooting
um I I the dog didn't seem to be vicious
and no I get it no one should have to
take a dog bite but it just in my mind
when it comes to police officers and
different calls for service there are
things that police officers can do
before there's a use of force that you
know really is just such a tactical
error that they're almost causing the
use of force and that's what this that's
what this seemed like to me it was 100
unnecessary for the officer to get out
of his car and again he must have known
if this dog runs towards me I'm gonna
shoot it like just stay in your car
there's absolutely no reason to get out
of your car and um yeah someone uh uh
someone had a question earlier
um I can't remember who it was but
someone had a question earlier and asked
you know why did he shoot in more than
one time well no that that makes sense
because after the first shot the dog
stops and starts to cry and immediately
changes Direction so well I mean you
have to think of it this way a police
officer typically trained to shoot at
least twice um a lot of times a failure
drill is is three rounds so you know
when police officers go on the reins the
vast majority of the time they're not
firing just one shot so my guess is just
it was just muscle memory and um there
wasn't any any other reason to it other
than that but yeah Justice for Dixie so
um okay we're gonna end the show here in
a second but I said I would talk about a
time where I was bit by a dog on duty I
was bit by a dog on duty when I was uh
it was my second year on back in 2007
and uh it was the first and only time I
was ever bit by a dog I was driving uh
working graveyard not a great area of
town as I was driving down the street I
noticed that there was a dog laying in
the middle of the street kind of like a
residential street but uh you know what
not like a highway but kind of like a
two-lane road
um to two lanes in each Direction
moderate traffic at night I noticed that
there was a dog laying um laying in the
middle of the road and at that point I
didn't know know if it was I assume that
it had been struck by a car but I didn't
know if it was dead or alive so I do
what I should have done I called out
over the radio I stopped my police car
uh behind the dog and I got out just to
see what was going on with it um I could
tell the dog was still alive it was
pretty sad dog was definitely still
alive but this thing was injured it was
going to be fatally injured I mean this
thing didn't have a whole lot of time so
I called Animal Control just like I
should have done Animal Control got
there really quick it was like 11
o'clock at night they work you know 24 7
pretty much so Animal Control did get
there on scene uh the the little guy
with animal control he said to me he
said all right listen here's what we're
going now this dog is about an 80 pound
dog it wasn't a small dog but you know
kind of a bigger dog and a small guy who
worked for animal control and he said to
me all right here's what I'm gonna do
I'm gonna put a muzzle on this thing and
then he gave me some gloves he said I'm
gonna put a muzzle on this thing he's
like I'm gonna grab the front of the dog
kind of by its head and when at when I
do can you grab the back of the dog kind
of like by its back legs and if you
could help me lift it up we're gonna put
it into the back of the van and you know
we can get it taken care of and you
probably have to be euthanized and I
said yeah of course I I don't mind
helping of course I'm going to help so
he backed up his his animal control
truck to write to uh right to where the
the the dog was um I put gloves on he
said okay I got the muzzle on the dog
and I see something over the dog's face
he put a muzzle on the dog he lifts up
his end of the dog I lift up the back
end of the dog he gets his end of the
dog in and I'm and I'm taking a couple
steps to swing my end around somehow the
muzzle of the dog comes off turns around
and it bites me in the hand bites me in
my right hand uh it felt numb I'm not
gonna get into it but it obviously it
wasn't any fun first thing I'm going to
say not the dog's fault not the dog's
fault 100 not the dog this dog is just
being a dog it was a animal
control guy's fault because however he
put the muzzle on he didn't put it on
correctly because the muzzle came off
um so you know for about two days I
wasn't able to move my hand had to take
off all that kind of stuff but um that
was the one only time that I was ever
bit by a dog on duty but it was not the
dog's fault it was the animal control
guy's fault and second and I guess
second it was my fault for trusting the
animal control guy so um yeah that was
my story about being bit by a dog on
duty only happened one time in 15 years
on the street all right so that's going
to be our show for today I really
appreciate everybody coming in and the
questions
um just like we do every week um I I
check the chat throughout the week and I
definitely check the chat throughout the
week so if there is a case that happens
or you think something I miss or you
think just something interesting
interesting out there that um we should
cover definitely put in the chat because
I definitely check that all weekend I
love to go back and forth with people
um so again if you haven't already
please go ahead and follow me pretty
much everywhere over at police law news
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hope that everyone has a great and safe
weekend thanks