e e
hey everybody Welcome in this is Daniel
here with Copwatch TV we're going to be
doing our live show today where
basically I'm going to break down some
of the most important cases in policing
now there have been a couple pretty
controversial cases that I'm going to
get into and you know I don't want to
exaggerate but there was a case that
happened in the last couple days and
I've actually gotten more hate more
engagement just more overall interest
even even though most of the people are
disagreeing with me about an officer
involved shooting that happened a couple
days ago so you know I'm I'm going to
lead with that case here in a minute and
I did advertise this on some of my other
social media platforms so it's very
possible that we might get some other
people in in for those who are new to
the show one of the things that I'd like
to do is I'd like to have engagement so
while I'm going through some of these
cases especially this first one I'll
talk about here in a few minutes that if
you disagree with what I'm saying
definitely go ahead and put in the chat
because having a discussion a dialogue a
debate about really important police
issues I think that's important to do
and so for those of you who don't know
we usually do the show on well we always
do this show on Fridays and we usually
do it here around lunchtime and you know
usually I'm pretty hungry and you know
we usually he as a team either get lunch
right before or afterwards and you know
speaking of digestive issues um you this
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some of the warning signs include weight
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CW and click on the link in the
description below all right so this
first case that we're going to talk
about is and again if you haven't
already please go ahead and subscribe to
the channel like the like the show again
my name is Daniel you can find me pretty
much everywhere over at police law news
so all right listen so this first case
that we're going to be we're going to
talk about and again I've gotten more
hate from from this case than I
literally have with any other any other
police case that I've covered in a
really really long time so um the the
case that we're going to talk about is
the Roger Fortson case and this actually
uh happened in um uh in Okaloosa Florida
and so I'm just going to get the
elephant out of the room right away
Okaloosa Florida that is that is uh the
same law enforcement agency that had the
attacking acorns case so it's important
to know that it's the same law
enforcement agency and the reason why
I'm saying that is because you know
almost you know there pretty much what
we're pretty sure of is that there's
going to be all kinds of comments about
that so it's it's important just to get
it out however as far as we know this is
not the same officer you know it's a
large law enforcement agency so listen
here's how this came about so about 3
days ago um I saw that Ben Crump went on
National media and he started talking
about a case that I wasn't familiar with
it's a involving an individual named
Roger Fortson it happened in Okaloosa
Florida and Mr Fortson was a 23-year-old
Airman um so he was in the Air Force and
I hadn't heard about this case but Ben
Crump did a couple National media
interviews talking about this case and
you know obviously anytime Ben Crump
says something you know I'm kind of
looking at the case like well is this
true or not and here's why so Ben Crump
didn't really give a whole lot of
information about this case um it is a
fatal officer involved shooting but he
did make three very specific claims
about this case and and no surprise that
all three of the claims that he made
made the involved police officer just
look absolutely terrible so let me go
through what Ben Crump said so Ben Crump
said that uh police went to the wrong
apartment he said that police did not
announce their presence and also that
police forced entry into the apartment
before the officer involved shooting so
that's really all that I knew and and
some of the other information that he
put out there was that you know it was a
it was a domestic dispute call but he
claimed that the individual Mr Forton
was alone in the apartment but you know
right before the police came that he was
on FaceTime with a female from from out
of state and then again the three claims
that he made were that the police went
to the wrong apartment they did not
announce their presence and they forced
entry into the residence well listen I
saw that and the one of the first things
is I did after I saw that is I went on I
went on to my uh Tik Tok and I made uh
and I put up a story and I basically
said hey these are the three things that
Ben Crump is claiming but because of his
disgusting history when it comes to
lying about these kinds of cases that we
really should not believe Ben Crump
without evidence after after I put up
that story it got you know tens of
thousands of views and I got so many
messages essentially telling me that I'm
wrong and that I'm a racist and again
all I was doing was saying that hey Ben
Crump has this history of not telling
the truth about these cases so don't
believe him without evidence it was that
very next day that the body camera video
came out and and you know I wasn't
shocked but you know a lot of people
should have been is that the body camera
footage that came out actually showed
that Ben Crump was wrong or he lied
about all three things that I predicted
that he was wrong about so that's kind
of the preamble to this case again I'm
really curious about people people's
thoughts as I go through it so now
that's kind of how all this started now
I'm going to walk you through the case
of what happened and then I'm going to
give my opinion at the end so we did
watch we did watch the the body camera
footage most of it is out right now and
here's what happened so this came in at
an apartment complex and it was a
domestic violence call a domestic
dispute essentially this was the manager
at the apartment complex who called for
police officers and said hey you know
here in apartment 1401 there's a
domestic dispute between a male and a
female so a put a deputy with the
Okaloosa County Sheriff's Office um
couple deputies head to the scene and at
first it's just one Deputy so he
actually starts the investigation before
his backup gets there and when police
officers go to domestic dispute cases I
think it's important to note that a lot
of the time you know if if someone calls
in and says hey the domestic dispute
happened at apartment 140 one a lot of
the times police officers well they just
go right over to the apartment they just
go right over to 1401 they knock on the
door and they try to investigate and
stuff like that but that is not what
this police officer did this Deputy he
went above and beyond and this is really
evidence of this Deputy trying to do a
thorough investigation here's what he
did to really go above and beyond to
make sure that he was thorough and had
all of the information before he made
contact with the individuals who were
you know the sub the the the subjects of
the call he went to the office and he
spoke with someone at the office because
the apartment office is are the
individuals who called and the first one
the first person he talked to was a male
and he basically said you know hey like
you know I'm I'm I'm here for those you
guys called I just kind of wanted a
little more information and the first
gentleman he talks to said you know what
I'm not the one who called I don't
really know but let me get a hold of the
of the manager who actually called the
deputy says okay and the deputy says
yeah I'm going to go ahead and hang out
so the deputy hangs out for a few
minutes the guy makes the call the guy
makes the call the the woman who's the
apartment manager comes down and and she
basically tells the deputy what happened
and she tells him the story and she's
leading him over to the apartment you
know that she actually called about and
basically what she tells the deputy she
says you know that there are domestic
disputes that happen here pretty often
but today it sounded worse than any
other day and then as they continue to
walk she tells the deputy you know two
weeks ago I was walking past the
apartment and I heard heard a lot of
yelling I heard a male call a woman a
[ __ ] and I heard what sounded like a
slap but we didn't call the police but
you there we we have heard you know a
history of domestic violence or what
seems like domestic violence coming from
this apartment so that's what the police
officers thinking the police officer
thinking you know again Not only was
there a call um of a possible domestic
dispute which happens all the time but
the again the deputy went above and
beyond and actually went down to talk to
the person who called and made sure they
had physical contact so he could hear
right from the person who called what
happened again I just want to point out
like the third time this is something a
lot of police officers don't do but it's
evidence of a deputy wanting to really
be thorough in an investigation um so
it's uh um yeah it's it's uh uh one of
those things and um uh you know I I also
I also should say that the individual
who um you know I don't think the deputy
knew this at the time but you know
forson um you know he was in the Air
Force at the time there is a military
code of conduct though again I don't
think the deputy had that information
you know that Mr forson was was in the
military so the the deputies W walk into
the apartment he gets up to the he takes
the elevator up he gets outside of
apartment number 1401 and and again like
I do every week if I see something that
the police officer that I think did
wrong I'm always going to ask questions
so one of the first questions that I
have about this is that you know as the
depuy's walking up to getting into the
elevator with the last thing he tells
the female apartment complex manager he
says hey if you see the other Deputy you
know guide them up to where I'm at so
essentially he's going to this domestic
violence call without any backup and you
know he's telling the the the female the
apartment manager to you know let the
other Deputy know where he is so so I
have some criticism there when it comes
to tactics so again that's not illegal
for the police officer to do but to me
the police officer should have waited
especially because this wasn't just like
you know a random domestic dispute call
like he got pretty specific information
from the apartment complex manager who
again you know should be a reasonable
person you know apartment complex
managers typically you know aren't in
the business of calling police for no
reason on their uh on the people who
live there just for fun because they're
bored um again that's typically not what
apartment complex managers do because
that would be pretty unprofessional so
typically when a professional person
who's at work at the time tells a police
officer something like this it would be
pretty strange for that person to be
lying now of course anyone could be
wrong anyone could make a factual
mistake but again a police officer
wouldn't assume that someone like this
is lying to their face so the officer
should have said okay you know this
could be actually a really call a real
like a real Call of some kind of
domestic dispute um also like they've
had cases before where you know she's at
least telling me that it sounded like
there was a slap and there were swearing
and yelling so the idea that you know a
police officer didn't the idea that the
police officer or the sheriff's deputy
didn't wait for a backup I don't get
that that doesn't make a whole lot of
sense but also you know it could it
could be a culture thing so the police
department that I just retired from you
know it was pretty much a thing where it
was we did ride in in one person Cars
one officer cars but also any time you
went to a domestic dispute no matter how
benign it might be you always went with
backup now if you got there and and the
offender left yeah the other officer can
leave but I mean going to an active
domestic dispute always go with a
partner again but that could just be a
culture thing it was actually in our
policy too that we had to do that so
that could be a part of it as well so
anyway so the so the the the deputy he
walks up to the apartment and this is
the middle of the day I should point
that out it's not like it's like 3:00 in
the morning where like you know most
people would be asleep or anything like
that it's the middle of the day and the
deputy knocks on the door pretty hard
like not like a a light knock Ian he
knocks on the door pretty hard and he
yells Sheriff's Department open the door
he does that twice he yells that twice
so again so the idea the assertion from
Ben Crump that the deputy didn't knock
or didn't identify himself is absolutely
incorrect that is just an outright lie
um and that refuted by the body camera
footage so the deputy knocks twice and
he the deputy knocks twice and he yells
you know Sheriff's Department open the
door two different times um you know
after just about a minute or so minute
and 20 seconds something like that the
door opens as the door opens Mr forson
is standing there and he has a gun in
his right hand at his side it's at that
point within a second or so uh the
deputy I think he yells like step back
or I don't know what he yells something
but then he shoots Mr Fortson I think he
shoots six different times um Mr forson
does uh does suffer fatal injuries um he
he does not survive this officer
involved shooting so those are the facts
of the case that's what happened and you
know there really are are two different
issues and I think it's important to not
confuse those issues one issue is the
lies that Ben Crump told before the body
camera footage was released I think
that's something that we have to talk
about and the second is was the officer
involved shooting was the officer
involved shooting objectively reasonable
because that's the standard right and
that's what I'm going to talk about so
it's my opinion that this officer
involved shooting is objectively
reasonable this is a legal officer
involved shooting and listen here's the
thing I know that a lot of people don't
agree with me because again I said I've
been covering this case the last couple
days I've gotten more messages and
disagreement from people than I have on
any case and I have some pretty
controversial shouldn't be controversial
because I'm just talking about what I
think is legal pretty controversial
cases I've talked about where I I think
that the police officer actions are
legal I'm getting more disagreement and
engagement over this case than any other
but I'm also going to say in case you're
new here if your criticism of my opinion
is saying that I am a uh bootlicker or
acab that's fine that's actually like
really lazy lazy commentary um you know
if you don't know anything about the law
or policing or if you failed a police
test you know in 2007 and you're just
mad that you couldn't be part of the
team those are the types of comments
that people like that leave um it's not
honest criticism um I I get that you
think it's funny it's not honest
criticism and that's fine there's no
rule saying that you have to be honest
but again if you want to have a
legitimate debate you know explain hey
this is what the police officer did this
is what the police officer did this is
why I think it's wrong and then you
should point to either law policy or
training and if you can't point to law
policy or training on why you think the
police officer did something wrong then
you should really look at your own
opinion and you should say okay well I'm
saying the police officer did something
wrong but what do I have to back that up
because everything I'm going to say I'm
going to back up so we have John Brown
saying that he wasn't a threat great you
know what I think that's uh I think
that's something that we should honestly
talk about that he wasn't a threat okay
so you sitting here in in in your home
on your couch watching body camera
footage you know that Mr Fortson isn't a
career criminal you know that he's a
23-year-old Noble honorable guy with no
criminal history who is dedicating his
life to being in the Air Force you know
that and that's a that's a luxury to
have that information me sitting here in
this awesome Studio I have that
information too so I can look down with
2020 hindsight and say yeah well Mr
forson with everything I know now Mr
forson probably wasn't going to shoot
the police officer because that would be
out of character because I've had
several days to look into this case so I
think you have to understand that just
because knowing right now I can look
down on this case with all of this
information and say that Mr Fortson
wasn't a threat that's different than
the analysis from the police officer who
had a split second and you have to at
least acknowledge that and when you're
looking at the law on what is legal for
a police officer to do 2020 hindsight
everything we know now that absolutely
isn't how the law works so basically
what Graham versus Connor says and
Graham versus Connor is is is what you
know the law of the land that governs
you know what is a reasonable police
officers you use of force what Graham
versus Connor said is the use of force
from a police officer has to be
objectively reasonable for what the
police officer knew at the time not what
we know now not 2020 hindsight so what
is in the mind of the of a reasonable
police officer at the time and that's
what I'm going to talk about then we can
talk about other things too but that's
what I'm going to that's what I'm going
to talk about curo 234 good question I'm
going to answer that here in a second so
you know so here here's what a
reasonable police officer would be
thinking I'm going to a domestic
violence call we have evidence that
there's prior domestic violence we also
know that domestic violence calls
statistically are some of the most
dangerous calls for police officers to
go to I knock on the door really loud
and I yell I don't just say it and
Whisper it I yell Sheriff's Office open
the door so as a reasonable police
officer I would think okay I'm going to
a domestic dispute and I'm going to a
domestic dispute domestic disputes are
dangerous I yelled sheriff's department
so anyone inside the residence would
know that it's police outside and still
this this person decides to answer the
door with a gun so a reasonable police
officer would see that as a threat um
they just would so I mean that's that's
that's the reality of it is that a
reasonable police officer would see that
as a threat for Mr Fortune to open the
door like that holding a gun on a
domestic violence call at his side a a
reason if you think a police officer say
like hey bro what's what's going on you
know we got a call um yeah would would
you mind not shooting me with that thing
so if that's what you think that you
know P what like training and policy is
for police officers again that doesn't
that doesn't make a whole lot of sense
it's obvious and it's reasonable that
any police officer would see this as a
deadly threat now here's some of the
push back I get okay some of the push
back that I get and I like the push back
because it's important to have
conversations some of the push back that
I get is like well um yeah the gun was
at his side it wasn't it wasn't poined
at the cop so he wasn't a threat yeah
that's an interesting point and I've
gotten that comment both on Tik Tok
Instagram and X probably about 400 times
so it's obviously that's something a lot
of people think about in this case so is
that well the gun was at his side so it
wasn't a threat okay well you know I'm
going to ask you how fast or how quickly
can someone have a gun at their side
moving it up and and placing round on
target how how fast can someone do that
I know the answer to that it's about a
quarter of a second so so basic
basically what you're saying is that you
know it's it's essentially a quarter of
a second difference so really it's
faster than any human can respond so
going from the gun down at your side to
shooting the cop is a quarter of a
second so you're saying one and so I
think what people are saying is that if
the gun was pointed at the cop definite
deadly threat the gun at the side
definitely not a deadly threat and the
space between those two opinions is a
quarter second so literally faster than
any human can respond so what a
reasonable person would say would say
well since you can't respond quickly
enough if someone decides to shoot you
that the level of threat that a police
officer should see from a gun pointed at
the side to a gun pointed at you you
know that's just about the same amount
of threat because again if someone
decides to shoot you and the gun is and
their gun is at the side or someone
decides to shoot you and they're
pointing G at you you literally can't do
anything about it either way because it
only takes about a quarter second to go
from one place to another so that's why
a police officer and that's that's
that's the reality of it so a police
officer is going to see this as a deadly
threat again again that's that's just
how it is um also a lot of people have
been asking asking let's see Kos has a
question uh Kos 234 hey answering the
door with a gun is crazy if you want a
protection leave the door closed oh
that's that's such a good thing so a so
here's what I'm also getting a lot of
comments on a lot of people are saying
well you know there are home invasions
where people pretend to be the police
and just because you knock and say
Sheriff's Office like how does he know
if it's the sheriff's office or not like
like any reasonable person would open
the door with a gun in their hand you
know what okay fine let's go ahead and
let's go ahead and uh uh John Brown says
I'm sorry I can't agree with your point
the officer should have waited for
backup um life could have been saved hey
John um yeah he should have waited for
backup up though again I'm not sure what
backup would have done because opening
the door like that he probably would
have had two cops shoot him instead of
one um so I'm not again I'm not sure
what it's again since the response from
the officer was almost immediate he
probably would have had two cops shoot
him instead of one I don't know what
that would have done but I was just
making the point that in general you
know two police officers should respond
to a domestic violence call I think
that's an honest thing it's an honest
criticism that I think we should have
but please put in the comments how do
you think it would have ended different
if there were two cops there um um I'm
really really curious about that um so
again A lot of people are saying well
you know there are these home invasions
where people pretend to be police
officers so yeah of course he's going to
have a gun when he opens the door so
again I I don't I don't see how
reasonable that is and there's a couple
reasons for that is because police
officers across the country literally
knock on Mill tens of millions of doors
every year almost no one answers the
door holding a gun so it's not like this
is a common thing but like let's address
your concerns about the home invasion so
you're right so that does happen um so
that does actually happen sometimes you
know again but again I think we should I
think we should put this into context of
you know what happens in reality not
like Alex Jones conspiracy level kind of
stuff but you know let's reality so
police officers knock on doors tens of
millions of times a year across the
country there's you know three or four
that we hear about of people pretending
to be cops um so yeah I mean tens of
millions to like three again if that's
going to be your
argument again it's that's a little
silly it doesn't make a whole lot of
sense but and it's the middle of a day
in an apartment complex where there
could be you know you know um if you let
me say this if you're going to do a home
invasion okay are you really going to do
it in the home invasion pretending to be
police are you really going to do it in
the middle of the day in an apartment
complex where there's literally hundreds
of other people around where you know
there's live cameras and there's again
it doesn't make any sense if you're a
house out in the middle of nowhere or in
a remote place and it's at night that's
when we see these happen again middle of
the day A nice apartment complex where
there's cameras everywhere that's where
you're going to do a home invasion
pretending to be police so again it
doesn't make a whole lot of sense the
conspiracy level here is a little silly
but let's say you're concerned and I'm
and and I'm totally fine yes of course
you Jeremy DT he's in he's in jail if
Jeremy DT it was out and you want to
make say hey we thought it was Jeremy
I'm totally good with that okay but it's
but let's say you are concerned about
whether or not it's a police officer
because I'm I was joking a little bit
about the Jeremy dwit thing but let's
say you are concerned that it's a police
officer because I'm not saying that
should never be a concern here's a
couple things that you could do you
could look through the people you could
look through the window now I'm going to
get to this issue in a second is that
the cop wasn't in front of the people I
get it okay so here's a couple things
that you could do you could you could
talk to the cop through the door or the
person door be like hey um listen I'm
not sure if you're a real police officer
or not can you go ahead and stand in
front of the window can you go ahead and
stand in front of the people you can at
least have a conversation with the
person if the person isn't willing to
engage or is silent yeah that's probably
an indication it's not a police officer
now what I can tell you is that most
police officers are going to go like hey
you know my name is Officer Smith I'm
I'm with this Police Department yeah
dude I'm I'm right here um uh you know
but again but let's say the police
officer refuses to do that for whatever
reason even though I'm telling you most
cops are going to have a rational
conversation with you because they just
want to talk to you figure out what's
going on because listen the last thing
police officers want to do is spend an
hour and a half investigating a domestic
violence call what they would rather do
is clear this up quick so they can go
get lunch lunch with their buddies I
promise you that's what police officers
would rather do than involving
themselves in your domestic situation
okay um so I think it's I think it's
important to note that that um also it's
and so the artwork from policing a lot
of times is turning you know a possible
criminal domestic into into a civil if
there's a way that police officers can
kind of fade it and make it civil and
not have to spend you know the next six
hours taking someone to jail um uh for a
nonsense misdemeanor domestic again like
that's what most police officers would
prefer to do they'd rather sit with
their buddies behind the 7-Eleven and
have lunch and not be you know doing a
bunch of paperwork on a misdemeanor
arrest that it's going to go nowhere
anyways I think we all know that's what
cops would rather do so again so like I
said so let's say you not sure if it's a
cop the cop refuses to stand in front of
the people which isn't reasonable but
probably cop won't stand in front of the
people here's what you could do next you
can call dispatch just call the
non-emergency number be like hey I live
here at this apartment complex I'm at
apartment 1401 listen there's some guy
who's knocking on the door and he's
saying he's police can you just let me
know if there's police outside I just
want to be safe the dispatcher will tell
you immediately if if they're there or
not let's say you don't want to do that
okay well what you can especially and
this doesn't work all the time but but
in this case it would have let's say
you're at an apartment complex where
there's you know literally obviously
there's an apartment complex staff who's
real [ __ ] nosy because they're
calling the police on you so what you
can do is you can go ahead and call down
to like hey uh this is uh this is uh uh
Roger from 1401 Hey listen there's
people knocking at my door they're
saying they're cops but listen I'm not
sure anyway you guys can verify for me
real quick so again there are other
options the idea of like Hey we're not
sure if it's a cop so even though they
said they're a cop um but I'm just going
to open open the door with a gun in my
hand and play this Russian roulette game
just for fun that's not a reasonable
response and it's not what most people
do again if this were If This Were an
epidemic of this happening a hundred
times a day across the country well I
can walk down that path with you maybe
we can have that conversation but and I
know that I've told the story before but
in my I while I while I was working as a
police officer before I retired I um you
know I was on patrol taking calls for
service for just over a decade I knocked
on thousands of doors there one time
that someone answered the door open the
door just like Roger did they had a gun
down at their side and I was not
involved with an officer involved
shooting maybe I'll tell that story
later I know I've done it before I was
not involved in an officer involved
shooting but that was the one time that
was the closest I ever got to being in
an officer involved shooting which was
exactly this case but again that just
shows how rare it is I knocked on
thousands of doors as a patrol officer
for over a decade and one time someone
answered the door holding a gun at their
side um so one of the other questions
I've been getting a whole bunch one of
the other questions um that I've been
getting a whole bunch is that well well
you know the cop wasn't in front of the
people the cop was hiding the cop was
being kind of suspicious because he was
standing off to the side now listen I
I'm I'm going to claim ignorance on this
because I thought that this was common
knowledge I'm not exaggerating when I've
said that on X and on and on Tik Tok
I've gotten literally hundreds of
comments of people saying the exact same
thing and that is why is the police
officer hiding from the people again I
thought that this was common knowledge
but police officers but again it's
obviously not common knowledge okay so
police officers when they knock on the
door they do not stand right in front of
the door police officers are trained to
stand to the side because it's not safe
to stand right in front of the door
that's called the Fatal funnel so police
officers absolutely do not do that it's
called U like a a bladed stance um but
in the police academy in 2005 you know
when it comes to patrol tactics I was
taught this in the police academy in 20
5 that when you knock on a door you
stand off to the side if there's two of
you you each stand off to one side and
listen in the last you know 19 20 years
the training has not changed this is
constant so tens of police officers
millions of times a year knock on doors
where they stand off to the side
afterwards that wasn't you know strange
that the police officers did that in
this case it's not suspicious it doesn't
mean they were doing anything wrong it's
literally how every police officer
across the country millions of times a
year knocks on Doors
and again I thought it was common
knowledge but you know I guess I guess
it's it's okay it's okay if it's not I'm
happy to provide that information um if
you're a police officer and you're in
your field officer training and you're
knocking on doors standing right in the
middle of the door you know that that's
the kind of person who actually isn't
going to make it um off of field
training okay so let's see if we have
any any any other any questions about
this uh let's see so some people are
saying it's murder okay um again I I got
that comment I got that comment got that
comment a whole lot of people saying
it's murder well again if you're saying
it's murder it it's almost difficult to
respond to you in a serious manner
because murder has a real definition
essentially there's intent behind murder
so if you're saying this is murder
basically what you're saying is the
police officer woke up that day after
working for 10 years you know he's on
the back half of his career he has
worked 10 years never been in any
trouble no controversial officer
involved shootings he's randomly sent to
this domestic violence call and thinks
to himself this is the one whoever opens
the door I'm just going to shoot him six
times no matter what the circumstances
are because in order for it to be murder
like that's the intent there's an intent
to murder so if you're saying it's
murder you're saying that the police
officer had the intent to kill the
person who open the door you know for
any reason possible so again if you say
it's murder you're not actually a
serious person um um on these issues all
right let's answer a couple questions
Michael Davis hey Michael um there was
no domestic at 1401 if the manager sent
the cop to the wrong apartment that's a
problem if the tenant was alone where
was the domestic oh Michael that's such
a good question thank you so much for
asking it yeah so it seems like and I I
could be wrong is that there wasn't a
domestic at that apartment um from what
we know is that the one true thing that
Ben Crump said is that Roger was
actually on FaceTime talking to a female
um again H how do you get a domestic
call from that I don't know it doesn't
make any sense however so so however the
police officer again has no reason to
think that the apartment manager is
lying or is wrong the police officer
still has to investigate and the way
that the police officer investigates it
knocks on the door says that they're
with the police department and just see
if anybody answers the door so I agree
with you 100% but I would say that you
know the fault has to be on whoever
provided the police with the wrong
information because again because again
Michael that's a a really good comment I
I appreciate it but the police officers
are not psychic right if an apartment
manager calls in and says hey there's a
history of V at 1401 and today the fight
was actually worse than any other time
we've seen what's a cop supposed to
think it's a cop's supposed think nah
lady you're you are [ __ ] bullshitting
me I'm just going to go home and and
have lunch with my buddies behind the
7-Eleven no the cop has to go knock on
the door so yeah um I I agree that there
probably wasn't any domestic happening
in there the cop didn't know that and
again police officers have to knock on
the door and see what's going on um they
didn't have they didn't have any any
option but to invest investigate once a
call like that is Place cjun Randy hey
how's it going Randy um let's see uh and
it's not safe to open the door either
sure um okay yeah let's let's go ahead
let's go ahead and talk about that Randy
um well for Roger it wasn't safe to open
the door holding a gun for sure but
again let's statistically literally tens
of millions of people open the door to
police officers every single year and
never in and almost never does this kind
of thing happen so again to say it's not
safe um it's actually safer
statistically to open the door for a
police officer than it is to drive your
kids to school there's way more of a
chance you're going to get hit and
killed by a driver on the road driving
your kids to school um than you are by
just opening the door for a police
officer but um yeah if you open the door
to a police officer and you're holding a
gun um again like I I'm not trying to
sound callous but this is a
predictable a thing that's going to
happen and my thing is I want this to
happen less that's the whole purpose of
this that's the goal of literally this
entire thing I want less violence
between police and civilians so let's
talk about what the police can do better
but listen I'm telling you if police
officers knock going announce at a
domestic violence call and you open the
door and you're holding a gun police
officers are going to perceive that as a
deadly threat now does that mean every
police officer is going to react the
same way no we see how this police
officer reacted I think it was
objectively reasonable when I was in
literally the exact same situation only
it was at night so it was dark literally
the EXA exact same situation that I was
in when I was a rookie I didn't shoot I
had my gun up I started to to I started
the slack from the trigger started to go
but he dropped the gun before I was able
to shoot which I'm I'm so thankful of
but again like every police officer
might act a little different it turns
out that you know this officer this
Deputy he gave Mr forson less than a
second the guy who was holding the gun
when I when when he opened the door with
me you know I gave him about three and a
half to 4 seconds and thankfully he
dropped the gun so you never never know
how a police officer is going to react
in a situation like that um looking back
on it I'm glad I reacted the way I did
now again had I been shot in the head
well then I wouldn't be able to sit here
and do do the show with you um I'm glad
I I gave because it was like a
15-year-old kid I'm glad I gave him um
uh uh some time okay C and Randy good
question so it's illegal to open the
door with a gun pointed down oh kjun
Randy such such such a great such a
great question um no I don't think it's
illegal um to open the door with a gun
pointed down but that doesn't mean that
it's not it's not that a police officer
won't see it as a deadly threat right so
so you can basically have things so it
can be both at the same time where it's
not illegal to open your door like that
but it's also situation given the
totality of the circumstances where a
police officer might see it as a deadly
threat let me give you another example
and see if this would change your mind
at all let's say a police officer makes
the traffic stop and and uh you know the
guy um instead of sitting in his car he
gets out of the car and as he getss out
of the car he's holding a gun in his
hand on a traffic stop well is it is it
is it illegal for him to step out um to
step out of the car holding a gun while
the cops on a traffic stop that's not
illegal like that in in and of itself
like that's not illegal but category of
not illegal but would a reasonable
police officer also see that as a deadly
threat yeah probably so again two things
can be true at the same time where it's
not illegal but a reasonable cop given
the circumstances is going to see it as
a deadly Threat all right so let's see
um tmbb TB MB 95 so how do we reconcile
having an armed Society with you guys
because the two don't seem to mesh like
at all well they do um they do um tbmb
that that's actually a really good
comment and question thank you so much
for asking it so they they actually do
um and again I'm just going to point to
Stats so you know um there are what 300
million guns um in the United States um
100 million people at least a 100
million people are gun owners and there
are less there are around a thousand
fatal officer involved shootings um in
the United States so um you know we have
a hundred million people who own guns we
have a thousand fatal officer involved
shooting so that means literally
99.99999% of the time um it is possible
to live with police officers working and
with the Second Amendment now if you're
going to make the argument that
99.99999% of the time isn't good enough
not much I can do for you but no no it
it it clearly is it clearly is um that
the two coexist all the time now again
like I said if there were if this was
happening a hundred times a day if a
hundred times a day across the country
people were opening the door holding
guns and there was a hundred fatal
incidents a day then I would say you
know what I think we have a problem but
even then statistically it would be like
99.99
9% of the time things are fine too but
again if this happened more often you
know maybe we need to have a
conversation about it but even though
this is unbelievably incredibly rare you
know look at how much time I'm taking to
talk about this case because I do think
it is the most important case in the
country and also I want to say that the
people who have questions and comments
especially the people who disagree with
me like the vast majority of the
comments and the questions about this
case that people are asking even if we
disagree they are 100% reasonable
questions that I think deserve to asked
deserve to be answered and that we
should have a debate about it I honestly
think that all right uh let's see um
Kevin Taylor says what about philandro
Castro yeah Kevin Taylor um you know
what I'm not crazy about the philandro
Castro case um and uh you know I think
that a police officer in that case
should be prosecuted and um as it turns
out that officer was was prosecuted so I
think that case probably went just just
like it should uh let's see cjun says
then why shouldn't see a deadly threat
when we see a cop with a gun kjun Ry
last question about this maybe all right
so then why shouldn't we see a deadly
threat uh when people see a cop with a
gun okay well again let's let's think
about that so so what you're saying is
that a police officer walking around
going to his car after leaving a gas
station and you're driving by and you go
deadly threat that's a deadly threat if
you can articulate that again let's go
ahead let's go ahead and do it um so
again to me that's a little dishonest
that's kind of like juvenile troll level
question as opposed to the other ones
which were really good questions um so
again again it's like police officers
have legal authority to arrest people
you may not like that but that's the law
police officers also can use force and
show a force in order to affect those
arrests that's part of the powers that
police officers have so um again it's
it's it's a different it's a different
scenario um also I would say if a person
is just walking around and they have uh
uh open carry and they have a gun
holstered that's not a deadly threat of
course not but again it's it's the
totality of the circumstance so when I'm
saying it's the totality of this exact
circumstance of why the shooting was
objectively reasonable and then your
response to that is oh so so anyone
holding a gun is a deadly threat again
you can say that but that's literally
not what I'm saying at all I'm saying
this is a very specific set of
circumstances it's a domestic violence
call domestic violence calls are
dangerous for police officers the police
officer knocked and announced the police
officer would believe reasonably that
anyone inside knew that they were a cop
so now the person the cop has to think
this person who's you know possibly the
suspect of a domestic violence knows
that I'm a cop and is still coming to
the door holding a gun that would be
what's going through the cop's mind and
again you and I have you know 40 minutes
two days a week to think about this the
cop had less than a second to think
about it so again it's different but
again you know saying oh so now anyone
carrying a gun is a deadly threat that's
really dishonest no no one is making
that argument and um there's clearly a
difference uh let's see okay um CJ Randy
cops want to be the only one with a gun
okay all right I keep saying last
question no cun Randy that's actually
not correct and I've got some evidence
for that and I'm going to do it in a
story and then I'm going to transition
to to something else okay um so so the I
so there's an idea that police officers
don't like the citizens to have guns um
it's actually ridiculous it's nonsense
um again it's conspiracy level stuff and
here's and and again I'm not just saying
that here's the evidence that I'm going
to site to so back last September um
again I'm I live in New Me Albuquerque
New Mexico I just retired from the
Albuquerque Police Department back in
September of last year our governor
Michelle Luhan Grisham under the health
order under likee the covid health code
she decided that she was going to put in
some gun restrictions essentially that
like you couldn't have guns in public in
beralo County um and the way that she
was going to try to go around the
constitution in order to do that is she
basically she was using the health code
she was basically saying that gun
violence in in New Mexico specifically
in beralo County the county that I live
in that that that essentially it was so
it's so violent that it's a it's a it's
a public health issue so she tried to
basically put this thing and basically
she was trying to make it illegal to you
know basically carry guns in public in
Bernal Leo County that's what she said
within a couple hours a couple hours and
you and again you can Google all this
stuff I'm not making any of it up um ABQ
raw is a great website if you check out
ABQ raw and type in and type in like New
Mexico gun grab like all the Articles
will come up okay so it basically what
happened is within a couple hours of
Michelle Luhan Grisham the governor of
New Mexico putting that out basically
saying to police officers hey you need
to enforce these gun laws within a
couple hours of that our police Union I
know people on here don't like police
unions our police Union the Albuquerque
Police Officers Association and I was a
board member of the Albuquerque police
officer Association at the time we put
out a public statement and we sent it to
all the media all the local media here
in Albuquerque and we basically said hey
this is unconstitutional and police
officers in Albuquerque do not want to
um infringe on people's rights this is
unconstitutional and we're asking you to
rethink it so that's what the
Albuquerque police officers did there's
a really great YouTube channel called 2A
cops basically cops who like the first
amendment I actually had me as a guest
on their show and I talked about this on
that show right when this was happening
again and I highlighted I highlighted
basically you know essentially what I
just said so there's a lot of people we
say that cops don't like people they
have guns well again here is like an
actual thing that I was a part of it
happened in my city the governor tried
to pass some unconstitutional you know
not laws just like these decrees under
the public health order the governor
tried to do that here in my County
immediately the Albuquerque Police
Officers Association didn't care what
the chief of police said didn't care
what the governor said didn't care with
any of the the legislator in the state
said and we put out this public
statement saying this is
unconstitutional and we are not going to
enforce these laws we didn't know what
the consequences could be but that's how
the and the Albuquerque police officer
Association that represents the police
doesn't represent anything else it
represents police officers and that was
the public statement that we put out so
again in reality that's what happened
when a governor tried to do something
unconstitutional when it comes to
grabbing guns that's how police officers
responded and I think it was a good
response I actually think it was a model
response for any other place where
Governors try to do this all right so
that was that that was the last question
that I was going to take on that case
again we're going to be following this
case my prediction is that the police
officer will not be charged because it's
incredibly obvious that this was a legal
and reasonable officer involved shooting
um thank you so much for all the
comments and the questions on this I
think that was a really good uh uh a
discussion I think I had just about all
the issues and again you can go ahead
and follow me over at police law news um
I'm going to be covering this case you
know pretty much um over the next couple
days and stuff like that so um I'm going
to talk about one other case um um
briefly because you know up until the
last couple days I thought that I was
going to be leading this uh what was
going to be leading was the Frank Tyson
case so Frank Tyson was a case that
happened in Kon Ohio um last week and I
honestly thought okay I'm going to get
ready I'm gonna come on the live show
and I'm GNA talk about the Frank Tyson
case and that's what we're going to go
to battle about and that's what we're
going to have a debate about but instead
of that you know this this uh uh Roger
Fortune case happened um but let me just
tell you about Frank Tyson really quick
so Frank Tyson cases happened a couple
weeks ago in kanton Ohio we have the
body camera footage essentially what
happened is Mr Tyson is a 53-year-old
guy he was driving around he was driving
around drunk he crashed into a light
pole after he crashed he fled the scene
he ran into a bar and police officers
were called police officers in Canton
Ohio Ohio were called and uh you know
they basically went to the scene they
saw that his car was crashed into a
light pole and the Witnesses were saying
yeah he actually ran over there right
into that bar a police officers going to
the bar as soon as they open the door
into the bar like the door isn't even
halfway open and the lady uh who works
there the employee at the bar she starts
yelling at the cops and she says she
points at the guy you know who was the
offender of the crash Frank Tyson she
points him and she goes can you get him
out of here so you know after the crash
he was causing a disturbance in the bar
so basically what the police officers do
is they try to get Frank Tyson to come
outside they don't immediately start
hitting him or punching him or tasing
him or using Force they don't even try
to really arrest him at that point all
they're trying to do is to get him
outside of the bar and they're trying to
do that for a couple reasons one he was
just involved in a crash where he hit a
light pole listen this guy could have
injuries so the police officers
obviously want to make sure that he's
okay also you know when you crash and
you run from the scene a lot of times
you're drunk right so police officers
want to conduct an investigation for
driving while intoxicated it's much
easier to do that you know if you're not
inside of a crowded bar and also this is
private property and you have an
employee saying can you get him out of
here so there were three reasons why
police officers were trying to escort
Frank Tyson out of the bar which again
was legal and reasonable able to do
because here's the thing if police
officers wanted to as soon as they made
contact with him they could have placed
him under arrest throw him in handcuffs
and just got him outside immediately
that's what they could have done instead
of doing that they again their first
thing was okay hey man can you just come
out and talk to me outside so Frank
Frank refused he refused he said he
wasn't going to go outside so obviously
police officers can't be like oh okay
well here we have a drunk driver who
crashed fled the scene caused a
disturbance in the bar the bar manager
doesn't want him there but he doesn't
want to leave so all right well you know
you don't want to leave the bar so I
guess we we'll just leave you here have
a good one guys obviously that's not
what police officers do so police
officers each grab one arm and they they
get physical and they try to grab him
and get him outside again they don't
take him to the ground they don't hit
him they don't strike him they don't
tase him they don't shoot him they each
grab an arm and they try to escort him
outside literally the lowest level of
force you could possibly use and Frank
is screaming and yelling screaming get
the sheriff get the sheriff you know
obviously he's not making any sense he
seems like he's drunk out of his mind
doesn't know what plan on I'm talking
about like George Floyd level
intoxicated I mean it's nuts how drunk
he is so he starts resisting arrest and
the police officers eventually they all
go to the ground now here's the thing
about fighting with someone in a crowded
bar it's not as easy as it seems and
here's why fighting with someone out in
the open okay you know there's really no
weapons that people can grab most of the
time you know if you're out in the open
there's no one else who's going to get
injured but if you're fighting with
someone in a crowded bar there's tables
there's chairs there's beer bottles
again there's all kinds of stuff that he
could grab um that makes it dangerous
not just for I mean who who knows Morgan
Wallen could be in that [ __ ] bar with
a chair you just don't know I mean so
there could be a lot of different things
that make this specifically dangerous
for police officers despite and also
more dangerous for Frank Tyson again
what if they're wrestling him and as
they get him down to the ground he hits
his head on a chair so the whole time
they're really trying to make again it's
not an easy thing to do to fight someone
in a crowded bar I you're going to have
to take my word for it it's not easy so
what the police officers do they
actually are able to get him into
custody now here's the thing they're
able to get him into custody without
shooting him without tasing him without
using a 40 mm without using a baton
without using pepper spray without
punching him striking him or kicking him
they are able to get a disruptive drunk
guy into custody in a crowded bar
without doing any of those things just
by wrestling him to the ground that's a
win that's really good there are a lot
of police officers and a lot of
different places who wouldn't be able to
do that but they do that that's
fantastic they actually get him into
handcuffs without causing any injury at
all and that's what we want that's how
we want to go now what the police
officers did and again like I do with
every case if cops make a mistake I'm
going to call it out here's their
mistake after Frank Tyson was in
handcuffs he they left him in a prone
position they left him essentially
laying on his stomach um he does say I
can't breathe um eventually he he um you
know they notice that he's not really
moving around at all they they check on
him after a couple minutes he's not
breathing they start Medics they do
seven minutes of CPR Frank Tyson ends up
dying that's the case um it's pretty
controversial you know someone died in
police custody it it should be
controversial um again I I can list all
the things that Frank Tyson did wrong he
drove drunk he crashed he caused a
disturbance in a bar he didn't listen to
Cops he fought with cops all of these
different things he did wrong and and
yes yes what the police off officers in
my opinion did wrong is they left him in
a prone position after he was in
handcuffs um I don't know if it was just
the adrenaline if it was just like oh my
God we got this guy into custody like
we're happy with what we did we got him
into custody without injuring him that's
great but they left him
prone I don't know how many times I have
to say it don't leave people prone once
someone is in handcuffs and it's safe
get them on their side Sit Them Up stand
them up do not leave people prone what
we know and I don't know why I I can't
say why um positional is fxia is the
word that's thrown around a lot I'm not
in the medical field but here's what I
do know that when someone is drunk high
or has medical problems putting those
individuals on their stomach handcuffed
for any period of time for whatever
reason there's a certain percentage of
the time that the person dies I can't
say why I just know that it happens
again with the Albuquerque Police
Department we received that training I
think in the early 2010s could have been
2012 could have been 2014 I I don't
remember the exact year what I do know
that it's been at least a decade um and
the Albuquerque Police Department we do
have good training but we're certainly
not on the the Forefront of of every
Advanced Training out there my point is
if we know this in Albuquerque you know
this in other places and we knew it a
decade ago I don't know how many more
videos like this we have to see after
you get some guys after you get someone
into handcuffs and it's safe roll them
on their side sit them up if someone
says I can't breathe even though 99% of
the time it's [ __ ] if someone says I
can't breathe just [ __ ] believe them
once they're in handcuffs again once
they're in handcuffs once it's safe set
them up roll them on their side the cops
messed up they should have now does that
mean the cops committed a crime no of
course not absolutely not 100% the
police officers should not be charged in
this case but yeah is it is it an error
is it going to be a civil case where
there's some kind of a judgment fine
obviously I don't think that the police
committed a crime in this case but was
there some type of error the police made
yeah I mean again I'm I'm not expecting
police officers to be 100% perfect but
by this time we know to sit people up to
roll them on their side to literally
especially when you have fat drunk
unhealthy horrible people who are acting
out of their
mind leaving them prone handcuffed is a
recipe for disaster some percentage of
the time guys please I'm I'm I'm I'm
begging you roll them over set them up I
I I I don't I don't know what else I can
say about this case all right let's see
if we have any questions about this case
um uh let's see um even if they are
combative oh Lindy thank you so much so
Lindy yeah so um I if they are combative
so let's let's talk about that so once
someone isn't so I said made safe um so
let let me let me specify that Lindy Lou
thank you so much for the question um so
if someone once someone is in handcuffs
and police officers have checked to make
sure they don't have any weapons um at
that point um yeah I I think no matter
what you should sit people up or get
them on their side now again if um
they're kicking you and stuff like that
throwing on leg shackles same thing um
the goal should always be to get someone
on their side or sitting up if someone
is combative again like I said they're
handcuffed um you have some some get
getting leg shackles um if someone is
combative and you have two cops there um
you know even if a third cop is getting
leg shackles you know there's no reason
why you roll them on their side one
officer kind of holds the dude's
shoulders the other officer kind of
holds the dude's hips or legs most of
the time two cops can handle that I
guess what I'm saying is that police
officers should at least be working
towards or you know look like they're
working towards the goal of sitting them
up putting them on their side in this
case and and I get I I get it I've been
in fights as a cop it sucks okay and
afterwards you have an adrenaline rush
and you're not always thinking straight
but you know after it was obvious that
Mr Tyson in this case was no longer
combative he was in handcuffs they let
him lay prone for a couple minutes
without checking on him um he wasn't
combative anymore so so again once it's
safe handcuffs and you make sure someone
searched then the next step in the
process is doing different things to
achieve the goal of getting them on
their side are sitting up again now
let's say someone's thrashing and
kicking and there's only two of you
there cool awesome I get you not be able
to do it in that situation but get on
the radio hey guys can we have another
officer swing by with leg shackles you
know at least do something to make it
seem like hey guys listen we are working
towards this goal of getting him sitting
up or on his side just leaving him prone
for a couple minutes without checking on
him and again I don't think the cops are
bad people I don't think they did this
intentionally I don't think they
committed a crime I think it was an
honest mistake after a really Dynamic
situation that's what I think hey Lindy
uh I get it because no one wants to die
however it's a scary situation um I
believe anyways yeah it is no it
absolutely is um it's absolutely a scary
situation um and and and again you know
a lot of police officers had this
training a while ago um I don't I
obviously I don't work in Ohio I've only
been to the state of Ohio one time in my
life when I was a kid we went to Cedar
Point so again I don't know anything
about Ohio police training I'm just
guessing that if we had it in New Mexico
a decade ago hopefully they've had it in
Ohio um so again I don't think these
cops are bad guys they obviously had no
intent to hurt Mr Tyson the body camera
video shows their intent was literally
to do everything to get him into custody
using the least amount of force humanly
possible um so my guess is they weren't
sitting around you know what we're going
to do we're actually going to take this
combative drunk guy into custody we're
going to go out of our way to use as
little Force as possible and then at the
end of it yeah we're going to make sure
he dies obviously that's not obviously
that's not what the cops intended to do
this was a mistake um it it just wasn't
on their radar for whatever reason
that's one of the reasons why I cover
cases like this not to just justify the
bad actions of police officers but to
you know try to get police officers to
think okay after someone's in handcuffs
like Hey guys you're not done there's
something else you need to do all right
listen that's going to be our live show
today I really appreciate all the
questions and and the comments I know
that um the case especially that first
case Robert Roger forson um that was a
controversial case and let me tell you
it's not the it's not the last time that
I'm going to be I'm going to be covering
this case it's an important case a lot
of people are talking about it and a lot
of people should be talking about it um
so again I hope that everyone has a
great weekend um please go ahead and
follow the channel um and make sure if
you haven't subscribed to Copwatch TV
please go ahead and subscribe um I just
want to say Happy Mother's Day out there
um to um everyone out there I hope
everybody has a uh everyone has a great
week weekend and um you know one of the
most important pieces of advice is uh
don't go to jail on Mother's Day get her
some flowers instead and uh all right
everybody have a great weekend stay safe
thank you