turn it off please who are you I'm the supervisor turn it off supervisor for what this is private property this is not private property yes it is private property it's not private property take your hand out of your pocket so I know I'm safe in your safe you cannot just check me you can't do that you can't go in my pocket in the quiet town of raw New Jersey an independent journalist named sha set out on a regular task he had a camera and knew his rights well his plan was simply to film and show how open a government building was to the public but what started as a normal day of filming soon turned into a big argument this brought up some big issues about public places personal freedoms and the role of authority sha went to the Motor Vehicle Commission a place owned by the state and started filming openly knowing he had the right to record in public areas he confidently began his work but the security staff at the commission not used to being filmed quickly became uncomfortable so over here is another Motor Vehicle Commission building this is the road test building good to see everybody here lining up for their road test there's somebody coming this way you can't record on you're recording you cannot record there's a sign right here yeah I saw the sign turn it off please who are you I'm the supervisor turn it off supervisor for what for the motor vehicle turn it off I'm going to get security and the police you can get whoever ever you want ma'am turn it off why are you getting so upset excuse me ma'am why are you getting so upset wow she was upset get be on the phone over here who are you I'm an officer officer and I work here officer Gonzalez yeah and you're not allowed to officer Gonzalez you know I could use a little less of that attitude you got there telling you to stop you're acting a little bit ra yeah respect what she's telling you okay do you are you going to take a test how does respect equate into what I'm doing cuz she's telling you to turn the phone off I'm all right so think about your logic here office in Gonzalez I could tell you respectfully just go about your way and go back to doing your job because this is my job this is private property your job is not to tell me what to do yeah is private property that's no your job is not to tell me what to do your job is to do whatever it is else you're supposed to do I'm not sure what your job in with it to tell to tell me what to do no no you have private property though this is not private property he's telling you not to turn the phone on what you was recording I'm recording everything that I can anything that I can are you taking a test or somebody else is taking a test well I don't have to answer those questions you guys are both you know coming at me with real it's real you guys are being disrespectful not me no you being disrespectful she's telling you she's a but I don't have to listen to her and I and respectfully I don't have to listen to you or her ma'am then officer Gonzalez and another officer came up to sha telling him he was in invading privacy by filming in what they thought was a private place Shan calmly explained that the building was owned by the state making it a public space where filming was allowed what are you recording then I mean honestly what are you recording you right now yeah you have to respect what she's telling I don't I I I don't have to respect what especially when she's telling me something that I don't have to do what did she tell you she told me to stop recording what what what is you doing here but that's like me tell you anything I I would never I would never dare I would never dare at this point I don't want to answer any questions at this point because of way Tak the test because of the way you both have came up to me and treated me I don't want to answer any questions at this time ma'am are you taking a test I told you I don't want to answer any questions test I just told you I don't want to answer any questions probably police if you don't want you can I mean ma'am I'm not scared of the police the police are here to protect and serve me so that's their job description she made good on her promise to call local law enforcement so let's see if they educate her on our constitutional rights or not hopefully that's the case how you doing sir what's going on hey how are you good good what's what's happened uh nothing just taking some pictures and video and officer gonel is and some other people seem to not like that a lot so not miss against the policy well this is private property sir this is not private property this is private property this is not private property yes it is private property it's not private property it is priv I did it I did I looked up the surveys before I came here and this is not private property no the state this is owned by the state of New Jersey which means that which is private property you're saying that the State motor vehicle is part of uh this private property no it's owned by the state which means that it's public property sir I think that's ridiculous that you would say that this is private property when it's owned by the private property it's who's it owned by by the state yes okay so you saying any any place in the state you could go there yeah go there any any any state any any any State Property that's not restricted yeah I can go there she saying it's against their policy for any despite his attempts to clear things up the security team became more uneasy they thought sha was causing trouble even though he was following the law the situation got worse when the security team decided to call that supervisor so man let me get this straight this doesn't make any sense because officer Gonzalez you call him because I'm in supposed the supervisor okay the supervisor called him because I'm in supposed violation of a policy you're not policy enforcement sir right you don't enforce policies you're a law enforcement yes I'm not breaking any laws well this is private property that's why that's this is not private property it's scary that you would think that this is private property sir really can I get your name and badge number please yes right here Withers yeah Withers yes thank you the situation became tenser when local police arrived instead of solving the problem the supervisor took the side of his team he accused Shawn of causing trouble and said that Sha's filming broke the facility's rules when they couldn't give any legal reasons they changed their focus they noticed Sha's hands were in his pockets and saying it was for safety they asked him to take them out it was a cold day and sha explained he had no weapons and was just trying to keep warm Hi how are you ma'am good how are you doing good can I get your name and badge number please sure I'm officer Malone can you take your hands out of your pockets for my safety oh my hand in my pocket it's not again not for your safety yes it is it's for my safety sir can you it's a little chilly out here I don't have any weapons on me sir can you okay can you can you check them cuz I don't know what you cannot just check me you can't do that you can't go in my pockets I don't consent to searches or seizures hey so take your hands out of your pocket you can't tell me to take my hands out my pocket what it's not against the law to keep my hand out my pocket it's cold out it's a little windy I know you have a weapon I don't I'm telling you I don't I'm not going to show you my hands man because it doesn't that's not against the law talk to you can't you can't just search people what's wrong with you officer Maloney just trying to go in my pockets that's an illegal search raway police insane can I speak to a supervisor please yes we got call one thank you appreciate it you got to get out sir if you don't mind back let him get out he saw the request to take his hands out of his pockets as an unnecessary use of power especially because he wasn't acting suspiciously or posing any threat despite being surrounded by several armed officers sure stood his ground refusing to follow orders that had no legal basis the officers just like the security team wrongly thought they could enforce rules that didn't match constitutional rights they had weapons like tasers and guns ready as if dealing with a big threat on the other hand Shawn only had his camera which he used to push for openness and responsibility the motor vehicle but sir you're you that's I don't know but all I know is that that is a problem that officer's actions is a problem you can't just go up into somebody's Pockets you can't do that she tried to you tried to if I didn't I backed away it doesn't matter you're you have a weapon so you have a weapon you have a taser and a gun do I you do okay right you all have weap you all have weapons here you all have weapons here except me I'm the only one without a weapon I'm the one with the camera and you guys are terrified I have a camera too also yeah should I be terrified of you because you're recording ridiculous am I supposed to be terrified of you yeah you are terrified of me because you tried to go in my pockets I didn't try and go in your pockets you tried to go in my pockets the officers insisting that sha take his hands out of his pockets showed the power imbalance in the situation sha saw this demand as unnecessary and more about trying to intimidate him than for safety he stayed calm and repeated that he had no weapons and was not a threat his only aim was to record public spaces for his journalism work hey s how are you Serge hey Serge if I can speak to you for a minute his hands out of his pocket well that you got to do for my safety inter if you want to speak to me take your hand out of your pocket so I know I'm safe and you're safe but sir you have four officers five officers here I don't it doesn't matter I've done this for a long time they're asking you to take but you can see that I don't have any weapons yes you can no I yes you can does that look like does that look show me your hand then no but it's it's it's a power thing I'm not going to entertain that power thing it's a power power thing I'm asking to see your hands the way you can see M and you can see what's in my pocket you can I'm not asking to see what's in your pocket I'm asking to see your hand so if I took my hand out my pocket and then I put my hand back in my pocket if you want to put it back in your pocket outside of your pocket to make sure there's nothing in there so do you want to take your hand out of your pocket or would you like me to Pat I I I don't consent to any such seizures I would I'm not searching your seizure I'm not taking anything from you I'm going to make sure I'm safe they're safe everybody's safe what is wrong wrong with you everybody is saying anything wrong with me you asked to talk to me yeah so now I'm here to talk and I'm here to complain excuse me let me speak please here I'm here to issue aist until I see your hand out of your pocket I'm here to issue complt exct take your hand out of your pocket let me speak to your supervis I am my supervisor I'm the road supervisor no you're there's there's a lieutenant above you he's on he's on the desk he's not on the road so if you want to go inside we can go speak you are you are giving off an horrible example for your Police Department because my hand hand out so I know everybody's safe I don't know me I don't know you but yeah you have a gun he has a gun he has a weapon do it my hand's not near my gun so all I'm asking you I don't have a weapon it doesn't matter so you should be able to call people you should be able to talk to people that have their hand in their pocket no that's not and once if you want me to Pat it and then I can be sure there's nothing in your pocket okay well but then I'm not going to speak to you till I know what's going on if you found this video insightful don't forget to hit the like button and share it with others subscribe to our channel for more videos like this as the argument went on the officers changed their reason for confronting sha they said his filming could disturb the piece or disrupt the work at the Motor Vehicle Commission sha responded by pointing out his first amendment rights which Protect free speech in the Press he made it clear that he was legally allowed to be there filming and that their demands for him to leave or show his hands were not justified so what's the deal with is he here for any testing we don't know okay he walking around recording I been asking that he okay can I get your name and badge number please sure it's Sergeant Deon my name is D y138 Sergeant down I'm my name is Sean I'm an independent journalist I'm working on a story here at the Motor Vehicle Commission for what do you have their per like do you have their permission to be here did you their supervisor I don't need their permission to be here this is public property it's not public property in that sense it is public property it's public property if you're here to conduct business if not they can tell people they don't want to service them or they on no they can't do that yes they can they can't do that you're wrong I've spoken to the the motor vehicle commiss we're going to go speak to their supervisor over they're on way we'll find out if they don't want you on the property you can go film from off their property this is public property it's not public property public property it's public so everybody can come here DMV government property is public property the way they don't want you government property is public making them uncomfortable and they don't want you here so you can kick me out of your police station can I if I have to or if there's a problem if I'm recording recording what if I'm recording inside okay then so I can sit here and record this that but that's my department that's your department it's the people's Department if they are saying they don't want you on the property that's going to be their decision to sign complaints against you and do that that's fine I mean that's where we'll take it since you don't want to and you'll be violating my rights and then I'm going to hold you accountable I promise you that I will hold the Motor Vehicle Commission accountable hold whoever you want the officers suggested that if sha wasn't there for official business they could ask him to leave sha disagreed explaining that since the facility was public property he had every right to stay and film he warned the officers that if they forced him to leave they would be violating his constitutional rights and he would hold them responsible for any such actions why are your officers so scared why do they no but why why do your officers come up to me and say get your hand out of your pocket get your hand and then try and go into my pocket she attempted to go inside of my pocket but she I had to back away from her but nobody went in your pocket away from you sir cuz that was sir sir you should listen you should really get another job if you're going to be so scared we're not if you're going to be so scared you you should get if you should get if you're going to be so scared you should get another job man maybe work at a bank or something where's the where's guys where's this supervisor that runs this so we can decide whether they want him here or not yeah whether you're going to get a lawsuit or not that's that's that's that's cuz you don't care cuz you're not going to pay it it's not about that if they're telling you how long have you been how long have you been a law enforcement offic that you're scared long I'm not scared of anything you're scared of my hands in my pocket I am scared because people have things in their pocket sometimes that are dous ridiculous ridiculous and then the most people that don't they say sure check my pocket and we move on in all the years you've ever been a law enforcement have you ever seen have you ever seen someone commit a crime and while they're filming yes oh my God ridiculous you're lying people have phones they film everything you're asking me a question I have seen film things and what they're doing is a crime and they get charged later or charged during it and sometimes it's used for evidence I don't know what to tell oh yes I've seen those too they're they're called Law Enforcement Officers body cameras that's what they're called you're asking you're right Law Enforcement Officers body cameras is the one that films the officers asked Shawn for his ID and questioned why he was filming suggesting that he was causing a disturbance knowing his rights Shawn chose not to show his ID he calmly explained that he hadn't done anything wrong and didn't have to give his ID because of that sir you have the ID on you I didn't commit a crime so I won't be handing that over today okay what what is your name sir my I told the sergeant my first name Sean f you tell me your last name cuz I gave you my last name for my oh no no no I just don't give out any private information unless I've been suspected of committing a crime I actually he said you committed a crime he said to you is if they that they don't want you on the property any longer or you're causing a disturbance to the business and what they're doing you're going to have to go that's what we said we never said you were committing a crime is this your car hun all right we'll move so you can get your car well you asked for ID so I just want to make sure if I was committing a crime cuz I don't hand over ID unless I'm committing a crime so you're going to get run over by a car I'm not scared like you ma'am oh okay all right like to bully people no no no ma' you came up to me and told me to take my hand out of my pocket that's you bullying me I think you're bullying all of us no you came up to me and told me to take my hand out of my pocket that part will be no the officer said that Sha's presence was making people uncomfortable sha disagreed saying his actions were completely legal and focused on promoting openness he explained that citizen journalism is important for keeping government officials responsible and protecting people's rights his camera he said wasn't just for recording it was a tool to support democracy I don't know what you're doing no they're not no one's scared no one's scared of my actions no one is no one's scared of my actions you're here to protect and serve the public correct yes I'm serving and protecting them from you from me from a camera afraid of you ma'am you're afraid of me are you afraid of me ma'am was afraid of you you're afraid of me oh wow I didn't come here on my own Merit I came here because we were called here is scared okay that's fair enough of you you no one's scared of me man you came here for a call right I'm here exercising a constitutionally protected activity that's your job to uphold that that's your job to uphold that I'm not harassing you I think your logic is floyed you came up to me and said get your hand out of your pocket the video will speak for itself okay the will speak for itself you came up to me and said get your hand out of your pocket I didn't say ma'am take that gun off your holster did I okay sir for my safety take that gun off your holster immediately right I didn't say that cuz that would be what escalating and we need to deescalate the situation not escalate it gotta man with his hand in his pockets I'm scared ma'am take your hand out your pockets please take your hands out your pockets it's a safety concern for me see how ridiculous it sounds okay sir gotcha the sergeant and speaking with the supervisor of the Motor Vehicle Commission hopefully they don't make a big mistake here the standoff went on as the officers kept pushing sha to follow their demands Shawn didn't back down and used the moment to explain why it's important for officers to respect citizens rights he mentioned that similar situations had happened before and in those cases law enforcement eventually admitted that public recording is completely legal during the confrontation sha stayed calm and focused on the bigger picture he explained that his filming wasn't about causing trouble but was a way to be an active and responsible citizen officer what's so wrong with someone taking pictures and video in public what's wrong about that what's what's scary about it apparently I guess you went inside the building you recording people oh yeah I've done it before I've done it before in the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission and law enforcement came out and they got educated and everybody we learned that this is a constitutionally protected activity and we went about our day and it wasn't a big deal there's nothing wrong with taking pictures in public it's called holding government government accountable exercising a First Amendment right be a group no be a group I don't have a group I'm by myself I'm not part of a group no but you say you're a journalist I what I'm independent you're going to publish this under what independent independent I mean I'm word for myself correct sir yeah there's there's various sources where I publish Sean I don't know about your 10 followers or whatever you have on your line but don't you you don't have any business in my conversation you're Tyrant sir and I like I said if you have a conversation you would like to have tens and tens of followers My tens and tens of followers very a professional Sergeant I'll be issuing a formal complaint against you and your officer and officer Maloney I will be and the people will hold you accountable I promise you that the tens and tens of followers and subscribers it's a pleasure to pleasure I love you just got to be less scared not not everybody wants to hurt you officer according to the sergeant an alert take care Sergeant you'll be here from me soon we're definitely filing a formal complaint against this sergeant and this officer here they don't know the difference between public and private property they don't know about our constitutional rights the encounter highlighted important issues about security privacy and freedom in the end Sha's actions showed how important constitutional rights are his calm and knowledgeable Behavior set an example for others showing how people can stand up for their rights while promoting accountability and openness that wraps up today's powerful encounter at the Motor Vehicle Commission we've seen how a simple camera can bring to light the importance of understanding our rights and the boundaries of law enforcement drop a comment below to share your thoughts or experiences about public recording rights or any encounters with authority you've had we'd love to hear from you thanks for watching stay informed and stay safe